In Case You Missed The Debate

[frerottenextelway]

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=209976&Sn=WORL&IssueID=30344

Obama 'not prepared' to handle crisis


WASHINGTON: Hillary Clinton suggested Barack Obama was not prepared to handle a global crisis in a debate last night that offered one of her last chances before next week's must-win primaries.

They faced off in a debate at Cleveland State University.

She portrayed Obama as a national security novice and said Americans can be assured she would not need a "foreign policy instruction manual" to keep the country safe.

She also compared him to President George W Bush.

Obama, meanwhile, put in something of a good word for Clinton at an Ohio campaign stop, saying voters should support Democrats, because "myself or Senator Clinton, we're all concerned about creating a better social safety net".

Former Democratic presidential candidate and superdelegate Chris Dodd yesterday endorsed Barack Obama.

Gotta love journalism!

... May as well make this the debate thread for when it actually happens ...

[Rohirrim]

He is a national security and foreign policy novice. I can't imagine there is much disagreement about that. As Pat Buchanan pointed out tonight, remember, JFK went to visit Khruschev in his first months in office, which directly led to Khruschev misreading Kennedy as a novice and a weakling, which led him to put missiles in Cuba. If Obama is true to his word, he will go visit Ahmadinijad in his first year. What that will lead to?

[frerottenextelway]

He is a national security and foreign policy novice. I can't imagine there is much disagreement about that. As Pat Buchanan pointed out tonight, remember, JFK went to visit Khruschev in his first months in office, which directly led to Khruschev misreading Kennedy as a novice and a weakling, which led him to put missiles in Cuba. If Obama is true to his word, he will go visit Ahmadinijad in his first year. What that will lead to?

I don't think you make a completely invalid point here, but these kind of talks are exactly how we won the Cold War too. One thing I noticed about Obama, is he's scarily intelligent and has a very quick learning curve (I think this campaign speaks for itself, being that it was his first national campaign and he beat the Clinton machine). I have more confidence in him handling direct talks than I would in just about anyone else.

[Bronco Jamus]

we're all concerned about creating a better social safety net".

.

Is that like a golden parachute? Government cannot even manage it's own books. More ridiculous notions from weak candidate.

[Rohirrim]

I don't think you make a completely invalid point here, but these kind of talks are exactly how we won the Cold War too. One thing I noticed about Obama, is he's scarily intelligent and has a very quick learning curve (I think this campaign speaks for itself, being that it was his first national campaign and he beat the Clinton machine). I have more confidence in him handling direct talks than I would in just about anyone else.

Well, he would be a refreshing change from the current idiot. No denying that. JFK was a pretty sharp guy too. He still had to go through a pretty intensive learning period (that almost started WWIII). I hope he surrounds himself with a bunch of very sharp people and lets them take the lead until he has his legs under him.

[frerottenextelway]

Is that like a golden parachute? Government cannot even manage it's own books. More ridiculous notions from weak candidate.

When he used that term in his book, he was referring to how the Clinton administration helped secure a surplus, where if there was an unexpected event, we had the ''safety net'' to help us through downtimes and fund basic programs like SS. Then he went on about how the Bush administration removed this net by simataneously sharply cutting taxes, increasing spending, and leading us into an expensive War.

Maybe you disagree with that line of thinking, but it's my guess you had no idea what you read or what was meant by it.

[Rohirrim]

What the conservative policy has been since the time of Raygun is to attack the concept of government itself while simultaneously starving it (except for the military/industrial complex). Then, when you have starved a program into inefficiencies, you point out the incompetence of government. As Gary Hart pointed out, there are few things as stupid as electing people to serve in the government who are opposed to the idea of government. Fortunately, the Right is finally being revealed as nothing more than the adherents of a failed ideology. Unfortunately, the American people have to pay the price of the failure of that ideology.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What the conservative policy has been since the time of Raygun is to attack the concept of government itself while simultaneously starving it (except for the military/industrial complex). Then, when you have starved a program into inefficiencies, you point out the incompetence of government. As Gary Hart pointed out, there are few things as stupid as electing people to serve in the government who are opposed to the idea of government. Fortunately, the Right is finally being revealed as nothing more than the adherents of a failed ideology. Unfortunately, the American people have to pay the price of the failure of that ideology.

QFT!

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/g/f/norquist_bathtub.jpg

[Bronco Jamus]

When he used that term in his book, he was referring to how the Clinton administration helped secure a surplus, where if there was an unexpected event, we had the ''safety net'' to help us through downtimes and fund basic programs like SS. Then he went on about how the Bush administration removed this net by simataneously sharply cutting taxes, increasing spending, and leading us into an expensive War.

