Why cant those left of center be honest on this one?

[Bob]

It is shocking to me that Dems make excuses for racism when one of their own has been exposed. Republicans do the same thing – when I guy like Larry Craig does something, they turn a blind eye, but get all freaked out over Governor Spitzer. You can still like a guy’s policies, but remain intellectually consistent. Below is an interesting article, that happens to have been written by an African American on the under-pinning’s of Obama’s church. Try to read with an open mind --

What is Black Liberation Theology?

Wright's Black Liberation Theology
By Anthony B. Bradley

What is Black liberation theology anyway? Barrack Obama's former pastor, Jeremiah Wright catapulted black liberation theology onto a national stage, when America discovered Trinity United Church of Christ. Understanding the background of the movement might give better clarity into Wright's recent vitriolic preaching. A clear definition of Black theology was first given formulation in 1969 by the National Committee of Black Church Men in the midst of the civil-rights movement:

"Black theology is a theology of black liberation. It seeks to plumb the black condition in the light of God's revelation in Jesus Christ, so that the black community can see that the gospel is commensurate with the achievements of black humanity. Black theology is a theology of 'blackness.' It is the affirmation of black humanity that emancipates black people from White racism, thus providing authentic freedom for both White and black people. It affirms the humanity of White people in that it says 'No' to the encroachment of White oppression."

In the 1960s, Black churches began to focus their attention beyond helping Blacks cope with national racial discrimination particularly in urban areas.

The notion of "Blackness" is not merely a reference to skin color, but rather is a symbol of oppression that can be applied to all persons of color who have a history of oppression (except Whites, of course). So in this sense, as Wright notes, "Jesus was a poor black man" because he lived in oppression at the hands of "rich White people." The overall emphasis of Black liberation theology is the Black struggle for liberation from various forms of "White racism" and oppression.

James Cone, the chief architect of black liberation theology in his book A Black Theology of Liberation (1970), develops Black theology as a system. In this new formulation, Christian theology is a theology of liberation--"a rational study of the being of God in the world in light of the existential situation of an oppressed community, relating the forces of liberation to the essence of the gospel, which is Jesus Christ," writes Cone. Black consciousness and the Black experience of oppression orient black liberation theology--i.e., one of victimization from White oppression.

One of the tasks of Black theology, says Cone, is to analyze the nature of the gospel of Jesus Christ in light of the experience of oppressed Blacks. For Cone, no theology is Christian theology unless it arises from oppressed communities and interprets Jesus' work as that of liberation. Christian theology is understood in terms of systemic and structural relationships between two main groups: victims (the oppressed) and victimizers (oppressors). In Cone's context, writing in the late 1960s and early 1970s, the great event of Christ's liberation was freeing African Americans from the centuries-old tyranny of White racism and White oppression.

American White theology, which Cone never clearly defines, is charged with having failed to help Blacks in the struggle for liberation. Black theology exists because "White religionists" failed to relate the gospel of Jesus to the pain of being Black in a White racist society.

For Black theologians White Americans do not have the ability to recognize the humanity in persons of color, Blacks need their own theology to affirm their identity in terms of a reality that is anti-Black--Blackness stands for all victims of White oppression. "White theology," when formed in isolation from the Black experience, becomes a theology of White oppressors, serving as divine sanction from criminal acts committed against Blacks. Cone argues that even those White theologians who try to connect theology to Black suffering rarely utter a word that is relevant to the Black experience in America. White theology is not Christian theology at all. There is but one guiding principle of Black theology: an unqualified commitment to the Black community as that community seeks to define its existence in the light of God's liberating work in the world.

As such, Black theology is a survival theology because it helps Blacks navigate White dominance in American culture. In Cone's view, Whites consider Blacks animals, outside of the realm of humanity, and attempted to destroy Black identity through racial assimilation and integration programs--as if Blacks have no legitimate existence apart from Whiteness. Black theology is the theological expression of a people deprived of social and political power. God is not the God of White religion but the God of Black existence. In Cone's understanding, truth is not objective but subjective--a personal experience of the Ultimate in the midst of degradation.

The echoes of Cone's theology bled through, the now infamous, anti-Hilary excerpt by Rev. Wright. Clinton is among the oppressing class ("rich White people") and is incapable of understanding oppression ("ain't never been called a n-gg-r") but Jesus knows what it was like because he was "a poor black man" oppressed by "rich White people." While black liberation theology is not main stream in most black churches, many pastors in Wright's generation are burdened by Cone's categories which laid the foundation for many to embrace Marxism and a distorted self-image of perpetual "victim" which we be explored in the next two columns.

Anthony B. Bradley is a research fellow at the Acton Institute, and assistant professor of theology at Covenant Theological Seminary in St. Louis. His PhD dissertation is titled, "Victimology in Black Liberation Theology."

[Rohirrim]

I find it hard to believe that an intelligent man like Barack Obama could sit still for that bs. That **** is right up their with L. Ron Hubbard.

[TexanBob]

I would disagree with your assertion that Republicans didn't care about the indescretions of Larry Craig. Many wanted him out and did their best to pressure him to leave but realized eventually he wasn't going to leave so they moved on. Besides, he is not running for reelection so he'll be gone as of January '09 anyway. Meanwhile, Mark Foley resigned immediately or there would have been major pressure from Republicans for him to resign.

Yes, you can probably cite Republicans who did not get pressure from the right to resign but, in general, they do a better job of policing their own than Democrats do.

[Rohirrim]

I would disagree with your assertion that Republicans didn't care about the indescretions of Larry Craig. Many wanted him out and did their best to pressure him to leave but realized eventually he wasn't going to leave so they moved on. Besides, he is not running for reelection so he'll be gone as of January '09 anyway. Meanwhile, Mark Foley resigned immediately or there would have been major pressure from Republicans for him to resign.

Yes, you can probably cite Republicans who did not get pressure from the right to resign but, in general, they do a better job of policing their own than Democrats do.

That's because those on the Left tend not to see sexual acts between consenting adults as a crime.

[Bladerunner]

I'm left of center and I'm honest about it...it sounds like victimization with a Christianity flavor applied. Even if the terms Black and White are to be taken as pure metaphores for oppressed and oppressor, Rev. White's interjection of this language into the Democratic debate certainly illuminates him as someone I am totally out of political alignment with. The question remains for me whether or not the same is true for Barack Obama.

[Bronco Jamus]

Anybody remember the party that tried to keep the black man from voting during and after radical reconstruction in the south?

Yep. Democrats.

[footstepsfrom#27]

As a white guy who is a member of a very well known and respected black church with a congregation of about 10,000 here in Dallas, I've been uniquely exposed to just about every conceivable theological viewpoint that resides in the black church overr the last 10 years.

Although my church is NOT a subscriber to black liberation theology (we hosted George Bush there twice)...ugh...I've encountered many people who do follow these ideas in my own congregation and because I've attended church elsewhere about two dozen times, often where these ideas are favored. I have NEVER failed to be welcomed with open arms EVERYWHERE I've visited. A few years ago when I was in some dire financial straights and unable to work, it was the churches...specifically the BLACK churches that helped me financially get back on my feet. Guess who would not help? Right...the wealthier WHITE churches in suburbia. Black churches often helped me even out of their own poverty.

The fact of the matter is, as a seminary trained Christian, though I disagree with the theological viewpoint that finds Israel's captivity in Egypt as representative of the plight of blacks in America today, or Jesus as a black man, I none the less completely agree that the white Christian church in America has turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to the plight of both the poor in general and blacks specifically. This is the reason that black liberation theology has found merit with so many poor African Americans in the first place. This ignornace and apathy of one of the great injustices in our society has long historical roots, and continues today, sometimes by design, but most often by simple ignorance. White evangelicals have done little or nothing to assist black congregations, form relationships with black Christians or interact with thier problems on any kind of scale that resembles more than the occassional exception...a fact that I consider amazing given the fact that the unity of the body of Christ is commanded by the Apostle Paul who specifically states that the old bariers of race and ethnicity are disolved in Christ, that these human barriers that once prevented unity are to be considered done away with.

The single greatest testimony to the love of God that white and black Christians profess to have in front of an unbelieving world is not going to be found in forcing your political views or your morality on the rest of society, or in how large your congregation is or how dynamic your arguments for Christianity are. Jesus said, "By THIS shall all men know you are my disciples, if you have love one for another". The single most powerful testimony to the world by the church would be found in it's deliberate willingness to come together across racial lines and do away with the racial, social and cultural barriers that seperate us in the face of societal pressure to do otherwise. But the church has not done that, and in fact has steadfastly refused to do this in this country.

Black liberation theology was born out of the refusal of the larger church...the WHITE church...in America to accept black members into their congregations or welcome them as equals. There are churches that do so, but historically these have remained few in number. The idea that the black church wil find acceptance amongst themselves, that they'll take responsibility for their own problems in their own communities...that part of black liberatin theology is no more racist than the reality of white churches in suburbia that focus their attention on the people who live arouond them...usually white, usually middle class, usually culturally consistent with the churches membership.

This is not racism. It's the response to racism, and if you don't understand that it's because you've never been inside a black church, never taken the time to find out how black people worship, how they feel about the larger world around them or their relationship to white Christianity. The views in this forum make that abundantly obvious.

[Arkie]

Obama could care less about Black Liberation Theology.

