Bowlen: Players getting too big a slice of the pie

[montrose]

Bowlen: Players getting too big a slice of the pie
By Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News

PALM BEACH, Fla. — Only moments after announcing the approval of Wayne Huizenga’s sale of half his stake in the Miami Dolphins for a reported $550 million, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell stood at the same podium Monday and said the league’s franchise owners are currently operating under “extremely thin margins.”

And he offered up the Broncos as an example.

The Broncos, who have not added staff to replace two departed assistant head coaches or a fired general manager, also have let eight front-office employees go in what Broncos chief operating officer Joe Ellis has called a “required” move in the team’s current economy.

“I think that’s exactly the point I was trying to make earlier,” Goodell said. “When you have rising costs, the economics of owning and operating a team are extremely thin margins, extremely thin margins, and when you have an environment like we have right now with the economy and costs rise in certain areas, it has an impact.”

Layoffs and downsizing, while usually not equal to what one free-agent signee might earn in a season, are uncommon in the NFL. And when the Broncos, with decades of sellouts in their team history, cut staff even by eight people — the reductions included Paul Kirk, media relations director, and Andrew Mason, managing editor of DenverBroncos.com — it draws the attention of other franchises.

NFL Films, which has long chronicled every game for the league, also laid off 21 people last month. Some in the league expect other franchises to take similar measures in the coming months.

Goodell and Broncos owner Pat Bowlen have explained away such downsizing, in part, because of a sagging economy on all fronts and the league’s current labor deal, signed two years ago, which gives players about 60 percent of NFL revenues, an all-time high.

Owners will have a chance to opt out of the current agreement in November, which would make 2010 the final year of the deal.

“The problem really is the players are getting too big a slice of the pie, so we’re having to cut back in some other areas,” Bowlen said. “ . . . But the decisions that were made with the staff were made for varying reasons, not all necessarily just economic.”

NFL Players Association executive director Gene Upshaw answered with his own strong words earlier this year, saying:

“I just don’t want the owners to believe that somehow there is a Santa Claus. We’re getting 60 percent of the revenues when it’s all said and done, and we’re not giving any of it back . . . I think they have to learn to survive on their 40 percent.”

Upshaw has consistently maintained the owners could alleviate some of their own difficulties by sharing more revenues between the big-revenue teams and the small-market franchises.

“They don’t like paying (the players),” Upshaw said, “but they really hate paying each other.”

Said Goodell: “I think we knew the economics would change significantly in this deal, that the pendulum would swing very much in favor of the players. I don’t think anyone would say that they knew it would swing as significantly as it has. I’m also not sure anyone could have anticipated the current environment that we have right now with the economy.”

The Broncos cited rising costs earlier this year when they raised ticket prices 3-10 percent, the seventh time the team had raised prices on at least some of their tickets since winning the Super Bowl to close out the 1998 season.

“Certainly none of us are as healthy as we want to be because player costs are so high,” Bowlen said. “Ask any owner right now and they would give you the same answer. The salary cap, the amount of money going to the players in the current system is significantly higher than it was.”

The league’s salary cap was $85.5 million per team in 2005 compared to $116 million for the upcoming season. In the first year of the salary cap, in 1994, it was a just under $35 million per team.

Goodell also has been pushing for teams to eliminate some of their debt in the coming years.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/mar/31/bowlen-players-getting-too-big-slice-pie/

[peacepipe]

Someone needs to tell Bowlen in the great words of Richard Pryor to "have a coke,smile & STFU"

[Northman]

NFL Films, which has long chronicled every game for the league, also laid off 21 people last month. Some in the league expect other franchises to take similar measures in the coming months.

Goodell and Broncos owner Pat Bowlen have explained away such downsizing, in part, because of a sagging economy on all fronts and the league’s current labor deal, signed two years ago, which gives players about 60 percent of NFL revenues, an all-time high.

Owners will have a chance to opt out of the current agreement in November, which would make 2010 the final year of the deal.

“The problem really is the players are getting too big a slice of the pie, so we’re having to cut back in some other areas,” Bowlen said. “ . . . But the decisions that were made with the staff were made for varying reasons, not all necessarily just economic.”

OMG! The nerve of those penny pinching a-holes! lmao

[SoCalBronco]

The current CBA will be toast in November.

[That One Guy]

85 mil to 116 mil in 3 years is freakin' huge.

That being said, maybe they need to stop making expansion teams if the teams can't be supported. Is it any suprise that Jax was on the verge of being bankrupt when they're the 3rd team in the state of Florida? But, by someone's magical thinking, they were an expansion just 10 years or so ago. It was dumb then and now they're paying for it, all because these damn people want to keep creating teams.

