Black Hole Math

[rugbythug]

Javon Walker signed a 5 year 40 Million Dollar Contract.
The Broncos Paid approximately 10 million of the Contract.
For a 7th round pick the Faiders could have traded for "Javon"

Instead they sign him to a 6 year 55 million dollar contract.

In Oakland a 7th round pick is now worth 25 million dollars.

[Bronx33]

It has to be some kind of old school al davis trick.

[FireFly]

Javon Walker signed a 5 year 40 Million Dollar Contract.
The Broncos Paid approximately 10 million of the Contract.
For a 7th round pick the Faiders could have traded for "Javon"

Instead they sign him to a 6 year 55 million dollar contract.

In Oakland a 7th round pick is now worth 25 million dollars.

In theory, sure.

In reality, there is NO way the Broncos would have traded him to the Raiders; not for a 7th anyhow. Let's not forget, if he had have taken a pay cut the Broncos would have more than likely kept him. There is no way they are happy that he is now a division rival.

Sure, assuming everything stays the same with the cap in the years to come (which it won't), the Walker contract is horrible for the Raider organization, but in terms of on the field this year: The Raiders are a better team with a healthy Walker on the field.

And yes, there's a good chance that he won't be healthy and on the field, but there is no way that Shanny would take that risk for a 7th round pick.

[RMT]

i'm looking forward to javon coming to denver as a raider and the fans letting him have it before, during, and after the game.

[Vegas_Bronco]

i'm looking forward to javon coming to denver as a raider and the fans letting him have it before, during, and after the game.

I'm sure Champ Bailey is too! :thumbs:

[Vegas_Bronco]

It has to be some kind of old school al davis trick.

Wait, he did hand in that playbook, right?

[thumpc]

Shanny will email him the gameplans.

[Raider Bill]

the Walker contract is horrible for the Raider organization,

No it's not.. after 1 season it would leave a 5 million dollar cap hit, able to be spread out into 2 2.5 million dollar hits.... that's less than 2% of the cap.

[Popcorn Sutton]

No it's not.. after 1 season it would leave a 5 million dollar cap hit, able to be spread out into 2 2.5 million dollar hits.... that's less than 2% of the cap.

The signing bonus has to be counted against the cap Raider Bill. If they paid the entire signing bonus this year then he could theoretically be cut next season for his salary which would be $5 million but they would have already paid him $11 million this season. However, I really doubt they paid the entire signing bonus to Walker up front. With all the money the Raiders are forking over this offseason I'm sure they opted to spread the signing bonus throughout the deal which would mean if/when he gets cut the signing bonus will immediately accelerate to the cap.

My point is, it's not simply as easy as saying he would be a $5 million cap hit over two years (if designated a post June 1 cut). You should trust Broncos fans when it comes to dead cap money... We have a lot of experience! :thumbsup:

[Rashomon]

No it's not.. after 1 season it would leave a 5 million dollar cap hit, able to be spread out into 2 2.5 million dollar hits.... that's less than 2% of the cap.

It is bad for the Raiders because it shows how much they overpaid for Walker. If anyone else was willing to pay that kind of money for Walker, they could have traded for him. No one else did because they didn't think anyone would be STUPID enough to pay a twice injured player coming off a poor season more than the contract he just got cut for.

[Old Dude]

I'm really surprised at the price tag.

[broncosteven]

Javon Walker signed a 5 year 40 Million Dollar Contract.
The Broncos Paid approximately 10 million of the Contract.
For a 7th round pick the Faiders could have traded for "Javon"

Instead they sign him to a 6 year 55 million dollar contract.

In Oakland a 7th round pick is now worth 25 million dollars.

I thought you were going to explain String Theory and Relativity.

Damn!

[Popcorn Sutton]

I'm really surprised at the price tag.

My guess is it's the only reason he went to Oakland. No way Javon signs for $16 million over the first 2 years anywhere else. At least not any contenders who manage their money/cap very well. He not only has the major injury strike against him but he's managed to "me first" his way out of Green Bay and Denver.