[Bladerunner]

As a white guy who is a member of a very well known and respected black church with a congregation of about 10,000 here in Dallas, I've been uniquely exposed to just about every conceivable theological viewpoint that resides in the black church overr the last 10 years.

Although my church is NOT a subscriber to black liberation theology (we hosted George Bush there twice)...ugh...I've encountered many people who do follow these ideas in my own congregation and because I've attended church elsewhere about two dozen times, often where these ideas are favored. I have NEVER failed to be welcomed with open arms EVERYWHERE I've visited. A few years ago when I was in some dire financial straights and unable to work, it was the churches...specifically the BLACK churches that helped me financially get back on my feet. Guess who would not help? Right...the wealthier WHITE churches in suburbia. Black churches often helped me even out of their own poverty.

The fact of the matter is, as a seminary trained Christian, though I disagree with the theological viewpoint that finds Israel's captivity in Egypt as representative of the plight of blacks in America today, or Jesus as a black man, I none the less completely agree that the white Christian church in America has turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to the plight of both the poor in general and blacks specifically. This is the reason that black liberation theology has found merit with so many poor African Americans in the first place. This ignornace and apathy of one of the great injustices in our society has long historical roots, and continues today, sometimes by design, but most often by simple ignorance. White evangelicals have done little or nothing to assist black congregations, form relationships with black Christians or interact with thier problems on any kind of scale that resembles more than the occassional exception...a fact that I consider amazing given the fact that the unity of the body of Christ is commanded by the Apostle Paul who specifically states that the old bariers of race and ethnicity are disolved in Christ, that these human barriers that once prevented unity are to be considered done away with.

The single greatest testimony to the love of God that white and black Christians profess to have in front of an unbelieving world is not going to be found in forcing your political views or your morality on the rest of society, or in how large your congregation is or how dynamic your arguments for Christianity are. Jesus said, "By THIS shall all men know you are my disciples, if you have love one for another". The single most powerful testimony to the world by the church would be found in it's deliberate willingness to come together across racial lines and do away with the racial, social and cultural barriers that seperate us in the face of societal pressure to do otherwise. But the church has not done that, and in fact has steadfastly refused to do this in this country.

Black liberation theology was born out of the refusal of the larger church...the WHITE church...in America to accept black members into their congregations or welcome them as equals. There are churches that do so, but historically these have remained few in number. The idea that the black church wil find acceptance amongst themselves, that they'll take responsibility for their own problems in their own communities...that part of black liberatin theology is no more racist than the reality of white churches in suburbia that focus their attention on the people who live arouond them...usually white, usually middle class, usually culturally consistent with the churches membership.

This is not racism. It's the response to racism, and if you don't understand that it's because you've never been inside a black church, never taken the time to find out how black people worship, how they feel about the larger world around them or their relationship to white Christianity. The views in this forum make that abundantly obvious.

I've little doubt that this is largely true, but I find the generalization of today's white society as oppressors to be alienating, and I have a far thicker skin for such ideas than most in my experience. This is why this is a political grenade for Obama...I'm sure he's hoping its a dud.

[Bob]

I would disagree with your assertion that Republicans didn't care about the indescretions of Larry Craig. Many wanted him out and did their best to pressure him to leave but realized eventually he wasn't going to leave so they moved on. Besides, he is not running for reelection so he'll be gone as of January '09 anyway. Meanwhile, Mark Foley resigned immediately or there would have been major pressure from Republicans for him to resign.

Yes, you can probably cite Republicans who did not get pressure from the right to resign but, in general, they do a better job of policing their own than Democrats do.

I guess I am just damn tired when we give party members passes, and then jump all over someone when thier ideological framework doesnt matchup.

[Bob]

As a white guy who is a member of a very well known and respected black church with a congregation of about 10,000 here in Dallas, I've been uniquely exposed to just about every conceivable theological viewpoint that resides in the black church overr the last 10 years.

Although my church is NOT a subscriber to black liberation theology (we hosted George Bush there twice)...ugh...I've encountered many people who do follow these ideas in my own congregation and because I've attended church elsewhere about two dozen times, often where these ideas are favored. I have NEVER failed to be welcomed with open arms EVERYWHERE I've visited. A few years ago when I was in some dire financial straights and unable to work, it was the churches...specifically the BLACK churches that helped me financially get back on my feet. Guess who would not help? Right...the wealthier WHITE churches in suburbia. Black churches often helped me even out of their own poverty.

The fact of the matter is, as a seminary trained Christian, though I disagree with the theological viewpoint that finds Israel's captivity in Egypt as representative of the plight of blacks in America today, or Jesus as a black man, I none the less completely agree that the white Christian church in America has turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to the plight of both the poor in general and blacks specifically. This is the reason that black liberation theology has found merit with so many poor African Americans in the first place. This ignornace and apathy of one of the great injustices in our society has long historical roots, and continues today, sometimes by design, but most often by simple ignorance. White evangelicals have done little or nothing to assist black congregations, form relationships with black Christians or interact with thier problems on any kind of scale that resembles more than the occassional exception...a fact that I consider amazing given the fact that the unity of the body of Christ is commanded by the Apostle Paul who specifically states that the old bariers of race and ethnicity are disolved in Christ, that these human barriers that once prevented unity are to be considered done away with.

The single greatest testimony to the love of God that white and black Christians profess to have in front of an unbelieving world is not going to be found in forcing your political views or your morality on the rest of society, or in how large your congregation is or how dynamic your arguments for Christianity are. Jesus said, "By THIS shall all men know you are my disciples, if you have love one for another". The single most powerful testimony to the world by the church would be found in it's deliberate willingness to come together across racial lines and do away with the racial, social and cultural barriers that seperate us in the face of societal pressure to do otherwise. But the church has not done that, and in fact has steadfastly refused to do this in this country.

Black liberation theology was born out of the refusal of the larger church...the WHITE church...in America to accept black members into their congregations or welcome them as equals. There are churches that do so, but historically these have remained few in number. The idea that the black church wil find acceptance amongst themselves, that they'll take responsibility for their own problems in their own communities...that part of black liberatin theology is no more racist than the reality of white churches in suburbia that focus their attention on the people who live arouond them...usually white, usually middle class, usually culturally consistent with the churches membership.

This is not racism. It's the response to racism, and if you don't understand that it's because you've never been inside a black church, never taken the time to find out how black people worship, how they feel about the larger world around them or their relationship to white Christianity. The views in this forum make that abundantly obvious.

Very thoughtful response –

You are correct, that it may be (in part) a response to racism – but there comes a point when that response is at best a reflection of the bigotry that has existed in America for generations. In the case of the underpinnings of Black Liberation theology, and holding to bizarre, and I dare say paranoid concepts like the American government created Aids in a genocidal attempt to wipe out blacks – it crosses the line of reaction, to amplification of hate and bigotry.
Just because someone has wronged me, doesn’t mean, I become justified in responding in kind, or doing something worse – I think that might be something Jesus taught about at some point….hmmm.

[Bob]

Obama could care less about Black Liberation Theology.

But his pastor believes in it, and Obama allowed his family to be subjected to it for 20 years...

[Bob]

I've little doubt that this is largely true, but I find the generalization of today's white society as oppressors to be alienating, and I have a far thicker skin for such ideas than most in my experience. This is why this is a political grenade for Obama...I'm sure he's hoping its a dud.

I dont think so --- who else is going to get the nod -- Hilary cant win can she? If she gets the Superdeligates -- people will be pissed -- and I guess I would be pissed too.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Why cant those left of center be honest on this one?

Hilarious!

I'm sorry, but a lecture on honesty or integrity from a republican and a Bush supporter is just too funny.

Even if all of your accusations about Obama are legit, you still come off like a guy who is "outraged" about a shoplifter stealing a pack of chewing gum while a bank robbery is going on right next door to your house.

:D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Poll suggests Obama unscathed by pastor controversy

The poll was taken Monday and Tuesday, a week after Obama's landmark speech on race in America in which he criticized his former pastor Jeremiah Wright's comments on racism and US foreign policy, but declined to denounce him.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080327/pl_afp/usvote_080327095321

[W*GS]

LABF is turning into an Obamaniac.

[Bob]

Hilarious!

I'm sorry, but a lecture on honesty or integrity from a republican and a Bush supporter is just too funny.

Even if all of your accusations about Obama are legit, you still come off like a guy who is "outraged" about a shoplifter stealing a pack of chewing gum while a bank robbery is going on right next door to your house.

:D

At least I can bash Bush, McCain, and Obama --

Your lame assumption is that to be against one idea -- one has to be for the other -- that may reflect your smallness -- not me, or most others.

[W*GS]

Your lame assumption is that to be against one idea -- one has to be for the other -- that may reflect your smallness -- not me, or most others.

That's LABF in a nutshell. He cannot believe that to be against X, one must therefore be for Y. The possibility that one could be against both X and Y just cannot reside in his wee brain.

[Spider]

It isnt as easy as sex , I will tell you this Bob, when discussing race topics , it is so easy to get misunderstood , or taken out of context ....... The Black male sees the world with a different point of view , then you or me .... Racism is still alive and well , cant tell you how many times I have heard the word ****er used in Savannah GA , or in Canton N.C.......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

At least I can bash Bush, McCain, and Obama --

Your lame assumption is that to be against one idea -- one has to be for the other -- that may reflect your smallness -- not me, or most others.

