Personnel Decisions: Never any mention of Sundquist?

[Popcorn Sutton]

So here it goes:

I see people constantly bashing Shanahan when it comes to player acquisitions, drafting, trades, contracts and various personnel decisions. I guess I'm a little confused, which is why I finally decided to put this out there. Why is there never any mention of Ted Sundquist from the 'negative' posters on this board?

Please understand that I'm not trying to make excuses for Shanahan or anybody in the front office. I'm just curious when you look at the job descriptions of a General Manager in the NFL, they are typically in charge of the personnel department. If you look at Ted Sundquist's bio on DenverBroncos.com it shows that he is in charge of the personnel department.

I hope the 'negative' posters can refrain from hijacking this thread and turning into another Shanahan bash session. I think it's a fair question to ask why the onus is ALWAYS pointed at Shanahan and there is rarely mention of the Broncos GM.



From the Broncos website:

Ted Sundquist - General Manager

Excerpt:

One of the youngest major personnel executives in the NFL when he became Denver’s general manager in 2002, Sundquist holds the responsibility of negotiating player contracts and managing the football operations department’s $150 million budget. He also oversees the Broncos’ entire player personnel department, including all pro and college operations.

In addition to supervising pro and college scouting, Sundquist is responsible for salary cap and contract analysis, video and football technologies, equipment, operations, training and medical personnel, training camp and turf management. He is charged with establishing and implementing policies and practices within those departments of football operations.

Sundquist is involved in all areas of financial planning and with respect to personnel decisions related to the signing of free agents, the selection of players in the college draft, trades, waivers and other football-related activities, including the long-term management of Denver’s salary cap.

[rovolution]

but Shanny has the thing known as the "Final Say."

For many franchises, the GM is the one with the final say.

One might criticize Shanny for having too much trust in others, ie. i dont think Simeon Rice and Sam Adams were Shanahan ideas, but rather Jim Bates ideas.

Im not a Shanny basher, big fan of the man in fact, but i think this is where Trolleride and wolf and others with similar beliefs base their criticisms.

[Tombstone RJ]

You ask a ligitmate question and the only answer I can think of is that Shanahan, ultimately, has the last say in player personell. I seriously doubt that Sundquist makes any decisions without consulting Shanahan when it comes to bringing FAs and drafting players.

[OABB]

because people are idiots.

[Beantown Bronco]

It is my understanding that, Ted, though technically the GM since 2002, really only got some of the actual GM powers (like having more say in the draft in particular) until the last few years. This seems to coincide with the marked improvement in the team's draft success.....if that is true, he gets a pass from me.

[BowlenBall]

[QUOTE=BrewCrew;1913868]
I hope the 'negative' posters can refrain from hijacking this thread and turning into another Shanahan bash session. I think it's a fair question to ask why the onus is ALWAYS pointed at Shanahan and there is rarely mention of the Broncos GM.
QUOTE]

So... people with a negative view of Mike Shanahan's drafting history are not allowed to reply to your "fair" question?

That's about as "fair and balanced" as Fox News.....

Mike Shanahan makes the picks on draft day. No one else.
Mike Shanahan has major say in personnel, including scouts.
Ergo, he gets the kudos for Terrell Davis and Brandon Marshall and the grief for Marcus Nash and Willie Middlebrooks. Fair is fair.

[montrose]

Who is this Ted Sundquist you speak of? Who? I thought Mike Shanahan was the Owner, Coach, GM, President, Offensive Coordinator, Defensive Coordinator, Film Intern, Waterboy, Grounds Keeper, Cheerleader Choreographer, PA Announcer, PR Director and Beer Man. You mean there's another person who works for the Denver Broncos besides Mike Shanahan?

I propose we start the "Find 100 people in the world who know who Ted Sundquist is" campaign. It could be a long and grueling project, fans don't know who he is, national media doesn't know, local media outside of Colorado don't know, some media within Colorado don't know, some GM's may know, other GM's may not know. Can we find 100 living human beings who know who Ted Sundquist is?

[pdvd23]

Shanny is the puppet master

[Beantown Bronco]

Why is there never any mention of Ted Sundquist from the 'negative' posters on this board?

Two possible answers:

Telluride = Ted Sundquist

Telluride = a close relative of Ted Sundquist

[Gcver2ver3]

I thought Mike Shanahan was the Owner, Coach, GM, President, Offensive Coordinator, Defensive Coordinator, Film Intern, Waterboy, Grounds Keeper, Cheerleader Choreographer, PA Announcer, PR Director and Beer Man.

