Anyone see this fight ?

[Spider]

Calzaghe beats hopkins ....... I didnt get to see the fight , but I dont think Hopkins or Calzaghe could beat Pavlik

[OABB]

Calzaghe beats hopkins ....... I didnt get to see the fight , but I dont think Hopkins or Calzaghe could beat Pavlik

yes, I saw it, and I am still pissed about the judging. i am a huge boxing fan and I am shocked that calzaghe won.

where I come from, good defense, controlling the pace of the fight, doing more damage, and ring generalship were keys to any fight.

nowadays it's like alot of other sports, it's all about the highlight reel. Calzaghe landed a bunch of "punches" but his "punches" were more like patty cake karate chops. He boxes like a kitten.

He even chopped hopkins in the nuts and did a wiggle dance as hopkins fell to the ground. more highlight reel tomfoolery.

it is best to note that hopkins cut calzaghe's nose and scored the only knock down of the fight.

the worst part of it all, is that kellermen and stewart seemed to contradict themselves throught he entire fight. saying things like calzaghe's punches have no power and he is just winging them out there, to calzaghes relelntless pressure is confusing hopkins.

It was strange all around.

Maybe everyone watching forgets that hopkins is an old school type of fighter and that they aren't pretty to watch unless you have a knowledge of the sport.

twenty years ago, hopkins would have got the decision...

hell five years ago it was an old saying in boxing that to beat the champ you have to knock him out.

now you just have to win a slap fight to win the belt.

I am done venting now...

[Spider]

yes, I saw it, and I am still pissed about the judging. i am a huge boxing fan and I am shocked that calzaghe won.

where I come from, good defense, controlling the pace of the fight, doing more damage, and ring generalship were keys to any fight.

nowadays it's like alot of other sports, it's all about the highlight reel. Calzaghe landed a bunch of "punches" but his "punches" were more like patty cake karate chops. He boxes like a kitten.

He even chopped hopkins in the nuts and did a wiggle dance as hopkins fell to the ground. more highlight reel tomfoolery.

it is best to note that hopkins cut calzaghe's nose and scored the only knock down of the fight.

the worst part of it all, is that kellermen and stewart seemed to contradict themselves throught he entire fight. saying things like calzaghe's punches have no power and he is just winging them out there, to calzaghes relelntless pressure is confusing hopkins.

It was strange all around.

Maybe everyone watching forgets that hopkins is an old school type of fighter and that they aren't pretty to watch unless you have a knowledge of the sport.

twenty years ago, hopkins would have got the decision...

hell five years ago it was an old saying in boxing that to beat the champ you have to knock him out.

now you just have to win a slap fight to win the belt.

I am done venting now...

Thanks , I didnt see the fight , but I agree with you on alot , except for I dont like a fighter backing up , and alot of holding , I dont know if B Hop did this or not , but it pisses me off when Oscar does it also .....I dont mind some clinching , you get the idea ;D

[theAPAOps5]

I believe this is a direct result of the explosion of Mixed Martial Arts.

[montrose]

Hopkins was absolutely robbed last night. Calzaghe was pitty-patting with Hopkins while Bernard was putting big shots on him all night.

On a side note, Calzaghe's mocking of Hopkins when he was down with a low blow was not cool. How badly Hopkins got hit in the jewels I don't know, but that wasn't cool at all. In fact, old Rocky himself was ringside stood up pissed, I was ready to watch him run into the ring and go Ivan Drago on his @$$.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Hopkins was absolutely robbed last night. Calzaghe was pitty-patting with Hopkins while Bernard was putting big shots on him all night.

On a side note, Calzaghe's mocking of Hopkins when he was down with a low blow was not cool. How badly Hopkins got hit in the jewels I don't know, but that wasn't cool at all. In fact, old Rocky himself was ringside stood up pissed, I was ready to watch him run into the ring and go Ivan Drago on his @$$.

Hopkins asked for the mocking when he declared before the fight that "I would never let a white boy beat me. Never".

[Triplelefthook]

robbed? holy crap. calzaghe won the fight as clear as day. the right man won - you have to throw punches to win a fight. the fight kind of sucked - as do most hopkins fights these days, mostly because he never throws punches.

[CBF1]

Boxing is a dying sport in todays sports venues. MMA has surpassed it as the fighting sport worldwide.

[Jason7730]

robbed? holy crap. calzaghe won the fight as clear as day. the right man won - you have to throw punches to win a fight. the fight kind of sucked - as do most hopkins fights these days, mostly because he never throws punches.

I agree with what he said. Hopkins backed up and held way too much for my liking.

[Inkana7]

Boxing is a dying sport in todays sports venues. MMA has surpassed it as the fighting sport worldwide.

I hate MMA.

[OABB]

robbed? holy crap. calzaghe won the fight as clear as day. the right man won - you have to throw punches to win a fight. the fight kind of sucked - as do most hopkins fights these days, mostly because he never throws punches.

It's funny. you score points for landing an open handed tag on the elbow, but get nothing for defense and brilliant slipping.

if boxing was judged correctly calzaghe would not only lost the split, but it would have been unanimous.

unfortunately, it wasn't.

I have never been more unimpressed with a fighter than I was with calzaghe. He did nothing special or even that good outside of karate chopping nutsacks.

When hopkins was robbed in the first taylor fight, he ended up landing more total shots at the end of the game...so in regards to hopkins, he has lost his belt twice, once landing more, and another landing less.

his style is unpleasant to the novice, I'll give you that, but how this guy isn't more pimped I will never know.

when foreman won the title after forty it was HUGE news, but when someone defends their title for ten straight years, moves up in weight to take the belt at 42, he should be a superstar.

if hopkins punched more he would be a fan favorite...

it's boxing, not tag.

[Spider]

Boxing is a dying sport in todays sports venues. MMA has surpassed it as the fighting sport worldwide.

Is it ? I dont think so , the problem with Boxing right now is the Russians and Europeans are literally dominating the Americans .........
we are dry in the Heavy division .....
We do have Kelly Pavlik , got alot of hope in him beating some Euro ass .......

[Triplelefthook]

It's funny. you score points for landing an open handed tag on the elbow, but get nothing for defense and brilliant slipping.

if boxing was judged correctly calzaghe would not only lost the split, but it would have been unanimous.

unfortunately, it wasn't.

