I Shanny going off the deep end?

[crazyhorse]

In recent years it seems that Planny is more interested in trading picks and players than actually building a winner. He's always looking for some kind of dynamic move either in FA or the draft.

Last year, he traded 9 picks for 4 players. Before that it was the Browncos, the Detroit trade, the Washington trade.

I'm not go as far as to say he has never come out good on a deal he's made. But now he looks as if he has come to the conclusion he's more interested in wheeling and dealing to trade than to just build a team the conventional way.

He's really starting to take a beating on these trades, but seems content to put his carreer on the line by continuing to push for trades.

What is your opinion on the matter?

[Popcorn Sutton]

In recent years it seems that Planny is more interested in trading picks and players than actually building a winner. He's always looking for some kind of dynamic move either in FA or the draft.

Last year, he traded 9 picks for 4 players. Before that it was the Browncos, the Detroit trade, the Washington trade.

I'm not go as far as to say he has never come out good on a deal he's made. But now he looks as if he has come to the conclusion he's more interested in wheeling and dealing to trade than to just build a team the conventional way.

He's really starting to take a beating on these trades, but seems content to put his carreer on the line by continuing to push for trades.

What is your opinion on the matter?


My opinion is that there is more to the equation than simply "Shanny."

[Killericon]

In recent years it seems that Planny is more interested in trading picks and players than actually building a winner.

This board is really starting to piss me off.
EDIT::

Oh. I didn't even realize it was crazyhorse posting. Oops. Hey, bud. You got me, hook, line, and sinker.

[backup qb]

How has he gotten taken on trades? He got the better end of the Champ deal, traded benchwarmers for Bly, got a 3 and a 4 for Lelie, traded up to get Cutler, etc. Used a package of picks for Thomas(1st rd talent) who the book is still out on. Sounds pretty good to me.

[crazyhorse]

How has he gotten taken on trades? He got the better end of the Champ deal, traded benchwarmers for Bly, got a 3 and a 4 for Lelie, traded up to get Cutler, etc. Used a package of picks for Thomas(1st rd talent) who the book is still out on. Sounds pretty good to me.


Champs was a good deal. Bly (IMO) is over rated a bit. But that was probably a good trade. Other than that, he's had his butt handed to him.

Filling 4 position with 9 draft picks
The Browncos

[crazyhorse]

This board is really starting to piss me off.
EDIT::

Oh. I didn't even realize it was crazyhorse posting. Oops. Hey, bud. You got me, hook, line, and sinker.

This is a legit topic. Just because I posted it, doesn't make it a non issue.

I'm not trying to "hook you". I'm dead serious.

[MileHighMania]

Shanahan has swung and missed a number of times, but I think he hits more often than not. The flipside is having a coach with no balls to take a chance. If Shanahan fails, then he cuts bait and attempts something else.

Is he a madman at times? Possibly, but 2007 was only the 2nd losing season of his tenure... dating back to 1995.

Shanahan puts a winning product on the field and continues to try and build a competitive winner. He is not always dead on accurate, but he's earned the right to screw up in my eyes.

There's something to be said for consistency at the HC position... look at the # of coaches that have been hired and fired in Oakland, SD, KC and Dallas for instance since 1995.

I figure Shanahan has another 2-3 years in Denver and then he'll move on under his own terms and that is fine with me. It has been a hell of a ride and continues to be one.

Everyone says "Shanahan hasn't won a title since Elway retired". Well, Denver didn't win a title until Shanahan was hired... so, it's a give and take and right now I'll take what they put out there. I like the upside of this team.

[crazyhorse]

Shanahan has swung and missed a number of times, but I think he hits more often than not. The flipside is having a coach with no balls to take a chance. If Shanahan fails, then he cuts bait and attempts something else.

Is he a madman at times? Possibly, but 2007 was only the 2nd losing season of his tenure... dating back to 1995.

Shanahan puts a winning product on the field and continues to try and build a competitive winner. He is not always dead on accurate, but he's earned the right to screw up in my eyes.

