Hillary tells lies, Obama is a lie.

[Bronco Bob]

April 15, 2008
A Living Lie
By Thomas Sowell

An e-mail from a reader said that, while Hillary Clinton tells lies, Barack Obama is himself a lie. That is becoming painfully apparent with each new revelation of how drastically his carefully crafted image this election year contrasts with what he has actually been saying and doing for many years.

Senator Obama's election year image is that of a man who can bring the country together, overcoming differences of party or race, as well as solving our international problems by talking with Iran and other countries with which we are at odds, and performing other miscellaneous miracles as needed.

There is, of course, not a speck of evidence that Obama has ever transcended party differences in the United States Senate. Voting records analyzed by the National Journal show him to be the farthest left of anyone in the Senate. Nor has he sponsored any significant bipartisan legislation -- nor any other significant legislation, for that matter.

Senator Obama is all talk -- glib talk, exciting talk, confident talk, but still just talk.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/04/a_living_lie.html

[baja]

Right now McCain's best campaigners are Hillary and Obama

[theAPAOps5]

Should have just posted I hate Obama. Thats all you really care about.

[Bronco Bob]

Should have just posted I hate Obama. Thats all you really care about.

Unlike you Hillary Haters, I don't hate him. Have I ever made any racist
comments about him like your people's constant sexist remarks about
Hillary? Have I ever made up lies about him like you Hillary Haters
do about Mrs. Clinton? No. I just think it's a bad idea to have him as
the Democratic candidate.

[theAPAOps5]

For the record I don't hate Hillary either. You don't have to be a racist to hate Obama. Its clear you despise him especially since he is going to be the democrate nominee.

[Bronco Bob]

For the record I don't hate Hillary either. You don't have to be a racist to hate Obama. Its clear you despise him especially since he is going to be the democrate nominee.

What ever you say, Wilbur.

[Rohirrim]

Perhaps you should post a little bio on Thomas Sowell, Bob. That might shake up the Obamatrons a bit. ;D

While I don't agree with much of Sowell's politics, I do agree with this:

It is understandable that young people are so strongly attracted to Obama. Youth is another name for inexperience -- and experience is what is most needed when dealing with skillful and charismatic demagogues.

Those of us old enough to have seen the type again and again over the years can no longer find them exciting. Instead, they are as tedious as they are dangerous.

[TailgateNut]

Unlike you Hillary Haters, I don't hate him. .


Righto! You love him as much as I love Hillary (the lying biatch).

[TheDave]

I've always said that democrats eat their own better than any group. Right now the right is swallowing hard and getting in line behind McCain. The left is ...well... business as usual.

[Rohirrim]

I've always said that democrats eat their own better than any group. Right now the right is swallowing hard and getting in line behind McCain. The left is ...well... business as usual.

True. It's always fascinating to watch cannibals at work. The hard Left saves its most virulent vitriol for Billary while almost ignoring McCain. This has always been the case. It's a much greater crime to the Left to be a moderate than it is to be a hard Right winger. They would rather burn their house to the ground than give a moderate the nomination.

[theAPAOps5]

True. It's always fascinating to watch cannibals at work. The hard Left saves its most virulent vitriol for Billary while almost ignoring McCain. This has always been the case. It's a much greater crime to the Left to be a moderate than it is to be a hard Right winger. They would rather burn their house to the ground than give a moderate the nomination.

Right on, I agree with this post. I am having a hard time deciding who I will vote for. But I am trying to find all the candidates stance rather than believe all the fluff and negative media coverage.

[baja]

Obama all the way

A shift beyond imagination will take place Dec 12 2012 Get through the time until then is the challenge.

[Rohirrim]

I look at it this way: There are three ****ty choices.

Choice one is Obama, a highly inexperienced demagogue who gives a very good speech; A dangerous combination.

Choice two is McCain, a truly despicable political dinosaur who hasn't seen the war he can't fall in love with and also a Bush clone who tries to sell himself as what he is not: A maverick. A man who sold his dignity to Bush to get this shot at the WH. The worst of the three.

Choice three is Billary, a glaringly ambitious pol who I doubt has ever made a decision in her life that wasn't geared toward her political rise.

What is the best that I can hope for out of these three choices?

The answer is: Competence without any major ****ups.

Given that criteria, and judging from the highly experienced people who would be part of a Billary presidency. I go with her.

There is no enthusiasm for the choice.

Just pragmatism.

[broncocalijohn]

I look at it this way: There are three ****ty choices.

Choice one is Obama, a highly inexperienced demagogue who gives a very good speech; A dangerous combination.

Choice two is McCain, a truly despicable political dinosaur who hasn't seen the war he can't fall in love with and also a Bush clone who tries to sell himself as what he is not: A maverick. A man who sold his dignity to Bush to get this shot at the WH. The worst of the three.

Choice three is Billary, a glaringly ambitious pol who I doubt has ever made a decision in her life that wasn't geared toward her political rise.

What is the best that I can hope for out of these three choices?




Another choice. I will take my vote and go third party again. Yes, it wont make a hell of beans in this election but it is my protest and I can say I didnt vote for the screw up ie. George Bush (even though LABF thinks I did).

[Spider]

;D i pulled a good one at the T/A in Baytown Texas , walked into the Chester fried chicken and said give me the Hillary Special .... The gal behind the counter had a puzzled look and asked what is that ? I said 2 large thighs and small breast .... Some Idiot behind me started laughing and Bashing Hillary and Obama , I turned around and said , dont laugh cause I am voting for either one , No way in Hell am I voting for McSame , went through the list of reasons why , this guy said Obama or Hillary wont bring down fuel prices , I said they pass that winfall tax , you watch fuel prices drop .... end of convo ;D

[Willynowei]

Experience in politics just means you know whos palm to grease to get what you want done. Obama won't need that if he becomes as popular with the American people as I can see him being.

[Bronco Bob]

Experience in politics just means you know whos palm to grease to get what you want done. Obama won't need that if he becomes as popular with the American people as I can see him being.

That seems to be the main theme of why the Obamatrons are for Obama.
They think once in he is elected, everyone will be in as much love with
him as they are, the lion will lay down with the lamb. Iran, China, Russia will
all beat the swords into plowshares, and everything will be rainbows and butterflies. Despite no record whatsoever of bringing any opposing factions
together, even in the Senate.

[Spider]

this entire piece is a lie , first off we dont know if Obama can do these things or not , but he believes he can , we could say Obama has delusions of grandeurs or isnt living in the real world , or has a fairy tale view of issues , but he isnt a lie

[baja]

Damn I just noticed your post count - you'll hit 60 k by May

[Willynowei]

That seems to be the main theme of why the Obamatrons are for Obama.
They think once in he is elected, everyone will be in as much love with
him as they are, the lion will lay down with the lamb. Iran, China, Russia will
all beat the swords into plowshares, and everything will be rainbows and butterflies. Despite no record whatsoever of bringing any opposing factions
together, even in the Senate.

The way I look at it is, Obama is the biggest project running, but his potential is off the wall.

Its like you've got three quarterbacks and the two other guy's have the numbers and the big names, and i don't know, maybe a spectacularly clutch finish in the rose bowl. While the other one is 6 foot 3, 233 pounds and entered the draft with much less publicity, but built up a huge fan base amongst scouts because of the way he wowed people with his arm... and maybe the way he played in the SEC? :strong: ROFL!

Seriously though, I think we are in such a mess that I can't see either of the other candidates lead us out the problems the country is facing. The presidents decisions are important but usually the technicals are dealt with by his advisors, the fact this guy could get enough people backing his programs so that CONgress can have some PROgress is pretty much what I'm banking on.

[baja]

I too think Obama has the best, no the only chance of righting the ship.

[Bronco Bob]

The way I look at it is, Obama is the biggest project running, but his potential is off the wall.

Its like you've got three quarterbacks and the two other guy's have the numbers and the big names, and i don't know, maybe a spectacularly clutch finish in the rose bowl. While the other one is 6 foot 3, 233 pounds and entered the draft with much less publicity, but built up a huge fan base amongst scouts because of the way he wowed people with his arm... and maybe the way he played in the SEC? :strong: ROFL!

Seriously though, I think we are in such a mess that I can't see either of the other candidates lead us out the problems the country is facing. The presidents decisions are important but usually the technicals are dealt with by his advisors, the fact this guy could get enough people backing his programs so that CONgress can have some PROgress is pretty much what I'm banking on.

Or he could be the next Michael Dukakis or Al Gore or John Kerry.
Or the next Jimmy Carter assuming he gets elected.

[Willynowei]

I too think Obama has the best, no the only chance of righting the ship.

We could only hope

[Willynowei]

Or he could be the next Michael Dukakis or Al Gore or John Kerry.
Or the next Jimmy Carter assuming he gets elected.

Maybe but he could also be the next FDR and I don't think you could say the same for the others.

And if Hilary dropped out after she lost Texas, he'd be a shoe in. Even still, I think just off McCain's stand on the Iraq war, Obama might be a shoe in. People want to punish the right, badly.

[cutthemdown]

Experience in politics just means you know whos palm to grease to get what you want done. Obama won't need that if he becomes as popular with the American people as I can see him being.

Really? because I think the more he talks the more white people don't like him.

[Willynowei]

Really? because I think the more he talks the more white people don't like him.

I think the polls show otherwise, where did you get that?

[ScottXray]

Well, I'm white, and the more I see and hear, the more I like Obama.

Of all the candidates (of the Dems and Republicans) he has run the smartest , best thought out, and best managed campaign, which indicates to me that he probably is a master politician and also has the possibility of being a statesman. He also has managed his campaign finaces better than the other two, which indicates he knows how to manage money better.

I believe that he is quite likely the most intelligent of the three, and probably will accomplish more than the others, because he seems to understand that business as usual is not what the public wants at this time. Getting a start on controlling the PACs influence is a good start. (assuming he can do that (unfortunately, its unlikely))

McCain has never seen a war he didn't like, and Clinton has predicated her whole life on being president some day. She is very calculating and I trust her very little because she is a POLITICIAN, to the core. McCains maverick status is a myth, as he'll promise anything to try to win a vote, then do just what his Base wants....continue the war, extend the tax cuts, and keep the
corporate sector happy.

