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View Full Version : What do you guys think about Brandon Lloyd?


isiddiqi
02-26-2008, 07:43 PM
Source: Fanball.com

02/26 Redskins: Lloyd cut loose by Washington
The News
The Redskins released Brandon Lloyd from their roster on Tuesday, according to the Washington Post.

Our View
Lloyd racked up 48 catches, 733 yards and five touchdowns in his last season with the Niners, but he failed to even catch a touchdown in his two seasons with the Redskins. He'll resurface somewhere, but don't expect much of a rebound.


I remember watching him on the 49ers about 2-3 years back and this guy used to catch everything thrown his way, from the not so accurate Alex Smith at QB, with some of the really hard acrobatic catches. You would think the guy's got glues on his hands... I always felt Redskins did not utilize him well due to S. Moss and Cooley being the goto guys for them, and I think he would come real cheap to fill that spot against BMarsh with some experience as well, and a good QB like Cutler will be able to utilize him more. I feel we should go for this guy and draft a young WR to groom. Besides we still have Glen Martinez on the roster...

Besides him, most of the WRs in the FA are very expensive, and I personally feel we should stay away from the expensive FA WRs...

Smelvin
02-26-2008, 07:45 PM
He's horrible.

bronco militia
02-26-2008, 07:49 PM
I hope he saved the $10 million signing bonus the redskins gave him....

;D

isiddiqi
02-26-2008, 07:53 PM
If you go back 2-3 years and look at some of the 49er's games, you will see what I am talking about. Free money is always good, especially if its in millions, but we could offer an incentives based contract. I personally think he can be good as well as cheap for us. All other FA WRs demand big time money, and I feel we should address that need thru draft and sign this guy, cause he has an upside.

RunSilentRunDeep
02-26-2008, 08:20 PM
Total loser; locker room cancer; for every acrobatic catch in SF there was a drop; runs horrible routes.

bpc
02-26-2008, 08:27 PM
Maybe he has been humbled. If the price is right, i'm all for anybody beating out Glen Martinez.

I'm still interested in Mario Manningham in round 2.

yerner
02-26-2008, 08:55 PM
No, No, No

edgemyster
02-26-2008, 09:08 PM
Brandon doesn't like to get hit....

http://forum.ninercaphell.com/images/smilies/blduck.gif


http://forum.ninercaphell.com/images/smilies/blflop.gif

BizzyBone7
02-26-2008, 09:11 PM
Brandon doesn't like to get hit....

http://forum.ninercaphell.com/images/smilies/blduck.gif


http://forum.ninercaphell.com/images/smilies/blflop.gif

thats priceless. but i may be in the minority, but i have always been a fan of his. I dont think he is that big of a cancer as people make him out to be. I think he could be a solid #2.

Ray Finkle
02-26-2008, 09:24 PM
live in VA....he is the claw without hands....

Dudeskey
02-26-2008, 09:25 PM
Well he'd be a better option @ #2 than Glen Martinez

cutthemdown
02-26-2008, 09:51 PM
Well he'd be a better option @ #2 than Glen Martinez

not really

Mooby
02-26-2008, 11:55 PM
If you guys really want a guy that's not even that dedicated to football then go right ahead, take him. If you ask him what you think his future is in life and the choices were rapper and a football player, 10 bucks says he would tell you he's gonna be a rapper and the football thing is just a side gig. I mean we even gave the guy a second chance, in the first game of the season against Miami, Campbell went deep to him right as he was crossing the goal line and he didn't even make an effort to knock the ball away from the defender that intercepted it. He didn't even try and tackle the guy afterwards either. There isn't a team in the NFL that has room for a guy who doesn't work as hard as he should, and his next team will discover that soon enough.

CHANGSTER
02-27-2008, 12:05 AM
I think at this point he's nothing more than a decoy.

yavoon
02-27-2008, 12:06 AM
Brandon doesn't like to get hit....

http://forum.ninercaphell.com/images/smilies/blduck.gif


http://forum.ninercaphell.com/images/smilies/blflop.gif

while that look sreally bad, thats not about avoiding a hit, he musta thought there was a receiver behind him.

MileHighMania
02-27-2008, 12:51 AM
There are 100 other receivers that aren't worth the money that I would take over this spare...

cutthemdown
02-27-2008, 05:12 AM
besides have 2 WR named Brandon would be gay.

backup qb
02-27-2008, 06:22 AM
Hell No

Killericon
02-27-2008, 07:23 AM
while that look sreally bad, thats not about avoiding a hit, he musta thought there was a receiver behind him.

Are you ****ing kidding me? He had to duck so that the ball wouldn't hit him square in the face! How close behind him did he think this guy was, 2 feet?

vancejohnson82
02-27-2008, 08:53 AM
I'd rather sign Lloyd Christmas

no-pseudo-fan
02-27-2008, 09:13 AM
Brandon doesn't like to get hit....

http://forum.ninercaphell.com/images/smilies/blduck.gif


http://forum.ninercaphell.com/images/smilies/blflop.gif

I don't think about this guy, but it is unfair to say that he avoids getting hit. Marvin Harrison is the biggest get the yards and get down guy of all time, along with Bruce and Holt in St L.

HILife
02-27-2008, 09:38 AM
that's a quick hell no from me

cmhargrove
02-27-2008, 09:47 AM
live in VA....he is the claw without hands....

Rep.

I always though of this guy like Darius. Lots of potential but could never put it all together. Forget this guy, draft someone for cheap. I would be happy with a receiver as high as round 2 (for the right guy), but think we could still get real value in the fourth and fifth. Lets stop with the scrubs already. We can find real talent at receiver in this draft.

Or - trade Ian Gold for someone decent if you can find a taker.

Kaylore
02-27-2008, 11:53 AM
He sucks.

yavoon
02-27-2008, 11:58 AM
Are you ****ing kidding me? He had to duck so that the ball wouldn't hit him square in the face! How close behind him did he think this guy was, 2 feet?

haha no idea.

ZachKC
02-27-2008, 02:16 PM
He is more interested in being a rapper than being an elite football player.

Which is a shame because he has the skills. Just an all around athlete. Once saw him kick a 62 yard FG.

Pony Boy
11-16-2010, 07:01 AM
Not bad with a little salt and pepper

Rabb
11-16-2010, 07:06 AM
this is a thread I had to go back and look to see if I said something in lol

Beantown Bronco
11-16-2010, 07:06 AM
Some comedy gold in this one. GREAT bump.

Pony Boy
11-16-2010, 07:11 AM
Total loser; locker room cancer; for every acrobatic catch in SF there was a drop; runs horrible routes.

This might be my favorite........ ROFL!

go_broncos
11-16-2010, 07:13 AM
He sucks.

:~ohyah!:

Sassy
11-16-2010, 07:15 AM
45/48 catches for 1st downs.
Thread closed ;D

baja
11-16-2010, 07:22 AM
This might be my favorite........ ROFL!

Except that was all true at the time. Just goes to show you people do mature and change their ways.

Pony Boy
11-16-2010, 07:26 AM
Except that was all true at the time. Just goes to show you people do mature and change their ways.

I hope you're talking about McDaniels.....:approve:

montrose
11-16-2010, 07:29 AM
Credit:

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/34/fullj.01f754f969094f81348719362e4c1586/01f754f969094f81348719362e4c1586-getty-98687679je022_kansascity.jpg

TonyR
11-16-2010, 07:36 AM
Wow, look at all the know-it-alls. Absolute embarrass.

