What is better: Ameritrade, Sharebuilder, or another site?

[Mr. Trout]

This is for the financial gurus in here. I am not a good fine print reader and am looking to dabble in some stocks and/or mutual funds.

[Mr. Trout]

I guess fidelity is another site worth mentioning.

[TallyBronco]

None of them. The research is very clear on this point. Amateur traders show lower ROI than those who pick an average mutual fund and just sit on it. Men tend to be especially self-deluded on this point, and tend to trade most often. And the most frequent traders among the amateurs lose the most money.

You're not smarter than the market. You can't beat it. You must be assimilated.

If you get some odd pleasure out of moving securities from one folder to another, then go for it. But if you simply must put your money on the NYSE pick a solid fund and take up a secondary job. You'll make more money sweeping floors on the weekend.

[Mr. Trout]

your probably right. i wasn't planning on getting too wild with it though.

[Mr. Trout]

Do you have any input on the best site to do just mutual funds.

[hades]

I use E*Trade, if you do over 30 trades a qtr. it is $9.99 per trade.

When the mkt is down, look at ETF's, like QID, DOG, etc. (Well get them on days the mkt is good, sell on bad mkt days like Friday!) Some solar stocks are doing OK right now too, especially when oil prices go up. Solar is a good long term hold, but can flucuate. I made some good money with WFR over the past 3 months.

TallyBronco, if you do research and don't trade on feelings, you can still beat the market. I started trading on Oct. last year, and I have gained over %30 in my porfolio. It's all about timing, not being greedy and research (and of course luck). I made a killing on CFC, I sold the day the announced merger came out and more than doubled my investment. Same with E*Trade (ETFC). I have bought/sold them 4 times already, getting ready to sell again if the rumor of a buyout is true)

You can do some free research on companies with zacks.com, and they also have daily recommendations.

[JJJ]

None of them. The research is very clear on this point. Amateur traders show lower ROI than those who pick an average mutual fund and just sit on it. Men tend to be especially self-deluded on this point, and tend to trade most often. And the most frequent traders among the amateurs lose the most money.

You're not smarter than the market. You can't beat it. You must be assimilated.

If you get some odd pleasure out of moving securities from one folder to another, then go for it. But if you simply must put your money on the NYSE pick a solid fund and take up a secondary job. You'll make more money sweeping floors on the weekend.

That is why I use Sharebuilder as they specialize in dividend reinvestment plans. Just pick a fund or company you like and DRIP it every month. Dollar cost averaging is the only way to go.

[Meck77]

I'm just a firm believer in working with people you meet. It's not a hand of blackjack in vegas. There are expenses to consider but IMO the additional services will get you on the right track if you form the right team.

[TheReverend]

Any company that has a comparable price and allows you to search for micro cap, value stocks and you're fine.

[400HZ]

Do you have any input on the best site to do just mutual funds.

Vanguard has some of the highest rated funds and one of the lowest expense ratios. Their top funds have really high minimum buy in amounts, though. Among the cheaper ones, Windsor II and Global Equity were rated high in a lot of financial magazines last year.

[Meck77]

Now what does a Kansas kid know about Trout Mr. Trout? You man have to trade online if you live in Kansas!

[DB84FAN]

I use tdameritrade and scotttrade. scotttrade $7 per trade and TD $9.99

[Vegas_Bronco]

If you have more thatn $50,000 to invest, I know the boys for you - their up 22% on mutual funds last year. But, I grew tired of mutual funds and my investor said he would line me up with those who few know - the really rich basta... we all hate but wish we knew.

Typical ROI on the stock market has been 10% since 1920's - don't expect 2008 to be one of those all-common years. This year will be a bloodletting.

Although there is GREAT news, when the dollar is weak, there is always forex - check out this website: www.babypips.com (http://www.babypips.com) (takes you through grades 1-12) - set up a practice acct of $50k at forex.com (make sure you tell them a bronco fan referred you) and start practicing every night (BUT ONLY AFTER SCHOOL IS COMPLETE) - watch for the majors (USD/JPY, GBP/USD and EUR/USD) to move at 9-12pm PST or from 4-8am PST (you know you don't sleep anyway). It's something to do while you work on those late night projects.

