05 Was a Fluke.

[rugbythug]

The team was actually better in 04 and 03 we just don't match up well with the Colts, just like we match up great against the Pats. Here is the real kicker, Shanahan knew 05 was a fluke, and had the stones to make the moves we needed to be competitive next year (08). Think about it, where would we be if Shanahan had grabbed a DT instead of Cutler. The Chiefs and Raiders would be flipping coins with us for the rights to 3,4, or 5.

If the O-Line is even average we can win 10 games this year.

Coyer is only thought of as good because Bates was terrible. Coyer's D's had great 1st quarters and Terrible 4th. He had no in game changes that worked in any game ever.

I think Bates was done in by the Defensive Holding Call. With out it his tubs of goo were put on skates.

Why is it Shanny gets blasted for Marcus Nash way more often than he is hailed for Al Wilson? (in the same draft as Nash famed talent evaluator Jimmy Johnson took John Avery with his first)

[bronco militia]

no, joke plummer was a fluke

[Bronco Jamus]

Plummer despite his work ethic and flaws played great here. At no time were we a fluke, just incomplete.

[bronco militia]

yeah he was so good the broncos traded up to draft Jay Cutler the following offseason

[Killericon]

True. Shanahan knew that it was time to rebuild, set us down the right path and now we're miles ahead in said process than other teams.

I don't agree that '05 was a fluke, though. We played quality ball that year.

[bronco militia]

it was a great year, but I remember most fans were calling for shanny's head going into that season. the broncos were coming off the 2nd big blow out loss to the colts.

reminds me a lot of right now.

anyway, Shanny jumped the in shark in 2006 by letting Trevor Pryce, Sourbuns and Mike Anderson walk that offseason.

[Punisher]

Thats sad Rug really 05 was a Great year..In My eyes we only had 2 bad games..And really stop looking in the past just look ahead it's silly to talk about 05 when a 08 season is coming up:oyvey:

[Popcorn Sutton]

Plummer had his best season of his career and we almost had two 1,000 yard rushers... I wouldn't say it was a fluke.

What does it have to do with now? This team is COMPLETELY different.

[Bronco Jamus]

yeah he was so good the broncos traded up to draft Jay Cutler the following offseason

I don't think there are too many QB's we could have had and Coach would pass up on the opportunity to draft Cutler.

[Killericon]

Thats sad Rug really 05 was a Great year..In My eyes we only had 2 bad games..And really stop looking in the past just look ahead it's silly to talk about 05 when a 08 season is coming up:oyvey:

No doubt, but I think it's a good point to make in Mike Shanahan's defense that after a terrific '05 season, instead of trying to reload with a roster that he knew wouldn't last long, he began dismantling it and rebuilding it right then and there. Instead of throwing all his eggs in one basket and trying to sell the farm to get to the the Super Bowl one more time, he decided that the best plan was to try for long-term success. I really appreciate that Bowlen has given him the kind of job security needed to make such a decision, and I'm really glad that we have Mike Shanahan leading the way. Considering the amount of roster turnover we've experienced in the past 3 years, we should be glad that we're coming off a 7-9 season.

[rovolution]

We would have beat Pittsburgh had Shannon decided to delay his retirement till atleast after 2005.

Dang it Shannon why did you retire after 2003?

[DBBBSBS]

and the need for this thread was ...... ?????

[rugbythug]

and the need for this thread was ...... ?????

Greater than the need for this post

[enjolras]

I'll never forget that smirk Shannahan had during the post-draft news conference the year we got Cutler. That was a man who truly thought he had pulled off the deal of the century.

Little by little I think Jay is proving him right.

[DBBBSBS]

Greater than the need for this post

what is so great Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

[wolf754life]

absolute power left unchecked is very, very dangerous! see 2007 broncos!

DRAFTBUSToHAN!!!

[Orange_Beard]

Plummer despite his work ethic and flaws played great here. At no time were we a fluke, just incomplete.

Great?

Elway was great.

[Rausch 2.0]

There is little need to tell this to Donk fans but you are what you are.

The regular season weeds out the douches and props up the dedicated.

The postseason shows who are contenders, who are climbing teams, and who just isn't ready for the limelight yet.

Pretty much the whole AFCW hit the rebuild button at the same time. Only SD stands as a clear choice for champ and they've got internal problems as well.

[maher_tyler]

True. Shanahan knew that it was time to rebuild, set us down the right path and now we're miles ahead in said process than other teams.

I don't agree that '05 was a fluke, though. We played quality ball that year.

I agree...we ran the ball good, didn't turn it over and had a lot of take aways.

[ro_50]

This has to be one of the more POINTLES THREADS in history.