Ray Finkle
11-16-2010, 07:44 AM
Wow, look at all the know-it-alls. Absolute embarrass.

he is a different player then he was here in DC. In DC he dropped half the balls that were thrown to him. It appears that he improved his concentration/hands because that hasn't been a factor for him (or most our WR this year).

HAT
11-16-2010, 07:47 AM
Epic bump!

Old Dude
11-16-2010, 08:06 AM
wow.

RunSilentRunDeep
11-16-2010, 08:18 AM
This might be my favorite........ ROFL!

And it was completely on the money. Why do you think three teams gave up on him? Only when faced with the end of his career did he finally grow up and start behaving like a professional. That's when his real talent came out. And I'm thrilled.

bronco militia
11-16-2010, 08:21 AM
he's playing well just in time for another pay day

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-16-2010, 08:26 AM
Best bump ever? Best bump ever.

uplink
11-16-2010, 08:29 AM
He will be a pro bowler this year despite the broncos record.

worm
11-16-2010, 08:31 AM
You mean the collective wisdom of the Mane isn't always correct and on point?

It's like finding out about Santa all over again.

Popps
11-16-2010, 08:32 AM
Hey, I get plenty wrong... but I did say last year that...

-Lloyd was going to be a poor man's Randy Moss for us.

-Orton was going to be a poor man's Kurt Warner.

Both predictions drew laughs. I'd say both look pretty good at this point.


Now, if Darius Watts can just be the next Rod Smith, my predictions will be complete. It could still happen!

Popps
11-16-2010, 08:35 AM
He will be a pro bowler this year despite the broncos record.

Don't count Orton out yet, either. At least as an alternate.

2nd in yardage.

16 TDs 5 INTs.

Better QB rating than Manning.

We'll see how the season finishes up, but he's got Pro Bowl numbers right now. He doesn't have a Pro Bowl "name," so that's going to be another hurdle.

HooptyHoops
11-16-2010, 08:36 AM
He had a wild career...he would make the most outstanding catches, then he would just disappear.....now----he just makes outstanding catches! Perfect timing for Bronco fans!!

DivineBronco
11-16-2010, 08:58 AM
Don't count Orton out yet, either. At least as an alternate.

2nd in yardage.

16 TDs 5 INTs.

Better QB rating than Manning.

We'll see how the season finishes up, but he's got Pro Bowl numbers right now. He doesn't have a Pro Bowl "name," so that's going to be another hurdle.
I agree.........Manning or Brady will decide not to go...and rivers will say no after another first round exit......should be a space for KO

Rabb
11-16-2010, 08:59 AM
I wonder if Niner and Bears fans bitch about losing Lloyd like we do Hillis

Man-Goblin
11-16-2010, 09:00 AM
I was going to post in this thread because I saw his greatness coming. I remember wanting to post something about him following the career path of Joe Horn and Chris Carter and it would just click for him once he dedicated himself in the right situation.

But then I remember getting up to let my dog out and forgetting to post.

mkporter
11-16-2010, 09:01 AM
He will be an all-pro this year despite the broncos record.

Fixed it for you...

Rohirrim
11-16-2010, 09:04 AM
I can't laugh at others. I'm still waiting for Leinart to put it together. Ha!

Pony Boy
11-16-2010, 09:11 AM
"I remember watching him on the 49ers about 2-3 years back and this guy used to catch everything thrown his way, from the not so accurate Alex Smith at QB, with some of the really hard acrobatic catches. You would think the guy's got glues on his hands... "

Well, I guess isiddi knew what he was talking about........his last post was in 2/09, I think we need to find him and put him on the talent evaluation staff.

gyldenlove
11-16-2010, 09:13 AM
Woohoo I didn't make an ass of myself.

Baba Booey
11-16-2010, 10:04 AM
****in' love the guy. Get him signed.

Lev Vyvanse
11-16-2010, 10:09 AM
woohoo i didn't make an ass of myself.

+1

broncocalijohn
11-16-2010, 10:15 AM
Except that was all true at the time. Just goes to show you people do mature and change their ways.

Correct. Maybe Brandon should be the one to look at this thread and see how he was perceived two years ago. On a side note, glad I didnt post in it because I probably would have followed the mob.

broncocalijohn
11-16-2010, 10:18 AM
I can't laugh at others. I'm still waiting for Leinart to put it together. Ha!

Me too. I want to be proven correct on Matt but tough when he is now a 3rd stringer.

****in' love the guy. Get him signed.

Listen Marty McFly, you needed to post this 2 years ago. Nice try.

footstepsfrom#27
11-16-2010, 10:28 AM
Proof positive that post count doesn't mean **** when it comes to insight. Props to the OP, whom I've never heard of before...what a great call. Props to McDaniels on this one...maybe this should cancel out the Smith fiasco.

Kaylore
11-16-2010, 10:53 AM
I would like to defend my post and others. Lloyd did suck and we are paying him peanuts. He is having a magnificent year right now and we are all very happy, but based on his career to the point of the Skins cutting him, which was the time this thread was made, he was playing like crap and I feel no remorse whatsoever for what I said then because it was absolutely true. I had no problem with us signing him last year because we are paying him nothing. Am I upset he's having a career year? NAY! I SAY NAY!. Is it even better because he's a good guy and we traded Marshall? Yes. Do I regret my earlier post? Not even a little.

Popps
11-16-2010, 10:56 AM
I agree.........Manning or Brady will decide not to go...and rivers will say no after another first round exit......should be a space for KO


Which begs the question....

400 pages of threads because we let Hillis go... and yet rarely any mention for the fact that McDaniels brought in two potential Pro Bowlers for peanuts?

broncocalijohn
11-16-2010, 11:10 AM
Which begs the question....

400 pages of threads because we let Hillis go... and yet rarely any mention for the fact that McDaniels brought in two potential Pro Bowlers for peanuts?

sorry popps but big difference. He had Hillis here with proof that he can perform and had him for chump change. He also thought guys like LaMont Jordan can outplay him. With Lloyd, he had no idea what he was going to get with him but it was cheap to find out.

Popps
11-16-2010, 11:14 AM
sorry popps but big difference. He had Hillis here with proof that he can perform and had him for chump change. He also thought guys like LaMont Jordan can outplay him. With Lloyd, he had no idea what he was going to get with him but it was cheap to find out.

Actually, Hillis proved he COULDN'T do what was asked of him last year.

Now, if you want to say that we were asking the wrong things of him, you might have a case. But, McDaniels wasn't going to alter his entire offense to accommodate a guy who couldn't learn his assignments or hold onto the ball, stay onsides, etc.

So, it's not a big difference at all.

People wet their panties day and night around here because Hillis is gone, and yet no one gives the guy credit for inserting two Pro Bowl caliber players into our line-up that he got for dirt-cheap.

It's a valid question that you're not going to explain away.

The bottom line is, people don't credit this coach for any good moves... and solely criticize his bad ones. Well, some people, anyway.

broncocalijohn
11-16-2010, 11:18 AM
of course not as it is easier to see the wrongs than rights. He is paid to find the talent but we have seen many bad pickups that scratch your head in amazement. Your are correct that he should be praised for it but when a player was in your stable and you let him go (for a player that doesnt play and also a draft pick), people are going to be pissed. Add to the fact that a guy like Hillis was a fan favorite and now will probably make the pro bowl while we struggle for a running game.

enjolras
11-16-2010, 11:22 AM
he is a different player then he was here in DC. In DC he dropped half the balls that were thrown to him. It appears that he improved his concentration/hands because that hasn't been a factor for him (or most our WR this year).