Maybe you disagree with that line of thinking, but it's my guess you had no idea what you read or what was meant by it.

There was no surplus and there is no saftey net government can provide for the masses. SS is DOA by the simple fact that our Congress, who has increased spending and cut taxes, uses money from SS to fund its whims like bridges to nowhere.

[Bronco Jamus]

What the conservative policy has been since the time of Raygun is to attack the concept of government itself while simultaneously starving it (except for the military/industrial complex). Then, when you have starved a program into inefficiencies, you point out the incompetence of government. As Gary Hart pointed out, there are few things as stupid as electing people to serve in the government who are opposed to the idea of government. Fortunately, the Right is finally being revealed as nothing more than the adherents of a failed ideology. Unfortunately, the American people have to pay the price of the failure of that ideology.

The idea of less federal government is as old as the republic itself. These government programs don't work because they have goals that are almost impossible to obtain.

[Dukes]

I'm excited about bush's foreign policy nearing it's end. But Obama does concern me when he says he wants to sit down with the enemy and talk it out (or however he said it, i'm not going to pull up the quote). The reason why that concerns me is you can not talk rationally to a irrational person.

They would just assume assassinate him than come to a peaceful resolution

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/mmail010z.jpg

BJ vs. reality...

There was no surplus...

The last Clinton budgets:

'98 1.722 Trillion in, 1.653 out. Surplus=69 Billion

'99 1.828 Trillion in, 1.701 out. Surplus=127 Billion

'00 2.025 Trillion in, 1.788 out. Surplus=237 Billion

'01 1.991 Trillion in, 1.864 out. Surplus=127 Billion

The first Bush Budget:

'02 1,853 Trillion in, 2,011 out. Deficit=158 Billion

Source: Congressional Budget Office

[Dudeskey]

I'm excited about bush's foreign policy nearing it's end. But Obama does concern me when he says he wants to sit down with the enemy and talk it out (or however he said it, i'm not going to pull up the quote). The reason why that concerns me is you can not talk rationally to a irrational person.

They would just assume assassinate him than come to a peaceful resolution

One could argue that Russia & China were "irrational" before Nixon started talking to them.

[orinjkrush]

obama is the country grasping at straws.
sorta like Ron Paul.
the RNC and the DNC perpetually offer up the lowest common denominator.
third parties end up like Jessie Ventura land.
Seems like there are no good alternatives.
At this point I'd vote for Mock or for Spyder. Common sense people with an ornery streak.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

obama is the country grasping at straws.
sorta like Ron Paul.
the RNC and the DNC perpetually offer up the lowest common denominator.
third parties end up like Jessie Ventura land.
Seems like there are no good alternatives.
At this point I'd vote for Mock or for Spyder. Common sense people with an ornery streak.

The "change" Obama talks about isn't going to happen until the present total merger of corporate interests and government is broken up.

I don't hear any of the candidates talking about this. Edwards and Kucinich probably came the closest.

[orinjkrush]

beware the military (political government)-industrial complex.--Eisenhower


career civil servants are sick of the sycophant politicos (R and D) who don't know what the hell they're doing. the next President should bring no one into government with him/her.

[Taco John]

What the conservative policy has been since the time of Raygun is to attack the concept of government itself while simultaneously starving it (except for the military/industrial complex). Then, when you have starved a program into inefficiencies, you point out the incompetence of government. As Gary Hart pointed out, there are few things as stupid as electing people to serve in the government who are opposed to the idea of government. Fortunately, the Right is finally being revealed as nothing more than the adherents of a failed ideology. Unfortunately, the American people have to pay the price of the failure of that ideology.




Starving it? Government has done nothing but grow and cost more and more. This is ESPECIALLY true during the Bush era.

[alkemical]

I missed it on purpose dammit, stop trying to tell me what happened!

[BarefootKicker]

Main Entry: de·nounce
Pronunciation: \di-ˈnau̇n(t)s, dē-\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): de·nounced; de·nounc·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French denuncier to proclaim, from Latin denuntiare, from de- + nuntiare to report — more at announce
Date: 13th century
1: to pronounce especially publicly to be blameworthy or evil <they denounced him as a bigot>



Main Entry: re·ject
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈjekt\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin rejectus, past participle of reicere, from re- + jacere to throw — more at jet
Date: 15th century
1 a: to refuse to accept, consider, submit to, take for some purpose, or use <rejected the suggestion> <reject a manuscript> b: to refuse to hear, receive, or admit : rebuff, repel <parents who reject their children> c: to refuse as lover or spouse
2obsolete : to cast off
3: throw back, repulse
4: to spew out

[Bronco Jamus]

Starving it? Government has done nothing but grow and cost more and more. This is ESPECIALLY true during the Bush era.