There's something to be said for consistency at the HC position... look at the # of coaches that have been hired and fired in Oakland, SD, KC and Dallas for instance since 1995.

I figure Shanahan has another 2-3 years in Denver and then he'll move on under his own terms and that is fine with me. It has been a hell of a ride and continues to be one.

Everyone says "Shanahan hasn't won a title since Elway retired". Well, Denver didn't win a title until Shanahan was hired... so, it's a give and take and right now I'll take what they put out there. I like the upside of this team.

While I can appreciate your loyalty, I wasn't questioning his tenure as a HC. I was addressing his most recent attraction for the "big trade". It seems since the Bailey trade, he is more interested in trading for players than years past.

So much so that it looks to be catching up to him.

Do you feel the same way? Or not?

[rugbythug]

Shanny Trades from memory so may be a little off.
Portis=Champ+2nd
4th=Warren
Droughns=EE and Micheal Myers
2nd=Javon
Lelie=3,4
Trade up 1,3,6, =Moss
3,6=Thomas
warren=5th

That seems to me like a lot of really good trades. The only bad ones would be Warren for a 5th. And Javon. Although Javon was a great addition at the time.

[Killericon]

This is a legit topic. Just because I posted it, doesn't make it a non issue.

I'm not trying to "hook you". I'm dead serious.

Oh, silly crazyhorse. "I'm dead serious."

Classic.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Champs was a good deal. Bly (IMO) is over rated a bit. But that was probably a good trade. Other than that, he's had his butt handed to him.

Filling 4 position with 9 draft picks
The Browncos

The Bly trade was overrated.. Sure, for a Chiefs homer. You realize Tatum Bell and George Foster are "one and done" in Detroit. I'm not sure how you are figuring this but a starting cornerback for two players who are no longer with the Lions seems like a decent trade. :ouwknow:

As far as the picks are concerned the later rounds are a crapshoot. I hardly think trading 6th and 7th round draft picks could be considered going off the deep end. There was the Jarvis Moss trade for the 3rd and 6th but you failed to note that the Broncos had an extra 3rd and a 4th they basically stole from Washington.

I just posted a thread talking about how the Broncos have decided to take a back seat in FA acquisitions and major trades and you say Shanahan is going off the deep end?

Could we at least get one thing straight? Shanahan does not single handedly make trades and FA acquisitions. There is a GM.

I realize you get a kick out of trying to rile up Broncos fans but you're reaching here.

[bpc]

My thought is that through it all, what has worked, what has not, Shanahan's product is still consistently better than what the Chiefs put out.

[crazyhorse]

My thought is that through it all, what has worked, what has not, Shanahan's product is still consistently better than what the Chiefs put out.


If that's all you're looking for, then you must be happy with the current state of the Broncos.

Congrats.

[crazyhorse]

The Bly trade was overrated.. Sure, for a Chiefs homer. You realize Tatum Bell and George Foster are "one and done" in Detroit. I'm not sure how you are figuring this but a starting cornerback for two players who are no longer with the Lions seems like a decent trade. :ouwknow:

As far as the picks are concerned the later rounds are a crapshoot. I hardly think trading 6th and 7th round draft picks could be considered going off the deep end. There was the Jarvis Moss trade for the 3rd and 6th but you failed to note that the Broncos had an extra 3rd and a 4th they basically stole from Washington.

I just posted a thread talking about how the Broncos have decided to take a back seat in FA acquisitions and major trades and you say Shanahan is going off the deep end?

Could we at least get one thing straight? Shanahan does not single handedly make trades and FA acquisitions. There is a GM.

I realize you get a kick out of trying to rile up Broncos fans but you're reaching here.

I said the trade for Bly was okay, but he's over rated as a player. Nothing wrong with that statement.

Riling up Bronco fans is easy. All I have to do is post. The content is not important.

Shanny is pulling the trigger on these trades. No doubt in my mind about that.

[Popcorn Sutton]

I said the trade for Bly was okay, but he's over rated as a player. Nothing wrong with that statement.

Riling up Bronco fans is easy. All I have to do is post. The content is not important.