[Raider Bill]

It is bad for the Raiders because it shows how much they overpaid for Walker. If anyone else was willing to pay that kind of money for Walker, they could have traded for him. No one else did because they didn't think anyone would be STUPID enough to pay a twice injured player coming off a poor season more than the contract he just got cut for.

You kinda contradict your own logic... why in Heaven's name would you trade for a guy that you knew was getting cut? And then pay him a big contract, when you could just wait and get him for nothing.

[Raider Bill]

The signing bonus has to be counted against the cap Raider Bill.

Agreed.

If they paid the entire signing bonus this year then he could theoretically be cut next season for his salary which would be $5 million but they would have already paid him $11 million this season.

Agreed. But I don't care, like I said I don't have a dime in it.


However, I really doubt they paid the entire signing bonus to Walker up front.

This is where you're going off course.


It doesn't matter when it's paid... it could be paid in 2050, a guaranteed payment to a player is treated as a signing bonus and amortized over the duration of the contract.


With all the money the Raiders are forking over this offseason I'm sure they opted to spread the signing bonus throughout the deal which would mean if/when he gets cut the signing bonus will immediately accelerate to the cap.

The remaining unamortized portion would yes.



My point is, it's not simply as easy as saying he would be a $5 million cap hit over two years (if designated a post June 1 cut).

Yes it is... in fact since he's a vested veteran that June 1 thing doesnt apply any more. They changed the rule to give older vets a chance to catch on with another team.


You should trust Broncos fans when it comes to dead cap money... We have a lot of experience!


Well you're doing it wrong, maybe that's the Mastermind's problem .

[Beantown Bronco]

.. why in Heaven's name would you trade for a guy that you knew was getting cut?.

Easy. Two reasons:

1. When his existing contract that you pick up in the trade is less than the contract you would sign him for in free agency.

2. By trading for a player, you eliminate the uncertainty of free agency, where any team can outbid you and sign him out from under you before he even visits the organization.

[Raider Bill]

1. He wasn't happy with his existing deal.


2. ****it it's not my money. .

[bronco militia]

1. He wasn't happy with his existing deal.


HUH?

he liked it so much he refused to renegotiate it with the broncos

[Raider Bill]

Why would you want to be on the hook for his 5.4 million dollar option bonus in February.. For 600 K more we locked him up for 3 years reasonably and if it doesnt work out after year 1, the net impact of cutting him is zero dollars and zero cents. (5 million unamortized bonus/5 million base salary) Not only that, we'd lose a draft pick in the process.

I'd rather have the draft pick than the 600K, especially since it's not my money.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Yes it is... in fact since he's a vested veteran that June 1 thing doesnt apply any more. They changed the rule to give older vets a chance to catch on with another team.

Ok, given he received a $6 million/signing bonus the cap hit next season if Walker was cut would be in the neighborhood of $5 million. The reason I say this is $6 million prorated over the contract is approx $1 million a year. If the Raiders cut Walker next season the remaining portion would be ~ $5 million. The Raiders could opt to designate a post June 1 cut to spread it over the next 2 years. BTW, I don't believe it's a 50/50 split. It certainly didn't work out that way with Al Wilson. It seemed more like 35-40% last season and the rest this year.

When it comes down to it, I guess you could say the Raiders leveraged $11 milliion to see if Javon pans out. The $5 million salary this season and $6 million signing bonus. Unless of course, slimy Al were to cut him before this season even started??? Who knows? Take a $6 million cap hit for a player who never plays a down for your team.

BTW, you are correct. A signing bonus is automatically prorated over the deal. There are other ways to front load a contract but a "signing bonus" is prorated. I mispoke.

[broncofan2438]

i'm looking forward to javon coming to denver as a raider and the fans letting him have it before, during, and after the game.

For sure, and I am going to be there to give it to him

[bronco militia]

Why would you want to be on the hook for his 5.4 million dollar option bonus in February.. For 600 K more we locked him up for 3 years reasonably and if it doesnt work out after year 1, the net impact of cutting him is zero dollars and zero cents. (5 million unamortized bonus/5 million base salary) Not only that, we'd lose a draft pick in the process.