They want to keep trying to squeeze out money so I could give a damn if half of em go bankrupt. I love football but hate the NFL and how $$$ is priority #1-5 on their priority list these days.

[CHANGSTER]

Upshaw is a real ass-hat. Most unlikable person in the football world.

35 mil in 94 to 118 mil today. Thats a hell of a lota inflation.

[Bronx33]

Upshaw is a real ass-hat. Most unlikable person in the football world.

35 mil in 94 to 118 mil today. Thats a hell of a lota inflation.

And all the old timers are still sitting out in the rain.

[Northman]

85 mil to 116 mil in 3 years is freakin' huge.

That being said, maybe they need to stop making expansion teams if the teams can't be supported. Is it any suprise that Jax was on the verge of being bankrupt when they're the 3rd team in the state of Florida? But, by someone's magical thinking, they were an expansion just 10 years or so ago. It was dumb then and now they're paying for it, all because these damn people want to keep creating teams.

They want to keep trying to squeeze out money so I could give a damn if half of em go bankrupt. I love football but hate the NFL and how $$$ is priority #1-5 on their priority list these days.


Whats worse is the Jaguars are a successful just like the Marlins yet they cant sell out their stadiums.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

The current CBA will be toast in November.

With a strike/lockout to follow. Get ready for a season without legit NFL football folk.

[orinjkrush]

if it's too hard for him, Bowlen needs to do a Huizenga. or alternatively, he can ask for a new stadium, new parking, new concessions, a better mink stole or sunglasses from this century. life's tough.

[Broncojef]

I still can't believe with all the revenue and hype around football people are still talking debt situations. For christ sake if you can't make it as the leading sport in the US just quit now. Bowlen has always been a good owner and a guy like ourselves that just wants to win. I don't begrudge him anything, but Upshaw needs to be driven from the game...we all know whats coming, he's gonna fully ruin the game we love.

[Bronco Jamus]

Sometimes revolution is a good thing.

[KipCorrington25]

Unfortunatly Bowlen is an owner that needs the team to make him money unlike others where it's just an expensive toy. The game now may be too rich for his blood.

[peacepipe]

Upshaw is a real ass-hat. Most unlikable person in the football world.

35 mil in 94 to 118 mil today. Thats a hell of a lota inflation.Have you noticed the BILLIONS the NFL is getting in TV & other licenseing contracts, that's not including stadium revenue.The inflation is completely justified.

[rovolution]

Sometimes rovolution is a good thing.

What do you mean sometimes?

[montrose]

Unfortunatly Bowlen is an owner that needs the team to make him money unlike others where it's just an expensive toy. The game now may be too rich for his blood.

I agree, had this talk with a friend a few days ago. The Broncos could use a guy with pocketbooks like Kroenke. He lets the Nugz and Avs spend wild, because he can afford it.

[~Crash~]

Bowlen just wants bang for buck... he want's players that want to play that want to show they are all that before he pays them I Don't blame him .

[CBF1]

Have you noticed the BILLIONS the NFL is getting in TV & other licenseing contracts, that's not including stadium revenue.The inflation is completely justified.

This coming from a guy working the counter at McDonalds.

32 teams x 118 million in salary cap= 3,776,000,000.00 dollars okay there is the TV money gone. Now add paying all the coaching staffs, trainers, team doctors, support staff, accountants, media relations office help and so on down the line. Now lets not forget health care for all of said employees, travel expenses including charter flights, hotel, buses and food.


Now lets not forget the bonus money, advertising and such and there is no longer all the money that a genius like you thinks there is floating around in the owners pockets. Did I mention the amount of taxes Bowlen and his corporation pays every single year ???

Get a grip son, players making over 1/2 the income (60%) while taking ZERO financial risk is freekin crazy. The owners need to take back control of the game or it will go to hell in a hand basket pretty quick.

If there was no NFL.... where would any of these ass clown players make 10% of what they do now?

I agree with SoCal, the CBA will be gone as soon as they can opt out.

[yerner]

Real tough life for the ****ing guys.

[mhgaffney]

Why am I not buying the front office line that "times are tough?"

From what I heard the NFL TV contract alone pays all of the players' salaries.

If Bowlen can't survive on the gate receipts (what is it now -- at least $40 a ticket) from always packed Mile High Stadium -- then he needs a new accountant.

Or maybe a hit across the chops.

(poor guy.)

[DomCasual]

Pat Bowlen has been one of the two or three best owners in the NFL for 25 years. There have been changes in the Denver Broncos over that time - a few coaches, two stadiums, a new team headquarters, and about a thousand players. The one constant has been Pat Bowlen. Oh, and a lot of winning. That's been pretty consistent, too.