Shanny is pulling the trigger on these trades. No doubt in my mind about that.

Yeah, you really have your finger on the pulse of the team... LOL :bs:

Ted Sundquist just sits on his thumb and collects his multi-million dollar salary.

This thread is comical.

crazyhorse: He's really starting to take a beating on these trades...

Really? Interesting... You've got it all figured out.

I guess it's what you would expect from a Chiefs fan on a Broncos forum.

[crazyhorse]

Shanny Trades from memory so may be a little off.
Portis=Champ+2nd
4th=Warren
Droughns=EE and Micheal Myers
2nd=Javon
Lelie=3,4
Trade up 1,3,6, =Moss
3,6=Thomas
warren=5th

That seems to me like a lot of really good trades. The only bad ones would be Warren for a 5th. And Javon. Although Javon was a great addition at the time.

If these are all good trades for you, then you must not feel that the Broncos are paying any price for thier new inclanation to trade all the time.

The Broncos now are not as good a team as they were before the start of his trading spree. Anyone should be able to see that.

[crazyhorse]

Yeah, you really have your finger on the pulse of the team... LOL :bs:

Ted Sundquist just sits on his thumb and collects his multi-million dollar salary.

This thread is comical.

crazyhorse: He's really starting to take a beating on these trades...

Really? Interesting... You've got it all figured out.

I guess it's what you would expect from a Chiefs fan on a Broncos forum.

Now you're going off the deep end.

[Inkana7]

He's CRAZY!!!1111 OMG H4X!!

[Kaylore]

More trolling from perhaps the most dim-witted person on the board. We haven't made a single trade this year and he asks if Shanahan is going off the deep end with trades. Clumsytroll was that stupid kid in the back of the class that annoyed everyone by asking moronic questions. ::)

[orinjkrush]

if you have penultimate self confidence in your mastermindedness,
you are going to try to use it. as opposed to letting the dice roll (as in the draft).

[bpc]

If that's all you're looking for, then you must be happy with the current state of the Broncos.

Congrats.

It's more than enough to shut up your stupid trolling.

Does it bother you that Carl Peterson will continue to run your product into the ground? That our worst product in the past 9 years still swept you this season?

[s0phr0syne]

I bet that Shanahan wouldn't mess up his own thread title.

[Northman]

In recent years it seems that Planny is more interested in trading picks and players than actually building a winner. He's always looking for some kind of dynamic move either in FA or the draft.

Last year, he traded 9 picks for 4 players. Before that it was the Browncos, the Detroit trade, the Washington trade.

I'm not go as far as to say he has never come out good on a deal he's made. But now he looks as if he has come to the conclusion he's more interested in wheeling and dealing to trade than to just build a team the conventional way.

He's really starting to take a beating on these trades, but seems content to put his carreer on the line by continuing to push for trades.

What is your opinion on the matter?


He really doesnt want to rebuild so thats why he does the wheeling and dealing. But with the way the team has turned out the last 2 years he may have to rethink his plan. I wouldnt be surprised to see him trade down this year.

[Broncoman13]

I think that is why Bowlen is yanking on the reins this off-season.

I don't think that the Bly deal was bad. In fact, I think we got some good value for Foster and Bell. Sure the contract to Bly was high, but he'll end up giving some of that back and there were a few games last season that Bly played with the most heart of anyone on our defense.

The trade up for Jarvis Moss right now looks like a terrible move. I'll freely admit that the draft trades last year were probably the breaking point... but for Bowlen I think it was probably guys like Rice, Adams, and Walker. That's probably $10m of his money with nothing to show for it at this point.

A lot of people around here were screaming for Shanny the HC... let Shanny the GM walk. Well, nothing was made public or announced, but I think it was brought up. And clearly Shanny has been reined in and is no longer "allowed" that blank check in free agency and the trade market.

[Bronx33]

Is crazyhorse putting out bait?


again

[wolf754life]

good thread crazy, i agree, the guy has totally lost his touch as a GM.