A lot of that has to do with who is throwing him the ball as well. Orton generally throws a very catchable ball. It's something really underrated with QB's (it was the biggest difference in Elways game as he matured).

Pony Boy
11-16-2010, 11:47 AM
I think "isiddiqi" was a freaking genius and the poor bastard got dog piled by everyone and he never showed his face again..........classic case of bullying is the way I see it. ;D

Ray Finkle
11-16-2010, 11:50 AM
A lot of that has to do with who is throwing him the ball as well. Orton generally throws a very catchable ball. It's something really underrated with QB's (it was the biggest difference in Elways game as he matured).

oh come on, he had:
Smith
Brunell
Collins
Orton :D
Griese
maybe Garcia throwing to him prior Denver


now that I think about it....you may be right.....what a crap load of poo stick passers....

TheReverend
11-16-2010, 12:20 PM
Am I upset he's having a career year? Yes.

Typo?

Kaylore
11-16-2010, 12:30 PM
Typo?

Ha! Yeah just a little bit.

Rock Chalk
11-16-2010, 04:49 PM
He's horrible.

Good call...

Dr. Broncenstein
11-16-2010, 04:56 PM
Holy balls this was a funny read.

theAPAOps5
11-16-2010, 05:10 PM
this is a thread I had to go back and look to see if I said something in lol

Yep I did the same! By saying nothing I can essentially say I was right about him! :spit:

I do understand why people said the things they did, heck he was inactive for nearly the entire season last year, except for the last few games.

listopencil
11-16-2010, 05:15 PM
I think he's going to be great, we should totally sign this guy.

CEH
11-16-2010, 05:29 PM
Couple points. Had Denver not been averaging 2.2 ypc and trading for idiots like Maroney I would still defend Hillis as a good football player as I did before the season even started but I wouldn't be so alarmed we traded him if our running game was somewhat decent. The KC game is a good start but we still need to see a week to week consistency out of Moreno like we have out of Hillis

Now on to a prevailing theme I read all over the Hillis thread. If Hillis was so good why was he sitting #3 on all three teams. Holmgren / Shanny got not credit because Hillis only played because of injury yet you are asking me to give credit to McD for BLLoyd's resurgent after his 8 years in the league and being inactive all last year.

If you give McD credit then the same must be extended in the Hillis thread which is fine but it invalidates several who posted in the Hillis thread.

Can't have it both ways. Well you can but that's just being a homeriistic hypocrite

Rock Chalk
11-16-2010, 06:55 PM
Couple points. Had Denver not been averaging 2.2 ypc and trading for idiots like Maroney I would still defend Hillis as a good football player as I did before the season even started but I wouldn't be so alarmed we traded him if our running game was somewhat decent. The KC game is a good start but we still need to see a week to week consistency out of Moreno like we have out of Hillis

Now on to a prevailing theme I read all over the Hillis thread. If Hillis was so good why was he sitting #3 on all three teams. Holmgren / Shanny got not credit because Hillis only played because of injury yet you are asking me to give credit to McD for BLLoyd's resurgent after his 8 years in the league and being inactive all last year.

If you give McD credit then the same must be extended in the Hillis thread which is fine but it invalidates several who posted in the Hillis thread.

Can't have it both ways. Well you can but that's just being a homeriistic hypocrite

NOt true at all. Lloyd and Hillis are different in every freaking way. No one in the NFL doubted Lloyd had the talent to play like he is. its why he kept getting shots in the NFL on various teams to do his thing.

Hillis on the other hand, was never really thought of as having a lot of talent coming into the NFL. Its why he sat behind RBs with 3 different coaching staffs.

Lloyd was given every opportunity to start, Hillis was not. Completely different situations.

As far as your other retarded comment, did you see the HOLES that Moreno got to run through on Sunday? That's what Hillis has had all year long. You see the production we got out of Moreno on Sunday? If the team even comes close to giving Moreno that kind of running room, expect consistent results. But if they revert back to letting blockers 3 yards in the backfield before Moreno is given the ball then expect the run game to suck again.

baja
11-16-2010, 07:42 PM
he's playing well just in time for another pay day

Ya he dropped those passes because he wasn't trying.

I think the dude just found the right situation.

System that makes QBs and receivers look good and a very good QB that throws a very catchable ball. He seems to have become more emotionally mature too

~Crash~
11-16-2010, 07:51 PM
Except that was all true at the time. Just goes to show you people do mature and change their ways.

that is the point about all people . and why making a total stand that a person will always be one way is silly.

baja
11-16-2010, 07:53 PM
that is the point about all people . and why making a total stand that a person will always be one way is silly.

Situations change people too or should I say situations allow people to change.

Requiem
11-16-2010, 07:54 PM
I think it is safe to say we all love him now!

extralife
11-16-2010, 09:46 PM
There was nothing wrong with this thread. Everyone that called out Lloyd was right. Now it's two years later and the switch flipped.

Caveat Lector
11-17-2010, 12:39 AM
All this begs the question. Where is Glenn Martinez these days?

Drek
11-17-2010, 06:15 AM
Now on to a prevailing theme I read all over the Hillis thread. If Hillis was so good why was he sitting #3 on all three teams. Holmgren / Shanny got not credit because Hillis only played because of injury yet you are asking me to give credit to McD for BLLoyd's resurgent after his 8 years in the league and being inactive all last year.

If you give McD credit then the same must be extended in the Hillis thread which is fine but it invalidates several who posted in the Hillis thread.

Can't have it both ways. Well you can but that's just being a homeriistic hypocrite

Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

Holmgren and Shanahan (and McDaniels) viewed Hillis as a FB and only put him in at HB when pushed into it. McDaniels actually traded Brandon Marshall and moved Royal to the slot to get Lloyd into his current role. Its not like Lloyd did much on Sundays in '09 to make himself a defacto starter heading into '10, but McDaniels put him into that position because he saw something there.

Hillis has gotten all his breaks when guys got hurt. No coach has ever looked at Hillis and said "I'm going to make this guy into my starting tailback". In fact, most look at him and say "damn, if only he'd learn to block better he'd be a good fullback". Entirely different evaluation process.

I still firmly contend that if we had kept Hillis he'd have a YPC as bad as Maroney's and would still be making mental mistakes that hurt this team. He had no interest in being a utility fullback and it showed.

cmhargrove
11-17-2010, 06:29 AM
Rep.

I always though of this guy like Darius. Lots of potential but could never put it all together. Forget this guy, draft someone for cheap. I would be happy with a receiver as high as round 2 (for the right guy), but think we could still get real value in the fourth and fifth. Lets stop with the scrubs already. We can find real talent at receiver in this draft.

Or - trade Ian Gold for someone decent if you can find a taker.

I'm sticking with my original post - and I do think he was a lot like Darius Watts. Tremendous potential, would show one play that he could make the most difficult catches, then the next play he would run the wrong route, or drop an easy one.

Maybe someone could help with stats here. Is there a site that shows receiver "targets" and "drops?" Lloyd had already been in the league like 5 years at the time of the OP, so there should be some good data on his dropsies at that point.

In February of 2008, he was a scrub. Props to Brandon for making the best of his situation.

baja
11-17-2010, 06:29 AM
Good for Hillis now let's look forward to the continued improvement of the Broncos as Josh's plan matures.

Swedish Extrovert
11-17-2010, 06:33 AM
Sucks that he's already 29... he might have 5 good years left after this one, and he'll be looking to get paid.