Those of you bashing him have no credibility when it comes to this issue. Period. Pat Bowlen isn't Mike Brown. If he says there is a problem, I tend to believe him - because the guy has done nothing but earn my respect. For twenty-five years.

Seriously, a few people on this board should become fans of another team.

[Hogan11]

Pat Bowlen has been one of the two or three best owners in the NFL for 25 years. There have been changes in the Denver Broncos over that time - a few coaches, two stadiums, a new team headquarters, and about a thousand players. The one constant has been Pat Bowlen. Oh, and a lot of winning. That's been pretty consistent, too.

Those of you bashing him have no credibility when it comes to this issue. Period. Pat Bowlen isn't Mike Brown. If he says there is a problem, I tend to believe him - because the guy has done nothing but earn my respect. For twenty-five years.

Seriously, a few people on this board should become fans of another team.

:thumbs: Testify!

[CBF1]

Why am I not buying the front office line that "times are tough?"
From what I heard the NFL TV contract alone pays all of the players' salaries.

If Bowlen can't survive on the gate receipts (what is it now -- at least $40 a ticket) from always packed Mile High Stadium -- then he needs a new accountant.
Or maybe a hit across the chops.(poor guy.)

I guess the federal and state governments are giving Mr Bowlen a free pass. The money from the TV contract is considered INCOME and at that rate let me tell you it is 50% off the top to pay for this fine country and the state of colorado...and ofcourse Denver gets its fare share.


I guess Dove Valley, the training facilities, practice fields, trainer, coaches, property taxes, office support, electricity, water, living expenses, day to day operating expenses and so on are given to Pat by the state. You can tell who has never owned a business in their life by some of these uninformed comments.

Vanna, buy some of these posters a clue please. :thumbs:

[Man-Goblin]

I agree, had this talk with a friend a few days ago. The Broncos could use a guy with pocketbooks like Kroenke. He lets the Nugz and Avs spend wild, because he can afford it.

Kroenke is freaking loaded, but I don't even think he would have the necessary $750-850 million that it would take to buy the Broncos and all of their assets.

Nor do I think Bowlen would want to sell, nor do I think he needs to sell.

I think a more likely scenario would be Kroenke selling off the Avalanche, Nuggets and Pepsi Center and buying the Rams. But since his one true love is basketball, I don't see that happening, either.

[TallyBronco]

Probability that the Bowlen-bashers here have any knowledge of the financial costs of running an NFL team? Close to zero. Probability that their spite has something to do with thwarted life satisfaction? Much higher.

[CBF1]

Probability that the Bowlen-bashers here have any knowledge of the financial costs of running an NFL team? Close to zero. Probability that their spite has something to do with thwarted life satisfaction? Much higher.

Quoted for truth :thumbs:

[Taco John]

Thar be mischief afoot!

[CBF1]

What the hell is up with that sig??? Should be put on the survivor thread

Brokeback Dortoh ROFL!

[BroncoBuff]

Thar be mischief afoot!

Hahahahahah!!!


I get it! TJ added his sig to all of ours ... Brokeback Hotrod ... sorry TJ I thought it was just a glitch and removed it from mine (you can put it back) :~ohyah!:

[snowspot66]

We have average players getting record contracts. If players can't deal with not having more than their 50 million for an average performance then they can shove it up their ass.

[HEAV]

Seems like the owners are drawing the line in the sand.

Lockout in 2011... 3 years folks... 3 years to enjoy the game.

[Atwater His Ass]

Pat Bowlen has been one of the two or three best owners in the NFL for 25 years. There have been changes in the Denver Broncos over that time - a few coaches, two stadiums, a new team headquarters, and about a thousand players. The one constant has been Pat Bowlen. Oh, and a lot of winning. That's been pretty consistent, too.

Those of you bashing him have no credibility when it comes to this issue. Period. Pat Bowlen isn't Mike Brown. If he says there is a problem, I tend to believe him - because the guy has done nothing but earn my respect. For twenty-five years.

Seriously, a few people on this board should become fans of another team.

This is the correct answer.

[Drek]

Seems like the owners are drawing the line in the sand.

Lockout in 2011... 3 years folks... 3 years to enjoy the game.

You don't think they'll roll out replacement players?

Arena football, the CFL, Mark Cuban's new football startup, and dozens of semi-pro leagues around the world have ownership sitting in the catbird's seat should they decide to have a lockout and play scabs. They'd be drawing from a pretty sizable pool of talent and I'd be willing to bet that a lot of younger NFL players who haven't hit the big contracts yet would tear up their union cards and cross the picket lines if it meant keeping a six figure salary versus bagging bread at Wal-Mart.

