Al Suing Broncos?

[SpringStein]

An intriguing legal battle has played out under the radar between the Denver Broncos and former linebacker Al Wilson.

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, Wilson is pursuing a grievance against the Broncos based on his belief that the team failed to give him appropriate medical advice and treatment after Wilson suffered a neck injury late in the 2006 season. Wilson played again in 2006 after suffering the injury.

The dispute, which recently went to a formal hearing, arose under Article XLIV of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Specifically, Section 1 requires the team to advise the player in writing of any condition that “could be significantly aggravated” by continued performance.

Wilson’s contention is that the Broncos failed to tell him in writing that he had a herniated disk in his neck. As a result, Wilson claims that he didn’t even know about the condition until he flunked a physical in April 2007, when he was being evaluated by the Giants in connection with a possible trade.

The trade fell through, and Wilson eventually was released. He had the injury repaired, and he is now pursuing a return to the NFL. He has visited with the Lions and the Browns.

Wilson claims that if he’d known about the condition, he would have had surgery in late 2006, and would have been ready for the 2007 season. Thus, he wants the base salary he would have earned from the Broncos if he had been able to play.

Several million dollars hang in the balance on this one. Stay tuned.


(from pft)

[RhymesayersDU]

Interesting stuff, actually.


Kind of reminds me of "Any Given Sunday," telling guys to play, etc.

[Bronco Billy]

It's hard being critical of the Broncos sometimes. But, they really screwed Al over IMO.

[That One Guy]

Wow, so much for the goodwill...

[Lestat]

wow if true that's gonna bruise some reps in dove valley

[summerdenver]

If Broncos knew the extent of the injury and hid it on purpose, that would be really bad.

[bronco militia]

so why did he wait a year to sue?

[rovolution]

If Broncos knew the extent of the injury and hid it on purpose, that would be really bad.

plus didnt he get injured when we were still in the playoff hunt? Maybe they had intentions of playing him in the NE game had we made the playoffs.

[RhymesayersDU]

Wilson’s contention is that the Broncos failed to tell him in writing that he had a herniated disk in his neck. As a result, Wilson claims that he didn’t even know about the condition until he flunked a physical in April 2007, when he was being evaluated by the Giants in connection with a possible trade.

This portion of the article (and the bold part) bring me to ask 2 questions:

1) If you have a herniated disk, wouldn't that put you in pain? (Serious question, it's never happened to me) I mean, if he was in pain, wouldn't he seek other opinions?

2) The bold part highlights the words "in writing," which leads me to believe he may have been told what was going on, and looking for a pay day on a technicality.


I'm not trying to spin this for the Broncos... In fact, it could have been a real shady deal... But I want to hear more.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Classic Shanahan. Al is a good guy and deserves better.

[Mediator12]

An intriguing legal battle has played out under the radar between the Denver Broncos and former linebacker Al Wilson.

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, Wilson is pursuing a grievance against the Broncos based on his belief that the team failed to give him appropriate medical advice and treatment after Wilson suffered a neck injury late in the 2006 season. Wilson played again in 2006 after suffering the injury.

The dispute, which recently went to a formal hearing, arose under Article XLIV of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Specifically, Section 1 requires the team to advise the player in writing of any condition that “could be significantly aggravated” by continued performance.

Wilson’s contention is that the Broncos failed to tell him in writing that he had a herniated disk in his neck. As a result, Wilson claims that he didn’t even know about the condition until he flunked a physical in April 2007, when he was being evaluated by the Giants in connection with a possible trade.

The trade fell through, and Wilson eventually was released. He had the injury repaired, and he is now pursuing a return to the NFL. He has visited with the Lions and the Browns.

Wilson claims that if he’d known about the condition, he would have had surgery in late 2006, and would have been ready for the 2007 season. Thus, he wants the base salary he would have earned from the Broncos if he had been able to play.

Several million dollars hang in the balance on this one. Stay tuned.


(from pft)


1. Funny this particular story breaks AFTER Sundquist is let go?

2. Not the first time this has happened either. A former player and Coach have filed similar complaints in the recent past.

3. It seems to be an ongoing complaint as to the timing, meaning it has "flown under the radar" until NOW.

[Northman]

This portion of the article (and the bold part) bring me to ask 2 questions:

1) If you have a herniated disk, wouldn't that put you in pain? (Serious question, it's never happened to me) I mean, if he was in pain, wouldn't he seek other opinions?

2) The bold part highlights the words "in writing," which leads me to believe he may have been told what was going on, and looking for a pay day on a technicality.


I'm not trying to spin this for the Broncos... In fact, it could have been a real shady deal... But I want to hear more.



YEP. Thats what i noticed as well. He probably was told how serious it was but his agent or lawyer probably saw a loophole and since he cant get work he is trying to **** over the organization. I hate to sound cold because he was a great player for this team but injuries happen and sometimes it ends your career. I would have to hear more on this before i slap mud on the organization. I saw too much of that with people on here about the Javon issue and yet it turned out Javon was in the wrong.

[SureShot]

Im suing the Broncos for the $180 I spent on AFCCG tix. They should have told me they were going to suck.

Seriously, if Al would have signed with the Browns would this have come out?