[Drek]

Champs was a good deal. Bly (IMO) is over rated a bit. But that was probably a good trade. Other than that, he's had his butt handed to him.

Filling 4 position with 9 draft picks
The Browncos

The "browncos" cost us all of a late 4th round pick and Ruben Droughns, for Gerard Warren, Ebenezer Ekuban, and Mike Meyers. Droughns is now a #3 back, and we since moved Warren for an early 5th.

Brown and Lang were FA acquisitions. Of the five former Browns only Warren got any real money in his time here. Four of them together were the core of a DL that got to an AFC Championship game.

So how exactly is that a bad deal?

I know you're just here to get your trolling out since you know KC won't be competitive within your lifetime, but at least try to show some football knowledge. But then thats probably asking too much, since your GM and head coach are both incapable of it as well.

[HEAV]

What is your opinion on the matter?



Chef's suck. ;D

[azbroncfan]

You could probably do the same analysis for a lot of teams in the NFL.

[Bronx33]

Chef's suck. ;D



I concur..

[NW Bolt Fan]

The rat can work a trade better than anyone in the NFL. Couple that with some of the worst 1st day picks in the biz, and it's the current state of the donks.

Kinda balances out.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Shanahan has lost it. The Broncos desperately need a fresh start.

[boltaneer]

IMO he seems to be losing his touch but I think for the first time in a long time he's doing the right thing and laying low during free agency.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Shanahan's problem is 1) inconsistent to poor drafting due to gambling on players with injury histories or character risks and 2) a tendency to try to fill critical OL and DL positions with free agency guys instead of drafting those guys high in the draft. I have no problem with his trading record, which is pretty solid for reasons already stated.

[OABB]

I think his reputation precedes him. Shannahan is one of the best coaches to ever coach in the history of the game. I don't think anyone will argue that. The broncos won two superbowls with him in his first four years as a coach.

From there, you can only go downhill. you see, the standard of the broncos is based off of championships. and it is unfair.

trolls come here to say he slipping, or off the deep end because the broncos aren't as good as a two time defending championship team that fielded the goat at qb and a arguable hofer at rb(barring injury).

the league today is a league designed to polish the rocks and dull the diamonds, what with FA and salary cap. Teams that play us, still fear us, and a win against the broncos means more than a win against the cardinals or chiefs.

a 9-7 average season would be good to most teams, but to the shannahan coached broncos, that is a failure. When the broncos miss the playoffs, it is still a news story and many of us get upset, and trolls try to pile on, but no one ever questions why that is newsworthy.

we have a higher standard. period. WE expect way too much from shanny and co, and teams don't take it easy on us. look at the detroit game last year, they felt like they won the superbowl even though they beat up on a team that isn't very good right now.

we all know we aren't a good team at this moment, but we are building something special. soon this shift will fall on the chargers who are very good. teams will start to get up for those games, and when the chargers slip a bit, no one willl show mercy. that is the way of this league. that is why teams that make the superbowl and lose, usually don't make the playoffs the next year.

the dominant teams in todays league aren't that much better than the bad one's, so you can be a bad team one year, and the champs the next. you need to be lucky now, and good where it counts.

I can see that shannahan is building a winner here. anyone that knows football can see that. but trolls, or douches like wolf and telluride jut want to wine and cry and not ever point out the fact that we still have a top five coach and a playoff caliber team every year.

so all you naysayeres, and trolls should enjoy this while you can, because soon the broncos will rise again and you won't have anything else to tool on about.

yes, we aren't very good right now, but who here doesn't feel that a serviceable dline wont instantly vault us into a contender? do you Crazyhorse, honestly think you are just a few players short? we do every year, right or wrong, we do every year. that's how good our nucleas is.

even when we suck, we are still better than most teams in the league.

[BroncoBuff]

WRONG!

Provided Jarvis Moss matures into a starter, our last three drafts have been excellent. With the exception of Ernster and Hixon, I think all of those picks are still here. And Drek is right that the Browncos came very cheap, and also played very cheap while taking us to an AFC title game.