When you become proficient, take you $ to www.tradestation.com (http://www.tradestation.com) and open up a mini-account. Don't give them anything you're not willing to part with but just enought to learn - inside of 3-4 months experience you'll be making fools out of stock brokers and the NYSE.

After doing well in the stock market, the past 3 years, I quit and went to forex trading - H-O-L-Y .... - it is something to behold once you've graduated from babypips school you're ready to make some money. Remember though, don't leverage before you've gained sufficient knowledge as you will get slaughtered (use practice acct to get started - its hypothetical $).

There are few things the 'rich' want us to know - this is one of the many!

[Popps]

None of them. The research is very clear on this point. Amateur traders show lower ROI than those who pick an average mutual fund and just sit on it. Men tend to be especially self-deluded on this point, and tend to trade most often. And the most frequent traders among the amateurs lose the most money.

You're not smarter than the market. You can't beat it. You must be assimilated.

If you get some odd pleasure out of moving securities from one folder to another, then go for it. But if you simply must put your money on the NYSE pick a solid fund and take up a secondary job. You'll make more money sweeping floors on the weekend.


Let me sum this up for you all.... you're all idiots. Don't attempt to think for yourself... trust your money to someone who doesn't care about you, charges you fees for something you could easily do yourself, and brings you whopping 10% returns per year.

I've been involved with investing and trading securities for about two decades and that's some of the worst advice I've ever heard.

Anyone who follows that advice deserves exactly what they get.

[Vegas_Bronco]

I agree popps! Why would you ever ask someone else how to invest YOUR money? Get off your azz and learn something - do it yourself!

[Meck77]

If you have more thatn $50,000 to invest, I know the boys for you - their up 22% on mutual funds last year. But, I grew tired of mutual funds and my investor said he would line me up with those who few know - the really rich basta... we all hate but wish we knew.

Typical ROI on the stock market has been 10% since 1920's - don't expect 2008 to be one of those all-common years. This year will be a bloodletting.

Although there is GREAT news, when the dollar is weak, there is always forex - check out this website: www.babypips.com (http://www.babypips.com) (takes you through grades 1-12) - set up a practice acct of $50k at forex.com (make sure you tell them a bronco fan referred you) and start practicing every night (BUT ONLY AFTER SCHOOL IS COMPLETE) - watch for the majors (USD/JPY, GBP/USD and EUR/USD) to move at 9-12pm PST or from 4-8am PST (you know you don't sleep anyway). It's something to do while you work on those late night projects.

When you become proficient, take you $ to www.tradestation.com (http://www.tradestation.com) and open up a mini-account. Don't give them anything you're not willing to part with but just enought to learn - inside of 3-4 months experience you'll be making fools out of stock brokers and the NYSE.

After doing well in the stock market, the past 3 years, I quit and went to forex trading - H-O-L-Y .... - it is something to behold once you've graduated from babypips school you're ready to make some money. Remember though, don't leverage before you've gained sufficient knowledge as you will get slaughtered (use practice acct to get started - its hypothetical $).

There are few things the 'rich' want us to know - this is one of the many!

In other words the trend is your friend. Well except for Vegas.;)

[Vegas_Bronco]

Etrade is like driving a luxury sports car that gets 2 miles to the gallon - sure it's beautiful, drives, and you look good, but their fees/expenses are ridiculous!

I use Etrade for all my research and have a small account of $250.00 in there - so I use them all day long for their information and research, but all my trades are carried out in another account - scottrade, therefore I get the best research with a lower cost per trade.

[Vegas_Bronco]

In other words the trend is your friend. Well except for Vegas.;)

Exactly -

I forgot to mention, whatever you learn in life that makes you successful, MUST BE PASSED ON! Success is not a end but a journey as my trader says and that journey is to help as many as you can to be successful in all facets of life Knowitall !

[Popps]

This is for the financial gurus in here. I am not a good fine print reader and am looking to dabble in some stocks and/or mutual funds.

Personally, I'd recommend using a couple of discount brokerages.