If this is true, then why would I post an article like this one?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1929782&postcount=17

The lame assumption is yours.

[kappys]

I've little doubt that this is largely true, but I find the generalization of today's white society as oppressors to be alienating, and I have a far thicker skin for such ideas than most in my experience. This is why this is a political grenade for Obama...I'm sure he's hoping its a dud.

Racism is still a strong living memory for most minority peoples. Not just the racism of the 60's but even the casual racism of the 80's was there for younger folks. I think society as a whole has gotten much better about racism since the 90's, but that is a very short peiod of time and people do not forget their lives as children so quickly.

[Bob]

It isnt as easy as sex , I will tell you this Bob, when discussing race topics , it is so easy to get misunderstood , or taken out of context ....... The Black male sees the world with a different point of view , then you or me .... Racism is still alive and well , cant tell you how many times I have heard the word ****er used in Savannah GA , or in Canton N.C.......

All true...

I grew-up in Chicago -- its seems like it may a different type of bigotry there. When one black family moved in (at least this was the case when I was a kid) there was something called "white flight," where folks would move away -- some moved because of the color of another's skin, but most others because of the color of money -- when the first few left others became concerned that it would deflate the value of their home, so folks jumped on the money train to leave first before they lost value ...-- kinda like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Arkie]

But his pastor believes in it, and Obama allowed his family to be subjected to it for 20 years...

For political gains back then. Now the chickens coming home to roost...

[Bob]

For political gains back then. Now the chickens coming home to roost...

At best he did it for political gain, and turned a blind eye to some of the things said. It seems that Michell Obama has bought into more of it -- and the victim mentality.

[Rohirrim]

For political gains back then. Now the chickens coming home to roost...

I hadn't thought of that. Being a member of that church was probably a great boost for him when he was involved in local, ward politics in Chicago. Doesn't work so well on the national stage.

[RocBronc]

For political gains back then. Now the chickens coming home to roost...

Either way, (for political gain or he really believes it) it's bad for Obama....

It shows him to be either a manipulating politician or a racist/bigot.

[epicSocialism4tw]

For Black theologians White Americans do not have the ability to recognize the humanity in persons of color, Blacks need their own theology to affirm their identity in terms of a reality that is anti-Black--Blackness stands for all victims of White oppression. "White theology," when formed in isolation from the Black experience, becomes a theology of White oppressors, serving as divine sanction from criminal acts committed against Blacks. Cone argues that even those White theologians who try to connect theology to Black suffering rarely utter a word that is relevant to the Black experience in America. White theology is not Christian theology at all. There is but one guiding principle of Black theology: an unqualified commitment to the Black community as that community seeks to define its existence in the light of God's liberating work in the world.


This is what you call voluntary segregation. It's saying "We're here, we dont want to be here, and we dont want anything to do with anglos, hispanics, chinese, indians, or black africans."

[footstepsfrom#27]

We're mired in the midst of a Viet Nam type war that's cost us over $500 billion to this point and our mililtary is stretched dangerously thin. Our efforts to root out Al Quaeda in Afghanistan have come to standstill. Our economy is in the crapper and more and more jobs are leaving to go elsewhere. Our image around the world has suffered major damage even among our own allies. The price of oil is skyrocketing and we're in danger of seeing the world switch from the dollar to the euro to buy oil with, which would collapse the entire US economy. The US housing market has essentially already collapsed under the combined weight of foreclosures and the economic ruin being visited on the middle class. We have the highest wave of unfettered immigration in our history with no end in site. Our education and health care systems are a complete joke. Our criminal justice system is incarcerating or supervising 1/3 of all the black males in America. Political coruption is so rampant that we're looking more and more like a banana republic.

But by God let's make sure we focus on what's REALY important...Barack Obama's pastor might be a racist!

This is why I left the Republican party. Pathetic...absolutely pathetic.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Our economy is in the crapper and more and more jobs are leaving to go elsewhere.

This is a grave concern.

Our image around the world has suffered major damage even among our own allies.

This matters very little. Once the USSR wilted under pressure, there was no bad guy to take the heat off os us. We became it. I dont see that changing unless our country is destroyed.

The US housing market has essentially already collapsed under the combined weight of foreclosures and the economic ruin being visited on the middle class. We have the highest wave of unfettered immigration in our history with no end in site.

Both of these are serious concerns.

Our education and health care systems are a complete joke.


On the former...Iit sure would be nice to get our tax dollars back so that we can spend it on better education. On the latter...you embelish. People come from all over the world to be seen by our doctors.


Our criminal justice system is incarcerating or supervising 1/3 of all the black males in America.

It sure would help black males to integrate rather than segregate. That's a nice place to start. Then they could work on keeping away from petty, bitter little people like Wright who indoctrinate them with hate and victimization.

Political coruption is so rampant that we're looking more and more like a banana republic.

Is this anything new? Et tu Brute.

But by God let's make sure we focus on what's REALY important...Barack Obama's pastor might be a racist!

And Obama just might be a self-absorbed whack job.

[footstepsfrom#27]

And Obama just might be a self-absorbed whack job.
On the basis of what, might I ask? His church affiliation? That's an enormous stretch. Obama is the first Presidential candidate in my lifetime that has spent the largest majority of his time outside of politics helping people rather than trying to accumulate power and wealth despite the fact he clearly has the ability to do that. Even if you disagree with his politics, and as a former conservative Republican who voted for Reagan twice, holds to a fiscally conservative view of government, sides with pro life issues, etc..., I clearly understand why you do. But you have to look at what he's done prior to this and respect this man. How many people do you think have the character to carry an advanced education from the best universities in the world into the poorest places in our country and use what they have to try to make a difference rather than a profit knowing they'd have to fight through being rejected as an outsider?

Very few.

How many of THAT group of individuals do you think have the ability to work at the highest levels of the US government to reach across political party lines in order to get things accomplished?

Far fewer yet.

I have a question for you...have you read the book The Audacity of Hope? If not...do yourself a favor and get it. If you have an open mind you'll come away feeling much different.

[Spider]

Yeah me personally , I cant afford another 4 years of a republican , through hard work and me and my Brother busting ass , we cleared 850 .00 a piece Last week after all of our expenses were paid .......I still cant vote for Obama though . the coke thing

[W*GS]

Ol' "27" is an Obamaniac. Ya know, politicians live for groupies...

[baja]

Yeah me personally , I cant afford another 4 years of a republican , through hard work and me and my Brother busting ass , we cleared 850 .00 a piece Last week after all of our expenses were paid .......I still cant vote for Obama though . the coke thing

Spider either you are going to have to lower the bar or vote for a mannequin.

[peacepipe]

Stupid Pat Robertson Quotes
From Daniel Kurtzman,

The 10 Stupidest Things Pat Robertson Ever Said
10) "Over 100 years, I think the gradual erosion of the consensus that’s held our country together is probably more serious than a few bearded terrorists who fly into buildings." –Pat Robertson, on the dangers of judicial activism

9) "Lord, give us righteous judges who will not try to legislate and dominate this society. Take control, Lord! We ask for additional vacancies on the court." –Pat Robertson

8) "Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians. Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history." –Pat Robertson

7) "I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you, This is not a message of hate -- this is a message of redemption. But a condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs; it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor." –Pat Robertson, on "gay days" at Disneyworld

6) "(T)he feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." –Pat Robertson

5) "I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period." –Pat Robertson

4) "I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected him from your city. And don't wonder why he hasn't helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I'm not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that's the case, don't ask for his help because he might not be there." --Pat Robertson, after the city of Dover, Pennsylvania voted to boot the current school board, which instituted an intelligent design policy that led to a federal trial

3) "God considers this land to be his. You read the Bible and he says 'This is my land,' and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says, 'No, this is mine.' ... He was dividing God's land. And I would say, 'Woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the E.U., the United Nations, or the United States of America.' God says, 'This land belongs to me. You better leave it alone.'" --Pat Robertson, on why Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon suffered a massive stroke

2) "Maybe we need a very small nuke thrown off on Foggy Bottom to shake things up" –Pat Robertson, on nuking the State Department

1) "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with." –Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez

Bonus Stupid Quote:

"Wait a minute, I didn't say 'assassination.' I said our special forces should 'take him out,' and 'take him out' can be a number of things, including kidnapping." –Pat Robertson, clarifying his call to assassinate Hugo Chavez

Extra Bonus Stupid Quote:

"Is it right to call for assassination? No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him." –Pat Robertson

[W*GS]

I see. A Christian right-wing white nutcase excuses a Christian black nutcase.

[peacepipe]

I think they're all nut cases,but this is more in referance to those who seem to have a double standard about wrights' comments.

[peacepipe]

"You Helped This Happen"
Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson react to the September 11 terrorist attacks on American soil.




Partial transcript of comments from the Thursday, September 13, 2001 edition of the '700 Club.'

JERRY FALWELL: And I agree totally with you that the Lord has protected us so wonderfully these 225 years. And since 1812, this is the first time that we've been attacked on our soil and by far the worst results. And I fear, as Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, said yesterday, that this is only the beginning. And with biological warfare available to these monsters - the Husseins, the Bin Ladens, the Arafats--what we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact--if, in fact--God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.

PAT ROBERTSON: Jerry, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population.

JERRY FALWELL: The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, yes.

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way--all of them who have tried to secularize America--I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system.