He is...

[Popcorn Sutton]

So... people with a negative view of Mike Shanahan's drafting history are not allowed to reply to your "fair" question?

That's about as "fair and balanced" as Fox News.....

Mike Shanahan makes the picks on draft day. No one else.
Mike Shanahan has major say in personnel, including scouts.
Ergo, he gets the kudos for Terrell Davis and Brandon Marshall and the grief for Marcus Nash and Willie Middlebrooks. Fair is fair.


I'm not sure where you are coming from... All I said is please let's not turn it into a bash session and try to stick to the subject. Ted Sundquist's job description on the Broncos website says he is in charge of player personnel. All I ever hear is people complaining about is Shanahan and I wonder if these people realize we have a GM?

It appears you are one of those people who simply dismiss that Sundquist has anything to do with it. Do you have a role in the Broncos front office or something? How can you be so sure?

[BowlenBall]

I'm not sure where you are coming from... All I said is please let's not turn it into a bash session and try to stick to the subject. Ted Sundquist's job description on the Broncos website says he is in charge of player personnel. All I ever hear is people complaining about is Shanahan and I wonder if these people realize we have a GM?

It appears you are one of those people who simply dismiss that Sundquist has anything to do with it. Do you have a role in the Broncos front office or something? How can you be so sure?

Mike Shanahan makes the final decision on draft day. It's a matter of public record. It's in his contract, for God's sake.

That's not to say that other people don't contribute -- Shanahan's not an idiot, and I'm sure it's a team consensus when building their draft board. In fact, I'm pretty sure that Bobby Turner is allowed to pick a running back all by his lonesome every now and then (did I read that somewhere? Not sure)

Ted Sundquist also seems to be a fine GM so far -- I'm not bashing him, or trying to minimize his impact. But if Shanahan likes DeSean Jackson and Sundquist likes Ryan Clady -- prepare yourself for a 167-pound receiver....

I think Shanahan is the best game-day coach in the NFL -- I hope he's coaching here until we're all old and gray.

However, I don't like his drafting strategy or his talent evaluation (or that of his team). That's not bashing, that's a true fan looking at the 1995-2007 drafts. Pre-Sundquist for most of it, by the way....

[Popcorn Sutton]

Mike Shanahan makes the final decision on draft day. It's a matter of public record. It's in his contract, for God's sake.

That's not to say that other people don't contribute -- Shanahan's not an idiot, and I'm sure it's a team consensus when building their draft board. In fact, I'm pretty sure that Bobby Turner is allowed to pick a running back all by his lonesome every now and then (did I read that somewhere? Not sure)

Ted Sundquist also seems to be a fine GM so far -- I'm not bashing him, or trying to minimize his impact. But if Shanahan likes DeSean Jackson and Sundquist likes Ryan Clady -- prepare yourself for a 167-pound receiver....

I think Shanahan is the best game-day coach in the NFL -- I hope he's coaching here until we're all old and gray.

However, I don't like his drafting strategy or his talent evaluation (or that of his team). That's not bashing, that's a true fan looking at the 1995-2007 drafts. Pre-Sundquist for most of it, by the way....


I never said YOU were bashing...I'm not sure why you are defending yourself. The reason I started this thread was to help myself and others understand more about the Shanahan/Sundquist relationship. There is some pretty good insight on the Orangemane 'at times' and I'm hoping to tap that resource and understand if there is more to the personnel decisions than simply Shanahan and his "iron fist." My apologies if I offended you. I just want to stay on topic.

[telluride]

Two possible answers:

Telluride = Ted Sundquist

Telluride = a close relative of Ted Sundquist

Dammit, I've been outed!

But, since we're on the GM and head coach topic, I'm wondering if anyone can still accurately make the case that combining those duties in a single person can succeed in this day and age. (And yes, I still think it's accurate to say that Shanny essentially functions as both GM and head coach, no matter what title Sundquist holds.)

Back in the late 90s when the Ultimate Leader theory was in vogue, it did seem that folks like Holmgren and Shanny and others could make it work. Maybe free agency and the cap and the sheer coaching/planning work load weren't as tough as they are today. But of late it seems that the only truly successful formula is for a franchise to have two equally powerful men heading their respective areas: Pioli and Belichick; Polian and Dungy; Smith and Norv/Marty; even Accorsi/Reese and Coughlin.