Sharebuilder: Great site for DRIP and Auto-investment plans. Perfect for those who don't want to think TOO much about it, but want some control and don't want to give a huge chunk of your gains to a fund manager.

Scottrade: Very low rates on trades and user-friendly. Good for intermediate to advanced traders. There are some drawbacks for the advanced trader (Options limitations, no put-selling, margin issues, etc.) But, it's good enough for most average to active investors and their tools are actually pretty useful. Excellent real-time quotes, etc.


As for mutual funds, there's nothing wrong with them. They're great for a portion of your portfolio. I'd recommend starting a Roth IRA with Vanguard. (Take your pick, they have a lot of great funds.)

But, to simply throw your money in one or two mutual funds is not just lazy, it's counterproductive. There are TONS of options from muni-bonds to preferred stock and other ways to make a nice return without exposing yourself to too much risk.

Hell, just simply investing in the major indexes will bring you more than your average mutual fund over a 5-10 year period and guess what... you don't have to piss part of your profits away!

Diversify, but don't totally avoid risk. Temper it with key factors like age, income... etc. But, you should have a varied portfolio ranging from cash to (eventually) ... more advanced investments like futures and options. (Once you've really found your way around.)

Motley Fool is a great starters site for newer investors that also happens to be good for advanced traders. They stress fundamentals, even for the experienced.

Start slow and take time every day to research and learn. It's rewarding financially and gratifying to know that you're taking care of your own finances.

I started saving money from my tips as a waiter and bartender back in the day... and grew that money into enough to start my business which is how I support my family today.

I'd wish you luck, but it's not about luck.

Enjoy.

[Popps]

I agree popps! Why would you ever ask someone else how to invest YOUR money? Get off your azz and learn something - do it yourself!

Well, when someone is using catch phrases like "you can't beat the market," it's clear that he's heard someone else say this... and he's repeating it.

Any remotely seasoned investor knows you don't "beat" the market. You WORK with the market. Good investors don't just make money when the market is going up.

In any case, I think most people have more sense than to take such a lazy, frightened approach to their financial welfare.

[Taco John]

I am personally petrified of the market right now until this dollar thing gets straightened out.

[Meck77]

I am personally petrified of the market right now until this dollar thing gets straightened out.

Terrified? Then diversify and relax a bit or throw some poker chips out? :thumbs:

[Taco John]

Terrified? Then diversify and relax a bit.

I wouldn't touch a stock with a ten foot pole right now. I have been diversifying in hard commodities. They're going gang busters right now thanks to the Fed devaluing the dollar at every opportunity they get.

I might think about getting back into the stock market once they start raising rates again.

[Vegas_Bronco]

I wouldn't touch a stock with a ten foot pole right now. I have been diversifying in hard commodities. They're going gang busters right now thanks to the Fed devaluing the dollar at every opportunity they get.

I might think about getting back into the stock market once they start raising rates again.

TJ - I agree!

The best investment over the next month will be investing your pix in the NCAA tournament - lol! Laugh all we want, but honestly, a true sports nut typically makes a killing over the next 2 months. Teams are killing each other in order to make the grade for the tourney. Personally, I stay away from sports betting, but all my friends love it and do very well! Its a good way to diversify - lol!

[Popps]

I am personally petrified of the market right now until this dollar thing gets straightened out.

Start accumulating defensive names at discount prices over the next six months. THIS is when you want to be looking at what's on sale (and over the next few months) .... not after the dow has popped 5-10%.

Also keep in mind, if you're that bearish... there are ways to play that too. You mentioned some good ones but there are more.

I'm not saying to take big swings, but there's definitely money to be made when things are getting beaten up. (Be it selling short or accumulating on drops.)

[TallyBronco]

Well, when someone is using catch phrases like "you can't beat the market," it's clear that he's heard someone else say this... and he's repeating it.

You might bother reading my original post. "Research" is the key word there. The RESEARCH in microeconomics and expertise is quite clear regarding the average ROI of active amateur traders. On average, they lose more than "lazy" traders who simply pick a mutual fund and sit on it.

The guys at the office day-trading during lunch are, on average, losing money. The advantages they gain from trading are psychological & social advantages, such as the sense that I am in control of my finances when I'm actively trading. I'm purchasing a good feeling at the expense of a good investment.

Which is one reason I don't trade. And my "laziness" will beat your "courage" four out of five years.

I could trot out citations on peer-reviewed papers to support my point, but I would probably have to explain what peer-review means, followed by an extended lesson in sampling distributions. But I get PAID to teach that stuff, and you're not dropping any cash in my lap to go with your snowflake attitude.

Forget anecdotes, forget success stories (they're rarely balanced by stories of failure), forget inside information, stock picks, etc. The market is highly efficient and only those very close to market decisions can consistently spot inefficiencies year after year. By the time Joe Schmoe hears about some "great pick" he's the 1,089,938th person to hear about it.

Few amateurs have the time and motivation required to consistently earn more than the market average, and for every one that tries and succeeds, many more fail. And for every one that succeeds in one year, he fails in many more. Yes, you can do more than simply dump money in a fund and go back to the television. But day-trading is one of the most popular and unproductive approaches to an active investment strategy.

Back to sweeping....

[Popps]

Who said anything about being a day-trader?

You jumped up some guy's ass because he asked a simple question about brokerages.

Now you're busting waxing poetic about your own genius as an investment wizard?

LOL

O.K... dude. We get it. You're a genius. We're all dopey slobs who should be terrified of the big, bad stock market and hence hand all of our earnings over to "teachers" like yourself.

[Hogan11]

Follow Ken Heebner....anything he has something to do with is something you want to have something to do with.

Just watch Mad Money and Fast Money on CNBC for a couple of months before you do anything first.....great shows that teach you a lot and don't put you asleep doing it.

[hades]

Etrade is like driving a luxury sports car that gets 2 miles to the gallon - sure it's beautiful, drives, and you look good, but their fees/expenses are ridiculous!

I use Etrade for all my research and have a small account of $250.00 in there - so I use them all day long for their information and research, but all my trades are carried out in another account - scottrade, therefore I get the best research with a lower cost per trade.


I have a Scottrade account, but their customer service killed it5 fro me, they sucked! They couldn't even give good directions to the branch office near me!

Hogan11, do you listen to Cramer, he is the kiss of death on a stock! if he says buy, sell, if he says sell, buy! Can't stand him or Prasanth from Citi.

[Hogan11]

I have a Scottrade account, but their customer service killed it5 fro me, they sucked! They couldn't even give good directions to the branch office near me!

Hogan11, do you listen to Cramer, he is the kiss of death on a stock! if he says buy, sell, if he says sell, buy! Can't stand him or Prasanth from Citi.

I've been watching Cramer for months now and I'd honestly say his success rate since I've been watching him is running about 75%.

Whether you agree with his picks or not, he does explain the market in English for novices, which is the main value of his show/books if you ask me.

[Mr. Trout]

all good info and some good commentary! love it.

[Mr. Trout]

Now what does a Kansas kid know about Trout Mr. Trout? You man have to trade online if you live in Kansas!


My nickname is Trout because my last name is Trauer and one of my genius friends decided to shorten it up. There are some trout in Kansas. They are just implanted every season and are barely bigger than bluegill. Not exactly in the financial mecca of the U.S. am I?

[Popps]

I've been watching Cramer for months now and I'd honestly say his success rate since I've been watching him is running about 75%.
.

I agree, though you have to be patient with his picks. He tells you to wait a few days when he gives a pick, I say to wait a few weeks, minimum. If you track his picks... they often do well months after he gives them. Recent examples include Agrium, John Deere and United Petroleum. All three were shaky after his recommendation, then 60 days later (or so) ... began to climb nicely.

Sometimes you just have to listen to his logic more than his picks. Plus, he's human... so he gets things wrong and he'll sometimes contradict himself.

But, overall... it's a very worthwhile show and always entertaining.

[Popps]

I have a Scottrade account, but their customer service killed it5 fro me, they sucked! They couldn't even give good directions to the branch office near me!
i.

Really?

Wow, I guess this is why it's tough to make blanket statements. Scottrade has beeen EXTREMELY helpful with me. I've called them a number of times. They've got local offices, which almost no other brokerage does.

They even contact you when certain events take place. I had an option assignment last week and they actually called me to let me know! Pretty above and beyond, imo.

Sorry to hear about your experience, but I'd still recommend people give them a try... and I believe they are top rated in customer satisfaction.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I have accounts at TD Ameritrade, Scottrade & E-Trade and have excellent access to almost all mutual funds available. And despite what you may have heard here there is money to be made in the markets now.

[Hogan11]

I agree, though you have to be patient with his picks. He tells you to wait a few days when he gives a pick, I say to wait a few weeks, minimum. If you track his picks... they often do well months after he gives them. Recent examples include Agrium, John Deere and United Petroleum. All three were shaky after his recommendation, then 60 days later (or so) ... began to climb nicely.

Sometimes you just have to listen to his logic more than his picks. Plus, he's human... so he gets things wrong and he'll sometimes contradict himself.

But, overall... it's a very worthwhile show and always entertaining.

Absolutely.

I like Squawk On The Street as well.....but that's mainly because I think Erin Burnett is mega hot (hubba hubba Ha!)

[hades]

Well, if you hate E*Trade, sorry, cuz I think their stock is about to take a nice little hike! I increased my shares on them Friday afternoon!!!


From online.wsj.com

E*Trade May Be Angling for Sale
E*Trade is hiring Donald Layton, former vice chairman of J.P. Morgan, as CEO of the online brokerage. The move is aimed at rebuilding investor confidence and possibly positioning the firm for sale.

[ak1971]

depends on what you are looking to do..Thinkorswim is pretty good for options

[Arkie]

Hell, just simply investing in the major indexes will bring you more than your average mutual fund over a 5-10 year period and guess what... you don't have to piss part of your profits away!



Good point. 90% of the actively managed mutual funds underperform their respective indices over the long term. There's no way to know which 10% will beat the market over the next 20 years, so why invest in them?

Burton Malkiel explains why the average actively managed fund must underperform the market in his book A Random Walk Down Wall Street (http://www.amazon.com/Random-Walk-Down-Wall-Street/dp/0393062457)

But even if markets were not efficient, indexing would still be a very useful investment strategy. Since all the stocks in the market must be owned by someone, it follows that all the investors in the market will earn, on average, the market return. The index fund achieves the market return with minimal expenses. The average actively managed fund incurs an expense ratio of about 1.5 percent per year [ed: in Canada I think this is higher]. Thus the average actively managed fund must underperform the market as a whole by the amount of the expenses that are deducted from the gross return achieved.


If you don't want to do your own due diligence, then invest in index funds.

[Vegas_Bronco]

Just saying: This is the 6th time in 2 months I have purchased FDX (FedEx) stock at 87.50-88.00 per share and sold within 1 week at 90.50 - it meets both resistance points and can't break through.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.aspx?D4=1&ViewType=0&C7=3&ComparisonsForm=1&D5=0&C5=3&CE=0&ShowChtBt=Refresh+Chart&DateRangeForm=1&D3=0&C6=2008&C9=0&DisplayForm=1&Symbol=FDX&C8=2008&CP=0&PT=4

Just saying that's all.

[Vegas_Bronco]

With Ben ready to drop the rates again (in next 10-12 days) - I think the 15th or 16th, I'd jump into the forex trading and get ready to short your dollar positions! I think he's going to drop them more than anticipated which should cause bond pricing to possible go higher making for a tough day on wall street.

[Vegas_Bronco]

good article for young guns:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/younginvestors/06/portfoliomanagement.asp

[Vegas_Bronco]

Start reading stuff like this instead of stuff Bob Writes and you'll be just fine:
http://www.traderdaily.com/magazine/article/3008.html

http://www.traderdaily.com/index.html

[SPORTSWRITER]

This is for the financial gurus in here. I am not a good fine print reader and am looking to dabble in some stocks and/or mutual funds.

Scottrade may work. I'm a metals man myself as of late- mostly gold and silver bullion and rare coins. For good info about lots of investments from different investors, this link is to a place called INVESTMENTU. You can sign up for their newsletters and learn quite abit about just about any investment: www.investmentu.com Good trading!

[x123z]

I agree with Popps. I paid a full service broker for advice and got killed with the dot com crash. I like tdameritrade

[hades]

Just saying: This is the 6th time in 2 months I have purchased FDX (FedEx) stock at 87.50-88.00 per share and sold within 1 week at 90.50 - it meets both resistance points and can't break through.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.aspx?D4=1&ViewType=0&C7=3&ComparisonsForm=1&D5=0&C5=3&CE=0&ShowChtBt=Refresh+Chart&DateRangeForm=1&D3=0&C6=2008&C9=0&DisplayForm=1&Symbol=FDX&C8=2008&CP=0&PT=4

Just saying that's all.



So since it is 90.45 today, your saying it is a good time to short some FDX!

[Hogan11]

Jim Cramer's famous freakout on the Fed w/ Erin Burnett
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[Vegas_Bronco]

So since it is 90.45 today, your saying it is a good time to short some FDX!

No! Wait till it drops to 88 or below and then buy long - it works like a charm. I never short this simply b/c I feel that it is undervalued. Watch your momentum, MACD, and volume - those are the key indicators. It will break through these pts of resistance by next week though - depends on what Big Ben Blubberneckie says.

[BroncoBuff]

I love this thread and all the success stories - as if people would really come in and recount how they lost their shirts on something. Popps and the prof keep arguing, despite the fact they're not actually disagreeing. Just keep running the lingo, boys. Reminds me of gorillas beating their chests :~ohyah!: There was a user on this board who was offering guys to join him in investing in Las Vegas area real estate funds two years ago. I don't remember who it was, but these past two years can't have been kind to him ... and he won't be coming in this thread to recount his losses, either.

So imo, despite what everybody's saying, anybody playing the market these last three or four years has been schooled pretty good. One example: Starbucks was a double-digit gainer every year from '94 to '06, and a staple stock for me. But now it's lost value almost three straight years. That's the market in a nutshell, from where I'm sitting anyway.

Kinda reminds me of an LA Sheriff's deputy I knew ten years ago - a bailiff I used to see on a regular basis. He always had stories about having won big last time in Vegas, and he recounted intently how he had beaten Baccarat and Blackjack. On a monthly basis he would go out there and win, always several thousand bucks, and he explained how I could do the same. The funny part was, despite my insistent queries, he never lost, NEVER. Finally curiousity got the better of me, and I looked his name up on Lexis/Nexis real property. Sure enough, one foreclosure six years earlier, and upside down on an 1100 square foot bungalow in North Hollywood.


This ain't the 90s anymore, guys ... hell, I even made money day-trading with Schwab in the 90s, and I had no real idea what I was doing. Once I made almost $600 in just a few days on a stock called Federal Signal. Funny thing was, I wasn't all that conscious that I even had the stock!

I don't know much about bonds and options (though my late father made a killing on transportation put options he bought the week of 9/11), but I do know the market fairly well, and if anybody says they're beating it consistently these past few years - without inside information - they're either very very lucky ... or very very dishonest.

[BroncoBuff]

Now that I've said all that, I'm gonna open a Motley Fool account right now. ROFL!

What's that link Popps?

[hades]

Now that I've said all that, I'm gonna open a Motley Fool account right now. ROFL!

What's that link Popps?


The Fools has some good stuff if you want long term gains. Short term are a bit harder to nail down, but I think Zacks does have some good research and tools to help in that area. SCSC was on Zacks list yessterday, watch them. Another good one IMO is CSIQ, solar company that announced earnings a couple days ago and took off. They should do really well this year, and revised estimates for the next qtr up already. I bought some and held them less than 24 hours and made 18% gain (sold after the earnings report).

I'm not a pattern day trader, but I do make a lot of short term trades, some same day trades.

[Vegas_Bronco]

I like the negative tpouts in this thread ....you guys be right and I'll be rich - lol!

Whatever you do..make sure you practice and perform successfully before you risk real capital.