JERRY FALWELL: Pat, did you notice yesterday the ACLU, and all the Christ-haters, People For the American Way, NOW, etc. were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress as they went out on the steps and called out on to God in prayer and sang "God Bless America" and said "let the ACLU be hanged"? In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time--calling upon God.

PAT ROBERTSON: Amen

[Spider]

I see. A Christian right-wing white nutcase excuses a Christian black nutcase.

LOL ****ing classic ...... this post would have been ok from anyone but you ...1 st class hypocrite ...

[Spider]

Spider either you are going to have to lower the bar or vote for a mannequin.

or do a write in .Stevie wonder isnt busy , he could use the extra income from paying job

[W*GS]

As usual, Spider's addled brain misses the mark.

[Spider]

As usual, Spider's addled brain misses the mark.

:rofl: yeah . sure thing .....Mr bring up all the bad Dems have done everytime Bushs name was mentioned ....you just need to sit in the corner with a dunce hat on and think this out

[W*GS]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1930840&postcount=40

[footstepsfrom#27]

Ol' "27" is an Obamaniac. Ya know, politicians live for groupies...
Classic.

In your world, ANYONE, not yet so cyncial and jaded that their entire life revolves around the need to destroy other people's hopes for a better country...is a "groupie".

If you were twice as smart as you think you are, you might be mildly entertaining.

[W*GS]

Classic.

In your world, ANYONE, not yet so cyncial and jaded that their entire life revolves around the need to destroy other people's hopes for a better country...is a "groupie".

Looking to politicians to fix things is a very strong sign of a delusional illness. Politicians are a huge part of the problem - not bringers of solutions. Heaping so much hope and faith onto Obama will only lead to disappointment and disillusionment. Guaranteed.

The dude ain't God, and there are sound reasons to believe he would make some things much worse than they already are. If you're not willing to grant that, then you're a groupie.

If you were twice as smart as you think you are, you might be mildly entertaining.

If you were any more worshipful of Obama, you'd be building temples for the guy.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Looking to politicians to fix things is a very strong sign of a delusional illness. Politicians are a huge part of the problem - not bringers of solutions. Heaping so much hope and faith onto Obama will only lead to disappointment and disillusionment. Guaranteed.
If you were paying attention, you'd understand that the message he's pushing is that it's NOT politicians, including him...who can change things. It's us. Not surprisingly...it went right by you.
The dude ain't God, and there are sound reasons to believe he would make some things much worse than they already are. If you're not willing to grant that, then you're a groupie.
The fact that you think there are "sound reasons" for something, pretty much convince me the opposite is probably true. If I'm "not willing to grant that"...ie; "if I'm not willing to agree with you"...then I'm a "groupie"?... Hilarious!

In W*GS World, being an informed voter=being a groupie. LOL

[Spider]

Classic.

In your world, ANYONE, not yet so cyncial and jaded that their entire life revolves around the need to destroy other people's hopes for a better country...is a "groupie".

If you were twice as smart as you think you are, you might be mildly entertaining.

LOL a legend in his own mind

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Classic.

In your world, ANYONE, not yet so cyncial and jaded that their entire life revolves around the need to destroy other people's hopes for a better country...is a "groupie".

If you were twice as smart as you think you are, you might be mildly entertaining.

:yep: ^5

[BroncoBuff]

JERRY FALWELL: The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, yes.

JERRY FALWELL: The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad.
CLASSIC! ROFL!

Funny ... I'm a member of the ACLU, and they said nothing on the website or in the qurterlies about backing bin Laden....

[W*GS]

If you were paying attention, you'd understand that the message he's pushing is that it's NOT politicians, including him...who can change things. It's us. Not surprisingly...it went right by you.

So why does Obama want to be President so badly if (as you claim) he says politicians like himself won't fix things? Perhaps he let slip that he's in it just for the power and the ability to **** us over - without any pretense of trying to do what's right...

If he really believes what you claim, then the first thing he'd do if he became President would be to resign from the office, and if we're lucky, fall on a sword. Why do I suspect that such honor won't take place?

The fact that you think there are "sound reasons" for something, pretty much convince me the opposite is probably true. If I'm "not willing to grant that"...ie; "if I'm not willing to agree with you"...then I'm a "groupie"?... Hilarious!

It's pretty obvious you're smitten with the guy. That makes you unreasonable.

In W*GS World, being an informed voter=being a groupie. LOL

No. Slobbering all over Obama, as you've done repeatedly, makes you one of his groupies.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I think they're all nut cases,but this is more in referance to those who seem to have a double standard about wrights' comments.

Does anyone take Robertson seriously outside of the 70+ crowd?

[footstepsfrom#27]

So why does Obama want to be President so badly if (as you claim) he says politicians like himself won't fix things? Perhaps he let slip that he's in it just for the power and the ability to **** us over - without any pretense of trying to do what's right...
Hey nitwit...Obama's been working in the slums of Harlem and Chicago with a law degree long before he entered politics. What have you done?
If he really believes what you claim, then the first thing he'd do if he became President would be to resign from the office, and if we're lucky, fall on a sword. Why do I suspect that such honor won't take place?
Do you sniff glue?

[Bob]

Stupid Pat Robertson Quotes
From Daniel Kurtzman,

The 10 Stupidest Things Pat Robertson Ever Said
10) "Over 100 years, I think the gradual erosion of the consensus that’s held our country together is probably more serious than a few bearded terrorists who fly into buildings." –Pat Robertson, on the dangers of judicial activism

9) "Lord, give us righteous judges who will not try to legislate and dominate this society. Take control, Lord! We ask for additional vacancies on the court." –Pat Robertson

8) "Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians. Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history." –Pat Robertson

7) "I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you, This is not a message of hate -- this is a message of redemption. But a condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs; it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor." –Pat Robertson, on "gay days" at Disneyworld

6) "(T)he feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." –Pat Robertson

5) "I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period." –Pat Robertson

4) "I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected him from your city. And don't wonder why he hasn't helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I'm not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that's the case, don't ask for his help because he might not be there." --Pat Robertson, after the city of Dover, Pennsylvania voted to boot the current school board, which instituted an intelligent design policy that led to a federal trial

3) "God considers this land to be his. You read the Bible and he says 'This is my land,' and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says, 'No, this is mine.' ... He was dividing God's land. And I would say, 'Woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the E.U., the United Nations, or the United States of America.' God says, 'This land belongs to me. You better leave it alone.'" --Pat Robertson, on why Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon suffered a massive stroke

2) "Maybe we need a very small nuke thrown off on Foggy Bottom to shake things up" –Pat Robertson, on nuking the State Department

1) "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with." –Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez

Bonus Stupid Quote:

"Wait a minute, I didn't say 'assassination.' I said our special forces should 'take him out,' and 'take him out' can be a number of things, including kidnapping." –Pat Robertson, clarifying his call to assassinate Hugo Chavez

Extra Bonus Stupid Quote:

"Is it right to call for assassination? No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him." –Pat Robertson

Of course if he were running for pres I would not consider voting for him...

[Bob]

I think they're all nut cases,but this is more in referance to those who seem to have a double standard about wrights' comments.

Teh whole point of this thread is that folks give passes to those who belonf to their club, and a pass to teh other guy. If Robertson was running again I would not vote for him. One cant defend Obama, by pointing out that there are whack jobs on the other side of the isle ... that by definition would be deflection.

Out of those running for office, and getting traction, and who may be teh leader of teh free world -- McCain, Hilary, Obama ...

[Bob]

Does anyone take Robertson seriously outside of the 70+ crowd?

I dont even take him seriously as a TV evangalist....

Its like saying, but "hey look what David Duke said." Well, if he were running, and he was getting close to being nominated as an R, then it would be fair game.

He isnt running is he? Is Pat running again? I think Obama is running, and their appears to be a double standard being implimented, as if a black person could not possibly be racist..., becuase Wright's hate is justified, and he just cant help it?

[Spider]

Teh whole point of this thread is that folks give passes to those who belonf to their club, and a pass to teh other guy. If Robertson was running again I would not vote for him. One cant defend Obama, by pointing out that there are whack jobs on the other side of the isle ... that by definition would be deflection.

Out of those running for office, and getting traction, and who may be teh leader of teh free world -- McCain, Hilary, Obama ...

wasnt you the one trippin over double standards ? Pat Robertson endorses McCain , how come Pat Robersons or John Hagees aka McCains spiritual adviser are not attached to McCain ?
Perhaps you should be a tad bit more aware and Cautious before you call everyone out , for doing the same thing you just did in that post ........

[peacepipe]

I dont even take him seriously as a TV evangalist....

Its like saying, but "hey look what David Duke said." Well, if he were running, and he was getting close to being nominated as an R, then it would be fair game.

He isnt running is he? Is Pat running again? I think Obama is running, and their appears to be a double standard being implimented, as if a black person could not possibly be racist..., becuase Wright's hate is justified, and he just cant help it? Niether is rev. Wright. noone should take Wright anymore seriously than they would Pat Robertson,because there is no differance between the 2.

[Arkie]

Pat Robertson is backing McCain. Farrakhan is backing Obama. We're all screwed.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Hey nitwit...Obama's been working in the slums of Harlem and Chicago with a law degree long before he entered politics. What have you done?

Do you sniff glue?

Heh heh heh! Ha!

That might explain why W*GS lives in a world so curiously untainted by reality.