The deal will get voided, there will be a lockout season, and Gene Upshaw will go down as one of the worst people to be involved with the NFL.

[peacepipe]

This coming from a guy working the counter at McDonalds.

32 teams x 118 million in salary cap= 3,776,000,000.00 dollars okay there is the TV money gone. Now add paying all the coaching staffs, trainers, team doctors, support staff, accountants, media relations office help and so on down the line. Now lets not forget health care for all of said employees, travel expenses including charter flights, hotel, buses and food.


Now lets not forget the bonus money, advertising and such and there is no longer all the money that a genius like you thinks there is floating around in the owners pockets. Did I mention the amount of taxes Bowlen and his corporation pays every single year ???

Get a grip son, players making over 1/2 the income (60%) while taking ZERO financial risk is freekin crazy. The owners need to take back control of the game or it will go to hell in a hand basket pretty quick.

If there was no NFL.... where would any of these ass clown players make 10% of what they do now?

I agree with SoCal, the CBA will be gone as soon as they can opt out. Oh please, the woe is me defense ain't gonna fly with me. The NFL is making plenty money. The owners are not stupid,they knew from the get go what they signed & agreed to when they signed the CBA. Do you think they were smart enough to get rich & buy a football team,but too stupid to negotiate a CBA?

If there aren't the players,the NFL becomes the XFL. Noone cares for half-*ssed 2nd rate football. Do you remember the XFL?

Just a reminder, Owners don't honor most contracts anyway. Remember in the NFL contracts aren't garaunteed.

BTW, I'm a UNION ironworker so I am alittle biased.

[peacepipe]

You don't think they'll roll out replacement players?

Arena football, the CFL, Mark Cuban's new football startup, and dozens of semi-pro leagues around the world have ownership sitting in the catbird's seat should they decide to have a lockout and play scabs. They'd be drawing from a pretty sizable pool of talent and I'd be willing to bet that a lot of younger NFL players who haven't hit the big contracts yet would tear up their union cards and cross the picket lines if it meant keeping a six figure salary versus bagging bread at Wal-Mart.
The deal will get voided, there will be a lockout season, and Gene Upshaw will go down as one of the worst people to be involved with the NFL. don't hold your breath on that one.

[dbfan21]

Whats worse is the Jaguars are a successful just like the Marlins yet they cant sell out their stadiums.

The problem with sports in Florida is that each person/family has a certain amount of "sports dollars" allotted in their budget. And there are too many teams to pick from.

NFL: Bucs, Phins and Jags
NBA: Magic, Heat
MLB: Marlins and Rays
NHL: Panthers, Lightning (2 hockey teams for crying out loud!)

And on top of it all, there is a ton of college athletics. Anyone in Florida would agree that college football is king in this state. Florida, Florida State, Miami, UCF, South Florida are all big/up-and-coming programs and there are a few others that are picking up momentum.

Add that to the fact we are surrounded by water on three sides and have endless water-related and outdoor activities, it makes it tough to spread the wealth around.

[Cito Pelon]

The current CBA will be toast in November.

Hopefully an agreement can be reached before the uncapped year comes up in 2010.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80772c56&template=with-video&confirm=true

Thomas George adds a little bit more info with this article.

The way I see it is both the players and the owners have valid arguments. I figure they better sit down right now and start hashing this out with some new ideas, and both better be prepared to give a little, probably the players have to give a little more. Say a rookie cap. 60% of gross is quite a concession by the owners, damn big concession really to keep the League going a couple years ago. If I remember right the new CBA was signed pretty close to the deadline.

There's plenty of money to go around, an obscene amount of money, but both sides of this are greedy bastards that mightily resent in many cases the amount the other side is getting and thinks they're entitled to it more.

Both sides can kiss my ass if they can't come to an agreement that prevents that uncapped year popping up in 2010. But that's a long time away. Just because the owners opt out of the current CBA on November 8 doesn't mean there won't be another agreement before the 2010 camp starts.

[Bladerunner]

If this economy continues to slow or recede and the credit crisis continues, there will be ramifications. The players live in a fiscal fantasy world where the only risk item they have to concern themselves with is injury insurance. If things get bad and Upshaw won't budge, the owners will lock the players out...and the players will lose, just like in the NHL. Once the owners stand to lose less by not playing than by playing, it's over.

[Cito Pelon]

Well, the owners did it:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_9327805

Owners fed up with pie share
Bowlen part of group's unanimous vote to opt out of a labor deal quick to make rookies rich.
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 05/21/2008 08:56:30 AM MDT


A threatening NFL lockout is just three years away and already, progress.