[cutthemdown]

only players that helped win Superbowls get good treatment after they are injured IMO. Al Wilson was a good player but he wasn't part of the big time like Rod Smith was. Hence the different treatment. Too bad IMO because Wilson was a hard fighting player, but it is what it is. I think Wilson saying it wasn't in writing leaves me to believe he is trying to find a loophole. I'm no atty but I do work with them and when you read stuff like that it sounds like it was written by a lawyer.

The whole failed to notify me in writing of the herniated disk etc. I mean maybe broncos simply told him verbally, or the doctor told wilson and Broncos figured he was informed from that. In the end Broncos will probably win this.

[cutthemdown]

now that I read all the posts I see some of you were also suspicious of the whole IN WRITING thing. Sounds to me like a paper snafu they are trying to make money off.

[brncs_fan]

Does anyone remember when we were allowed to have favorite football players? Every time I think it is ok again, stuff like this comes back around and ruins it for me. Somebody, wehther it is the Broncos or Wilson, was in the wrong and this will undountedly leave a bad taste in my mouth for either one or both by the time it is all done.

[CBF1]

Give it a day or 2 and shanny will spin it so out of control, Al Wilson will think he was at fault :thumbs:

[Punisher]

If Broncos knew the extent of the injury and hid it on purpose, that would be really bad.

If this blows up Free Agents are going to second guess Denver..This is Really really bad :oyvey:

[Popps]

I don't know how damaging it is to the franchise, but it's sad, nonetheless.

[Bronco Jamus]

Al Wilson firmly knew his condition and what was wrong with him. This is a move to get paid. I just lost respect for him.

[BroncoInferno]

It's hard being critical of the Broncos sometimes. But, they really screwed Al over IMO.

How? They tied to work out a trade, he couldn't pass a physical. End of story. That is not screwing anyone over. Football is a business. It'd be nice if you could carry former contributers on the payroll through enternity, but it doesn't work that way.

[Vegas_Bronco]

I am all for the player getting as much $ as possible - after all, they do most of the work and throw their bodies into walls everyday. Give Al some respect here...the guy might have a point and if he doesn't, it will all be known in a year or two when he tries to sue everyone else around him also.

[cutthemdown]

This isn't Shannahan's fault IMO. Football is brutal. Al Wilson should have been smart enough to not play again after laying on the field ala Mobely. I was saying right there he is done, he's finished. But nope football players don't like to quit so he came back. No one forced him. If it turns out Broncos intentional held out health information then I will change my tune. But I'm guessing Al Wilson knew what the problem was.

[Broncos_OTM]

so why did he wait a year to sue?
there is so much that goes on with this type of suit. its not all cut and clear and will probably take years. my mother in law went trough and is still going through a legal battle about injuries suffered on the job

[crazyhorse]

Another loyal Bronco getting kicked in his ass on his way out the door.

What else is new.

[cutthemdown]

Another loyal Bronco getting kicked in his ass on his way out the door.

What else is new.

You didn't hear the new news out of KC concerning one of your really good players?

[crazyhorse]

You didn't hear the new news out of KC concerning one of your really good players?

No.

What does that have to do with AW getting hosed?

[Beantown Bronco]

Another loyal Bronco getting kicked in his ass on his way out the door.

What else is new.

Actually, Al is the one doing the kicking. It's not like the Broncos are suing HIM.

[OABB]

this is stupid. why would shanny want a player with a busted neck to play? didn't he bench wilson in his last game?

and please stop trying to make a martyr out of wilson. he is damaged and can't play. what is so hard to understand about that? rod smith is too, and shanny has kept him on the team and even told him that he can take as much time as he needs to try and get back....

how come no one says how respectfull shanny is in handling this?

god, it is so ridiculous around here lately.

[55CrushEm]

Al Wilson firmly knew his condition and what was wrong with him. This is a move to get paid. I just lost respect for him.

I hate to say this, cause I always loved Al as much as the next guy.......but I agree with you.

[oubronco]

kinda sounds like he knows he can't play anymore and wants or needs MO' MONEY

[worm]

People will spin and interpret this in whichever way their bias is slanted.

[BroncoBuff]

Al is kind of on the bubble for Ring of Fame ... I'm thinking this closes that door for sure.

But if the team failed to inform him in writing, that's a breach. He probably knew all about it from verbal consultations and exams, and I'll bet he would've fought anybody who advised him - verbally or in writing - he shut it down in '06 to have neck surgery. But hey, rules are rules, and if he can prove up some legit damages, more power to him I say.

[RaiderH8r]

Al's a warrior, he went to battle every time he laced'em up. Every play, every series the guy laid it out there. Too small, too slow, too weak and all showed heart to overcome all of those criticisms and became the heart and soul of the defense. He made players around him better and knew the best person to get the job done at MLB for our club was the guy in 56. He played to win every game. He didn't bitch about new contracts and hold out and play those types of games that are so popular now and probably suffered financially for it. I know, that's his choice and it's not like these guys are being paid nickles and dimes. None the less the guy played the game right, he played it well, and he played with class. I'm going to have a real tough time busting his balls, I'm an Al Wilson supporter. I fell in love with the Broncos because of the guys suited up in orange and blue. Elway, Mecklenberg, Atwater, Dennis and Rod Smith, TD, McCaffery, Little, the list goes on and on. For me, Al Wilson is part of that list. Without these guys I don't know if I'm a Broncos fan. The guy didn't complain publically about a new contract every other year so if he wants to get paid now and the club did shirk their contractual obligations under the CBA then I don't know how upset I can get at the guy. Just being honest here.