[Bob]

wasnt you the one trippin over double standards ? Pat Robertson endorses McCain , how come Pat Robersons or John Hagees aka McCains spiritual adviser are not attached to McCain ?
Perhaps you should be a tad bit more aware and Cautious before you call everyone out , for doing the same thing you just did in that post ........

Oh, I get it... My fault.

I must have not read all of the post ...

Obviously, not the best right-wing preacher to be endorsed by. I would be ok with most preachers not him, though -- and I think if McCain stood side by side with him, that would have been a wrong move. If he just got "endorsed" by him, like Obama literally was endorsed by the leader of the Black Panthers (not a side by side TV moment) than any whacko can say (like Barbra Streisand) hey I would like to endorse Hilary, and that politician would just grimace and move on.

Did McCain go to his church? Was McCain giving money to the tune of $1000’s to Pat Robertson? I doubt it. Or is McCain being a prostitute for political gain (which is wicked, although perhaps to a different degree?)

So, to me -- if McCain stood with him (which I would not doubt he would do) I think that would be low, but there is little reason for me to think that McCain believes in the same things, as he connection to Robertson, was formed over a twenty minute photo op, rather than a 20 year indoctrination. If McCain donated 1000's of dollars, and went to that church most weekends, I think that would be another reason to not vote for McCain.

On another note I personally will not be able to vote for McCain as he would screw-up on a bigger level than Bush, and open the border wide-open, and people would think McCain somehow represents conservatism, and by degrees redefine, and kill the broader movement.

[peacepipe]

Oh, I get it... My fault.

I must have not read all of the post ...

Obviously, not the best right-wing preacher to be endorsed by. I would be ok with most preachers not him, though -- and I think if McCain stood side by side with him, that would have been a wrong move. If he just got "endorsed" by him, like Obama literally was endorsed by the leader of the Black Panthers (not a side by side TV moment) than any whacko can say (like Barbra Streisand) hey I would like to endorse Hilary, and that politician would just grimace and move on.

Did McCain go to his church? Was McCain giving money to the tune of $1000’s to Pat Robertson? I doubt it. Or is McCain being a prostitute for political gain (which is wicked, although perhaps to a different degree?)

So, to me -- if McCain stood with him (which I would not doubt he would do) I think that would be low, but there is little reason for me to think that McCain believes in the same things, as he connection to Robertson, was formed over a twenty minute photo op, rather than a 20 year indoctrination. If McCain donated 1000's of dollars, and went to that church most weekends, I think that would be another reason to not vote for McCain.

On another note I personally will not be able to vote for McCain as he would screw-up on a bigger level than Bush, and open the border wide-open, and people would think McCain somehow represents conservatism, and by degrees redefine, and kill the broader movement.
when robertson endorsed him they were side by side.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Did McCain go to his church? Was McCain giving money to the tune of $1000’s to Pat Robertson? I doubt it. Or is McCain being a prostitute for political gain (which is wicked, although perhaps to a different degree?)
Yeah, prostitutiong yourself to the religious right so you can appeal to WHITE people is so much better...LOL McCain's merely trying to tap the GWB constituency who rejected him outright in 2000.

Did you think about that when you wrote it?

[W*GS]

That might explain why W*GS lives in a world so curiously untainted by reality.

This from the guy who disowns his own score on the politicalcompass.org survey...

[gunns]

Yes, you can probably cite Republicans who did not get pressure from the right to resign but, in general, they do a better job of policing their own than Democrats do.

So true. They profile and screw the whites right along with everyone else.

[Cito Pelon]

Pat Robertson is backing McCain. Farrakhan is backing Obama. We're all screwed.

Louis Farrakhan is backing Obama? I haven't seen a Black Muslim in my entire life. I've seen pictures. I was in downtown LA the day after the Rodney King riots and saw plenty of African-Americans pointing their fingers at me making the pistol motion with their trigger fingers, none of them with bowties. The second day there were less making the trigger finger deal, none of them with bowties, the third day it was back to business, and none with bowties.

[Spider]

Oh, I get it... My fault.

I must have not read all of the post ...

Obviously, not the best right-wing preacher to be endorsed by. I would be ok with most preachers not him, though-- and I think if McCain stood side by side with him, that would have been a wrong move. McCain did though , and then defended Hagee ........


If he just got "endorsed" by him, like Obama literally was endorsed by the leader of the Black Panthers (not a side by side TV moment) than any whacko can say (like Barbra Streisand) hey I would like to endorse Hilary, and that politician would just grimace and move on. That still doesnt answer the question though , why doesnt Hagee words stick to McCain with you ? Hagees hate runs alot deeper then Obamas preacher . could it be part of you agrees with alot of Hagee said , or that you are not aware of Hagee and his message , got caught up with the Obamas preacher story , and thought you had a clear cut case of left wing hypocrisy?

Did McCain go to his church? Was McCain giving money to the tune of $1000’s to Pat Robertson? I doubt it. Or is McCain being a prostitute for political gain (which is wicked, although perhaps to a different degree?) McSame err McCain supports Hagee and knows him on a personal level .....

[ElwayMD]

It isnt as easy as sex , I will tell you this Bob, when discussing race topics , it is so easy to get misunderstood , or taken out of context ....... The Black male sees the world with a different point of view , then you or me .... Racism is still alive and well , cant tell you how many times I have heard the word ****er used in Savannah GA , or in Canton N.C.......

Surprisingly I have seen less racism since I moved down south (not that it doesn't exist) than I did living in Pittsburgh, PA. The most racist state I ever lived in was Maine. It makes sense though. Pittsburgh (not a very diverse city racially) and Maine (well Maine...it's Maine) have a small minority population so it's presumably easier for prejudice to breed and grow.

[yavoon]

Yeah, prostitutiong yourself to the religious right so you can appeal to WHITE people is so much better...LOL McCain's merely trying to tap the GWB constituency who rejected him outright in 2000.

Did you think about that when you wrote it?

appealing to social conservatives during an election cycle by emphasizing what you're gna do that they like, and trying to minimize the parts they hate about you is not even remotely similar to having a "father figure" pastor who personally brought you to christianity for 2 decades...blah blah....baptized children....blah....married him....inspired book. you get idea.

[footstepsfrom#27]

appealing to social conservatives during an election cycle by emphasizing what you're gna do that they like, and trying to minimize the parts they hate about you is not even remotely similar to having a "father figure" pastor who personally brought you to christianity for 2 decades...blah blah....baptized children....blah....married him....inspired book. you get idea.
Yeah, I get the idea.

One guy attends a church that does a lot of great things in Chicago's black community despite some of the personal failings and outdated attitudes of it's minister, while the other guy is just another politician pathetically pandering to a group of people he probably hates but needs in order to win the election.

One guy admits he doesn't see eye to eye with his minister but still respects him on the merits of the other things he's seen in his life over 20 years and refuses to reject him even though he knows he's definitely going to lose votes because of it. The other guy hypocritically pretends he's buddy buddy with someone just so he can get their endorsement.

It's crystal clear.

[yavoon]

Yeah, I get the idea.

One guy attends a church that does a lot of great things in Chicago's black community despite some of the personal failings and outdated attitudes of it's minister, while the other guy is just another politician pathetically pandering to a group of people he probably hates but needs in order to win the election.

One guy admits he doesn't see eye to eye with his minister but still respects him on the merits of the other things he's seen in his life over 20 years and refuses to reject him even though he knows he's definitely going to lose votes because of it. The other guy hypocritically pretends he's buddy buddy with someone just so he can get their endorsement.

It's crystal clear.

haha, seriously, obama is a saint for sitting through that church for 20 years! a saint! lololololol.

face it, in all likelihood obama believes most or all of wright's snippets. obama is also longtime friends with another chicago pastor, who also happens to love louis farrakhan. obama in his book talks extensively about buddying up to radical feminists, marxists and the like in college and even described his time at a corporation as "going behind enemy lines."

but I guess we shall ignore all that because he says something different during a political campaign. oh he truly is the messiah.

[footstepsfrom#27]

face it, in all likelihood obama believes most or all of wright's snippets. obama is also longtime friends with another chicago pastor, who also happens to love louis farrakhan. obama in his book talks extensively about buddying up to radical feminists, marxists and the like in college and even described his time at a corporation as "going behind enemy lines."
What book would that be?

[yavoon]

What book would that be?

I'll try to find quoties for you.

" Only Malcolm X’s autobiography seemed to offer something different. His repeated acts of self-creation spoke to me. The blunt poetry of his words, his unadorned insistence on respect, promised a new and uncompromising order, martial in its discipline, forged through sheer force of will. All the other stuff, the talk of blue-eyed devils and apocalypse, was incidental to that program, I decided. Religious baggage that Malcolm himself seemed to have safely abandoned toward the end of his life. And yet, even as I imagine myself following Malcolm’s call, one line in the book stayed with me. He spoke of a wish he’d once had, the wish that the white blood that ran through him, there by an act of violence, might somehow be expunged. I knew that for Malcolm, that wish would never be incidental. I knew as well that traveling down the road to self-respect, my own white blood would never recede into mere abstraction. I was left to wonder what else I would be severing, if and when I left my mother and my grandparents at some uncharted border. "

" To avoid being mistaken for such a sellout, I chose my friends carefully: the more politically active black students, the foreign students, the Chicanos, the Marxist professors and structural feminists, and punk rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Frantz Fanon, Euro-centrism, and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet, or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake, we were resisting Bourgeois society’s stifling constraints. We weren’t indifferent or careless or insecure. We were alienated. "

"Eventually, a consulting house to a multinational corporation agreed to hire me as a research assistant. Like a spy behind enemy lines, I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office, and sat at my computer terminal, checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages from across the globe. As far as I could tell, I was the only black man in the company, a source of shame for me, but a source of considerable pride for the company’s secretarial pool. "

[footstepsfrom#27]

I'll try to find quoties for you.
I didn't ask for quotes. I asked you what book he wrote says those things.

