The Broncos should consider trading Elvis Dumervil soon

[montrose]

I’m sure the title of this thread caught a few eyes, but there is a method to the madness. The topic of the thread stems from my call into Sirius NFL Radio’s Moving the Chains program in which I asked a question to hosts former Chicago Bear Tim Ryan and former Jets Director of Personnel Administration Pat Kirwan. This is my favorite NFL program on TV or radio; I respect and enjoy listening to Kirwan more than any other member of the media covering pro football. Kirwan specializes in personnel issues, specifically grading talent and managing cap numbers. I called into the show to ask Kirwan how he thought the contracts that Bernard Berrian and Javon Walker received would effect the money the Broncos will need to resign Brandon Marshall (on that note, he said be ready to pay $25-30 million guaranteed).

My question spawned off into a discussion of some of the Broncos young talents and the likelihood of keeping the team together. Within the next two years, the Broncos will likely be looking to do deals with Marshall, Tony Scheffler, DJ Williams, Chris Myers, Chris Kuper, Hamza Abdullah and Karl Paymah among others. Another name in that mix is Elvis Dumervil. Kirwan suggested that the Broncos begin shopping Dumervil to see what type of value he could command. Here were some of his reasons flushed out by me:

1) It is highly unlikely the Broncos can find the COH (cash on hand) to pay out the guaranteed money to all of these players, not withstanding the cap problems that could hamper the team for years in keeping all of these players. Quite simply, they won’t be able to keep them all.

2) As an up-and-coming premier pass rusher, Dumervil stands to command a very large contract on the open market. It isn't unlikely that with the market booming, he could be looking at $30 million guaranteed.

3) While Dumervil has produced very well as a pass rusher, his body type and skill set make it highly unlikely that Dumervil will ever be a productive every-down DE. Teams can run at him with relative ease. In addition, Dumervil has been next-to-invisible in two career games against Indianapolis and four games against San Diego – two teams the Broncos will have to get through in the AFC if they want to win the Super Bowl.

4) The Broncos invested 1st and 2nd round picks in the same position in 2007 yet still have weaknesses at the DT position. It would be difficult to sink more money into the DE position while still having a weak overall D-Line. In addition, the Broncos have indicated they are hoping to make a move back to a blitzing scheme under Bob Slowik where pressure isn’t always created by the front four.

5) Dumervil’s value may never be higher. A team trading for him would have two seasons of his play at a relatively low 4th round salary before he becomes a RFA. Because of his low salary and two years remaining on the deal, he is a very tradable player. There are many pass-rush happy teams that may be open to making a deal that could greatly benefit the Broncos. Kirwan speculated the Eagles, always looking to add pass rushers, would greatly consider dealing their 1st round pick (#19 overall) for Dumervil. If the Broncos can pickup another 1st rounder, that gives them great flexibility as they could move their #12 pick for later round picks or even more picks in 2009. Moving Dumervil also opens up a great deal of COH and cap room for the future.

I think its something worth thinking about, it would put a great deal of pressure on Jarvis Moss but if a team would move a 1st rounder for Doom – you have to think about it.

[theAPAOps5]

Totally against it.

[yerner]

Whatever, Kirwan is an idiot. There's a reason he is on the radio.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Bah....I like Kirwan as well, but there is a reason he is doing radio and not a GM anymore.

[oubronco]

dumbshiit

[yerner]

There is also a reason Kirwan has that mustache. Its to hide the stretch marks.

[broncsyanks]

this is retarded. sorry. you let the other guys go before him

[vancejohnson82]

I doubt Doom's contract would be close to $30 mil guaranteed....for all the reasons you listed right after that statement

bad idea

[montrose]

I figured this would be the immediate reaction. I'm certainly not in favor of dealing Doom, but if we're offered a 1st rounder...

I doubt Doom's contract would be close to $30 mil guaranteed....for all the reasons you listed right after that statement

I thought so too. But if Tommy Kelly can pull what he did, with his injuries and age, you never know. It only takes on pass-rush needy team to make a crazy offer. And two years from now the market could be even more nuts.

[Atwater His Ass]

no thanks.

[NFLBRONCO]

A team that has needed a pass rush for a billion years and he suggests trading Doom. Not a wise idea. We will have contract issues ahead though.

[yerner]

No but seriously, alot of those other guys we may not even want next season. Doom has proven himself. Myers, Kuper, even Sheffler really hasn't quite yet. Its just premature.

[400HZ]

How come the Broncos are having cash flow problems?

[socalorado]

Yeah, no thanks. thats almost as bad as the guy who wanted to trade Champ for crying out loud! er,;D






sarcasm.....on!

[Beantown Bronco]

How come the Broncos are having cash flow problems?

They aren't. This is specifically a case of having a ridiculous draft with 4 or 5 guys drafted in the same year all coming up for their big contracts at the same exact time....you can only afford to give so many guys $20+ million in one off-season; I don't care who you are.

[montrose]

How come the Broncos are having cash flow problems?

I'm not so sure if its cash flow problems although Bowlen's statements and other reports led to believe he surely wasn't happy dishing out all the money he did last offseason.