Absolutely true.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Starving it? Government has done nothing but grow and cost more and more. This is ESPECIALLY true during the Bush era.

Which makes you wonder why so many "conservatives" (who supposedly believe in smaller government) have been such die-hard apologists for Team Bush.

[Dukes]

Which makes you wonder why so many "conservatives" (who supposedly believe in smaller government) have been such die-hard apologists for Team Bush.

I honestly don't know of many that are

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I honestly don't know of many that are

This forum is chock-full of folks who have tenaciously defended Dubya's every move since the frat boy was sworn in - although their numbers have dwindled in direct proportion to the decline of Bush's approval numbers, and the few who remain are not nearly as vocal and/or self-righteous as they used to be. ;)

[Old Dude]

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=209976&Sn=WORL&IssueID=30344

...

WASHINGTON: (etc., etc.) ...

Former Democratic presidential candidate and superdelegate Chris Dodd yesterday endorsed Barack Obama.

...

That's another biggie for Obama. His momentum seems to be continuing.

Clinton lead still slipping in Ohio ... now down to 5%.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/ohio/ohio_democratic_presidential_primary

Texas a dead heat in one poll...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/texas/texas_democratic_presidential_primary

with others starting to show an Obama lead...

http://www.411mania.com/politics/columns/69822/Another-New-Poll-Shows-Obama-Leading-In-Texas.htm

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/politics&id=5981432

And now he's apparently pulled to within 6% in Pennsylvania (vote is April 22) where Hillary once held a commanding lead.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5go2sy0SV4BVuekAPmo_FA8d21IXgD8V2K7G81

But ... meanwhile ...

McCain is getting a bounce in the polls and could beat either of them ...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/27/poll-mccains-hard-to-beat/

[TailgateNut]

If McCain were to win this thing and we face another 4 years of the "same ol BS" then we as a nation deserve no less and no more. Neither the repukes nor the democrats could make any excuses if they allow another warmongering idiot to occupy the WH. We would truly be the laughing stock of the globe.
I'll move to Montana, stock up on guns and ammo and put up a few warning signs around the property, just to warn those who are about to make the grave mistake of trespassing.

[enjolras]

Just because one votes Republican, it does not mean they are conservative (at least in the small government sense). Most of the strong Bush support is from the value-Republicans who place their pro-evangelicalist, pro-life, anti-science agenda ahead of all else. These folks are not conservative in the slightest, they are actually a sort of perverse form of Liberal.

[Dukes]

This forum is chock-full of folks who have tenaciously defended Dubya's every move since the frat boy was sworn in - although their numbers have dwindled in direct proportion to the decline of Bush's approval numbers, and the few who remain are not nearly as vocal and/or self-righteous as they used to be. ;)

I'm talking about people I ACTUALLY know. Not people on this site

[Old Dude]

Uhm .. about those superdelegates ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/27/clinton-camp-presses-supe_n_88640.html

Meanwhile, superdelegate John Lewis switches from Hillary to Obama amd Obama picks up superdelegate vote from North Dakota Sen. Byron Dorgan.

Looks like most of the Super-Ds will at least wait until after March 4, though.

[alkemical]

Medical Marijuana Voting Guide (http://granitestaters.com/candidates/)

You can thank me for this....yeah you know who you are.... ;) :wiggle:

[theAPAOps5]

What will Billary do if the Super Delegates defect. I mean they are already posturing for a lawsuit to include those delegates they agreed to make null. Delegates where Obama wasn't even on the ticket. I have a feeling the power machine that is Clinton has some sort of strong arm up their sleeve.

[gunns]

The reason why that concerns me is you can not talk rationally to a irrational person.


That's probably why Bush never tried it. Can you imagine two irrational people trying to talk rationally???

[Old Dude]

The other reason why some superdelegates tend to support one candidate or the other (and why the whole superdelegate system should be abolished IMHO):

http://www.capitaleye.org/superdelegates.asp

[Rohirrim]

The other reason why some superdelegates tend to support one candidate or the other (and why the whole superdelegate system should be abolished IMHO):

http://www.capitaleye.org/superdelegates.asp

Our entire political system is rancid.