[Mediator12]

People will spin and interpret this in whichever way their bias is slanted.

Absolutely. No one here has a clue as to what happened with Al Wilson, except DEN ran him into the ground playing him 95% of the defensive snaps for 5 years. Then, encouraged him to go back and play after the injury versus SEA. It is Clearly stated that he did NOT know about the SEVERITY of the injury until he did not pass the physical to be traded. Yes, he knew he was injured, but they lied about how severe the injury was.

As for the lawsuit, I do not see where people come off attacking Wilson for being Lied to about a medical condition that affected his career. See Trevor Pryce about that one. Pryce played in the Preseason, mind you the preseason, with back damage the staff told him to play on. Then he had to shut it down and seek OUTSIDE medical help. Missed an entire year over an avoidable PRESEASON injury. Wonder why he never caved on the salary reduction Massive contract DEN owed him and was released. Look no further than that.

So, before everyone gets worked up about AL wilson Dissing the broncos by suing them, check the facts not the emotion and orange colored glasses. Sundquist is Fired and suddenly this becomes public? Maybe Ted did not play nice as GM to all the broncos players and staff. And Maybe, just maybe, it finally caught up to his ass. Many in the media knew there were issues with Shanahan and Sundquist several years ago. It looks like some of it is becoming public knowledge now.

[55CrushEm]

No one here has a clue as to what happened with Al Wilson, except DEN ran him into the ground playing him 95% of the defensive snaps for 5 years.

And yet, I never heard of Al complaining about too much playing time. I also don't think with his intensity, Al would've wanted it any other way.

For someone who admits no one here knows the details on this issue, you seem to know exactly what the organization knew, when they knew it, how they absolutely lied to Al, etc., etc.......

[Atwater His Ass]

No matter how this turns out, it won't be good for either side.

[Northman]

Absolutely. No one here has a clue as to what happened with Al Wilson, except DEN ran him into the ground playing him 95% of the defensive snaps for 5 years. Then, encouraged him to go back and play after the injury versus SEA. It is Clearly stated that he did NOT know about the SEVERITY of the injury until he did not pass the physical to be traded. Yes, he knew he was injured, but they lied about how severe the injury was.

As for the lawsuit, I do not see where people come off attacking Wilson for being Lied to about a medical condition that affected his career. See Trevor Pryce about that one. Pryce played in the Preseason, mind you the preseason, with back damage the staff told him to play on. Then he had to shut it down and seek OUTSIDE medical help. Missed an entire year over an avoidable PRESEASON injury. Wonder why he never caved on the salary reduction Massive contract DEN owed him and was released. Look no further than that.

So, before everyone gets worked up about AL wilson Dissing the broncos by suing them, check the facts not the emotion and orange colored glasses. Sundquist is Fired and suddenly this becomes public? Maybe Ted did not play nice as GM to all the broncos players and staff. And Maybe, just maybe, it finally caught up to his ass. Many in the media knew there were issues with Shanahan and Sundquist several years ago. It looks like some of it is becoming public knowledge now.

Give me a break. Al took a stinger and he doesnt know how severe it was? Thats BS. Same thing with Lynch, he is playing with fire i dont care if he is in better shape than Al or not its still a risk and every player that takes the field after a spinal type injury is risking his career when doing so. You came out and claimed that Javon's interview was misunderstood and what happened? Thats right, he was being a discontent and a negative impact on the team. Your conspiracy theories are hilarious especially when it comes just plain common sense as a player.

[Northman]

And yet, I never heard of Al complaining about too much playing time. I also don't think with his intensity, Al would've wanted it any other way.

For someone who admits no one here knows the details on this issue, you seem to know exactly what the organization knew, when they knew it, how they absolutely lied to Al, etc., etc.......


A bit ironic isnt it? LOL

[smalltowngrll]

If a doctor tells you that you are healthy enough to play a game in which you have great passion about, would you just sit on the sidelines? Remember all the flack that everyone gave LT before they knew? If the doc says he's healthy to play, he'll play! That's Al for you! I don't know that I would even blame Shanny or the higher ups. I'd say this was a screw up by the physicians that examinied him.

And, IMO, if he'd known before hand, it sure would have been nice to have him out there on the field for 2007 (even if it were the browns or Giants). Heck, he could have had a SB ring!

I don't know about you guys, but I'm the type of person that pushes through things. And if a professional who is a doctor tells me I'm physically healthy, I'm gonna push through and do what I love to do. Not just for me, but because I know the rest of the team is counting on me!

[BroncoBuff]

If a doctor tells you that you are healthy enough to play a game in which you have great passion about, would you just sit on the sidelines? Remember all the flack that everyone gave LT before they knew? If the doc says he's healthy to play, he'll play! That's Al for you! I don't know that I would even blame Shanny or the higher ups. I'd say this was a screw up by the physicians that examined him.
But what if the doctor who tells you to play is employed by the team? I think that conflict of interest is the real crux of this. Some players believe the team doctors will say whatever the team wants them to say.