I think its more of a realistic look that the open market is getting crazy and the Broncos are looking at needing to keep a significant portion of their key players within the next 1-2 years. Of that group at least two (Marshall, Dumervil) play positions that are getting majorly overpaid. It's my hope these guys take a bit of a hometown discount to stay. I think Scheffler will, and TE's don't make a killing right now, although the Broncos last year made Graham one of (if not the) the highest paid TEs in the league I believe. Hopefully Myers and Kuper aren't too tough as they're guards and Myers specifically may have trouble catching on with another team due to his lack of size and strength.

I think the Broncos could find the money to keep everyone happy, but I'm not sure if that's going to be conducive to building a SB team. If we're completely cap strapped with these guys, we need even more production from them or guys like Thomas, Crowder, Colbert, etc. need to play out of their minds.

[Northman]

I figured this would be the immediate reaction. I'm certainly not in favor of dealing Doom, but if we're offered a 1st rounder...



I thought so too. But if Tommy Kelly can pull what he did, with his injuries and age, you never know. It only takes on pass-rush needy team to make a crazy offer. And two years from now the market could be even more nuts.


I say no. Sure the offer is tempting but we are in the process of rebuilding that Dline so to pull the trigger this early on Doom would be a mistake. He is one of the few bright lights we have right now on that defense and to take a chance by trading him would be a setback in my opinion.

[Willynowei]

1. No ones giving us a first rounder for Dumerville.

2. Without Doom, our d-ends are as bad as our DTs which is saying something.

[Atlas]

Trade him for a 1st rounder!! then trade down and get a second this year and next year.

[BroncoFiend]

I like the idea of keeping the guys we draft. Especially great finds like Doom, but I must admit, getting a first rounder for him would be tempting...

[cmhargrove]

So, in order to get a premier pass rusher, we trade ours away, then go sign another guy for the same amount of money that might not perform as well while he is here. Brainfart!

Read the articles about the Giants building their D-line by rewarding their own draft picks instead of buying other people's.

Keep Elvis, pay the man. Draft the other DT's until we get that right too. Is he going to say trade Marshall or Scheffler as well?

Idiot.

[Atlas]

Dummerville can be replaced. I do feel it's much more important keeping the OL and Marshall than a one dimmensional pass rusher. He got buried on run plays last year.

[skmoser]

We are going to have close to $40 million in cap space in 2009....we'll have the money to sign the players...marshall will cost a crap load, but its just money and we absolutely need him....doom will too, but scheffler will be cheap along with paymah....abdullah will be gone after this season along with myers.....

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Agreed that no one is trading a 1st rounder for him and why would we want to? We have this habit of giving away our DE's that can rush the passer, why continue to do it?

[Triplelefthook]

I figured this would be the immediate reaction. I'm certainly not in favor of dealing Doom, but if we're offered a 1st rounder...



haha. you're funny

[telluride]

Within the next two years, the Broncos will likely be looking to do deals with Marshall, Tony Scheffler, DJ Williams, Chris Myers, Chris Kuper, Hamza Abdullah and Karl Paymah among others. Another name in that mix is Elvis Dumervil....Quite simply, they won’t be able to keep them all.

Nor will we want to. Of that group, only Marshall has truly proven himself to be elite. Williams and Dumervil are young, solid, talented players, the sort that the team needs to keep. Scheffler? He still mostly potential at this point. And Meyers, Kuper, Abdullah, and Paymah haven't proven a thing, and to talk about the potential chaos of their looming contracts is insanely premature.

[bap454]

There is also a reason Kirwan has that mustache. Its to hide the stretch marks.

This has got to be the funniest chet I have read in a long, long time.Hilarious!
Suddenly it doesnt suck to be at work anymore...no pun intended. I will be back shortly... Im going to track down every coworker with a stache and give him the business.:nutkick

[SureShot]

No thanks. Teams are becoming more pass happy and with the potential of our offense in the next few years I think we could get away with small pass rushing ends ala the Colts. Wait until Dumervil actually plays with some talent next to him ,he will be a monster.

[chickennob2]

Nor will we want to. Of that group, only Marshall has truly proven himself to be elite. Williams and Dumervil are young, solid, talented players, the sort that the team needs to keep. Scheffler? He still mostly potential at this point. And Meyers, Kuper, Abdullah, and Paymah haven't proven a thing, and to talk about the potential chaos of their looming contracts is insanely premature.

Scheffler is mostly potential? While battling a broken foot and being shoved back on the depth chart behind a guy we made the highest paid TE in the league, Scheffler still ended up in the top 10 in receptions for TE's, at 49. He was behind:

1. Tony Gonzalez 99
2. Jason Whitten 96
3. Kellen Winslow 82
4. Antonio Gates 75
5. Chris Cooley 66
6. Owen Daniels 63
7. Dallas Clark 58
8. Jeremy Shockey 57
9. Vernon Davis 52
10. Tony Scheffler 49

Now while all of those guys may not be household names (though the majority are), you certainly wouldn't describe any of them as "mostly potential." Now I will agree that Scheffler does have a whole lot of untapped potential, and could end up a top 3 TE in the league. So saying that he has not fulfilled his potential yet is justifiable. But saying that he hasn't proven himself is absurd.