I have never been more unimpressed with a fighter than I was with calzaghe. He did nothing special or even that good outside of karate chopping nutsacks.

When hopkins was robbed in the first taylor fight, he ended up landing more total shots at the end of the game...so in regards to hopkins, he has lost his belt twice, once landing more, and another landing less.

his style is unpleasant to the novice, I'll give you that, but how this guy isn't more pimped I will never know.

when foreman won the title after forty it was HUGE news, but when someone defends their title for ten straight years, moves up in weight to take the belt at 42, he should be a superstar.

if hopkins punched more he would be a fan favorite...

it's boxing, not tag.

i agree 100% about Hopkins and that he should be more "pimped." he is a technically brilliant fighter - but he lost to calzaghe and he deserved to lose and the fight was scored correctly. you can't expect to win a fight just because you great at defense - you have to throw punches to win a fight.

[DenverBrit]

robbed? holy crap. calzaghe won the fight as clear as day. the right man won - you have to throw punches to win a fight. the fight kind of sucked - as do most hopkins fights these days, mostly because he never throws punches.

There was no question Calzaghe won.
The only question should have been why wasn't it unanimous?
Hopkins makes his fights ugly by holding and not punching, but his Oscar performance after the second low blow was special. ;D

[TDmvp]

Calzaghe won get over it .... Hopkins is washed up and was hit more lastnight then ever in his time in boxing ..... sorry but Hopkins is overrated and past his prime ...

[mattleecrew]

With all the holding Hopkins did in this fight he could have played O-line for half the teams in the nfl. Whether all the shots landed were punishing or not in the end, Calzaghe landed more, scored more and was the winner. Just like a football game, you may run up and down the field and look great but if you don't put points on the board you loose. Hopkins looked like a sore looser in the end too. All he did was complain about the fight instead of accepting the outcome.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I thought Calzaghe won, but it was an unimpressive win.

[OABB]

well, it's true that you have to throw more to win but if I hit you in the face and knock you down, and you poke my cheeks with your fingers thirty times, who do you think people would say got their but kicked.

I can see how some see it differently than me, and that is o.k. boxing is tough to judge because it is so subjective.

In the end, to lose your belt you have to be beaten soundly, not just outscored. anyone that tells you this isn't true hasn't been watching boxing very long.

hopkins has always fought this way, you cannot say he is washed up either, that is just stupid. (I can't remember who said that in this thread...but it made me laugh).

and to make spider's original point, pavlick hopkins would be a great fight, but calzaghe, if he fights like he did last night, will be destroyed.

and another point to whichever shortsided poster said that hopkins b****ed at the end of the fight, how about calzaghe saying his clear knockdown was just a slip, and his gay crotch-to-ass dance after a nut shot.

It is o.k. to say you beleive calzaghe won, but don't start talking washed up, or that hopkins got his ass beat, because that is just silly.

[RunSilentRunDeep]

Good defense only stops your opponent from scoring, you don't wins rounds landing less than 10 punches per round. Calzaghe completely controlled the second half of the fight. Hopkins was gassing badly the last four rounds. He's a dirty fighter that was desperately trying to headbutt Joe all night. That and hyperextend Calzaghe's left elbow in even clinch.

Hopkins is a strange contrast. He's incredibly tough and works extremely hard, but still isn't man enough to admit he got beat.

[Triplelefthook]

i have been watching boxing for 20 years and i have to tell you that i have always disagreed with this notion that you have to beat the champion decisively to take his belt. if you lose you lose. if someone wins more rounds than you - you are the winner. the belt is up for grabs once the opening bell sounds

i agree tho that hopkins is not washed up at all - that is just the way he fights and has done for years now. i do happen to think calzaghe outworked him and won their match last night.

[Malcontent]

I was more impressed by Hopkins than Zaggy. I was a bit stunned at the decision, but boxing is moving in new directions...out with the old..yada yada.

[Spider]

and to make spider's original point, pavlick hopkins would be a great fight, but calzaghe, if he fights like he did last night, will be destroyed.



I dont think it would be that good of a fight , not in the late rounds any way .....B hop is the better fighter , better puncher , more skilled and polished then Pavlik , but I dont think he is no where as tough , B hop wont be stupid and punch himself out , but I dont think he has enough to over come Pavlik toughness ......... But I have been known to be wrong from time to time ;D

[Triplelefthook]

that is one thing you can count on that hopkins will not punch himself out

[Spider]

that is one thing you can count on that hopkins will not punch himself out

John Ruiz tried the B Hop style ,he didnt do it very well ......

[Triplelefthook]

John Ruiz tried the B Hop style ,he didnt do it very well ......

it is my opinion that john ruiz is a disgrace to the sport and probably the most awful "boxer" i have ever watched. that guy made me embarrassed to tell people i was a boxing fan.

[Spider]

it is my opinion that john ruiz is a disgrace to the sport and probably the most awful "boxer" i have ever watched. that guy made me embarrassed to tell people i was a boxing fan.

:rofl: yeah he sucked ass ....

[DenverBrit]

and another point to whichever shortsided poster said that hopkins b****ed at the end of the fight, how about calzaghe saying his clear knockdown was just a slip, and his gay crotch-to-ass dance after a nut shot.
.

Did you see the entire post fight interview? Calzaghe made the point he was being sarcastic about the 'slip' and went on to say that the straight right was a good one and floored him. I'm with you on the dance though.
However, Hopkins pushed Calzaghe's head down as he fired off the left and forced the shot low, not only was it NOT a hard shot, but Calzaghe seemed unaware that he had hit Hopkins low. Hopkins made the most of the opportunity, taking the full 5 minutes, at a time when he looked tired and Calzaghe had taken control.
Hopkins was a sore loser....as he has always been. Give Calzaghe credit, no one expected that fight to be a work of art, Hopkins fights have mostly always been ugly because of his style.

