Pressure on Shanahan to make playoffs

[dragondawg]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7795802/Pressure-on-Shanahan-to-make-playoffs

[epicSocialism4tw]

I'm not so sure about that. This team is in the midst of rebuilding.

I think that Broncos fans understand that for the most part.

When we went with Cutler, it should have been obvious that the Broncos were preparing to take some steps back in the hope that they could take that one step the werent able to take.

[broncos loveI]

Now, they want "Mike" to make the playoffs. Jesus Christ the man made the playoffs in 01,03,04,05 -06( I will not count that because that was a bs loss).

This crap about Shanahan being fired , ticks me off.

[rovolution]

Shanny and Bowlen both understand that the rebuilding process will take time.


God i hate being blown out by the Chuggers. Atleast lets field a semi-competative team against them .

[NFLBRONCO]

I'm at the point where Shanny has to prove it. I have doubts he can really build a team. I often wonder where we'd be team wise right now if we built this team more through the draft then hitting FA so hard all these years. Even though as a fan I feel this way I think Bowlen understands that we are not ready to compete for SB and have made bad FA moves and need to make better choices. I think we need to spend more time looking at players in the draft and move forward. If Bowlen actually thought playoffs or bye bye Shanny in 08 he might as well of canned him this year. Unless we really bolster lines (we don't play rookie OL) I think playoffs in 08 will be a longshot AFC is tough.

[epicSocialism4tw]

We have some of the type of players it takes to win Superbowls.

Champ. Cutler. Marshall. Scheffler.

The problem is, all of those players are skill guys. We absolutely need improvement at the LOS. Not just improvement, but these guys need to be able to consistently dominate their opposition enough for Champ, Cut, Marshall to do their thing without having to pray for help.

[400HZ]

I hate it how every writer gives vastly different cap numbers. It should be legit public knowledge.

[yavoon]

We have some of the type of players it takes to win Superbowls.

Champ. Cutler. Marshall. Scheffler.

The problem is, all of those players are skill guys. We absolutely need improvement at the LOS. Not just improvement, but these guys need to be able to consistently dominate their opposition enough for Champ, Cut, Marshall to do their thing without having to pray for help.

I love scheff but how is an above avg receiving tight end "the type of player you need?" is he really going to start above graham? boy that'd suck for shannahan, graham on the bench.

[NFLBRONCO]

We have some of the type of players it takes to win Superbowls.

Champ. Cutler. Marshall. Scheffler.

The problem is, all of those players are skill guys. We absolutely need improvement at the LOS. Not just improvement, but these guys need to be able to consistently dominate their opposition enough for Champ, Cut, Marshall to do their thing without having to pray for help.

Yep I don't see how we can make major strides in 08 unless we bolster OL at least in FA. The OL guys we draft will sit a year.

[Bladerunner]

The cap situation as described in that article is interesting and sobering:

San Diego - $21 Mill in cap space
Oakland - $20 Mill in cap space
Kansas City - $18 Mill in cap space
Denver - $1 Mill in cap space

Now I know that the salary cap is easily manipulated, but the disparity between those numbers certainly carries a valid assertion that the Broncos are overspent on average talent compared to the rest of the division, particularly the Chargers.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I love scheff but how is an above avg receiving tight end "the type of player you need?" is he really going to start above graham? boy that'd suck for shannahan, graham on the bench.

He catches what Cut throws him and he gets downfield.

I'm not sold on Graham. He got the big bucks and we didnt see much for it. Maybe we will this year with some of the line back in tact, but our line was not very good last season and Graham was brought in to help that.

[NFLBRONCO]

The cap situation as described in that article is interesting and sobering:

San Diego - $21 Mill in cap space
Oakland - $20 Mill in cap space
Kansas City - $18 Mill in cap space
Denver - $1 Mill in cap space

Now I know that the salary cap is easily manipulated, but the disparity between those numbers certainly carries a valid assertion that the Broncos are overspent on average talent compared to the rest of the division, particularly the Chargers.

I thought we had ALOT more cap space 1 Mill seems real low.