[chickennob2]

As far as the topic of the theread. Trade Dumervil soon? No. Extend his deal by an extra 4 years or so now? Depending on the price, absolutely.

[Ratboy]

No*







*unless we can net a first round pick

[telluride]

Scheffler is mostly potential? While battling a broken foot and being shoved back on the depth chart behind a guy we made the highest paid TE in the league, Scheffler still ended up in the top 10 in receptions for TE's, at 49. He was behind:

1. Tony Gonzalez 99
2. Jason Whitten 96
3. Kellen Winslow 82
4. Antonio Gates 75
5. Chris Cooley 66
6. Owen Daniels 63
7. Dallas Clark 58
8. Jeremy Shockey 57
9. Vernon Davis 52
10. Tony Scheffler 49

Now while all of those guys may not be household names (though the majority are), you certainly wouldn't describe any of them as "mostly potential." Now I will agree that Scheffler does have a whole lot of untapped potential, and could end up a top 3 TE in the league. So saying that he has not fulfilled his potential yet is justifiable. But saying that he hasn't proven himself is absurd.

Didn't mean that to seem a slag on Scheff. Potential is a good thing. But until he manages more than 5 TDs a season, he hasn't entered the elite contract-busting status depicted by the original poster.

[elsid13]

While we're at it, meet as well trade away champ. His contract is coming up too.

[TheChamp24]

I think you guys are severely overrating Dumervil. He is a solid guy, but is nonexistent vs. good OL and gets blown up on running plays.
With that in mind, he isn't worth the contract some may be thinking he will get. I would laugh if he got that kind of a contract, because he isn't worth it IMO.

[wolf754life]

this is the problem with the homers on this board, dumervill 30 million gauranteed? LOL, get out of here then, no way you pay that to a one dimensional DE, thats how you ruin your franchise....

You keep marshall at all costs, unless he becomes a felon.
we are not trading dumervill, but there is a good chance he will get severely overpaid for his one dimensional sacks.

remember, he was a 4th round pick, and he does have limitations, now if he ever puts up 16+ sacks he will get paid, but that would require us to have a decent defensive line, some dT's. until then he will stay under that #.

[Jason in LA]

I don't like this way of thinking. They can't afford him, so trade him for a high draft pick which would be a player who is not going to be an impact anytime soon, and by the time he is an impact player (if he becomes one), they'll either have to pay him what they didn't want to pay Dumervil, or they'll have to trade him and start the whole process over again. So they wouldn't be getting anywhere.

[Kaylore]

Great post, Montrose. Actually I've been talking to SoCal on the phone about this very subject but was biting my tongue because I knew it would be unpopular. I also believe that it might make sense to trade Dumervil - after next season.

My conerns aren't that he won't play well again but more that I think after about four years he's going to wear down. If you look at Freeney, a player Dumervil is very similar to, his smaller body is having trouble keeping up against the pounding that comes from playing on the line. I suspect Dumervil will have a similar fate in a few years.

Next year we have Moss, Crowder and maybe someone else from the draft. All we need is one of those guys to emerge as a very good player and another to be able to start and Dumervil becomes a luxury over a need. If he has another year like last year then his value would shoot up and trading him make a lot of sense. It's not a popular idea because he's such a great story, great player and good person, however it might make sense in the long term interests of this franchise.

[bowtown]

I think you guys are severely overrating Dumervil. He is a solid guy, but is nonexistent vs. good OL and gets blown up on running plays.
With that in mind, he isn't worth the contract some may be thinking he will get. I would laugh if he got that kind of a contract, because he isn't worth it IMO.

How about we get a couple of DTs worth anything before you start talking about Dumervil being non existant against good OLs. The fact that Dumervil put up 12.5 sacks, much less was existant at all on that line is an impressive feat. Make no mistake that he is for real, and if we get some push from the inside you are going to see him explode.

[Northman]

I think you guys are severely overrating Dumervil. He is a solid guy, but is nonexistent vs. good OL and gets blown up on running plays.
With that in mind, he isn't worth the contract some may be thinking he will get. I would laugh if he got that kind of a contract, because he isn't worth it IMO.


He gets blown up on plays because teams go and focus on him more. He is one of most consistent pass rushers we have but with no help on the Dline he becomes the Olines target. He is light for a DL but he is definitely better than you give him credit for. Put Doom on a defense like the Giants and he would be even more successful than he is now. You could replace Doom with a guy like Freeney and he still would not be nearly as effective as he is on the Colts. We need to surround Doom with more talent and allow the young guys around him (including himself) to continue to improve.

[Bronco Billy]

Hopefully we will find a way to keep him. Though $30 mil is way too much. His numbers are great considering there's no one else commanding attention on our D line.

[Hotrod]

Is this actually a serious thread or is it a joke???

[TheReverend]

2 years is a lifetime as a fan.

Keep him. Enjoy him.

If he can't be resigned so be it. Cash in on the 3rd round compensatory pick the next year and we still gained overall.

[bowtown]

I don't think this is a terrible idea for next year, but I think it hinges on how Moss and Crowder develop this year. The last thing I want is to listen to this board talk about Elivs with the same nostalgia and misplaced regret that they talk about losing Reggie "Half-Season" Hayward and Bertrand "The Walking Injury" Berry.