[Triplelefthook]

Did you see the entire post fight interview? Calzaghe made the point he was being sarcastic about the 'slip' and went on to say that the straight right was a good one and floored him. I'm with you on the dance though.
However, Hopkins pushed Calzaghe's head down as he fired off the left and forced the shot low, not only was it NOT a hard shot, but Calzaghe seemed unaware that he had hit Hopkins low. Hopkins made the most of the opportunity, taking the full 5 minutes, at a time when he looked tired and Calzaghe had taken control.
Hopkins was a sore loser....as he has always been. Give Calzaghe credit, no one expected that fight to be a work of art, Hopkins fights have mostly always been ugly because of his style.

americans don't to understand or pick up on that. hatton made the same joke after the mayweather fight and i had to explain it to people

[OABB]

americans don't to understand or pick up on that. hatton made the same joke after the mayweather fight and i had to explain it to people

I did see the whole thing, but I felt that he realized his error and tried to backtrack..

it's funny, even the post fight interview is subjective.

but just as we can't say whether or not bhop's nuts really got clipped, we can't say if joe was fully kidding or not.

but, back to the dance....If you hurt a guy, I mean totally dominate a guy, doing that dance is still ridiculous. unless the guy insults your wife prefight, I can't understand the point of this kind of dance, especially when it was after a low blow.

for all the b-hop hate, and references to him being dirty, I COULD NEVER imagine him doing that dance after a nut shot.


but oh well, calzaghe won and there is nothing I can do about it so why even get riled up.

[OABB]

I dont think it would be that good of a fight , not in the late rounds any way .....B hop is the better fighter , better puncher , more skilled and polished then Pavlik , but I dont think he is no where as tough , B hop wont be stupid and punch himself out , but I dont think he has enough to over come Pavlik toughness ......... But I have been known to be wrong from time to time ;D

the thing about b-hop is that he usually gets the other guy out of his fight for at least half of it anyway. So who knows how pavlik will fare? I would love to see that though.

I think pavlik has much more power than b-hop, but it would come down to whether or not he could set his feet and let is one-two fly...I saw b-hop consistantly move every time calzaghe set last night and you could see it frustrate him. all he could do was play patty-cake on his arms when he finally got in.

but, pavlik is my boy, and I would be torn in that fight.


now pavlik vs. calzaghe? sign me up for that one. I would be shocked if that went more than five rounds...

[DenverBrit]

for all the b-hop hate, and references to him being dirty, I COULD NEVER imagine him doing that dance after a nut shot.


But you could imagine him saying something racist like: 'I'd never let a white guy beat me'.....right?? ;)

[OABB]

But you could imagine him saying something racist like: 'I'd never let a white guy beat me'.....right?? ;)

I don't have to imagine it, he said it. I usually don't hold much against any fighter during pre-fight because most of them try and rile up the fans to draw in more money.

although, that was distasteful and really stupid.

I like b-hop as a boxer, but I'm not sure I would ever have beers with the guy.

[Eli_Cash]

Calzaghe landed more punches than anyone ever to fight Hopkins according to CompuBox statistics.

Hopkins made it a close fight by using his "old school" tactics.

Yet, without a decent volume of punches and any attempt to press the action the fight was Calazghe's to win.

If you want to win a prize fight you have to press the action at some point.

Counter punching is a great skill but it leaves you at the mercy of the aggressor.

If any round is close, it will go to the fighter who was more aggressive or initiated the action.

On Saturday, that was Joe Calzaghe.....

[OABB]

Calzaghe landed more punches than anyone ever to fight Hopkins according to CompuBox statistics.

Hopkins made it a close fight by using his "old school" tactics.

Yet, without a decent volume of punches and any attempt to press the action the fight was Calazghe's to win.

If you want to win a prize fight you have to press the action at some point.

Counter punching is a great skill but it leaves you at the mercy of the aggressor.

If any round is close, it will go to the fighter who was more aggressive or initiated the action.
On Saturday, that was Joe Calzaghe.....
good post. I just think hopkins, even with less landed shots, did more damage and had the more crisp powerful punches. Like I said before, calzaghe won, but I'm not happy about it.

I am always a defense first guy anyway. I love great defense in all sports because I think it is much harder to dominate on d. You are constantly at a disadvantage, and it takes real skill to shut down offense.

I find it particularly hard in the combat sports to dominate with defense.

Even, my man crush Pavlik, who has great power and accuracy behind his punches is a thing of beauty to watch how he moves his head and blocks punches.

if you can counter punch, clinch and move your head well, you need less punches to win a fight, just as if you hold a team to 3 points on sunday you don't need to score as much.

Perhaps I am of an old breed...

I saw the patriots lose a superbowl despite great aggression and offensive execution. If boxing was less subjective and points were rewarded for defense as well, I think hopkins would have won the decision handidly.

and it is this final point that makes me a football first fan. there is no opinions, only a final score. You can win with defense and special teams even if the opponent can score...

And finally, had calzaghe backed up his offense with at least a little hip movement and power I wouldn't be nearly as upset about the decision.
I just don't think combat sports should ever have a spaghetti armed winner.

Calzaghe is the phillip rivers of boxing.

[DenverBrit]

Calzaghe is the phillip rivers of boxing.

You're comparing an unbeaten, HOF boxer with a QB who has won.....nothing?

Does it hurt that much that a Welshman, fought Hopkins in Vegas, stepped up in weight to light heavy for the first time, was judged by 3 US judges, had a US referee and won the fight anyway?
Get over it and give Calzaghe credit......he beat your boy, in his backyard. Don't go all Hopkins on us.

[Florida_Bronco]

I hate MMA.

+1...that **** sucks.

[Jason7730]

You're comparing an unbeaten, HOF boxer with a QB who has won.....nothing?

Does it hurt that much that a Welshman, fought Hopkins in Vegas, stepped up in weight to light heavy for the first time, was judged by 3 US judges, had a US referee and won the fight anyway?
Get over it and give Calzaghe credit......he beat your boy, in his backyard. Don't go all Hopkins on us.

Really, I try and alway's go with the American fighters, and I know Hopkins is a Master of mental manipulation. however it did rub me the wrong way his "I will never let a white boy beat me" skit. He backed up and held for 90% of the fight, he did not deserve to win. Joe is the opposite of P. Rivers, he has shown he a true Champion.

[Jason7730]

+1...that **** sucks.

It's called "Having a REAL fight". Get used too it, it is here to stay. Learn about it before you say it sucks. IMHO.