Obama won't be able to mesmerize the congress into doing what he wants, but if he wins the presidency he'll also probably come in with a solid Dem majority in both houses, that will know that the public is going to want to see some action quickly. Clinton as President will probably have the same type of congress. McCain will have a Democratic congress that will exercise its power. Nothing he wants will be rubber stamped, so he might do the least damage, except on the supreme court.

Then again they are ALL used car salesmen, and what they are selling is what people want to hear.

Everyone of them is going to have to raise taxes. There is no way to get around that because the economy can't support any of the programs being batted around by all of them. Its just which candidate is going to hit our pocketbooks the hardest , vs business taxes, vs upper income, versus which group of people will benefit the most. Personally I'd prefer someone that will spend more money here at home, where we get some real benefit, versus some foreign battlefield finacial black hole.

[baja]

good post Scott

[cutthemdown]

I think the polls show otherwise, where did you get that?

From a ton of white people I have talked to. Like over 10 moderate repubs I knew that were leaning Obama, that now say no way I will have to vote McCain.

Many of them don't like McCain so at first the were all for Obama. Now most of them say they aren't feeling so good about Obama because of all these little things that might point to him being prejudiced against white people.

Anyone who thinks Obama isn't in real trouble politically hasn't followed politics very much.

[broncocalijohn]

;D i pulled a good one at the T/A in Baytown Texas , walked into the Chester fried chicken and said give me the Hillary Special .... The gal behind the counter had a puzzled look and asked what is that ? I said 2 large thighs and small breast ....

Spider, doesnt that special include one shot and one beer?

[broncofan7]

From a ton of white people I have talked to. Like over 10 moderate repubs I knew that were leaning Obama, that now say no way I will have to vote McCain.

Many of them don't like McCain so at first the were all for Obama. Now most of them say they aren't feeling so good about Obama because of all these little things that might point to him being prejudiced against white people.

Anyone who thinks Obama isn't in real trouble politically hasn't followed politics very much.

I too have noticed this trend among the people that I have spoken too who were very inclined and open to Obama (myself included) in the eary stages of these primaries. After having seen from his senate home page the link to his church LONG before th hoopla over REV Wright broke :

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.


Both my wife and I were taken aback at his church's mention of race however we did infact vote for him over Hillary in our home state's primary. Then the Rev Wright story broke and it began to make sense. He was a person who being half white, had to prove his 'blackness' to the local constituency to win election in his south Chicago neighborhood. In order to do this, he associated himself with a church that is radical in it's view in a racial sense---projecting many of that communities ills to being a causative effect of racism. To this end, he is not so different and calculating than Hillary(I feel as though everything she has done is to win votes, I do not feel as though she has any core beliefs that an opinion poll would not influence). Barack parlayed his relationship with a racist black church to political prominence in S. Chiago and now is parlaying his mastery of the english language and great rhetorical abilities to sway those outside of that enclave. More to the point of my post, I see the media coming around to this fact once Obama gets the nomination and that Mccain, for all of his faults, will wind up as our next president.

[footstepsfrom#27]

He was a person who being half white, had to prove his 'blackness' to the local constituency to win election in his south Chicago neighborhood. In order to do this, he associated himself with a church that is radical in it's view in a racial sense---projecting many of that communities ills to being a causative effect of racism.
The problem with this idiotic theory is that Obama was working in Chicago neighborhoods and attending his church a full decade before he ran for the Illinois senate. I guess you think he managed to get himself set up as the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review in order to run for the US Presidency too right?

Gimme a break...it's not like it's that tough to understand this stuff. Just use Google and a smidgen of common sense.

[broncofan7]

The problem with this idiotic theory is that Obama was working in Chicago neighborhoods and attending his church a full decade before he ran for the Illinois senate. I guess you think he managed to get himself set up as the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review in order to run for the US Presidency too right?

Gimme a break...it's not like it's that tough to understand this stuff. Just use Google and a smidgen of common sense.

Well, if we were to take your suggestion as truth, then he is even more sinister in that he actually believes/supports the racist tenor of his church which he attended for a "full decade before he ran for the Illinois senate." His academic accomplishments are certainly not a blemish in my eyes so why would I address his motives behind being a Harvard Law review editor when I am focusing on his faults/liabilities in regards to the tempered feelings that many of us are having about him now?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Well, if we were to take your suggestion as truth, then he is even more sinister in that he actually believes/supports the racist tenor of his church which he attended for a "full decade before he ran for the Illinois senate."
FIrst, it's not my "suggestion"...it's fact. Second, you're clearly unaware that a large number of black churches feature socially conscious, politically liberal, firebrand preachers. I guess in order to run for the presidency a black dude needs to go to the First Baptist Church of Suburbia right? This is just a load of crap designed to discredit the guy. What do you think he'd do in the White House, lobby congress for laws making whites sit on the back of the bus? Get real. Better yet...get educated about this stuff instead of tossing out random BS.

[broncofan7]

I am plainly aware that black institutions can be just as racist as some white separatist groups--espousing hateful and false ideas to perpetuate their delusions and justify their own inadequacies. It is ashame that some do it under the guise of a church. And do YOU not believe that the person who wants to be elected to represent ALL of us should also NOT be associated with a church who only caters to SOME of us........Amazing how open minded some people are when the bigotry comes from a 'minority' group espousing hate and blame to the 'majority'. If Barack had gone to a church that did not mention anything about race--as the church's that I have attended (Catholic by birth and as a child--non denominational BY CHOICE currently) also do not--then I would have a hard time believing that he would not be a good candidate to respresent ALL of us---but many of us DO have those reservations now. --I find it incredibly funny that you ask me to educate myself--- if you only knew........

[footstepsfrom#27]

I am plainly aware that black institutions can be just as racist as some white separatist groups--espousing hateful and false ideas to perpetuate their delusions and justify their own inadequacies.
Show me where Wright said anything derogatory about whites in his message. Wright's rant (a 60 second sound bite from a 30 year career) was directed agaisnt US foreign and domestic governmental policy, not white people. Numerous people have already testified that whites are welcome in his congregation. Since you've never been in his church I doubt you know squat about whether he's a racist or not. Nor does his mission statement define him as such; news flash dude...it's OK for black people to want to focus on their own community...it's obvious they're the only ones who are doing so...and you think this is equivilent to white supremacists huh?
It is ashame that some do it under the guise of a church. And do YOU not believe that the person who wants to be elected to represent ALL of us should also NOT be associated with a church who only caters to SOME of us........
As I said...whites are welcome in his church. His church sits smack dab in the middle of Chicago's black neighborhoods. Who do you think they're going to cater to...rich white suburbanites? How 'bout you use your head for something besides a hat rack.
Amazing how open minded some people are when the bigotry comes from a 'minority' group espousing hate and blame to the 'majority'. If Barack had gone to a church that did not mention anything about race--as the church's that I have attended (Catholic by birth and as a child--non denominational BY CHOICE currently) also do not--then I would have a hard time believing that he would not be a good candidate to respresent ALL of us---but many of us DO have those reservations now.
I get it...to be a good presidential candidate a black dude has to go to a church like yours...one that "did not mention anything about race". What planet are you living on? Do you honestly think black inner city churches have no reason to not work with these issues? From your sanctimonious cacoon in the burbs it's obvious your church had NO REASON to bring the subject up...because it doesn't TOUCH YOU. It's the height of arrogance and rank stupidity to think that the issues that are present in the inner city, many which have to do with race...should not be addressed by the churches that reside in those communities.
I find it incredibly funny that you ask me to educate myself--- if you only knew........
If I only knew what? You're 18 years old according to your profile...what you know about the world wouldn't fill a good sized thimble. Get back to me in 20 years when you've figured out how ignorant you truly are, because that's about how long it takes to realize what time it is. ROFL!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Gimme a break...it's not like it's that tough to understand this stuff. Just use Google and a smidgen of common sense.

You can't argue with willful ignorance, dude.

The rightards who are working the "Obama is a racist" smears couldn't care less about the facts and would prefer to avoid any sort of nuanced discussion of the issue.

They are just beta testing their RNC/Fox News sound bites.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Well, I'm white, and the more I see and hear, the more I like Obama.

Of all the candidates (of the Dems and Republicans) he has run the smartest , best thought out, and best managed campaign, which indicates to me that he probably is a master politician and also has the possibility of being a statesman. He also has managed his campaign finaces better than the other two, which indicates he knows how to manage money better.

I believe that he is quite likely the most intelligent of the three, and probably will accomplish more than the others, because he seems to understand that business as usual is not what the public wants at this time. Getting a start on controlling the PACs influence is a good start. (assuming he can do that (unfortunately, its unlikely))

McCain has never seen a war he didn't like, and Clinton has predicated her whole life on being president some day. She is very calculating and I trust her very little because she is a POLITICIAN, to the core. McCains maverick status is a myth, as he'll promise anything to try to win a vote, then do just what his Base wants....continue the war, extend the tax cuts, and keep the
corporate sector happy.

Obama won't be able to mesmerize the congress into doing what he wants, but if he wins the presidency he'll also probably come in with a solid Dem majority in both houses, that will know that the public is going to want to see some action quickly. Clinton as President will probably have the same type of congress. McCain will have a Democratic congress that will exercise its power. Nothing he wants will be rubber stamped, so he might do the least damage, except on the supreme court.

Then again they are ALL used car salesmen, and what they are selling is what people want to hear.

Everyone of them is going to have to raise taxes. There is no way to get around that because the economy can't support any of the programs being batted around by all of them. Its just which candidate is going to hit our pocketbooks the hardest , vs business taxes, vs upper income, versus which group of people will benefit the most. Personally I'd prefer someone that will spend more money here at home, where we get some real benefit, versus some foreign battlefield finacial black hole.

