This Country is Completely Filled with Idiots

[Old Dude]

More than 70% of Americans surveyed say that nanotechnology is morally unacceptable.


http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2008/02/21/nanotechnology-is-morally-unacceptable/?mod=googlenews_wsj

[theAPAOps5]

amazing its no wonder Bush was reelected.

[TheDave]

In fairness, like the article said no one seems to actually understand what it is.

Then again, that does support the claim that people are stupid.

Hmmmm.... Nevermind.

[Old Dude]

Let's just assume for a moment that I don't understand some new branch of technology...

...on what basis am I able to conclude that it's not morally acceptable?

If the only morally acceptable technologies are the ones that I understand, then pretty much every invention after toilet paper (589 CE) has been the work of the devil.

[alkemical]

"what's the point of democracy when idiocy is celebrated" - NOFX (The idiots are taking over)

[TheDave]

Let's just assume for a moment that I don't understand some new branch of technology...

...on what basis am I able to conclude that it's not morally acceptable?

If the only morally acceptable technologies are the ones that I understand, then pretty much every invention after toilet paper (589 CE) has been the work of the devil.

OD keep in mind nearly half of the population believes things happened just like it did in Genesis... plants before light, Eve made from an "Extra Rib" adam had, the entire human population came from 2 white people in Eden, etc... Were not talking about real deep thinkers here.

[spdirty]

From the article.

[/QUOTE]Our first reaction was that 70% of people must not know what nanotechnology is – President Bush, who has openly relied on moral views to shape his scientific agenda, has made nanotechnology one of his scientific priorities, after all[/QUOTE]


I don't know if it relates, but I did get an email a couple weeks ago that said in Japan theyre making functional computers that are the size of a pen. Ill see if I can find it, put it up here.

[spdirty]

You will not be able to know what's ahead of you, until you have seen at least 4 pictures and read the explanation of what they are, our future is here, incredible!! ........ what an age we live in.

Amazing technology from Japan . . .


http://us.f546.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download/us/ShowLetter?box=Inbox&MsgId=6482_2775456_14878_1901_283644_0_325132_3947 30_2945061599&bodyPart=2&YY=2350&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=1&view=a&head=b&Idx=34
Look closely and guess what they could be...

http://us.f546.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download/us/ShowLetter?box=Inbox&MsgId=6482_2775456_14878_1901_283644_0_325132_3947 30_2945061599&bodyPart=3&YY=2350&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=1&view=a&head=b&Idx=34

Are they pens with cameras?


http://us.f546.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download/us/ShowLetter?box=Inbox&MsgId=6482_2775456_14878_1901_283644_0_325132_3947 30_2945061599&bodyPart=4&YY=2350&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=1&view=a&head=b&Idx=34

Any wild guesses? No clue yet?

Ladies and gentlemen... congratulations!
You've just looked into the future... yep that's right!
You've just seen something that will replace your PC in the near future.

Here is how it works:

http://us.f546.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download/us/ShowLetter?box=Inbox&MsgId=6482_2775456_14878_1901_283644_0_325132_3947 30_2945061599&bodyPart=5&YY=2350&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=1&view=a&head=b&Idx=34
In the revolution of miniature computers, scientists have made great developments with bluetooth technology...
This is the forthcoming computers you can carry within your pockets .

http://us.f546.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download/us/ShowLetter?box=Inbox&MsgId=6482_2775456_14878_1901_283644_0_325132_3947 30_2945061599&bodyPart=6&YY=2350&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=1&view=a&head=b&Idx=34
This 'pen sort of instrument' produces both the monitor as well as the keyboard on any flat surfaces from where you can carry out functions you would normally do on your desktop computer.

http://us.f546.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download/us/ShowLetter?box=Inbox&MsgId=6482_2775456_14878_1901_283644_0_325132_3947 30_2945061599&bodyPart=7&YY=2350&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=1&view=a&head=b&Idx=34



http://us.f546.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download/us/ShowLetter?box=Inbox&MsgId=6482_2775456_14878_1901_283644_0_325132_3947 30_2945061599&bodyPart=8&YY=2350&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=1&view=a&head=b&Idx=34

Can anyone say, 'Good-bye laptops!'
Looks like our computers are out of date... again!!!

[spdirty]

does that relate to nanotechnology? I really dont know.