[Florida_Bronco]

It's called "Having a REAL fight". Get used too it, it is here to stay. Learn about it before you say it sucks. IMHO.

I've learned about it, and I've watched it. It ain't like no "real fight" I've ever been in. I doubt it's here to stay either. Seems like another fad to me.

Oh...and it still sucks. THAT won't be changing.

[Jason7730]

I've learned about it, and I've watched it. It ain't like no "real fight" I've ever been in. I doubt it's here to stay either. Seems like another fad to me.

Oh...and it still sucks. THAT won't be changing.

Another fad that has been around since 1993, ( at least the UFC version, not too mention the first one that thought of mixing styles, Bruce Lee). At the highest levels of combat training, you will find evidence of MMA. Our finest troops and members of the the elite special forces of our world, all, utilize one form or another of Martial arts. Mixed Martial Arts simply means taking the best of what you would like to accomplish and formulating your own style, that suits your cause. Take for example the Israeli special forces use of what is called "Krav Magaw". It is used to dispatch an adversary as quickly as possible. I wonder what tactic you would use, in your "real" fights? Boxing, Wrestling, tobacco spitting? Most "real" fights start out standing and end up on the ground. How did yours go? Or did you just shoot 'em down with your johnny law self.:peace:

[Florida_Bronco]

Another fad that has been around since 1993, ( at least the UFC version, not too mention the first one that thought of mixing styles, Bruce Lee). At the highest levels of combat training, you will find evidence of MMA. Our finest troops and members of the the elite special forces of our world, all, utilize one form or another of Martial arts. Mixed Martial Arts simply means taking the best of what you would like to accomplish and formulating your own style, that suits your cause. Take for example the Israeli special forces use of what is called "Krav Magaw". It is used to dispatch an adversary as quickly as possible. I wonder what tactic you would use, in your "real" fights? Boxing, Wrestling, tobacco spitting? Most "real" fights start out standing and end up on the ground. How did yours go? Or did you just shoot 'em down with your johnny law self.:peace:

I'm very aware that some elements of this are taught to our special forces, but ask them how often they use them. Check out Rogue Warrior by Richard Marcinko and Inside Delta Force by Eric Haney. They both have some tidbits about how they place little value on hand to hand combat.

And I don't know about you, but everytime I've ever been in a fight I did everything in my power to stay OFF the ground. My personal belief is that I should have the fight finished within 2-3 punches, if not I've done something wrong.

[Jason7730]

I'm very aware that some elements of this are taught to our special forces, but ask them how often they use them. Check out Rogue Warrior by Richard Marcinko and Inside Delta Force by Eric Haney. They both have some tidbits about how they place little value on hand to hand combat.

And I don't know about you, but everytime I've ever been in a fight I did everything in my power to stay OFF the ground. My personal belief is that I should have the fight finished within 2-3 punches, if not I've done something wrong.

Hey we agree that you really should stay off the ground in a fight! :strong: Now, with the Delta force and other assault teams, of course they would have little need for hand to hand combat. My point is a person would be better off having a knowledge of, and an ability to implement, a variety of strategies when it comes to a no rules fight. I am not one of those "nut huggers" brazilian jiu jitsui fans by any means. So, don't get me wrong. There are MMA fighters like Chuck Liddel who love to take out people with a couple of punches, and if fighters can do that consistently, they can become very well off financially. The point is, if you do not have a weapon, there is a strong possibility of you being taken down to the ground, and a person who has no training on the ground will be in big trouble when facing a person who has trained to go to the ground. That is a fact, my fellow Bronco friend.:peace:

[DenverBroncosJM]

I was in town for this fight and ran into Calz later at Planet Hollywood. Now granted he is a boxer but damn he looked like he got by a truck. The girl he was with was fine as hell though

[kamakazi_kal]

I hate MMA.

you're in the minority. Boxing has just plain gotten boring.

[OABB]

you're in the minority. Boxing has just plain gotten boring.

MMA has the potential to be an all around more exciting sport to watch, but it has a long way to go.

The thing about boxing is all the guys at the top have been doing it their whole lives, whereas many of the mma guys have been doing it for 5-6 years and it shows.

The difference in competitive skill level is far less for mma.

also it is important to note, that MMA is a sport. and it is safe to say that MMA is also becoming it's own style. i see discussion about street fighting and police training here, but MMA is a sport, that's it.

It has a watered down mixture of alot of martial arts, but very few of these guys I would even consider martial artists. GSP is the closest thing in my opinion at the ufc.

For any newcomer fans to the sport, I highly suggest locating dvd's of the pride fighting championships over in Japan. You will see a noticeable difference there. anderson silva was mediocre at best in Japan and now he id dominating in america.

just as how american boxing is far superior to english or welsh(sorry denverbrit) mma in Japan is far superior to america. although that is beginning to change since ufc bought, and destroyed pride.

[kamakazi_kal]

MMA has the potential to be an all around more exciting sport to watch, but it has a long way to go.

The thing about boxing is all the guys at the top have been doing it their whole lives, whereas many of the mma guys have been doing it for 5-6 years and it shows.

The difference in competitive skill level is far less for mma.

also it is important to note, that MMA is a sport. and it is safe to say that MMA is also becoming it's own style. i see discussion about street fighting and police training here, but MMA is a sport, that's it.

It has a watered down mixture of alot of martial arts, but very few of these guys I would even consider martial artists. GSP is the closest thing in my opinion at the ufc.

For any newcomer fans to the sport, I highly suggest locating dvd's of the pride fighting championships over in Japan. You will see a noticeable difference there. anderson silva was mediocre at best in Japan and now he id dominating in america.

just as how american boxing is far superior to english or welsh(sorry denverbrit) mma in Japan is far superior to america. although that is beginning to change since ufc bought, and destroyed pride.

I still just don't think boxing offers many good fights. I feel dissapointed everytime I watch one of these "hype bouts"
It just seems that it's just a rehash of washups living on past glory. Retiring and unretiring all the time.
Now if boxing were to make it a winner take all event instead of the current system where someone like Hopkins gets paid no matter what, I think it would save the sport.