[Kaylore]

Plummer played as well as the team around him. When all the other parts in the machine were working he was solid. When things broke down, especially for an extended period of time, then he would crash hard. The worse Plummer played, the worse he played. For those that think all QB's are like that, it's not so. The top-tier QB's make their teammates look good. Our good team made Plummer look good.

He was solid for what we wanted to do, but with no real difference maker at either receiver or running back we didn't really have a shot for the big dance. During that time I was a big advocate for getting an explosive running back. Shanahan went the other way and got a QB. It had to be done. We had our shot and Plummer turned the ball over four times. Lepsis getting owned didn't help, but the interceptions were not a result of pressure but Plummer making horrible decisions.

I think Plummer overachieved for what people expected from him coming out of college and I'll always be grateful for the big wins he helped us with. 2005 was a great season with some of the best games in recent Bronco history: Vs. Pats, Vs. Eagles, thanksgiving at Dallas - lots of great games that season. We're a new team and it's time to move forward.

[Jason in LA]

'05 wasn't a fluke. Plummer didn't make many mistakes. They ran the ball well, and they played good D. That sounds like the making of a good team to me.

I'd say that Shanny knew that he wasn't going to get enough out of Plummer, and that at some point Plummer was going to go back to throwing picks (which did happen), so he brought in a real QB. If that '05 team had Cutler they would have won the Super Bowl.

[DarkHorse30]

The team was actually better in 04 and 03 we just don't match up well with the Colts, just like we match up great against the Pats. Here is the real kicker, Shanahan knew 05 was a fluke, and had the stones to make the moves we needed to be competitive next year (08). Think about it, where would we be if Shanahan had grabbed a DT instead of Cutler. The Chiefs and Raiders would be flipping coins with us for the rights to 3,4, or 5.

If the O-Line is even average we can win 10 games this year.

Coyer is only thought of as good because Bates was terrible. Coyer's D's had great 1st quarters and Terrible 4th. He had no in game changes that worked in any game ever.

I think Bates was done in by the Defensive Holding Call. With out it his tubs of goo were put on skates.

Why is it Shanny gets blasted for Marcus Nash way more often than he is hailed for Al Wilson? (in the same draft as Nash famed talent evaluator Jimmy Johnson took John Avery with his first)

Spot on. I especially like the Coyer analysis. His defense NEVER seemed to make adjustments that I can recall. He had a bit of a pass rush, because he had Pryce, Berry and Heyward (8, 12, 8 sacks each) for 2003. Coyer got a bit of mileage out of that one, IMO. Also, the offense had Sharpe, Rod Smith, and Portis, so as usual a good offense helps an average to good defense.....except against Indy in their house when Plummer is throwing picks and (nameless poster's dreamback) Portis only manages 68 yards (on turf, no less). Agreed, optimism abounds:sunshine:

[Punisher]

'05 wasn't a fluke. Plummer didn't make many mistakes. They ran the ball well, and they played good D. That sounds like the making of a good team to me.

I'd say that Shanny knew that he wasn't going to get enough out of Plummer, and that at some point Plummer was going to go back to throwing picks (which did happen), so he brought in a real QB. If that '05 team had Cutler they would have won the Super Bowl.

Yup I agree if we'd had Cutler besides Plummer that year it would of been a 3rd Super Bowl in Orange Town

[Northman]

There is little need to tell this to Donk fans but you are what you are.

The regular season weeds out the douches and props up the dedicated.

The postseason shows who are contenders, who are climbing teams, and who just isn't ready for the limelight yet.

Pretty much the whole AFCW hit the rebuild button at the same time. Only SD stands as a clear choice for champ and they've got internal problems as well.

Aint that the truth.

[Killericon]

There is little need to tell this to Donk fans but you are what you are.

The regular season weeds out the douches and props up the dedicated.

The postseason shows who are contenders, who are climbing teams, and who just isn't ready for the limelight yet.

Pretty much the whole AFCW hit the rebuild button at the same time. Only SD stands as a clear choice for champ and they've got internal problems as well.

I thought the Raiders hit that button 5 years ago...

[Peoples Champ]

[QUOTE=rugbythug;1919705]

Coyer is only thought of as good because Bates was terrible. Coyer's D's had great 1st quarters and Terrible 4th. He had no in game changes that worked in any game ever.

QUOTE]



This is the truest thing I have heard in awhile. I saw this almost every game.

[Lev Vyvanse]

I thought the Raiders hit that button 5 years ago...

The raiders button is stuck.

[DarkHorse30]

The raiders button is stuck.

Hilarious!