I'd rather have the draft pick than the 600K, especially since it's not my money.

he never complained about his contract and was willing to stay if he didn't have to take a pay cut/renegotiate his deal.

There's no doubt, Walker got a better deal. Good for him, but your team overpaid for no reason.

[Raider Bill]

Now that I think about it.. .I do have that wrong.

1 million would accelerate into that year and 4 million would get pushed forward.

[Raider Bill]

Still, it's no different than TO.. noone is going to give you anything for a guy who doesn't want to be there when you're saddled with a large roster bonus.

This just sounds like sour grapes because you didn't get anything for him.

Like I said, all things being equal, which they are.. I'd rather have my draft pick than the 600K

[rugbythug]

Still, it's no different than TO.. noone is going to give you anything for a guy who doesn't want to be there when you're saddled with a large roster bonus.

This just sounds like sour grapes because you didn't get anything for him.

Like I said, all things being equal, which they are.. I'd rather have my draft pick than the 600K

Your Not counting his base salary in the 600 K. We weren't giving him 5 mill this year.

Your saying that this contract is essentially a 1 year 11 million dollar deal. yeah that sounds like a good idea. Give him TO money after a season of 27 catches. Great thinking. I am sure you you were within 8 million of the next highest offer.

[Raider Bill]

Walker's cap figure for this year would have been over 7 million for Denver.

It's 6 million for us.

Compare it however you want.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Walker's cap figure for this year would have been over 7 million for Denver.

It's 6 million for us.

Compare it however you want.

I don't think people are comparing the Raiders contract to Denver. Denver cut him loose, game over. The comparison is what the Raiders paid Walker and other free agents (coming off major knee injuries) compared to what the rest of the league would have paid.

The Broncos asked him to take a pay cut because they felt he wasn't worth the $7 million this year. The Raiders turned around and virtually guaranteed him $11 million. It's a bit shocking.

"The final one came Tuesday night, when the Raiders and Walker's agent, Kennard McGuire, agreed to a deal that instantly became the talk of the league as the single-most stunning free-agent contract this off-season -- maybe ever." Link (http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=C19041DAB85E862ADCCCCF56DAEB4859? id=09000d5d80709c14&template=without-video&confirm=true)

[Popcorn Sutton]

Doh! It's much worse than originally throught.... It will be interesting to see what Raider Bill thinks about this development.

Javon Walker received an $11 million signing bonus and will earn $20 million in the first two years of his Raiders contract. He'll earn $27 million in the first three, and $35 million in the first four years.

Link (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Home_NFL.aspx?rwr=1)

Highly incorrect info on Walker's contract came from the Raiders Wednesday that indicated Walker ultimately signed a two-year deal. They have confirmed the error. This setup will make Walker extremely expensive to cut early in the deal and makes it likely he'll be a Raider through 2010 if he's remotely healthy.

[Atwater His Ass]

lol

[Bronx33]

Still, it's no different than TO.. noone is going to give you anything for a guy who doesn't want to be there when you're saddled with a large roster bonus.

This just sounds like sour grapes because you didn't get anything for him.

Like I said, all things being equal, which they are.. I'd rather have my draft pick than the 600K


I will explain this one last time, javon (wanted all the money) when his longevity is a huge question mark (and the broncos medical staff knows this) that's why the contract restructuring issue came into play (which he refused) so basically he wanted the bronco to give him a huge contract when we don't know if he can even finish the season. He was offered an incentive laced contract to make back all the money he wanted to begin with (which he refused) geee i wonder why?

1- He doesn't have any faith in his longevity or his knee

2- He and his agent knew he would get the payday from somebody else.

3- Raiders took it (hook line and sinker)

4- Enjoy watching him sit on the bench around week 5 :thumbsup:

5- Whos the raiders doctor? Dr Nick Rivera?

http://www.24-7simpsons.com/dr.nick_pic1.jpg