[Triplelefthook]

i will still maintain that a boxing match has the potential to be better than anything MMA can put out there. A great boxing match is better than any MMA fight i have ever seen. the Vasquez-Marquez trilogy is a great recent example... but even matches like Mayweather-Hatton and the Pac-Marquez rematch or the recent Joel Cassamayor fight - MMA fights can't touch those. not even close.

[OABB]

I agree with the last two posts. Boxing has an image problem, corruption and terrible overall marketing. but it has the elite athletic skill.

mma has no image problem, is a fast rising sport and has great marketing, and all over lower skill.

Both sports are great to watch, but ultimately disappointing.

I will take a great boxing match over almost anything however.

the sweet science is a beautiful thing to watch when it is good.

and to tie in these points with this thread, it is the overating of certain fighter's that hurt the sport more than anything. Calzaghe will do more damage to the sport because as people believe he is hof worthy, as someone already said in this thread, the overall appreciation of a true brilliant fighter will be lost.

I am putting all my boxing hopes into pavlik. He showed the world who taylor really was(also robbed hopkins twice) and I would love to see him fight calzaghe more than anything in the world. I view him as a good boxer, and the taylor's and calzaghe's of the world will learn why they call it the sweet science soon enough.

[Spider]

the thing about b-hop is that he usually gets the other guy out of his fight for at least half of it anyway. So who knows how pavlik will fare? I would love to see that though.

I think pavlik has much more power than b-hop I would love to see this fight .....


, but it would come down to whether or not he could set his feet and let is one-two fly...I saw b-hop consistantly move every time calzaghe set last night and you could see it frustrate him. all he could do was play patty-cake on his arms when he finally got in.

but, pavlik is my boy, and I would be torn in that fight. I do think Pavlik is alot more raw then a calzaghe , but there is no beating toughness ....


now pavlik vs. calzaghe? sign me up for that one. I would be shocked if that went more than five rounds...
;D I wouldnt buy it on Pay per view , Pavlik wins unless some fluke happens

[Spider]

I agree with the last two posts. Boxing has an image problem, corruption and terrible overall marketing. but it has the elite athletic skill.

mma has no image problem, is a fast rising sport and has great marketing, and all over lower skill.

Both sports are great to watch, but ultimately disappointing.

I will take a great boxing match over almost anything however.

the sweet science is a beautiful thing to watch when it is good.

and to tie in these points with this thread, it is the overating of certain fighter's that hurt the sport more than anything. Calzaghe will do more damage to the sport because as people believe he is hof worthy, as someone already said in this thread, the overall appreciation of a true brilliant fighter will be lost.

I am putting all my boxing hopes into pavlik. He showed the world who taylor really was(also robbed hopkins twice) and I would love to see him fight calzaghe more than anything in the world. I view him as a good boxer, and the taylor's and calzaghe's of the world will learn why they call it the sweet science soon enough.

excellent post

[Eli_Cash]

Exactly what would Calzaghe have to do to be HOF worthy?

Say what you want but he still has a goose egg in the loss column.

I appreciated the subtle changes he made in the fight that ended up getting him the victory.

I also appreciate Hopkins but his my way or the highway attitude has cost him more than one fight.

If he would have put more energy into punching Calzaghe instead of playing up the low blows and other assorted tricks he probably would have won the fight.


As for Pavlik, he's just plain awesome.


Andre Berto is another one to watch....

[sakuraba]

Well, I came into this thread a little late, but here are some thoughts.
Hopkins won that fight.

Volume punching is not more import than effective punching. It is the effectiveness of a punch that matters. One can pitty pat, and shoe shine all they want, but it is effective punches that are to be scored, and to weigh more heavily in the scoring. Hopkins had the more effective punching.

Ring generalship counts for points. This goes hands down to Hopkins. Even in the late rounds Hopkins was controlling. Turn the commentary down and watch. You will see this was the case. And for all those who said he held, it takes two to hold in the clinch. That is a truism from boxing. If you don't believe or understand that, then you have no business discussing that particular topic. Go ask Teddy Atlas, he'll tell you .

As for fighting while backing up. The second half of Ali's career was fighting while backing up. It is the hight of skill to fight this way, which is why so few do it.

Hopkins won the fight .

People don't understand boxing these days. They have been conditioned, by hightlight reels, and movies, and youtube brawls. Slipping, angles, footwork , all the subtle things that make it a science are lost on the average viewer. They just want to see someone swinging. Just because you're spinning your wheels, doesn't mean you're going anywhere.

[OABB]

Well, I came into this thread a little late, but here are some thoughts.
Hopkins won that fight.

Volume punching is not more import than effective punching. It is the effectiveness of a punch that matters. One can pitty pat, and shoe shine all they want, but it is effective punches that are to be scored, and to weigh more heavily in the scoring. Hopkins had the more effective punching.

Ring generalship counts for points. This goes hands down to Hopkins. Even in the late rounds Hopkins was controlling. Turn the commentary down and watch. You will see this was the case. And for all those who said he held, it takes two to hold in the clinch. That is a truism from boxing. If you don't believe or understand that, then you have no business discussing that particular topic. Go ask Teddy Atlas, he'll tell you .

As for fighting while backing up. The second half of Ali's career was fighting while backing up. It is the hight of skill to fight this way, which is why so few do it.

Hopkins won the fight .

People don't understand boxing these days. They have been conditioned, by hightlight reels, and movies, and youtube brawls. Slipping, angles, footwork , all the subtle things that make it a science are lost on the average viewer. They just want to see someone swinging. Just because you're spinning your wheels, doesn't mean you're going anywhere.

but, but, but......Calzaghe scored more on the compubox! what is this "angle's, ring generalship, effective punching" you speak of?

Calzaghe touched him more, just get over it.

[sakuraba]

Fortunately Orangeandblueblooded I read your earlier posts so I detect your sarcasm. you showed that you know a fair amount about the sweet science, well said.
As we both know flinging your hands back and forth little girl style ala Calzaghe is not what should win fights.

Also many of those punches are questionable. It is illegal to hit with a hammer fist - as he did on the low blow, turning the full force of his hips into it. His winging is often done landing hammer fists, that's illegal.