[yavoon]

I didn't ask for quotes. I asked you what book he wrote says those things.

fine, "dreams from my father"

[footstepsfrom#27]

I'll try to find quoties for you.

" Only Malcolm X’s autobiography seemed to offer something different. His repeated acts of self-creation spoke to me. The blunt poetry of his words, his unadorned insistence on respect, promised a new and uncompromising order, martial in its discipline, forged through sheer force of will. All the other stuff, the talk of blue-eyed devils and apocalypse, was incidental to that program, I decided. Religious baggage that Malcolm himself seemed to have safely abandoned toward the end of his life. And yet, even as I imagine myself following Malcolm’s call, one line in the book stayed with me. He spoke of a wish he’d once had, the wish that the white blood that ran through him, there by an act of violence, might somehow be expunged. I knew that for Malcolm, that wish would never be incidental. I knew as well that traveling down the road to self-respect, my own white blood would never recede into mere abstraction. I was left to wonder what else I would be severing, if and when I left my mother and my grandparents at some uncharted border. "

" To avoid being mistaken for such a sellout, I chose my friends carefully: the more politically active black students, the foreign students, the Chicanos, the Marxist professors and structural feminists, and punk rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Frantz Fanon, Euro-centrism, and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet, or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake, we were resisting Bourgeois society’s stifling constraints. We weren’t indifferent or careless or insecure. We were alienated. "

"Eventually, a consulting house to a multinational corporation agreed to hire me as a research assistant. Like a spy behind enemy lines, I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office, and sat at my computer terminal, checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages from across the globe. As far as I could tell, I was the only black man in the company, a source of shame for me, but a source of considerable pride for the company’s secretarial pool. "
Now post the html link where you obtained this information.

[Spider]

Yeah, I get the idea.

One guy attends a church that does a lot of great things in Chicago's black community despite some of the personal failings and outdated attitudes of it's minister, while the other guy is just another politician pathetically pandering to a group of people he probably hates but needs in order to win the election.

One guy admits he doesn't see eye to eye with his minister but still respects him on the merits of the other things he's seen in his life over 20 years and refuses to reject him even though he knows he's definitely going to lose votes because of it. The other guy hypocritically pretends he's buddy buddy with someone just so he can get their endorsement.

It's crystal clear.
well since you put it that way ;D

[Bob]

Yeah, prostitutiong yourself to the religious right so you can appeal to WHITE people is so much better...LOL McCain's merely trying to tap the GWB constituency who rejected him outright in 2000.

Did you think about that when you wrote it?

Not all of the religious right are white. You are right that McCain would like to appeal to the religous right -- he will get some who hold their nose -- but he is a RINO. I think that taking the enorsement of those you may have serious ideologiocal differences with is low, and calculating, I think that hanging out at a church that has racist underpinnings for twenty years can not, nor should not be excused away -- even if he is your favorite Socialist. Again, if the words were flipped, and the situation was reversed please dont lie and tell me McCain woudl still be standing -- the media would have crushed him, and he would be in some type of hate therapy.

[Bob]

[QUOTE=Spider;1931796]McCain did though , and then defended Hagee ........


That still doesnt answer the question though , why doesnt Hagee words stick to McCain with you ? Hagees hate runs alot deeper then Obamas preacher . could it be part of you agrees with alot of Hagee said , or that you are not aware of Hagee and his message , got caught up with the Obamas preacher story , and thought you had a clear cut case of left wing hypocrisy?

Spider, I guess I have not even heard the Hagee story -- I am just being honest. Does the story line of Hagee go something like this "McCain went to Hagee's church for twenty years and is a member of the KKK?, and preaches hate?"

Again, not a fan of anyone in this race -- I wish I was. It must be nice to really believe in someone. I do not know anything about this Hagee story, but in the effort to be consistent, I will say that if McCain is hanging out with someone who is a chosen mentor, and who says things -- like what Wright said in reverse, I would be equally disgusted with McCain. Its not like I know McCain is hanging with bigots, but I still feel a perverse need to vote for him. I am not going to vote for him at this point.

I think that McCain is dangerous (from a long-term perspective) to the conservative movement (as I define it) as that If I vote for him, and If he gets into office, and If he screws up as bad as I think he will -- then people will point him as a true conservative, and how his conservative policies destroyed the country --- When actually the inverse will be true. Our wonderful county is going down because we are spending too much, because we are giving big brother too much control, and we are loosing our common heritage and values. McCain would make it impossible for a real conservative to rise from the ashes, because the very definition of conservative will have been forever altered. I am in the minority, but that’s how I see it. McCain is not a compromise, he is a sell out.

I do doubt that McCain was hanging out with a current KKK member -- THE REASON I DOUBT IT, is that CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, and NPR would be showing video clips of Hagee talking about how the black man started the Aids virus to kill whites.... and McCain would have been out of the race before it started.

This does appear a VERY CLEAR CASE of hypocrisy. But, its not like I cant see examples of it in those that would vote more like me ...

Spider, its not like either one of us have to protect "the club" at all costs. The R" club abandoned me when they felt like the border did not matter any more.

Hell, where I am going to find a person who is as tight fisted as Ron Paul, with the personality and presentation of Reagan, the character of Lincoln, and the stones of Churchill? It may be against the R" club mindset, and ethics, but I am in my lab right now cloning, just such a person...

[baja]

Surprisingly I have seen less racism since I moved down south (not that it doesn't exist) than I did living in Pittsburgh, PA. The most racist state I ever lived in was Maine. It makes sense though. Pittsburgh (not a very diverse city racially) and Maine (well Maine...it's Maine) have a small minority population so it's presumably easier for prejudice to breed and grow.

Maine is much less racist since my father moved to Connecticut.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I'll try to find quoties for you.

" Only Malcolm X’s autobiography seemed to offer something different. His repeated acts of self-creation spoke to me. The blunt poetry of his words, his unadorned insistence on respect, promised a new and uncompromising order, martial in its discipline, forged through sheer force of will. All the other stuff, the talk of blue-eyed devils and apocalypse, was incidental to that program, I decided. Religious baggage that Malcolm himself seemed to have safely abandoned toward the end of his life. And yet, even as I imagine myself following Malcolm’s call, one line in the book stayed with me. He spoke of a wish he’d once had, the wish that the white blood that ran through him, there by an act of violence, might somehow be expunged. I knew that for Malcolm, that wish would never be incidental. I knew as well that traveling down the road to self-respect, my own white blood would never recede into mere abstraction. I was left to wonder what else I would be severing, if and when I left my mother and my grandparents at some uncharted border. "

" To avoid being mistaken for such a sellout, I chose my friends carefully: the more politically active black students, the foreign students, the Chicanos, the Marxist professors and structural feminists, and punk rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Frantz Fanon, Euro-centrism, and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet, or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake, we were resisting Bourgeois society’s stifling constraints. We weren’t indifferent or careless or insecure. We were alienated. "

"Eventually, a consulting house to a multinational corporation agreed to hire me as a research assistant. Like a spy behind enemy lines, I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office, and sat at my computer terminal, checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages from across the globe. As far as I could tell, I was the only black man in the company, a source of shame for me, but a source of considerable pride for the company’s secretarial pool. "


These quotes were all recently featured on someone's talk radio show...Obama reading his own book aloud for an audio book.

Obama sounds like he might be a somewhat decent guy, but he wont get anywhere if he doesnt understand corporate America, its benefits, and that he is absolutely obligated to navigate through politik with the people that would have hired him from afar in that corporation. If he becomes president, it becomes his duty to facilitate for those corporations in ways that benefit the corp and the community.

He's a communist of sorts, and that is scary.

[Spider]

[QUOTE=Spider;1931796]McCain did though , and then defended Hagee ........


That still doesnt answer the question though , why doesnt Hagee words stick to McCain with you ? Hagees hate runs alot deeper then Obamas preacher . could it be part of you agrees with alot of Hagee said , or that you are not aware of Hagee and his message , got caught up with the Obamas preacher story , and thought you had a clear cut case of left wing hypocrisy?

Spider, I guess I have not even heard the Hagee story -- I am just being honest. Does the story line of Hagee go something like this "McCain went to Hagee's church for twenty years and is a member of the KKK?, and preaches hate?"

Again, not a fan of anyone in this race -- I wish I was. It must be nice to really believe in someone. I do not know anything about this Hagee story, but in the effort to be consistent, I will say that if McCain is hanging out with someone who is a chosen mentor, and who says things -- like what Wright said in reverse, I would be equally disgusted with McCain. Its not like I know McCain is hanging with bigots, but I still feel a perverse need to vote for him. I am not going to vote for him at this point.