Swedish Extrovert
11-17-2010, 06:37 AM
Wow, I read the first two pages of this thread and decided to post a response that turned out to be irrelevant because this thread turned into another Hillis b****ing thread.

I'm more pissed about losing Phons for that a-hole Nate Jones.

baja
11-17-2010, 06:42 AM
If only we had kept Ashley Lelie

CEH
11-17-2010, 06:42 AM
Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

Holmgren and Shanahan (and McDaniels) viewed Hillis as a FB and only put him in at HB when pushed into it. McDaniels actually traded Brandon Marshall and moved Royal to the slot to get Lloyd into his current role. Its not like Lloyd did much on Sundays in '09 to make himself a defacto starter heading into '10, but McDaniels put him into that position because he saw something there.

Hillis has gotten all his breaks when guys got hurt. No coach has ever looked at Hillis and said "I'm going to make this guy into my starting tailback". In fact, most look at him and say "damn, if only he'd learn to block better he'd be a good fullback". Entirely different evaluation process.

I still firmly contend that if we had kept Hillis he'd have a YPC as bad as Maroney's and would still be making mental mistakes that hurt this team. He had no interest in being a utility fullback and it showed.

The fact is he was inactive all of '09 with 8 years worth of tape on 3 or 4 teams, Josh drafted 2 WRs one in the first round tells me McD lucked into Brandon after 8 years and what 4 teams?

So if Marshall was the perfect citizen do you think McD trades Brandon. Brandon was traded because he was a cancer on the team not because we had the other Brandon to step in. Marshall was gone regardless of who was here. Royal's natural position is slot WR anyone can see that from day one of '09

You keep bringing up Shanny and Hillis would continue to be a fullback. .It may have been the case at the start of '08 but at the end of '08 Shanny said Hillis would be a RB based on what he did in '08. This was in a radio interview Dec '08 the week before the last game in SD. Keep bringing up the retreaded argument because I know what is what and what I heard directly from Mike.


Eddie MAc, Stink. Alfred Williams, Phill Simms, Collinsworth, Sapp the list goes on that Denver made a mistake in evaulating what they had in Hillis.

Even Josh said the evaluation process is both "art and science" when he discussed the Hillis trade a week ago. The "art" part gives him an out that yeah mistakes can happen when evaluating talent.

Drek
11-17-2010, 06:56 AM
The fact is he was inactive all of '09 with 8 years worth of tape on 3 or 4 teams, Josh drafted 2 WRs one in the first round tells me McD lucked into Brandon after 8 years and what 4 teams?
And then he put him in the starting lineup going into 2010.

So if Marshall was the perfect citizen do you think McD trades Brandon. Brandon was traded because he was a cancer on the team not because we had the other Brandon to step in. Marshall was gone regardless of who was here. Royal's natural position is slot WR anyone can see that from day one of '09
Yep, and when Royal moved to the slot Lloyd would've stepped into his old Z position. Royal only lined up in the Z because we didn't have anyone else who could be a deep threat. Once Lloyd picked the system up McDaniels saw that he could fill that role and was able to move Royal to where he belonged. It had nothing to do with Marshall's spot in the WR scheme (other than the fact that Royal played out of position in the Z last year to make sure the defense would be stretched for Marshall to work underneath). McDaniels obviously felt comfortable with what he had though, because even with Marshall being a jackass McDaniels could have just given in and paid the guy if he didn't think he could live without him.

You keep bringing up Shanny and Hillis would continue to be a fullback. .It may have been the case at the start of '08 but at the end of '08 Shanny said Hillis would be a RB based on what he did in '08. This was in a radio interview Dec '08 the week before the last game in SD. Keep bringing up the retreaded argument because I know what is what and what I heard directly from Mike.
I never said he'd have kept him at FB, and Shanahan said he'd get a shot at more carries, FYI. Its great what he said on the way out, doesn't change the fact that it took nearly a half dozen other guys getting hurt before Hillis got a shot to run the ball. If Shanahan had put Hillis higher up the depth chart we might not have seen as much of a mid-season slump and he'd very possibly still be the coach here. He didn't believe in him as a HB though, only as a FB, until he had it proven to him in a desperate situation.

If anything McDaniels was the most bullish to start on Hillis of the last three personnel guys to have him. McDaniels opened up last year trying to get Hillis a good number of touches as a runner and passer, even trying to get him touches as a return man. Hillis **** the bed with those opportunities. It wasn't a problem with how McDaniels evaluated him. It was a problem with how Hillis performed on the field.


Even Josh said the evaluation process is both "art and science" when he discussed the Hillis trade a week ago. The "art" part gives him an out that yeah mistakes can happen when evaluating talent.

How is that an out? That is just the reality of it. Hillis didn't get the job done with the opportunities given here. Initially it didn't look like that was going to change in Cleveland. Then Harrison had a combination of nagging injuries and poor play that opened the door for Hillis to be a straight tailback, his dream. He seized on that opportunity.

I said when we drafted Hillis that if we gave him a chance to carry the ball he'd never give the job back. Unfortunately Shanahan didn't believe that until it was too late and McDaniels wanted to use him in a more diverse jack of all trades role. Turns out Cleveland was the team lucky enough to catch his break out even though they didn't even put him high up the RB depth chart to start the year. Good for them, it happens and its why teams make trades in the NFL. Sometimes all it takes is a change of scenery and a fresh start.

jhns
11-17-2010, 06:59 AM
http://forum.ninercaphell.com/images/smilies/blduck.gif



That makes me laugh every time I see it. It is a good tbing he was scared of the ball then or we probably wouldn't have him.

baja
11-17-2010, 07:09 AM
[QUOTE=CEH;3009184]The fact is he was inactive all of '09 with 8 years worth of tape on 3 or 4 teams, Josh drafted 2 WRs one in the first round tells me McD lucked into Brandon after 8 years and what 4 teams?

<b>Josh signed him because he saw something other teams missed but it has to be luck that he turned out to be this effective</b>

So if Marshall was the perfect citizen do you think McD trades Brandon. Brandon was traded because he was a cancer on the team not because we had the other Brandon to step in. Marshall was gone regardless of who was here. Royal's natural position is slot WR anyone can see that from day one of '09

That and his cost was too high for a WR in Josh's 'spread it around' system.

You keep bringing up Shanny and Hillis would continue to be a fullback. .It may have been the case at the start of '08 but at the end of '08 Shanny said Hillis would be a RB based on what he did in '08. This was in a radio interview Dec '08 the week before the last game in SD. Keep bringing up the retreaded argument because I know what is what and what I heard directly from Mike.

<b>If this is true Shanny would have moved mountains to trade for Hillis.</b>


Eddie MAc, Stink. Alfred Williams, Phill Simms, Collinsworth, Sapp the list goes on that Denver made a mistake in evaulating what they had in Hillis.

<b>They all assume Quinn is chopped liver. I like Josh's ability to spot QB talent. </b>

Even Josh said the evaluation process is both "art and science" when he discussed the Hillis trade a week ago. The "art" part gives him an out that yeah mistakes can happen when evaluating talent.

<b>Even if that trade was a mistake under Josh we have made more hits than misses in player acquisitions </b>

jhns
11-17-2010, 07:17 AM
<b>Even if that trade was a mistake under Josh we have made more hits than misses in player acquisitions </b>

I see this said a lot. What exactly are you saying? Josh is just that bad of a game day coach? Why haven't we gotten a lot better now that we have so much more talent?

baja
11-17-2010, 07:22 AM
I see this said a lot. What exactly are you saying? Josh is just that bad of a game day coach? Why haven't we gotten a lot better now that we have so much more talent?