I think you're a bit overboard Med when you say "lied," and imply a sinister calculation on the teams' part, but overall I agree with your post. :thumbsup:

Players should be prepared to ALWAYS seek outside medical advice. The NFLPA should employ specialists for second opinions year 'round. Watch HBO's Real Sports ... they do these kinds of stories a lot ... past couple years they've done two on lifelong NFL injuries, one on the wives of such players crippled for life (just last month), one on the NFL team doctors' conflicts of interest, and one Armen Ketayin report that basically said anabolic steroids pose little if any health dangers. (That show's got serious cajones. If you can stomach stupid Bryant Gumbel in general, and not vomit as he's writing stupid notes on his stupid pad while talking, RealSports is a killer program).

[Northman]

If a doctor tells you that you are healthy enough to play a game in which you have great passion about, would you just sit on the sidelines? Remember all the flack that everyone gave LT before they knew? If the doc says he's healthy to play, he'll play! That's Al for you! I don't know that I would even blame Shanny or the higher ups. I'd say this was a screw up by the physicians that examinied him.

And, IMO, if he'd known before hand, it sure would have been nice to have him out there on the field for 2007 (even if it were the browns or Giants). Heck, he could have had a SB ring!

I don't know about you guys, but I'm the type of person that pushes through things. And if a professional who is a doctor tells me I'm physically healthy, I'm gonna push through and do what I love to do. Not just for me, but because I know the rest of the team is counting on me!



Exactly. But its a catch 22. If Al says he feels fine and the doctors dont see any problem with him playing than he will play because that is who Al is. But, if Al had any reservations about his injury (we've seen players in that past who were almost paralyzed from stingers) he should of gotten more opinions on his injury. Personally, knowing that doctors and trainers who work for football organizations and would clear you if you felt fine i would have gone outside and had a unbiased specialist look at me. To me, there is just no way that AL is that stupid to think that his type of injury would be something he could come back at full strength with if at all. Spinal injuries are one of the worse injuries you can have as a football player and they should never be overlooked as something minor. Its just common sense, but football players love to play the game and the love to get paid so if a player feels he is fine he may disregard a doctor's prognosis and recommendation not to play. The idea that any organization would send a player out to purposely hurt themselves or get themselves killed or paralyzed is utterly ridiculous. There's just as much responsiblity on the player as there is on the team physicians when it comes to being honest about an injury.

[Northman]

But what if the doctor who tells you to play is employed by the team? I think that conflict of interest is the real crux of this. Some players believe the team doctors will say whatever the team wants them to say.


I think you're a bit overboard Med when you say "lied," and imply a sinister calculation on the teams' part, but overall I agree with your post. :thumbsup:

Players should be prepared to ALWAYS seek outside medical advice. The NFLPA should employ specialists for second opinions year 'round. Watch HBO's Real Sports ... they do these kinds of stories a lot ... past couple years they've done two on lifelong NFL injuries, one on the wives of such players crippled for life (just last month), one on the NFL team doctors' conflicts of interest, and one Armen Ketayin report that basically said anabolic steroids pose little if any health dangers. (That show's got serious cajones. If you can stomach stupid Bryant Gumbel in general, and not vomit as he's writing stupid notes on his stupid pad while talking, RealSports is a killer program).



All players should get second opinions from an outside source when dealing with career ending injuries. Its a no brainer.

[Florida_Bronco]

Absolutely. No one here has a clue as to what happened with Al Wilson, except DEN ran him into the ground playing him 95% of the defensive snaps for 5 years. Then, encouraged him to go back and play after the injury versus SEA. It is Clearly stated that he did NOT know about the SEVERITY of the injury until he did not pass the physical to be traded. Yes, he knew he was injured, but they lied about how severe the injury was.

As for the lawsuit, I do not see where people come off attacking Wilson for being Lied to about a medical condition that affected his career. See Trevor Pryce about that one. Pryce played in the Preseason, mind you the preseason, with back damage the staff told him to play on. Then he had to shut it down and seek OUTSIDE medical help. Missed an entire year over an avoidable PRESEASON injury. Wonder why he never caved on the salary reduction Massive contract DEN owed him and was released. Look no further than that.

So, before everyone gets worked up about AL wilson Dissing the broncos by suing them, check the facts not the emotion and orange colored glasses. Sundquist is Fired and suddenly this becomes public? Maybe Ted did not play nice as GM to all the broncos players and staff. And Maybe, just maybe, it finally caught up to his ass. Many in the media knew there were issues with Shanahan and Sundquist several years ago. It looks like some of it is becoming public knowledge now.

Great post Med. Welcome back to the Mane too, I hadn't seen you around in forever. :strong:

[Mediator12]

Give me a break. Al took a stinger and he doesnt know how severe it was? Thats BS. Same thing with Lynch, he is playing with fire i dont care if he is in better shape than Al or not its still a risk and every player that takes the field after a spinal type injury is risking his career when doing so. You came out and claimed that Javon's interview was misunderstood and what happened? Thats right, he was being a discontent and a negative impact on the team. Your conspiracy theories are hilarious especially when it comes just plain common sense as a player.