When Broncos owner Pat Bowlen and 31 of his NFL colleagues voted Tuesday to unanimously opt out of the current collective bargaining agreement following the 2010 season, complaints were cited.

Among them, the owners called "irrational" their economic system that pays exorbitant contracts to rookies, particularly those drafted among the top five to 10 picks.

"I'm with them on that," said Broncos safety John Lynch, who is entering his 16th season. "I'd like to come up with an NBA system where you put a cap on the rookies. I can see the owners' problem there. You look at JaMarcus Russell. He may turn out to be an awesome quarterback, but you're investing $60 million right off the bat. It's reached the point where everyone who picks in the top five wants to get the heck out of there. I would like to see that pool of money redistributed."

At least one issue shouldn't get much squabble. Of more serious concern to the owners, however, is the 59 percent slice the players get from the league's revenue pie.

The league cited the players were paid $4.5 billion this year alone. And while simple math deduces the league's total revenues exceeded $7.5 billion, the owners say the escalating costs of doing business means there's not enough coming back to them.

The owners are also irked at CBA language that has prevented them from recouping bonuses in cases where they feel players breached their contract — as the Broncos claimed when Ashley Lelie held out in 2006 and Atlanta argued when Michael Vick was sentenced to prison last year.

"The owners were emphatic in their position that the deal wasn't working for them," said Broncos executive Joe Ellis, who attended the owners meetings in Atlanta.

If the players don't make satisfactory compromises, the owners could institute a lockout for the 2011 season.

"I think our fans need to understand there are three more seasons left to be played before anything close to that can happen," Ellis said.

"We can't let that happen," said Broncos cornerback Domonique Foxworth, a member of the players union's executive committee. "It would be foolish by the league and the players. We're not going to strike. It's about whether they push us out. It's not about us walking out."
_________________________________________________

They didn't waste any time. This should be an interesting story how they work this out. Rookie cap or no new labor deal, I'm thinking.

[Kaylore]

I side with the owners on the every issue pretty much. They should create a rookie salary pool, they should give back .75 percent and they should amend the contract issues in regards to players deciding they don't want to play. There is a recent trend of receivers holding out until they are traded to their favorite team and it needs to be stopped.

[Meck77]

"The owners were emphatic in their position that the deal wasn't working for them," said Broncos executive Joe Ellis, who attended the owners meetings in Atlanta. .

Hmm I wonder how many fans across the country are willing to plunk down $100+ per ticket this season with gas approaching 4 bucks a gallon.

Maybe some of this redistribution they are talking about will filter back to us. Yeah right.

[Northman]

Hmm I wonder how many fans across the country are willing to plunk down $100+ per ticket this season with gas approaching 4 bucks a gallon.

Maybe some of this redistribution they are talking about will filter back to us.


No doubt.

[BroncoBuff]

Upshaw is a real ass-hat. Most unlikable person in the football world.
That's what I used to think ... and I laughed m/a/o when Bryant Gumbel said that on his way out the door, Paul Tagliabue should show Goodell where he keeps his leash for Upshaw. It's especially bad when I see that low-life Raider preening around NYC in that $3,000 cashmere overcoat, acting like he actually earns his $3 million salary.

But lately things have changed. The owners opting out of this deal is no joke ... there's very little upside for them. Sure, they're probably over-dramatizing their financial straits, but I've heard baseball union bigwig Tom Glavine talk about what a great deal the NFL players got last year. So I think maybe Upshaw (or more accurately those around him) have done a pretty good job - maybe too good a job.

[ward63]

The thing with all this, is that I agree with Kevin Mawae when he said that rookies shouldn't be getting paid thier REDICULOUS contracts in ther first few years! Those should be given to the veterans that have proved themselves, rather than giving TONS of money to players that don't pan out. I know rookies would be upset but I believe that will create more competition due to the fact that the rookies will have to work hard in order to get paid! It would keep teams from wasting a ton of money on players that don't workout.

[tsiguy96]

The thing with all this, is that I agree with Kevin Mawae when he said that rookies shouldn't be getting paid thier REDICULOUS contracts in ther first few years! Those should be given to the veterans that have proved themselves, rather than giving TONS of money to players that don't pan out. I know rookies would be upset but I believe that will create more competition due to the fact that the rookies will have to work hard in order to get paid! It would keep teams from wasting a ton of money on players that don't workout.

a rookie cap would fix everything. more money for the players who have earned it, hte owners wouldnt have to pay such a high % etc...

[FireFly]

There is a recent trend of receivers holding out until they are traded to their favorite team and it needs to be stopped.