I think that McCain is dangerous (from a long-term perspective) to the conservative movement (as I define it) as that If I vote for him, and If he gets into office, and If he screws up as bad as I think he will -- then people will point him as a true conservative, and how his conservative policies destroyed the country --- When actually the inverse will be true. Our wonderful county is going down because we are spending too much, because we are giving big brother too much control, and we are loosing our common heritage and values. McCain would make it impossible for a real conservative to rise from the ashes, because the very definition of conservative will have been forever altered. I am in the minority, but that’s how I see it. McCain is not a compromise, he is a sell out.

I do doubt that McCain was hanging out with a current KKK member -- THE REASON I DOUBT IT, is that CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, and NPR would be showing video clips of Hagee talking about how the black man started the Aids virus to kill whites.... and McCain would have been out of the race before it started.

This does appear a VERY CLEAR CASE of hypocrisy. But, its not like I cant see examples of it in those that would vote more like me ...

Spider, its not like either one of us have to protect "the club" at all costs. The R" club abandoned me when they felt like the border did not matter any more.

Hell, where I am going to find a person who is as tight fisted as Ron Paul, with the personality and presentation of Reagan, the character of Lincoln, and the stones of Churchill? It may be against the R" club mindset, and ethics, but I am in my lab right now cloning, just such a person...I see it is ok to hate a groupd of people as long as you havent done it for 20 years or a member of the KKK ......... thanks for the insight ..... I think I am going to hate Holly Rollers , Those people really dont deserve to be here in America

I see the light now , it is ok to hate certian groups as long as you ha

[footstepsfrom#27]

Not all of the religious right are white.
The number of non-white evangelicals & catholics is very small. Black evangelicals are overwhelmingly democratic, but yeah, you're right...you can probably find an occasional black or hispanic individual or even a church that's on board with the politicaly conservative agenda the RR has...so what? You know good and well the RR was the key vote that won for GWB, just as they were key to Regan and Bush 1 as well.
You are right that McCain would like to appeal to the religous right -- he will get some who hold their nose -- but he is a RINO. I think that taking the enorsement of those you may have serious ideologiocal differences with is low, and calculating, I think that hanging out at a church that has racist underpinnings for twenty years can not, nor should not be excused away -- even if he is your favorite Socialist.
First, if you're referencing me here, I'm not a socialist, and in fact I'm not even a democrat. I'm a former Republican, now turned disgusted independent voter. I'm pro life, pro strong defense, pro fiscal conservative policy voter who went twice for Reagan and voted for Bush the elder as well. My allies on this board have frequently also been my opponents on a range of issues including abortion and churches having non profit status. I call things as I see them and I don't give a rat crap about party politics or loyalty to some blind idealogy over principal, especially when the party of Reagan has been the party of stupidity for 8 years running now.

Second, who are you to judge why Obama has been a member of this church as if you can read this guy's spiritual motives? You obviously know little about the black church in America and it's dual, and sometimes seemingly contradictory roles in spiritual and political life for their communities. Your suggestions that it's part of some orchestrated political plan hatched decades ago to propell him to political power are ludicrous since his membership pre-dates his political involvement by nearly a decade. Oprah Winfrey's a member at this church too. I guess she has some kind of racist ractionary or political reason for being there as well right?

As for McCain, there is much to commend him for, particuarly his record of exemplary military service and his ordeal in Viet Nam. But this is probably the strongest reason that McCain is exactly the wrong man for the times. I have no doubt McCain is planning to not only continue the war in Iraq, but press it to Iran as well. Why? For one reason, John McCain would love nothing more than to prove he's a better Commander in Chief than George W. Bush, whom he hates with a passion. He has good reason too BTW. Second, McCain is such a military guy I think he seriously believes he's personally the answer to winning this war. A vote for him is a vote for another trillion or so in debt over a war we will never win and should not be fighting.

You attack Obama's character. But maybe you're unaware of the fact that McCain has a LONG history of saying one thing and doing another when it comes to ethics. McCain has led multiple fights in the Senate over corruption and things like campaign finance reform. Only one problem...at the same time he's done so, he was also taking money on the sly. McCain was part of the infamous "Keating Five"...five US senators who were in the hip pocket of banker Charles Keating over his failing bank and these guys were his personal connection with the regulators who were investigating him. He wiggled out of this with friends in high places. McCain's been the subject of plenty of scandals realtated to political influence including the telcom industry's shady relationship with him...something he's embroiled in right now.

McCain's a hypocrit. In the 2000 Presidential election McCain dissavowed the very people's he's now schmoozing up to. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9904EFDE1239F93AA15751C0A9669C8B 63

Here's a direct quote: "...we embrace the fine members of the religious conservative community. But that does not mean that we will pander to their self-appointed leaders." He was speaking about Jerry Fallwell and Pat Roberson at the time, two guys who don't even approach the nut job status of Hagee, who I think is mentally unballanced. I say this as a former member of the religious right BTW. But times change eh? McCain learned in the 2000 election after his dirty fight with Bush in South Carolina that the conservatives in the RR were critically important if a REP wants to get elected as President. Suddenly the very guys he couldn't stand are now his buddies. You can bet McCain won't stop with kissing Hagee's *** either now that he's go the ball rolling. McCain's not stupid...look for him to go full throttle after the same people who put Dubya in the white house for 8 years.
Again, if the words were flipped, and the situation was reversed please dont lie and tell me McCain woudl still be standing -- the media would have crushed him, and he would be in some type of hate therapy.
If you're to dense to understand the difference between these two things, I certainly can't help you. Whites are IN POWER...hence the advocates of WHITE POWER are hate mongering lunatics like skin heads and neo nazis, etc...blacks are NOT IN POWER and have been sh!t on for a few hundred years around here. Thus reasonable people understand their need for black organizations, black advocacy groups...maybe even a black church that gets a bit testy with white America from time to time and says some nutty stuff but still does great work in the black community. The fact that you continue to beat this drum is telling. I have no doubt that those who want to see Obama defeated for purely racial reasons are behind the attempt to distort his image and his character.

Want a see a real racist? Look in the white house. Obama goes to church where a guy says some inflamatory and controversial stuff. Bush, on the other hand... killed an American city. Not surprisingly you think the former is worth talking about but I'll bet the mortgage you saw nothing amiss in New Orleans now did ya?

[footstepsfrom#27]

I'll try to find quoties for you.

" Only Malcolm X’s autobiography seemed to offer something different. His repeated acts of self-creation spoke to me. The blunt poetry of his words, his unadorned insistence on respect, promised a new and uncompromising order, martial in its discipline, forged through sheer force of will. All the other stuff, the talk of blue-eyed devils and apocalypse, was incidental to that program, I decided. Religious baggage that Malcolm himself seemed to have safely abandoned toward the end of his life. And yet, even as I imagine myself following Malcolm’s call, one line in the book stayed with me. He spoke of a wish he’d once had, the wish that the white blood that ran through him, there by an act of violence, might somehow be expunged. I knew that for Malcolm, that wish would never be incidental. I knew as well that traveling down the road to self-respect, my own white blood would never recede into mere abstraction. I was left to wonder what else I would be severing, if and when I left my mother and my grandparents at some uncharted border. "

" To avoid being mistaken for such a sellout, I chose my friends carefully: the more politically active black students, the foreign students, the Chicanos, the Marxist professors and structural feminists, and punk rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Frantz Fanon, Euro-centrism, and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet, or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake, we were resisting Bourgeois society’s stifling constraints. We weren’t indifferent or careless or insecure. We were alienated. "

"Eventually, a consulting house to a multinational corporation agreed to hire me as a research assistant. Like a spy behind enemy lines, I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office, and sat at my computer terminal, checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages from across the globe. As far as I could tell, I was the only black man in the company, a source of shame for me, but a source of considerable pride for the company’s secretarial pool. "
I know you didn't read this book...you're merely doing what any other fool can do; pulling quotes off the web. Obama's writing style frequently makes mention of first person naratives detailing his thinking...good and bad...growing up. In fact you're to clueless to even understand that some of the very quotes you listed show him dissaproving the stuff you say he's advocating...his quotes on Malcolm X for example...did you not get what he was saying? Read it again...better yet go buy the book and read THAT before you start tossing this crap around. I've already read the Audacity of Hope and so I can easily recognize what this is...you apparently can't.

[yavoon]

I know you didn't read this book...you're merely doing what any other fool can do; pulling quotes off the web. Obama's writing style frequently makes mention of first person naratives detailing his thinking...good and bad...growing up. In fact you're to clueless to even understand that some of the very quotes you listed show him dissaproving the stuff you say he's advocating...his quotes on Malcolm X for example...did you not get what he was saying? Read it again...better yet go buy the book and read THAT before you start tossing this crap around. I've already read the Audacity of Hope and so I can easily recognize what this is...you apparently can't.

blah blah adhominem blah blah defensive. I know you're probably as far left as obama and think america is a ****hole and companies are the enemy and louis farrakhan/reverend wright/malcolm x are inspiring but a lot of americans don't.

[footstepsfrom#27]

blah blah adhominem blah blah defensive. I know you're probably as far left as obama and think america is a ****hole and companies are the enemy and louis farrakhan/reverend wright/malcolm x are inspiring but a lot of americans don't.
You're to lazy to know what I believe, because if you weren't you'd have used that little search thingy up there in the right corner...just move your mouse about 3 inches if that's not to much trouble.