[SureShot]

I think you guys are severely overrating Dumervil. He is a solid guy, but is nonexistent vs. good OL and gets blown up on running plays.
With that in mind, he isn't worth the contract some may be thinking he will get. I would laugh if he got that kind of a contract, because he isn't worth it IMO.

I just did a quick check and in 5 games vs. SD, Pitt, IND, JAC, which a think we can agree are good OLs, Doom recorded 5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, and 2 pass def.

[eddie mac]

The only 2 players out of that lot that will command top 20 money are Marshall and Dumervil and only if they continue their rich vein of performance in 2008. Scheffler/Myers/Kuper/Abdullah/Paymah aren't even starters at this point so it's laughable to think that the Broncos couldn't afford to keep all of them if they wanted to.

The only player who I think we'll have difficulty keeping is DJ and it wont be because of money either. We've ****ed that kid about nothing ordinary since he came into this league.

A player not even mentioned on the list is Champ and IMO the Broncos locked him down for his career when they brought Boss in here.

There's also a reason why the Broncos have spent $35m less in bonuses this offseason than they did last year.

[montrose]

I would love, LOVE for the Broncos to keep all of these guys, especially Doom. Doom's one of my favorites and I think, if used correctly, he could develop into a 15 sack-a year 3rd down specialist. With that, I have my concerns about keeping everyone together and it does make some level of FO sense to move him either this year or preferably next year if the Broncos can get an offer such as a 1st round pick that could presumably be parlayed into several other picks.

Hopefully I'm wrong and we're able to keep Doom at a very reasonable price, Moss and Crowder develop and we're stacked at DE. But I don't agree with sinking in huge, top 5 DE money into a guy who's never going to be a great every down player. If the right offer comes around you have to consider it. I've said it before and will say it again, the only untradable player on this team is Cutler.

[dbfan21]

There is also a reason Kirwan has that mustache. Its to hide the stretch marks.

Hilarious!

[Mountain Bronco]

Did people not watch the superbowl this year? DL and QB pressure is so important I cannot believe there is a suggestion of trading our best pass rusher. Unfortunetly SD is a good model to follow right now (lock up you young talent early for long term deals and don't over spend in FA). That is why the Broncos aren't spending stupid money on FA. So in the next couple of years they can lock up this homegrown talent.

[mattob14]

I don't like this way of thinking. They can't afford him, so trade him for a high draft pick which would be a player who is not going to be an impact anytime soon, and by the time he is an impact player (if he becomes one), they'll either have to pay him what they didn't want to pay Dumervil, or they'll have to trade him and start the whole process over again. So they wouldn't be getting anywhere.

It's not an issue of the team not being able to afford Dumervil specifically, it's just going to be hard to retain 5 or 6 talented young players at the same time. We might have the cap for it, but it's the bonus money that'll be tough to come up with. Given that, someone MAY have to go (hopefully not) and if that's the case, you try to find that one player that just may be more valuable to someone else than to us. Dumervil could be that player, for the reasons already mentioned. I'm definitely not in favor of trading Dumervil, but I think a strong argument can be made for it, especially if he nets a 1st.

[bronco militia]

There is also a reason Kirwan has that mustache. Its to hide the stretch marks.

holy crap! bwhahahaha!:spit:

[cutthemdown]

Broncos can slap the franchise tag on Brandon if they had to. I'm not worried about it.

[BowlenBall]

I don't know.... while I see the logic in the argument from the business side of things, Elvis has quickly become a core player for the Broncos, a la Al Wilson. And we all saw what happened once Al was gone...

Championship teams are more than just a business equation -- Dumerville is one of those high-character, high-effort type of players that inspire teammates. And with his little-engine-that-could physique, he's become a fan and media favorite as well.

If it comes down to it, trade Jarvis Moss (who's already making major $$$$) and give the savings to Dumerville.

[BroncoBuff]

Nor will we want to. Of that group, only Marshall has truly proven himself to be elite. Williams and Dumervil are young, solid, talented players, the sort that the team needs to keep. Scheffler? He still mostly potential at this point. And Meyers, Kuper, Abdullah, and Paymah haven't proven a thing, and to talk about the potential chaos of their looming contracts is insanely premature.
Insanely premature? No way ... if anything, montrose didn't sound the alarm loud enough for those four. We just last week tendered Myers, Abdullah and Paymah - so their contracts are definitely 'front burner' stuff. And Myers is p!ssed about his low tender, so we may lose him next season. I don't think any of the four will get offer sheets, but they might - and we might have to match deals as soon as a week from now.

I disagree on Scheffler ... he's much more than potential in my view. He and Selvin Young could both go supernova this year, they're the two I;m watching this year on offense :thumbs:



Actually I like montrose's original point. We did just draft Jarvis and Crowder and re-sign Engelberger. We''ll have to tender Elvis high next year. Good news on that is, with sacks at such a premium, somebody might sign him to a sheet, and we'd get BIG TIME draft picks. That's a better scenario that waiting for the next season to lose him for nothing ... because we probably won't have the money to pay for the sack numbers Elvis is racking up.

The NFL is all about roster/cap/salary management these days ... paying just a core of valuable stars the big dollars, and drafting very well in bursts for quick runs before the young guys go free agent.

