Last Night's Debate

[Rohirrim]

Anybody watch the debate last night? I did. Obama did not do well. This guy just isn't ready for the Right Wing machine that is getting oiled up right now in preparation of gutting him like a fish. He thinks he knows, but he doesn't have a clue.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/17/907930.aspx

I can't believe the Obamatrons don't think the Ayers and Reverend Wright stuff, added in with his own blunders, are not going to sink this guy. I'm telling you, folks. It will be another Nixon/McGovern. By the time November rolls around, Obama looks like Dukakis: Phase Deux.

Read how he screwed up the gun question. You think the NRA isn't going to make commercials about this?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-04-17-fact-check_N.htm

[TheDave]

Just a question Roh,

Where were all these level headed electability questions when you were carrying Ron Pauls water?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Debates have little or no impact on voter decisions but if I've heard enough of McCain to know he's no orator. McCain's gotten a free pass so far since he's sitting on the sidelines. Don't expect that to continue in the general election.

[Rohirrim]

Just a question Roh,

Where were all these level headed electability questions when you were carrying Ron Pauls water?

Ha! I'll be rooting for the Broncos to win another Lombardi this season too.

I'm just commenting as an observer. I'm sitting on a hillside watching a train hurtling toward a ravine where the bridge is washed out and I'm calling out to the people on that train that things might not work out the way they intend. But they're all in the diner car getting ****-faced and they believe everything is just peachy.

[Dukes]

I wouldn't expect the Republicans to really go after Obama. They are terrified of being labeled racists, bigots or any other stereotype attached to them. And that is exactly what would happen

[Meck77]

I watched some of it. Together they might just put a republican in office. What teamwork!

[TheDave]

Ha! I'll be rooting for the Broncos to win another Lombardi this season too.

I'm just commenting as an observer. I'm sitting on a hillside watching a train hurtling toward a ravine where the bridge is washed out and I'm calling out to the people on that train that things might not work out the way they intend. But they're all in the diner car getting ****-faced and they believe everything is just peachy.

Fair enough... :thumbs:

[Rohirrim]

Debates have little or no impact on voter decisions but if I've heard enough of McCain to know he's no orator. McCain's gotten a free pass so far since he's sitting on the sidelines. Don't expect that to continue in the general election.

So you believe the Reverend Wright, William Ayers, Rezco, etc. stuff will pretty much have no impact? Some of the underground politico voices are saying Obama has little chance of garnering the Jewish vote. They simply do not trust him on Israel. He's not popular with hispanics in the SW. His standing among blue collar white males is in the toilet. Hell, the guy was asked point blank in the debates last night, by viewers, if he loves this country, if he's patriotic, and how he feels about the flag. Just the fact those questions are being asked is dangerous enough. From the way things stand right now, he might have big trouble in Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Colorado and New Mexico. I just can't believe the Obamatrons really believe this guy is going to just skate into the WH.

[Rohirrim]

I wouldn't expect the Republicans to really go after Obama. They are terrified of being labeled racists, bigots or any other stereotype attached to them. And that is exactly what would happen

I got two words for you: Swift Boat.

[footstepsfrom#27]

So you believe the Reverend Wright, William Ayers, Rezco, etc. stuff will pretty much have no impact? Some of the underground politico voices are saying Obama has little chance of garnering the Jewish vote. They simply do not trust him on Israel. He's not popular with hispanics in the SW. His standing among blue collar white males is in the toilet. Hell, the guy was asked point blank in the debates last night, by viewers, if he loves this country, if he's patriotic, and how he feels about the flag. Just the fact those questions are being asked is dangerous enough. From the way things stand right now, he might have big trouble in Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Colorado and New Mexico. I just can't believe the Obamatrons really believe this guy is going to just skate into the WH.
Ever hear of the Keating Five? You will.