In yavoon's world, anyone who wants to comprehend the civil rights struggle from outside their own race's experience is a raving lefty. ROFL!

[epicSocialism4tw]

I dont think that honesty is even a virtue important to "those left of center."

The only virtuous things are those things that advance their cause.

[Arkie]

Honesty is not a virtue important to politicians, not the ones that rise to the top, anyway.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I dont think that honesty is even a virtue important to "those left of center."

The only virtuous things are those things that advance their cause.
http://www.ocbfchurch.org/images/images_A2738/Church%20and%20state%20are%20tough%20to%20separate %20in%20the%20inner%20city%20-%20baltimoresun.pdf

[epicSocialism4tw]

http://www.ocbfchurch.org/images/images_A2738/Church%20and%20state%20are%20tough%20to%20separate %20in%20the%20inner%20city%20-%20baltimoresun.pdf

I should clarify, I guess.

Classic liberal moral relativists tend to see virtue as devotion to their cause.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I dont think that honesty is even a virtue important to "those left of center."

The only virtuous things are those things that advance their cause.

Hilarious!

This from a shameless and inveterate supporter of Bush and the GOP?

That's too funny.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Classic liberal moral relativists tend to see virtue as devotion to their cause.

:oyvey:

Moral absolutists are like those people who believe only their own tastes in music or art are valid.

[epicSocialism4tw]

This from a shameless and inveterate supporter of Bush and the GOP?

That's too funny.

I am beginning to wonder if LABF is a cogniscient human or an auto response program that spits out some variation of two things in every post:

1) Anti-Bush propaganda images from some democrat volunteer photochop house

or

2) Some form of this: "This from a shameless and inveterate supporter of Bush and the GOP?"

[Dukes]

I am beginning to wonder if LABF is a cogniscient human or an auto response program that spits out some variation of two things in every post:

1) Anti-Bush propaganda images from some democrat volunteer photochop house

or

2) Some form of this: "This from a shameless and inveterate supporter of Bush and the GOP?"

That's pretty much all he has to cling to anymore. Hate rules his life

[epicSocialism4tw]

Moral absolutists are like those people who believe only their own tastes in music or art are valid.

Spoken like a true moral relativist. Whatever gets you where you want to go is alright...its alright.

Taste in art and behavioral standards are unrelated topics.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I am beginning to wonder if LABF is a cogniscient human or an auto response program that spits out some variation of two things in every post:

1) Anti-Bush propaganda images from some democrat volunteer photochop house

or

2) Some form of this: "This from a shameless and inveterate supporter of Bush and the GOP?"

tsk tsk

Typical "attack the messenger and pretend you've refuted the message."

I guess we can't expect much more than this from a member of such a thoroughly discredited movement/party.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That's pretty much all he has to cling to anymore. Hate rules his life

All you have left to cling to is your "criticism of Bush = hate" strawman.

Oh well, I guess I have to give you credit for trying a new variation (that old "criticism of Bush's policies = hatred of America" thing was getting old.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Spoken like a true moral relativist. Whatever gets you where you want to go is alright...its alright.

Either this is just another straw man argumant or you have no clue what moral relativism actually entails.

Taste in art and behavioral standards are unrelated topics.

Wrong.

Many of the same principles that apply to aesthetics apply to morals.

[Dukes]

All you have left to cling to is your "criticism of Bush = hate" strawman.

Oh well, I guess I have to give you credit for trying a new variation (that old "criticism of Bush's policies = hatred of America" thing was getting old.

Wow you really got me there. ::)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Wow you really got me there. ::)

No doubt about it.

http://www.bartcop.com/heckuva-economy.jpg

[Dukes]

:clown:

[Spider]

2) Some form of this: "This from a shameless and inveterate supporter of Bush and the GOP?"

1 simple lesson I thought everyone learned growing up ...... if the Shoe fits wear it pal .... and #2 fits you to a tee , not so much lately , but to a lesser point it does .Getting pissed at LABF for your own stupidity wont get you far .. man up admit you were a retard sucking off Bush , the truth shall set you free ......And this just doesnt go to you alone Angry , lot of mother ****ers need to man up ......

[gunns]

Does yavoon drink before he posts? If so then his posts are entertaining. If not....explains how Bush got elected....twice....scary.

Willl Duke have an adequate response? I can't remember, is he the guy that thinks what's going on in Iraq right now is a bump in the road? Or was that LoneBolt? They are so interchangeable and both so limited in legitimate thought.

Has Llama been anointed a Saint yet? Well what's the damn hold up. How many Saints can you get that know it all?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Does yavoon drink before he posts? If so then his posts are entertaining. If not....explains how Bush got elected....twice....scary.

Willl Duke have an adequate response? I can't remember, is he the guy that thinks what's going on in Iraq right now is a bump in the road? Or was that LoneBolt? They are so interchangeable and both so limited in legitimate thought.

Has Llama been anointed a Saint yet? Well what's the damn hold up. How many Saints can you get that know it all?

:~ohyah!: ^5

[Spider]

ok I am done with hating Holly Rollers , you tell them you hate them , they smile and say we will pray for you , thats no fun ...... So I found a new breed of people to hate . The fat redneck with a gotee and bald head , drives a Chevy pick up and smokes Camels ....... these bastards need to be brought down .........

[Bob]

[QUOTE=Bob;1932382]I see it is ok to hate a groupd of people as long as you havent done it for 20 years or a member of the KKK ......... thanks for the insight ..... I think I am going to hate Holly Rollers , Those people really dont deserve to be here in America

I see the light now , it is ok to hate certian groups as long as you ha

No, Hate is wrong -- it is wrong to hate people for a lable or becuase of skin color. I dont think that I really am giving McCain a pass ... if he did something wrong, but havent taken much time on teh story you brought up, or seen much in teh news about it. If he did something racist he shoudl be "called out" on it --

I do think that there are different degrees of doing something that is racist dont you? As you are familiar with both situations do you think they are equal? If it was, than I say damn McCain too. To me Obama was at best passive, and turned a blind eye toward hate speech for political gain...

If McCain is a bastard racist for something he did or said make the case, and this Hagee guy --line me out, I can take some correction. Tell the world. Maybe I need to work less, and watch the news more, and I too would be incensed. I dont need to defend McCain, but my guess is that the IF there was much to any cries of racism the media woudl be less kind to an old white Republican -- dont you think? Do you have to be a Dem ad machine, on this issue Spider -- do you have to show support for the Democratic Messiah? Or can we just say -- Obama was a knucklehead for listening to this guy, and that he should have shown more character? Likewise, with McCain if he did something that is the same -- I say screw him... See? It wasnt hard for me. It might be good therapy for many on this board --

[footstepsfrom#27]

ok I am done with hating Holly Rollers?
Who is Holly Rollers and what did she do to you? ;D

[Bob]

[QUOTE=footstepsfrom#27;1932558]

If you're to dense to understand the difference between these two things, I certainly can't help you. Whites are IN POWER...hence the advocates of WHITE POWER are hate mongering lunatics like skin heads and neo nazis, etc...blacks are NOT IN POWER and have been sh!t on for a few hundred years around here. Thus reasonable people understand their need for black organizations, black advocacy groups...maybe even a black church that gets a bit testy with white America from time to time and says some nutty stuff but still does great work in the black community. The fact that you continue to beat this drum is telling. I have no doubt that those who want to see Obama defeated for purely racial reasons are behind the attempt to distort his image and his character.
QUOTE]

You are a great writer, and make a good argument -- I do disagree – you make too many assumptions. The end goal does not justify the means. I am concerned with what I see as a double standard -- not only in race relations, but also when both parties give a pass to their own, but slam the other guy. I suggest that someone start a thread about McCain’s bigotry, if he has these types of issues and associations.

I think that when we apply a double standard to one minority group because of a horrific past (like you suggest that we do with African Americans) and give someone who is black, a pass, just because he happens to be black. This may piss you off, but doesnt it reflect a paternal mentality and your low expectations of this broad group when you sugest that becuase of past wrongs, that now two wrongs can somehow make amends? These low expectations may have long-term detrimental effects and is like patting some little kid on the head -- and saying "its ok, you cant help it." Victim-hood and justification of hate does not raise anyone to a higher standard (or even an equal standand) or greater independence. It makes one, like Michelle Obama, state that she was “proud for the first time in her life,” as she has seen her husband do well in the polls. Is she kidding? She has an Ivy League education. But perhaps she learned such ideas while sitting down in the pew and listening to how she was not blessed, and how America was not a great place to live.

Wouldn’t it be more intellectually consistent and respectful to treat others as you would wish to be treated, and apply the same standards for what in Wright's case was hate speech?

[Spider]

[QUOTE=Spider;1932491]

No, Hate is wrong -- it is wrong to hate people for a lable or becuase of skin color.

But I didnt hate them for 20 years , so it isnt that bad ........

[Spider]

Who is Holly Rollers and what did she do to you? ;D

nothing penicillin couldnt take care of ;D

[yavoon]

You're to lazy to know what I believe, because if you weren't you'd have used that little search thingy up there in the right corner...just move your mouse about 3 inches if that's not to much trouble.

In yavoon's world, anyone who wants to comprehend the civil rights struggle from outside their own race's experience is a raving lefty. ROFL!

I can "comprehend" the civil rights struggle w/o voting for racists. some ppl may think otherwise.