I don't know how they could possibly do this; and I'm sure they won't. But fixing this would be GOOD for football.

[TheChamp24]

I completely agree that there needs to be a rookie cap. Freakin ridiculous.

[Hash Mark]

Probably the one issue that is for sure to have both Owners & Players agree to re-vamp, is the way first rounders are paid.

The economic issues are sometimes weird in the NFL. The New Orleans franchise had to stay put in New Orleans post Katrina, to make a statement. But, now it's OK for Ralph Wilson to take his Bills on the road for home games, with some being scheduled in friggin Canada (Toronto).

[TallyBronco]

Forget the rookie cap, forget all these rule-based solutions, they don't work. They saddle the NFL with a one-size-fits-all mentality.

Allow total free agency, including rookies, and players will start being paid based on their actual value to a team in the upcoming season. It's hard to predict what sort of patterns would emerge in this type of system, but I think you'd see different strategies between teams depending on their payrolls. Some teams might offer lower base pay contracts with higher incentives while others might guarantee lower employment but at a lower salary.

[Hash Mark]

Free enterprise. Sounds appealing. Except, I hate the Yankees and would hate to see a team in New York or Washington dominate year in year out.

[peacepipe]

Probability that the Bowlen-bashers here have any knowledge of the financial costs of running an NFL team? Close to zero. Probability that their spite has something to do with thwarted life satisfaction? Much higher.The nfl as a whole raked in over 7 billion dollars in 2007. Split it between 32 teams & each team gets 218 million each.
Take out of that the 116 mil on salary cap(assuming each team spends the full amt on player contracts) that leaves 102 million. Take out coaches/personnel salaries,insurance/benefits,travel costs bowlen is probably left with 50+ million on the hip. As a matter of fairness I'll say 40 million just in case i missed something. That's a damn good chunk of profit to make in one year. Pat bowlen has probably made over a billion dollars during his tenure as a owner in the NFL.the players have earned a bigger piece of the pie.
The bottom line is: It's the cost of doing business in the NFL.

[Drek]

The nfl as a whole raked in over 7 billion dollars in 2007. Split it between 32 teams & each team gets 218 million each.
Take out of that the 116 mil on salary cap(assuming each team spends the full amt on player contracts) that leaves 102 million. Take out coaches/personnel salaries,insurance/benefits,travel costs bowlen is probably left with 50+ million on the hip. As a matter of fairness I'll say 40 million just in case i missed something. That's a damn good chunk of profit to make in one year. Pat bowlen has probably made over a billion dollars during his tenure as a owner in the NFL.the players have earned a bigger piece of the pie.
The bottom line is: It's the cost of doing business in the NFL.

1. Even if it is as high as $40M, which I strongly doubt (you forgot all the support staff, the benefits for everyone tied to the organization, and the significant amount of taxes that they're required to pay on all of that) you're still talking about an owner needing to have a franchise for 20 years to get a return on investment when buying a team. Someone like Bowlen who already owns the team isn't as severely effected by it, but it scares off new owners, or makes them bad owners who go cheap on players and run up ticket prices, and regardless of an owner's tenure it significantly hurts the borrowing power all of them have, when lending institutions see that the profit margins on such a large investment is so slim.

Wonder why Jacksonville is struggling?

The players risk their bodies, the owners risk fortunes and are the ones who have to run everything. Management gets paid more in all other industries, why should it be so dramatically different in professional sports, where these players don't have an alternative to make even 1/10th of what they do in the NFL?

And I deal with union workers every day. I highly doubt a new union guy still going through his apprenticeship would put union and before food on the table. If you really believe that you're hitting the pipe too often. Long standing union members? Sure, but not the young guys.

I side with the owners on the every issue pretty much. They should create a rookie salary pool, they should give back .75 percent and they should amend the contract issues in regards to players deciding they don't want to play. There is a recent trend of receivers holding out until they are traded to their favorite team and it needs to be stopped.
They have a rookie salary pool, what they need to do is institute a slotting system a la the NBA. You drafted first? You get a small percentage bump over 1st last year. Drafted 200th? Same thing. You get drafted you get a set in stone deal that runs a set in stone amount of time depending on where you were picked. Holding out would disappear and the number of agents trying to prey on collegiate football players would decline because that agency fee would no longer be in the millions.

The thing with all this, is that I agree with Kevin Mawae when he said that rookies shouldn't be getting paid thier REDICULOUS contracts in ther first few years!

Mawae is a moron. He's only got himself to blame for the situation, he's Upshaw's #1 ass kisser amongst the player reps and the fact that he's their president is enabling Upshaw to stick around. Its Upshaw's fault the rookies get paid like they do, his entire representation of players has been based around inflating the highest contracts and forcing up cap numbers. He's done nothing for the bottom 75% of players in this league.