Unlike John McCain who has a long history of shady dealings and actual charges of corruption, Obama has no such baggage. It's a powerful testimony to how squeaky clean this guy really is that the best his detractors can come up with is where he went to church and a spin doctored sound byte wrenched from its context on the plight of small town America.

If you think the prospect of the ancient, out of touch and eager to war John McCain dragging Bush's lame duck endorsement and his own questionable past around with him won't damage him in the fall you're not looking at the true facts.

[Rohirrim]

Ever hear of the Keating Five? You will.

Unlike John McCain who has a long history of shady dealings and actual charges of corruption, Obama has no such baggage. It's a powerful testimony to how squeaky clean this guy really is that the best his detractors can come up with is where he went to church and a spin doctored sound byte wrenched from its context on the plight of small town America.

If you think the prospect of the ancient, out of touch and eager to war John McCain dragging Bush's lame duck endorsement and his own questionable past around with him won't damage him in the fall you're not looking at the true facts.

Yes I am. And I agree. McCain is a slime ball. Unfortunately, all of that very true stuff about the slime ball McCain will only hurt him among a constituency he couldn't win anyway. The stuff about Obama hurts him among a constituency he must have to win. This election will be a struggle, as all elections have been since the '80s, to bring in what's known as the Reagan Democrats. Clinton won them. Gore and Kerry could not. The stuff about Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, his wife's comments, his comments, and the patriotism stuff, hurts him specifically with that part of the electorate.

How we feel about a candidate has nothing to do with it. It's purely a numbers game.

[baja]

Unlike John McCain who has a long history of shady dealings and actual charges of corruption, Obama has no such baggage. It's a powerful testimony to how squeaky clean this guy really is that the best his detractors can come up with is where he went to church and a spin doctored sound byte wrenched from its context on the plight of small town America.





And by all accounts Kerry was a war hero but that did not stop the republicans from successfully slandering his service record.

[ScottXray]

I watched the whole debate and Got more and more POed about the questions as it went along. It was all about the inane prattle that the media has seized on and the real issues wern't discussed until the last 35-40 minutes.

Maybe its because of the fact that Obama and Clinton are so similar in their positions, that the questions were framed the way they were, but the questions were mainly about what the media wants , which is to continue the
discussions about purported weaknesses. Obama tried several times to direct the conversation to real issues, and was somewhat indignant about the types of questions being given , when they kept returning to the same subjects.

I noted that when asked about his serving on a board with Ayers was called into question by Clinton (after he had responded to the original question posed by the mediator with a reference to the fact that
he was 8 years old when Ayers commited his "despicable acts", and he could not be ascribed to hold the same beliefs because he knew him now) he mentioned that knowing Ayers was a far cry from issuing Pardons to some of the Chicago 7 that her husband had done. When asked if Clinton cared to respond to that , she preferred to go to commercial....and the subject was not mentioned again.

Overall the whole "debate" was not what I expected, but it was framed around what the media wants us to hear..

[Rohirrim]

And by all accounts Kerry was a war hero but that did not stop the republicans from successfully slandering his service record.

That's what I'm arguing. I don't like Clinton more than Obama. The truth is, I don't like either of them much. Frankly, if it was up to me to select the next president, I would choose Gary Hart. My argument is that I DEFINITELY don't want McCain to be the next prez. That would be Bush: The Redux. But I'm watching the Democratic Party doing everything in their power to roll dead straight in that direction. Billary's argument is actually correct: She and Bubba have been raked over the coals by the Right so hard that there is no ammo left for them to use on her. She can take it. Obama can't. They'll take him apart.

This is one thing the Dems can never seem figure out: Just because the elite wine and cheese Dems and their movie star buddies are all standing around nodding in agreement, and the youth vote (whatever that might turn out to be) and the majority of the black vote are partying with them, it does not give you the election. You cannot win without the Reagan Democrats. In other words, blue collar white males. Throw in hispanics and the Jewish vote and you're in deep ****. Bubba showed them how to do it, but they still can't get it through their ****ing heads.