Sure, we struck out on a couple FA and trades, but we scored big on Champ, Lynch, Holland, Engelberger, Abdullah, Selvin, Andre Hall, Mike Bell, and maybe still Travis Henry and Dre Bly. Even Javon had one season where he was our #1 offensive weapon.


Most of the boilerplate Shanny hate I'm reading in here is old, old stuff. It was only valid four or more years ago. The Middlebrooks/Toviessi draft and Dale Carter/Darryl Gardener signings were 7 years and more ago, so get with the times. We have drafted and signed FAs very, very well for three years running now.

[Dagmar]

I had potato soup for lunch.
With bacon and garlic bread.

It was delicious.

[sixtimeseight]

if you have penultimate self confidence in your mastermindedness,
you are going to try to use it. as opposed to letting the dice roll (as in the draft).

This word does not mean what you think it means.

[Bronx33]

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/377/abepaperuf9.jpg

[Florida_Bronco]

I can't believe a post filled with such backwards thinking logic in the attempt to bait people has spawned so many serious responses.

[400HZ]

Three good drafts? I count zero starters from 05, a good draft in 06, and no signs or indications that 07 was even decent. If Bowlen wants to keep Shanahan for more than a couple more seasons, I would bring another strong personality into the organization to check Shanahan's personnel decisions and be given exclusive power over free agency signings. I hope he doesn't, but that's what I would do. :)

[OABB]

Three good drafts? I count zero starters from 05

classy....

[Florida_Bronco]

Three good drafts? I count zero starters from 05

One starter died, while Foxworth, Paymah and Myers have all been solid contributors. Myers did excellent last year, Foxworth can play safety and corner and Paymah continues to grow. Only Clarett and Ernster didn't pan out.

and no signs or indications that 07 was even decent.

Marcus Thomas started almost all the year, extremely impressive for a rookie DT who missed most of his senior season. Moss was a beast in camp before he sustained an injury and showed flashes during the season until he broke his leg. Crowder notched 4 sacks, and Harris spent most his time on the bench as par for the course for rookie O-linemen in our system.

[Inkana7]

Three good drafts? I count zero starters from 05
Chris Myers? D-Will? Foxworth's started a bunch of games, Paymah started a few last year. Ernster was our starting punter in '06. The only guy NOT to start a game was Clarett.

I think you need to bone up on your counting.

[400HZ]

classy....

With due respect paid to the Williams tragedy, wasn't he deactived once or twice towards the end of 06?

[Inkana7]

With due respect paid to the Williams tragedy, wasn't he deactived once or twice towards the end of 06?

The Arizona game due to injury.

[Florida_Bronco]

Chris Myers? D-Will? Foxworth's started a bunch of games, Paymah started a few last year. Ernster was our starting punter in '06. The only guy NOT to start a game was Clarett.

I think you need to bone up on your counting.

Indeed. That was a very ignorant post on his part.

[400HZ]

Chris Myers? D-Will? Foxworth's started a bunch of games, Paymah started a few last year. Ernster was our starting punter in '06. The only guy NOT to start a game was Clarett.

I think you need to bone up on your counting.

I wasn't counting backups getting starts due to injuries as starters.

[Florida_Bronco]

I wasn't counting backups getting starts due to injuries as starters.

I can't begin to tell you how short sighted that is.

[Inkana7]

I wasn't counting backups getting starts due to injuries as starters.

Myers and Foxworth both showed they could be NFL starters. Especially Myers, who I was really impressed with. They just happen to be playing the same position as Pro Bowlers.

[400HZ]

Sorry, and I don't want to belittle contributions that some of those guys made, but calling 2005 a successful draft because you got some good depth players isn't being realistic. Most teams rightfully expect more from their draft classes.

[PRBronco]

Sweet thread title you ****in' retard. You fail at menial internet tasks. Jump off a cliff.

[Inkana7]

Sorry, and I don't want to belittle contributions that some of those guys made, but calling 2005 a successful draft because you got some good depth players isn't being realistic. Most teams rightfully expect more from their draft classes.

Like starters for the future? Myers and Paymah will be starting in the next few years, and D-Will was starting.

Is Eric Weddle a "good depth player"?

[OABB]

Sorry, and I don't want to belittle contributions that some of those guys made, but calling 2005 a successful draft because you got some good depth players isn't being realistic. Most teams rightfully expect more from their draft classes.

come on, are you being serious now?

[Bronx33]

come on, are you being serious now?

Chugger fans are a bit full of themselves with there recent success it will all end soon and they will be back where they belong (as raider fans)

[Drek]

Sorry, and I don't want to belittle contributions that some of those guys made, but calling 2005 a successful draft because you got some good depth players isn't being realistic. Most teams rightfully expect more from their draft classes.

We made six selections. Of those one was a starter for two years before his tragic death, another started pretty much all of last season first at OG then C and if he's resigned will likely be a long term starter. Two more are solid backups. One was a 7th round punter.

So other than the selection of Mo Clarett, when we could've had Brandon Jacobs (my personal choice from that class), it was good results from a draft that was by and large leveraged to get us a future 1st and make a play for our franchise QB.

[sixtimeseight]

Sorry, and I don't want to belittle contributions that some of those guys made, but calling 2005 a successful draft because you got some good depth players isn't being realistic. Most teams rightfully expect more from their draft classes.

Not every team is lucky enough to draft top 5 in like 8 straight seasons.

[400HZ]

Like starters for the future? Myers and Paymah will be starting in the next few years, and D-Will was starting.

Is Eric Weddle a "good depth player"?

Eric Weddle will be starting next year, in his 2nd season. It will be the 4th season for your 2005 draft class, and those guys you list probably won't start games unless they are filling in for injuries. Once again, I'm not saying you didn't get any value at all from that class, but to come out and say it was a very good draft and not have a single starter from it doesn't seem quite right. We have very different standards, I guess, which just proves my point that Shanahan could use some help on draft day.

[OABB]

but to come out and say it was a very good draft and not have a single starter from it doesn't seem quite right.

classy, again.

and by the way, you seem hung up on this particular draft. We were talking about the last three years being very good collectively by the way.

this past year is too early to tell, but two years ago in addition to the draft you are downplaying are very very strong drafts. If last year produces just one stating dlinemen, these three drafts are still very strong and that is the point we were making.

[Popcorn Sutton]

What a troll.

[SoCalBronco]

Sorry, and I don't want to belittle contributions that some of those guys made, but calling 2005 a successful draft because you got some good depth players isn't being realistic. Most teams rightfully expect more from their draft classes.

From the 2005 draft, Denver got two starters, and two good nickel corners. We got substantial contributions from two thirds of our class (which is even more impressive when you consider that we did not have a draft choice for like the first 50 picks). We did pretty well in 2005, no question about it.

[400HZ]

If last year produces just one stating dlinemen, these three drafts are still very strong and that is the point we were making.

Having 8 picks and producing 1 starter isn't a strong draft imo, especially when your team has plenty of room for improvement. Once again, different standards.

[rugbythug]

Having 8 picks and producing 1 starter isn't a strong draft imo, especially when your team has plenty of room for improvement. Once again, different standards.

Your standards will change quickly. As I recall the bolts were the worst team in the NFL for a few straight years. That makes drafting starters pretty easy.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Having 8 picks and producing 1 starter isn't a strong draft imo, especially when your team has plenty of room for improvement. Once again, different standards.

You really are full of yourself...

[400HZ]

From the 2005 draft, Denver got two starters, and two good nickel corners. We got substantial contributions from two thirds of our class (which is even more impressive when you consider that we did not have a draft choice for like the first 50 picks). We did pretty well in 2005, no question about it.

Pick for pick:
2 24(56) Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma St. - Sorry, tragedy
3 12(76) Karl Paymah CB Wash. St. - Nickleback. You can't call him anything more because he hasn't done anything more yet.
3 34(97) Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland - Nickleback/marginal safety
3 38(101) Maurice Clarett HB Ohio St. - miss
6 26(200) Chris Myers OG Miami (FL) - good pick
7 25(239) Paul Ernster PK N. Arizona - miss

It's not a terrible draft, but it's nothing to brag about either.

[400HZ]

Your standards will change quickly. As I recall the bolts were the worst team in the NFL for a few straight years. That makes drafting starters pretty easy.

Ya, and I didn't try to pimp up our craptacular drafts.

[Bronx33]

Ya, and I didn't try to pimp up our craptacular drafts.

and I don't want to belittle contributions

So i guess your done here? Buuuuuuuubye.

[400HZ]

So i guess your done here? Buuuuuuuubye.

I reserve the right to belittle my own teams past.

[SoCalBronco]

Pick for pick:
2 24(56) Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma St. - Sorry, tragedy
3 12(76) Karl Paymah CB Wash. St. - Nickleback. You can't call him anything more because he hasn't done anything more yet.
3 34(97) Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland - Nickleback/marginal safety
3 38(101) Maurice Clarett HB Ohio St. - miss
6 26(200) Chris Myers OG Miami (FL) - good pick
7 25(239) Paul Ernster PK N. Arizona - miss

It's not a terrible draft, but it's nothing to brag about either.

It's a good draft. Two starters (Williams, Myers) and two good nickel corners. That's 4 out of 6 (and one of our misses was our 7th rounder, OH NOES! we didn't hit on our 7th rounder, two thirds of whom do not even make their teams out of camp). This was a good draft. There's no way around it.

And re: different standards, well sure there are going to be different standards, for a long time you guys were picking in the top 5 in every round whereas we were picking 25 or below in each round. That has to be taken into account, but I'm happy with our drafting this decade, we've done a good job regardless. We had one really, really terrible year (2003), but otherwise we've done well.

[OABB]

Having 8 picks and producing 1 starter isn't a strong draft imo, especially when your team has plenty of room for improvement. Once again, different standards.

well I would agree with that, HOWEVER, and AGAIN, we are talking about the last three drafts collectively. remeber, we are perrenial winners, so we don't have the luxury that perrenial losers get considering the draft selections.

we have the best cb in the game via trade, another starting db from trade, and solid fa veterans in lynch, holland, graham, stokely,henry, and until last week walker via a draft pick from two years ago.

my point, we are getting better before we are getting worse. we have been bad because of mistakes from many years ago, but we have turned the corner and are building a solid team these past few years.

While I wish we could have hit on the draft like picking sb mvp eli manning, I can't say that we have been all that bad either.

[400HZ]

If you guys really think that Shanahan doesn't need some help on draft day, then I'll concede the point.

[Bronx33]

I reserve the right to belittle my own teams past.

Ok get busy ...

[sixtimeseight]

While I wish we could have hit on the draft like picking sb mvp eli manning, I can't say that we have been all that bad either.

Not every team can be lucky enough to pick Eli with the number one pick, have him refuse to play for their garbage organization, and end up reaching for a 3rd-round talent QB at pick #4, while picking up a roided up LB freak of nature in the process.

[Bronx33]

Bueller bueller bueller

http://fftoday.com/nfl/drafttracker.php?o=by_team&TeamID=9012

[Dagmar]

http://images.mes2.com/HeraldSun/39008/images/Springfield-Shopper.jpg

[crazyhorse]

I can't believe a post filled with such backwards thinking logic in the attempt to bait people has spawned so many serious responses.


Backwards thinking logic?

Totally legit question. Over the last few years Shanny has traded nearly as many players and picks as he has drafted. That formula has made the Broncos a team on the decline.

You cant get any more serious than that. It's not backwards thinking. It's totally reasonable.

Just because I posted it, doesn't mean it's incorrect. In fact, very seldom do you folks generate a reasonable debate on any topic. But instead throw personal barbs and dismiss anything anti donko as trolling.

Fact is, no one here has the capacity for debating the topic because the proof is in the production. The Broncos production level has been dropping and Shannys trades are at the forefront as one of the reasons for that.

Anyone thinking last years draft was a success is "backwards thinking".