[SureShot]

Insanely premature? No way ... if anything, montrose didn't sound the alarm loud enough for those four. We just last week tendered Myers, Abdullah and Paymah - so their contracts are definitely 'front burner' stuff. And Myers is p!ssed about his low tender, so we may lose him next season. I don't think any of the four will get offer sheets, but they might - and we might have to match deals as soon as a week from now.

I disagree on Scheffler ... he's much more than potential in my view. He and Selvin Young could both go supernova this year, they're the two I;m watching this year on offense :thumbs:



Actually I like montrose's original point. We did just draft Jarvis and Crowder and re-sign Engelberger. We''ll have to tender Elvis high next year. Good news on that is, with sacks at such a premium, somebody might sign him to a sheet, and we'd get BIG TIME draft picks. That's a better scenario that waiting for the next season to lose him for nothing ... because we probably won't have the money to pay for the sack numbers Elvis is racking up.
The NFL is all about roster/cap/salary management these days ... paying just a core of valuable stars the big dollars, and drafting very well in bursts for quick runs before the young guys go free agent.


Count me one who is all for paying for sacks. Have you guys forgotten the SB already? If you can get to the QB you can beat anyone!

[broncosteven]

Can we swing a trade of Elvis for Bert Berry or That other guy that went to the Jags?

It would be nice to hang on to a pass rusher for once.

[ColoradoDarin]

I'm all for this, and after we trade Doom we can offer up Cutler to the Lions for the #15 pick and a 2nd next year, then we can offer up Champ for a high 2nd this year, and then we can trade everyone else on the 53 man roster to the Cowboys for their 2 #1s!

Superbowl here we come!!!!

[snowtrx]

Pre-mature. Next year he will get a high tender and we will be forced to listen to any seriouse teams anyways cause they will sign him to an offer sheet. Now for this year, I would have a hard time not pulling the trigger if it meant moving up for Ellis or Dorsey. Our D-line would stand to gain a lot more than we lose.

[Ramathorn]

This is the biggest waste of time post I have ever seen. Dumerville is a beast and we need to hold on to him for a few more years. He may be small in size but he plays like a guy who is twice his size.

[Bladerunner]

I think this is a purely hypothetical thread, but it's not that outrageous. Not to the extent that people are reacting anyhow.

If (and they wouldn't even consider it) the Eagles offered us #19 and Ellis or Doresy were on the board and offered for a move up for 12 and 19, I would pull that trigger. Our needs at DT are severe. Our depth at DE is pretty good. Elvis is the best we have right now, and he's my fav bronco after champ and cutler, but I think that deal would make sense for the Broncos.

This is coming from a guy that respects the Elvis so much, he actually takes the time to learn how to spell his name!

[DarkHorse30]

This is the biggest waste of time post I have ever seen. Dumerville is a beast and we need to hold on to him for a few more years. He may be small in size but he plays like a guy who is twice his size.

Bingo.

[Punisher]

No thanks man...

[skunk]

maybe we can trade him for ladanian tomlinson

[eddie mac]

This idiotic idea is right up there with the group of mongs who wanted Champ dealt so they can sit and eat popcorn and drink beer for 2 days at the end of next month whilst the Broncos make 22 draft selections.

The thing is here, Dumervil is the only player on our current roster who has proven he can get to the QB and that with him being double-teamed every down with the **** we've had beside him in the middle for the last 2 years.

Tim Crowder and Jarvis Moss aint proven **** yet and moreso the latter. So in all likelyhood we'd send Elvis away for another pick only to realise we end up having to use that pick to replace his ass again and wait 2-3 years until the player is anywhere near as proven.

The only players that are traded in this league are the ones who either cost too much, aren't producing at their cost level, are moody ****s or have been busts so far in their career's.

Elvis doesn't and will not fit any of those categories IMO.

I cant believe some people on here. We b****ed and gurned when Shanahan didn't re-sign Reggie Hayward, the most total package DE we've had in years on this team now we want to get rid of the next guy.Ha!

[yavoon]

This idiotic idea is right up there with the group of mongs who wanted Champ dealt so they can sit and eat popcorn and drink beer for 2 days at the end of next month whilst the Broncos make 22 draft selections.

The thing is here, Dumervil is the only player on our current roster who has proven he can get to the QB and that with him being double-teamed every down with the **** we've had beside him in the middle for the last 2 years.

Tim Crowder and Jarvis Moss aint proven **** yet and moreso the latter. So in all likelyhood we'd send Elvis away for another pick only to realise we end up having to use that pick to replace his ass again and wait 2-3 years until the player is anywhere near as proven.

The only players that are traded in this league are the ones who either cost too much, aren't producing at their cost level, are moody ****s or have been busts so far in their career's.

Elvis doesn't and will not fit any of those categories IMO.

I cant believe some people on here. We b****ed and gurned when Shanahan didn't re-sign Reggie Hayward, the most total package DE we've had in years on this team now we want to get rid of the next guy.Ha!

technically I believe the reason for trading dumerville is because he will cost too much very shortly. so that would satisfy your first criteria.

jus sayin. and ya keep dumerville.