[Beantown Bronco]

Unlike John McCain who has a long history of shady dealings and actual charges of corruption, Obama has no such baggage. It's a powerful testimony to how squeaky clean this guy really is......

Like my buddy Alonzo says, "Sometimes you gotta have a little dirt on you for anybody to trust you."

[footstepsfrom#27]

Yes I am. And I agree. McCain is a slime ball. Unfortunately, all of that very true stuff about the slime ball McCain will only hurt him among a constituency he couldn't win anyway.
The stuff about Obama hurts him among a constituency he must have to win.
Why do you assume this? The latest polls in PA, NC and IN show Obama gaining slightly among men, oldler people and conservative democrats...all groups that are important to him AND McCain. I don't know if you're saying this or not but it almost sounds like you're suggesting that blacks will continue voting for Obama and whites for McCain. I don't think it's going to be that simple and in fact I don't think that will even hold true. Some people will never vote for Obama since he's black or liberal. That group isn't goint to be impacted no matter what happens. Same holds true for McCain...
This election will be a struggle, as all elections have been since the '80s, to bring in what's known as the Reagan Democrats. Clinton won them. Gore and Kerry could not. The stuff about Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, his wife's comments, his comments, and the patriotism stuff, hurts him specifically with that part of the electorate.
See above on how conservative DEMS are giving Obama a boost in the next three states on the list

How we feel about a candidate has nothing to do with it.
Actually it has everything to do with it. People tend to vote for someone they like if they're not strict party loyalists. Is McCain likeable? That's a rhetorical question BTW. :giggle:

[SonOfLe-loLang]

That's what I'm arguing. I don't like Clinton more than Obama. The truth is, I don't like either of them much. Frankly, if it was up to me to select the next president, I would choose Gary Hart. My argument is that I DEFINITELY don't want McCain to be the next prez. That would be Bush: The Redux. But I'm watching the Democratic Party doing everything in their power to roll dead straight in that direction. Billary's argument is actually correct: She and Bubba have been raked over the coals by the Right so hard that there is no ammo left for them to use on her. She can take it. Obama can't. They'll take him apart.

This is one thing the Dems can never seem figure out: Just because the elite wine and cheese Dems and their movie star buddies are all standing around nodding in agreement, and the youth vote (whatever that might turn out to be) and the majority of the black vote are partying with them, it does not give you the election. You cannot win without the Reagan Democrats. In other words, blue collar white males. Throw in hispanics and the Jewish vote and you're in deep ****. Bubba showed them how to do it, but they still can't get it through their ****ing heads.


I tend to agree with this, though i do believe this election is a different animal simply because politics have become "sexy" again. It cant be forgotten that the voting numbers in the primaries were ten times higher in some places then they were in previous years...so even though the young vote has never had much impact, it might now. (not saying it will be, but the primary turnout makes it enter the conversation.)

I am skeptical of whether or not America is ready for a black president. Though the race issue has eased over the years, I'm not not sure it's quite there yet. After all, the race issue is how the conservatives won over the south in the first place, not sure its completely ready to be reversed...though it might be, due to other factors, compiled with the fact that some conservatives dislike mccain (which i still dont understand because he sure seems conservative to me!)

The biggest reason i'm scared of McCain is because the media fellates this guy on a daily basis and feeds on the democrats skeletons...why the hell would we want Gibson and Steph moderating last night, pushing their agenda???? Can't we have some liberals moderating so we can talk about issues? Last night's debate was a disgrace (though i expected it as all of them are just a show). I'm not sure how the media will handle the general election, but lets not forget chris matthews comment about the media being John McCain's base. he will be protected to some extent. The democrats should run 5 minute long commercial ads that mention McCain's quotes about not knowing much about the economy. Also, mention that under McCain's rule, the draft will need to be reinstated. Did he say that? no...but under his policies, its certainly a possibility. If it were the reverse, the republicans would go there, trust me on that.

