Champ on Sirius: Bring Chad Johnson to Denver

[kmonty]

I'll have direct quotes later today, but the footnotes is on the blog.

http://broncotalk.net/2008/04/champ-bailey-wants-chad-johnson-in-a-broncos-uni/

Basically said we need playmakers on offense, the hosts asked if CJ was an option. Champ said he was trying to recruit him in the Pro Bowl, along with some other stuff.

[Northman]

I guess Brandon isnt a playmaker even though he was our best receiver last year.

[Dendave]

hmmm... I could go for that

[Paladin]

Brandon just needs to grow up.....

I would be ......uncomfortable with CJ on the Broncos' team. Besides, I don't think the Bungles would like to trade him unless they get back a substantial amount of any signing bonuses and a few first round picks.....

[24champ]

I'd love to see Chad in Denver as well.


Dude is money for 1,200 yds and at least 8 TDs. We'd have the best WR tandem in the league and Jay will be more than happy to throw to those two.

1st round pick and a pick from next year.

[Northman]

The Bengals have a good offense in Cincy and he is crying about not winning. And he is going to come to a team here that isnt much better? Trust me, if Chad comes to Denver he will be the same whiney guy he is in Bengal land.

[CBF1]

Dude is money alright..... Way too much money for our cap situation and future. Champ is starting to bother me this offseason with his griping.

[Inkana7]

Dude is money alright..... Way too much money for our cap situation and future. Champ is starting to bother me this offseason with his griping.

Are you serious? His "griping"?

[Beantown Bronco]

Yesterday, Champ Bailey went on the air of my favorite sports talk show and let loose. Really loose. In fact, I can’t ever remember Champ being that candid about his thoughts on his teammates and the front office.

This should be interesting.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Rebuild the lines...rebuild the lines...then worry about flashy receivers

[Punisher]

Chad can't fit in our Salary Cap....Enough Said

[Beej]

I'd rather have Limas Sweed.

[kmonty]

Yesterday, Champ Bailey went on the air of my favorite sports talk show and let loose. Really loose. In fact, I can’t ever remember Champ being that candid about his thoughts on his teammates and the front office.

This should be interesting.

I want to jot down the quotes before going into detail (I have the interview recorded). He sounded pretty pissed off about Elam. He said if we don't make the playoffs Shanny's on the hot seat.

He also talked about BMarsh a lot. Wasn't happy at all.

I was really surprised all this was coming from Champ.

[Northman]

Id rather have Marcus Nash.

[dbfan21]

Rebuild the lines...rebuild the lines...then worry about flashy receivers

Bump.

[PLOWHORSE]

I'd rather have Limas Sweed.

QFT

[Beantown Bronco]

I want to jot down the quotes before going into detail (I have the interview recorded). He sounded pretty pissed off about Elam. He said if we don't make the playoffs Shanny's on the hot seat.

He also talked about BMarsh a lot. Wasn't happy at all.

I was really surprised all this was coming from Champ.

I'm not surprised by anything he says anymore. People have been turning a blind eye and/or giving him a pass because of his talent; but the fact is, he has been saying a lot of questionable/controversial/outright negative things since before Thanksgiving.

[crowebomber]

Did we not learn anything from Javon? No matter where you move a whiny biotch, he's still going to be a whiny biotch.

[montrose]

I'm sure Champ, like most players, would love to have all the great players they can. But from a business and FO standpoint it makes no sense. We're on a tight budget with key players coming up for FA soon, and it's well documented Chad wants a new deal. We just got rid of a "babysitting required WR" and still have another, and we're going to bring in another? Finally, by the time this team has the OL and DL to be a title contender 2-3 years from now, Johnson's cap number will be high with his production (likely) diminishing. I'd be all over this move if this were 2005, coming off an AFCCG loss with a gaping hole at playmaker and a strong locker room of Al, Rod, Jake and co. to control him. Johnson would be a good fit for Dallas or Philly, not us.

[Northman]

I'm not surprised by anything he says anymore. People have been turning a blind eye and/or giving him a pass because of his talent; but the fact is, he has been saying a lot of questionable/controversial/outright negative things since before Thanksgiving.


Watch it Bean, your messing with the Golden Child here. :rofl:

[Northman]

I'm sure Champ, like most players, would love to have all the great players they can. But from a business and FO standpoint it makes no sense. We're on a tight budget with key players coming up for FA soon, and it's well documented Chad wants a new deal. We just got rid of a "babysitting required WR" and still have another, and we're going to bring in another? Finally, by the time this team has the OL and DL to be a title contender 2-3 years from now, Johnson's cap number will be high with his production (likely) diminishing. I'd be all over this move if this were 2005, coming off an AFCCG loss with a gaping hole at playmaker and a strong locker room of Al, Rod, Jake and co. to control him. Johnson would be a good fit for Dallas or Philly, not us.


Totally agree. And like ive stated before the first question i would be raising to Champ is "are you going to take a paycut or rework your contract to bring him in?" I can already see what his answer would be.

[tsiguy96]

champ is at/nearing the end of his prime, and he wants a championship to secure his hall of fame and possibly legacy of best cover corner ever. i dont blame him for being critical of a team that for every good moves it makes, it makes a questionable one. he wants to win, just like chad johnson, which is why he wants him here.

[Northman]

champ is at/nearing the end of his prime, and he wants a championship to secure his hall of fame and possibly legacy of best cover corner ever. i dont blame him for being critical of a team that for every good moves it makes, it makes a questionable one. he wants to win, just like chad johnson, which is why he wants him here.


Its called money management.

[24champ]

Totally agree. And like ive stated before the first question i would be raising to Champ is "are you going to take a paycut or rework your contract to bring him in?" I can already see what his answer would be.

Why should he rework his contract? The Broncos can fit both bills if they wanted to.

[kmonty]

But something's always bothered me about this entire Chad Johnson situation. What did he ever do to get this? He doesn't complain about sharing balls like Javon did. Sure, he dances in the end zone, but that doesn't bother me in the least.

It's like the local newspapers just turned on him. I don't get it. Who decided that Chad was the problem in Cincy?

[Northman]

Why should he rework his contract? The Broncos can fit both bills if they wanted to.


No they cant. If they had all the money in the world they would have kept Elam. They still have to think of the draft as well. Like i said, its easy to talk a big game when its not your money your dealing with. Bowlen is already quoted as saying he isnt just going to shovel out money left and right like he was doing. And to sign Johnson who already self admittedly said he isnt going to change his behavior is not worth the risk. Especially when this team isnt doing any better than the Bengals at this point.

[Northman]

But something's always bothered me about this entire Chad Johnson situation. What did he ever do to get this? He doesn't complain about sharing balls like Javon did. Sure, he dances in the end zone, but that doesn't bother me in the least.

It's like the local newspapers just turned on him. I don't get it. Who decided that Chad was the problem in Cincy?


Watch more Bengal games and you'll understand. He totally lost control in the Ravens game last year when he ran a wrong route and then got into a shouting match with his Qb. The guy has no accountability when he screws up. Its always someone else's fault when things go wrong. Now, he is quoted as saying letting Henry go was a mistake when Henry is the one to blame. The guy is a train wreck and if he cant deal with diversity in Cincy what do you think will happen here?

[montrose]

But something's always bothered me about this entire Chad Johnson situation. What did he ever do to get this? He doesn't complain about sharing balls like Javon did. Sure, he dances in the end zone, but that doesn't bother me in the least.

It's like the local newspapers just turned on him. I don't get it. Who decided that Chad was the problem in Cincy?

I cant answer what made them turn on him locally, but nationally - his recent appearances on the ESPN circuit certainly haven't helped. He's an easy person to blame when the reality is Cincinnati spent nearly five years building Indianapolis-light. Carson's good but not as good as Peyton; Rudi's good but not as good as Edge/Addai; Chad; TJ and Henry were good but not as good as Marvin; Reggie, Stokley and Clark; Cincy's OL was good (prior to Steinbach's departure) but not as good as Indy's, and Cincy's defense was even worse than Indy's. The result was only one trip to the playoffs and now that the wheels are falling off, he's an easy person to target. Now Chad sure as hell isn't doing himself any favors with his public comments, but poor FO decisions are more to blame than a cocky WR.

[Northman]

I cant answer what made them turn on him locally, but nationally - his recent appearances on the ESPN circuit certainly haven't helped. He's an easy person to blame when the reality is Cincinnati spent nearly five years building Indianapolis-light. Carson's good but not as good as Peyton; Rudi's good but not as good as Edge/Addai; Chad; TJ and Henry were good but not as good as Marvin; Reggie, Stokley and Clark; Cincy's OL was good (prior to Steinbach's departure) but not as good as Indy's, and Cincy's defense was even worse than Indy's. The result was only one trip to the playoffs and now that the wheels are falling off, he's an easy person to target. Now Chad sure as hell isn't doing himself any favors with his public comments, but poor FO decisions are more to blame than a cocky WR.


Cincy's biggest problem has been what has been Denver's. DEFENSE. If he comes here he will be just as unhappy.

[24champ]

No they cant.

Yes they can. Champ doesn't need to rework anything to bring Elam back. I do agree with the Broncos not paying Elam his 3 million, however they do have the money to pay him that.

I'd like to see Chad Johnson here but I think the Broncos take Mendenhall or Sweed in the first.

[CBF1]

Id rather have Marcus Nash.

LOL LOL Classic LOL LOL

[Dendave]

I'm sure Champ, like most players, would love to have all the great players they can.


I don't know, he wanted his brother here, who is not a good player.

[PLOWHORSE]

Watch more Bengal games and you'll understand. He totally lost control in the Ravens game last year when he ran a wrong route and then got into a shouting match with his Qb. The guy has no accountability when he screws up. Its always someone else's fault when things go wrong. Now, he is quoted as saying letting Henry go was a mistake when Henry is the one to blame. The guy is a train wreck and if he cant deal with diversity in Cincy what do you think will happen here?

Noob-Did you mean Ad-versity? Just checking. I agree with your point. The guy is an ego maniac that would grind Jay into the ground. Not what we need right now.

[Northman]

Yes they can. Champ doesn't need to rework anything to bring Elam back. I do agree with the Broncos not paying Elam his 3 million, however they do have the money to pay him that.

I'd like to see Chad Johnson here but I think the Broncos take Mendenhall or Sweed in the first.


Alright, let me re-clarify. They have the money but cant spend it on him because of the needs in areas on this team. There are too many holes to fill on this team to have a kicker eat up that much money. Not too mention Elam's age which played a large part of it as well. So really, no they dont have the money when you think of all the other areas that need to be addressed.

[Northman]

Noob-Did you mean Ad-versity? Just checking. I agree with your point. The guy is an ego maniac that would grind Jay into the ground. Not what we need right now.

Yea, i meant Adversity. Thank you for clarifying that up for me. Brain fart. Ha!

[The MVPlaya]

Haha yeah Champ! We're on the same page.

You guys are here on forums worried about how players will ACT while players on the team are worried about how players will PERFORM . Are girls watching the game?

Chad is just outspoken. He stays out of trouble and he trains 100%.

Chad is not the same as Javon, I don't know if you guys have problems analyzing personalities but they are different.

Please, Chad Johnson will boost this team up to the next level on offense.

Oh and Chad Johnson is not paid much as far as base salary goes. It's only about 2.5 mill!

Bring Chad in.

[Northman]

Haha yeah Champ! We're on the same page.

You guys are here on forums worried about how players will ACT while players on the team are worried about how players will PERFORM . Are girls watching the game?

Chad is just outspoken. He stays out of trouble and he trains 100%.

Chad is not the same as Javon, I don't know if you guys have problems analyzing personalities but they are different.

Please, Chad Johnson will boost this team up to the next level on offense.

Oh and Chad Johnson is not paid much as far as base salary goes. It's only about 2.5 mill!

Bring Chad in.


No one has ever questioned his talent. You have been quoting that he just wants to win. Well, he wont get that here in Denver. At least not right away so why would he make a lateral move when Denver is still a ways from being a championship team? Guess your not quite as smart as you think you are.

[rbackfactory80]

Haha yeah Champ! We're on the same page.Bring Chad in.



Scary Stuff

[The MVPlaya]

No one has ever questioned his talent. You have been quoting that he just wants to win. Well, he wont get that here in Denver. At least not right away so why would he make a lateral move when Denver is still a ways from being a championship team? Guess your not quite as smart as you think you are.

No? Are we NOT a playoff team? How many people listed the Giants last year to compete in the playoffs?

I don't think Chad has been bitching to go to a championship caliber team, but going to a team thats good and making moves to win.

How the **** is this a lateral move?

lol @ that statement.

[2KBack]

But something's always bothered me about this entire Chad Johnson situation. What did he ever do to get this? He doesn't complain about sharing balls like Javon did. Sure, he dances in the end zone, but that doesn't bother me in the least.

It's like the local newspapers just turned on him. I don't get it. Who decided that Chad was the problem in Cincy?

probably the people who saw him assault his coach

[Northman]

No? Are we NOT a playoff team? How many people listed the Giants last year to compete in the playoffs?

I don't think Chad has been b****ing to go to a championship caliber team, but going to a team thats good and making moves to win.

How the **** is this a lateral move?

lol @ that statement.


We havent been a playoff team for the last 2 years. Where have you been? And Denver making moves to win? We are cash strapped because we made some very questionable moves with high risk players and it has hurt us to this point where we couldnt re-sign our kicker. And yes, it would be a Lateral move considering Denver has gone 7-9 and 9-7 the last two years which is average to poor. Cincy has gone 7-9 and 8-8 the last two years. And with Denver having a youth movement it means we will be working our way back up to be a playoff caliber team which takes time. So yes, its a lateral move.

[broncofan2438]

I would love to have CJ on this team. Don't care what the huff is right now. Just bring him in

[24champ]

I don't know, he wanted his brother here, who is not a good player.

Link? Did he publicly lobby for the Broncos to get him?

[24champ]

Alright, let me re-clarify. They have the money

K thanks. All I needed to hear.

[Kaylore]

I need some help here. Chad is reminding me of Obama with his repeated pleas for this generic change. What is this "Change" Chad wants? Is it a Change is his income? A Change in the coaching staff? A Change in having to share the ball with TJ? What is his gripe? I honestly don't know.

[Northman]

K thanks. All I needed to hear.

Too bad its not all black and white like your line of thinking. But you go on with your bad self. :thumbsup:

[bronco militia]

just say no to Flava Clown WR's and run the ball more.

[Doggcow]

I'll take CJ

[Atlas]

Chad Johnson is a lot like Portis a total clown but at least there are no off field problems with him.

[Dendave]

Link? Did he publicly lobby for the Broncos to get him?

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_8455037

Detroit linebacker Boss Bailey, younger brother of Denver star cornerback Champ Bailey, will visit the Broncos today and Thursday.

The Broncos are looking to finalize a contract while he is on the trip for Bailey to play strongside linebacker. "First of all, we need him, that's the biggest thing above him being my brother," Champ Bailey said Tuesday. "It would be great for us. Hopefully, we'll get it done ... There's no question, this is where Boss wants to be."
San Diego safety Marlin McCree is also visiting today and will choose between Denver and Buffalo.

Looks like a public lobby to me

[epicSocialism4tw]

But something's always bothered me about this entire Chad Johnson situation. What did he ever do to get this? He doesn't complain about sharing balls like Javon did. Sure, he dances in the end zone, but that doesn't bother me in the least.

It's like the local newspapers just turned on him. I don't get it. Who decided that Chad was the problem in Cincy?


Chad is funny. He's no goob like TO or a malcontent like Moss.

He plays games with the media, but hes really pretty subdued when it comes to real issues.

[broncosteven]

Chris Henry was cut this week....

[Vegas_Bronco]

We aren't a good team for 'ISSUE' players. One thing we haven't done well, with all our successes, is properly handle those who have big egos. It's just not the Bronco way! Those who come here leave even faster when they realize that this team gives the spot light to no one.

[epicSocialism4tw]

We aren't a good team for 'ISSUE' players. One thing we haven't done well, with all our successes, is properly handle those who have big egos. It's just not the Bronco way! Those who come here leave even faster when they realize that this team gives the spot light to no one.

I dont think that Chad would have that problem.

[montrose]

We aren't a good team for 'ISSUE' players. One thing we haven't done well, with all our successes, is properly handle those who have big egos. It's just not the Bronco way! Those who come here leave even faster when they realize that this team gives the spot light to no one.

Especially right now. With Rod essentially gone, Lynch, Champ and Nalen are really the only guys left with leadership credibility and none of those guys strike me as the type of leader Chad needs to be babysat. Philly would be an ideal spot, they need a #1, could pay him and D-Mac should command the respect from him necessary. Right now we need to put our attention to watching BMarsh, not bringing in another guy to babysit.

[NFLBRONCO]

Well I say no on Chad but, see Champ see's like I do WR needs upgrades.

[broncosteven]

Champ should know the answer to his issue.

In order to upgrade the WR Shanny should have him play WR and CB.

[iforgotmypassword]

ditto on the champ playin WR... third downs...... id take chad, 2.5 a year, and he alot different then TO or Moss

[Hogan11]

I dont think that Chad would have that problem.

Absolutely he would. I suspect the root of Chad's "problem" in Sincy is not really "wanting to win" but moreso that team's disappearance from the national spotlight after tanking last season. Afterall, no national exsposure = no face time, which leads to fewer endorsements, etc. etc. etc. The showman demands an audience and once they're deprived of that, all hell generally breaks loose with these guys. Denver has had a down season and will probably be on national TV far less in '08 as a result making it far from a desirable place for Ocho Droppo and his ilk.

Nevertheless from my own personal standpoint, just like any ahole brought onto the team, if he put on the Broncos jersey, I still wouldn't root for him on Sunday and hate him just as much as I do now.

Sorry kids, we'll never have to worry about it for real anyways.

[rovolution]

Especially right now. With Rod essentially gone, Lynch, Champ and Nalen are really the only guys left with leadership credibility and none of those guys strike me as the type of leader Chad needs to be babysat. Philly would be an ideal spot, they need a #1, could pay him and D-Mac should command the respect from him necessary. Right now we need to put our attention to watching BMarsh, not bringing in another guy to babysit.

id like to add Jay to that list of leaders as well.

He started with it late last season and now everyone including Champ needs to realize that Jay is the franchise player.

Jays way or the highway baby!!!!!!


BTW...could anyone get or make an audio file of this interview?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Absolutely he would. I suspect the root of Chad's "problem" in Sincy is not really "wanting to win" but moreso that team's disappearance from the national spotlight after tanking last season. Afterall, no national exsposure = no face time, which leads to fewer endorsements, etc. etc. etc. The showman demands an audience and once they're deprived of that, all hell generally breaks loose with these guys. Denver has had a down season and will probably be on national TV far less in '08 as a result making it far from a desirable place for Ocho Droppo and his ilk.

Nevertheless from my own personal standpoint, just like any ahole brought onto the team, if he put on the Broncos jersey, I still wouldn't root for him on Sunday and hate him just as much as I do now.

Sorry kids, we'll never have to worry about it for real anyways.


I dont think that Chad is the problem .

[broncofan2438]

Bring In Chad . . . Bring In Chad . . . Bring In Chad

[bronco militia]

Champ should STFU, focus on football, and let the Front Office worry about who's a Bronco.

[rovolution]

Champ should STFU, focus on football, and let the Front Office worry about who's a Bronco.

REP.

The thing i have a problem with is Champ saying Shanny is on the hot seat even though everyone knows this team will struggle due to rebuilding

Champ needs to realize Mike Shanahan has won 3 championships without him and that everyone except Jay is expendable.

[24champ]

Champ should STFU, focus on football, and let the Front Office worry about who's a Bronco.

Yeah how's that front office doing in rebuilding the DL? Or the OL for that matter?

I like that Champ doesn't tow the company line and points out problems on this team. That's a real leader, not someone that says everything is real peachy in Denver.

[Houshyamama]

Watch more Bengal games and you'll understand. He totally lost control in the Ravens game last year when he ran a wrong route and then got into a shouting match with his Qb. The guy has no accountability when he screws up. Its always someone else's fault when things go wrong. Now, he is quoted as saying letting Henry go was a mistake when Henry is the one to blame. The guy is a train wreck and if he cant deal with diversity in Cincy what do you think will happen here?

What does an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era have to do with anything here?

[Northman]

What does an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era have to do with anything here?

Read on. It is explained quite plainly for you.

[kmonty]

BTW...could anyone get or make an audio file of this interview?

I'm working on that... I recorded it my Sirius S50, which has some weird encryption that prevents me from just translating it to MP3. Hopefully I'll have it up over the weekend.

I just posted some more quotes from the interview, this time about Brandon Marshall. It's on BroncoTalk now.

[BroncoMan4ever]

why is everyone suddenly pissed that Champ is starting to show his annoyance with the team? I am sure when he came here in the Prtis trade, Shanny gave him that whole speech of how the team is a winner and he will be a big time player in big time games and in the time since he came here, he has been in the playoffs twice and only 1 win.

If anything he should have been complaining last year. And now that the team is letting a guy who won more than half the teams games last season walk and BMarsh hurting himself, he is right that the team needs playmakers, and ocho cinco may be an annoying turd been truth is he can play and is one of the top playmakers in the league.

[socalorado]

So once again, i will repost my original trade scenario, and get some opinions here since this topic just wont die.

DEN gets WR CHAD JOHNSON
CIN gets DEN 2009 1ST ROUND DRAFT PICK
Straight up. period.

So, is this a worthy trade or not?
I am personally not saying that DEN SHOULD do this.
I am simply using it as a gauge to see if posters are
willing to take this knucklehead in as a player in DEN.
Yea or Nay????
And if not, what is a "worthy" trade scenario for Mr. "Ocho Stinko"???

[kmonty]

So once again, i will repost my original trade scenario, and get some opinions here since this topic just wont die.

DEN gets WR CHAD JOHNSON
CIN gets DEN 2009 1ST ROUND DRAFT PICK
Straight up. period.

So, is this a worthy trade or not?
I am personally not saying that DEN SHOULD do this.
I am simply using it as a gauge to see if posters are
willing to take this knucklehead in as a player in DEN.
Yea or Nay????
And if not, what is a "worthy" trade scenario for Mr. "Ocho Stinko"???

I can dig it

[Northman]

So once again, i will repost my original trade scenario, and get some opinions here since this topic just wont die.

DEN gets WR CHAD JOHNSON
CIN gets DEN 2009 1ST ROUND DRAFT PICK
Straight up. period.

So, is this a worthy trade or not?
I am personally not saying that DEN SHOULD do this.
I am simply using it as a gauge to see if posters are
willing to take this knucklehead in as a player in DEN.
Yea or Nay????
And if not, what is a "worthy" trade scenario for Mr. "Ocho Stinko"???


Personally no. Johnson is a head case and for Johnson fans who think just because he isnt hanging out in bars that he is a good teamate is ridiculous. His constant appetite for the cameras is a major distraction and now he is whining about not winning. If he came to Denver and we didnt make the playoffs next year he would still continue to complain and cry. It just isnt worth it in the long run. And with Brandon being a question mark as far as attitude there is just too many ego's there. There are more receivers than Johnson both in FA and in the draft.

[Doggcow]

Champ plays my #3 WR in Madden (Javon still #2). He can step in and play for us.

[NFLBRONCO]

So once again, i will repost my original trade scenario, and get some opinions here since this topic just wont die.

DEN gets WR CHAD JOHNSON
CIN gets DEN 2009 1ST ROUND DRAFT PICK
Straight up. period.

So, is this a worthy trade or not?
I am personally not saying that DEN SHOULD do this.
I am simply using it as a gauge to see if posters are
willing to take this knucklehead in as a player in DEN.
Yea or Nay????
And if not, what is a "worthy" trade scenario for Mr. "Ocho Stinko"???

I say no we don't need the trouble here period. Too many focus on talent alone and baggage disappears when the thought of him coming here. Then he gets here he whines about not enough passes and wants out within 2 yrs we are stuck with his huge cap number. No offense nice idea but, I'd not be happy if this happened.

[Man-Goblin]

I can dig it

Let me get this straight; you have a problem with Champ's outspokeness as of late, yet you want Chad Johnson here. True?

[RunSilentRunDeep]

Champ plays my #3 WR in Madden (Javon still #2). He can step in and play for us.

Champ sucks as a WR. He wasn't that great in college and was horrible when Shanny gave him a chance.

[Tha rock]

Chad wont be traded due to an 8.5 million dollar cap hit

[TomServo]

Ah, the same Ol lets bring in a primadonna wide reciever debate. So How many Me-first recievers helped their teams win a SB? Jerry Rice doesnt count-he pretty much kept his mouth shut and collected SB rings.
So how many rings does Terell Owens have? Ocho Stupido? thats right, Zero. wide recievers can help a team but they can fudge up a team even more when they want the ball and the glory. Terrel Owens Fudged up TWO teams before he went to dallas.
Rod Smith-2 SB rings. TO and Ocho Dumbasso-No Rings.
Dont want him dont need him.

[Taco John]

Shannon Sharpe had a mouth to. As I remember it, I loved it -- but more than that, I loved the fact that he could back it up.

[TomServo]

Shannon Sharpe had a mouth to. As I remember it, I loved it -- but more than that, I loved the fact that he could back it up.

But he was funny, how funny is TO Or Ocho Crapola?
Shannon has 3 rings to back up his big mouth. TO and Ocho Idiota? again, Zero

[Killericon]

But he was funny, how funny is TO Or Ocho Crapola?
Shannon has 3 rings to back up his big mouth. TO and Ocho Idiota? again, Zero

That's the difference? Oy veh.

I have no problem with Chad(Except that ESPN interview he gave...Ugh). I don't know about how I'd feel about him being a Bronco...Probably pretty excited...But it's never gonna happen. Champ is a team leader and a model pro, but he sees the FO gearing towards bilding for the future and that's not what he wants. If I were him, I'd want Chad on board too.

[kmonty]

Let me get this straight; you have a problem with Champ's outspokeness as of late, yet you want Chad Johnson here. True?

I don't remember saying I have a problem with Champ's outspokeness. I said I was surprised this was coming from Champ ('this' = his words on Shanahan, Marshall, Elam, etc.).

On Chad - this article from Larry Brown Sports pretty much sums up my opinion on the guy.
http://larrybrownsports.com/football/chad-johnson-not-problem-cincy/

[montrose]

Shannon Sharpe had a mouth to. As I remember it, I loved it -- but more than that, I loved the fact that he could back it up.

I loved it too but I have a hard time comparing Sharpe to Johnson. Both are/were great players who were entertaining and had mouths, but Sharpe had incredible work ethic and has been constantly praised by guys like Elway, TD, Rod, Schlereth and others as an incredible competitor and moreso - a great teammate. I remember living in Baltimore in 2000 when the Ravens won their Super Bowl and throughout the season, and following their championship, Ray Lewis, Rod Woodson, Trent Dilfer and others said Sharpe's leadership and ability to bring the locker room together was just as important to their team as that great defense. I've never heard anything like that said about Chad. Chad seems to be more about Chad whereas Shannon was about the team. I'm not saying a guy like Chad wouldn't be good to have on your team - in this era of the NFL you're bound to have some guys that are a bit flashy and selfish, but those guys can still help your football team win games because of their talent (I see BMarsh being in this category as well). But it's in comparison to those types of players that we can reflect on how truly special Shannon was.

As far as the ridiculous notion of bringing Chad here, if (at this time of rebuilding and budgeting) we were going to splurge on a veteran by giving away picks and signing a guy to a new deal - we might as well work on Haynesworth. I imagine the draft compensation wouldn't be too much different (a 1st and 3rd?), nor would be the money and Haynesworth would make a much bigger impact for us at a position of greater need.

[TheReverend]

I loved it too but I have a hard time comparing Sharpe to Johnson. Both are/were great players who were entertaining and had mouths, but Sharpe had incredible work ethic and has been constantly praised by guys like Elway, TD, Rod, Schlereth and others as an incredible competitor and moreso - a great teammate. I remember living in Baltimore in 2000 when the Ravens won their Super Bowl and throughout the season, and following their championship, Ray Lewis, Rod Woodson, Trent Dilfer and others said Sharpe's leadership and ability to bring the locker room together was just as important to their team as that great defense. I've never heard anything like that said about Chad. Chad seems to be more about Chad whereas Shannon was about the team. I'm not saying a guy like Chad wouldn't be good to have on your team - in this era of the NFL you're bound to have some guys that are a bit flashy and selfish, but those guys can still help your football team win games because of their talent (I see BMarsh being in this category as well). But it's in comparison to those types of players that we can reflect on how truly special Shannon was.

As far as the ridiculous notion of bringing Chad here, if (at this time of rebuilding and budgeting) we were going to splurge on a veteran by giving away picks and signing a guy to a new deal - we might as well work on Haynesworth. I imagine the draft compensation wouldn't be too much different (a 1st and 3rd?), nor would be the money and Haynesworth would make a much bigger impact for us at a position of greater need.

Chad does have a strong work ethic. He and Carson would watch Indy games and take notes on Peyton/Marvin (dead serious). Also, the reason he and Champ are friends are from their old off-season work outs with Deion.

That being said, the big difference between Shannon and Chad, is that Shannon never punched his coach in the face.

Maybe it was the breaking point of a messed up situation... but no thanks. That's past the line.

[montrose]

Chad does have a strong work ethic. He and Carson would watch Indy games and take notes on Peyton/Marvin (dead serious). Also, the reason he and Champ are friends are from their old off-season work outs with Deion.

That being said, the big difference between Shannon and Chad, is that Shannon never punched his coach in the face.

Maybe it was the breaking point of a messed up situation... but no thanks. That's past the line.

I suppose I should've written passion instead of work ethic. I don't doubt Chad works his butt off, but I've always gotten the impression that the celebrations, the interviews and now the acting gig have been just as much about Chad as his passion for winning football games. I just don't get the sense from Chad that he eats, sleeps and breathes football that I did from Shannon. That's not the end of the world by a long shot, my point was moreso that players like Shannon come around once in a lifetime = talent, passion, drive and heart brought together to form arguably the game's greatest TE of all time and one of this franchise's proudest alumni. Chad is a very good player that will be looked back upon as a guy who was as much an entertainer as a WR. Sharpe will be remembered as one of the game's greats that liked to talk. I simply wanted to respond to the comparison of Sharpe and Johnson. Both great talkers, both very talented but one had the "it" factor rarely seen in sports - the other doesn't.

[Killericon]

I suppose I should've written passion instead of work ethic. I don't doubt Chad works his butt off, but I've always gotten the impression that the celebrations, the interviews and now the acting gig have been just as much about Chad as his passion for winning. I just don't get the sense from Chad that he eats, sleeps and breathes football that I did from Shannon. That's not the end of the world by a long shot, my point was moreso that players like Shannon come around once in a lifetime = talent, passion, drive and heart brought together to form arguably the game's greatest TE of all time and one of this franchise's proudest alumni.

I think Chad cares more about winning than 99% of the players in the league. I heard most of the interviews he gave last year on Sirius, and I got the sense that he was working his ass off to get the team winning again, and when it wasn't working, he just got really frustrated. I don't blame him not wanting to go through that again. He gave it his all, and he had nothing to show for it.

[TheReverend]

I suppose I should've written passion instead of work ethic. I don't doubt Chad works his butt off, but I've always gotten the impression that the celebrations, the interviews and now the acting gig have been just as much about Chad as his passion for winning football games. I just don't get the sense from Chad that he eats, sleeps and breathes football that I did from Shannon. That's not the end of the world by a long shot, my point was moreso that players like Shannon come around once in a lifetime = talent, passion, drive and heart brought together to form arguably the game's greatest TE of all time and one of this franchise's proudest alumni. Chad is a very good player that will be looked back upon as a guy who was as much an entertainer as a WR. Sharpe will be remembered as one of the game's greats that liked to talk. I simply wanted to respond to the comparison of Sharpe and Johnson. Both great talkers, both very talented but one had the "it" factor rarely seen in sports - the other doesn't.

...that might be a stretch.

[Hogan11]

Shannon Sharpe had a mouth to. As I remember it, I loved it -- but more than that, I loved the fact that he could back it up.

Backing it up on the field NEVER makes being a jerk acceptable.....NEVER.

..and neither does wearing a Broncos jersey. Sharpe was a great player (nobody can take that away from him) , but I found his mouth and whole persona to be embarrassing...and I still do.

[Atlas]

Yeah how's that front office doing in rebuilding the DL? Or the OL for that matter?

I like that Champ doesn't tow the company line and points out problems on this team. That's a real leader, not someone that says everything is real peachy in Denver.

He has never said a word until this offseason. I think that's only because after this season he is going to want to be released, traded or his contract re-done.

[Beantown Bronco]

Ah, the same Ol lets bring in a primadonna wide reciever debate. So How many Me-first recievers helped their teams win a SB? Jerry Rice doesnt count-he pretty much kept his mouth shut and collected SB rings.
So how many rings does Terell Owens have? Ocho Stupido? thats right, Zero. wide recievers can help a team but they can fudge up a team even more when they want the ball and the glory. Terrel Owens Fudged up TWO teams before he went to dallas.
Rod Smith-2 SB rings. TO and Ocho Dumbasso-No Rings.
Dont want him dont need him.

Poor example. TO is certainly not the reason Philly didn't win the SB vs. the Pats. The guy had 9 freakin receptions for 122 yards on one leg.

[Tombstone RJ]

So once again, i will repost my original trade scenario, and get some opinions here since this topic just wont die.

DEN gets WR CHAD JOHNSON
CIN gets DEN 2009 1ST ROUND DRAFT PICK
Straight up. period.

So, is this a worthy trade or not?
I am personally not saying that DEN SHOULD do this.
I am simply using it as a gauge to see if posters are
willing to take this knucklehead in as a player in DEN.
Yea or Nay????
And if not, what is a "worthy" trade scenario for Mr. "Ocho Stinko"???

No way Cincy goes for this trade. Plus, 85 is nothing but trouble for the Broncos.

[Tombstone RJ]

Ah, the same Ol lets bring in a primadonna wide reciever debate. So How many Me-first recievers helped their teams win a SB? Jerry Rice doesnt count-he pretty much kept his mouth shut and collected SB rings.
So how many rings does Terell Owens have? Ocho Stupido? thats right, Zero. wide recievers can help a team but they can fudge up a team even more when they want the ball and the glory. Terrel Owens Fudged up TWO teams before he went to dallas.
Rod Smith-2 SB rings. TO and Ocho Dumbasso-No Rings.
Dont want him dont need him.

QFT.

Another good WR who just does his job is Marvin Harrison who also now has a ring.

Look, the Broncos already have a prima-donna WR in Brandon Marshall (he's certainly heading in that direction). Another high maintenance WR is not what this football team needs.

What this team needs is a great running game, not a good running game, a great running game. This team needs a great RB and a better oline to get this done. This team also needs a solid TE to help move the ball down the field and be an outlet in third down situations.

This team needs TD's more consistently in the redzone and a better oline and RB and TE can help that situation. The last thing this team needs is distractions.

[Northman]

Poor example. TO is certainly not the reason Philly didn't win the SB vs. the Pats. The guy had 9 freakin receptions for 122 yards on one leg.

Its not really a poor example. He had a great SB sure. But after all was said and done he helped self destruct his football team because he couldnt keep his mouth shut. This is no different with Johnson. His team is facing adversity and all he can do is complain and whine instead of helping to make things better. Its not surprising that guys like TO and Moss who put up great numbers still dont have rings. While guys who go out and just play the game like Harrison and Holt do have rings. People underestimate how much of a distraction that Johnson is.

[Willynowei]

1st round pick? who trades a 1st round pick for a disgruntled widereceiver that has no intention of staying with a team that can't even afford him? (assuming they keep Houshmenzada(SP))

If Chad came here we would be giving up very little, I'm sure.

[Merlin]

Denver's problems are at the OL and DL, not WR (comparatively speaking). You fix the OL, the team's offence looks a lot better (it actually was pretty good statistically last yr, with a first yr QB, 2nd yr WR, and a porous OL). I rather the draft an money go there. Chad is a luxury this team can neither afford financially or psychologically (too many young players being groomed for his attitude to influence). Let Dallas have him. They have the money and can use the luxury.

[broncofan2438]

This has gotten out of hand, considering it will never happen

[NFLBRONCO]

Backing it up on the field NEVER makes being a jerk acceptable.....NEVER.

..and neither does wearing a Broncos jersey. Sharpe was a great player (nobody can take that away from him) , but I found his mouth and whole persona to be embarrassing...and I still do.

I respect your views Hogan. I have to agree with TJ on this one he backed up his talk with great play. Funny thing to me is when he talked alot he was a HOF player it made him super on the field. When he kept him mouth shut I thought he wasn't half as good of a player his talk seemed to energize him. This team is so blah I'd like a player with some personality.

[montrose]

...that might be a stretch.

More of an expression than anything. It's a mute point anyhow.

[DarkHorse30]

Why would Denver want to saddle it's young QB with TWO headcase WRs? If Marshall wasn't a problem to deal with, maybe get Johnson....but not with all of the character questions they are already dealing with. Remember that Henry also carries baggage.

Forget about the skill players and concentrate on both sides of the line in this draft. Rebuild. period.

[Dagmar]

This is one of these ridiculous discussions that happen over the offseason right?

[Beantown Bronco]

I'm curious to see the answer to this question from some of the folks here who feel it would be nice to have Chad Johnson, but simply believe we shouldn't spend the money on that particular position when we have other needs:

If Marshall does not come back 100% from his injury and has trouble catching the ball and holding onto it with his damaged hand (I have yet to see any doctor rule this out as a possibility), which becomes a bigger weakness: WR or OLine? Would you feel strongly going into the season with no real legit #1 or even #2 receiver?

I keep reading here about how urgent it is to invest any spare money in the OLine (and don't get me wrong, I have been a strong proponent of drafting OLine in round one this year), but isn't it at least possible that this injury changes things significantly?

And before you answer, I would ask that you re-watch clips of (or at least try to remember back to) the Broncos offensive line from the first two weeks of the season, when Nalen and Hamilton were healthy and Travis Henry was healthy and leading the league in yardage. The OLine and the running game were the absolute least of our worries.

[Beantown Bronco]

Its not really a poor example. He had a great SB sure. But after all was said and done he helped self destruct his football team because he couldnt keep his mouth shut. This is no different with Johnson. His team is facing adversity and all he can do is complain and whine instead of helping to make things better. Its not surprising that guys like TO and Moss who put up great numbers still dont have rings. While guys who go out and just play the game like Harrison and Holt do have rings. People underestimate how much of a distraction that Johnson is.

I'll stand by my statement. Poor example.

If being a good guy "who goes out and just plays the game like Harrison and Holt" guaranteed a SB ring, then why doesn't Champ have one?

I could go on and on with names of "good guys" that don't have rings.

And I could go on and on with names of "whiners" like TO and Moss that DO have rings. Just because those two don't doesn't mean it has anything to do with them.

Was Moss the reason the Pats didn't win the SB last year? Was TO the reason the Eagles didn't win the SB that year?

No and no.

[Hogan11]

I respect your views Hogan. I have to agree with TJ on this one he backed up his talk with great play. Funny thing to me is when he talked alot he was a HOF player it made him super on the field. When he kept him mouth shut I thought he wasn't half as good of a player his talk seemed to energize him. This team is so blah I'd like a player with some personality.

This is where I differ from a lot of my Bronco bretheren. I took a lot of heat over the years because I didn't like Shannon's mouth and antics...more than I ever did (or have) for Portis, Marshall, et. al. I just generally despise that type of player in pro sports (not just football) and it goes across the board, whether they play on the teams I support or not.

In Sharpe's case where you say when he kept quiet, he was half the player out there, I have to disagree on the grounds that I honestly can't remember when he didn't run his mouth and act like an ass. Nevertheless, personality is overrated...if proof is needed, look to the 2005 team that went to the AFC Championship Game....not one ahole or showman in the bunch and they exceeded all expectations for that year. Absolutely no distractions that season due to someone's "personality" and it was beautiful.

[Inkana7]

This is where I differ from a lot of my Bronco bretheren. I took a lot of heat over the years because I didn't like Shannon's mouth and antics...more than I ever did (or have) for Portis, Marshall, et. al. I just generally despise that type of player in pro sports (not just football) and it goes across the board, whether they play on the teams I support or not.

In Sharpe's case where you say when he kept quiet, he was half the player out there, I have to disagree on the grounds that I honestly can't remember when he didn't run his mouth and act like an ass. Nevertheless, personality is overrated...if proof is needed, look to the 2005 team that went to the AFC Championship Game....not one ahole or showman in the bunch and they exceeded all expectations for that year. Absolutely no distractions that season due to someone's "personality" and it was beautiful.

And we didn't win a thing.

[Hogan11]

And we didn't win a thing.

AFC West Championship and a playoff victory.....something we haven't sniffed since

[rovolution]

if proof is needed, look to the 2005 team that went to the AFC Championship Game....not one ahole or showman in the bunch and they exceeded all expectations for that year. Absolutely no distractions that season due to someone's "personality" and it was beautiful.

Argueable.

I never liked Trevor Pryce. The guy even said before the 2005 AFC Title game we will not win this game and then his mentality probably seeped to the rest of the team.

[Hogan11]

Argueable.

I never liked Trevor Pryce. The guy even said before the 2005 AFC Title game we will not win this game and then his mentality probably seeped to the rest of the team.

Honestly, I don't remember him running his mouth or causing any distractions that season...but even if he did, it didn't play out or amount to very much...nothing like the mouth or antics of a say Chad Johnson would've. If I remember correctly, he was pretty much a bit player on that Brownco DlIne anyways.

[Northman]

I'll stand by my statement. Poor example.

If being a good guy "who goes out and just plays the game like Harrison and Holt" guaranteed a SB ring, then why doesn't Champ have one?

I could go on and on with names of "good guys" that don't have rings.

And I could go on and on with names of "whiners" like TO and Moss that DO have rings. Just because those two don't doesn't mean it has anything to do with them.

Was Moss the reason the Pats didn't win the SB last year? Was TO the reason the Eagles didn't win the SB that year?

No and no.


Were they the sole reasons? No. But did they help their teams by creating distractions off the field? No.

[NFLBRONCO]

This is where I differ from a lot of my Bronco bretheren. I took a lot of heat over the years because I didn't like Shannon's mouth and antics...more than I ever did (or have) for Portis, Marshall, et. al. I just generally despise that type of player in pro sports (not just football) and it goes across the board, whether they play on the teams I support or not.

In Sharpe's case where you say when he kept quiet, he was half the player out there, I have to disagree on the grounds that I honestly can't remember when he didn't run his mouth and act like an ass. Nevertheless, personality is overrated...if proof is needed, look to the 2005 team that went to the AFC Championship Game....not one ahole or showman in the bunch and they exceeded all expectations for that year. Absolutely no distractions that season due to someone's "personality" and it was beautiful.

Hey Hogan that's cool I wasn't really busting your chops anyway. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. I liked Portis as well even when most didn't like his actions either.

As far as Sharpe when he rejoined Denver after his stint with the Ravens he was more subdued and I felt he wasn't as good of a player when he was like that imo but, that's just me.

[wolf754life]

I can say what I wanna say, Aint nothin to it, Gangsta rap made me do it!

Mikey Mansion will save the day for us!

[TheReverend]

Argueable.

I never liked Trevor Pryce. The guy even said before the 2005 AFC Title game we will not win this game and then his mentality probably seeped to the rest of the team.

Bull****.

[rovolution]

Bull****.

its true. If i find the quote ill post it here.

[~Crash~]

its true. If i find the quote ill post it here.

I agee you are full of something :peace:

[rovolution]

I agee you are full of something :peace:

i cant believe you guys dont remember reading this. whatever

[Northman]

i cant believe you guys dont remember reading this. whatever


Hate to say it, i dont recall Trevor making that statement either. But then again, i wasnt in Denver at that time. But i would think that with a statement like that from a team hosting a AFC Championship game that it would have been more memorable and a bigger news story.

[rovolution]

Hate to say it, i dont recall Trevor making that statement either. But then again, i wasnt in Denver at that time. But i would think that with a statement like that from a team hosting a AFC Championship game that it would have been more memorable and a bigger news story.

it didnt come out till after the game was played. But ill never forgive Trevor for that. He had the "feeling" before the NE game and the he said something along the lines of he didnt have the "feeling" before the Pitt game, and when you go out and play with a mentality like that, you are admitting defeat before the game even started.

God, i hate that loss. That loss just makes me want to break something b/c its the closest weve ever been to sniffing a SB since #7, and since Shanny and the FO look like they are in full rebuilding mode, its probably the closest we'll be to a SB for a loong time.

ARGHH the season needs to start now. I need some things validated. Can this team compete with the Patriots? Can we defeat them even with Randy Moss? Can we score more than 20 pts against the Chargers in a single game?

[Northman]

it didnt come out till after the game was played. But ill never forgive Trevor for that. He had the "feeling" before the NE game and the he said something along the lines of he didnt have the "feeling" before the Pitt game, and when you go out and play with a mentality like that, you are admitting defeat before the game even started.

God, i hate that loss. That loss just makes me want to break something b/c its the closest weve ever been to sniffing a SB since #7, and since Shanny and the FO look like they are in full rebuilding mode, its probably the closest we'll be to a SB for a loong time.

ARGHH the season needs to start now. I need some things validated. Can this team compete with the Patriots? Can we defeat them even with Randy Moss? Can we score more than 20 pts against the Chargers in a single game?


Ahh, well if he made the statement after the game its a little more understandable. But he was on the outs with Shanahan and the Broncos anyway so it might have been twice the frustration. I thought you were saying he made the statement before the game. As for the second paragraph, yea i hate the loss too. I really thought that we caught a break with not having to go to Indy but give Pitt some credit. They came in and bullied us around and we couldnt win the turnover battle. Can we compete with the Pats? As of right now no. But maybe after the draft and the rest of FA we may know a little better of how this year will play out. I really really hope we have a great draft. We need one desperately.

[vancejohnson82]

oh my god, the pitt loss...one of those games i basically couldnt watch i was so sick to my stomach

kept changing the channel only to come back and HOPE that we could make a big play

still can remember champ missing that pick on that out to HInes Ward, where it deflected off of him and ended in a first down (eventual touchdown)....knew right there it was over

[Doggcow]

oh my god, the pitt loss...one of those games i basically couldnt watch i was so sick to my stomach

kept changing the channel only to come back and HOPE that we could make a big play

still can remember champ missing that pick on that out to HInes Ward, where it deflected off of him and ended in a first down (eventual touchdown)....knew right there it was over

I remember that play. Had Champ picked it, he had 6, and I know we would have won the superbowl over Seattle.

*sigh*

[The MVPlaya]

I'll stand by my statement. Poor example.

If being a good guy "who goes out and just plays the game like Harrison and Holt" guaranteed a SB ring, then why doesn't Champ have one?

I could go on and on with names of "good guys" that don't have rings.

And I could go on and on with names of "whiners" like TO and Moss that DO have rings. Just because those two don't doesn't mean it has anything to do with them.

Was Moss the reason the Pats didn't win the SB last year? Was TO the reason the Eagles didn't win the SB that year?

No and no.

Exactly. People overrate this distraction bull****.

How about Dennis Rodman and the Bulls???

[TomServo]

I remember that play. Had Champ picked it, he had 6, and I know we would have won the superbowl over Seattle.


just like the Washinton SB when doug williams just dropped the ball and simon fletcher(?)took it in for td. Totally different game if the play hadnt been blown dead.
and i Still dont want a mouth (and team cancer) like chad johnson on our team. rod smith has played on some bad bronco teams but has he ever b****ed and moaned to the media?

[TomServo]

anyway again. how many rings did t.o. and johnson help there teams win? great recievers are nice but unless they are jerry rice they rarely are the difference in a teams won loss record. even with carson palmer what the bloody hell difference did ol chad help the defense or the running game? great receviers can help a team but not when they are more worried about their gay touchdown celebrations.

[SoCalBronco]

I'm curious to see the answer to this question from some of the folks here who feel it would be nice to have Chad Johnson, but simply believe we shouldn't spend the money on that particular position when we have other needs:

If Marshall does not come back 100% from his injury and has trouble catching the ball and holding onto it with his damaged hand (I have yet to see any doctor rule this out as a possibility), which becomes a bigger weakness: WR or OLine? Would you feel strongly going into the season with no real legit #1 or even #2 receiver?

I keep reading here about how urgent it is to invest any spare money in the OLine (and don't get me wrong, I have been a strong proponent of drafting OLine in round one this year), but isn't it at least possible that this injury changes things significantly?

And before you answer, I would ask that you re-watch clips of (or at least try to remember back to) the Broncos offensive line from the first two weeks of the season, when Nalen and Hamilton were healthy and Travis Henry was healthy and leading the league in yardage. The OLine and the running game were the absolute least of our worries.

Your question is a good one, but I don't think it changes the analysis much. It is well established that Denver generally cannot make a relationship with this type of player work. Denver also requires a great deal of funds to be able to keep many of the key pieces of our foundation. For example, all of the following starters will be unrestricted free agents or restricted free agents this next summer: Brandon Marshall, Elvis Dumervil, D.J. Williams, Tony Scheffler and Chris Kuper. Other important players, while not technically starters, also will be RFAs or UFAs within this time span, see e.g. Domonique Foxworth, Karl Paymah et al. It is doubtful that Denver will be able to keep a satisfactory number of these players while still doling out huge bucks to Chad Johnson.

There are other concerns, as well. First, this kind of acquisition would be completely premature: You have raised the spectre of Brandon Marshall never being the same again, even when he is ready to play. This might very well be right and in fact, I fear this greatly. We still, though, do not know, whether we will reach that point or not. It might be that, as Shanny says, he will be completely fine in 4 months. I don't want to latch on to what he says as being true, because we don't know that and frankly alot of what he has said before has been completely wrong, but the fact remains that there is an uncertainty. I think we will know in a few months, but it seems unwise to make a huge investment when we do not know for certain that Marshall will or won't be a ghost of his previous self. There's no need to commit ourselves (financially) to something unnecessarily. If it turns out to be an incorrect assumption, then we would have created a new problem for ourselves unnecessarily: after all, if he (Marshall) turns out OK, it would be absurd that we blew our wad on Johnson and are now not in a good position financially to resign Marshall. If we were able to keep both, then we would be overinvested at one position and we would be necessarily forced to spread ourselves too thinly at other places. I would refer to the problem we had a few years ago where we did not (could not?) commit the proper financial resources to the DL because we were overinvested at linebacker. Overall it seems that we're asking ourselves to make a risky gamble on something without knowing whether we really need to do it or not. Why should we do that? Do we not remember the lessons of Terry Pierce when we gambled a year in advance that we would not be able to resign Al and when we did, the kid had nowhere to go and a second rounder had been unnecessarily burned when we could have simply waited another year and had we still been apart on terms, we could have drafted an ILB (in addition to the OLB that we drafted..after all we had 4 first day picks that year, we could have certainly used two on LBs) at that time, franchising Al for a single year so as to get the pick up to speed. But no, we made the decision a year before we had to and it turned out to be totally unnecessary and a totally rash judgement. If Shanny/Greek turn out to be right on Marshall and we panic and sign Johnson when we don't know for sure what will happen, the effects will be ruinous when trying to sign all our other guys, especially Marshall. If Shanny/Greek turn out to be wrong, all that will be sacrificed (potentially) if we do not trade for Johnson (or otherwise address the position, which I think we should, say in the 3rd round if we can trade down and get a pick there) is simply one year, that's it(that is, after this season, we would then have a summer to address the problem more substantially if we gamble that Marshall is going to be ok and we're wrong)......a year I suspect that was not going to be a good one, anyway. I would submit to you that if we look at it from this perspective, the logical choice is therefore staying away from Johnson. The comparative risk/reward ratio in these two situations dictate it, IMO.

There is yet another concern with Chad Johnson, even assuming all the other possible issues work themselves out (highly unlikely). He's already 30 years old. Is it wise to make a significant investment in a WR that is already 30? How long can Denver reasonably expect him to be a top flight WR? 2 years? Maybe 3 maximum? That looks alot more like a short term shot in the arm than anything else. That type of thing is supposedly what we are trying to get away from....the short term fixes that have ruinous effects on us cap wise when they don't work out. We're supposed to be switching to a more long term strategy and this would not jive with that, even if all of the other objections are somehow satisfied, which I don't think they will be.

[clint7]

Your question is a good one, but I don't think it changes the analysis much. It is well established that Denver generally cannot make a relationship with this type of player work. Denver also requires a great deal of funds to be able to keep many of the key pieces of our foundation. For example, all of the following starters will be unrestricted free agents or restricted free agents this next summer: Brandon Marshall, Elvis Dumervil, D.J. Williams, Tony Scheffler and Chris Kuper. Other important players, while not technically starters, also will be RFAs or UFAs within this time span, see e.g. Domonique Foxworth, Karl Paymah et al. It is doubtful that Denver will be able to keep a satisfactory number of these players while still doling out huge bucks to Chad Johnson.