[Old Dude]

It's worse than I thought ...

http://www.news.wisc.edu/14773

The catch for Americans with strong religious convictions, Scheufele believes, is that nanotechnology, biotechnology and stem cell research are lumped together as means to enhance human qualities. In short, researchers are viewed as "playing God" when they create materials that do not occur in nature, especially where nanotechnology and biotechnology intertwine, says Scheufele.

He conducted the U.S. survey with Arizona State University (ASU) colleague Elizabeth Corley under the auspices of the National Science Foundation-funded Center for Nanotechnology in Society at ASU.

The moral qualms people of faith express about nanotechnology is not a question of ignorance of the technology, says Scheufele, explaining that survey respondents are well-informed about nanotechnology and its potential benefits.

"They still oppose it," he says. "They are rejecting it based on religious beliefs. The issue isn't about informing these people. They are informed."

[alkemical]

I have a thread in the OT section about self cleaning fabrics - what's wrong with that?

[cutthemdown]

people need to watch more Star Trek

[alkemical]

I need to start reprinting bibles with changes to support nano-tech, etc.

****, God is in FAVOR of cloning. What did he do? He took adam's RIB and made eve?!

[Bronco Jamus]

It's worse than I thought ...

http://www.news.wisc.edu/14773

The catch for Americans with strong religious convictions, Scheufele believes, is that nanotechnology, biotechnology and stem cell research are lumped together as means to enhance human qualities. In short, researchers are viewed as "playing God" when they create materials that do not occur in nature, especially where nanotechnology and biotechnology intertwine, says Scheufele.

He conducted the U.S. survey with Arizona State University (ASU) colleague Elizabeth Corley under the auspices of the National Science Foundation-funded Center for Nanotechnology in Society at ASU.

The moral qualms people of faith express about nanotechnology is not a question of ignorance of the technology, says Scheufele, explaining that survey respondents are well-informed about nanotechnology and its potential benefits.

"They still oppose it," he says. "They are rejecting it based on religious beliefs. The issue isn't about informing these people. They are informed."


Playing God is a realistic reason to practice caution. It's not the technology itself, it's how people will use it. It is man's propensity to sin and do evil onto others. Even when people think they are doing good, perhaps the outcome could lead to suffering of others. That's ultimately the initial mistrust with regard to human biotechnology.

[TheDave]

Playing God is a realistic reason to practice caution. It's not the technology itself, it's how people will use it. It is man's propensity to sin and do evil onto others. Even when people think they are doing good, perhaps the outcome could lead to suffering of others. That's ultimately the initial mistrust with regard to human biotechnology.


Playing God is an excuse... nothing more. Open heart surgery was was demonised for the same reasons. Now it is common place. In all sincerity, I'm having trouble thinking of a recent medical break through that couldn't come under the crticism of "Playing God"

[elsid13]

We live with in country full of ****ing moron. No wonder we're having trouble keeping our technology and scientific edge. And the worse part is the morons are outbreeding us.

[Old Dude]

I don't think we are anywhere close to playing God.

Recent estimates suggest that malnutrition (measured as poor anthropometric status) is associated with about 50% of all deaths among children.

Among infectious diseases, lower respiratory infections are the leading cause of mortality overall and a primary cause of death for children under age five. Most of these deaths occur in developing countries where children's immune systems are often already weakened by malnutrition and other diseases. Pneumonia, primarily a bacterial infection of the lungs, is the most serious of the lower respiratory infections, despite the fact that it can usually be effectively treated with antibiotics, if they are available and affordable.

Diarrhea is a leading cause of childhood morbidity and mortality in developing countries. It is caused by ingesting certain bacteria, viruses or parasites present in water or food, and can be spread by utensils, hands or flies. Diarrheal disease causes considerable dehydration, which may quickly lead to death when not promptly treated.

Cholera, one of the most severe diarrheal diseases, is a significant cause of illness and death in developing countries. An acute bacterial infection of the intestine, cholera is spread the consumption of contaminated food or water. Cholera symptoms include acute watery diarrhea and vomiting, which can result in severe dehydration and rapidly lead to death. Other diarrheal disease pathogens include rotavirus, escherichia coli, salmonella, shigella and giardia.

Tuberculosis kills nearly 2 million people every year, more than 90 percent of whom live in developing countries.

Malaria is a leading killer of children under five and a major contributor to adult morbidity in sub-Saharan Africa. More than 300 million cases and more than one million deaths occur each year. An estimated 10,000 women and 200,000 infants die annually due to malaria infection, and severe malarial anemia accounts for more than half of these deaths.

Despite the availability of effective vaccines, measles is still a major childhood killer in developing countries. Children account for more than 50 percent of measles deaths annually, and the disease is responsible for 4 percent of the total deaths of children each year.

http://www.globalhealth.org/view_top.php3?id=228

[Bronco Jamus]

Playing God is an excuse... nothing more. Open heart surgery was was demonised for the same reasons. Now it is common place. In all sincerity, I'm having trouble thinking of a recent medical break through that couldn't come under the crticism of "Playing God"

I thought of that as well after my post. It still stands to reason to be cautious. While there are certain benefits from nanobiology, what are the ways it could be misused? What kind of horrors could be unleashed on the populace via nanobiology? Would we better off? Who knows.

[TheDave]

I thought of that as well after my post. It still stands to reason to be cautious. While there are certain benefits from nanobiology, what are the ways it could be misused? What kind of horrors could be unleashed on the populace via nanobiology? Would we better off? Who knows.

That's fair... I have no problem with taking a cautious approach to technology. I just get my feathers ruffled when I see sweeping moral statements attached to tech that few of us truly understand.

[alkemical]

That's fair... I have nop problem with taking a cautious approach to technology. I just get my feathers ruffled when I see sweeping moral statements attached to tech that few of us truly understand.


Heh, "it's god's will" always works. ;)

[Denver Crush]

So which of you will step up to being implanted first? I am all for scientific breakthroughs and new technology, but I have to say it is kind of scary to think about what someone with the wrong motivations can do with said technology. We shall see I guess.

[Hotrod]

I think its the devil. This is a slippery slope of potential evil. Mark my words nanowhatchamacallit will be our end.

[alkemical]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo

Grey goo is a hypothetical end-of-the-world scenario involving molecular nanotechnology in which out-of-control self-replicating robots consume all living matter on Earth while building more of themselves (a scenario known as ecophagy).

The term "grey goo" is usually used in a science fiction or popular-press context. In the worst postulated scenarios (requiring large, space-capable machines), matter beyond Earth would also be turned into goo (with "goo" meaning a large mass of replicating nanomachines lacking large-scale structure, which may or may not actually appear goo-like). The disaster is posited to result from a deliberate doomsday device, or from an accidental mutation in a self-replicating nanomachine used for other purposes, but designed to operate in a natural environment.

[Rohirrim]

What science REALLY, REALLY, REALLY needs is people like Carl Sagan who can be the bridge between advanced science and non-scientists. There's no such thing as a polymath anymore. Maybe back in Da Vinci's day, somebody could basically know everything there was to know in every field. Not anymore. The sciences need salesmen.

[theAPAOps5]

I've been watching the re-airings of Carl Sagans TV show on the Science Channel. They are awesome.

[Hotrod]

I think I need a new username

fishing has simply become to damn hard with this username :)

[Old Dude]

Grey goo isn't considered that much of an issue anymore. If you really want to consider the full risks, here's a list:

http://www.crnano.org/dangers.htm

That doesn't change the main point, though. Any increase in technology will eventually carry with it a greater capacity for doing good or causing harm.

But what makes it inherently "morally unacceptable" for mankind to have more efficient tools?

[alkemical]

myeah

[Bronco Bob]

It's worse than I thought ...

http://www.news.wisc.edu/14773

[I]The catch for Americans with strong religious convictions, Scheufele believes, is that nanotechnology, biotechnology and stem cell research are lumped together as means to enhance human qualities. In short, researchers are viewed as "playing God" when they create materials that do not occur in nature, especially where nanotechnology and biotechnology intertwine, says Scheufele.



So basically man was playing God when he combined tin and copper together
to create bronze in 3,500 BC. Because bronze is a material that doesn't occur
in nature either.

[Bronco Bob]

Playing God is a realistic reason to practice caution. It's not the technology itself, it's how people will use it. It is man's propensity to sin and do evil onto others. Even when people think they are doing good, perhaps the outcome could lead to suffering of others. That's ultimately the initial mistrust with regard to human biotechnology.

Such as the difference between using bronze to make a sword and using
bronze to make agricultural tools?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Uneducated. That is all.

It makes no difference where their opposition comes from, they are uneducated on the matter. Just as the author of this thread is uneducated as to why these uneducated people would be opposed to nanotech, and just as most of us in the human race show our uneducation in a variety of different subjects and fashions.

People are frustrating, but we arent any better than they are because of a superior knowledge of nanotech (which I highly doubt...none of us here hold an advanced degree in the nano,s).

[Bronco Bob]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo

Grey goo is a hypothetical end-of-the-world scenario involving molecular nanotechnology in which out-of-control self-replicating robots consume all living matter on Earth while building more of themselves (a scenario known as ecophagy).

The term "grey goo" is usually used in a science fiction or popular-press context. In the worst postulated scenarios (requiring large, space-capable machines), matter beyond Earth would also be turned into goo (with "goo" meaning a large mass of replicating nanomachines lacking large-scale structure, which may or may not actually appear goo-like). The disaster is posited to result from a deliberate doomsday device, or from an accidental mutation in a self-replicating nanomachine used for other purposes, but designed to operate in a natural environment.

It's the Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

In Star Trek: First Contact, the method of (adult) assimilation was depicted with the more efficient injection of nanoprobes into individuals. Borg nanoprobes are injected into the bloodstream of a victim by a number of tubules (usually two) that spring forth from the top of the hand (or some other extremity) of a Borg drone. The nanoprobes, each about the size of a human red blood cell (RBC), travel through the victim's bloodstream to various tissues and locations throughout the body and latch onto individual cells. The nanoprobes rewrite the cellular DNA, altering the victim's biochemistry, and eventually form larger, higher structures and networks within the body such as electrical pathways, processing and data storage nodes, and ultimately prosthetic devices that spring forth from the skin. Assimilation by nano-probe is depicted on-screen as being a fast acting process, with the victim's skin pigmentation turning grey with visible dark tracks forming where presumably blood vessels once existed.

[Old Dude]

Uneducated. That is all.

It makes no difference where their opposition comes from, they are uneducated on the matter. Just as the author of this thread is uneducated as to why these uneducated people would be opposed to nanotech, and just as most of us in the human race show our uneducation in a variety of different subjects and fashions.

People are frustrating, but we arent any better than they are because of a superior knowledge of nanotech (which I highly doubt...none of us here hold an advanced degree in the nano,s).


So let's see if I follow the logic here.

1. I don't understand why people would view advances in technology as inherently morally or religiously wrong.

2. Therefore, I have no standing to criticize those beliefs?


Doesn't that lead us to the conclusion that the nuttier and more illogical someone's belief about something turns out to be ... the less I understand how they formed that idea ... then the less right I have to question it?

[Smiling Assassin27]

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with nanotechnology, properly termed. And putting it in the same grouping as 'stem cell research' is either uninformed or just plain stupid.

Of course, Fundamentalists and many Evangelicals aren't exactly known for their critical thinking skills. Plus, this idea of blaming the 'moral majority' for slower computers gives the moral majority WAY too much credibility. This generalization is kinda foolish.

A big question for me is how were the survey questions phrased. That would almost surely impact the responses in some way. For instance, if the question was, 'Do you think nanotechnology can be abused to the detriment of society?', then I can see someone arguing that with some type of validity. The idea that nanotechnology is akin to an alteration of nature and so it should be explored with caution is plausible. The idea that it resembles stem cell research and so should not be pursued is not.

There are two separate questions here that many are instead seeing as one question--the moral question of the technology and the moral question of the application of that technology.

[TDmvp]

More than 70% of Americans surveyed say that nanotechnology is morally unacceptable.


http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2008/02/21/nanotechnology-is-morally-unacceptable/?mod=googlenews_wsj

could care less about morally .... it is just dangerous in general ... read the gray goo post ..... nanotech is nothing to take lightly ...

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

This Country is Completely Filled with Idiots

If the '04 elections didn't make that crystal clear, then nothing will.

[Smiling Assassin27]

could care less about morally .... it is just dangerous in general ... read the gray goo post ..... nanotech is nothing to take lightly ...

nanotechnology is already used in over 85 personal care products. so the application of the technology certainly can be dangerous, but it can also be useful. personally, i do care about the moral implications but, like most things scientific, nanotechnology seems intrinsically neutral.

[Smiling Assassin27]

This Country is Completely Filled with Idiots

If the '04 elections didn't make that crystal clear, then nothing will.

Yeah, cuz Kerry was CLEARLY the better candidate of the two...:~ohyah!:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Playing God is a realistic reason to practice caution. It's not the technology itself, it's how people will use it. It is man's propensity to sin and do evil onto others. Even when people think they are doing good, perhaps the outcome could lead to suffering of others. That's ultimately the initial mistrust with regard to human biotechnology.

:oyvey:

Speaking of "filled with idiots..."

[Smiling Assassin27]

:oyvey:

Speaking of "filled with idiots..."

wow, you sure tackled that post with a concise, thought-filled, and legitimate argument...:notworthy

[TDmvp]

This Country is Completely Filled with Idiots

If the '04 elections didn't make that crystal clear, then nothing will.

give it a rest already ... Kerry lost ... Dems voted for Bush as well , so i guess your own party is idiots ... check me out i'm a Dem ...

I HATE how you right wingers do things , and I CAN do it better , i have IDEAS , and PLANS , but i wont tell you about those till after i'm in office ... BUT trust me i have so many ideas that are soooo much better then the right , but i just can't tell you what they are ... Cause i know just what to do , but I'll keep it a secret ...

[TDmvp]

back on topic ..... my friend whos like a brain from raytheon says pollution could be a problem from it .... and maybe i was WRONG on gray goo being a big deal .... he said he douts anything we make being able to keep itself going that long to become a problem ....

[Bronco Jamus]

Such as the difference between using bronze to make a sword and using
bronze to make agricultural tools?

From a certain point of view, yes.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yeah, cuz Kerry was CLEARLY the better candidate of the two...:~ohyah!:

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see that now.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

give it a rest already ... Kerry lost ... Dems voted for Bush as well , so i guess your own party is idiots ... check me out i'm a Dem ...

Actually, the evidence that the election was stolen and that Kerry won is overwhelming.

Dems voted for Bush? How many? And does the percentage show that the party is "full" of idiots?

It never ceases to amaze me how Bush lemmings like you have the nerve to even show your faces here - let alone act all high and mighty.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

wow, you sure tackled that post with a concise, thought-filled, and legitimate argument...:notworthy

Thanks.

Watch me tackle "the dinosaurs are just a trick the atheists are playing to make me not believe in Jesus" next. :D

[Kaylore]

Yes people are stupid. You want to know why? They are all technophobic. Nanotechnology opens a huge array or possibilities to help mankind but people are reacting like seventeenth century puritans about the things.

A few months ago I posted an article about a cow that was bred to deliver skim milk (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=56838). Look at the amount of people that immediately assumed it was big problem, would cause cancer, etc. The cow was bred by natural means. There was no lab engineering going on. Despite this, look at the anxiety and distrust in that post. Every single vegetable in your produce section was engineered by cross breeding. I wonder how many people would say those vegetables are scary if they knew that. I mean the carrot was never orange until a bunch of monks bred them to have a higher amount of beta carotene.

Technology is good but people are scared of things that are new and things they don't understand and unfortunately tech qualifies in both categories.

/end rant

[Kaylore]

Ok, LABF is a troll. I mean trolling is hijacking thread topics, right? Does no one care that he turns every single thread into a Bush bashing session? I understand this is the forum to bash Bush in, but must we put up with his trolling in every thread regarless of topic? A little consistency on the part of the Mods would be appreciated.

[sirhcyennek81]

Wait...the world has idiots...no way.


:Broncos:

[24champ]

I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation don't have maps and I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and the Iraq and everywhere like such as and I believe that they should our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future for us.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Ok, LABF is a troll. I mean trolling is hijacking thread topics, right? Does no one care that he turns every single thread into a Bush bashing session? I understand this is the forum to bash Bush in, but must we put up with his trolling in every thread regarless of topic? A little consistency on the part of the Mods would be appreciated.

You're one of the idiots to whom the thread title refers.

I'm surprised you have the nerve to show your face around here (let alone act all high and mighty) after being wrong about, well, nearly everything.

[TDmvp]

You're one of the idiots to whom the thread title refers.

I'm surprised you have the nerve to show your face around here (let alone act all high and mighty) after being wrong about, well, nearly everything.

same $hit different thread ....

[theAPAOps5]

I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation don't have maps and I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and the Iraq and everywhere like such as and I believe that they should our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future for us.

Greatest response to a thread EVER. I mean its been just long enough to forget that little gem but soon enough to that it comes back quickly. I commend you and your spectacular use of the all time best Beauty Pageant moment.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

same $hit different thread ....

Kaylore slunk away from this forum when Bush's numbers started to nose dive.

Now, suddenly, he pops out of the woodwork and starts the same old crying to the mods as before whenever anyone mentions his hero dubya in the context of a political discussion.

I'm surprised at how far behind the curve he is - the rest of the bush lemmings gave that sort of thing up a long time ago.

[orangeatheist]

Ok, LABF is a troll. I mean trolling is hijacking thread topics, right? Does no one care that he turns every single thread into a Bush bashing session? I understand this is the forum to bash Bush in, but must we put up with his trolling in every thread regarless of topic? A little consistency on the part of the Mods would be appreciated.

Welcome to the party, pal.

Most of us have already figured out LABF is nothing but a troll. Why more folks haven't put that plagiarizer, leftist wacko on "ignore" is beyond me.

Now, I'm not a defender of Bush, but the LABFs on this board love to equate stupidity with the man. When told by the OP that this country is filled with idiots, the LABFs point to Bush's election as proof. What they do instead is prove themselves part of that percentage of morons. They didn't read the linked article, nor this thread to find the following:

From the article.

Our first reaction was that 70% of people must not know what nanotechnology is – President Bush, who has openly relied on moral views to shape his scientific agenda, has made nanotechnology one of his scientific priorities, after all

Jez, when will you people learn to put idiots like LABF on "ignore"?

(Queue the inevitable "OA, you and W*GS are Conservofacist-Bushlovin-guntotin-pickupdrivin-countrymusiclistenin apologists!")

[Kaylore]

I do have him on ignore, actually. I just get tired of him derailing every thread into a Bush Bashing session. I don't care if he hates Bush and this forum is certainly the best place to do that. However hijacking every thread to rip on someone is trolling.

Some of us believe that the universe of religion, politics and philosophy has more to offer than just complaining about George W. Bush.

[epicSocialism4tw]

So let's see if I follow the logic here.

1. I don't understand why people would view advances in technology as inherently morally or religiously wrong.

2. Therefore, I have no standing to criticize those beliefs?


Doesn't that lead us to the conclusion that the nuttier and more illogical someone's belief about something turns out to be ... the less I understand how they formed that idea ... then the less right I have to question it?


You are just passing public judgment on people who are different from yourself on an issue of which you are an authority of neither discipline or philosophy

[Old Dude]

You are just passing public judgment on people who are different from yourself on an issue of which you are an authority of neither discipline or philosophy

But it's perfectly okay for those people to pass public moral judgment on an entire field of technology?

[epicSocialism4tw]

But it's perfectly okay for those people to pass public moral judgment on an entire field of technology?

I think that you are confusing moral judgment with the explicit intention not to jump on the next big information fad.

[Cito Pelon]

It's worse than I thought ...

http://www.news.wisc.edu/14773

The catch for Americans with strong religious convictions, Scheufele believes, is that nanotechnology, biotechnology and stem cell research are lumped together as means to enhance human qualities. In short, researchers are viewed as "playing God" when they create materials that do not occur in nature, especially where nanotechnology and biotechnology intertwine, says Scheufele.

He conducted the U.S. survey with Arizona State University (ASU) colleague Elizabeth Corley under the auspices of the National Science Foundation-funded Center for Nanotechnology in Society at ASU.

The moral qualms people of faith express about nanotechnology is not a question of ignorance of the technology, says Scheufele, explaining that survey respondents are well-informed about nanotechnology and its potential benefits.

"They still oppose it," he says. "They are rejecting it based on religious beliefs. The issue isn't about informing these people. They are informed."

One of the biggest deals in human society is people get scared of anything new. It takes hundreds of years sometimes before what seems a no-brainer to you becomes mainstream.

[epicSocialism4tw]

One of the biggest deals in human society is people get scared of anything new. It takes hundreds of years sometimes before what seems a no-brainer to you becomes mainstream.

Yes...I'm sure that the "earth is flat" idea took a long time to take hold before it was replaced by "earth is round" and so forth.

Every generation has a tendancy to believe that what ever little bit of information it has seemingly uncovered is infallible, and we prove ourselves intellectually void time after time.

Forgive these people (or some of them) for grasping this little bit of wisdom.

[orangeatheist]

Some of us believe that the universe of religion, politics and philosophy has more to offer than just complaining about George W. Bush.

:thumbs:

[Old Dude]

I think that you are confusing moral judgment with the explicit intention not to jump on the next big information fad.

Actually, I think you are the one who is confused.

The survey indicated that these people had moral issues with nanotechnology. Not that they were reluctant to jump on an "information fad."

And, in any event, this isn't some recent "information fad." Drexler wrote "Engines of Creation" back in 1986 - more than 20 years ago. Today, nanotechnology is employed to one degree or another in the production of billions of dollars worth of goods ranging from antimicrobial refrigerators to drugs boosted by nanoparticles.

[elsid13]

I think that you are confusing moral judgment with the explicit intention not to jump on the next big information fad.

Fad??? A fad is the color of pair of jean that everyone want. This is major technology breakthrough that has possible to change/alter everything from how things are built and to how we heal ourselves.

[Kaylore]

Fad??? A fad is the color of pair of jean that everyone want. This is major technology breakthrough that has possible to change/alter everything from how things are built and to how we heal ourselves.

Actually Thomas Kuhn would argue (quite convincingly, I might add) that technological developments, particularly in certain fields, are indeed a fad and until they proven or disproven should only be regarded as such.

[elsid13]

Actually Thomas Kuhn would argue (quite convincingly, I might add) that technological developments, particularly in certain fields, are indeed a fad and until they proven or disproven should only be regarded as such.

You might make that case for consumer adoption mental model, but that is not the case in this technology/scientific field. Everyone agrees that this is where we're going, it just figure out the most cost effective way to get there.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Welcome to the party, pal.

Most of us have already figured out LABF is nothing but a troll. Why more folks haven't put that plagiarizer, leftist wacko on "ignore" is beyond me.

"Most of us," eh?

Who is this "us" for whom you pretend to speak?

The Young Republicans?

The Bush Youth?

This sort of bandwagon appeal simply signals that you don't feel confident enough to stand on your own two feet with your smear campaign and bogus accusations.


Now, I'm not a defender of Bush....

:rofl:

Good one!



but the LABFs on this board love to equate stupidity with the man.

Well, no sh*t, Sherlock!

I hate to break it to you, but your hero has given people more than enough good reasons to "equate stupidity" with him.




When told by the OP that this country is filled with idiots, the LABFs point to Bush's election as proof.

Once again, no sh*t!

If the '04 elections (and the disastrous consequences of a second Bush term) don't constitute proof in your mind that the country is full of idiots, then your head is much further up Bush's patoot than I thought.


Jez, when will you people learn to put idiots like LABF on "ignore"?


I would recommend putting ignorant clowns like you on ignore, but the entertainment value is simply too great to pass up. :giggle:

[epicSocialism4tw]

Actually, I think you are the one who is confused.
The survey indicated that these people had moral issues with nanotechnology. Not that they were reluctant to jump on an "information fad."
And, in any event, this isn't some recent "information fad." Drexler wrote "Engines of Creation" back in 1986 - more than 20 years ago. Today, nanotechnology is employed to one degree or another in the production of billions of dollars worth of goods ranging from antimicrobial refrigerators to drugs boosted by nanoparticles.

There were once looms in every state in the Union too. Textile mills...steel plants...you get the drift. I dont blame a person one bit for being skeptical of new tech when juxtaposed against a 6000+ year old philosophy that has proven to be effective for generations, and has never relied on tech to be effective.

Just because it is new and there are prospects doesnt make it something that everyone should accept wholesale with bright smiles.

That is the very antithesis of wisdom, and the definition of folly...and that has nothing to do with nanotech itself.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I do have him on ignore, actually. I just get tired of him derailing every thread into a Bush Bashing session. I don't care if he hates Bush and this forum is certainly the best place to do that. However hijacking every thread to rip on someone is trolling.

In your mind, any mention of Bush - no matter how appropriate or how relevant to the discussion at hand - is "hijacking" or "trolling."

Your hero and his supporters are simply reaping what they've sown - and you simply aren't man enough to admit you were wrong and eat the plate of crow that's in front of you.

That's the real reason for your whining here.

Some of us believe that the universe of religion, politics and philosophy has more to offer than just complaining about George W. Bush.

Translation:

"Us GeeDubya supporters would like nothing more than for the rest of you to forget all about Bush and the last seven years. The survival of our 'movement' depends on putting as much distance as possible between ourselves and Bush, and you're not helping, LABF!"

[Old Dude]

There were once looms in every state in the Union too. Textile mills...steel plants...you get the drift. I dont blame a person one bit for being skeptical of new tech when juxtaposed against a 6000+ year old philosophy that has proven to be effective for generations, and has never relied on tech to be effective.

Yeah. We did really great for more than 6,000 years without electricity. Does that make electricity EVIL?


Just because it is new and there are prospects doesnt make it something that everyone should accept wholesale with bright smiles.

It seems like you are determined to argue something that's not at issue.

It's NOT that some people are cautious about technology. It's not a question of how effective it might prove to be. It's not a question of mere newness or uncertainty. It is that these people view it as MORALLY WRONG.

I don't know how I can spell it out any more clearly than that.


That is the very antithesis of wisdom, and the definition of folly...and that has nothing to do with nanotech itself.

No. It is the antithesis of wisdom for anyone to take the position that technological advance is inherently evil or morally wrong.

The nice thing is that there is nothing these fools can do to stop it. Even if the majority of people in this country are so blinded by religious dogma that they can't accept technological change, it will happen anyway. If not here, it will be in Europe or Asia where we experience our next industrial revolution ... and if that happens, we will be left in the technological dust.

[Kaylore]

The nice thing is that there is nothing these fools can do to stop it. Even if the majority of people in this country are so blinded by religious dogma that they can't accept technological change, it will happen anyway. If not here, it will be in Europe or Asia where we experience our next industrial revolution ... and if that happens, we will be left in the technological dust.
This isn't just religious people. 70% is a lot of people. There are a lot of left-wing greenies that are really into the au naturale scene and are immediately suspicious of anything "made by companies". They think anything scientific is something that hurts nature. In fact I'd wager that more of the haters are from that group than the "taking aspirin means you don't have faith in Jesus" crowd.

[Old Dude]

This isn't just religious people. 70% is a lot of people. There are a lot of left-wing greenies that are really into the au naturale scene and are immediately suspicious of anything "made by companies". They think anything scientific is something that hurts nature. In fact I'd wager that more of the haters are from that group than the "taking aspirin means you don't have faith in Jesus" crowd.

Good point.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/wrongness.jpg

[alkemical]

One of the biggest deals in human society is people get scared of anything new. It takes hundreds of years sometimes before what seems a no-brainer to you becomes mainstream.

About Two generations.

[Spider]

Colored TV be the work of the Devil ........put all kinds of crazy thinking in your head ....... Only reason man invented computers is man wouldnt have to work , computer do all the work .......and the world will end in 1984 , all the planets will be in a strait line the gravitational pull from Saturn and Venus will either rip the earth in 2 or pull us out of orbit and send us hurling to a cosmic death .....heard it all before

[Spider]

This isn't just religious people. 70% is a lot of people. There are a lot of left-wing greenies that are really into the au naturale scene and are immediately suspicious of anything "made by companies". They think anything scientific is something that hurts nature. In fact I'd wager that more of the haters are from that group than the "taking aspirin means you don't have faith in Jesus" crowd.

but 80% consider themselfs to believe in God ....... 10% of god squad thinks this nanothingy is a good idea

[Spider]

No I am not being a smart ass , Look back in the day People blamed Demons , had witch hunts , burning ,drowning , to find out if some woman was a witch .. today times are no different , we dont burn witches at the stake anymore ( open fire bans stopped this ) but we encounter something we dont understand still blame it on the devil , or demons ....... what we dont understand we label sinister ,Dr Evil going to rule the world .......

[elsid13]

No I am not being a smart ass , Look back in the day People blamed Demons , had witch hunts , burning ,drowning , to find out if some woman was a witch .. today times are no different , we dont burn witches at the stake anymore ( open fire bans stopped this ) but we encounter something we dont understand still blame it on the devil , or demons ....... what we dont understand we label sinister ,Dr Evil going to rule the world .......

Actually I do believe that it is ELSID is going to rule the world. Let make sure we get our facts straight.

[Spider]

Actually I do believe that it is ELSID is going to rule the world. Let make sure we get our facts straight.
LOL ....... if that is the case , I was just joking about the virgin thingy ;D

[elsid13]

LOL ....... if that is the case , I was just joking about the virgin thingy ;D

Does this mean I have to cancel your reservation into the Hotrod reeducation camp?

[DomCasual]

All I can think of when I hear the term "nanotechnology" is this: "Mork calling Orson. Come in, Orson! Nano! Nano!"

And if loving me a little Mork and Mindy is immoral, then I don't want to be moral! I think you hear me knocking, right?

But on one point, I agree - people really are kind of dumb.

[theAPAOps5]

I say screw these techno phobic people and lets go full bore into nanotech. If that sends me straight to hell then so be it. There are some people down there that I would like to meet and study or kick in the balls. I am a half glass full kind of guy!

[Spider]

Does this mean I have to cancel your reservation into the Hotrod reeducation camp?

YES