OK, but for once, im going to look at the glass half full. Recently released polls show that McCain is running even with Obama for the general. Now McCain's policies SUCK and hes old as sin, but with the democrats beating the hell out of each other, ignoring mccain, combined with the fact that McCain has gotten a free ride thus far in general, it might be surprising that he's not 10-15 points ahead right now. Remember, this is even before the democrats can sift through his baggage, WHICH IS PLENTIFUL! I'm sure Obama is salivating over debating the war and economy with McCain. America is tired of the conservative movement, i know it, they HAVE to be...use this against McCain.

I'm sure, come the fall, the mostly right wing media will try to present the public with the bright shiny object (rev. wright, etc) but HOPEFULLY, HOPEFULLY the actual ISSUES in america are a big enough problem this go around where people won't vote on retarded identity politics. Democrats usually do well when the economy is in the ****ter due to republican rule.

Lets hope!

[yavoon]

the truly hilarious part about the debate is the REACTION. I think some people's heads are exploding. because god forbid obama not be asked some softball about his healthcare plan for the 562nd time. and god forbid a presidential candidate get any character questions, candidates should be allowed to position their character and beliefs in any way they wish with the endless stump speeches and layup interview questions and idiotic anecdotes. and any attempt to challenge that should be out of bounds!

you think when Obama was busy puffing up his character that the psychotic Obama supporters were crying because he wasn't talking about "real policies?" and since when is "change" "hope" "bitter" a real policy anyway? notice when Obama was spinning like a top about his cracker comments that he focused intensely on how bitter everyone was and how he would change that. yet no policy behind it! oh the outrage! the obama crazies only allow policy issues!

[peacepipe]

Obama will be fine, They asked him hogwash questions, like that whole 70s thing about weather ayers. When they should've asked Why the clintons pardoned 2 of them.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

the truly hilarious part about the debate is the REACTION. I think some people's heads are exploding. because god forbid obama not be asked some softball about his healthcare plan for the 562nd time. and god forbid a presidential candidate get any character questions, candidates should be allowed to position their character and beliefs in any way they wish with the endless stump speeches and layup interview questions and idiotic anecdotes. and any attempt to challenge that should be out of bounds!

you think when Obama was busy puffing up his character that the psychotic Obama supporters were crying because he wasn't talking about "real policies?" and since when is "change" "hope" "bitter" a real policy anyway? notice when Obama was spinning like a top about his cracker comments that he focused intensely on how bitter everyone was and how he would change that. yet no policy behind it! oh the outrage! the obama crazies only allow policy issues!

Character concerns are one thing...taking a quote and formulating an entire opinion of a man is just this BS show biz politics the media throws out at us...and the sad thing is people eat this up. Most of the "character concerns" brought up are really just nonsense, especially with this election.

[yavoon]

Character concerns are one thing...taking a quote and formulating an entire opinion of a man is just this BS show biz politics the media throws out at us...and the sad thing is people eat this up. Most of the "character concerns" brought up are really just nonsense, especially with this election.

yes especially obama the messiah is running. lets face reality, character is puffed ENDLESSLY by Obama, his campaign and Obama's supporters. and now we're suppose to believe that his enormous avalanche of far left america hating associations is somehow not relevant? that telling americans they are dumb crackers voting on stupid issues is not relevant?

[Rohirrim]

Why do you assume this? The latest polls in PA, NC and IN show Obama gaining slightly among men, oldler people and conservative democrats...all groups that are important to him AND McCain. I don't know if you're saying this or not but it almost sounds like you're suggesting that blacks will continue voting for Obama and whites for McCain. I don't think it's going to be that simple and in fact I don't think that will even hold true. Some people will never vote for Obama since he's black or liberal. That group isn't goint to be impacted no matter what happens. Same holds true for McCain...