[Mountain Bronco]

Bottom line is Sundquist is a GM in title only, not possision or authority. It is the same with many of the assistant head coaches. Look at Slowik, he was titled the Defensive Coordinator last year, but we all know that Bates was the actual Defensive Coordinator.

I think what people are trying to say is that because Shannahan has the ultimate say, he should be the one to take the criticism and the praise rather than sudquist. Not trying to bash shanny here, just saying he is the one ultimately responsible.

[fountelway]

we have a gm and the people that think shanny veto's every move that the scout's make during the draft and the moves sundquist makes are fooling themselves. i think some of the past drafts shanny went along with what other coaches wanted to much. i think he or sundquist even admitted this in the blog on denverbroncos.com. david gibbs thought middlebust was going to be the next champ. thats just one example i remember reading. so shanny has final say but that doesn't mean he over rides every move from the scouts who's job it is to find the talent in the draft and free agency.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Bottom line is Sundquist is a GM in title only, not position or authority.

How is it that you can, without question, say that the Broncos GM is merely a title? Are you a part of the organization? Do you have a position at the Broncos headquarters? If that is the case then why does Pat Bowlen continue to pay him like a GM? There are many situations where the head coach is the GM but the Broncos pay Shanahan and Sundquist both very well. The website states specifically that Sundquist is in charge of personnel, but he is never mentioned when people either praise or criticize the personnel decisions.

Take this offseason as an example: Shanahan did not attend the combine and he isn't attending Pro Day workouts. Instead the scouts conducted interviews and performed their "scouting" duties. This doesn't seem like the behavior of a puppet master...

I get the feeling like the "every single decision runs through Mike Shanahan" gets blown out of proportion sometimes. I realize this isn't a popular perspective to the fireshanahan.com crowd.

[Bronco Jamus]

Coach Shanahan is not the only person at Dove Valley and he doesn't make decisions in a bubble. His staff decides as a team on the team's personal direction. Now if people want to blame him for the staff he hires, that is valid. The notion that he makes every decision is ridiculous. For example, we drafted Willie Middlebrooks because of the DB coach at the time. I believe it was Gibbs.

[Bronco Jamus]

Back in the late 90s when the Ultimate Leader theory was in vogue, it did seem that folks like Holmgren and Shanny and others could make it work. Maybe free agency and the cap and the sheer coaching/planning work load weren't as tough as they are today. But of late it seems that the only truly successful formula is for a franchise to have two equally powerful men heading their respective areas: Pioli and Belichick; Polian and Dungy; Smith and Norv/Marty; even Accorsi/Reese and Coughlin.

You just listed a bunch of guys that draft/drafted at the top of every round for years and cheaters. We haven't drafted in the top ten in since the early 90's and have only been slotted there once. It also is worth mentioning that Mike Shanahan holds the same title that Dan Reeves held.

[orange crusher]

I haven't seen Pat Bowlen post here for a while. Maybe he could shed some light on this.

[Popcorn Sutton]

I didn't realize that Mr. Teddy Sundquist had a blog. He pretty much outlines the entire draft process here:

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/tedsundquist/2007/12/01/wierd-science/#more-9

Here is an excerpt from the beginning:

The “Draft” series of posts was meant to give you some insight into a few past picks that didn’t necessarily have the success or longevity that many of you might have expected. No excuses — they are what they are. However, I can assure you that as much evaluative detail, analysis and overall work went into the selection of those players as did the likes of Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Jarvis Moss or Tim Crowder.

Our system of collecting the information, utilizing the data and eventually setting the draft board is as thorough as any in the League. How do I know this? Because the many scouts and coaches that have come to the Broncos from other clubs and other systems have told me so. Your Denver Broncos will not be outmatched in this area, period. (Remember, I was an Intelligence Officer in the Air Force. Gathering and analyzing is what we did.)

That said, I promised I would touch on some of my own philosophies/feelings surrounding the draft, and it is important to understand that these are mine and mine alone. They have been incorporated into the way we implement the business of “scouting” and in the manner in which I advise our Head Coach when we’re “on the clock.”


A little further down:

What I can say is that there is a fallacy out there that Coach Shanahan is the “end all” when it comes to draft picks. That could be the farthest thing from the truth. What he has is “final say” on who we pick. This is no different than a General having “final say” over battle plans or a CEO over a major corporate marketing plan. It took a lot of work prior to getting to that point.

