PDA

View Full Version : Pentagon institute calls Iraq war 'a major debacle' with outcome 'in doubt'


L.A. BRONCOS FAN
04-17-2008, 10:26 PM
By Jonathan S. Landay and John Walcott, McClatchy Newspapers 2 hours, 35 minutes ago

WASHINGTON — The war in Iraq has become "a major debacle" and the outcome "is in doubt" despite improvements in security from the buildup in U.S. forces, according to a highly critical study published Thursday by the Pentagon's premier military educational institute.

The report released by the National Defense University raises fresh doubts about President Bush 's projections of a U.S. victory in Iraq just a week after Bush announced that he was suspending U.S. troop reductions.

The report carries considerable weight because it was written by Joseph Collins , a former senior Pentagon official, and was based in part on interviews with other former senior defense and intelligence officials who played roles in prewar preparations.

It was published by the university's National Institute for Strategic Studies, a Defense Department research center.

"Measured in blood and treasure, the war in Iraq has achieved the status of a major war and a major debacle," says the report's opening line.

At the time the report was written last fall, more than 4,000 U.S. and foreign troops, more than 7,500 Iraqi security forces and as many as 82,000 Iraqi civilians had been killed and tens of thousands of others wounded, while the cost of the war since March 2003 was estimated at $450 billion .

"No one as yet has calculated the costs of long-term veterans' benefits or the total impact on service personnel and materiel," wrote Collins, who was involved in planning post-invasion humanitarian operations.

The report said that the United States has suffered serious political costs, with its standing in the world seriously diminished. Moreover, operations in Iraq have diverted "manpower, materiel and the attention of decision-makers" from "all other efforts in the war on terror" and severely strained the U.S. armed forces.

"Compounding all of these problems, our efforts there (in Iraq ) were designed to enhance U.S. national security, but they have become, at least temporarily, an incubator for terrorism and have emboldened Iran to expand its influence throughout the Middle East ," the report continued.

The addition of 30,000 U.S. troops to Iraq last year to halt the country's descent into all-out civil war has improved security, but not enough to ensure that the country emerges as a stable democracy at peace with its neighbors, the report said.

"Despite impressive progress in security, the outcome of the war is in doubt," said the report. "Strong majorities of both Iraqis and Americans favor some sort of U.S. withdrawal. Intelligence analysts, however, remind us that the only thing worse than an Iraq with an American army may be an Iraq after a rapid withdrawal of that army."

"For many analysts (including this one), Iraq remains a 'must win,' but for many others, despite obvious progress under General David Petraeus and the surge, it now looks like a 'can't win.'"

The report lays much of the blame for what went wrong in Iraq after the initial U.S. victory at the feet of then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld . It says that in November 2001 , before the war in Afghanistan was over, President Bush asked Rumsfeld "to begin planning in secret for potential military operations against Iraq ."

Rumsfeld, who was closely allied with Vice President Dick Cheney , bypassed the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the report says, and became "the direct supervisor of the combatant commanders."

" . . . the aggressive, hands-on Rumsfeld," it continues, "cajoled and pushed his way toward a small force and a lightning fast operation." Later, he shut down the military's computerized deployment system, "questioning, delaying or deleting units on the numerous deployment orders that came across his desk."

In part because "long, costly, manpower-intensive post-combat operations were anathema to Rumsfeld," the report says, the U.S. was unprepared to fight what Collins calls "War B," the battle against insurgents and sectarian violence that began in mid-2003, shortly after "War A," the fight against Saddam Hussein's forces, ended.

Compounding the problem was a series of faulty assumptions made by Bush's top aides, among them an expectation fed by Iraqi exiles that Iraqis would be grateful to America for liberating them from Saddam's dictatorship. The administration also expected that " Iraq without Saddam could manage and fund its own reconstruction."

The report also singles out the Bush administration's national security apparatus and implicitly President Bush and both of his national security advisers, Condoleezza Rice and Stephen Hadley , saying that "senior national security officials exhibited in many instances an imperious attitude, exerting power and pressure where diplomacy and bargaining might have had a better effect."

Collins ends his report by quoting Winston Churchill , who said: "Let us learn our lessons. Never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. . . . Always remember, however sure you are that you can easily win, that there would not be a war if the other man did not think that he also had a chance."

To read the report:

www.ndu.edu/inss/Occasional_Papers/OP5.pdf (http://www.ndu.edu/inss/Occasional_Papers/OP5.pdf)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20080418/wl_mcclatchy/2913186

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
04-18-2008, 02:43 AM
http://www.bartcop.com/load-monkey.jpg

Rohirrim
04-18-2008, 09:15 AM
Worst president in American history.

Looks like the final decision on pulling out of Iraq will come down to this: Us or them.

baja
04-18-2008, 09:18 AM
Worst president in American history.