You know what Anubis, I stopped posting for awhile because of this very thing. I grew tired of defending the Broncos when I repeatedly had information that was contrary to that opinion.

Javon was promised the money he wanted to make him happy and productive in 2006. Then, when he got injured DEN asked him to take a huge pay cut. They got him to play by promising him big money, and then asked him to give it back because he got hurt. That interview was a reaction to those circumstances. And guess what, Javon got paid elsewhere.

As far as common sense, this board is almost completely groupthink with orange colored glasses anymore. I love football, the business of football, and the Broncos in that order. Right now, the Broncos are ruining themselves with poor decisions IMHO, especially the way they have treated their players and staff with their former GM. You think that is not making it out there to the other teams, players, agents? Well, the combine was the last straw for me. The problem is, they view it as business as usual.

[orinjkrush]

You know what Anubis, I stopped posting for awhile because of this very thing. I grew tired of defending the Broncos when I repeatedly had information that was contrary to that opinion.

Javon was promised the money he wanted to make him happy and productive in 2006. Then, when he got injured DEN asked him to take a huge pay cut. They got him to play by promising him big money, and then asked him to give it back because he got hurt. That interview was a reaction to those circumstances. And guess what, Javon got paid elsewhere.

As far as common sense, this board is almost completely groupthink with orange colored glasses anymore. I love football, the business of football, and the Broncos in that order. Right now, the Broncos are ruining themselves with poor decisions IMHO, especially the way they have treated their players and staff with their former GM. You think that is not making it out there to the other teams, players, agents? Well, the combine was the last straw for me. The problem is, they view it as business as usual.

what about the combine, dude?

[Florida_Bronco]

You know what Anubis, I stopped posting for awhile because of this very thing. I grew tired of defending the Broncos when I repeatedly had information that was contrary to that opinion.

Javon was promised the money he wanted to make him happy and productive in 2006. Then, when he got injured DEN asked him to take a huge pay cut. They got him to play by promising him big money, and then asked him to give it back because he got hurt. That interview was a reaction to those circumstances. And guess what, Javon got paid elsewhere.

As far as common sense, this board is almost completely groupthink with orange colored glasses anymore. I love football, the business of football, and the Broncos in that order. Right now, the Broncos are ruining themselves with poor decisions IMHO, especially the way they have treated their players and staff with their former GM. You think that is not making it out there to the other teams, players, agents? Well, the combine was the last straw for me. The problem is, they view it as business as usual.

I was kinda worried that maybe you quit posting because of that. I definetly hope you continue posting, as I and many others love your contributions here. :thumbsup:

What happened at the combine? ???

[Beantown Bronco]

I love football, the business of football, and the Broncos in that order.

There's your first of many problems right there. :)

[55CrushEm]

You know what Anubis, I stopped posting for awhile because of this very thing. I grew tired of defending the Broncos when I repeatedly had information that was contrary to that opinion.

Javon was promised the money he wanted to make him happy and productive in 2006. Then, when he got injured DEN asked him to take a huge pay cut. They got him to play by promising him big money, and then asked him to give it back because he got hurt. That interview was a reaction to those circumstances. And guess what, Javon got paid elsewhere.

As far as common sense, this board is almost completely groupthink with orange colored glasses anymore. I love football, the business of football, and the Broncos in that order. Right now, the Broncos are ruining themselves with poor decisions IMHO, especially the way they have treated their players and staff with their former GM. You think that is not making it out there to the other teams, players, agents? Well, the combine was the last straw for me. The problem is, they view it as business as usual.

There's a difference between "poor" decisions and "unpopular" decisions. As I said, we all loved Big Al.....and the decision to cut him, I would argue, while unpopular, was not a "poor" decision. In terms of the "business of football".....that was a good decision.

I'm not defending all of Shanahan's decisions, mind you. But it's fair to point out, as so many have, that Shanahan is usually very fair with his players and staff. The Bates example......he was given an opportunity to stay, but opted to leave. Rod Smith.....the guy's been a cripple for 2 years, and we've given him every opportunity to rehab and stay on the team. I find it hard to believe that we would then just decide to crap all over Big Al.

And no one held a gun to Javon's head.....we asked him to take a pay cut, and he chose not to.....but as you say, that's business.....and probably a GOOD financial decision. Heck, we did the same with Lynch.....and he, unlike Javon, chose to stay.

I'll reiterate....from all I read, time and again, Shanahan is, at the very least, FAIR to most of his players and staff.

But hey.....I could be wrong.

[broncosteven]

THe answer is simple.

Shanny only knows how to deal with players that are Injured BEFORE he signs them or Drafts them.

He is lost when a healthy player acutally gets hurt after being on the team so long.

[Northman]

You know what Anubis, I stopped posting for awhile because of this very thing. I grew tired of defending the Broncos when I repeatedly had information that was contrary to that opinion.

Javon was promised the money he wanted to make him happy and productive in 2006. Then, when he got injured DEN asked him to take a huge pay cut. They got him to play by promising him big money, and then asked him to give it back because he got hurt. That interview was a reaction to those circumstances. And guess what, Javon got paid elsewhere.