There are other concerns, as well. First, this kind of acquisition would be completely premature: You have raised the spectre of Brandon Marshall never being the same again, even when he is ready to play. This might very well be right and in fact, I fear this greatly. We still, though, do not know, whether we will reach that point or not. It might be that, as Shanny says, he will be completely fine in 4 months. I don't want to latch on to what he says as being true, because we don't know that and frankly alot of what he has said before has been completely wrong, but the fact remains that there is an uncertainty. I think we will know in a few months, but it seems unwise to make a huge investment when we do not know for certain that Marshall will or won't be a ghost of his previous self. There's no need to commit ourselves (financially) to something unnecessarily. If it turns out to be an incorrect assumption, then we would have created a new problem for ourselves unnecessarily: after all, if he (Marshall) turns out OK, it would be absurd that we blew our wad on Johnson and are now not in a good position financially to resign Marshall. If we were able to keep both, then we would be overinvested at one position and we would be necessarily forced to spread ourselves too thinly at other places. I would refer to the problem we had a few years ago where we did not (could not?) commit the proper financial resources to the DL because we were overinvested at linebacker. Overall it seems that we're asking ourselves to make a risky gamble on something without knowing whether we really need to do it or not. Why should we do that? Do we not remember the lessons of Terry Pierce when we gambled a year in advance that we would not be able to resign Al and when we did, the kid had nowhere to go and a second rounder had been unnecessarily burned when we could have simply waited another year and had we still been apart on terms, we could have drafted an ILB (in addition to the OLB that we drafted..after all we had 4 first day picks that year, we could have certainly used two on LBs) at that time, franchising Al for a single year so as to get the pick up to speed. But no, we made the decision a year before we had to and it turned out to be totally unnecessary and a totally rash judgement. If Shanny/Greek turn out to be right on Marshall and we panic and sign Johnson when we don't know for sure what will happen, the effects will be ruinous when trying to sign all our other guys, especially Marshall. If Shanny/Greek turn out to be wrong, all that will be sacrificed (potentially) if we do not trade for Johnson (or otherwise address the position, which I think we should, say in the 3rd round if we can trade down and get a pick there) is simply one year, that's it(that is, after this season, we would then have a summer to address the problem more substantially if we gamble that Marshall is going to be ok and we're wrong)......a year I suspect that was not going to be a good one, anyway. I would submit to you that if we look at it from this perspective, the logical choice is therefore staying away from Johnson. The comparative risk/reward ratio in these two situations dictate it, IMO.

There is yet another concern with Chad Johnson, even assuming all the other possible issues work themselves out (highly unlikely). He's already 30 years old. Is it wise to make a significant investment in a WR that is already 30? How long can Denver reasonably expect him to be a top flight WR? 2 years? Maybe 3 maximum? That looks alot more like a short term shot in the arm than anything else. That type of thing is supposedly what we are trying to get away from....the short term fixes that have ruinous effects on us cap wise when they don't work out. We're supposed to be switching to a more long term strategy and this would not jive with that, even if all of the other objections are somehow satisfied, which I don't think they will be.


Damn, man. I'm buzzed. How am I supposed to read all of this? :) :griese:

[Killericon]

Were they the sole reasons? No. But did they help their teams by creating distractions off the field? No.

Moss did no such thing.

[eddie mac]

I dont understand this "We cant afford Chad Johnson" in terms of cap/future contract.

Javon Walker would've been on the books for $7m plus for the next 4 years and then some if he hadn't have gotten injured early in 07 and then become a little bitch about playing-time.

Shanahan wouldn't have looked near his contract if Javon had put up similar numbers to 06 and behaved himself.

Dont be reading too much into the lack of spending and the budget cutting by the Broncos this offseason. It certainly isn't because they dont have the money it's because Bowlen's sick of chucking it away on underperforming idiots who cant shut their mouths or control themselves off the field, but more importantly give us **** all on the field.

Any of the top FA's who could've helped this franchise and may have been value for money where taken off the market before FA even started, i.e Gross, Andrews, Locklear, Adams, Haynesworth, C Williams. The little that was left in the way of talent were given ludicrous contracts and personally I'm glad we went nowhere near them, i.e Berrian, Stallworth, Porter, Turner, Faneca, Bell, Kelly, M Williams and Wilson.

You only have to look at the Jason Elam case. Broncos never lowballed Jase at all. Elam indicated that he was only prepared to play one more season and wanted decent guaranteed money up front. Broncos made the decision not to match that Falcon offer cos we'd be looking at more dead money and replacing him again next year.

My point is whether or not the Broncos want Chad Johnson they could afford him in a heartbeat if they wanted to and if they felt his on-field performance and the compensation to Cincinatti was worth it.

[dsmoot]

Personally no. Johnson is a head case and for Johnson fans who think just because he isnt hanging out in bars that he is a good teamate is ridiculous. His constant appetite for the cameras is a major distraction and now he is whining about not winning. If he came to Denver and we didnt make the playoffs next year he would still continue to complain and cry. It just isnt worth it in the long run. And with Brandon being a question mark as far as attitude there is just too many ego's there. There are more receivers than Johnson both in FA and in the draft.

Remember Shannon. Some of the things he used to say would shock me. However, he knew when to shut up or listened to those who told him to cool it. He was certainly entertaining.

It seems today there are too many ME players. I would love to have CJ's talent on the team but it certainly wouldn't be a positive situation for Brandon. I am fearful of what BM might become after another good season.

[Northman]

I dont understand this "We cant afford Chad Johnson" in terms of cap/future contract.

Javon Walker would've been on the books for $7m plus for the next 4 years and then some if he hadn't have gotten injured early in 07 and then become a little b**** about playing-time.

Shanahan wouldn't have looked near his contract if Javon had put up similar numbers to 06 and behaved himself.

Dont be reading too much into the lack of spending and the budget cutting by the Broncos this offseason. It certainly isn't because they dont have the money it's because Bowlen's sick of chucking it away on underperforming idiots who cant shut their mouths or control themselves off the field, but more importantly give us **** all on the field.

Any of the top FA's who could've helped this franchise and may have been value for money where taken off the market before FA even started, i.e Gross, Andrews, Locklear, Adams, Haynesworth, C Williams. The little that was left in the way of talent were given ludicrous contracts and personally I'm glad we went nowhere near them, i.e Berrian, Stallworth, Porter, Turner, Faneca, Bell, Kelly, M Williams and Wilson.

You only have to look at the Jason Elam case. Broncos never lowballed Jase at all. Elam indicated that he was only prepared to play one more season and wanted decent guaranteed money up front. Broncos made the decision not to match that Falcon offer cos we'd be looking at more dead money and replacing him again next year.

My point is whether or not the Broncos want Chad Johnson they could afford him in a heartbeat if they wanted to and if they felt his on-field performance and the compensation to Cincinatti was worth it.

Thats what i mean when we dont have the money. But we have a lot a needs on this team and they (Broncos organization) need to make smarter moves. And to sign a malcontent like Johnson would be a mistake at this point.

[Northman]

Moss did no such thing.

Are you kidding me? He most certainly did in Minnesota and Oakland. Then he had some crap come up right before the Super Bowl with the Patriots.

[Northman]

Remember Shannon. Some of the things he used to say would shock me. However, he knew when to shut up or listened to those who told him to cool it. He was certainly entertaining.

It seems today there are too many ME players. I would love to have CJ's talent on the team but it certainly wouldn't be a positive situation for Brandon. I am fearful of what BM might become after another good season.


And thats the difference. The antics from Shannon is night and day from Chad. The comparison's people try to make between the two is laughable and totally ridiculous. They arent even close.

[Play2win]

Sharpe was a TEAM player, Chad is a ME player. End of story.