That's a pretty compelling argument, Scott.

Nice work! :thumbsup:

[footstepsfrom#27]

You can't argue with willful ignorance, dude.

The rightards who are working the "Obama is a racist" smears couldn't care less about the facts and would prefer to avoid any sort of nuanced discussion of the issue.

They are just beta testing their RNC/Fox News sound bites.
QFT

[cutthemdown]

Like we already said before Obama isn't a racist. He just made a big mistake letting some of his prejudices come out in his speach. My point was more that it hurt him with the middle of the road white voters. Super right going to vote McCain even though they don't like him. Super left going to vote Obama or Hilliary. It's always the people in the middle that they fight for.

Obama has made some big mistakes but they came so late it's hard for the Dems to lose that momentum. They want to think all this Rev Wright, people cling to guns and religion because they are bitter talk hasn't hurt him this bad. The media doesn't want to either. The dems will have to sail their boat and see if it floats in the general election.

For sure McCain has the age problem and a few gaffes of his own, but he rates really high when it comes to people trusting him. You have trust and an opponent who is black, has said some things prejudicial towards certain segments of the country, and you have a good chance.

[footstepsfrom#27]

For sure McCain has the age problem and a few gaffes of his own, but he rates really high when it comes to people trusting him. You have trust and an opponent who is black, has said some things prejudicial towards certain segments of the country, and you have a good chance.
McCain has a long paper trail of corruption. See the Keating Five scandal for an example. Trust is easy to come by when nobody's focusing their attention on you. Wait till the general election gets here.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

As soon as the Dem nomination is sewn up, the "liberal" media will commence covering McCain's trail just like it did for Dim Son in 2000 and 2004, I fear.

[yavoon]

I am plainly aware that black institutions can be just as racist as some white separatist groups--espousing hateful and false ideas to perpetuate their delusions and justify their own inadequacies. It is ashame that some do it under the guise of a church. And do YOU not believe that the person who wants to be elected to represent ALL of us should also NOT be associated with a church who only caters to SOME of us........Amazing how open minded some people are when the bigotry comes from a 'minority' group espousing hate and blame to the 'majority'. If Barack had gone to a church that did not mention anything about race--as the church's that I have attended (Catholic by birth and as a child--non denominational BY CHOICE currently) also do not--then I would have a hard time believing that he would not be a good candidate to respresent ALL of us---but many of us DO have those reservations now. --I find it incredibly funny that you ask me to educate myself--- if you only knew........

you're not gna get anywhere man. most ppl on the left agree with the majority of what wright said and are equal parts pissed that some ppl might criticize it and pissed that "the truth" could be used to hurt their messiah. now shutup and sing god damn america.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

you're not gna get anywhere man. most ppl on the left agree with the majority of what wright said and are equal parts pissed that some ppl might criticize it and pissed that "the truth" could be used to hurt their messiah. now shutup and sing god damn america.

ROFL!

You're so far gone on the neocon Kool-Aid that you don't realize many of the folks with whom you're arguing on this thread are anything but "lefties."

http://www.bartcop.com/the-iraq-torch.jpg

[broncofan7]

Show me where Wright said anything derogatory about whites in his message. Wright's rant (a 60 second sound bite from a 30 year career) was directed agaisnt US foreign and domestic governmental policy, not white people. Numerous people have already testified that whites are welcome in his congregation. Since you've never been in his church I doubt you know squat about whether he's a racist or not. Nor does his mission statement define him as such; news flash dude...it's OK for black people to want to focus on their own community...it's obvious they're the only ones who are doing so...and you think this is equivilent to white supremacists huh?

As I said...whites are welcome in his church. His church sits smack dab in the middle of Chicago's black neighborhoods. Who do you think they're going to cater to...rich white suburbanites? How 'bout you use your head for something besides a hat rack.

I get it...to be a good presidential candidate a black dude has to go to a church like yours...one that "did not mention anything about race". What planet are you living on? Do you honestly think black inner city churches have no reason to not work with these issues? From your sanctimonious cacoon in the burbs it's obvious your church had NO REASON to bring the subject up...because it doesn't TOUCH YOU. It's the height of arrogance and rank stupidity to think that the issues that are present in the inner city, many which have to do with race...should not be addressed by the churches that reside in those communities.

If I only knew what? You're 18 years old according to your profile...what you know about the world wouldn't fill a good sized thimble. Get back to me in 20 years when you've figured out how ignorant you truly are, because that's about how long it takes to realize what time it is. ROFL!

For you to suggest that US foreign policy is not and WAS not (Wright cited ther bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki among other things) directed by 'white people' is plainly disingenuous. The churches that I have attended are infact integrated and you are correct there is no mention of race at the churches that I attend because we are there to celebrate GOD---and not to make political statements. Those churches that do take political stances both publicly and privately need to have their tax exempt status revoked. Whites are welcome at Obama's church? Well blacks are welcome at a Clan rally too--but not for positive reasons---what person in their right mind would want to attend a function where their sole being is the focus of that group's animosity and angst? His church's mission statement makes the DISTINCTION that their congregation is 'Unashamedly Black' ---there is no reason to address race when the purpose of a church is to celebrate God and help people to recognize God's greatness and to inspire people by the story of God--What is the church implying by making the above statement in your opinion? To be a good presidential candidate IMHO, a person does not even have to attend church at all, but if they do, I certainly do not want them to attend a church that within their mission statement makes any mention to RACE or Gender or sexual orientation. I live in the burbs now after growing up around section 8 housing in the northeast USA---I grew up in a very diverse community so for you to imply that the issue of POVERTY/EDUCATION --because that is REALLY what the main issue is in the inner cities, not RACE, does not touch me is , inherently false as I worked my way up from humble beginnings to live in the BURBS (BTW--come to Frisco--it is full of affluent people of ALL races--Indian, Asian, Latino, White AND BLACK--amazing huh?). My whole point in posting in this thread is that many of us "whites" who were very open and supportive of Obama initially, are not going to support him in the general election largely because of his association with a 'racially aware' church that is in fact a front and support group for a group of people who happen to hold their own misfortunes as a casuative effect to actions of the 'ruling class' of the USA --IE Whites. I guess we will see if I am right come November

[baja]

And to think we are gonna do this until November.

[footstepsfrom#27]

For you to suggest that US foreign policy is not and WAS not (Wright cited ther bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki among other things) directed by 'white people' is plainly disingenuous.
So any criticism of US governmental policy is a direct attack on white people? Glad you cleared that up for me. I thought maybe he was simply railing against what he considered institutional/political oppression by a government that ignored it's own constitution for almost 200 years. Now I realize he was indicting whitey in the burbs when he spoke about the historical record of the US government.

Brillilant.
The churches that I have attended are infact integrated and you are correct there is no mention of race at the churches that I attend because we are there to celebrate GOD---and not to make political statements. Those churches that do take political stances both publicly and privately need to have their tax exempt status revoked.
You're so right. Revoke any black congregation's tax exempt status if they dare speak up about what is clearly a MORAL issue. In fact revoke their tax exempt status even if they speak of it PRIVATELY as well. That's a GREAT IDEA! Let's plant government censors in the congregation like they did in the old Iron Curtain countries so we'll know what they're saying.

Are you insane? You do realize that the history of racism from slavery to modern inequities that have left indellible marks on millions of people is in fact a MORAL issue right? Churches frequently address MORAL issues do they not? Or do you think that because this doesn't fall within the narrow categories of what you and your little congregation consider "morality", that it's fuel for new political persecution by the government? I guess the treatment of people doesn't constitute a MORAL issue does it?

Unbelievable. You're downright frightening.
To be a good presidential candidate IMHO, a person does not even have to attend church at all, but if they do, I certainly do not want them to attend a church that within their mission statement makes any mention to RACE or Gender or sexual orientation.
Yeah...the Bible says nothing about "sexual orientation" (homosexuality) does it? Of course not...so I guess a church that considers homosexuality a MORAL issue should also have their tax exempt status revoked...right? Who are you to tell a body of believers what kind of social or moral issues they're allowed to consider into their mission objectives?
I live in the burbs now after growing up around section 8 housing in the northeast USA---I grew up in a very diverse community so for you to imply that the issue of POVERTY/EDUCATION --because that is REALLY what the main issue is in the inner cities, not RACE, does not touch me is , inherently false as I worked my way up from humble beginnings to live in the BURBS (BTW--come to Frisco--it is full of affluent people of ALL races--Indian, Asian, Latino, White AND BLACK--amazing huh?).
Only an absolute fool could travel through the urban sewers we call the inner cities in this country and not intuitively grasp that race is a HUGE issue there. If you live in Frisco Texas and you fail to understand the long and torturous history of racial politics in Dallas you're a bigger nitwit than Bafoon is. Take a drive outside your comfortable Frisco surroundings and travel 30 miles south down I-35 to South Dallas and pull off the freeway along the way once you cross the Trinity River. If you can't see this you're spiritually blind. The entire political structure of this city has been built on racial politics, and it's reflected everywhere from the filthy streets to the dilapidated schools in this town's southern sector. Even the city government with its power play by white mayors to cancel voting strength south of the Trinity, the so-called "strong mayor" power grab that voters defeted two years ago...it ALL has to do with race here. Since you said you grew up in the northeast you apparently don't know anything about this town your living in now. Educate yourself about where you're living for Pete's sake. And as far as you "working your way up from humble beginnings"...when did you do that? You're 18...how much time have you had to "work your way up" from anything? What you mean is your mom and dad moved to the burbs and now you got a job at the mall right?
My whole point in posting in this thread is that many of us "whites" who were very open and supportive of Obama initially, are not going to support him in the general election largely because of his association with a 'racially aware' church that is in fact a front and support group for a group of people who happen to hold their own misfortunes as a casuative effect to actions of the 'ruling class' of the USA --IE Whites. I guess we will see if I am right come November
Right...white have never been the ruling class in this country. What could possibly give anyone that idea? Hilarious!