Also just because someone comes forward doesn't mean their winning. If you think it does, just ask the Japanese how well that worked during WW2. They sure charged forward a lot. And the Americans retreated. Hmmm, how come the Japanese lost? Oh, yeah, the Americans were more effective, and landed the more effective shots.

[Spider]

Fortunately Orangeandblueblooded I read your earlier posts so I detect your sarcasm. you showed that you know a fair amount about the sweet science, well said.
As we both know flinging your hands back and forth little girl style ala Calzaghe is not what should win fights. 2 people can watch the same fight and have different opinions on who won who didnt , doesnt make either one an idiot or clueless , just judge on different things ...... I hate a mother ****er that clinches , it is a fight after all not a holding contest ...... B hop holds alot , thats his style ........

Also many of those punches are questionable. It is illegal to hit with a hammer fist - as he did on the low blow, turning the full force of his hips into it. His winging is often done landing hammer fists, that's illegal. I didnt see the fight ,so I cant comment

Also just because someone comes forward doesn't mean their winning. If you think it does, just ask the Japanese how well that worked during WW2. They sure charged forward a lot. And the Americans retreated. Hmmm, how come the Japanese lost? Oh, yeah, the Americans were more effective, and landed the more effective shots.

we won cause we drop 2 big ones on Japan , if we hadnt millions of more lives would have been lost

[OABB]

Fortunately Orangeandblueblooded I read your earlier posts so I detect your sarcasm. you showed that you know a fair amount about the sweet science, well said.
As we both know flinging your hands back and forth little girl style ala Calzaghe is not what should win fights.

Also many of those punches are questionable. It is illegal to hit with a hammer fist - as he did on the low blow, turning the full force of his hips into it. His winging is often done landing hammer fists, that's illegal.

Also just because someone comes forward doesn't mean their winning. If you think it does, just ask the Japanese how well that worked during WW2. They sure charged forward a lot. And the Americans retreated. Hmmm, how come the Japanese lost? Oh, yeah, the Americans were more effective, and landed the more effective shots.



the zulu army was much more aggressive at roarke's drift.

I know what you are thinking, the british .45 caliber bullets that tore them in half through the night were "more effective", but you are forgetting that the zulu army kept pushing the action, and all the british did was hold and fire one shot at a time.

in order to win, you have to score more, and the zulu did, end of discussion.

[sakuraba]

the zulu army was much more aggressive at roarke's drift.

I know what you are thinking, the british .45 caliber bullets that tore them in half through the night were "more effective", but you are forgetting that the zulu army kept pushing the action, and all the british did was hold and fire one shot at a time.

in order to win, you have to score more, and the zulu did, end of discussion.

But the Zulus were holding on to the British guns when ever they got close. I hate those kind of fighters. Pussys should have just slugged it out.

[OABB]

2 people can watch the same fight and have different opinions on who won who didnt , doesnt make either one an idiot or clueless , just judge on different things ...... I hate a mother ****er that clinches , it is a fight after all not a holding contest ...... B hop holds alot , thats his style

Clinching, while not always the most exciting thing, is a tactic of boxing. It isn't something you do just because you are lazy or boring, you can do it to frustrate your opponent, catch your breath, intimidate or even tire out the guy you are fighting.

Hopkins style isn't always pleasant, but it works to slow down an aggressive boxer.

Calzaghe is world famous for throwing a lot, and so the clinch as a tactic was the correct call.


p.s. you are absolutely right about the nukes, btw..

[sakuraba]

[QUOTE=Spider;1954164]2 people can watch the same fight and have different opinions on who won who didnt , doesnt make either one an idiot or clueless , just judge on different things ...... I hate a mother ****er that clinches , it is a fight after all not a holding contest ...... B hop holds alot , thats his style ........

Actually B-Hop doesn't hold that much. If you have followed his career you'd see that. He does hold but not as much as people are saying here. Also he was the more effective in-fighter in the Calzaghe fight. Throwing sharp little inside hooks, and rights. Calzaghe was the one holding, which is why he got hit so much on the inside.

Remember if the other fighter falls into you, often all you can do is clinch him. Calzaghe fell in a lot.

[sakuraba]

we won cause we drop 2 big ones on Japan , if we hadnt millions of more lives would have been lost
__________________

Exactly my point. It is effective punches that count, not volume.

[Spider]

[QUOTE=Spider;1954164]2 people can watch the same fight and have different opinions on who won who didnt , doesnt make either one an idiot or clueless , just judge on different things ...... I hate a mother ****er that clinches , it is a fight after all not a holding contest ...... B hop holds alot , thats his style ........

Actually B-Hop doesn't hold that much. If you have followed his career you'd see that. He does hold but not as much as people are saying here. Also he was the more effective in-fighter in the Calzaghe fight. Throwing sharp little inside hooks, and rights. Calzaghe was the one holding, which is why he got hit so much on the inside.

Remember if the other fighter falls into you, often all you can do is clinch him. Calzaghe fell in a lot.

really , you dont say .......imagine that

[Spider]

we won cause we drop 2 big ones on Japan , if we hadnt millions of more lives would have been lost
__________________

Exactly my point. It is effective punches that count, not volume.

depends ...... everyone likes the more busy fighter , as I mentioned earlier John Ruiz sucked ass ..... Oscar had most of the fight won against Whitaker , but Oscar started running in the late rounds ..Cost him that fight and rightly so

[sakuraba]

depends ...... everyone likes the more busy fighter , as I mentioned earlier John Ruiz sucked ass ..... Oscar had most of the fight won against Whitaker , but Oscar started running in the late rounds ..Cost him that fight and rightly so

Are you referring to DeLahoya's fight with Trinidad? Where he mostly just moved the last four or five rounds? Granted people didn't like it, but Trinidad also had a responsibility to walk him down, cut off the ring, and get him. It is a ring so it is possible to corner a guy. To be a complete boxer one has to learn these skills.
That's why I like Hopkins so much. He has all the skills. He is a well trained and well rounded fighter. He is also a smart fighter.

Funny, when Ali fought Forman, and just rope a doped, no one called him boring, or pussy; rather they called him brilliant, and inspired.

[BroncoInferno]

but, but, but......Calzaghe scored more on the compubox! what is this "angle's, ring generalship, effective punching" you speak of?

Calzaghe touched him more, just get over it.