[eddie mac]

technically I believe the reason for trading dumerville is because he will cost too much very shortly. so that would satisfy your first criteria.

jus sayin. and ya keep dumerville.

I should rephrase that. I meant cost=production. At some point the Broncos are gonna have to pay a D-Line player good money.

[montrose]

This idiotic idea is right up there with the group of mongs who wanted Champ dealt so they can sit and eat popcorn and drink beer for 2 days at the end of next month whilst the Broncos make 22 draft selections.

The thing is here, Dumervil is the only player on our current roster who has proven he can get to the QB and that with him being double-teamed every down with the **** we've had beside him in the middle for the last 2 years.

Tim Crowder and Jarvis Moss aint proven **** yet and moreso the latter. So in all likelyhood we'd send Elvis away for another pick only to realise we end up having to use that pick to replace his ass again and wait 2-3 years until the player is anywhere near as proven.

The only players that are traded in this league are the ones who either cost too much, aren't producing at their cost level, are moody ****s or have been busts so far in their career's.

Elvis doesn't and will not fit any of those categories IMO.

I cant believe some people on here. We b****ed and gurned when Shanahan didn't re-sign Reggie Hayward, the most total package DE we've had in years on this team now we want to get rid of the next guy.Ha!

I had no intentions of riling people up by any means, simply wanted to pass on the thoughts from a call into an NFL guru of an idea that hadn't crossed my mind. I love Doom and hope he plays his entire career here, but I do understand the arguments for why it's worth considering trading him for great value.

Again, didn't mean to upset anyone just wanted to pass along the notes from the radio show.

[eddie mac]

I had no intentions of riling people up by any means, simply wanted to pass on the thoughts from a call into an NFL guru of an idea that hadn't crossed my mind. I love Doom and hope he plays his entire career here, but I do understand the arguments for why it's worth considering trading him for great value.

Again, didn't mean to upset anyone just wanted to pass along the notes from the radio show.

You didn't and it wasn't a go at you at all. I just believe that only franchises on the decline start considering trading their best players. The kid's had 20 sacks in his first 2 seasons. What would he be like playing beside 3 decent Defensive Linemen and god forbid someone else getting a double-team.

Let's see if we can give him that first.

[Atlas]

This idiotic idea is right up there with the group of mongs who wanted Champ dealt so they can sit and eat popcorn and drink beer for 2 days at the end of next month whilst the Broncos make 22 draft selections.

The thing is here, Dumervil is the only player on our current roster who has proven he can get to the QB and that with him being double-teamed every down with the **** we've had beside him in the middle for the last 2 years.

Tim Crowder and Jarvis Moss aint proven **** yet and moreso the latter. So in all likelyhood we'd send Elvis away for another pick only to realise we end up having to use that pick to replace his ass again and wait 2-3 years until the player is anywhere near as proven.

The only players that are traded in this league are the ones who either cost too much, aren't producing at their cost level, are moody ****s or have been busts so far in their career's.

Elvis doesn't and will not fit any of those categories IMO.

I cant believe some people on here. We b****ed and gurned when Shanahan didn't re-sign Reggie Hayward, the most total package DE we've had in years on this team now we want to get rid of the next guy.Ha!

It comes down to is Dummervilles 14 sacks worth $50 million over 5 years when he can't play the run?

[TheChamp24]

I just did a quick check and in 5 games vs. SD, Pitt, IND, JAC, which a think we can agree are good OLs, Doom recorded 5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, and 2 pass def.

Well, he got 2 sacks against Jacksonville, but I wouldn't call that a great pass protecting OL. And the dominant running game ran him over.
Pittsburgh he did awesome though.
Indy and San Diego he did nothing.

I am not suggesting trading him, but people who think he is a dominant DE, I just don't think he is THAT kind of player. Is he good? Yes, but not worth the amount of money he will probably end up getting.

[eddie mac]

It comes down to is Dummervilles 14 sacks worth $50 million over 5 years when he can't play the run?

19.5 sacks to be exact, 5 forced fumbles and 6 fumble recoveries in his 2 seasons to date. As I stated before get another quality player on the interior of that line and it'll free's up the double team and watch every bit of his game improve further.

[eddie mac]

Well, he got 2 sacks against Jacksonville, but I wouldn't call that a great pass protecting OL. And the dominant running game ran him over.
Pittsburgh he did awesome though.
Indy and San Diego he did nothing.

I am not suggesting trading him, but people who think he is a dominant DE, I just don't think he is THAT kind of player. Is he good? Yes, but not worth the amount of money he will probably end up getting.

Considering the majority of the GM's in this league share your opinion about Doom what makes you think any team in this league is going to give him the big money offer you think he'll get???

[yavoon]

Considering the majority of the GM's in this league share your opinion about Doom what makes you think any team in this league is going to give him the big money offer you think he'll get???

how is he so much worse at run defense than say freeney? there are lotsa tweeners around now, and remember its not what the 31 low offers think in free agency, its what the one highest offer thinks.

[Cito Pelon]

The team can franchise Elvis if they like. I don't see much point in trading him, even for a 1. The guy has 21 sacks in 24 games, six FF's. He's a smart high-motor player, high character, popular with his teammates, a leader. Franchise him if need be. I don't worry too much about Elvis "disappearing" against good teams. Good teams are good because they make your best players "disappear". Trading Elvis would be an instance of trying to be too smart for your own good.