As far as common sense, this board is almost completely groupthink with orange colored glasses anymore. I love football, the business of football, and the Broncos in that order. Right now, the Broncos are ruining themselves with poor decisions IMHO, especially the way they have treated their players and staff with their former GM. You think that is not making it out there to the other teams, players, agents? Well, the combine was the last straw for me. The problem is, they view it as business as usual.



Yea, Javon got paid elsewhere just like a lot players get paid elsewhere. Problem is, after Javon injured himself he became a risk based upon his PREVIOUS injury history. I would be second guessing myself as well if a player has a problem staying healthy and wants to get paid "guaranteed" money. Now, if Javon ends up sitting on the bench for the Raiders all year would you still think it was a bad move? And dont kid yourself man, Denver took a huge risk bringing Javon in here to begin with. He had a great year and then got injured again. You talk about the Broncos making bad decisions but if Denver keeps players on the roster who eat up a lot of the cap and dont play than what does that say about this franchise and its goal to win?

Cause at the end of the day thats what its about. And in order to achieve that you need the big name, big money players on the field not sitting on the bench. I can guarantee you one thing Med and that the Broncos didnt just tell Javon "yea, come here and you'll get a big payday". Not with the injury he was rebounding from. There are always clauses and stipulations based upon a players health. Furthermore, if Javon really wanted to be a Bronco he wouldnt have let out the laundry like he did. Thats just BS anyway you slice it. At the end of the day Shanahan only wants what he had when John was still here. And that is to have players who want to work together for one goal on this team. And that is most likely why he made recent comments about getting "rid" of players who dont like the "team" concept. Everything that Javon said in that interview was reflective of a guy who just didnt want to be a team player.

[Florida_Bronco]

Yea, Javon got paid elsewhere just like a lot players get paid elsewhere. Problem is, after Javon injured himself he became a risk based upon his PREVIOUS injury history. I would be second guessing myself as well if a player has a problem staying healthy and wants to get paid "guaranteed" money. Now, if Javon ends up sitting on the bench for the Raiders all year would you still think it was a bad move? And dont kid yourself man, Denver took a huge risk bringing Javon in here to begin with. He had a great year and then got injured again. You talk about the Broncos making bad decisions but if Denver keeps players on the roster who eat up a lot of the cap and dont play than what does that say about this franchise and its goal to win?

Cause at the end of the day thats what its about. And in order to achieve that you need the big name, big money players on the field not sitting on the bench. I can guarantee you one thing Med and that the Broncos didnt just tell Javon "yea, come here and you'll get a big payday". Not with the injury he was rebounding from. There are always clauses and stipulations based upon a players health. Furthermore, if Javon really wanted to be a Bronco he wouldnt have let out the laundry like he did. Thats just BS anyway you slice it. At the end of the day Shanahan only wants what he had when John was still here. And that is to have players who want to work together for one goal on this team. And that is most likely why he made recent comments about getting "rid" of players who dont like the "team" concept. Everything that Javon said in that interview was reflective of a guy who just didnt want to be a team player.

The problem with that is that his two knee injuries were not related at all. When he got hurt at the beginning of the season it was alot of swelling and pain, but no structural or ligament damage. He basically took 2 very bad shots to the knee and it caused the injury, it's not going to linger and it had nothing to do with his knee surgery in 05. Wabbit has posted many times that this is the case.

[Bronco Jamus]

His attitude was also a problem. We took a chance and lost.

[Northman]

The problem with that is that his two knee injuries were not related at all. When he got hurt at the beginning of the season it was alot of swelling and pain, but no structural or ligament damage. He basically took 2 very bad shots to the knee and it caused the injury, it's not going to linger and it had nothing to do with his knee surgery in 05. Wabbit has posted many times that this is the case.


Doesnt change the fact that he is a injury prone player which is a risk no matter how you spin it. I wouldnt of minded if he stayed a Bronco but he would have had to taken a back seat to Marshall because of his injury issues. And its perfectly undertandable that a team with that much invested into a player to be cautious when a player spends a lot of time on the sidelines. A lot of people want to hang their hats on Javon's great season before hand but the guy has spent just as much time on the sidelines than he has on the field and that doesnt bode well for any player. If Javon had shown more consistency at remaining healthy i dont think there would have been any issues regarding money. But, the fact that Javon took a shot at Brandon by proclaiming that HE be the #1 receiver instead of looking at as a TEAM concept is another issue alltogether. Now he will go to a team full of ME players and we will see how it plays out. So far their history regarding that doesnt show much.

[Northman]

His attitude was also a problem. We took a chance and lost.

Yes it was.

[Atwater His Ass]

I have to agree with med on this one.

[Bronx33]

Another loyal Bronco getting kicked in his ass on his way out the door.

What else is new.


You have zero clue what the truth is and nor do we you douche bag.

[Florida_Bronco]

Doesnt change the fact that he is a injury prone player which is a risk no matter how you spin it. I wouldnt of minded if he stayed a Bronco but he would have had to taken a back seat to Marshall because of his injury issues. And its perfectly undertandable that a team with that much invested into a player to be cautious when a player spends a lot of time on the sidelines. A lot of people want to hang their hats on Javon's great season before hand but the guy has spent just as much time on the sidelines than he has on the field and that doesnt bode well for any player. If Javon had shown more consistency at remaining healthy i dont think there would have been any issues regarding money. But, the fact that Javon took a shot at Brandon by proclaiming that HE be the #1 receiver instead of looking at as a TEAM concept is another issue alltogether. Now he will go to a team full of ME players and we will see how it plays out. So far their history regarding that doesnt show much.