[broncofan7]

So any criticism of US governmental policy is a direct attack on white people? Glad you cleared that up for me. I thought maybe he was simply railing against what he considered institutional/political oppression by a government that ignored it's own constitution for almost 200 years. Now I realize he was indicting whitey in the burbs when he spoke about the historical record of the US government.

Brillilant.

You're so right. Revoke any black congregation's tax exempt status if they dare speak up about what is clearly a MORAL issue. In fact revoke their tax exempt status even if they speak of it PRIVATELY as well. That's a GREAT IDEA! Let's plant government censors in the congregation like they did in the old Iron Curtain countries so we'll know what they're saying.

Are you insane? You do realize that the history of racism from slavery to modern inequities that have left indellible marks on millions of people is in fact a MORAL issue right? Churches frequently address MORAL issues do they not? Or do you think that because this doesn't fall within the narrow categories of what you and your little congregation consider "morality", that it's fuel for new political persecution by the government? I guess the treatment of people doesn't constitute a MORAL issue does it?

Unbelievable. You're downright frightening.

Yeah...the Bible says nothing about "sexual orientation" (homosexuality) does it? Of course not...so I guess a church that considers homosexuality a MORAL issue should also have their tax exempt status revoked...right? Who are you to tell a body of believers what kind of social or moral issues they're allowed to consider into their mission objectives?

Only an absolute fool could travel through the urban sewers we call the inner cities in this country and not intuitively grasp that race is a HUGE issue there. If you live in Frisco Texas and you fail to understand the long and torturous history of racial politics in Dallas you're a bigger nitwit than Bafoon is. Take a drive outside your comfortable Frisco surroundings and travel 30 miles south down I-35 to South Dallas and pull off the freeway along the way once you cross the Trinity River. If you can't see this you're spiritually blind. The entire political structure of this city has been built on racial politics, and it's reflected everywhere from the filthy streets to the dilapidated schools in this town's southern sector. Even the city government with its power play by white mayors to cancel voting strength south of the Trinity, the so-called "strong mayor" power grab that voters defeted two years ago...it ALL has to do with race here. Since you said you grew up in the northeast you apparently don't know anything about this town your living in now. Educate yourself about where you're living for Pete's sake. And as far as you "working your way up from humble beginnings"...when did you do that? You're 18...how much time have you had to "work your way up" from anything? What you mean is your mom and dad moved to the burbs and now you got a job at the mall right?

Right...white have never been the ruling class in this country. What could possibly give anyone that idea? Hilarious!

In my above passages, I explained to you why Obama has lost the middle of the road 'white vote'---if you are too narrow minded to accept that this may in fact be true--go ahead and waste your time and vote in your support for Obama--then PM me after the election and apologize for not being as "edumucated' as you attempt to make yourself out to be....if you'd like to create a thread to discuss what is ailing the African american community---I will be happy participate in that--

[footstepsfrom#27]

In my above passages, I explained to you why Obama has lost the middle of the road 'white vote'---if you are too narrow minded to accept that this may in fact be true--go ahead and waste your time and vote in your support for Obama--then PM me after the election and apologize for not being as "edumucated' as you attempt to make yourself out to be....if you'd like to create a thread to discuss what is ailing the African american community---I will be happy participate in that--
The newest polls coming in from PA and NC show that his comments had no imact and NATIONALLY he's now stronger than ever: http://www.411mania.com/politics/columns/73231/New-PA-Polls,-National-Polls-Show-No-%5C%5CBitter%5C%5C-Bounce-For-Clinton.htm Observe:

Meanwhile, Barack Obama is in the strongest position he has EVER been nationally. Today's Gallup tracking poll shows him opening up a 51% to 40% lead over Clinton, his biggest lead ever, and showing that his recent "bitter" comments have had no impact on the national electorate thus far

The more you speak, the dumber you look.

Now tell me again how you pulled yourself up by your bootstaps and worked your way into middle class America with your paper route and your lemonade stand.

[broncofan7]

The newest polls coming in from PA and NC show that his comments had no imact and NATIONALLY he's now stronger than ever: http://www.411mania.com/politics/columns/73231/New-PA-Polls,-National-Polls-Show-No-%5C%5CBitter%5C%5C-Bounce-For-Clinton.htm Observe:

Meanwhile, Barack Obama is in the strongest position he has EVER been nationally. Today's Gallup tracking poll shows him opening up a 51% to 40% lead over Clinton, his biggest lead ever, and showing that his recent "bitter" comments have had no impact on the national electorate thus far

The more you speak, the dumber you look.

Now tell me again how you pulled yourself up by your bootstaps and worked your way into middle class America with your paper route and your lemonade stand.


You imbecile---the poll you cited is a poll that ranks him against Hillary Clinton , not John Mccain. I am making the point that the fallout from the democratic primary is that he has lost middle of the road white voters such as myself for the General election because of his association with race baters such as REV Wright and the aforementioned church which he attended "for ten years before deciding to run for the senate...." Again get back on point--tell me why you believe that Barack Obama can win middle of the road white voters such as myself...I have already explained to you why he has lost us........and I Guarantee YOU that he loses PA--not that I care.

[footstepsfrom#27]

You imbecile---the poll you cited is a poll that ranks him against Hillary Clinton , not John Mccain. I am making the point that the fallout from the democratic primary is that he has lost middle of the road white voters such as myself for the General election because of his association with race baters such as REV Wright and the aforementioned church which he attended "for ten years before deciding to run for the senate...." Again get back on point--tell me why you believe that Barack Obama can win middle of the road white voters such as myself...I have already explained to you why he has lost us........and I Guarantee YOU that he loses PA--not that I care.
Simpleton...don't you get it? The average "middle of the road white voter" is considerably smarter than you are.

BTW...Hillary should have benefitted from any fallout over Obama's remarks...she hasn't.

[broncofan7]

Simpleton...don't you get it? The average "middle of the road white voter" is considerably smarter than you are.

BTW...Hillary should have benefitted from any fallout over Obama's remarks...she hasn't.

Simpleton--I live in Frisco--you live in Arlington--median income of Frisco again? oh yeah.....Again, explain to me how Obama is going to be able to win over middle of the road white people with the baggage that has come out thanks to Hillary prolonging the inevitable of Obama getting the DEM nomination?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Simpleton--I live in Frisco--you live in Arlington--median income of Frisco again? oh yeah.....
You live at home with your parents...or are you trying to tell me you own a home in Frisco at age 18? I know the minimum wage just went up and predatory lending with sub prime loans has run rampant but let's not go totally stupid here OK?
Again, explain to me how Obama is going to be able to win over middle of the road white people with the baggage that has come out thanks to Hillary prolonging the inevitable of Obama getting the DEM nomination?
I just explained it to you. You're not very bright. You think this idiocy has substance to it and the "middle of the road white voter" isn't voting in their first election like you are. In actual fact, your demographic is not "middle of the road white voters"...it's another group...YOUNG voters, and those are going for Obama big time.

Stop pretending you're an adult or know something about trends in elections when this is your first time to vote. You've been discovered. If you don't want people to think you're a kid don't post your age in your profile and it will help if you have something halfway intelligent to say. It will also help if you don't try to convince me you own your own house in Frisco because you "worked your way up" out of poverty.

Join Date: 08-27-2007
PostsTotal Posts: 312 (1.33 posts per day)
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(Last Note: 11-04-2007 07:24 PM)

Date of Birth:
January 1, 1990
Age:
18
Avatar Tag Line:
Italian-Stallion
Adopt-A-Bronco:
Tony Scheffler
Location:
Frisco, TX
Interests:
driving 30mph in a 25mph speedzone
Biography:
I like PO-TA-TOES :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[broncofan7]

Proving yet again your lack of intellect and an ability to decipher things without having them spelled out for you in it's entirety, I think it is rather obvious to anyone of even AVERAGE intellect that I am obviously not 18 but rather an accomplished person who happens to be in my early 30's who is fortunate enough today to have a VERY light schedule so I have the opportunity of enlightening you on the subject of Why OBAMA WILL NOT WIN IN THE FALL. You still have not told me how he will win the middle of the road white vote who will go overwhelmingly to McCain if for no other reason than McCain is a 'safe' vote. Please explain to me how he will win PA as well........Financial analyst? LOL---Are you that customer service guy I call at BofA when I get a $13,000 check and deposit it and it doesn't clear immediately and I have to explain to you to look at my last few month's statements? well, I have spoken to you 4 times in 2008, don't make me have to call you again........

[TailgateNut]

Proving yet again your lack of intellect and an ability to decipher things without having them spelled out for you in it's entirety, I think it is rather obvious to anyone of even AVERAGE intellect that I am obviously not 18 but rather an accomplished person who happens to be in my early 30's who is fortunate enough today to have a VERY light schedule so I have the opportunity of enlightening you on the subject of Why OBAMA WILL NOT WIN IN THE FALL. You still have not told me how he will win the middle of the road white vote who will go overwhelmingly to McCain if for no other reason than McCain is a 'safe' vote. Please explain to me how he will win PA as well........Financial analyst? LOL---Are you that customer service guy I call at BofA when I get a $13,000 check and deposit it and it doesn't clear immediately and I have to explain to you to look at my last few month's statements? well, I have spoken to you 4 times in 2008, don't make me have to call you again........


:rofl: Pat yourself on the back much?

[broncofan7]

:rofl: Pat yourself on the back much?

LOL-only when encountering douche bags such as him do I feel it necessary to point to the scoreboard....It makes it worse that he is a Bronco fan to boot........

[footstepsfrom#27]

Proving yet again your lack of intellect and an ability to decipher things without having them spelled out for you in it's entirety, I think it is rather obvious to anyone of even AVERAGE intellect that I am obviously not 18 but rather an accomplished person who happens to be in my early 30's...
To late for that BS now...you've been outed dude. Don't you have some homework to do or something?
Financial analyst? LOL---Are you that customer service guy I call at BofA when I get a $13,000 check and deposit it and it doesn't clear immediately and I have to explain to you to look at my last few month's statements? well, I have spoken to you 4 times in 2008, don't make me have to call you again........
Yeah I can tell you're a genius allright. Ask your school guidance counselor what a financial analyst is.

I think your mom is calling you to come clean up your room now.

[TailgateNut]

LOL-only when encountering douche bags such as him do I feel it necessary to point to the scoreboard....It makes it worse that he is a Bronco fan to boot........

Looking at your profile and then reading about your "dream world" raises some questions about your credibility and honesty.

[broncofan7]

'dreams world'?--sorry, to what are you referring? and honestly--whether I was a homeless man who stumbled into the local library and jumped online or a physician working for the 2nd Largest PBM in the USA and moonlighting on my weekends, my point that Obama will not win in November b/c he will not get the middle of the road white vote is a valid one--that is what is great about the message boards--people are judgednot based upon how they look or what they do--but by the merits of their arguments and footsteps27 still cannot refute my point that when it comes down to it--those people will vote for the white male in the November

[footstepsfrom#27]

Looking at your profile and then reading about your "dream world" raises some questions about your credibility and honesty.
To say the least. :spit:

[TailgateNut]

'dreams world'?--sorry to what are you referring?


Sorry about the spelling error. DREAM WORLD!

You are an 18 YO who has managed to also be in his mid 30s. Kind of confusing (or maybe just someone who is just FOS).


Which one is it?

[baja]

Proving yet again your lack of intellect and an ability to decipher things without having them spelled out for you in it's entirety, I think it is rather obvious to anyone of even AVERAGE intellect that I am obviously not 18 but rather an accomplished person who happens to be in my early 30's who is fortunate enough today to have a VERY light schedule so I have the opportunity of enlightening you on the subject of Why OBAMA WILL NOT WIN IN THE FALL. You still have not told me how he will win the middle of the road white vote who will go overwhelmingly to McCain if for no other reason than McCain is a 'safe' vote. Please explain to me how he will win PA as well........Financial analyst? LOL---Are you that customer service guy I call at BofA when I get a $13,000 check and deposit it and it doesn't clear immediately and I have to explain to you to look at my last few month's statements? well, I have spoken to you 4 times in 2008, don't make me have to call you again........

Funny B of A always credits my account instantly with every check I deposit even ones larger that $13,000 because of the type of accounts I have and the relationship I have had over the years with BoA.

I think you need to tie a savings account and money market fund to that checking account Mr. Big Deal.

[broncofan7]

Funny B of A always credits my account instantly with every check I deposit even ones larger that $13,000 because of the type of accounts I have and the relationship I have had over the years with BoA.

I think you need to tie a savings account and money market fund to that checking account Mr. Big Deal.

Is this coming from the guy who in other threads has posted items such as --moving to mexico to live off of the land, etc---laughable indeed. SO are you going to add your 2 cents to the central point of this discussion--or are you simply going to question my credibility instead of Barack's electibility?

[baja]

Is this coming from the guy who in other threads has posted items such as --moving to mexico to live off of the land, etc---laughable indeed. SO are you going to add your 2 cents to the central point of this discussion--or are you simply going to question my credibility instead of Barack's electibility?

Just because i spend a lot of time in Baja does not mean I do not have financial dealings in the USA. I am amazed at how provincial some of you guys tend to be. Although it is true I have not deposited a check in many years, I use wire transfers but when I did deposit checks they were handled in the way i stated. The only reason I posted at all is because in your attempt to impress you exposed your nativity.

[broncofan7]

Just because i spend a lot of time in Baja does not mean I do not have financial dealings in the USA. I am amazed at how provincial some of you guys tend to be. Although it is true I have not deposited a check in many years, I use wire transfers but when I did deposit checks they were handled in the way i stated. The only reason I posted at all is because in your attempt to impress you exposed your nativity.

My gosh---my naivety? Geez--I would PM you my license info---if I didn't think you were a complete and utter sociopath.

[baja]

OK Italian Stallion what ever you say.

Oh and keep thinking I'm a sociopath, I like it that way.

[baja]

My gosh---my naivety? Geez--I would PM you my license info---if I didn't think you were a complete and utter sociopath.

Well I hope you don't have to call your underlings at the bank 4 times again next month to instruct them on just who you are.

[broncofan7]

OK Italian Stallion what ever you say.

Oh and keep thinking I'm a sociopath, I like it that way.

http://denver.fbi.gov/cyber.htm

Please --turn yourself in before anyone else gets hurt.....

[baja]

So you're accusing me of being a child molester. You really know how to start out in a new forum don't you. Tell me do you get beat up a lot?

[broncofan7]

So you're accusing me of being a child molester. You really know how to start out in a new forum don't you. Tell me do you get beat up a lot?

no--you are guilty of terroristic threatening--the online equivalent of yelling "fire!" in a movie theater. How you are not banned is beyond me.

[baja]

Ha ha congrats you just made my ignore list.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You live at home with your parents...or are you trying to tell me you own a home in Frisco at age 18? I know the minimum wage just went up and predatory lending with sub prime loans has run rampant but let's not go totally stupid here OK?

I just explained it to you. You're not very bright. You think this idiocy has substance to it and the "middle of the road white voter" isn't voting in their first election like you are. In actual fact, your demographic is not "middle of the road white voters"...it's another group...YOUNG voters, and those are going for Obama big time.

Stop pretending you're an adult or know something about trends in elections when this is your first time to vote. You've been discovered. If you don't want people to think you're a kid don't post your age in your profile and it will help if you have something halfway intelligent to say. It will also help if you don't try to convince me you own your own house in Frisco because you "worked your way up" out of poverty.

Join Date: 08-27-2007
PostsTotal Posts: 312 (1.33 posts per day)
Find all posts by broncofan7
Find all threads started by broncofan7

User Notes: 1 [View] [Post User Note]
(Last Note: 11-04-2007 07:24 PM)

Date of Birth:
January 1, 1990
Age:
18
Avatar Tag Line:
Italian-Stallion
Adopt-A-Bronco:
Tony Scheffler
Location:
Frisco, TX
Interests:
driving 30mph in a 25mph speedzone
Biography:
I like PO-TA-TOES :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8697/36893112owned59dj.jpg

[cutthemdown]

And to think we are gonna do this until November.

Once again people are divided into two camps just like they want. Once again media has us focusing on issues that don't matter. Once again people think the Choice between Obama and McCain is all that different. It may seem different on the surface but down deep every DC politician has the same goal. That goal is to get power and keep it.

The biggest issues IMO are:

Spending- It has to be cut. Not just in one area but across the board. This was Bush's biggest failure. He spent like a Democrat with a gold card.

Taxing- It has to be less so we can support ourselves.

Energy- We should be pumping oil from every well we can find. North Dakota is sitting on so much shale oil we can get to for 60 bucks a barrel. We should build a few more hundred Nuclear power plants.

Transportation. The countries infrastructure is falling apart. We need High Speed Rail going to all the big cities and ports. We need people in congested cities a way to get to work faster. Too much lost productivity.

Immigration. We need to find a balance between cheap labor and a secure border. We need a worker program for at least the agriculture industry. We need to secure our borders.

Security. It is important but really we are pretty safe here in the USA. If one attack here and there is as much as they can send our way then it won't bring us down. The ports need better security though.

War. Really I don't see this as a huge problem. We have control of Iraq even though it's in chaos. The Persian gulf is open for shipping and i don't see it changing anytime soon. The main issue IMO is getting the Iraqi Oil money spent on Iraq. I read some of that is being allocated just seems like 5 yrs too late. The next President needs to put a firm grasp on where that money goes to.

Healthcare I'm not sure about how to cover people, but I know too many mistakes being made in hospitals with the only real winners being the lawyers. About half the work the law firm my brother works at is spent defending hospitals from all the mistakes they make.

Instead we get left arguing about racism, guns, family values. Rehashing the same junk every four years is getting old. I don't really think McCain is a good choice. I know Hilliary isn't. Obama I have some serious reservations on.

Do we need to make President a 2-3 million dollar a yr job? It really seems like the job just isn't worth it. If I had my choice I would pick fat cat senator over being President any day.

[TailgateNut]

no--you are guilty of terroristic threatening--the online equivalent of yelling "fire!" in a movie theater. How you are not banned is beyond me.


WTF are you yammering about (or did I miss something)?

Sometimes I wonder how we (the OM) attract such a high percentage of kooks.

[TailgateNut]

'dreams world'?--sorry, to what are you referring? and honestly--whether I was a homeless man who stumbled into the local library and jumped online or a physician working for the 2nd Largest PBM in the USA and moonlighting on my weekends, my point that Obama will not win in November b/c he will not get the middle of the road white vote is a valid one--that is what is great about the message boards--people are judgednot based upon how they look or what they do--but by the merits of their arguments and footsteps27 still cannot refute my point that when it comes down to it--those people will vote for the white male in the November


Maybe you should slow down a tad and think before responding. It may reduce the amount of posts you'll need to edit after reading responses to your posts.

[footstepsfrom#27]

WTF are you yammering about (or did I miss something)?

Sometimes I wonder how we (the OM) attract such a high percentage of kooks.
LOL...hammer meet nail...that was some bizarre stuff.

Originally Posted by broncofan7
footsteps27 still cannot refute my point that when it comes down to it--those people will vote for the white male in the November
You silly twit. There's nothing to "refute". You've presented no factual data that requires me to "prove" or "disprove" anything, merely you're opinion, one probably hatched in 3rd period social studies. A black guy might find it tough to get white votes? That's truly shocking information you're giving us...never thought of it that way.

If you must have an answer, consider mine to be that while there are still plenty of racists out there, there are also enough "white middle of the road" voters who are considerably smarter than a ninny like you and perceive this for what it is...media BS that only the impressionable and intellectually lazy will think is relevant.

[TailgateNut]

I'm still trying to figure out what he hopes to accomplish by polishing his persona.

Let's review.

He's well off.
He's well built.ROFL!
He can bench 245 or 300 something depending on the post.:strong:
He has a "pretty" car.:~ohyah!:
He's 18 (no, he's 30):clown:

I personally think he has some serious racist issues. Just look at his responses in the Jenna thread.

Racism is alive and well in his closed mind.

[baja]

LOL...hammer meet nail...that was some bizarre stuff.


You silly twit. There's nothing to "refute". You've presented no factual data that requires me to "prove" or "disprove" anything, merely you're opinion, one probably hatched in 3rd period social studies. A black guy might find it tough to get white votes? That's truly shocking information you're giving us...never thought of it that way.

If you must have an answer, consider mine to be that while there are still plenty of racists out there,<b> there are also enough "white middle of the road" voters who are considerably smarter than a ninny like you and perceive this for what it is...media BS that only the impressionable and intellectually lazy will think is relevant.

Frankly this is what concerns me I really don't know what white middle America looks like these days. I admit I am really out of touch with that world.

[TailgateNut]

Frankly this is what concerns me I really don't know what white middle America looks like these days. I admit I am really out of touch with that world.


I really believe that the norm isn't as etched in stone as it has been in the past, but those who only see the color of a persons skin still exist, as do those who base their votes on a single issue.

We have yet to find a cure for stupidity.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You silly twit. There's nothing to "refute". You've presented no factual data that requires me to "prove" or "disprove" anything, merely you're opinion, one probably hatched in 3rd period social studies. A black guy might find it tough to get white votes? That's truly shocking information you're giving us...never thought of it that way.

If you must have an answer, consider mine to be that while there are still plenty of racists out there, there are also enough "white middle of the road" voters who are considerably smarter than a ninny like you and perceive this for what it is...media BS that only the impressionable and intellectually lazy will think is relevant.

"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common.
Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts
to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to
be one of the facts that needs altering."

- Doctor Who, "Face of Evil"

[broncofan7]

Again--none of you will tell me why Obama will win in November--I told you why he will not win the middle-of the road white vote which is imperative since WE are the most active voting block--say he gets 90% of the black vote--13% of the population--it will be a 'drop in the bucket'--I agree that there are people out there who are close minded and would never vote for a person of a different race or religion or maybe even gender and those people may in fact be motivated to vote against that person--but that further illustrates why Obama cannot win ---Barack will not even win PA this Tuesday---and I will call all 4 of you out on WED morning....and in November as well.

And the reason I like to scoreboard many of the trolls and their 30,000 posts, 29,000 of which are worthless babble as cited by the other posts in this thread, is because they tend to get off of topic and turn personal--if they want to question my argument fine, question it, but once they question the poster--I have accomplished more in my years of existence than 95% of the people on here (excpetions,BroncoBuff and maybe a few others) and it is apparent that when I post the fact that I work out 6 days per week, make in upwards of middle six figures and have a medical degree and work for a large PBM--(hence I do not typically have time to post 300 messages a day) the venom that come from you trolls who I honestly hope are not capable of reproducing is amusing at best. It will be a sad and sickening day when the sentiment expressed by the likes of Rev Wright is accepted as easily as those on this board would like to think it should be

[broncofan7]

LOL...hammer meet nail...that was some bizarre stuff.


You silly twit. There's nothing to "refute". You've presented no factual data that requires me to "prove" or "disprove" anything, merely you're opinion, one probably hatched in 3rd period social studies. A black guy might find it tough to get white votes? That's truly shocking information you're giving us...never thought of it that way.

If you must have an answer, consider mine to be that while there are still plenty of racists out there, there are also enough "white middle of the road" voters who are considerably smarter than a ninny like you and perceive this for what it is...media BS that only the impressionable and intellectually lazy will think is relevant.

what I find amazing is that you forget--I VOTED FOR OBAMA in THE TX PRIMARY--I WAS A SUPPORTER OF HIS UNTIL THE REV WRIGHT SCANDAL BROKE. We do not need or want a president who is 'racially aware' or chooses to surround himself in his personal life with race-baters. an to be honest---the DEM primary has not been a TRUE test for Obama--or Hillary for that Matter, b/c there was not a VIABLE WHITE MALE in the race against them--spare me John Edwards.

Obama's relationship to REV wright is tantamount to McCain having a intimate personal relationship with www.amren.com leader Jared Taylor--and spare me the comparison that Rev Wirght was a Pastor a man of GOD! --He is anything but--he is simply a race bater cloaked in the cloth

[baja]

Again--none of you will tell me why Obama will win in November--I told you why he will not win the middle-of the road white vote which is imperative since WE are the most active voting block--say he gets 90% of the black vote--13% of the population--it will be a 'drop in the bucket'--I agree that there are people out there who are close minded and would never vote for a person of a different race or religion or maybe even gender and those people may in fact be motivated to vote against that person--but that further illustrates why Obama cannot win ---Barack will not even win PA this Tuesday---and I will call all 4 of you out on WED morning....and in November as well.

And the reason I like to scoreboard many of the trolls and their 30,000 posts, 29,000 of which are worthless babble as cited by the other posts in this thread, is because they tend to get off of topic and turn personal--if they want to question my argument fine, question it, but once they question the poster--I have accomplished more in my years of existence than 95% of the people on here (excpetions,BroncoBuff and maybe a few others) and it is apparent that when I post the fact that I work out 6 days per week, make in upwards of middle six figures and have a medical degree and work for a large PBM--(hence I do not typically have time to post 300 messages a day) the venom that come from you trolls who I honestly hope are not capable of reproducing is amusing at best. It will be a sad and sickening day when the sentiment expressed by the likes of Rev Wright is accepted as easily as those on this board would like to think it should be

<B>nar·cis·sism (närs-szm) or nar·cism (närszm)
n.
1. Excessive love or admiration of oneself.
2. A psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem.
3. Erotic pleasure derived from contemplation or admiration of one's own body or self, especially as a fixation on or a regression to an infantile stage of development.
4. The attribute of the human psyche characterized by admiration of oneself but within normal limits.</b>

[theAPAOps5]

I find it funny that broncofan7 alway, ALWAYS, turns his argument to I make a boat load of money and workout. Thats nothing special but yet its his only retort.

[broncofan7]

<B>nar·cis·sism (närs-szm) or nar·cism (närszm)
n.
1. Excessive love or admiration of oneself.
2. A psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem.
3. Erotic pleasure derived from contemplation or admiration of one's own body or self, especially as a fixation on or a regression to an infantile stage of development.
4. The attribute of the human psyche characterized by admiration of oneself but within normal limits.</b>

Funny, I thought I was on your ignore list? Are you open to some enlightenment? Good--turn off your computer and turn yourself in to your local police dept

[baja]

Funny, I thought I was on your ignore list? Are you open to some enlightenment? Good--turn off your computer and turn yourself in to your local police dept

My mental image of this poster;


http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/71c1e6eea7_042806limbaugh.jpg

[broncofan7]

I find it funny that broncofan7 alway, ALWAYS, turns his argument to I make a boat load of money and workout. Thats nothing special but yet its his only retort.

I find it funny, that you fail to see (AGAIN) that I did not begin addressing PERSONAL ISSUES until multiple and repeated references to me 1) being in grade school 2) living with mommy and daddy 3) my lemonade stand etc., etc--I always let the other posters get perosnl before I call them on their relative personal insignificance that is VERY overblown by their consistent and endless tripe that occurs everyday on this very board.

what's that? some examples you say?

from footsteps: "Just use Google and a smidgen of common sense", "Better yet...get educated about this stuff instead of tossing out random BS", "Who do you think they're going to cater to...rich white suburbanites? How 'bout you use your head for something besides a hat rack."If I only knew what? You're 18 years old according to your profile...what you know about the world wouldn't fill a good sized thimble. Get back to me in 20 years when you've figured out how ignorant you truly are, because that's about how long it takes to realize what time it is. "

From tailgatenut--- instead of writing something contructive and adresseing the topic they write--- "Pat yourself on the back much?" "Looking at your profile and then reading about your "dream world" raises some questions about your credibility and honesty" and "WTF are you yammering about (or did I miss something)?

Sometimes I wonder how we (the OM) attract such a high percentage of kooks."

The only person who has argued against my point in a mature manner is LA Broncofan--and he is someone who I can respect and I would never call scoreboard on

[broncofan7]

My mental image of this poster;


http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/71c1e6eea7_042806limbaugh.jpg

I despise that opiate addicted blowhard--almost as much as I fear you.......

[baja]

I figured as much, we hate the most what we see reflected from another that which we detest in ourselves so it was a good bet you would despise the pompous ass that is Rush.

As to your point about Obama losing the white male middle class vote that you seem to need to make over and over I have posted that I do not know middle white America well enough to have an informed opinion and I suspect the same can be said about all posting here including you.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Two points is all I have the time for with you.

1) YOU posted your age as 18 in your own profile, yet you're wondering why you're being held to that. That's bizarre any way you look at it. Either you lied about this when you posted your profile for some odd reason, or else you are lying now. One or the other must obviously be true, and regardless of which one it is, plainly you don't mind lying. Liars on internet discussion forums, particuarly those who are caught red handed rather than merely suspected of such...don't generally receive much respect from me, nor do I imagine from other posters. Hence your pitiful whining about how you're being treated is falling on deaf ears.

2) You're an arrogant pompous prick. I'm often accused of the same in here by a coalition of people who dislike me for various personal viewpoints and how I present them, but while I don't deny sometimes enjoying making somebody look foolilsh (you for example) who deserves it, rolling out a ludicrous statement like "I've accomplished more in my life than 95% of the people in here"...well you're going to get your ass handed to you big time with that idiocy.

Tell me please...how could you possibly know what anyone on this board has accomplished? More to the point, why would you be so stupid as to make the suggestion that you do? Offering up fanciful examples of your bench press numbers, your income level, the car you drive or your supposed other achievements does not impress me. It is after all...what liars generally do...is it not?

So far I consider you one of the less intelligent posters I've encountered in here. Your reasoning and logical thought processes appear linear and overly concrete rather than dimensional and analytical. You appear to lack the cognitive ability to diagnose complex problems and sift through that which is important vs. that which is trivial in relation to your stated premise. You leap to bizarre conclusions. You make unwaranted statements of supposed fact without backing up your assumptions. You revert to "scoreboarding" attempts when faced with the pressure to produce sound arguments in defense of your views. You appear to lack the ability to recognize more than one aspect of a problem at a time or consider alternative explanations for their validity. You engage in juvenile boasting about alleged physical or mental capabilities in a virtual forum where nobody can prove or disprove such things. You appear to have a mediocre grasp of the nuances of terminology, asking for example that people offer "proof" or some kind of refutation to counteract what have been essentially, predictions of future events rather than factual analysis...etc...

I could go on but others get the point even if you don't, so I'll stop here. The bottom line is you're just an annoying troll. If you want some respect in here you have to do at least one of two things; 1) give it to others, or failing that, 2) back up what you say with intelligent discourse that mixes real evidence with the ability to effectively communicate your point. If you can or won't do either one, well you're going to get blasted from all sides.

I guess you've discovered that by now.

[broncofan7]

I figured as much, we hate the most what we see reflected from another that which we detest in ourselves so it was a good bet you would despise the pompous ass that is Rush.

As to your point about Obama losing the white male middle class vote that you seem to need to make over and over I have posted that I do not know middle white America well enough to have an informed opinion and I suspect the same can be said about all posting here including you.

don't you have some catastrophe to plan?

[baja]

don't you have some catastrophe to plan?

Go back and read 27's post #90

[broncofan7]

Two points is all I have the time for with you.

1) YOU posted your age as 18 in your own profile, yet you're wondering why you're being held to that. That's bizarre any way you look at it. Either you lied about this when you posted your profile for some odd reason, or else you are lying now. One or the other must obviously be true, and regardless of which one it is, plainly you don't mind lying. Liars on internet discussion forums, particuarly those who are caught red handed rather than merely suspected of such...don't generally receive much respect from me, nor do I imagine from other posters. Hence your pitiful whining about how you're being treated is falling on deaf ears.

2) You're an arrogant pompous prick. I'm often accused of the same in here by a coalition of people who dislike me for various personal viewpoints and how I present them, but while I don't deny sometimes enjoying making somebody look foolilsh (you for example) who deserves it, rolling out a ludicrous statement like "I've accomplished more in my life than 95% of the people in here"...well you're going to get your ass handed to you big time with that idiocy.

Tell me please...how could you possibly know what anyone on this board has accomplished? More to the point, why would you be so stupid as to make the suggestion that you do? Offering up fanciful examples of your bench press numbers, your income level, the car you drive or your supposed other achievements does not impress me. It is after all...what liars generally do...is it not?

So far I consider you one of the less intelligent posters I've encountered in here. Your reasoning and logical thought processes appear linear and overly concrete rather than dimensional and analytical. You appear to lack the cognitive ability to diagnose complex problems and sift through that which is important vs. that which is trivial in relation to your stated premise. You leap to bizarre conclusions. You make unwaranted statements of supposed fact without backing up your assumptions. You revert to "scoreboarding" attempts when faced with the pressure to produce sound arguments in defense of your views. You appear to lack the ability to recognize more than one aspect of a problem at a time or consider alternative explanations for their validity. You engage in juvenile boasting about alleged physical or mental capabilities in a virtual forum where nobody can prove or disprove such things. You appear to have a mediocre grasp of the nuances of terminology, asking for example that people offer "proof" or some kind of refutation to counteract what have been essentially, predictions of future events rather than factual analysis...etc...

I could go on but others get the point even if you don't, so I'll stop here. The bottom line is you're just an annoying troll. If you want some respect in here you have to do at least one of two things; 1) give it to others, or failing that, 2) back up what you say with intelligent discourse that mixes real evidence with the ability to effectively communicate your point. If you can or won't do either one, well you're going to get blasted from all sides.

I guess you've discovered that by now.

What I have found on this board is that the excuse mongering race baters and those that support them are often quick to deflect criticism and do not want to accept the absolute fact that they are ,in fact a minority in the REAL world--most of the people who share your views are in fact NOT 'DO-ers', but instead bloviates who look for excuses as to why things are 'bad' and what needs to change for them to ascend to their rightful place in our society. I admit that I am in the minority in this VIRTUAL world--and I rather enjoy reading the bloviating that occurs here by the likes of you---th reason that I am so certain that I have accomplished more than 95% on this board is because society generally rewards people financiallly for their contributions to that society and from my latest tax return I unfortunately am paying more than my share for the likes of you, enabling some like you to be spreading such idiocy via the support with my tax dollars of federal programs, medicaid, etc..... that allow your kind to fester and grow like a cancerous tumor that has metastacized to the point where not only a scapel is needed ,but perhaps a large of pharmacological mechanism by which it can be contained. The wishy washy, gray spectrum visionist people such as yourself owe the many of us who are able to see things as they are , analyze them and then project out in a skillful , creative and logical fashion what the future may hold owe us your very existence or many of you would still be hunting with spears and wearing animal hides for clothes ...... Obama will lose in PA and he will lose in November--expect a PM on WED

[baja]

What I have found on this board is that the excuse mongering race baters and those that support them are often quick to deflect criticism and do not want to accept the absolute fact that they are ,in fact a minority in the REAL world--most of the people who share your views are in fact NOT 'DO-ers', but instead bloviates who look for excuses as to why things are 'bad' and what needs to change for them to ascend to their rightful place in our society. I admit that I am in the minority in this VIRTUAL world--and I rather enjoy reading the bloviating that occurs here by the likes of you---th reason that I am so certain that I have accomplished more than 95% on this board is because society generally rewards people financiallly for their contributions to that society and from my latest tax return I unfortunately am paying more than my share for the likes of you, enabling some like you to be spreading such idiocy via the support with my tax dollars of federal programs, medicaid, etc..... that allow your kind to fester and grow like a cancerous tumor that has metastacized to the point where not only a scapel is needed ,but perhaps a large of pharmacological mechanism by which it can be contained. The wishy washy, gray spectrum visionist people such as yourself owe the many of us who are able to see things as they are , analyze them and then project out in a skillful , creative and logical fashion what the future may hold owe us your very existence or many of you would still be hunting with spears and wearing animal hides for clothes ...... Obama will lose in PA and he will lose in November--expect a PM on WED

Spiritual evolvement will occur when folks with the above thinking realize they are full of shiit.

[broncofan7]

Spiritual evolvement will occur when folks with the above thinking realize they are full of shiit.

You may want to contact a moderator--your ignore list button must not be properly functioning...

[baja]

You may want to contact a moderator--your ignore list button must not be properly functioning...

I took you off ignore I want to watch your process here. Consider it a study in human nature.

I am one of those that think you are a pretender and want to see how you back yourself further into a corner or not.

[footstepsfrom#27]

--most of the people who share your views are in fact NOT 'DO-ers', but instead bloviates who look for excuses as to why things are 'bad' and what needs to change for them to ascend to their rightful place in our society.
As if you had any idea what I have done or not done. ROFL!
---th reason that I am so certain that I have accomplished more than 95% on this board is because society generally rewards people financiallly for their contributions to that society and from my latest tax return I unfortunately am paying more than my share for the likes of you,
You're not paying a dime for me doofus.
The wishy washy, gray spectrum visionist people such as yourself owe the many of us who are able to see things as they are , analyze them and then project out in a skillful , creative and logical fashion what the future may hold owe us your very existence or many of you would still be hunting with spears and wearing animal hides for clothes
The only thing we owe you is contempt.
...... Obama will lose in PA and he will lose in November--expect a PM on WED
Obama's never been expected to win PA in the first place, nor does he need to at this point. Most analysts see a less than double digit loss there as a victory for him. This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You think you've made some kind of bullet point with that statement, which tells me you're pretty dense. It's probalby not your fault since you're apparently the product of Bush's Many Children Left Behind educational abortion known as the Texas public school system.

Sad really...

[ScottXray]

The Reverend Wright info gave me pause in my support of Obama when I first heard it. I have to admit that. Although he is a politician I accept the explanation that he gave in his speech in Philadelphia as reasonable and truthful, and I continue to support him. And I agree that Obama will probably ultimately "lose" in the PA primary next week. Not so much because of Wright and Ayers but because Hillary had a huge lead, that has been eroded, but probably not enough. The main reason is the media continues to focus on these innuendos, and NOT on the real issues. I think Hillary will win by about 10 points (55-45). Obama will win in NC and Indiana though, shortly after.

As to whether Obama has lost the white middle class vote is something that will be seen in November, not next week in PA. I do know that a large percentage of those voters who profess to have supported Obama and now point to Rev Wrights leanings and the church he attends as being racist, probably never really would have voted for him in November anyway. Basically, they have deep seated racial fear that overrides their other thought process. In this aspect, broncofan7 may be right.

My point is that although Obama is probably the best candidate of the remaining three, there is still enough of a racial basis in this country, that it MAY cost him the election in November. Many people profess that they are not racists, but deep down they are.

As far as B7 goes....why don't you Change your profile if it is not accurate, and or explain the inconsistencies that have been brought up?

[Beantown Bronco]

LOL---Are you that customer service guy I call at BofA when I get a $13,000 check and deposit it and it doesn't clear immediately

Quit writing yourself bad checks and you won't have to wait for them to clear.

[broncofan7]

As if you had any idea what I have done or not done. ROFL!

You're not paying a dime for me doofus.

The only thing we owe you is contempt.

Obama's never been expected to win PA in the first place, nor does he need to at this point. Most analysts see a less than double digit loss there as a victory for him. This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You think you've made some kind of bullet point with that statement, which tells me you're pretty dense. It's probalby not your fault since you're apparently the product of Bush's Many Children Left Behind educational abortion known as the Texas public school system.

Sad really...

Let's make a bet--I will put an Obama sticker on my M3 if Obama wins in Nov and you can put a McCain sticker on your Hyundai and Baja can apply the McCain sticker on the saddle on his Donkey when McCain wins...Deal?

[baja]

I ride bareback

[broncofan7]

I ride bareback

all that can be said is "Not surprised."

[baja]

and naked

[Beantown Bronco]

th reason that I am so certain that I have accomplished more than 95% on this board is because society generally rewards people financiallly for their contributions to that society and from my latest tax return I unfortunately am paying more than my share for the likes of you....

You couldn't be more wrong. The great majority of those that truly contribute to society are actually at the bottom rung of the salary ladder.....they volunteer or work for various non-profits that pay very little. Or they work in the public sector which often pays far less than comparable positions in the private sector. They give their time to help others without being rewarded financially.

Anyone who is in their 30s should know this.

Even 18 year olds should know this.....yet apparently they don't.

I've never known anyone that is truly "well off" financially that goes around bragging about it in real life, much less the Internet. It's obvious you are just making things up to get a rise out of people.....it's sad, but not unexpected I guess. Some will do anything to get some attention, especially when they are in your position: sitting at home, hoping to graduate from high school in a few months.....only to realize that in a few months, anyone that could even remotely be considered a friend will be going away to college while you stay home and re-read all the rejection letters you received from what you thought were your "safety" schools......no job.....no prospects.....nothing but the bed your mother makes for you every morning and the Internet, where a new, better, made-up world awaits. Until you overdo it describing your "life" and everyone sees you for what you really are.

[theAPAOps5]

Only an M3. I just purchased my M5, just got back from Germany and my Autobahn test drive. Anyone thinking of doing it I highly recommend it. They have a program for M3 buyers but they are kind of a joke.

[broncofan7]

You couldn't be more wrong. The great majority of those that truly contribute to society are actually at the bottom rung of the salary ladder.....they volunteer or work for various non-profits that pay very little. Or they work in the public sector which often pays far less than comparable positions in the private sector. They give their time to help others without being rewarded financially.

Anyone who is in their 30s should know this.

Even 18 year olds should know this.....yet apparently they don't.

I've never known anyone that is truly "well off" financially that goes around bragging about it in real life, much less the Internet. It's obvious you are just making things up to get a rise out of people.....it's sad, but not unexpected I guess. Some will do anything to get some attention, especially when they are in your position: sitting at home, hoping to graduate from high school in a few months.....only to realize that in a few months, anyone that could even remotely be considered a friend will be going away to college while you stay home and re-read all the rejection letters you received from what you thought were your "safety" schools......no job.....no prospects.....nothing but the bed your mother makes for you every morning and the Internet, where a new, better, made-up world awaits. Until you overdo it describing your "life" and everyone sees you for what you really are.

You obviously missed my previous post regarding WHEN I began talking about my accomplishments--only after repeated personal attacks and a failure of them to stay on point. I agree with you to an extent on those that volunteer and howthey provide a great contribution to our society--however working for the government/public sector in my eyes is NOT a sacrifice--when you have a great retirement to look forward too and more than likely 'banker's hours' and a great health insurance plan while working AND in retirement, those jobs tend to attract very conservative , non risk taking types who do in fact look out for themselves. I know well because my father was one.....

[Beantown Bronco]

however working for the government/public sector in my eyes is NOT a sacrifice--when you have a great retirement to look forward too and more than likely 'banker's hours' and a great health insurance plan while working AND in retirement, those jobs tend to attract very conservative , non risk taking types who do in fact look out for themselves. I know well because my father was one.....

Don't make the mistake of lumping all government/public sector jobs into the one class of job that your father had/has. That stereotype, though accurate for some, is nowhere near accurate for the majority of folks holding those positions.

[yavoon]

You couldn't be more wrong. The great majority of those that truly contribute to society are actually at the bottom rung of the salary ladder.....they volunteer or work for various non-profits that pay very little. Or they work in the public sector which often pays far less than comparable positions in the private sector. They give their time to help others without being rewarded financially.

Anyone who is in their 30s should know this.

Even 18 year olds should know this.....yet apparently they don't.

I've never known anyone that is truly "well off" financially that goes around bragging about it in real life, much less the Internet. It's obvious you are just making things up to get a rise out of people.....it's sad, but not unexpected I guess. Some will do anything to get some attention, especially when they are in your position: sitting at home, hoping to graduate from high school in a few months.....only to realize that in a few months, anyone that could even remotely be considered a friend will be going away to college while you stay home and re-read all the rejection letters you received from what you thought were your "safety" schools......no job.....no prospects.....nothing but the bed your mother makes for you every morning and the Internet, where a new, better, made-up world awaits. Until you overdo it describing your "life" and everyone sees you for what you really are.

no way. public sector is not a personal sacrifice, it is often desirable by low risk ppl, in europe public sector impossible to fire jobs are very coveted. and if you are literally volunteering your time at a charity then yes that is beneficial, but if you're getting paid then no, thats just like anyone else doing a job.

and its the private sector that keeps this whole big game afloat. lets the socialists feel good about themselves and their horribly inefficient government.

[cutthemdown]

all that can be said is "Not surprised."

he's not talking about horses either

[Beantown Bronco]

no way. public sector is not a personal sacrifice, it is often desirable by low risk ppl, in europe public sector impossible to fire jobs are very coveted.

Most public service jobs in the US are NOT the same as the "impossible to fire" jobs you speak of in Europe.

and if you are literally volunteering your time at a charity then yes that is beneficial, but if you're getting paid then no, thats just like anyone else doing a job.

That is a blanket statement that has little basis in reality. I know of tons of people who have received offers to good Boston law firms making $160K + bonuses to start. They turned them down in order to work as attorneys in DAs offices or victim rights centers or for social services, etc. All serving the public, working just as many hours as they would in "big law firms", and getting paid about 25% of what they would start at at the big law firms. How is that "just like anyone else doing a job?" They are clearly making a choice to help others instead of themselves.....and just because they still make a salary doesn't take away from the good they are doing.

[TailgateNut]

Let's make a bet--I will put an Obama sticker on my M3 if Obama wins in Nov and you can put a McCain sticker on your Hyundai and Baja can apply the McCain sticker on the saddle on his Donkey when McCain wins...Deal?


Betting with a liar is a losing proposition.

[theAPAOps5]

Don't make the mistake of lumping all government/public sector jobs into the one class of job that your father had/has. That stereotype, though accurate for some, is nowhere near accurate for the majority of folks holding those positions.

I am in a public sector job. I work for the City and County of Denver. Yeah the benefits are great but trust me job security isn't what people think it is. When you are controlling aircraft on the ramps and you cause two planes to trade paint your job goes bye-bye. When I am coordinating snow removal or emergency response and I send a crew onto an active runway or I enter one myself there is a good chance my job is done.

The banking hours is a joke too. I work a rotating schedule and half the weekend. But I also get as much OT as I want. I am paying off all my debt so that I can start my business. I have a baby due in two months and she is getting damn fine health care. So I am using my benefits to my advantage and in 3 years plan to strike it out on my own.

There are lots of ambitious people who work for the public sector. But I agree with Broncofan7 that there are lots of people who go to collect a check and sit on their ass for 20 years. I refuse to become one of those types. We have them in my department but they are disappearing with each one that retires.

Just wanted to give a perspective from someone who works in the public sector but who has goals to strike out on my own.

[Spider]

Broncofan7 , I got the feeling half of everything you say is bull**** , the other half is from your fantasy world ...... I just have to figure out what half is the bull and the other fantasy ..........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/bitter-gop.jpg

[yavoon]

Most public service jobs in the US are NOT the same as the "impossible to fire" jobs you speak of in Europe.



That is a blanket statement that has little basis in reality. I know of tons of people who have received offers to good Boston law firms making $160K + bonuses to start. They turned them down in order to work as attorneys in DAs offices or victim rights centers or for social services, etc. All serving the public, working just as many hours as they would in "big law firms", and getting paid about 25% of what they would start at at the big law firms. How is that "just like anyone else doing a job?" They are clearly making a choice to help others instead of themselves.....and just because they still make a salary doesn't take away from the good they are doing.

turning down more money for less money isnt really the great moral virtue you imagine it to be. people who earn more money pay more taxes, infact they pay the taxes that employ the people who work as DA's. they also consume more which means they buy things that employ other people. keep in mind, our economy is capitalist, more money IS BETTER LITERALLY. you have to fully appreciate that reality before you can leave the socialist mindset. also good would be to throw away privation as some universal virtue, because both are dumb.

also it may very well be a misappropriation of talent to have people in extremely downscale jobs. should jack welch have been a high school english teacher? would that really have made america a better place?

and most government jobs are pretty impossible to fire from. maybe not as bad as europe, but an order of magnitude atleast harder than the private sector.

[baja]

Obama might become a great president or the anti christ

McCain will beat Obama so the first line is an unlikely option

Hillary might beat McCain

Hillary has lost to Obama so the third line becomes a non option

Result McCain will be the next President and finish what Bush worked so hard on, the destruction of the nation state known as The United States of America.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Obama might become a great president or the anti christ

McCain will beat Obama so the first line is an unlikely option

Hillary might beat McCain

Hillary has lost to Obama so the third line becomes a non option

Result McCain will be the next President and finish what Bush worked so hard on, the destruction of the nation state known as The United States of America.

Yeah, I hate to say it, but there probably isn't anyone or anything left that can stop the New World Order at this stage of the game.

[baja]

Yeah, I hate to say it, but there probably isn't anyone or anything left that can stop the New World Order at this stage of the game.

I like to remember the movie The Matrix when I'm feeling like that. Ultimately I don't think they will win. What they will accomplish is a painful wake-up for mankind.

[baja]

I find it interesting that guys like W*GS think I am a dooms day guy when in fact I am the ultimate optimist.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I like to remember the movie The Matrix when I'm feeling like that. Ultimately I don't think they will win. What they will accomplish is a painful wake-up for mankind.

Four years and some change left until we find out, eh?

http://www.adishakti.org/mayan_end_times_prophecy_12-21-2012.htm

[baja]

Did you have a chance to watch that movie I sent you?