See above on how conservative DEMS are giving Obama a boost in the next three states on the list


Actually it has everything to do with it. People tend to vote for someone they like if they're not strict party loyalists. Is McCain likeable? That's a rhetorical question BTW. :giggle:

I very clearly did not say it's a white/black thing. Read it again. Polls are only a little piece of the pie. It's like listening only to Kiper and thinking you know something about the draft. This is not the only site I come to. I like politics. I roam all over. Politico, Realclear, Huffington, Slate, blogs, etc. One of the things I was picking up was actually mentioned by Chris Matthews the other night. There is an undercurrent. Obama is not strong with the Jewish vote, the hispanic vote, and weakest still among the Reagan Dems. Obama has been hurt by this stuff. You can pretend its not true, whatever suits your needs.

BTW, today's AP/Yahoo poll has McCain beating both Obama and Clinton.

[footstepsfrom#27]

yes especially obama the messiah is running. lets face reality, character is puffed ENDLESSLY by Obama, his campaign and Obama's supporters. and now we're suppose to believe that his enormous avalanche of far left america hating associations is somehow not relevant? that telling americans they are dumb crackers voting on stupid issues is not relevant?
Listening to you I have renewed respect for the dangers of lead based paint.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I very clearly did not say it's a white/black thing. Read it again. Polls are only a little piece of the pie. It's like listening only to Kiper and thinking you know something about the draft. This is not the only site I come to. I like politics. I roam all over. Politico, Realclear, Huffington, Slate, blogs, etc. One of the things I was picking up was actually mentioned by Chris Matthews the other night. There is an undercurrent. Obama is not strong with the Jewish vote, the hispanic vote, and weakest still among the Reagan Dems. Obama has been hurt by this stuff. You can pretend its not true, whatever suits your needs.

BTW, today's AP/Yahoo poll has McCain beating both Obama and Clinton.
And the trend over time has Obama beating McCain. Selecting a single snapshot in time of fickle voter opinion leads to an unreliable conclusion. I'm not sure what you mean by "whatever suits your needs". I've already noted that one of the very groups you've mentioned, conservative DEMS...are also showing an increase in support among the very voters where his latest remarks should have hurt him...rural America. As for the "undercurrent"...who cares? Is anyone on this board other than Bafoon and the 18 year old who pulled himself up by his bootstraps to join the middle class actually think that a black guy running for president was NOT going to produce some kind of "undercurrent"?

We'll know much more about the impact of all this once the playing field has leveled and McCain has to face his record in the glaring spotlight, something he's not had to do so far.

[cutthemdown]

If I was the Dems I would worry Repubs have some good ammo for Obama. They don't seem worried about him IMO. It's almost like they are sitting back saying wait until we unviel a few people we have found that remember barrack from his drug days. A picture of Obama doing drugs, or someone saying that Obama used to sell his friends some drugs etc etc. I mean how many people that used to party never picked up some stuff for a friend then added some profit to the end of it to pay for yours?

Obama I'm not sure will be able to handle the rightwing onslaught.

[Bronco Bob]

I wouldn't expect the Republicans to really go after Obama. They are terrified of being labeled racists, bigots or any other stereotype attached to them. And that is exactly what would happen

One woman at work (white, mid 30's) said she wouldn't vote for Obama
because he's a Muslim. I suspect there are a lot of people like that
out there, even if they aren't admitting it to the pollsters.
The Republicans aren't going to say anything overtly racist. It will be a lot
of wink-wink, nudge-nudge sort of stuff that will appeal to this sort
of voter.

[footstepsfrom#27]

One woman at work (white, mid 30's) said she wouldn't vote for Obama
because he's a Muslim. I suspect there are a lot of people like that
out there, even if they aren't admitting it to the pollsters.
The Republicans aren't going to say anything overtly racist. It will be a lot
of wink-wink, nudge-nudge sort of stuff that will appeal to this sort
of voter.
Sad commentary on the true nature of the GOP braintrust...makes me wonder why you identify with them.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

One woman at work (white, mid 30's) said she wouldn't vote for Obama
because he's a Muslim. I suspect there are a lot of people like that
out there, even if they aren't admitting it to the pollsters.
The Republicans aren't going to say anything overtly racist. It will be a lot
of wink-wink, nudge-nudge sort of stuff that will appeal to this sort
of voter.