Quote me if you want but I have tired of trying to reason with you. I am beginning to think you are actually some kind of auto response program rather than an actual person.

jhns
11-17-2010, 07:33 AM
Quote me if you want but I have tired of trying to reason with you. I am beginning to think you are actually some kind of auto response program rather than an actual person.

You haven't tried to reason with me. All of your posts are about how we have better talent, better coaching, and better everything. Why aren't we better then? It doesn't make sense. You see, I like the game plans Josh puts out. I have felt that our problem is his talent evaluation. No, injuries aren't a real good excuse to me. That roster that you constantly bash had 8 wins with even more injuries than this team. It just doesn't make sense to me that we are better in every area except wins.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-17-2010, 07:41 AM
That's because you're simple-minded. You refuse to actually reasonably think through a question like "are we better" based on something more substantial than wins.

Yes, yes, we know, wins are what matter. We get it. We know that. And nobody disagrees with you. But it is OUR contention that the wins will come as these players are developed and as our injury situation shakes out.

Those of us who aren't living under a dark cloud of anger and unhappiness see some positives happening with this team. They'll take time to bear fruit, but the seeds are planted and the roots have sprouted.

Old Dude
11-17-2010, 07:44 AM
... injuries aren't a real good excuse to me...

No one ever likes to hear that injures are an excuse for anything, but they almost always are.

That, and difficulty or ease of schedule are two huge variables that can make a team look very good or very bad.

baja
11-17-2010, 07:45 AM
That's because you're simple-minded. You refuse to actually reasonably think through a question like "are we better" based on something more substantial than wins.

Yes, yes, we know, wins are what matter. We get it. We know that. And nobody disagrees with you. But it is OUR contention that the wins will come as these players are developed and as our injury situation shakes out.

Those of us who aren't living under a dark cloud of anger and unhappiness see some positives happening with this team. They'll take time to bear fruit, but the seeds are planted and the roots have sprouted.

This!

...and thanks for saving me the effort of typing it yet again. ;D

Drek
11-17-2010, 07:48 AM
I see this said a lot. What exactly are you saying? Josh is just that bad of a game day coach? Why haven't we gotten a lot better now that we have so much more talent?

Well this year the lack of performance can be largely attributed to injuries. Its pretty obvious that this team would look completely different if we didn't have every veteran starter on the OL playing through an injury to start the season, if he hadn't lost last year's NFL sack leader for the entire season, if our #1 RB was actually healthy all season, etc..

There is also the youth aspect, since many of McDaniels' big moves have been trading existing starters for draft picks. We're seeing some ROI already, but again, injuries to the best picks of the lot are slowing down their ability to help us win on Sundays.

I don't think you can just make a blanket statement that we're much more talented across the board than the last few years of Shanahan's time here. The stars on defense are the same as the ones under him. Their supporting cast looks better sure, but then in '07 and '08 they were arguably the worst defense in the league. On offense we no longer have the big name stars that the productive (from a yardage standpoint) '08 offense was built around, but we're deeper and younger across the board. I think we're a more talented team, but that is largely thanks to simply being a more well rounded team. We still need more elite level play makers on both sides of the ball.

The big question is "What does McDaniels' team look like when healthy and matured?" Unfortunately we won't get that answered this season. We should start seeing it in 2011 though, or else its time to entertain other options.

jhns
11-17-2010, 07:49 AM
That's because you're simple-minded. You refuse to actually reasonably think through a question like "are we better" based on something more substantial than wins.

Yes, yes, we know, wins are what matter. We get it. We know that. And nobody disagrees with you. But it is OUR contention that the wins will come as these players are developed and as our injury situation shakes out.

Those of us who aren't living under a dark cloud of anger and unhappiness see some positives happening with this team. They'll take time to bear fruit, but the seeds are planted and the roots have sprouted.

So the reasonable take is the one in which there is no evidence to support it? OK...

baja
11-17-2010, 07:50 AM
No one ever likes to hear that injures are an excuse for anything, but they almost always are.

That, and difficulty or ease of schedule are two huge variables that can make a team look very good or very bad.

Good luck on getting this simple point across to him many have tried and failed.

jhns
11-17-2010, 07:53 AM
No one ever likes to hear that injures are an excuse for anything, but they almost always are.

That, and difficulty or ease of schedule are two huge variables that can make a team look very good or very bad.

Sorry, let me rephrase that. Injuries are a good excuse as to why a team is underperforming. I was saying they aren't a good excuse for why we aren't getting better than what we were 2 years ago. The 08 team had the same injury problem as this one and people constantly claim that we have way more talent on this roster. Why aren't we at least performing to the 08 level then after two years of good coaching and moves?

Drek
11-17-2010, 08:06 AM
Sorry, let me rephrase that. Injuries are a good excuse as to why a team is underperforming. I was saying they aren't a good excuse for why we aren't getting better than what we were 2 years ago. The 08 team had the same injury problem as this one and people constantly claim that we have way more talent on this roster.

You obviously do not understand the concept of magnitude then. In '08 we got hit particularly hard at RB and lost both DJ and Champ for several weeks at a time. Other than that we did not lose another high level player for a significant period of time.

So far this year our OL didn't even make it through camp without all the veteran starters suffering some form of injury, the best player in our front seven was lost for the entire season, the LB who was stepping up in his void was lost several weeks ago for at least a 3rd of the season, our best safety has missed several games, our RBs have been hit nearly as hard as in '08, and our top 3 CBs have all missed game time due to some form of injury.

Every team has injury issues in a given season and we got hit pretty hard in '08 at certain spots. But you can game plan around injuries to certain spots. We've seen entire units get hit with a wave of injuries this year. I can't recall a season in recent history for the Broncos with this many significant injuries.

jhns
11-17-2010, 08:07 AM
Well this year the lack of performance can be largely attributed to injuries. Its pretty obvious that this team would look completely different if we didn't have every veteran starter on the OL playing through an injury to start the season, if he hadn't lost last year's NFL sack leader for the entire season, if our #1 RB was actually healthy all season, etc..

There is also the youth aspect, since many of McDaniels' big moves have been trading existing starters for draft picks. We're seeing some ROI already, but again, injuries to the best picks of the lot are slowing down their ability to help us win on Sundays.

I don't think you can just make a blanket statement that we're much more talented across the board than the last few years of Shanahan's time here. The stars on defense are the same as the ones under him. Their supporting cast looks better sure, but then in '07 and '08 they were arguably the worst defense in the league. On offense we no longer have the big name stars that the productive (from a yardage standpoint) '08 offense was built around, but we're deeper and younger across the board. I think we're a more talented team, but that is largely thanks to simply being a more well rounded team. We still need more elite level play makers on both sides of the ball.

The big question is "What does McDaniels' team look like when healthy and matured?" Unfortunately we won't get that answered this season. We should start seeing it in 2011 though, or else its time to entertain other options.

This is a reasonable post. I don't really agree with the youth on offense thing as we only had 3 starters with more than 3 years experience in 08. You can see what I think of the injuries in my other posts. Other than that, I can good post.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-17-2010, 08:09 AM
No, the reasonable take for the reasonable person who knows a reasonable amount about football is that there's an awful lot more to saying "a team is good" than JUST the W/L columns. It's not "Proof," this isn't a courtroom. It's simply opinion.