I'll start off by saying what a CROCK the term "injury prone" is and how it's used by people with literally no understanding of what it means.

This is football, players get hurt. Both of the injuries Javon suffered would have had the same effect on ANY player. Then, even after it had become clear that the two injuries were not related and there was no structural damage, they still tried to stick it to him by making him take a pay cut.

[Merlin]

But what if the doctor who tells you to play is employed by the team? I think that conflict of interest is the real crux of this. Some players believe the team doctors will say whatever the team wants them to say.
Although I understand the sentiment, I'm not sure how applicable it is. Doctors are employed by the team, but they also owe a duty of care to their patients. Somehow I doubt a doctor wants to expose themselves to law suit due to negligence to take one for the team. I have no doubts they push players to the point where they are at risk for some damage, but Wilson's risk was substantial, and you would have to be pretty cynical about the medical profession and the league to assume they would risk that level of injury. Also, remember the league is also legally exposed if that type of behaviour is being tacitly condoned. That is some serious money they could be hit for, especially through a class action.

[Merlin]

Then, even after it had become clear that the two injuries were not related and there was no structural damage...
The jury is still out on this, which is why so many teams stayed clear of him in FA.

[Cito Pelon]

You know what Anubis, I stopped posting for awhile because of this very thing. I grew tired of defending the Broncos when I repeatedly had information that was contrary to that opinion.

Javon was promised the money he wanted to make him happy and productive in 2006. Then, when he got injured DEN asked him to take a huge pay cut. They got him to play by promising him big money, and then asked him to give it back because he got hurt. That interview was a reaction to those circumstances. And guess what, Javon got paid elsewhere.

As far as common sense, this board is almost completely groupthink with orange colored glasses anymore. I love football, the business of football, and the Broncos in that order. Right now, the Broncos are ruining themselves with poor decisions IMHO, especially the way they have treated their players and staff with their former GM. You think that is not making it out there to the other teams, players, agents? Well, the combine was the last straw for me. The problem is, they view it as business as usual.

Well, have a good time. I guess the Broncos are third on you list, so wth, have a good time.

[Florida_Bronco]

The jury is still out on this, which is why so many teams stayed clear of him in FA.

I don't think so Merlin. All the tests he had done on that knee say he is fine, and Wabbit has confirmed this before.

[wabbit]

Walker should be fine for the '08 season.

One thing is clear about his condition, however...he HAS suffered a major trauma to one knee and banged up the other this last season.

While it may not require something as dramatic as micro-fracture surgery at this time, there is now an injury history that the Broncos were not willing to risk millions upon millions of dollars hoping everything would 'be ok'.

His rantings didn't help, and in addition, there were behind-the-scenes clashes during the regular season that few are privy to...especially when Denver was pressuring Walker to get back on the field.

It just wasn't going to work here, no matter what condition his knees were in...or are in.

[BroncoBuff]

in addition, there were behind-the-scenes clashes during the regular season that few are privy to...especially when Denver was pressuring Walker to get back on the field.
I recall Rod Smith making statements about an anonymous player who wasn't a "team" player, or who was selfish. Some of us guessed he was talking about Javon. Do you recall those thinly veiled statements? Cause these "behind the scenes clashes" you mention remind me of that quote.

And I agree ... Javon will prolly be healthy to begin this year, he might even hurt us.

[Bronco Jamus]

least we forget the New Years eve murder of Darrent Williams. I wish Javon the best of luck. Except we he plays us.

[wabbit]

I recall Rod Smith making statements about an anonymous player who wasn't a "team" player, or who was selfish. Some of us guessed he was talking about Javon. Do you recall those thinly veiled statements? Cause these "behind the scenes clashes" you mention remind me of that quote.

And I agree ... Javon will prolly be healthy to begin this year, he might even hurt us.

Oh, I don't think there's any question, Buff, but there were more incidents...like a private specialist telling the Bronco medical staff that Walker was not yet fit to play...kinda like a note from your mother.

In addition, Walker was defiant about his role once he did return, and felt that the coaches purposefully lessened his touches in an effort to re-negotiate his contract after the season...stuff like that.

It was no-win for everyone, and in the end, Shanahan just wanted him gone.

[wabbit]

Sorry folks, I didn't intend to reprise the Javon Walker business on an Al WIlson thread.

I wish Al the best no matter who he plays for, assuming someone signs him up, but I will also say a prayer for the mans' health.

If he really is healthy enough to play, it just seems to me that teams would be lining up...including the Broncos.

There may some real liability questions in addition to concern about the mans ability to perform.

It might take a scum bucket like Al Davis to throw caution to the wind...I mean he has done it already with these ridiculous player contracts.