Its incredible that people still think he's a muslim. I read a poll where something like 10 percent of the people who "had good knowledge" of the REVEREND wright situation also thought Obama was a Muslim...haha We have some intelligent people in this country.

[yavoon]

the real democratic plan if obama is nominated is to call every criticism of obama "secretly racist." we see previews of this in the constant references to "lynching" whenever obama is questioned, and the hilarious assertion that the word elitist is now a secret racist code word. this will whip up the democratic base against the evil republicans as they will have to fight all those dumb racist hicks in small towns.

[Bronco Bob]

Sad commentary on the true nature of the GOP braintrust...makes me wonder why you identify with them.

Where did you get the idea this woman was a Republican?

[Hotrod]

The only debate I saw last night was Hotrod vs Wife. I won hands down

[Rohirrim]

Its incredible that people still think he's a muslim. I read a poll where something like 10 percent of the people who "had good knowledge" of the REVEREND wright situation also thought Obama was a Muslim...haha We have some intelligent people in this country.

Last poll I saw on the subject, 40% of Americans still think Saddam had something to do with 911. :pity:

[Rohirrim]

The only debate I saw last night was Hotrod vs Wife. I won hands down

Yeah. Right. :giggle:

[Hotrod]

Yeah. Right. :giggle:

LOL my couch sleeps remarkable well

[Rohirrim]

And the trend over time has Obama beating McCain. Selecting a single snapshot in time of fickle voter opinion leads to an unreliable conclusion. I'm not sure what you mean by "whatever suits your needs". I've already noted that one of the very groups you've mentioned, conservative DEMS...are also showing an increase in support among the very voters where his latest remarks should have hurt him...rural America. As for the "undercurrent"...who cares? Is anyone on this board other than Bafoon and the 18 year old who pulled himself up by his bootstraps to join the middle class actually think that a black guy running for president was NOT going to produce some kind of "undercurrent"?

We'll know much more about the impact of all this once the playing field has leveled and McCain has to face his record in the glaring spotlight, something he's not had to do so far.

I don't know why you keep putting this into racial terms. The "undercurrent" has nothing to do with race. Judging by your posts on all of these Obama threads, you have some kind of hang up about race.

[Dukes]

I got two words for you: Swift Boat.

John Kerry is not black my friend.

[baja]

Your kidding! say it ain't so....

[footstepsfrom#27]

Where did you get the idea this woman was a Republican?
Who said anyting about the woman? I was talking about this statement:

The Republicans aren't going to say anything overtly racist. It will be a lot of wink-wink, nudge-nudge sort of stuff that will appeal to this sort of voter.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Last poll I saw on the subject, 40% of Americans still think Saddam had something to do with 911. :pity:

And, even more incredibly, ~28% still approve of Bush. :D

[footstepsfrom#27]

I don't know why you keep putting this into racial terms. The "undercurrent" has nothing to do with race. Judging by your posts on all of these Obama threads, you have some kind of hang up about race.
Please...there's a reason this is the first time in our history we've had a serious black candidate running for the office. You honestly think that's not an issue with some voters? And yes...much of the distortions, lies and half truths being hatched out there are coming out of that motivation. I'm not saying everyone has that motive, but there's no question that stuff is still out there.

[Dukes]

Please...there's a reason this is the first time in our history we've had a serious black candidate running for the office. You honestly think that's not an issue with some voters? And yes...much of the distortions, lies and half truths being hatched out there are coming out of that motivation. I'm not saying everyone has that motive, but there's no question that stuff is still out there.

Definitely. Voting based on race is just rediculous. If you don't agree with someones politics that's fine, but voting on their skin color is ignorant.