Without having a completely healthy roster, I don't think the W/L record is all that telling. I also think we'd be something like 5-4 or 6-3 if we had last year's sack leader, the same OL we saw play against Kansas City, etc. But maybe that's just me. I mean, there's no 'proof' for you, so please continue to rail on about how much you miss Cutler and Shanahan. That sort of fresh take is exactly what we need around here.

jhns
11-17-2010, 08:13 AM
You obviously do not understand the concept of magnitude then. In '08 we got hit particularly hard at RB and lost both DJ and Champ for several weeks at a time. Other than that we did not lose another high level player for a significant period of time.



I don't agree. The defense that we all hated was hit really hard. We played multiple games without a single starting LB. We had injuries at safety, our top corner, and a DE that never got to play. These are just the starters on the defense. Then there were the dings, like Culter vs NE. When a lot of these guys did play, they were also returning from injuries. We played a lot of rookies, including undrafted free agents, and cell phone salesmen that year because of all the injuries.

jhns
11-17-2010, 08:18 AM
so please continue to rail on about how much you miss Cutler and Shanahan. That sort of fresh take is exactly what we need around here.

What about Marshall and Hillis?

Pony Boy
11-17-2010, 08:22 AM
Injuries are a part of every team's season, but the volume of injuries with the Broncos has been huge. The lack of adjustments however does point to the coaching staff. How a team drafts and acquires players for depth is crucial in being able to deal with injuries. I give McDaniel’s and his staff an F in this area but the positive side is that many young players have been forced to step up and be productive, something that will help them going into next season.

Drek
11-17-2010, 08:24 AM
This is a reasonable post. I don't really agree with the youth on offense thing as we only had 3 starters with more than 3 years experience in 08. You can see what I think of the injuries in my other posts. Other than that, I can good post.
But we had experience where it counted in '08, and like you said "more than 3 years experience". This current offense has a promising wave of 1st and 2nd year guys developing. From a young talent standpoint its more comparable to '07 than '08.

But also keep in mind that from an offensive numbers standpoint this '10 team is doing very well. We're 5th in total offense and 14th in offensive scoring. Comparable to where the '08 Broncos ended the season. The offense isn't doing its job in the red zone but then the '08 Broncos didn't fair as well as we'd like there either. The problem is that while we've seen defensive improvement from a yards against standpoint, so far that improvement has been marginalized by giving up the same number of points as we did in '08. We haven't been turnover lucky or tough in the red zone/clutch and as a result we give up just enough to lose.

Another fact people need to acknowledge is that Mike Shanahan is one of the single greatest gameday coaches of all time. Like, top 5 without a doubt levels of good. McDaniels has shown some excellent game planning of his own but expecting him to be as good or better than Shanahan at any point, and especially in only his second year of HC work, is setting the bar ridiculously high. Shanahan wasn't fired for his game management, he was fired for bad personnel moves both with players and with his coaching staff.

Drek
11-17-2010, 08:42 AM
I don't agree. The defense that we all hated was hit really hard. We played multiple games without a single starting LB.
And if you recall we actually played BETTER in those games because the starters we had were so damn bad.

We had injuries at safety,
Again, when the starters got healthy they didn't even get their jobs back.

The starters with injuries you refer to in both of these groups never saw action on Sundays again, FYI.
our top corner,
I acknowledged Champ's injury in my comparison.

and a DE that never got to play.[quote]
What noteworthy DE was this?

[quote]These are just the starters on the defense. Then there were the dings, like Culter vs NE. When a lot of these guys did play, they were also returning from injuries. We played a lot of rookies, including undrafted free agents, and cell phone salesmen that year because of all the injuries.
And this team has seen its starters get dinged up. It is good that you mention post-injury rust though, since our OL has been obviously hampered by this, as has our #1 RB, not to mention many others (Goodman, Dawkins, Champ, etc.)

We're playing two rookies on the OL and started the year with two rookies and a guy who had never started an NFL game before on the front five. Our #3 corner has started 5 games already and when not starting was our nickel CB. We've had two rookies, a 7th rounder and a UDFA, behind him. In '08 Woodyard, Josh Bell, and Brett Kern were the only UDFAs to start, Polumbus was the only other UDFA rookie to be on the roster all season, so its not like we were starting UDFAs at a wide variety of positions or for a majority of the season.

As for Tatum, well, I'd mentioned the RB injuries already. It was catastrophic but the running game continued to produce, in no small part thanks to a freakishly healthy OL, and we didn't exactly start 2008 with a world beater at RB anyhow.

None of those injuries compare to losing Doom or the significant handicap our OL started the year with.

baja
11-17-2010, 08:49 AM
Injuries are a part of every team's season, but the volume of injuries with the Broncos has been huge. The lack of adjustments however does point to the coaching staff. How a team drafts and acquires players for depth is crucial in being able to deal with injuries. I give McDaniel’s and his staff an F in this area but the positive side is that many young players have been forced to step up and be productive, something that will help them going into next season.

So you expect McD to fill out a roster of quality backups in two drafts. No team can do that. When you factor in the fact 32 players from the roster Josh inherited are on the street now you are giving a failing grade to a task that is impossible.

Grab your upper lip and pull it over your head and I'll grade your level of success. Getting it to your eye brows is a solid 'C'.

Drek
11-17-2010, 08:53 AM
Injuries are a part of every team's season, but the volume of injuries with the Broncos has been huge. The lack of adjustments however does point to the coaching staff. How a team drafts and acquires players for depth is crucial in being able to deal with injuries. I give McDaniel’s and his staff an F in this area but the positive side is that many young players have been forced to step up and be productive, something that will help them going into next season.

So they get an F but the young guys have stepped up and been productive?

That makes no sense.

Anyhow, I agree that part of the staff's job is to install depth behind the starters. Of course a tidal wave of injuries like we've had this year make that hard since often a backup has to cover multiple positions. Our LG/RT spot where Beadles was the best option for both is an example of this. Same with OLB where after losing Doom and looking to have a solid patch with Hunter we then lose Ayers and need to make yet another adjustment. A 53 man roster limit does not leave enough room for a 1:1 starter:backup system. Depth needs to be able to fill multiple holes.

Given the magnitude of our injuries and how quickly they hit in camp after a weak FA talent pool had already been plucked near clean I'd say McDaniels responded quite well. he got Hunter and Vickerson off waivers, both have contributed, and he traded Arrington for Mays who has started to pay off as well. His big failing is rolling the dice with a young OL, getting hit by injuries to his vets, and not making a move to stabilize the line. Like signing Mawae. That was the gamble he took going into this season that has bit him in the ass more than anything else.

Pony Boy
11-17-2010, 09:02 AM
So you expect McD to fill out a roster of quality backups in two drafts. No team can do that. When you factor in the fact 32 players from the roster Josh inherited are on the street now you are giving a failing grade to a task that is impossible.

Grab your upper lip and pull it over your head and I'll grade your level of success. Getting it to your eye brows is a solid 'C'.

Read it again, I said "how a team drafts and acquires players for depth is crucial in being able to deal with injuries. What grade would you give McD for the way he has handled Knowshon's injury since training camp? Hillis gone and brings in Maroney........ your right an F is too high I will change that to an F-.

Pony Boy
11-17-2010, 09:09 AM
So they get an F but the young guys have stepped up and been productive?

That makes no sense..

Didn't say they have been solid, but they have been productive and gained experience under fire that will only help next year.

Drek
11-17-2010, 09:17 AM
Didn't say they have been solid, but they have been productive and gained experience under fire that will only help next year.

Being productive implies a respectable level of quality to their play.