[Bronco Jamus]

There is little need to tell this to Donk fans but you are what you are.

The regular season weeds out the douches and props up the dedicated.

The postseason shows who are contenders, who are climbing teams, and who just isn't ready for the limelight yet.

Pretty much the whole AFCW hit the rebuild button at the same time. Only SD stands as a clear choice for champ and they've got internal problems as well.

I agree with you on the last.

[BlaK-Argentina]

The raiders button is stuck.

Hilarious!

The difference is, when we rebuild we end up with a 7-9 record and just missing the playoffs. KC or Oakland can't get more than 4 wins.

That's what I find funny. Chefs and Faders fans coming in here to talk **** about us sucking when their teams suck twenty times worse.

[DBBBSBS]

i still dont understand the purpose of this stupid thread and why it was started.... :strong: :strong: :strong:

[DarkHorse30]

i still dont understand the purpose of this stupid thread and why it was started.... :strong: :strong: :strong:

Interesting. WHY would you spend any time even making one post on it....and then stuttering with the same post after your next naptime? Just curious.

[BroncoFiend]

i still dont understand the purpose of this stupid thread and why it was started.... :strong: :strong: :strong:

Dude, was that statement so important that you needed to make it twice?

Actually for the offseason this is the perfect thread since the decisions made after 05 very much directly effect the direction this team has decided to head. If Shanny decided to make the push to go that 'one game further' Cutler would not be a Bronco, if that were the case...where would this team be now?

See...interesting...a good topic for the offseason.

[Bladerunner]

I'm not sure that 03 and 04 teams were better than 05. Plummer played much better in 05, and the team was 13-3 with a brutal schedule (in retrospect).

I certainly agree that Shanahan knew that Plummer had maxed out in 05 (or more accurately, that he wouldn't be able to sustain his 05 level of play) and grabbed Cutler when he had the chance. I don't believe that this one move is enough to justify a claim that Shanny was rebuilding for 08. We have wasted too miuch money on free agents that didn't stick and played too many coach swapping games to be on course for any plan.

I'm sincerely hoping that this season brings some stability back to the club, and that we can develop as a team for the future, because even though Bowlen isn't in the business for it, I don't see his team being a contender in 08. Hope I'm wrong though.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Pretty much the whole AFCW hit the rebuild button at the same time. Only SD stands as a clear choice for champ and they've got internal problems as well.
Not trying to hijack the thread, and I noticed Bronco Jamus agreed specifically this, but I'm curious as to what you meant by internal problems?

I'm also happy to see a Bronco fan admitting to re-building. There were MANY who insisted last offseason that re-building- you were not... Unless BOTH lines are addressed in a major way through this year's draft (because it hasn't happened in FA), you'll still be a season or two away from completion, IMHO.

[Bronco Jamus]

I don't think the Chargers have internal problems. Not anymore with Marty gone.

I think the Bronco defensive line is heading in the right direction. We need guys in the middle, but hopefully the guys we have will get it done. The offensive line needs to get bigger and younger, but we can get it done to compete this season.

[rovolution]

Not trying to hijack the thread, and I noticed Bronco Jamus agreed specifically this, but I'm curious as to what you meant by internal problems?

I'm also happy to see a Bronco fan admitting to re-building. There were MANY who insisted last offseason that re-building- you were not... Unless BOTH lines are addressed in a major way through this year's draft (because it hasn't happened in FA), you'll still be a season or two away from completion, IMHO.

Its just kind of weird because for all these years, we were the ones who were winning championships and consistently winning while you guys were always in a rebuilding state, drafting Ryan Leaf, Watching Brees struggle mightly in his formative years, trading away your past in Seau and Harrison...


Now the tables have turned. My lord it feels strange.

I remember just yesterday when TD and Elway were destroying the Chargers and routing their pathetic squad. Even remember Plummer and Griese wreaking havoc on SD.

Enjoy these times Charger fans. They come and go quickly, even with AJs draft successes. I surely never thought the Broncos would hit massive bumps in the road under Shanny, and look where we are now.

[NW Bolt Fan]

I don't think the Chargers have internal problems. Not anymore with Marty gone.

I think the Bronco defensive line is heading in the right direction. We need guys in the middle, but hopefully the guys we have will get it done. The offensive line needs to get bigger and younger, but we can get it done to compete this season.Marty helped the team change it's attitude. But then his "nervousness" in important games transcended to the team...

As for your guys line, I'm not sure about yoru D-line yet. If some young guys pan out, you've made a step in the right direction, but I'm still not really convinced you have anyone that is a standout of the calibre of say a Trevor Pryce was... All last year's rookies need to improve- substantially (I liked Crowder teh best, and thought/think Jarvis Moss is a waste except for situational use).