Looks like the final decision on pulling out of Iraq will come down to this: Us or them.

so Shock & Awe has turned into Broke & Spent

broncofan7
04-18-2008, 10:01 AM
And the ground work for McCain to get us out of IRAQ has been laid-----

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by broncofan7 http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1950049#post1950049)
McCain will be more moderate--mark my words and will find an 'out' on Iraq--trust me on that one--I actually am Republican on fiscal issues (Taxes, health care) but Democratic on social issues (gay marriage, abortion) and McCain is much more center than the jokers who hijacked the Party starting in 1994 would like--hence the venom coming from the Sean Hannity's of the world until they realized that Romney was not going to pull off the nomination.........


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
FROM LA BRONCOFAN: "What makes you think McCain will be "more moderate?"

What evidence is there for this?"

I will keep you continually updated on the careful and well thought out ways that McCain is going to fix this mess<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

broncofan7
04-18-2008, 10:08 AM
Worst president in American history.



I concur.

baja
04-18-2008, 10:18 AM
And the ground work for McCain to get us out of IRAQ has been laid-----

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by broncofan7 http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1950049#post1950049)
McCain will be more moderate--mark my words and will find an 'out' on Iraq--trust me on that one--I actually am Republican on fiscal issues (Taxes, health care) but Democratic on social issues (gay marriage, abortion) and McCain is much more center than the jokers who hijacked the Party starting in 1994 would like--hence the venom coming from the Sean Hannity's of the world until they realized that Romney was not going to pull off the nomination.........


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
FROM LA BRONCOFAN: "What makes you think McCain will be "more moderate?"

What evidence is there for this?"

I will keep you continually updated on the careful and well thought out ways that McCain is going to fix this mess<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

So far you have offered nothing on McCain so how is an update possible

Florida_Bronco
04-18-2008, 10:37 AM
I think at this point, it's pretty much stating the obvious. Unfortunately we're in a real tough situation as the Iraqi people are just not ready to govern themselves (and according to some, aren't putting that much effort into it) so we have basically two options, as I see it.

1) Stay, and hope (emphasis on hope) that we can get things squared away there. Bad part is, we will continue pouring money into Iraq at the cost of our own economy.

2) Pull out now, and hope the whole country doesn't go into complete chaos. Their oil production may drop even further and our gas prices would probably get worse.

I'd say this one of those "you're damned if you and damned if you don't" type things.

baja
04-18-2008, 10:43 AM
There's a third option, elect John McCain and let the war expand to Iran and God knows who all else.

broncofan7
04-18-2008, 10:56 AM
There's a third option, elect John McCain and let the war expand to Iran and God knows who all else.

McCain was seen as an enemy of the current administration in everything from taxes to spending--he will not continue down this track of expansionism and will in fcat get us out of Iraq--he had to pander to the crazy Right wing base in the Primary but will come back to the center and get us out of Iraq--in order to do it and not lose as much face--he needs to have reports like this one come out and have the press give it some air time.....

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
04-19-2008, 01:38 AM
<center> http://www.bartcop.com/water-bushing.jpg
This poor bastard was herding sheep when someone pointed to him
and then got paid $5,000 by our wonderful, Christian president.
If you offer some broke dude $5,000 to point out "Al Qaeda,"
do you think he's going to point out just 2-3 people?
</center>

Spider
04-19-2008, 08:47 AM
I will keep you continually updated on the careful and well thought out ways that McCain is going to fix this mess

McCain couldnt fix a peanut butter sandwich ....... look stupid , McCain was on TV and admitted he didnt know **** about the economy , if he cant fix that , you cant fix anything else , kinda like putting a flat tire back on a car ......

Dukes
04-19-2008, 10:11 AM
McCain couldnt fix a peanut butter sandwich ....... look stupid , McCain was on TV and admitted he didnt know **** about the economy , if he cant fix that , you cant fix anything else , kinda like putting a flat tire back on a car ......

Which means he'll put someone there that DOES know what he's doing. Is it better to have some schmuck that thinks he knows about the economy, but actually has no clue? Great logic

baja
04-19-2008, 10:18 AM
We do not need a 72 year old president right now, period!

peacepipe
04-19-2008, 10:22 AM
Which means he'll put someone there that DOES know what he's doing. Is it better to have some schmuck that thinks he knows about the economy, but actually has no clue? Great logicGWB has been there,done that & look where it has gotten us. The "I may not know what I'm doing but I'll hire somebody that does" slogan has already been tried.

baja
04-19-2008, 10:27 AM
in order for that to work you have to know a good idea when you hear it.

Bush just went with what the last person he spoke with told him to do.

peacepipe
04-19-2008, 10:33 AM
Which means he'll put someone there that DOES know what he's doing. Is it better to have some schmuck that thinks he knows about the economy, but actually has no clue? Great logic
Maybe that someone that does know should be the one running for president.

Spider
04-19-2008, 11:11 AM
Which means he'll put someone there that DOES know what he's doing. Is it better to have some schmuck that thinks he knows about the economy, but actually has no clue? Great logic
LOL , he will ?
Like who ?
your logic will lead us down of 4 more years of the last 8 years ....... 12 years of this **** ......just a suggestion , but it would be better for the country and cheaper for you to hire a dominatrix to abuse you , and leave the rest of us alone .........