I guess reading this, it could be said that a draft pick is ultimately "Shanahan's decision." I'm assuming the same would hold true for free agency as well. I'm certainly willing to give credit where it is due and criticize where it's necessary. If you read through Sundquist's blog he talks about the decision making process for draft picks such as George Foster, Terry Pierce, Maurice Clarett and so on.

[chrisp]

The draft will be organised like game day - players will be slotted at a particular value, and boards will be set with players at each position. They will stick to the process and always try to get someone who is value for the pick.

That's not to say that Shanny doesn't step in and take a flyer in the first round, (Nash, Foster) but people forget about the times he took on players with question marks and it paid off (Wilson was undersized, Pryce was a headcase) I think that Shanny possibly has more say on the early rounds.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Holy crap! He's gone... The day I post this thread? WTF?

[Inkana7]

Irony.

[Popcorn Sutton]

It is my understanding that, Ted, though technically the GM since 2002, really only got some of the actual GM powers (like having more say in the draft in particular) until the last few years. This seems to coincide with the marked improvement in the team's draft success.....if that is true, he gets a pass from me.

I guess not... Yikes!

[BowlenBall]

Holy crap! He's gone... The day I post this thread? WTF?

Snicker, snicker....

Gee BrewCrew, I guess you're right, Sundquist does have a lot of.... wait a minute.... never mind.....

[Popcorn Sutton]

Snicker, snicker....

Gee BrewCrew, I guess you're right, Sundquist does have a lot of.... wait a minute.... never mind.....

I can't believe this happened today... What a coincidence!

[BowlenBall]

That is pretty weird... the most love Sundquist ever gets on this board, and then he gets whacked.

[ol number 7]

I can't believe this happened today... What a coincidence!

Kinda strange that Shanny brought him into his office and canned him. I think Mr. B should be the one doing that. Think King Carl might be getting a little uncomfortable about now. His resume looks like a dishwashers compared to Teddys. Remember Bill Harpole Director of Operations a couple years ago. He was with the team for over twenty years and in mid season was let go. I talked to a couple people in the organization about Bill and it was like bringing up a real bad subject. Everyone was like, no comment and don't ask again. The walls really do have ears at Dove Valley. Trust me.

[Kaylore]

Sundquist was standing on the talent of others around him - particularly Rick Smith. After Smith left to be GM of the Texans, many of the players we brought in have been underwhelming. I'm not sad to see him go. I want to see what the Goodman's bring us.

[summerdenver]

Shanahan was standing on the talent of others around him - particularly Rick Smith. After Smith left to be GM of the Texans, many of the players we brought in have been underwhelming. I'm not sad to see him go. I want to see what the Goodman's bring us.

you mean sunquist?

[Kaylore]

you mean sunquist?
Woops! Yes I did. Edited.

[CBF1]

Holy crap! He's gone... The day I post this thread? WTF?


I blame it all on you. I hope you are happy with yourself :thumbs:

[orinjkrush]

we will never know who was responsible for what and who took credit/blame for others. unfortunately. now it will be he said .....he said.

[Popcorn Sutton]

I blame it all on you. I hope you are happy with yourself :thumbs:

I felt horrible knowing it could be my fault... So, I banned myself from the OrangeMane for an hour this morning!

Man, it feels good to be back! :~ohyah!:

[OABB]

I felt horrible knowing it could be my fault... So, I banned myself from the OrangeMane for an hour this morning!

Man, it feels good to be back! :~ohyah!:

can you start a thread about engelberger?

[rovolution]

can you start a thread about engelberger?

LOL

[Bronco Jamus]

Sundquist was standing on the talent of others around him - particularly Rick Smith. After Smith left to be GM of the Texans, many of the players we brought in have been underwhelming. I'm not sad to see him go. I want to see what the Goodman's bring us.

I said yesterday that it would have been better to let Ted go two years ago and keep Rick Smith. Oh well.

[Kaylore]

I said yesterday that it would have been better to let Ted go two years ago and keep Rick Smith. Oh well.

You can track things to that point almost perfectly. I will say that Shanahan has to put a good product of players on the field this year or there won't be anyone left to blame. Except Slowik. Everyone around here knows he's basically a stop-gap coach anyway.

[Jason in LA]

It's pretty simply. Ted got the credit when a good move was made. Shanny got the credit when a bad move was made.

[OABB]

It's pretty simply. Ted got the credit when a good move was made. Shanny got the credit when a bad move was made.

best post here in days.