[Dukes]

And why does the Democratic Party have superdelagates? Because they don't trust their own voters. Democracy at it's finest.

[frerottenextelway]

From the Politico...

Clinton was asked by KTVT in Dallas about a Clinton backer, Adelfa Callejo, who was quoted saying "Obama's problem is that he happens to be black."

Clinton: "Well obviously I want us judged on our merits. I believe strongly that the fact that we have an Aftrican Ameircan and a woman running for the Democratic niomination is historical and I'm very very proud of that. I want people thought to look beyond, look beyond race and gender, look at our records, look what we stand for, look what we've done and I think that's what most voters ar looking for."

Q (paraphrase) Is this something you reject and denounce?

"People have every reason to express their opinions. I just don't agree with that. I think that we should be looking at the individuals who are running."

Q - Do you still want her support, though?

Clinton laughed and said, "You know This is a free country. People get to express their opinions. A lot of folks have said really unpleasant things about me over the course of this campaign. You can' take any of that as anything other than an individual opinion."

"I would urge all of my supporters and Sen. Obama's supporters to stay focused on the two of us,. Don't vote on race don't vote on gender, vote on the qualifications each of us present for the presidency."

Q- But you criticized Obama for not rejecting the support from Farrakhan.

"I don't see any comparison at all with what you're referring to and I don't know the facts of what you're telling me over the TV. So I'm just going to repeat that I want people to judge us on the merits."

[frerottenextelway]

You never give me your money ...

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[orinjkrush]

i'm starting to think about voting for Lou Dobbs. experience doesnt matter, only the internal moral compass does. he seems to have a good one. and i might enjoy watching the political train wreck.

[frerottenextelway]

Obama Campaign:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pXvq1wu-LiI&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pXvq1wu-LiI&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Clinton Campaign:

http://www.beloblog.com/KVUE_Blogs/politicaljunkie/2008/02/clinton-texas-campaign-respons.html

<h1>Clinton Texas Campaign Response Time Tracker</h1>
Since the arrival of the competing presidential campaigns, I have had a difficult time getting a hold of the Clinton campaign's Texas press contact, Adrienne. It's rather difficult to include the Clinton campaign in stories when we cannot connect. For example...

-- A February 8th email to establish first contact went unreturned.<br />
-- A call and voicemail message on February 13th regarding office openings went unreturned.

This morning, I called for a response on the<a href="http://www.burntorangereport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5166"> House Democratic Caucus leaders taking issue with Clinton's comments </a>about <a href="http://www.texasmonthly.com/blogs/stateofmine/2008/02/hillary-seat-michigan-florida-delegates.php">Texas not being in her "electoral calculation"</a> in November. Adrienne responded with, "Oh, Lord," and said she would call back once she found out more about the dust-up, and I never heard from her again.

I called again this afternoon to try to connect, but got a voicemail greeting.

I hear anecdotally from my press corps brethren that I'm not the only one having problems with this. So I'm starting the unofficial "Clinton Texas Campaign Response Time Tracker", to track future attempts at making contact and the time it takes to hear back. Time is obviously pretty important to journalists, since our deadlines are often "right now".

I'm not going to go out of my way to call the campaign just for the sake of it. Instead, we will continue only reaching out to the campaign about legitimate questions in which we're seeking a response, and we'll track the response time with each attempt.

So the clock on a response to today's question started at 10:45am. It's now 11:10pm, so it has now been 12 hours, 25 minutes...

Yeah, you tell me which one runs a better ship.

[Spider]

There was no surplus and there is no saftey net government can provide for the masses. SS is DOA by the simple fact that our Congress, who has increased spending and cut taxes, uses money from SS to fund its whims like bridges to nowhere.

Being completely stupid is funny on tv .Sucks in real life

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'm talking about people I ACTUALLY know. Not people on this site

I obviously can't speak for anyone you know, but I know the Internet is probably the only place left where a lot of people who are still on the BushCo bandwagon are not afraid to reveal themselves. :giggle:

[Spider]

The Super Deligates is a rip off ..........bunch of ****

[theAPAOps5]

Yeah, you tell me which one runs a better ship.

I think when its all said and done people will look back and see that Billary's campaign team sunk the mighty ship. When you are vying for president and your argument against your opponent is His experience and lack there of you can't have a campaign that looks to be as dysfunctional as Billary's is right now.

[Old Dude]

Here's how tough it looks for Hillary (in the pledged delegate race) from here on out:

http://www.slate.com/features/delegatecounter/

[Old Dude]

Bottom line:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=ayraBSSaVF_w&refer=home