[Atlas]

19.5 sacks to be exact, 5 forced fumbles and 6 fumble recoveries in his 2 seasons to date. As I stated before get another quality player on the interior of that line and it'll free's up the double team and watch every bit of his game improve further.

I was saying 14 sacks a year. Hey the guy is great against the pass. I love Elvis but do you wanna pay him $70 milion? I think DJ, Cutler, Marshall, would come first. If Denver isn't going to give him $10 million a year then they need to try to trade him. He could fetch a first round pick.

[Killericon]

Worst idea ever.

[Atlas]

Worst idea ever.

So you pay him the $10 million a year, or do you play him a year then let him go in FA?

I guess Denver could put a 1st round FA tag on him so if another team signs him Denver will get a 1st and 3rd. Of course if Denve rtags him he will be an unhappy camper.

[Bronco Yoda]

I say trade him along with that Christmas-town Cutler guy!

[Cito Pelon]

So you pay him the $10 million a year, or do you play him a year then let him go in FA?

I guess Denver could put a 1st round FA tag on him so if another team signs him Denver will get a 1st and 3rd. Of course if Denve rtags him he will be an unhappy camper.

You tag him franchise and then deal with it. It's stupid to trade your best player or let them go in FA. Portis, Pryce and Sharpe should have taught the lesson about franchising and trading.

[Atlas]

You tag him franchise and then deal with it. It's stupid to trade your best player or let them go in FA. Portis, Pryce and Sharpe should have taught the lesson about franchising and trading.

Dumerville isn't the best player. He is a one dimensional pass rusher. He is important to the team and he is good at it, but how much is he worth? That's a huge question and maybe other teams will think that he is too much a liability against the run to sign to a huge deal and Denver can resign him to a fair price. But I wouldn't overpay for him. Marshall and Cutler yes throw the bank at them. Dumerville.... Well, if the money is there go ahead , but I wouldn't sign him only to have to cut other starters for cap purposes.

[orinjkrush]

at first i thought this was the dumbest idea i ever heard. then i let it percolate. there actually might be some wisdom in getting what you can from Doom and then bidding him a fond adieu when his value/cost is highest. just goes to show in today's NFL you cant just build the best team, you have to build the best re-creating and re-generating team year after year. it means you have to buy cheap and sell dear.

[Scarface]

Kirwan is horrible on tv and was even worse when he was an actual gm. Mayock owned him on some one on one debates on NFL Network. He basically smirked at Mayock for pimping Cutler and called Cutler a Jake Plummer type QB and said he wasn't worth a 1st rd pick.

[NFLBRONCO]

He is the only guy that rushes the passer yeah lets trade him for a first and a 3rd. Then spend 20 more years trying to find a pass rusher great idea. We can't fear paying big bucks to our best players.

[SoCalBronco]

He is the only guy that rushes the passer yeah lets trade him for a first and a 3rd. Then spend 20 more years trying to find a pass rusher great idea. We can't fear paying big bucks to our best players.

The problem is that next year, Doom, Scheff, Kuper and Marshall will ALL be RFAs at the exact same time (to say nothing of the fact that DJ, Fox, Paymah and Myers will be UFAs). It's going to be very, very difficult to hold everyone. You might be able to hold the 4 RFAs for their RFA year (although, I suspect with at least a couple of them, teams might gladly pay the higher compensation for special tenders and sock us with a poison pill contract...like if he plays more than 2 games in CO in any given season, the whole deal becomes guaranteed). Even if they don't, between next summer and the summer after, it will be difficult to keep even 5 of those 8 players.

[NFLBRONCO]

The problem is that next year, Doom, Scheff, Kuper and Marshall will ALL be RFAs at the exact same time (to say nothing of the fact that DJ, Fox, Paymah and Myers will be UFAs). It's going to be very, very difficult to hold everyone. You might be able to hold the 4 RFAs for their RFA year (although, I suspect with at least a couple of them, teams might gladly pay the higher compensation for special tenders and sock us with a poison pill contract...like if he plays more than 2 games in CO in any given season, the whole deal becomes guaranteed). Even if they don't, between next summer and the summer after, it will be difficult to keep even 5 of those 8 players.

Well since you put that way YIKES this is scary. We haven't been too eager to pay up. I think DJ is a goner and I expect Foxy to be moved. This will be interesting what Denver will do. Yes I rather trade guys then just cut them all the time. This time next year will be interesting.

[eddie mac]

The problem is that next year, Doom, Scheff, Kuper and Marshall will ALL be RFAs at the exact same time (to say nothing of the fact that DJ, Fox, Paymah and Myers will be UFAs). It's going to be very, very difficult to hold everyone. You might be able to hold the 4 RFAs for their RFA year (although, I suspect with at least a couple of them, teams might gladly pay the higher compensation for special tenders and sock us with a poison pill contract...like if he plays more than 2 games in CO in any given season, the whole deal becomes guaranteed). Even if they don't, between next summer and the summer after, it will be difficult to keep even 5 of those 8 players.