[baja]

My father says," So we got a "****er" or a broad to pick from.

He's my father and I'm his son but I don't see the world that way nor do my two sisters, that's three non-racists replacing one racist so you see things are changing.

[Rohirrim]

Please...there's a reason this is the first time in our history we've had a serious black candidate running for the office. You honestly think that's not an issue with some voters? And yes...much of the distortions, lies and half truths being hatched out there are coming out of that motivation. I'm not saying everyone has that motive, but there's no question that stuff is still out there.

I'm sure it is, but it has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I don't know how more specific I can be. I can only think of two options. You either have reading comprehension problems or you are so locked into a particular concept that nothing else can penetrate.

[Rohirrim]

And, even more incredibly, ~28% still approve of Bush. :D

You wouldn't believe what I saw yesterday. I was behind some pencil-neck in a pick-up truck at a stop light and these were the bumper stickers plastered all over the back of it:

"George W. Bush, 2000"
"W04"
"Jeb Bush, 2008"
"Give War a Chance"

and finally

"I (heart) Global Warming"

I told my son, "I wish I still had my old grenade launcher."

[cutthemdown]

And, even more incredibly, ~28% still approve of Bush. :D

What's worst is Congress has an approval rating almost as bad as Bush. What that tells me is that the public really just hates both parties right now.

A strong 3rd party could really have screwed this election up for the Donkey's or Elephants.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What's worst is Congress has an approval rating almost as bad as Bush. What that tells me is that the public really just hates both parties right now.

True, but if you look at the polls, a clear majority still trust the Dems over the Corrupt Old Party on just about every issue.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You wouldn't believe what I saw yesterday. I was behind some pencil-neck in a pick-up truck at a stop light and these were the bumper stickers plastered all over the back of it:

"George W. Bush, 2000"
"W04"
"Jeb Bush, 2008"
"Give War a Chance"

and finally

"I (heart) Global Warming"

I told my son, "I wish I still had my old grenade launcher."

:laugh:

Amazing how these people are actually proud of their willful ignorance, isn't it?

I saw some obese clown on the 405 a couple weeks ago with a Bush/Cheney sticker on the rear bumper of his beat-up, 20 year-old Honda Accord.

I remarked to the GF that I didn't realize developmentally disabled people could get drivers licenses. :D

[Rohirrim]

This is interesting:
Obama starting to look more and more like Kerry.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/132566

[Bronco Bob]

What's worst is Congress has an approval rating almost as bad as Bush. What that tells me is that the public really just hates both parties right now.

A strong 3rd party could really have screwed this election up for the Donkey's or Elephants.

Well, if you break it down by party, the Democrats in Congress score better
than the Republicans. So part of the reason Congress has a low approval
rating is the Republicans are bringing the score down.

[baja]

Well, if you break it down by party, the Democrats in Congress score better
than the Republicans. So part of the reason Congress has a low approval
rating is the Republicans are bringing the score down.

Have you a link to that breakdown of party numbers?

[footstepsfrom#27]

This is interesting:
Obama starting to look more and more like Kerry.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/132566
I think the REPS will have more difficulty selling this than they did in 2004 with Kerry, when the campaign trail began just 18 months after 911 and the full magnitude of Bush's incompetence was yet to be revealed. McCain looks solid now...but he's yet to face scrutiny on his shabby ethics record or be welded more tightly to Bush's 27% approval rating that he brought upon himself by accepting an endorsement from the least popular president of our times.

I remember Reagan and Bush the elder tearing each other apart in the 1980 primaries and they wound up on the same ticket. The alleged gulf being ripped open by the Hillary factor will heal faster than people surmise once we get to the general election season.

[Beantown Bronco]

And, even more incredibly, ~28% still approve of Bush. :D

They were probably non-English speaking and didn't know what they were agreeing to.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

They were probably non-English speaking and didn't know what they were agreeing to.

:laugh:

Never thought about that.

That would explain it.