What should happen:
Owners and the PA (minus Upshaw) put in a rookie salary slotting system, every rookie gets paid on the spot he was selected at, nothing else. Their contracts are 100% guaranteed for the first three seasons, but #1's deal is only about $2M a year and they go down from there. This way all the rookies will get their chance to develop and become something without fear of injury or being cut, but in order to really get paid they need to perform.

This money taken out of the huge rookie deals would probably make about 5% of the total revenue, is enough to make everyone happy. The owners get a 2.5% cut in revenue going to the players, thats a couple million extra in their pockets a season, and the players get to see that extra couple million put back into the league by increasing the salaries of veterans.

To that end, low to mid-level veterans, guys with 5+ years of service but who make less than say, 60% of the franchise tag for their positions, get an additional 100K of uncapped money per season. It might not seem like a lot, probably won't to owners or high end of the pay scale players, but for those guys who mostly make in the 1-2M range thats a 5-10% raise just for being a vested player.

Also give a little back to owners in that regard, non-franchise level veterans (guys who's contracts aren't incorporated into that top 10%) with 5+ years continuous service reward owners by seeing 5% of their base salaries ignored in regards to the salary cap.

Final step, players give up about 2% of the rest of their pie to three different funds. 1. a veterans fund that goes the retirees with more than 10 years out of the league (level of fund eligibility depends on years of service) 2. a current player protection fund that goes to players who are injured in such a way as to be unable to continue their careers and 3. a league wide financial guidance/assistance program to prepare players financially for their time after the NFL. Probably a 1.25%/.5%/.25% point split. This does something to remedy the burden on the older veterans, puts in place medical and financial assistance for players who get hurt now and in the future, and begins building a league of financially sound players who won't rely on the player's association when their careers end.

[peacepipe]

1. Even if it is as high as $40M, which I strongly doubt (you forgot all the support staff, the benefits for everyone tied to the organization, and the significant amount of taxes that they're required to pay on all of that) you're still talking about an owner needing to have a franchise for 20 years to get a return on investment when buying a team. Someone like Bowlen who already owns the team isn't as severely effected by it, but it scares off new owners, or makes them bad owners who go cheap on players and run up ticket prices, and regardless of an owner's tenure it significantly hurts the borrowing power all of them have, when lending institutions see that the profit margins on such a large investment is so slim.

Wonder why Jacksonville is struggling?

The players risk their bodies, the owners risk fortunes and are the ones who have to run everything. Management gets paid more in all other industries, why should it be so dramatically different in professional sports, where these players don't have an alternative to make even 1/10th of what they do in the NFL?

And I deal with union workers every day. I highly doubt a new union guy still going through his apprenticeship would put union and before food on the table. If you really believe that you're hitting the pipe too often. Long standing union members? Sure, but not the young guys.
I did include benefits & support staff. what the employer pays, in regards to pension benefits, is non-taxable

[peacepipe]

The players risk their bodies, the owners risk fortunes and are the ones who have to run everything. Management gets paid more in all other industries, why should it be so dramatically different in professional sports, where these players don't have an alternative to make even 1/10th of what they do in the NFL?

the differance is in any other industry anybody can be taught to do the job. Not everyone be a QB,RB or a CB. Does the XFL ring any bells.

[Cito Pelon]

I don't understand how the players are "guaranteed" 59% of gross, but ownership doesn't actually have to pay all that out. Can anybody explain that to me?

[Drek]

the differance is in any other industry anybody can be taught to do the job. Not everyone be a QB,RB or a CB. Does the XFL ring any bells.

The XFL was a joke league brought to you by the same people who brought you WWE, Vince McMahon and company. There was no credibility and they handled it like a joke.

Arena football does ok for itself, the CFL does as well. Neither has the tradition of franchise loyalty that the NFL does.

The NFL owners have ran out replacement players before and were fairly successful in still selling tickets and getting games on TV. The Players Union tried to run all-star games with their guys on strike and it failed miserably.

Two times they've come to loggerheads on a deal, both times the owners won. Just because recently they fell asleep at the wheel and let the players union slide a bad CBA through doesn't mean they'll suddenly lose all the leverage they've had since the league first began. Just look at Dominique Foxworth's comment. He's the Broncos player rep and he flat out said they didn't see striking as an option. If the players won't strike they've got nothing, because the owners sure as hell will lock them out and bring in scabs. The talent pool has only gotten bigger since the last time they did it and a feel good Keanu Reeves movie has already even paved the path toward helping them sell tickets.

