What a mess! Anyone (attempt to) fly American Airlines this week?

[Sassy]

By HARRY R. WEBER, AP Business Writer
1 hour, 35 minutes ago



ATLANTA - Another day and hundreds more flights grounded. The financial toll and loss of goodwill among travelers from the debacle that spread further Thursday beyond American Airlines' massive cancellations could be severe — on an industry already reeling from high fuel costs.

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Lawmakers were asking questions and some fed-up air travelers headed for trains. Others gave the airlines a pass, saying the companies were doing the best they could.

"I'm really upset, but I'm trying to keep a positive attitude for the sake of my children and my husband, who's wandering around looking for us," said Rainie Nelson, a 39-year-old from Park Ridge, Ill., who was stranded at Chicago O'Hare International Airport with a toddler and an infant while on their way to Palm Springs, Calif.

Of American employees, she said, "There is no point in yelling at them. It's not their fault. So, I'm going to be as nice as I can be."

Mingo Valencia, a 60-year-old stuck at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport while heading home to Midland, Texas, wasn't so gracious.

"Poor management," he said bluntly.

Congress also weighed in Thursday. The FAA official who ordered the audits last month, Nicholas Sabatini, faced tough questions from a Senate subcommittee about the agency's lax oversight of airlines and his own accountability for recent breakdowns. The FAA noted that airlines had 18 months to complete the work on the MD-80s since the initial order was issued in September 2006.

American, a unit of Fort Worth, Texas-based AMR Corp., had canceled nearly 2,500 flights this week as of Thursday due to the safety inspections of its MD-80 aircraft following an FAA warning, and said an unspecified number of additional cancellations were expected through Saturday.

Alaska Airlines, Midwest Airlines and Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines joined the wave, each canceling a small number of flights on MD-80 aircraft on Thursday.

Roughly 250,000 passengers have been affected by the American cancellations this week alone.

Other carriers like Continental Airlines, JetBlue Airways, AirTran Airways and Northwest Airlines said they passed the first round of FAA audits with a clean slate and did not expect extra maintenance work or flight delays. It was impossible to say whether that could change since the FAA is conducting another round of safety audits.

The cancellations come at a time of high fuel prices and mixed success among the major air carriers at getting domestic fare increases to stick. The fact that airplanes are flying very full is making it difficult for airlines that cancel flights to find empty seats on other carriers to rebook their passengers.

"This disruption is severe," said Webster O'Brien, an industry expert with aviation consulting firm Simat, Helliesen & Eichner. "People are going to be unhappy. There isn't going to be an easy way to walk everybody out of it."

American CEO Gerard Arpey said Thursday that the cancellations will cost the airline "in the tens of millions of dollars." Analysts say the toll could easily be that, and perhaps much more.

Besides lost revenue from the canceled flights, American also was giving $500 travel vouchers to an unspecified number of inconvenienced passengers and putting some travelers up in hotels. There also could be transportation costs to and from hotels, extra overtime for employees and the long-term costs of losing goodwill among customers.

American spokeswoman Andrea Huguely said the cost probably wouldn't be known until Saturday night, when the carrier expects to have all its MD-80s back in service.

The cost to other airlines also was unclear, and the pain could continue, analysts said.

"Just given the level of scrutiny, it wouldn't surprise me if there were more cancellations and groundings at other airlines," said Standard & Poor's analyst Philip Baggaley.

He said the disruption was worse than some major storms that have affected large airline hubs.

"The costs are fairly substantial," Baggaley said. "Given that the cancellations have been spread among a number of carriers, this will make it harder for airlines to turn around and try to raise fares, particularly in the weakening economy. It does indeed come at a bad time."

Some travelers looked for other modes of transportation.

Amtrak has seen a spike in passengers since the flight cancellations began earlier in the week, especially in the Northeast, spokesman Cliff Cole said.

"Our ridership was heavy yesterday, is heavy today and is likely to be heavy tomorrow, based on our reservations," Cole said Thursday.

Greyhound Lines Inc. spokesman Eric Wesley said he was unsure whether demand had increased because many bus customers buy tickets at the last minute.

At the Minneapolis airport, meanwhile, Tammy Kennedy of Indianapolis was frustrated by the American Airlines situation.

"First it was on, then it was canceled, then it was on again, then we got in the plane and sat on the runway in Chicago for an hour," she said Thursday of her flight to Minneapolis.

She said the flight caused her to run late for a meeting.

"I probably won't fly American again," Kennedy said.

Arpey took responsibility for the cancellations, saying neither the airline's mechanics nor the Federal Aviation Administration were to blame.
They had 18 months to take care of it and now it's costing millions of dollars!

[baja]

Another piece of the 'Perfect Storm".

[BroncoMatt]

Pretty sure the answer to the question in the title of the thread is no, nobody has flown on American this week

[Popps]

I have family flying in on American tomorrow night. Supposedly, they're one of the lucky ones that are in a plane not subject to any issues....


we'll see.

[mhgaffney]

No. I flew last week on United.

But no matter.

The profit margin of the Airline industry is razor thin in the best of times. These are the worst of times. Three different Airlines went under last week -- due to the current high cost of jet fuel. (Nor will this turn around.)

Expect worse days ahead.

[broncofan2438]

sucks

[Sassy]

We don't even have American here...only Delta (who just cut their service here to Salt Lake), Northwest, United and Allegiant Air (only to Vegas and Phoenix).

[Los Broncos]

We don't even have American here...only Delta (who just cut their service here to Salt Lake), Northwest, United and Allegiant Air (only to Vegas and Phoenix).

I just heard today they cut Denver as well, sucks.

[Sassy]

Delta cut Denver?
We have NW through Minny and United goes through Denver or to Chicago (no stops)...Delta flew to Salt Lake and out...

[Los Broncos]

Delta cut Denver?
We have NW through Minny and United goes through Denver or to Chicago (no stops)...Delta flew to Salt Lake and out...

Sorry Sassy, you cant fly to Denver any longer, may have to thumb it. :thumbs:

[Sassy]

Delta never flew to Denver from Fargo...Only NW and United fly to Denver from here...United Direct...NW to Minny then to Denver. I love that United flight...I can be in Denver in an hour and 45.

[Los Broncos]

Delta never flew to Denver from Fargo...Only NW and United fly to Denver from here...United Direct...NW to Minny then to Denver. I love that United flight...I can be in Denver in an hour and 45.

Yeah, all flights are cut forever, now enough fuel for planes.

Hitch hike with Bronco gear on, believe it!

[OABB]

damn democrats.

[baja]

And these are the best of times compared to the near future.

[footstepsfrom#27]

My step daughter works the front desk at a major hotel near AA's DFW hub and she says they have over 300 stranded AA passengers there with the airline footing the bill. They're all in a bad mood. If I had AA tickets I'd be looking for something else.

[theAPAOps5]

Delta has not cut flights into Denver. I don't know where that dumb rumor is coming from.

Second of all this is nothing to do with the mythical "perfect storm" this has to do more with the FAA being in bed with the airlines. This "perfect storm" that Baja is going on about is financial.

Third Ghaff mentions that 3 airlines went out of business. Lets look closely at these 3 airlines.

Champion Air: They are a seasonal charter destination company. They fly around on Boeing 727's. Thats the equivalent of Ford Model A these days. I wouldn't call them an airline.

Aloha Air: They were struggling long before oil shot up. They were going down the tubes no matter what.

Skybus Airlines: This company was the worst managed company in the airline industry. They actually sold tickets for something like $27.00. Their business model was flawed.

ATA Airlines: This is more of a big deal. They were a big time military charter operator and the military pulled out of the negotiation. That sudden loss of cash was too much.

Now lets look at Southwest Airlines. They just made news because they have some bad investments they are going to have to eat. Thats to a sum of $341M. No sweat they have 3 Billion, yes Billion in reserve cash on hand.

The big players in American Aviation won't be going anywhere. United, American, Delta, US Air, Northwest, Continental will be around through this mess.

Its the low cost carriers that are going to suffer. Watch out for Frontier. Their stock is below $2.00 and they are getting their ass kicked by Southwest. They are in trouble. They just had to sell off 4 planes to reduce costs and free up cash.

This is just another period of weeding out. It happened after deregulation and again a few times since. Remember PanAm and TWA. Yeah I bet if forums were around when they went under the fearful would be freaking out. Now they were just a blip on the Radar.

[theAPAOps5]

Another thing is the MD-80 and the Boeing 737 are the two most common jets in the Commercial Aviation arean. So when an "oversight" like this happens its going to ding a lot of people. American flies the most MD-80s out of any carrier with 275. Thats why its affecting them so bad.

A lot of industry experts are saying there are more groundings to come. The FAA has a lot of egg on their face because they turned a blind eye and bullied their employees who were trying to do their job and reprimand air carriers for these oversights.

[Has Been]

I just arrived home today after waiting 40 hours in Dallas. Cost for my delays is $737.00. Hotel, meals, cab, & switching airlines. It Was Bad! AA is HORRIBLE in giving timely information.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I'm a strange cat. I love flying. Even on cattle cars like Southwest. It's just plain fun.

I think it's because I used to fly every summer from Scotland to America when I was kid, for like 10 years straight.

[Sassy]

The worst time I ever had was at O'Hare on my way to Rochester...bumped me...no other available flights until 6:20 that night (was at O'Hare at 6 am and was suppose to fly out at 9 am) and then they had mechanical problems...I was at O'Hare for 12 hours...nothing compared to what AA customers are going through but it still sucked. I did get cut a check by United for $400 (or I could have any flight) right then and there. They said that that never happens...where they cut the check right there...there were six of us that kept running into each other trying to get on standby...but they were full...we opted to drink instead ;D

[azbroncfan]

Another thing is the MD-80 and the Boeing 737 are the two most common jets in the Commercial Aviation arean.

That's not correct. There are more 757's, A320/21/19's, and CRJ's than Mad dogs.

[azbroncfan]

The big players in American Aviation won't be going anywhere. United, American, Delta, US Air, Northwest, Continental will be around through this mess.

I wouldn't be so sure about United as they are the worst run Legacy out there and I'll bet they merge with another carrier such as Continental. They used to be a great company 10 years ago but not anymore they are clearly the worst Legacy airline around.

[cutthemdown]

That's not correct. There are more 757's, A320/21/19's, and CRJ's than Mad dogs.

American fly's more md-80 then anyone though.

[azbroncfan]

American fly's more md-80 then anyone though.

Well yeah since they are the only one other than Delta to even fly them out of the Legacy's. I never said they didn't fly the majority of them as they are obsolete if American doesn't have so many of them. I just pointing out that the MD 80/90's are not the #2 aircraft flown in commercial aviation as someone else said. They aren't even 2, 3, or 4.

[Jetmeck]

Calling the once number ONE airline TWA a blip on the radar clearly is a joke.
There were ten changes to this AD (AIRWORTHINESS DIRECTIVE) regarding this wire bundle. This wire bundle WAS NOT a safety issue it is just a repercussion of the FAA screwup allowed at Southwest a few weeks back. They are now flexing their muscle a bit to make the public believe they are in control. The scary part to me is FBO operations which are airlines having major work done on their aircraft overseas with little to no oversight by the FAA. This is ludicrous.

[Bronco Jamus]

Frontier has annouced it will file chapter 11, but still function. According to the news, they said because of a credit card company asking they hold more cash in reserve and rising fuel costs.

[theAPAOps5]

Yeah I knew this was coming. Didn't think it would be that fast though. I thought it would hit around Memorial Day when prices traditionally rise on fuel.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Lets see, 5 airlines filling Chapter 11 this year so far. Can't we just bail them all out again?

[theAPAOps5]

Calling the once number ONE airline TWA a blip on the radar clearly is a joke.


No not clearly a joke. What effect has the loss of TWA had on the industry. Nothing, it was absorbed by the other legacies.

And Azbronc I just read that there are more 737's and MD-80's operating in the US than any other jet. I will defer to you though as you know your stuff. 757's and Airbus probably is bigger in the world but I meant in the US.

[theAPAOps5]

Lets see, 5 airlines filling Chapter 11 this year so far. Can't we just bail them all out again?

Nope they are all low fare carriers.

[azbroncfan]

And Azbronc I just read that there are more 737's and MD-80's operating in the US than any other jet. .

Add them up. There are only two legacies and a couple of charter operators that even fly the MD-90/80's. There are roughly 500 MD's with the majority (325 of them) being operated by AA. There are about 600 757's excluding Fedex/ups, 600 A320/321/319's, and easily that many CRJ's being operated. Add them up yourself. http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/

[Hogan11]

Better American doing it now than in the fall.......that's all I have to say about it.

[Beantown Bronco]

Better American doing it now than in the fall.......that's all I have to say about it.

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing. United better get on this soon, because they are generally the cheapest and most convenient non-stops from Boston to Denver.

[Hogan11]

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing. United better get on this soon, because they are generally the cheapest and most convenient non-stops from Boston to Denver.

As a mainly AADvantage guy, I fly AA everywhere I can usually.....with tailgates in Denver and Diego planned (depending upon the schedule, of course), oh yeah I'm glad this is happening now instead of then.

I'd expect United to follow suit anytime now....domino effect.

[TheChamp24]

My brother works for Continental, and they are pretty well managed(from that point of view). He expects some mergers soon between airlines, such as Untied merging with Continental, Delta/American merging, etc.

On a side note, kinda hope this doesn't linger, because the fiancee and me have plane tickets to Florida for our vacation in mid May. Anyone know if this will still be a problem by then?

[broncosteven]

I'm a strange cat. I love flying. Even on cattle cars like Southwest. It's just plain fun.

I think it's because I used to fly every summer from Scotland to America when I was kid, for like 10 years straight.

Now we know where the Lockness Monster rumors come from

[broncosteven]

My cousin flys for Air tran. He is a captain and makes less $ than me.

[TailgateNut]

As a mainly AADvantage guy, I fly AA everywhere I can usually.....with tailgates in Denver and Diego planned (depending upon the schedule, of course), oh yeah I'm glad this is happening now instead of then.

I'd expect United to follow suit anytime now....domino effect.



AA better get their caca in order and not **** with my miles. I have about 150000 stockpiled. I guess I should book a few trips before the miles go the way of the $ (south).

[theAPAOps5]

AA better get their caca in order and not **** with my miles. I have about 150000 stockpiled. I guess I should book a few trips before the miles go the way of the $ (south).

Make sure you take a trip that isn't suited for an MD-80!

[Los Broncos]

Now we know where the Lockness Monster rumors come from

Hilarious!

[Sassy]

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing. United better get on this soon, because they are generally the cheapest and most convenient non-stops from Boston to Denver.

Yep! Fargo to Denver on United...nonstop...get it done United!

[Jetmeck]

[QUOTE=ApaOps5;1942462]No not clearly a joke. What effect has the loss of TWA had on the industry. Nothing, it was absorbed by the other legacies. [quote]


As to the loss of TWA having no effect on the industry ? Are you kidding me ?

Where do you think about 30-40% of American's MD-80s came from ? What was deregulations point in the first place ? To provide competition and lower fares for consumers. Well guess what as every legacy airline combines and buys another legacy carrier your choices dwindle until one carrier has a choke hold on what you will pay to fly. The only thing holding back prices recently has been fuel costs and carriers are slowly beginning to pass those along. You do understand that is why we pay so much at the pump these days as there are four major players in the oil industry as we speak. You want that BS for the airlines ?

Take your "Nothing, it was absorbed by the other legacies" comment regarding the loss of TWA to the airline industry and rethink it because you are totally wrong.

AA has corrected all the wiring bundle clamps and will have things back to normal by SUNDAY. Again it was never a safety issue. They were the FAA's whipping boy for their screwup up on Southwest about a month ago.

[theAPAOps5]

You are wrong. It didn't hurt the economy one bit with the loss of TWA and PanAM. They will be absorbed as will the traffic from the recent airlines that have been shut down.

It had no effect. Its not rocket science. Keep reaching though.

[theAPAOps5]

And the MD-80 actually was very successful when it first appeared. These recent groundings have nothing to do with the airplane. It has to do with AD's posted by the FAA that went ignored. Many people swear by the MD-80.

You argument that the loss of carriers will hurt us is bogus too. You were probably one of those guys that was screaming about deregulation when it happened because you wanted your 5 course meal on the airplane. Deregulation was the best thing that could happen to the industry. With the constant threat of the low fare carriers and the domination of Southwest fears of sky rocketing ticket prices due to lack of competition is the least of my worries.

[theAPAOps5]

I can go all day if you want. I like educating the people who think they know and really don't.

[TallyBronco]

The only thing that worries me is the sight of Congress involved in this. Politics will make a far bigger mess out of this than bankruptcy itself.

These clowns are by and large a bunch of back-slapping lawyers who know sh#t about economics.

[baja]

You are wrong. It didn't hurt the economy one bit with the loss of TWA and PanAM. They will be absorbed as will the traffic from the recent airlines that have been shut down.

It had no effect. Its not rocket science. Keep reaching though.

He's right though about all these acquisitions and mergers happening these past few years in earnest. How do you beat the competition? - you merge it away.

[Jetmeck]

I can go all day if you want. I like educating the people who think they know and really don't.


See I knew this about you before you just had to come out and try to beat your chest.

I have worked for a major carrier for 16 years and another for 5. I also work in avionics. You don't have a clue. No one said the MD-80 was a problematic aircraft.
In case you have not been following along I'll explain slowly just for you. NO ADs were ignored. The AD in question came out in 06 and AA was the lead airline working with Boeing to resolve this wire chafing problem and AA completed the work in 06 even though they were given 18 months to do so. The recent FAA audits found issues with how the AA accomplished the AD but NO chaffing or wire exposure was found during any inspections.

NO SAFETY ISSUES WHATSOEVER WERE FOUND.

For example......clamps were spaced wrong and a different type of retaining nut was used. This was what they found wrong. As I said earlier the FAA is using AA as they whipping boy because of their screwup on Southwest
WHO ARE THE ONES THAT COMPLETELY MISSED DOING
PART OF THEIR SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE.

Got it smart boy ?

If you are too thick headed to see that TWA and other large airlines being gobbled up will become a great problem in the future and will completely negate the proposed effect of deregulation then you are beyond help.

[baja]

See I knew this about you before you just had to come out and try to beat your chest.

I have worked for a major carrier for 16 years and another for 5. I also work in avionics. You don't have a clue. No one said the MD-80 was a problematic aircraft.
In case you have not been following along I'll explain slowly just for you. NO ADs were ignored. The AD in question came out in 06 and AA was the lead airline working with Boeing to resolve this wire chafing problem and AA completed the work in 06 even though they were given 18 months to do so. The recent FAA audits found issues with how the AA accomplished the AD but NO chaffing or wire exposure was found during any inspections.

NO SAFETY ISSUES WHATSOEVER WERE FOUND.

For example......clamps were spaced wrong and a different type of retaining nut was used. This was what they found wrong. As I said earlier the FAA is using AA as they whipping boy because of their screwup on Southwest
WHO ARE THE ONES THAT COMPLETELY MISSED DOING
PART OF THEIR SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE.

Got it smart boy ?

If you are too thick headed to see that TWA and other large airlines being gobbled up will become a great problem in the future and will completely negate the proposed effect of deregulation then you are beyond help.

In reading your sig I'm wondering if you have a constant itch?

[Jetmeck]

In reading your sig I'm wondering if you have a constant itch?


Usually only when BOB posted but lately APA has filled in nicely for him. Time for a cortisone injection.

[theAPAOps5]

What do you mean lately I am a bad poster. I seem to only have had one run in with you and its been in this thread.

We have differing opinions on aviation. Just because you work in avionics doesn't make you more of an expert than me and I am not trying to sound like I am an expert. All I am saying is the long term effects of a major carrier going under is not that bad. They always get absorbed into other carriers. The short term effect is bad because of the immediate loss of jobs and impact on travelers.

I apologize for my postings last night. I was in dick head mode and that wasn't right of me to post like that.

[theAPAOps5]

I understand that after deregulation the hope was with the new competition new carriers would emerge but look at all the carriers that came and went:

Braniff, People's Express, Eastern Airlines, Midway, Air Florida, Pan American, TWA, Western Pacific, Reno Air

I think you can only have a certain number of airlines operate before it becomes too saturated. So thats why I think that the loss of a few isn't bad. But thats my belief.

[theAPAOps5]

This article in todays Denver Post is just another bad sign for the industry:

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_8906164

The age of nickle and diming is upon us. The airlines are just going to get more and more innovative with their charges as gas prices go up.

I think Boeing has a good idea with the new 787 concept and integrating Composite into its design. More efficient ways of operating your business will increase profits. Of course there are many aspects to life safety where composite is involved. NFPA is studying the Yankee pilot who crashed his cirrus into that skyscraper. Apparently they have found that composite burns extrememly hot which effects rescue and loss of life threats increase.

[azbroncfan]

All I am saying is the long term effects of a major carrier going under is not that bad. They always get absorbed into other carriers. The short term effect is bad because of the immediate loss of jobs and impact on travelers.

.


Wait until you see the high ticket costs and you won't be saying that. Less carriers=less competition=higher ticket prices. I'm fine with it too because higher ticket to offset gas prices means they won't be slashing my paycheck to make up for the gas prices.

[theAPAOps5]

Wait until you see the high ticket costs and you won't be saying that. Less carriers=less competition=higher ticket prices. I'm fine with it too because higher ticket to offset gas prices means they won't be slashing my paycheck to make up for the gas prices.

I don't think they will get out of hand. You still have the success of low fare carriers like Southwest and JetBlue. Even Frontier was kicking ass until recently. The move of Southwest into the market forced Frontier to abandon a very successful business model of moderate expansion.

[theAPAOps5]

http://www.9news.com/money/article.aspx?storyid=89877

More of the credit card story for Frontier Airlines. First Data wanted 75 million in cash as collateral. The oil fears seem to be whats driving it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Nope they are all low fare carriers.Which are part of the overall competition which brings down fares. What happens to the employee's benefits when they go into bankruptcy?

[DenverBrit]

American was a partial mess. I flew internationally with them via Miami and both flights were on time.....actually the flight to Denver landed a little early.
One odd thing though. Flying out of Denver to Miami and then on to an international flight, we bypassed any passport control.
No one went through any kind of departure/passport check.
So much for the Billions being spent on homeland security.

[theAPAOps5]

Which are part of the overall competition which brings down fares. What happens to the employee's benefits when they go into bankruptcy?

The employees at Frontier aren't losing anything. Their pilots were already being asked to take mandatory months of unpaid leave or face furloughs. But they kept their benefits and seniority.

You still have Southwest and JetBlue and even Frontier providing the competition. As long as Southwest is as successful as they have been there will be an option for travel.

[theAPAOps5]

American was a partial mess. I flew internationally with them via Miami and both flights were on time.....actually the flight to Denver landed a little early.
One odd thing though. Flying out of Denver to Miami and then on to an international flight, we bypassed any passport control.
No one went through any kind of departure/passport check.
So much for the Billions being spent on homeland security.

That is very peculiar. I assume you were going to London.

[Sassy]

Northwest and Delta may be combining soon....after approval of both boards of directors...

[theAPAOps5]

Northwest and Delta may be combining soon....after approval of both boards of directors...

Thats if the unions sign off on it. Everyone is assuming that mergers are a certainty. But the Pilots, Flight Attendants, and Mechanics unions have a big say in what happens. I have no clue how they are going to figure out pilot seniority and equipment. I think those barriers provide a huge challenge for any merger. Not impossible but man that is going to take some serious creativity and salesmanship.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351184,00.html

If this deal is made watch for United and Continental to merge within days of this one. Continental and United can't merge until Northwest merges because Northwest has right of first refusal regarding any changes Continental attempts.

http://stateoftheairline.blogspot.com/2006/09/continental-airlines-and-golden-share.html

[Sassy]

I actually hope they don't...gives us more choices here...although Delta has cut their service from Fargo to Salt Lake.

[theAPAOps5]

Its going to be interesting days ahead. Especially for the airline that is left on the outside looking in after the mergers.

[DenverBrit]

That is very peculiar. I assume you were going to London.

No, I went to Cayman then on to a place I'm not supposed to visit. ;D

[theAPAOps5]

Oh how was Cuba. That is strange because isn't it now madatory to have a passport to visit any country.

[baja]

Oh how was Cuba. That is strange because isn't it now madatory to have a passport to visit any country.

Cuba welcomes Americans it's the US government that has the problem,

[DenverBrit]

Oh how was Cuba. That is strange because isn't it now madatory to have a passport to visit any country.

Cuba was a blast!
The problem is that Miami airport has a major problem with its passport control. There was none where American landed and transferred passengers to international flights.
It's like a lot of the current administration's homeland security programs, money gets spent, pockets are lined, but security gets worse.

[DenverBrit]

Cuba welcomes Americans it's the US government that has the problem,

The interesting thing about the embargo is that it benefits the Castro government. Anytime there is a shortage of anything, they point at the embargo and blame the US. The fact is, Cuba can't support its people as it exports almost nothing and is dependent on tourism to fund just the basics of life. The embargo, as usual, hurts the people and leaves the government cronies untouched. Despite all the problems, the Cubans seems to enjoy life and the music, cigars and mojitos are second to none.

[azbroncfan]

I don't think they will get out of hand. You still have the success of low fare carriers like Southwest and JetBlue. Even Frontier was kicking ass until recently. The move of Southwest into the market forced Frontier to abandon a very successful business model of moderate expansion.

It's hard to be a low cost carrier when oil is 110 bucks a barrel. You realize Southwest's fuel hedge's are up and you will see their prices rise in the future.

[theAPAOps5]

Thats a great point az. That is one of the secrets to Southwests success.

[azbroncfan]

Thats if the unions sign off on it. Everyone is assuming that mergers are a certainty. But the Pilots, Flight Attendants, and Mechanics unions have a big say in what happens. I have no clue how they are going to figure out pilot seniority and equipment. I think those barriers provide a huge challenge for any merger. Not impossible but man that is going to take some serious creativity and salesmanship.

[/url]

That's in a perfect world. The unions are going to fight it but from what I hear is that the merger is going through without the approval from the employees. I expect to hear something real soon.

[theAPAOps5]

Well the boards just announced they approved the deal. I expect to see United and Continental pull the trigger real soon. It will be interesting to see what happens. The Teamsters representing the United Mechanics out at DIA said they will fight any merger.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24116154

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Oh how was Cuba. That is strange because isn't it now madatory to have a passport to visit any country.Not mandatory to leave but suppose to be to get back in (from Mexico and Canada) I believe.

[theAPAOps5]

You know what you have a point BB. When I went to Costa Rica I had to show my passport when I checked in but the only time customs eyed it was on the return flight.

[Sassy]

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Delta and Northwest agree to combine By HARRY R. WEBER, AP Business Writer
25 minutes ago



ATLANTA - Delta Air Lines Inc. and Northwest Airlines Corp., squeezed by record high fuel prices and a slowing economy, are combining in a stock-swap deal that would create the world's biggest carrier. The boards of both companies gave the deal the go-ahead Monday.

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Delta said the combined airline, which will be called Delta, will have an enterprise value of $17.7 billion. It will be based in Atlanta, and Delta CEO Richard Anderson will head the combined company.

Under the terms of the transaction, Northwest shareholders will receive 1.25 Delta shares for each Northwest share they own. The exchange ratio represents a premium to Northwest shareholders of 16.8 percent based on Monday's closing stock prices.

Delta Chairman Daniel Carp will become chairman of the new board of directors and Northwest Chairman Roy Bostock will become vice chairman. Delta President and Chief Financial Officer Ed Bastian will retain those titles.

The new board will be made up of 13 members, seven of whom will come from Delta's board, including Anderson, and five of whom will come from Northwest's board, including Bostock and Doug Steenland, the current Northwest CEO. One director will come from the Air Line Pilots Association, the union that represents pilots from both carriers.

Delta also said that it has agreed with its pilot leadership to extend its existing collective bargaining agreement through the end of 2012. The agreement, which is subject to pilot ratification, facilitates the realization of the revenue synergies of the combined companies once the transaction is completed, Delta said. It also provides the Delta pilots a 3.5 percent equity stake in the new company and other enhancements to their current contract.

The agreement does not cover Northwest pilots.

Delta said it will use its best efforts to reach a combined Delta-Northwest pilot agreement, including resolution of pilot seniority integration, prior to the closing of the merger.

The announcement comes a year after the two carriers emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Both carriers are losing money again but are in much better shape than the four much-smaller airlines that have filed for bankruptcy or gone out of business in recent weeks.

The deal will need antitrust approval, and integrating the work forces of fully unionized Northwest and Delta, where pilots are currently the only major unionized work group, will be tricky.

The joining of Atlanta-based Delta and Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest, if approved by regulators, will result in combined annual revenue of $31.7 billion, vaulting it ahead of Fort Worth, Texas-based AMR Corp.'s American Airlines for the top spot in the U.S.

It would be the biggest carrier in the world in terms of traffic, before any further domestic capacity cuts and any divestitures that might be required by antitrust regulators.

The agreement comes after several months of merger discussions between Delta and Northwest and at one time between Delta and Chicago-based UAL Corp.'s United Airlines. Analysts believe a Delta-Northwest combination will stand up better to regulatory scrutiny because the two carriers have less overlap, even though a Delta-United combination could create more scale and have greater synergies.

Years of mounting losses forced Delta and Northwest to file for bankruptcy protection in New York on Sept. 14, 2005. Both emerged from bankruptcy as leaner carriers last spring, after shedding billions in costs during their reorganizations.

While in bankruptcy, Delta fended off a hostile takeover bid by Tempe, Ariz.-based US Airways Group Inc.

Delta said its plan to remain on its own would create more value than US Airways' $9.8 billion bid, which Delta argued would not pass regulatory hurdles. The value argument never materialized, as Delta's post-emergence market capitalization started out $1 billion less than US Airways' bid and less than the $9.4 billion to $12 billion Delta projected. Its market value has fallen precipitously in the months since amid airline industry woes, including high fuel prices and a general inability to gain traction raising ticket prices.

Many analysts predicted an eventual Delta-Northwest merger after Anderson, a former Northwest CEO, was named last August to be the chief executive officer of Delta.

Anderson, who was Northwest's CEO from 2001 to 2004, immediately sought to quiet those suggestions, telling Delta's pilots union chairman the morning his appointment was announced that he believed in Delta's standalone plan and that "he was not coming in as CEO to facilitate a merger with Northwest."

But eight months later, that's what Anderson is doing, and many analysts believe he didn't have a choice amid plummeting airline market values and soaring fuel prices.

Wall Street and some airline executives have pushed for consolidation for years, arguing that too many seats are chasing too few passengers. The resulting discounting has made it hard for airlines to cover their expenses.

However, Northwest and Delta overlap relatively little in the U.S. — which could actually help them gain antitrust approval. Delta's routes are strongest in the eastern U.S. and to Latin America and Europe. Northwest would complement that with its near-lock in the Midwest along with flights to its Tokyo hub and other points in Asia.

Northwest's Asian routes have been one of its main appeals to other carriers. It and United are the only two U.S. carriers with the rights to pick up new passengers in Japan and fly them farther into Asia. Delta and Northwest also complement each other internationally because they are both part of a marketing alliance that includes Air France-KLM.

U.S. airlines get the majority of their revenue from domestic service, though that trend has shifted in recent years as more carriers, particularly Delta and Northwest, have sought to increase international service.

___

AP Business Writer Joshua Freed in Minneapolis contributed to this report.

[Sassy]

My NW miles better be honored!

[theAPAOps5]

Your miles will be honored. I am just glad I bought stock in Northwest I am getting a deal for Delta stock.

[TheChamp24]

United and Continental will almost surely merge now.
Its funny, because Continental makes like no money on domestic flights, but makes a killing on the international flights. Who knows what would happen with a Continental-United merger though.

One thing though, Southwest is going to face some difficulties in the near future. Going to be hard to compete if the other merger takes place.
One thing, Frontier is almost done for. They were supposed to be able to compete with having Denver as a "hub", but they don't really have it as it doesn't dominant flights out/in like other airlines do.

[theAPAOps5]

Here is what grounded all the MD-80's. 4 inches of separation



http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n224/ApaOps5/AAwireties.jpg

[baja]

And some of you think government run health care is a good idea???