Why not SoCal. At present Denver are approx $40m under an estimated $123m cap for 2009 and moreso have only $10m hitting in bonuses in 2009.

To put that into perspective the Broncos 2007 bonus figure was $73m. The Broncos are currently gearing up for these moves hence the mediocre spending in FA this year. Not giving into players ludicrous demands-Elam $3m a year, Lynch $3.5m a year, Walker $7.5m this year and turning players like Henry's contract into an incentive layden one.

Personally I couldn't give a crap if Foxworth and Myers aren't here in 2009 because they are nothing more than average players and shouldn't get anything more than back-up $$.

[Atlas]

Well since you put that way YIKES this is scary. We haven't been too eager to pay up. I think DJ is a goner and I expect Foxy to be moved. This will be interesting what Denver will do. Yes I rather trade guys then just cut them all the time. This time next year will be interesting.

Well, that is what we have been talking about. Welcome to the disscussion.

[eddie mac]

Well since you put that way YIKES this is scary. We haven't been too eager to pay up. I think DJ is a goner and I expect Foxy to be moved. This will be interesting what Denver will do. Yes I rather trade guys then just cut them all the time. This time next year will be interesting.


We've been pretty eager to pay other teams free agents in the past or players we've obtained via trade. Bly $16m, Walker $10m, Henry $12m, (albeit we renegotiated this deal), Graham $15m. That's $53m in bonuses paid in the first 2 years of those contracts. It's time that kind of money was used on our own players and I do believe that's the format we're starting to work on starting this offseason.

[elsid13]

When does Shanahan let his stars go that perform? I have strange feeling that you will see the guys together for awhile unless something really strange happens.

[fontaine]

The problem is that next year, Doom, Scheff, Kuper and Marshall will ALL be RFAs at the exact same time (to say nothing of the fact that DJ, Fox, Paymah and Myers will be UFAs). It's going to be very, very difficult to hold everyone. You might be able to hold the 4 RFAs for their RFA year (although, I suspect with at least a couple of them, teams might gladly pay the higher compensation for special tenders and sock us with a poison pill contract...like if he plays more than 2 games in CO in any given season, the whole deal becomes guaranteed). Even if they don't, between next summer and the summer after, it will be difficult to keep even 5 of those 8 players.

Not so fast.

By all indications we're going to go into the '08 season with a chunk of cap room. We are going to use that cap room because it's not credited towards the '09 season and expires. We'll use that available cap room to sign two guys who I'll suspect be Kuper and Myers. They won't command big dollar deals.

Ditto with Scheffler, Paymah who will be easy enough to sign as well. That leaves us with Marshall, Doom and DJ and of those guys only DJ is a threat since he'll be a FA but we could always franchise him.

I don't think there's any reason for panic. Bowlen has clearly emphasized building through the draft and the team will be committed to get these guys signed.

[SureShot]

Why not SoCal. At present Denver are approx $40m under an estimated $123m cap for 2009 and moreso have only $10m hitting in bonuses in 2009.

To put that into perspective the Broncos 2007 bonus figure was $73m. The Broncos are currently gearing up for these moves hence the mediocre spending in FA this year. Not giving into players ludicrous demands-Elam $3m a year, Lynch $3.5m a year, Walker $7.5m this year and turning players like Henry's contract into an incentive layden one.

Personally I couldn't give a crap if Foxworth and Myers aren't here in 2009 because they are nothing more than average players and shouldn't get anything more than back-up $$.


Thanks Eddie I was waiting for your post. It looks doable plus, I'm sure there will be a home town discount or two. Dumervil will likely be one that does.

[eddie mac]

Not so fast.

By all indications we're going to go into the '08 season with a chunk of cap room. We are going to use that cap room because it's not credited towards the '09 season and expires. We'll use that available cap room to sign two guys who I'll suspect be Kuper and Myers. They won't command big dollar deals.

Ditto with Scheffler, Paymah who will be easy enough to sign as well. That leaves us with Marshall, Doom and DJ and of those guys only DJ is a threat since he'll be a FA but we could always franchise him.

I don't think there's any reason for panic. Bowlen has clearly emphasized building through the draft and the team will be committed to get these guys signed.

In all honesty Fontaine we dont have a terrible lot of room at present. By my count we've slightly less than $12m left and that does not include Boss' estimated cap hit for 2008. Also take away approx $5m in space for the rookie pool. Plenty of cash left though compared to last year's outlay.

[Cito Pelon]

Great post, Montrose. Actually I've been talking to SoCal on the phone about this very subject but was biting my tongue because I knew it would be unpopular. I also believe that it might make sense to trade Dumervil - after next season.

My conerns aren't that he won't play well again but more that I think after about four years he's going to wear down. If you look at Freeney, a player Dumervil is very similar to, his smaller body is having trouble keeping up against the pounding that comes from playing on the line. I suspect Dumervil will have a similar fate in a few years.

Next year we have Moss, Crowder and maybe someone else from the draft. All we need is one of those guys to emerge as a very good player and another to be able to start and Dumervil becomes a luxury over a need. If he has another year like last year then his value would shoot up and trading him make a lot of sense. It's not a popular idea because he's such a great story, great player and good person, however it might make sense in the long term interests of this franchise.

Nah. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.