[Wes Mantooth]

While we bicker on this thread as to whom is right and wrong, can someone tell me why we can't get Wilson signed?:thanku:

[OABB]

While we bicker on this thread as to whom is right and wrong, can someone tell me why we can't get Wilson signed?:thanku:

sure. I think it had something to do with an injury... can't remember exactly.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/deadhorse3li.gif
(couldn't find a smily with an acerbic enough eye roll)

[rovolution]

Oh, I don't think there's any question, Buff, but there were more incidents...like a private specialist telling the Bronco medical staff that Walker was not yet fit to play...kinda like a note from your mother.

In addition, Walker was defiant about his role once he did return, and felt that the coaches purposefully lessened his touches in an effort to re-negotiate his contract after the season...stuff like that.

It was no-win for everyone, and in the end, Shanahan just wanted him gone.

hmm. interesting. This reminds me of Shanahan not starting Gus Frerotte in 2000 for the last game so that he didnt have to pay Gus a particular bonus.

Thanks again wabbit

[Northman]

I'll start off by saying what a CROCK the term "injury prone" is and how it's used by people with literally no understanding of what it means.

This is football, players get hurt. Both of the injuries Javon suffered would have had the same effect on ANY player. Then, even after it had become clear that the two injuries were not related and there was no structural damage, they still tried to stick it to him by making him take a pay cut.


Players get hurt? No **** sherlock. But obviously some get hurt more than others on more occasions which makes them injury prone. You would never make it as a GM or even a owner because your dumb ass would load your team up with high paid players who would spend 10 out of 15 years on the bench. You obviously have no understanding of the term injury prone when you would rather have a bunch of high priced Kajana Carters on this team than players who actually play. Talk about a joke. :rofl:

[Northman]

I don't think so Merlin. All the tests he had done on that knee say he is fine, and Wabbit has confirmed this before.

Im sorry, is Wabbit a doctor? Is he getting paid by the league to evaluate NFL players?

[Florida_Bronco]

Players get hurt? No **** sherlock. But obviously some get hurt more than others on more occasions which makes them injury prone. You would never make it as a GM or even a owner because your dumb ass would load your team up with high paid players who would spend 10 out of 15 years on the bench. You obviously have no understanding of the term injury prone when you would rather have a bunch of high priced Kajana Carters on this team than players who actually play. Talk about a joke. :rofl:

Did you not read what I said? There is not a player in the world that would not have been injured with the shots Javon took on his knee.

To me, and I think just about every owner and GM in the league would agree with me, an injury prone player is one who gets injured in instances where a normal player would not be injured. Obviously that does not apply to Javon if you look at the hits he took.

On the other hand, the term is thrown around (especially here) concerning any player who gets injured, especially when it's the knees. I guess some of that is understandable after what we went through with Terrell Davis and Courtney Brown, but that doesn't make it correct.

My point is, having some bad luck is NOT the same as being injury prone.

[Florida_Bronco]

Im sorry, is Wabbit a doctor? Is he getting paid by the league to evaluate NFL players?

No, but he's also got quite a bit of inside info on the Broncos, we trust him any other time, and it's not like it was a big secret that the doctors found no new structural damage and with one exception, said he should be fine.

[Wes Mantooth]

sure. I think it had something to do with an injury... can't remember exactly.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/deadhorse3li.gif
(couldn't find a smily with an acerbic enough eye roll)

sign that horse up at Mike.

[Northman]

Did you not read what I said? There is not a player in the world that would not have been injured with the shots Javon took on his knee.

To me, and I think just about every owner and GM in the league would agree with me, an injury prone player is one who gets injured in instances where a normal player would not be injured. Obviously that does not apply to Javon if you look at the hits he took.

On the other hand, the term is thrown around (especially here) concerning any player who gets injured, especially when it's the knees. I guess some of that is understandable after what we went through with Terrell Davis and Courtney Brown, but that doesn't make it correct.

My point is, having some bad luck is NOT the same as being injury prone.


Well i guess you and i disagree on how a team should spend its money regarding players who spend a lot of time being on the sideline whether its "bad luck" or not. If you think Javon is in the minority when it comes to hit at the knees than that is just inaccurate thinking. Running backs take shots to the knees, Qb's take shots at the knees etc. So Wideouts arent the only ones with those issues. It may not be Javon's fault that he gets hurt but thats the business of being an athlete.

But its also in the best interest of a organization to protect themselves when a player has been "damaged" or shows a pattern regarding injuries. Javon fits that mold. Sure, he could go on and and never get injured again and have a great career. But Denver looked at it as too much of a high risk to take that chance and decided to try and get Javon to rework his contract. Players in the past including Davis had no problem doing that because they knew that if they could get back to 100% that the team would take care of them. But in order to bring in other talent and depth you have to be able to manage the cap and to have a player eating a lot of cap space while sitting on the bench does not help the team.

Im still not entirely happy with keeping Henry on the team because i feel he is just as much a liability if not more than Javon. But the difference is Javon took it to another level by blasting team players and the organization to the media. The Broncos and Shanahan are far from perfect but i do support them in this particular case because of Javon's history of health and because he couldnt keep his business behind closed doors. I find it funny that shanny gets so much grief for bringing in players with "questionable" character yet when we dump a guy like that he gets a pass because of one good year with the organization. Sorry, dont agree with you and am quite happy he is gone.