That's why I'm under the impression you still need work on both lines. But, one thing is certain- as a collective group, they can't play too much worse than last year.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Its just kind of weird because for all these years, we were the ones who were winning championships and consistently winning while you guys were always in a rebuilding state, drafting Ryan Leaf, Watching Brees struggle mightly in his formative years, trading away your past in Seau and Harrison...


Now the tables have turned. My lord it feels strange.

I remember just yesterday when TD and Elway were destroying the Chargers and routing their pathetic squad. Even remember Plummer and Griese wreaking havoc on SD.

Enjoy these times Charger fans. They come and go quickly, even with AJs draft successes. I surely never thought the Broncos would hit massive bumps in the road under Shanny, and look where we are now.MOST Charger fans definitely relish this current run of success. Those types of years have been few and far between since I became a fan. As for Elway- dude has always been a stud. He made the careers of Shanny and Reeves. IMO, Shanny hasn't really had all that much success without him. While I think he's a tremendous gameday coach, his talent evaluation skills are seriously lacking (depending on who's credited with the picks- as debated here). Kind of like Schottenheimer- to a lesser degree. Marty was a good motivational coach, not necessarily a strategist. And was TERRIBLE with multiple personnel decisions...

[rovolution]

He made the careers of Shanny

Disagree.


And as a Charger fan you should know this the best, as Shanny and his Steve Young-led offense just decimated your squad in a SB.

The 49ers wanted to trade Young before Shanny showed up and made him a 2 time league MVP.

[rugbythug]

Marty helped the team change it's attitude. But then his "nervousness" in important games transcended to the team...

As for your guys line, I'm not sure about yoru D-line yet. If some young guys pan out, you've made a step in the right direction, but I'm still not really convinced you have anyone that is a standout of the calibre of say a Trevor Pryce was... All last year's rookies need to improve- substantially (I liked Crowder teh best, and thought/think Jarvis Moss is a waste except for situational use).

That's why I'm under the impression you still need work on both lines. But, one thing is certain- as a collective group, they can't play too much worse than last year.

Moss is an unknown his unjury made him Shut it down early in the year, My fear is that Moss has the smell of a Bates pick. Whether he will work in a different D is uknown.

The chargers as a team has had a great string of luck with players coming out of college known as inury prone and then being able to stay healthy in the pros.

merriman
Cromartie
Mcneill
Castillo

[NW Bolt Fan]

Disagree.


And as a Charger fan you should know this the best, as Shanny and his Steve Young-led offense just decimated your squad in a SB.

The 49ers wanted to trade Young before Shanny showed up and made him a 2 time league MVP.Bill Walsh traded for Young, and LOVED him IIRC. Yeah, Shanny directed that offense, but to be fair, the team was LOADED. So much so that salary cap rules were changed following that year... Our offense did okay, but our safties looked like pee-wees that day. Yes. I remember.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Moss is an unknown his unjury made him Shut it down early in the year, My fear is that Moss has the smell of a Bates pick. Whether he will work in a different D is uknown.

The chargers as a team has had a great string of luck with players coming out of college known as inury prone and then being able to stay healthy in the pros.

merriman
Cromartie
Mcneill
CastilloIt's just me personally that didn't like J. Moss. He seemed like a good college player who wouldn't cut it in the NFL. I certainly could be wrong- and have been before many times... As for Bolts staying healthy, I don't think anyone except Cromartie had "serious" injury issues from college. Merriman- nicked up. McNeill- narrow spine (still a legitimate concern for longterm NFL play). Castillo- elbow injury he played with his sr. year, then the Andro usage to "heal faster." But he also agree if he ever tested for anythying, he'd give back his bonus...

[Inkana7]

MOST Charger fans definitely relish this current run of success. Those types of years have been few and far between since I became a fan. As for Elway- dude has always been a stud. He made the careers of Shanny and Reeves. IMO, Shanny hasn't really had all that much success without him. While I think he's a tremendous gameday coach, his talent evaluation skills are seriously lacking (depending on who's credited with the picks- as debated here). Kind of like Schottenheimer- to a lesser degree. Marty was a good motivational coach, not necessarily a strategist. And was TERRIBLE with multiple personnel decisions...

I agree with you until that last part. Wherever he went, Marty built teams up. He got the Browns to 3 AFC Championships, he made the Chiefs respectable, and brought the Chargers to where they are today.

[boltaneer]

McNeill played through two broken hands in his rookie year.

Castillo has definitely been injury prone so far in his NFL career.

Merriman has played through some injuries (nothing major though).