As for the RB situation: he traded Hillis well before even the draft. We brought in a host of RBs to compete and the one who excelled the most got hurt and was sent to IR himself less than two weeks before opening day. Our actual #2 (Buckhalter) has seen his level of play fall off a cliff and this weakness couldn't be evaluated in camp because Buck was hurt then too. We traded for Maroney, a solid back in New England, and picked up Brown off waivers, the later couldn't stay healthy himself.

Our RBs have been a MASH unit. I'd agree that we could've done something more than the Ball/Hall duo to start camp, but when the **** started to hit the fan options were limited and McDaniels made the most of them by acquiring White, Maroney, and Brown.

jhns
11-18-2010, 07:20 AM
When you factor in the fact 32 players from the roster Josh inherited are on the street now you are giving a failing grade to a task that is impossible.


Baja loves using fake stats to try making Bronco greats look bad.

jhns
11-18-2010, 07:30 AM
But we had experience where it counted in '08, and like you said "more than 3 years experience". This current offense has a promising wave of 1st and 2nd year guys developing. From a young talent standpoint its more comparable to '07 than '08.

But also keep in mind that from an offensive numbers standpoint this '10 team is doing very well. We're 5th in total offense and 14th in offensive scoring. Comparable to where the '08 Broncos ended the season. The offense isn't doing its job in the red zone but then the '08 Broncos didn't fair as well as we'd like there either. The problem is that while we've seen defensive improvement from a yards against standpoint, so far that improvement has been marginalized by giving up the same number of points as we did in '08. We haven't been turnover lucky or tough in the red zone/clutch and as a result we give up just enough to lose.

Another fact people need to acknowledge is that Mike Shanahan is one of the single greatest gameday coaches of all time. Like, top 5 without a doubt levels of good. McDaniels has shown some excellent game planning of his own but expecting him to be as good or better than Shanahan at any point, and especially in only his second year of HC work, is setting the bar ridiculously high. Shanahan wasn't fired for his game management, he was fired for bad personnel moves both with players and with his coaching staff.

Sorry, I just will never agree with this theory. If you are going to claim injuries crippled team A, you can't claim a team with even more starters injured wasn't crippled... It just doesn't make sense.

Whatever though. It doesn't matter now. McDaniels has a roster that is 5 times as healthy as the 08 team, for the second half of this season. There aren't many excuses left now. Let's see how he finishes.

jhns
11-18-2010, 07:36 AM
So anyways, that Lloyd guy sure is a stud. McDaniels made the right move there.

Old Dude
11-18-2010, 07:45 AM
... McDaniels has a roster that is 5 times as healthy as the 08 team, for the second half of this season. There aren't many excuses left now. Let's see how he finishes.

The strange thing is that this is probably the healthiest the Broncos have been (past the mid-season point) in an awful long time.

Unless you count Doom of course and that still sucks.

jhns
11-18-2010, 07:51 AM
The strange thing is that this is probably the healthiest the Broncos have been (past the mid-season point) in an awful long time.

Unless you count Doom of course and that still sucks.

Yup, if the West continues to suck it could turn out to be a good thing that we took the injuries early and got healthy for the end of the season. If we can win some games, we could back into the playoffs with a healthy roster. It will take a lot of wins from here on though.

Old Dude
11-18-2010, 07:54 AM
Sadly, taking injuries early doesn't stop anyone from taking them late as well.

baja
11-18-2010, 07:54 AM
Sadly, taking injuries early doesn't stop anyone from taking them late as well.

LOL not in jhns world

jhns
11-18-2010, 07:58 AM
LOL not in jhns world

You are just not that bright. What does this have to do with what I said? Maybe "could" means something different in baja world? Maybe there really isn't a chance of it being a good thing that we are getting healthy?

Weird.

broncofan2438
11-18-2010, 08:22 AM
Wow, going back and reading some of the early posts....People immediately jump the gun and beat him dow "He Sucks", "Locker room cancer", "No, no, no". Cmon, I know no one could have predicted this year for him, but we are quite negative around here

strafen
11-18-2010, 08:31 AM
Sadly, taking injuries early doesn't stop anyone from taking them late as well.Isn't Indy out like 10-11 starters due to injury?
Those guys probably have more starters hurt this year than we do. Yet, they're going about their business as usual; winning!

Old Dude
11-18-2010, 08:52 AM
Isn't Indy out like 10-11 starters due to injury?
Those guys probably have more starters hurt this year than we do. Yet, they're going about their business as usual; winning!

They have 11 guys on injured reserve, with the two biggest losses being Anthony Gonzales and Dallas Clark. 5 of the guys on IR are in the secondary.

None of their linemen - on offense or defense - are on IR. They still have Manning, Wayne, Garcon, Brown, Addai, etc.

And I think the injuries have hurt them. 6-3 is off their torrid pace from last year,. They barely beat an awful Bengals club last week and they barely beat the Redskins. They split with Houston, who they usually sweep. They don't have a very easy schedule ahead. It includes the Pats, the Chargers, the Jags and two games against the Titans.

misturanderson
11-18-2010, 09:24 AM
Read it again, I said "how a team drafts and acquires players for depth is crucial in being able to deal with injuries. What grade would you give McD for the way he has handled Knowshon's injury since training camp? Hillis gone and brings in Maroney........ your right an F is too high I will change that to an F-.

And you don't see how having 1, count that 1 first and second rounder from the drafts 2000-2007 might affect a team's depth? Every other player from the top of those 8 drafts is no longer on the team, due to poor personel decisions by Shannahan. You build through the draft which was not done under Shanny and as a result we now have no depth.

There aren't an unlimited number of quality players out there for every position of need in free agency. In fact there are rarely more than a couple and they usually demand more money than they are worth with huge question marks.

On top of that, much of the depth that was brought in (specifically at RB) got injured and put on IR during training camp. That makes it pretty damn tough to get better depth.

misturanderson
11-18-2010, 09:28 AM
They have 11 guys on injured reserve, with the two biggest losses being Anthony Gonzales and Dallas Clark. 5 of the guys on IR are in the secondary.

None of their linemen - on offense or defense - are on IR. They still have Manning, Wayne, Garcon, Brown, Addai, etc.

And I think the injuries have hurt them. 6-3 is off their torrid pace from last year,. They barely beat an awful Bengals club last week and they barely beat the Redskins. They split with Houston, who they usually sweep. They don't have a very easy schedule ahead. It includes the Pats, the Chargers, the Jags and two games against the Titans.

How many 1st and 2nd rounders since 2000 are still on their team? I would bet it is a pretty good number and that most of them are contributing (Freeney, Addai, Wayne to name a few). And that doesn't even take into account how well they drafted after the 2nd round in those drafts.

That's why we have no depth, because we have exactly 4 players still on our roster from those drafts. It's not because McDaniels didn't sign the 4 decent free agents that were on the market this past year for outrageous contracts.

colonelbeef
11-18-2010, 09:41 AM
Decently talented player who has suddenly put it all together, and seems to have a desire not seen in years past.

On a good team he is a really strong #2 so long as he continues to play hard and want the ball.

baja
11-18-2010, 09:51 AM
You are just not that bright. What does this have to do with what I said? Maybe "could" means something different in baja world? Maybe there really isn't a chance of it being a good thing that we are getting healthy?

Weird.

WOW does anyone here come close to you mental brilliance? Seems you have called everyone on this forum stupid at one time or another.

baja
11-18-2010, 09:55 AM
I think many of you doubters will soon realize that Josh excels at team building, might even be his strongest suit.

jhns
11-18-2010, 10:17 AM
WOW does anyone here come close to you mental brilliance? Seems you have called everyone on this forum stupid at one time or another.

Then stop saying stupid stuff. If some of you would quit rushing to take jabs at other posters and actually read what was said, we wouldn't have this problem.

I call it like I see it.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-18-2010, 10:20 AM
Then stop saying stupid stuff. If some of you would quit rushing to take jabs at other posters and actually read what was said, we wouldn't have this problem.

I call it like I see it.

http://www.floppingaces.net/upload/2007/10/Pot-calling-the-kettle-black-734818.jpg

jhns
11-18-2010, 10:23 AM
http://www.floppingaces.net/upload/2007/10/Pot-calling-the-kettle-black-734818.jpg

You are racist.

Los Broncos
11-18-2010, 10:34 AM
I think many of you doubters will soon realize that Josh excels at team building, might even be his strongest suit.

I'm amazed the work he has done with Orton, he doesn't look like the same QB from last year.

Beantown Bronco
11-18-2010, 10:48 AM
On a good team he is a really strong #2 so long as he continues to play hard and want the ball.

#2? I don't see why he wouldn't be a strong #1 on most teams, good or bad, the way he's playing this year.

Jetmeck
11-18-2010, 10:52 AM
I think many of you doubters will soon realize that Josh excels at team building, might even be his strongest suit.

Yep that one good game in almost two years sure as hell has convinced me. Go Josh, you the man !

bendog
11-18-2010, 11:08 AM
This guy's gotta be one of the stories of the year. No one can say he lacked talent, but he played himself into two coaching doghouses and off two, maybe three, teams.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/sports/ci_16463133

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/26/AR2008022603262.html

now he's playing his ass off.

Rausch 2.0
11-18-2010, 11:43 AM
I'm really hoping he's traded in the offseason...

vancejohnson82
11-18-2010, 12:03 PM
Yep that one good game in almost two years sure as hell has convinced me. Go Josh, you the man !

one good game? for who? Orton or Josh?

you're wrong both ways douche

Old Dude
11-18-2010, 12:06 PM
How many 1st and 2nd rounders since 2000 are still on their team? I would bet it is a pretty good number and that most of them are contributing (Freeney, Addai, Wayne to name a few). And that doesn't even take into account how well they drafted after the 2nd round in those drafts.

That's why we have no depth, because we have exactly 4 players still on our roster from those drafts. It's not because McDaniels didn't sign the 4 decent free agents that were on the market this past year for outrageous contracts.


I think you missed my whole point, which was simply that injuries affect a team's performance.

If the Colts hadn't lost Clark, Gonzales and Sanders, they'd have won even more games.

I actually tend to agree with you about our drafts in this decade. Most of them weren't very good. And the biggest single problem was drafting for positions need in the middle of the pack, and reaching for guys who busted.

Old Dude
11-18-2010, 12:09 PM
This guy's gotta be one of the stories of the year. No one can say he lacked talent, but he played himself into two coaching doghouses and off two, maybe three, teams.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/sports/ci_16463133

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/26/AR2008022603262.html

now he's playing his ass off.

And this thread gets dragged, kicking and screaming, back on topic.

misturanderson
11-18-2010, 12:13 PM
I think you missed my whole point, which was simply that injuries affect a team's performance.

If the Colts hadn't lost Clark, Gonzales and Sanders, they'd have won even more games.

I actually tend to agree with you about our drafts in this decade. Most of them weren't very good. And the biggest single problem was drafting for positions need in the middle of the pack, and reaching for guys who busted.

I agree with that premise. I also think that their drafting has almost everything to do with their continued success despite lots of injuries. We don't have the depth to deal with injuries to key players like they do.

Sorry that the post seemed confrontational. I do agree with your point.

Pony Boy
11-18-2010, 12:13 PM
This guy's gotta be one of the stories of the year. No one can say he lacked talent, but he played himself into two coaching doghouses and off two, maybe three, teams.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/26/AR2008022603262.htmlnow he's playing his ass off.


The Washington Redskins released wide receiver Brandon Lloyd yesterday, ending his tumultuous and unproductive two-year tenure with the team. Lloyd, who had a reputation for disruptive behavior with San Francisco before Washington dealt two draft picks for him, caught just 25 passes with the Redskins and scored no touchdowns.

Lloyd was suspended for one game in 2006 after throwing his helmet on the sidelines and unleashed a profanity-laced tirade at wide receivers coach Stan Hixon during his first offseason here, team sources said. Coach Joe Gibbs also left Lloyd off of a road trip to New York last season after he missed a mandatory meeting, and he was essentially a spectator in 2007 between injuries and his dwindling role in the offense. He caught two passes for 14 yards last season.

OK gotta give kudos to McDaniels for polishing this turd........^5

baja
11-18-2010, 01:12 PM
ormer Chicago Bears wide receiver Brandon Lloyd has signed with Denver, the Broncos' Web site announced on Monday.

Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Lloyd, who was a fourth-round choice of the San Francisco 49ers in 2003 from the University of Illinois, started five games last season with the Bears. Lloyd had 26 receptions for 364 yards with two touchdowns. Lloyd started all four of Chicago's games in September. Lloyd will join former Bears quarterback Kyle Orton on the Broncos.

Last September, Lloyd caught 15 passes for 249 yards for the Bears.

Prior to Chicago, Lloyd spent the 2006 and 2007 seasons with the Washington Redskins. Lloyd spent 2003-05 with the 49ers.<b> In 79 career regular-seaons games with 47 starts, Lloyd has totaled 156 receptions for 2,253 yards and 15 touchdowns.</b>

At the University of Illinois, Lloyd was a two-time All-Big Ten conference selection who finished his career ranked second in school history in both receiving yards (2,583) and receiving touchdowns (21). Lloyd's 160 career receptions placed him third in the school's record books, and he became the second player in Illinois history to post two 1,000-yard receiving seasons.

He almost will do that this season if he finishes like he started.

Drek
11-18-2010, 01:58 PM
Sorry, I just will never agree with this theory. If you are going to claim injuries crippled team A, you can't claim a team with even more starters injured wasn't crippled... It just doesn't make sense.

Whatever though. It doesn't matter now. McDaniels has a roster that is 5 times as healthy as the 08 team, for the second half of this season. There aren't many excuses left now. Let's see how he finishes.

I'm sorry, losing a progressive string of ok to poor RBs does not compare to losing the league's sack leader for the entire season.

Your argument doesn't hold water because the only starters of value who missed serious time were DJ, Champ, and some RBs. Three positions hindered by injuries. The other injuries to guys like Manuel, McCree, Webster, etc. were relatively minor, they just weren't good enough to keep their jobs in the first place and even when healthy didn't get their jobs back.

This year we've already lost an elite player for all 16 games, another cornerstone player in Ayers for as large a chunk as we lost DJ for, an actual quality #2 corner has been out for nearly as many games as Champ missed in '08, and we've lost time with Moreno, Dawkins, and two of our starting OLs.

Injuries hindered the '08 squad. If they didn't get hit so hard at RB they probably win the division despite a horrible defense. But injuries have hit this team at least as badly, if not worse.

I'm not arguing for injuries as a free pass, just as something to give perspective on why this team is currently 3-6. If we do not have a big turnaround now when everyone is healthy and then come 2011 get hit with another big wave of injuries that is no reason to give McDaniels a 4th year. But right now it is a reason to 1. see our record as an inacurate measuring stick as to the team's talent as a whole and 2. have hope for superior play going forward.