Hopkins controlled the ring and landed the more effective shots in the first half of the fight, but what did Hopkins do in the second half? One or two big shots at most and Calzaghe regained control of the pace. While I'd agree the Calzaghe did not dominate, Hopkins simply did nothing to win rounds for most of the second half and that's why he (rightly) lost. I had it 7 round to 5 for Calzaghe with Hopkins winning 4 of the first 6 and Calzaghe winning 5 of the last 6. There were a couple of the early rounds that I gave to Hopkins were there was a legit argument for Calzaghe, though. Simply put, counter-punching and defense is great, but you aren't going to win throwing 25 punches around.

And Calzaghe not a HOF? What are you smoking? The guy defended the SMW title for 21 straight defenses, is now the LHW champ, and has never lost! Granted, he's been in there with his share of tomato cans, but so was Hopkins during his MW reign. Calzaghe won me over against Kessler. He dominated that fight against a guy who I believe will go on to do great things. I was pulling for B-Hop, but the right man got the nod.

[Spider]

Are you referring to DeLahoya's fight with Trinidad? Where he mostly just moved the last four or five rounds? Granted people didn't like it, but Trinidad also had a responsibility to walk him down, cut off the ring, and get him. It is a ring so it is possible to corner a guy. To be a complete boxer one has to learn these skills.
That's why I like Hopkins so much. He has all the skills. He is a well trained and well rounded fighter. He is also a smart fighter.

Funny, when Ali fought Forman, and just rope a doped, no one called him boring, or p***Y; rather they called him brilliant, and inspired.

No I am talking about Pernell Whitaker vs Delahoya ............He also did it vs Trinidad ,and I didnt call Rope a dope inspiring , but Ali with a broken jaw vs Norton was inspiring .....

[sakuraba]

HOF? Really? Other than Hopkins who arguably won that fight, who has he faced. Kessler? He is questionable. He needs to face greats in their prime to be HOF.

[sakuraba]

No I am talking about Pernell Whitaker vs Delahoya ............He also did it vs Trinidad ,and I didnt call Rope a dope inspiring , but Ali with a broken jaw vs Norton was inspiring .....

I love Sweetpea. That guy was a master of defensive movement. He put a boxing lesson on Chavez but lost the fight - hmmmm, Don King have anything to do with that? Interesting, Pernell was famous for "running" and defensive fighting.

Thrilla in Manilla - Frazier came forward and Ali backed up. Sure Frazier's corner called it after the 14th, but I think the decision would have gone Ali's way. He was very defensive through most of that fight, with flurries near the end of the rounds.

[Spider]

**** . i got the fighters backwards , clowning cost Whitaker the fight ... my bad

[Spider]

I love Sweetpea. That guy was a master of defensive movement. He put a boxing lesson on Chavez but lost the fight - hmmmm, Don King have anything to do with that? Interesting, Pernell was famous for "running" and defensive fighting.

Thrilla in Manilla - Frazier came forward and Ali backed up. Sure Frazier's corner called it after the 14th, but I think the decision would have gone Ali's way. He was very defensive through most of that fight, with flurries near the end of the rounds.

Like I said I got the fighters backwards , but Swet pea put on a clinic ....

[Spider]

Thrilla in Manilla - Frazier came forward and Ali backed up. Sure Frazier's corner called it after the 14th, but I think the decision would have gone Ali's way. He was very defensive through most of that fight, with flurries near the end of the rounds.
Smokin Joe Frazier ... I dont know if Ali won the thrilla in Manilla as much as Ali won the PR match ... Ali taking that gorilla out of his pocket and razzing Frasier was a complete hit with the media .......

[Spider]

Ali whipped out that gorilla started hitting it saying .......Come on gorilla we is in Manilla , this is a thrilla ....... it was funny ......

[sakuraba]

Ali was the master. I wish fighters nowadays would stop trying to be the next Ali. They don't have his gift, or mind. They should just stop trying and be themselves.

Poor Frazier, that really hurt him.

[Spider]

Ali was the master. I wish fighters nowadays would stop trying to be the next Ali. They don't have his gift, or mind. They should just stop trying and be themselves. well said .........

Poor Frazier, that really hurt him.
Yeah the thrilla in Manila is still one of the most brutal fights I have seen , both men faught hard , but it does some up the argument of the busy fighter vs the effective fighter , Ali threw alot of puff punches but scored , while Fraizer was out to take Alis head clean off ...... someone must have something on U tube about it ....... I will look , it personifies our discussion

[Spider]

here we go .....
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[sakuraba]

Frazier was the busier, more aggressive fighter, and Ali held a lot. Ali won. But they also went 15 rounds back then. I've always thought Hopkins would benefit from the 15 round fight rather than 12. Also someone earlier made a good point - to be the man you have to beat the man. Back in the day you did not become champion on a split decision. You shouldn't today either. You should soundly beat the champion.

[sakuraba]

Something people don't seem to think about. Compubox is just some guys hitting buttons. It's still guys counting punches. So no super science here.
There are no sensors in the gloves or anything. So again it is subjective.

Also during the Trinidad Delahoya fight, Oscar landed some 300 punches more than Trinidad, yet lost the fight.

[Spider]

Frazier was the busier, more aggressive fighter, and Ali held a lot. Ali won. But they also went 15 rounds back then. I've always thought Hopkins would benefit from the 15 round fight rather than 12. Also someone earlier made a good point - to be the man you have to beat the man. Back in the day you did not become champion on a split decision. You shouldn't today either. You should soundly beat the champion.
I say do away with Judges , let them fight until one is knocked out

[Spider]

Something people don't seem to think about. Compubox is just some guys hitting buttons. It's still guys counting punches. So no super science here.
There are no sensors in the gloves or anything. So again it is subjective.

Also during the Trinidad Delahoya fight, Oscar landed some 300 punches more than Trinidad, yet lost the fight.

Yeah , I think that was more do to Oscar bringing track shoes to a boxing match

[sakuraba]

I say do away with Judges , let them fight until one is knocked out

Now that is old school!

[BroncoInferno]

HOF? Really? Other than Hopkins who arguably won that fight, who has he faced. Kessler? He is questionable. He needs to face greats in their prime to be HOF.

If you defend a title for 21 straight defenses...yes, that is HOF caliber (OK, I will exempt Sven Ottke here as he was on the right side of no fewer than four outright robberies during his title reign). Who did Hopkins face during his MW reign? His biggest wins were against over-stuffed welterweights in De La Hoya and Trinidad. Don't get me wrong, I think Hopkins is an all-time great MW, but his level of competition really isn't much better than Calzaghe's. Hell, who did Hagler face for that matter? Hearns whose best days were at welter, Duran who was old and whose best days were at freakin' lightweight...who else? The thing about all of these guys was you could see the high level of skill as they dominated the guy put in front of them. I'm not saying Calzaghe is as good as a prime Hopkins and certainly not Hagler, but his level of competition is not too far off those guys.

[BroncoInferno]

Something people don't seem to think about. Compubox is just some guys hitting buttons. It's still guys counting punches. So no super science here.
There are no sensors in the gloves or anything. So again it is subjective.

This is true, and I definitely take that into account in this fight. The problem is, while Calzaghe may not have landed big blows during the last half of the fight, neither did Hopkins. So, the nod goes to the busier man in this case.

Also during the Trinidad Delahoya fight, Oscar landed some 300 punches more than Trinidad, yet lost the fight.

And that was a robbery in my view because he was landing volume and the more effective blows. I thought he won 8 of the first 9 rounds before taking the rest of the fight off.

[DenverBrit]

Well, I came into this thread a little late, but here are some thoughts.
Hopkins won that fight.

Volume punching is not more import than effective punching. It is the effectiveness of a punch that matters. One can pitty pat, and shoe shine all they want, but it is effective punches that are to be scored, and to weigh more heavily in the scoring. Hopkins had the more effective punching.

Ring generalship counts for points. This goes hands down to Hopkins. Even in the late rounds Hopkins was controlling. Turn the commentary down and watch. You will see this was the case. And for all those who said he held, it takes two to hold in the clinch. That is a truism from boxing. If you don't believe or understand that, then you have no business discussing that particular topic. Go ask Teddy Atlas, he'll tell you .

As for fighting while backing up. The second half of Ali's career was fighting while backing up. It is the hight of skill to fight this way, which is why so few do it.

Hopkins won the fight .

People don't understand boxing these days. They have been conditioned, by hightlight reels, and movies, and youtube brawls. Slipping, angles, footwork , all the subtle things that make it a science are lost on the average viewer. They just want to see someone swinging. Just because you're spinning your wheels, doesn't mean you're going anywhere.

Apparently not. LOL

[Jason7730]

Hopkins controlled the ring and landed the more effective shots in the first half of the fight, but what did Hopkins do in the second half? One or two big shots at most and Calzaghe regained control of the pace. While I'd agree the Calzaghe did not dominate, Hopkins simply did nothing to win rounds for most of the second half and that's why he (rightly) lost. I had it 7 round to 5 for Calzaghe with Hopkins winning 4 of the first 6 and Calzaghe winning 5 of the last 6. There were a couple of the early rounds that I gave to Hopkins were there was a legit argument for Calzaghe, though. Simply put, counter-punching and defense is great, but you aren't going to win throwing 25 punches around.

And Calzaghe not a HOF? What are you smoking? The guy defended the SMW title for 21 straight defenses, is now the LHW champ, and has never lost! Granted, he's been in there with his share of tomato cans, but so was Hopkins during his MW reign. Calzaghe won me over against Kessler. He dominated that fight against a guy who I believe will go on to do great things. I was pulling for B-Hop, but the right man got the nod.

I agree with BroncoInferno on this one. :thumbsup:

[Spider]

Ok I am watching the fight now , dont know if you guys have heard of this , but I got on demand , so I am watching the fight ..
round 1 10-8 B hop ....

[Spider]

round 2 ......... Low blow , B hop might get a movie contract for that act ....
B hop holding alot with the left hand tieing up Cal ...... do what you got to do ...
10-9 B hop

[Jason7730]

round 2 ......... Low blow , B hop might get a movie contract for that act ....
B hop holding alot with the left hand tieing up Cal ...... do what you got to do ...
10-9 B hop

I'll bet you will agree when the fight is over that Hopkins held and backed-up way too much. That's what I saw. IMHO.

[Spider]

round 3 ... better round for Cal . I was going ot give it to B hop until those 3 good left hooks from Cal
10-9 Cal .......

[Spider]

Round 4 . Roach calls a time out , lectures both fighter , mainly B hop ..Cal dropping his hands like an Idiot , B hop 43 , he has seen all the tricks .....
Round 4 10-9 B hop

[Spider]

Round 5 ..... B hop Lunged missed aid for it ..... sorry B Hop fans but Cal is taking over this fight Round 5 is all Cal ....Iam no lawyer , but I think B hop could file stalking charges .... Big Left from Cal before the Bell
Round 5 Cal 10-9

[Spider]

round 6 , Cal left hand is landing almost at will , not much power but he is scoring .... B hop has more miles backing up then I do ...... Sorry B Hop fans butthat isnt ring generalship , thats hoping Cal will come in and make a mistake
Round 6 10-9 Cal

[Spider]

Round 7 ..... Cal almost went down near the end ...... Damn near a 2 point round . but he didnt bell rang
Cal 10-9

[Spider]

Round 8 ...Cal is a slapper no question about it , but to many combos from Cal
Round 8 to Cal , though some could argue for B hop at the bell ......

[Spider]

round 9 10-9 Cal

[Spider]

Round 10 .....
Low blow my ass ... But I do see a will Smith -B hop movie in the near future
back to action B hop lunged again bt this time connected ......
B hop throws 2 low blows himself , but no effect on Cal 10-9 Cal , but a special note to B hop acting talent

[Spider]

rond 11 .... 10-9 Cal
barring a Knockout this is Cals fight

[Eli_Cash]

I watched the fight 3 times saturday night.

Calzaghe won every time.

I understand the arguments made for Hopkins but I think they miss the bigger point.

5 punches a round makes it hard to beat anyone.

Props to Hopkins for ALMOST doing it.


Nice post by BroncoInferno as well.....

[Spider]

round 12 ..10-9 cal

[Spider]

I scored it as I saw it .......