I don't know how you can claim "luck" as for Cromartie staying injury free. The guy just became a starter in the middle of last season.

There's no luck involved here. You scout 'em. You have your doctors check them out and then you make your decision based off of all your information.

[NW Bolt Fan]

I agree with you until that last part. Wherever he went, Marty built teams up. He got the Browns to 3 AFC Championships, he made the Chiefs respectable, and brought the Chargers to where they are today.I give him alot of credit for helping turn them around, but I also felt he'd taken us as far as he could... He'd "tense" up for a pivotal game, and it showed in how the players performed. Maybe it'd have been different if he were the coach this past year, but who knows? Some of it was fluke, I know. The Byner fumble. The Elway "Drive". There was another one with Cleveland? Chiefs were always tough. Hated playing them when he was coach...

But he really personified the whole "playing not to lose" mentality, instead of playing to win. Probably the most glaring difference between him and Shanny. As a result, when he lost, it was by a narrow margin and painfully tense. But, when Shanny loses, sometimes it doesn't look good at all. Feast or famine as the saying goes.

[Inkana7]

Oh yeah. He obviously couldn't bring any team a championship, but to fault him for personnel and not being able to build a team is just wrong. I'm surprised Atlanta didn't bring Marty in, really.

[labronx]

Thread Officially Hijacked

[NW Bolt Fan]

Oh yeah. He obviously couldn't bring any team a championship, but to fault him for personnel and not being able to build a team is just wrong. I'm surprised Atlanta didn't bring Marty in, really.He had the final say in roster decisions. He chose Leon Johnson over Wes Welker... I could go on with his recclamation projects of players like Tamarick Vanover, etc.

Good motivational coach. Bad at much else. And a good coach can do A LOT with mediocre talent.

[NW Bolt Fan]

The team was actually better in 04 and 03 we just don't match up well with the Colts, just like we match up great against the Pats. Here is the real kicker, Shanahan knew 05 was a fluke, and had the stones to make the moves we needed to be competitive next year (08). Think about it, where would we be if Shanahan had grabbed a DT instead of Cutler. The Chiefs and Raiders would be flipping coins with us for the rights to 3,4, or 5.

If the O-Line is even average we can win 10 games this year.

Coyer is only thought of as good because Bates was terrible. Coyer's D's had great 1st quarters and Terrible 4th. He had no in game changes that worked in any game ever.

I think Bates was done in by the Defensive Holding Call. With out it his tubs of goo were put on skates.

Why is it Shanny gets blasted for Marcus Nash way more often than he is hailed for Al Wilson? (in the same draft as Nash famed talent evaluator Jimmy Johnson took John Avery with his first)To stop hijacking:

Even if the O-line improves play, without defense to support it, it'll be difficult to improve to 10 wins... Your offense was solid last year though punching the ball in did prove to be occasionally troublesome. The rest of the NFL jury remains impartial on Cutler. I know the love of him here on the Mane is ubiquitous, but he has not yet arrived.

Defensive holding is simply being enforced, however the consistency in the call is still shameful by officials. Additionally, it seems that "crafty" DBs seem to be getting away with more now that you're "allowed to put your hand on the back of a receiver, providing you don't grasp, push/pull"... A grey rule has been moved into some other color oustide the visible spectrum. With all the technology at our disposal, officiating this last season was the worst I've seen yet!

It's either Shanny or Sundquist who's most definitely NOT a good evaluator of talent. That will be settled soon enough.

[rugbythug]

To stop hijacking:

Even if the O-line improves play, without defense to support it, it'll be difficult to improve to 10 wins... Your offense was solid last year though punching the ball in did prove to be occasionally troublesome. The rest of the NFL jury remains impartial on Cutler. I know the love of him here on the Mane is ubiquitous, but he has not yet arrived.

Defensive holding is simply being enforced, however the consistency in the call is still shameful by officials. Additionally, it seems that "crafty" DBs seem to be getting away with more now that you're "allowed to put your hand on the back of a receiver, providing you don't grasp, push/pull"... A grey rule has been moved into some other color oustide the visible spectrum. With all the technology at our disposal, officiating this last season was the worst I've seen yet!

It's either Shanny or Sundquist who's most definitely NOT a good evaluator of talent. That will be settled soon enough.

If our offense plays better we can easily win 10 games. The defense is not talent less just improperly used. If we play to our strengths we could have a middle of the road scoring defense with very high turnover ratio's.

My reference to defensive holding was more about the defensive line. with out being able to hold our tubs of goo could not tie up 2 people.

I would put our last 3 drafts up against anyone in the league as far as talent acquisition.