The NFL is built on franchise loyalty as opposed to the NBA which is built on superstar players, or baseball which more splits down the middle. Ever wonder why the NFL gets so uppity with players who take their helmets off on the field or make alterations to their uniform? Its all about making people only root for the laundry. It gives them control and the players union can't do anything about it.

[Cito Pelon]

The way I'm looking at it right now is there'a a bunch of BS coming from both sides, and the media really doesn't know what's going on.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-05-21-gene-upshaw_N.htm?csp=34

I don't know what's going on. I still can't figure out how the current CBA opted out of could 'guarantee' 60% of total NFL revenue to the players, yet the owners don't have to meet the salary cap at the same time.

[thumpc]

There is a minimum each team has to spend on salaries, approx 15 million less than the cap, in that range. The cap is set at 60% of gross revenues. Since most owners are innately obligated to spend all of their cap each year, that's the guarantee.
Whatever that minimum is, would be the true.... yeah, that is confusing.

[peacepipe]

The XFL was a joke league brought to you by the same people who brought you WWE, Vince McMahon and company. There was no credibility and they handled it like a joke.

Arena football does ok for itself, the CFL does as well. Neither has the tradition of franchise loyalty that the NFL does.

The NFL owners have ran out replacement players before and were fairly successful in still selling tickets and getting games on TV. The Players Union tried to run all-star games with their guys on strike and it failed miserably.

Two times they've come to loggerheads on a deal, both times the owners won. Just because recently they fell asleep at the wheel and let the players union slide a bad CBA through doesn't mean they'll suddenly lose all the leverage they've had since the league first began. Just look at Dominique Foxworth's comment. He's the Broncos player rep and he flat out said they didn't see striking as an option. If the players won't strike they've got nothing, because the owners sure as hell will lock them out and bring in scabs. The talent pool has only gotten bigger since the last time they did it and a feel good Keanu Reeves movie has already even paved the path toward helping them sell tickets.

The NFL is built on franchise loyalty as opposed to the NBA which is built on superstar players, or baseball which more splits down the middle. Ever wonder why the NFL gets so uppity with players who take their helmets off on the field or make alterations to their uniform? Its all about making people only root for the laundry. It gives them control and the players union can't do anything about it.The XFL was poor sloppy football,played by 2nd rate players. that's why noone watched.

[watermock]

With foreign money ready to pounce on Budweiser of all thing, (hell, you wouldn't believe the fire sale that's been going on...Banks being sold to EU and middle east countries ect.

People don't understand the mess Bush has gotten us into, and there isn't anyone out the like a Roosevelt.

The cash cow called the NFL is going to evenually have to go thru contraction ecomically, The handwriting is allready on the wall.

[TallyBronco]

With foreign money ready to pounce on Budweiser of all thing, (hell, you wouldn't believe the fire sale that's been going on...Banks being sold to EU and middle east countries ect.

People don't understand the mess Bush has gotten us into, and there isn't anyone out the like a Roosevelt.

The cash cow called the NFL is going to evenually have to go thru contraction ecomically, The handwriting is allready on the wall.

Ah, finally, someone works Bush into this mess. Anytime you don't have the cognitive capacity or background knowledge to approach an issue intelligently, you can always resort to blaming Bush.

You can sit around waiting for some politician to save you/us. Go ahead. I don't wear diapers anymore.

Roosevelt (FDR, presumably) didn't save the US economy and neither will the next one or the one after that, etc etc. The only thing I want to see from a politician is a two-step to the sidewalk while the rest of us get on with business.

[ol number 7]

Unfortunatly Bowlen is an owner that needs the team to make him money unlike others where it's just an expensive toy. The game now may be too rich for his blood.

Bowlen still has oil money flowing in. Owners don't have to spend to the cap so if you need to spend less you have an option. Just like we don;t have to blow our whole check, rack up the credit card then complain we can't save a dime now days. I spend what I can going to games and when it's gone I'm at home with Sunday Ticket. No problem here.

[Pat Bowlen]

Guys, I'm going to come clean in this thread.






I'm very, very rich. Deal with it.

[BroncoBuff]

Just because recently they fell asleep at the wheel and let the players union slide a bad CBA through doesn't mean they'll suddenly lose all the leverage they've had since the league first began.
As I recall, that owners meeting was in Denver, and Ralph Wilson was the only owner (other than omni-dissenter Al Davis), who tried to stop that bad CBA. The media was all over Wilson, "poor old Ralph," and "he's just a poor small-market guy," he's just "out of touch."

Turns out "poor old Ralph" was the smartest guy in the room :~ohyah!: