Football Outsiders: Cutler Relying Too Heavily on Marshall

[kmonty]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2008/04/08/ramblings/four-downs/6237/

Football Outsiders has a nice article on the AFC West. I found this little nugget pretty interesting:

Cutler should justifiably be upset that Marshall will miss off-season workouts. It is unclear, however, why a quarterback is appointed the role of publicly slamming a fellow teammate. The decision is all the more odd when the teammate is the person most responsible for your success. Perhaps Cutler is overreacting because he’s terrified at the prospect of playing without Marshall.

Last season, Cutler threw 496 passes. Of those, 169 were directed at Marshall. Only T.J. Houshmandzadeh was targeted more often. Carson Palmer threw one more pass to Housh than Cutler threw to Marshall, but Palmer threw almost 100 more passes overall. No quarterback relied so much on one receiver as Cutler did on Marshall.

[brncs_fan]

Well, lets see here.

Marshall was the only one on the field the whole season. Javon was on, then off, then kind of back on. Stockley was playing in the slot. Martinez was signed half way through the season. Scheffler was hurt part of the season. Graham stayed in to block.

Who else was he suppose to throw the ball to?

[Punisher]

Nice Find My man http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3236/cononohu8.png

[cabronco]

Well, lets see here.

Marshall was the only one on the field the whole season. Javon was on, then off, then kind of back on. Stockley was playing in the slot. Martinez was signed half way through the season. Scheffler was hurt part of the season. Graham stayed in to block.

Who else was he suppose to throw the ball to?


SSHHH....dont give him any info.. Let him sound like the ignorant idiot that the writer is.

[TallyBronco]

Interesting stats, but obviously dkewed by Javon's injury, Shefler's injuries, and the rotation at the #2 spot. Someone is going to be the 2nd most targeted receiver in the NFL, and given what we had last year at the #2 & #3 spots, no surprise that it was Marshall.

[Doggcow]

I think this jagoff's mouth is relying to much on his ass cashing these bull**** checks.

[cmhargrove]

Breaking news: The Colts are relying too much on Peyton Manning....

In a related story, the Chargers are relying too much on LT....

More on this breaking story later, now back to "Wok with Yan"....

[Punisher]

Breaking news: The Colts are relying too much on Peyton Manning....

In a related story, the Chargers are relying too much on LT....

More on this breaking story later, now back to "Wok with Yan"....

:~ohyah!:

[Northman]

Add in the fact that Palmer had Chad Johnson on the other side. God forbid we have 2 great WR on the field at the same time. I might change things up. This guy is a idiot.

[HEAV]

NED MACEY has followed the world of sports from his childhood home of Indianapolis to Philadelphia, Detroit, Australia, and beyond. Ned graduated from Haverford College in 2002 following an illustrious college pitching career where he starred predominantly as a middle reliever. Now he enters his third year at University of Michigan Law School where he spends his Saturdays giving spirited defenses of Lloyd Carr. On most Sundays during the season, he can be found wearing a Marvin Harrison jersey and lamenting the NFL's need to broadcast Lions games in Michigan while his wife checks to see how many times her true love Marc Bulger has been sacked. Ned explores the upset of the week in the column Any Given Sunday.

http://www.footballprospectus.com/meet.php

[kmonty]

Breaking news: The Colts are relying too much on Peyton Manning....

In a related story, the Chargers are relying too much on LT....

More on this breaking story later, now back to "Wok with Yan"....

lol :thumbsup:

[Man-Goblin]

Put me in the camp with the people who aren't all that concerned when a QB is throwing it a lot to his best receiver.

A better blurb would have taken the 102/169 completion ratio and compare that to other QB-Receiver tandems around the league.

Honestly, I have no idea if that is a good percentage or not.

[Rashomon]

Put me in the camp with the people who aren't all that concerned when a QB is throwing it a lot to his best receiver.

A better blurb would have taken the 102/169 completion ratio and compare that to other QB-Receiver tandems around the league.

Honestly, I have no idea if that is a good percentage or not.

I don't know where they got those stats, but based upon the story, TJH caught 112/170. He only had 1143 yds to Marshall's 1325, but had 12 TD's to Marshall's 7.

[montrose]

Had Tony been there the 1st month, it wouldn't be so skewed towards Brandon. With that, I do have some concern that Jay locks on a little too much. Hopefully that goes away with time (or DeSean Jackson catching 80 yard bombs from Jay every game).

[crowebomber]

San Francisco would have had so many more championships if that Montana threw to someone other than that Rice fellow.

[Kaylore]

It was pretty much Marshall and nobody for awhile there. Walker got plenty of balls early before he got hurt again. Scheffler got plenty of love once he came back from the foot deal (see the Bears game). Stokely made some plays but was mostly limited due to fragility and eventual injury. Graham was kept in to block and generally speaking didn't do all that well when we did throw him the ball (nice fourth down catch, Graham. Make sure you spike the ball to ensure the Jags get as close as possible to the endzone).

Basically Cutler was checking down to Glen Martinez and some guy most of the year. This is a good example of someone writing an article by looking at the stats without watching the games.

[RaiderH8r]

Cutler did make Martinez look like a passable receiver though.

[rovolution]

Martinez didnt do half bad this season.

He made some nice catches, especially that one in the Pitt game on the final drive.

[sixtimeseight]

Martinez didn't do half bad, he did full bad. Ignore the 3 or so nice catches he made and focus on the incorrect routes, the dropped balls and his complete inability to get seperation from all but the slowest safeties and linebackers. He's a passable 5th receiver on a crappy team, nothing else.

[Beantown Bronco]

Martinez didn't do half bad, he did full bad. Ignore the 3 or so nice catches he made and focus on the incorrect routes, the dropped balls and his complete inability to get seperation from all but the slowest safeties and linebackers. He's a passable 5th receiver on a crappy team, nothing else.

I've killed people for saying less.

[cmhargrove]

Martinez didnt do half bad this season.

He made some nice catches, especially that one in the Pitt game on the final drive.

I love underdogs, but I just can't get on the Martinez bandwagon. I might say, Martinez didn't do half good. All the routes he caught, I would rather throw to Marshall, Scheffler, Stokely or Graham. For a KR, Martinez really isn't a "deep threat." He wasn't much for YAC. He was pretty much a short route receiver that goes down with first contact.

Hopefully, Colbert will will bring more game and send Martinez to the far end of the bench. I'm more excited about giving Edell Shepherd a shot as a #2 than Martinez.

[rovolution]

I love underdogs, but I just can't get on the Martinez bandwagon. I might say, Martinez didn't do half good. All the routes he caught, I would rather throw to Marshall, Scheffler, Stokely or Graham. For a KR, Martinez really isn't a "deep threat." He wasn't much for YAC. He was pretty much a short route receiver that goes down with first contact.

Hopefully, Colbert will will bring more game and send Martinez to the far end of the bench. I'm more excited about giving Edell Shepherd a shot as a #2 than Martinez.

i wasnt trying to say he was a stud or had stud potential.


Im just saying hes a good ST player and can play some WR in a pinch if someone goes down or needs a breather.

The way some people talk about him, its like hes a completely worthless piece of crap who contributed absolutely nothing to the team.


hes not nearly as bad some here think considering the league minimum salary the Broncos pay him.


Were not going to have an entire roster full of All Pros.

[cutthemdown]

It points out a really bad problem for Broncos. They have no one else to throw to. Sheff is avg, Colbert is avg, Graham drops everything. Who else? Anyone worth mentioning? Broncos won't be very good this yr people.

[rovolution]

It points out a really bad problem for Broncos. They have no one else to throw to. Sheff is avg, Colbert is avg, Graham drops everything. Who else? Anyone worth mentioning? Broncos won't be very good this yr people.

I dont think Scheff is merely average.

He has Pro Bowl ability, but he had injury problems early on this past season by trying to put on tons of weight that offseason in order to improve his blocking abilities.

[rugbythug]

It points out a really bad problem for Broncos. They have no one else to throw to. Sheff is avg, Colbert is avg, Graham drops everything. Who else? Anyone worth mentioning? Broncos won't be very good this yr people.

While not top 5 our recieving core is at least average. B-marsh is a Borderline All pro, makes the whole group at least average.

[broncosteven]

I am gald that Cutlers 1st choice is his #1 WR and not a TE like some other weak assed team in the AFC west.

Hint Colors are red and Mustard.

[Jason in LA]

Cutler is showing that he is the leader. What he said wasn't even that harsh.

[Broncos4Life]

If I see this punk mutha****a on the street, I'm gonna rely heavily on my fist.

Its so horrible to rely on your best receiver. Don't throw to him Cutler! They'll write articles about you! Just keep quiet and throw to Mustard!

[listopencil]

If you have a go to guy that delivers, you get him the ball whenever you can. Unless you're a moron.

[broncosteven]

If you have a go to guy that delivers, you get him the ball whenever you can. Unless you're a moron.

or Herm Edwards.

[cutthemdown]

I dont think Scheff is merely average.

He has Pro Bowl ability, but he had injury problems early on this past season by trying to put on tons of weight that offseason in order to improve his blocking abilities.

Scheff doesn't look any better then a lot of TE in the NFL. He makes some plays but the league is full of great players. When I say avg I mean the avg TE that makes some plays here and there. He hasn't shown the consistency to be considered anything more then an avg NFL receiving TE. I'm not saying he stinks just that you can't build an offense around him.

Colbert? cmon he is a role player

Stokley? misses games here and there and is small

That leaves Marshall and his cut up forearm.

I love the Broncos and I hope I am wrong, but this team just doesn't have enough good players on it.

Pick the top 3 teams in the NFL in your opinion. Now go position by position and decide who you would rather have. The Bronco player or the other teams player. When I do that I end up with about 4-5 Broncos on my team. 4 now that Elam is gone. We lose 3 games easy this yr because Elam is gone IMO.

Unless Cutler is ready to win an extra 4-5 games on his own this team isn't even as good as last yrs team yet. I'm not convinced Boss Bailey can play SSL. He's no bigger then Gold IMO.

This is going to be a really tough year

[cutthemdown]

If I see this punk mutha****a on the street, I'm gonna rely heavily on my fist.

Its so horrible to rely on your best receiver. Don't throw to him Cutler! They'll write articles about you! Just keep quiet and throw to Mustard!

they are just pointing out Broncos need more weapons. The fact Marshall targeted too much, and let's face it that is too much, is because they lack playmakers. Walker was hurt, no Rod Smith, TE is inconsistent, and Stokely is old and used up. He can be a role player but you can't target him much.

Broncos need WR and they need them badly.

[cutthemdown]

i wasnt trying to say he was a stud or had stud potential.


Im just saying hes a good ST player and can play some WR in a pinch if someone goes down or needs a breather.

The way some people talk about him, its like hes a completely worthless piece of crap who contributed absolutely nothing to the team.


hes not nearly as bad some here think considering the league minimum salary the Broncos pay him.


Were not going to have an entire roster full of All Pros.

Martinez isn't an answer. It's time for Bronco fans to stop this craziness of picking some scrub and start talking about him like he's a factor.

He may not even make the team. For sure he is a bubble player. If we get stuck with Martinez playing it will be an even worst yr then I thought. I'm at least hoping for some young rookie with upside in the 2nd round or something.

[summerdenver]

Author exagerates Cutlers calling out of Marshall but he is right on when pointing out the dependence on a single receiver. Even considering the injuries on the other side, it is still a high proportion of total passes to a single receiver.

I beleive this is the next step in cutler's development where he learns to spread out the ball and hopefully he will take that step this year. It will also help if our OL can give him time to go to his 2nd, 3rd read.

[Northman]

Scheff doesn't look any better then a lot of TE in the NFL. He makes some plays but the league is full of great players. When I say avg I mean the avg TE that makes some plays here and there. He hasn't shown the consistency to be considered anything more then an avg NFL receiving TE. I'm not saying he stinks just that you can't build an offense around him.

Colbert? cmon he is a role player

Stokley? misses games here and there and is small

That leaves Marshall and his cut up forearm.

I love the Broncos and I hope I am wrong, but this team just doesn't have enough good players on it.

Pick the top 3 teams in the NFL in your opinion. Now go position by position and decide who you would rather have. The Bronco player or the other teams player. When I do that I end up with about 4-5 Broncos on my team. 4 now that Elam is gone. We lose 3 games easy this yr because Elam is gone IMO.

Unless Cutler is ready to win an extra 4-5 games on his own this team isn't even as good as last yrs team yet. I'm not convinced Boss Bailey can play SSL. He's no bigger then Gold IMO.

This is going to be a really tough year

Um, not to nitpick but the guy has only been in the league 2 years.

[rovolution]

Martinez isn't an answer. It's time for Bronco fans to stop this craziness of picking some scrub and start talking about him like he's a factor.

He may not even make the team. For sure he is a bubble player. If we get stuck with Martinez playing it will be an even worst yr then I thought. I'm at least hoping for some young rookie with upside in the 2nd round or something.

i didnt say hes the answer.\

The guy returned a punt for a TD, something a Bronco hadnt done in a long time, and he made some solid catches. Obviously hes not an All Pro but hes a solid low end receiver who plays ST and catches 10 passes a season. Most #5, #6 WRs like Martinez have that kind of production.

Im sorry but you cant have all 6 of the receivers on your roster be Randy Moss, Randy Moss, Randy Moss, Randy Moss, Randy Moss, and Randy Moss.

[Atlas]

I wish shanny would open up parts of the old Dan Reeves playbook and throw to the RBs and FBs more, More screens and more quick hitters in the flat. Throwing these quick passes to the RB and FBs is a good way to keep the LBers close to the LOS during pass plays and out of the throwing lanes. Plus what is safer than a long handoff?

[Beantown Bronco]

He may not even make the team. For sure he is a bubble player.

The Broncos tend to keep 6 WRs on their roster, so go ahead: name the 6 WRs that will displace him. Right now, he is probably #4 (I'll give Colbert the benefit of the doubt, but who knows).....#3 if Marshall doesn't bounce back for week one. Are they really going to draft/pick up three guys that are better than him and instantly pick up the system? No way.

[Florida_Bronco]

It was pretty much Marshall and nobody for awhile there. Walker got plenty of balls early before he got hurt again. Scheffler got plenty of love once he came back from the foot deal (see the Bears game). Stokely made some plays but was mostly limited due to fragility and eventual injury. Graham was kept in to block and generally speaking didn't do all that well when we did throw him the ball (nice fourth down catch, Graham. Make sure you spike the ball to ensure the Jags get as close as possible to the endzone).

Basically Cutler was checking down to Glen Martinez and some guy most of the year. This is a good example of someone writing an article by looking at the stats without watching the games.

I agree, which leads me to believe this is Bobo writing under an alias.

[crazyhorse]

All that article proves is that Housh is a better WR than Marshall.

That, and the fact most Bronco fans over react any time Cutler is challenged.

[Florida_Bronco]

All that article proves is that Housh is a better WR than Marshall.

That, and the fact most Bronco fans over react any time Cutler is challenged.

http://www.camdenny.com/oneidalake/fishing.jpg

[crazyhorse]

http://www.camdenny.com/oneidalake/fishing.jpg

You're more than welcome to dispute the post if you'd like. Those that can't, generally take the route you have chosen.

But please, if you do try.......leave bob out of it.

[cmhargrove]

It points out a really bad problem for Broncos. They have no one else to throw to. Sheff is avg, Colbert is avg, Graham drops everything. Who else? Anyone worth mentioning? Broncos won't be very good this yr people.

We'll just have to agree to disagree here. I think Scheffler could be a top tier TE if Cutler gets the time to throw to him. I really think Graham is a decent receiver, we just needed him to block more than catch. We'll see how Colbert does with Cutler throwing him the ball.

I'm much more optimistic than you are about the offense. What we need is to give Cutler about 4-6 seconds each play (better blocking), and all of these guys will start looking special.

Look at the tape last year. It wasn't that the receivers weren't getting open, its just that Cutler had about 3 seconds to read the play and dish it out. Give him another 1-2 seconds and Cutler will be going to the pro-bowl.

[cutthemdown]

We'll just have to agree to disagree here. I think Scheffler could be a top tier TE if Cutler gets the time to throw to him. I really think Graham is a decent receiver, we just needed him to block more than catch. We'll see how Colbert does with Cutler throwing him the ball.

I'm much more optimistic than you are about the offense. What we need is to give Cutler about 4-6 seconds each play (better blocking), and all of these guys will start looking special.

Look at the tape last year. It wasn't that the receivers weren't getting open, its just that Cutler had about 3 seconds to read the play and dish it out. Give him another 1-2 seconds and Cutler will be going to the pro-bowl.

ok we do disagree. For one 3 seconds is about how long WR have to get open in the NFL. You simply don't get the whopping 4-6 seconds you speak of very often. 6 seconds is an eternity in the NFL in terms of pass protection.

Broncos need a WR with great speed to take the pressure of Marshall. We simply don't have it on the roster right now.

You won't ever get 6 seconds. You may hope to get 4 seconds but not very often. The great qbs drop back, read, throw all in under 4 seconds. Sure some plays you get more or less but I don't think you can hope for 4-6 seconds of protection to let some scrub wr get downfeild.

[cutthemdown]

While not top 5 our recieving core is at least average. B-marsh is a Borderline All pro, makes the whole group at least average.

Marshall has what like 6-7 tds so far? He's no all-pro yet.

[cutthemdown]

Um, not to nitpick but the guy has only been in the league 2 years.

I totally agree he still could grow to be a good or great player. Right now though I see him as avg. Certainly some flashes where you think man he could really be something but then followed by not doing much.

I'm not saying Sheff isn't a factor he is. I am saying guys like Martinez are not a factor. Stokley unless you plan on winning this yr isn't much help. We need some young WR to grow with Cutler, to challenge Marshall and to also compliment him.

Maybe Colbert is better then I think, but I watched him a lot at USC. I think it would be wise for Broncos to add a couple WR through the draft. I'm not saying to draft all offense, only that we need wr as bad as we do anything else.

[cutthemdown]

i didnt say hes the answer.\

The guy returned a punt for a TD, something a Bronco hadnt done in a long time, and he made some solid catches. Obviously hes not an All Pro but hes a solid low end receiver who plays ST and catches 10 passes a season. Most #5, #6 WRs like Martinez have that kind of production.

Im sorry but you cant have all 6 of the receivers on your roster be Randy Moss, Randy Moss, Randy Moss, Randy Moss, Randy Moss, and Randy Moss.

Didn't he fumble a punt also? but whatever I wouldn't count on him being on the team. Don't worry though I'm sure there will still be an underdog for you to pull for.

I prefer to have my 4th and 5th wr be 4th and 5th wr only because they are young and raw. I still want them to demonstrate the skills of a starting WR. It's called grooming talent instead of mining crap like Broncos seem to like to do. I'd rather have Hixon on the team then Martinez, but whatever.

[Northman]

I totally agree he still could grow to be a good or great player. Right now though I see him as avg. Certainly some flashes where you think man he could really be something but then followed by not doing much.

I'm not saying Sheff isn't a factor he is. I am saying guys like Martinez are not a factor. Stokley unless you plan on winning this yr isn't much help. We need some young WR to grow with Cutler, to challenge Marshall and to also compliment him.

Maybe Colbert is better then I think, but I watched him a lot at USC. I think it would be wise for Broncos to add a couple WR through the draft. I'm not saying to draft all offense, only that we need wr as bad as we do anything else.

Well, i totally agree with you on those points. It just sounded like you were being a little hard on the guy after just 2 years. But the rest of what you said is right on point. Outside of Marshall and Sheff, there isnt much to work with. Especially since both of those guys are still growing into their own.

[Sodak]

We cut better receivers last year than Martinez. What happened to them?

[Orange_Beard]

Why the **** does anyone listen to a "Football Outsider"

Arn't we all football outsiders. **** off.

[Hogan11]

they are just pointing out Broncos need more weapons. The fact Marshall targeted too much, and let's face it that is too much, is because they lack playmakers. Walker was hurt, no Rod Smith, TE is inconsistent, and Stokely is old and used up. He can be a role player but you can't target him much.

Broncos need WR and they need them badly.

Stokely played pretty well for being old and used up....it never ceases to amaze me how posters continue to sell the man short.

[Beantown Bronco]

We cut better receivers last year than Martinez. What happened to them?

Please......name them.

Why would any coaching staff ever do this unless money was an issue? And money was not an issue for any WR not named Rod Smith last season, and they didn't cut him.

[cmhargrove]

ok we do disagree. For one 3 seconds is about how long WR have to get open in the NFL. You simply don't get the whopping 4-6 seconds you speak of very often. 6 seconds is an eternity in the NFL in terms of pass protection.

Broncos need a WR with great speed to take the pressure of Marshall. We simply don't have it on the roster right now.

You won't ever get 6 seconds. You may hope to get 4 seconds but not very often. The great qbs drop back, read, throw all in under 4 seconds. Sure some plays you get more or less but I don't think you can hope for 4-6 seconds of protection to let some scrub wr get downfeild.

There is a difference here between "average" teams and "championship" teams. Watch tape of every game leading up to the SB for the Patriots. They set scoring records because Brady had all day. The deep routes materialized because he had about 4-6 seconds on a consistent basis.

That is the same reason Indy has done so well offensively for many years. When Manning gets hit within the first 3 seconds, he loses games too (even with great receivers). Give him 4-6 and he destroys everyone.

Watch the Browns from last last year, Derek Anderson had about 1-2 more seconds than Cutler because their line blocked very well. Derek freaking Anderson put up 50 points a couple times last year because he had time to dish it out. They had the same receivers from the year before, but had a better O-line, more time.

My contention is that it is not our receivers, it is the blocking.

[cmhargrove]

ok we do disagree. For one 3 seconds is about how long WR have to get open in the NFL. You simply don't get the whopping 4-6 seconds you speak of very often. 6 seconds is an eternity in the NFL in terms of pass protection.

Broncos need a WR with great speed to take the pressure of Marshall. We simply don't have it on the roster right now.

You won't ever get 6 seconds. You may hope to get 4 seconds but not very often. The great qbs drop back, read, throw all in under 4 seconds. Sure some plays you get more or less but I don't think you can hope for 4-6 seconds of protection to let some scrub wr get downfeild.

Ok, second point, the rest is on Cutler.

Cutler needs to do 2 things better. 1) Slide forward in the pocket against the outside pressure (that will buy an extra second). and 2) Stop throwing downfield into double coverage. I think we would have easily won 2-3 more games last year if Cutler was a little more methodical about dishing the ball short and letting the skill guys do the rest. Cutler is a home run hitter. He needs to curb that just a little to help the team win more games.

We really missed Rod last year and his ability to find short holes in the defense. Hopefully Colbert is "that kind of guy."

[SJ Bronco]

I rely to heavily on my D***. Somebody should write an article about it.

The dude is a tool. End of thread.