[400HZ]

I thought we had ALOT more cap space 1 Mill seems real low.

This guy's numbers seem on the low side. I've seen the Chargers listed at 40 mil+ in other articles.

[yavoon]

He catches what Cut throws him and he gets downfield.

I'm not sold on Graham. He got the big bucks and we didnt see much for it. Maybe we will this year with some of the line back in tact, but our line was not very good last season and Graham was brought in to help that.

yah and scheff and cut like each other. but beyond that its very likely scheff is just average, we'll see I spose(looking at you jeb putzier). still though the political fallout of graham on the bench, oh the pain.

[epicSocialism4tw]

yah and scheff and cut like each other. but beyond that its very likely scheff is just average, we'll see I spose(looking at you jeb putzier). still though the political fallout of graham on the bench, oh the pain.

Scheff can get YAC and has good hands. He's more athletic than Putz.

[Kaylore]

Shanahan will be in trouble if this team doesn't get above .500 this year. That said, I think most people are going to write us off and we'll sneak up on some teams. The offense is going to be very potent - especially if we can get some help at tackle.

[epicSocialism4tw]

...also Scheff's "tendancy to get wicked-blown-up" is at a much lower level than Putz's.

[yavoon]

...also Scheff's "tendancy to get wicked-blown-up" is at a much lower level than Putz's.

haha

[rovolution]

Shanahan will be in trouble if this team doesn't get above .500 this year. That said, I think most people are going to write us off and we'll sneak up on some teams. The offense is going to be very potent - especially if we can get some help at tackle.


lets hope we have some better luck against the NFC South than we did the NFC North last season.

[epicSocialism4tw]

haha

He was fairly stiff and couldnt turn to avoid or absorb hits. Im sure that safeties all across the NFL couldnt wait to get a pop in on Putz.

[Taco John]

I think that I'm going to sell "You're fired Shanahan" pink slips here on the Mane. I think I could make a fortune from all of the people here who think that Shanahan has to prove anything to them.

[BroncoBuff]

Jesus Christ the man made the playoffs in 01,03,04,05-06 (I will not count that because that was a bs loss).

This crap about Shanahan being fired , ticks me off.
Yup, that's a crazy article ... it's sad to see national writers - who are responsible for dozens of such capsules - to mail it in so irresponsibly. Mike is under financial pressure, but I seriously doubt there's even one iota of job pressure. Maybe ... maybe ... Bowlen has broached the idea of a personnel man with clout, but I doubt it's even gone that far.

The article was dead-giveaway stupid right here:
the Broncos should consider choosing an interior lineman early in the draft.
Yeah, like the FIVE STARTERS we have now for just THREE SPOTS aren't enough already?! :~ohyah!:

FACT: Along with QB, CB and TE, we are all full up at G-C. Period.

[TDmvp]

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4880/awjeezre7.jpg

[eddie mac]

This guy's numbers seem on the low side. I've seen the Chargers listed at 40 mil+ in other articles.

He's way off on a lot of numbers and that includes the Chargers and Broncos. SD have around $40m mark whilst the Broncos had $17m in December. Since then they've only extended Stokley $3m cap hit in 08, have released Holdman $1m savings, Engelberger voided $1m savings and Lepsis retired, anywhere from $3m-$5m in savings.

Is it any wonder considering when you look at what info Fox have on their salary pages for 2007 for each team they've quoted 2006 numbers and tried to pass them off as 2007. That site is a joke.

[eddie mac]

I think that I'm going to sell "You're fired Shanahan" pink slips here on the Mane. I think I could make a fortune from all of the people here who think that Shanahan has to prove anything to them.

TJ. Shanahan has nothing whatsoever to prove as a coach but I'd be in the "Shanahan has everything to prove as a personnel evaluator", both on the field and on the sidelines. Some of the **** he's brought threw the Dove Valley doors via free agency and trades over the past few seasons have set this team back big-time. Either they're average players on huge money or decent players with off-field issues or coaches that just dont fit here.

This team has brought some turds in here since Rick left for the Texans.

[fontaine]

I disagree about the Broncos being in the middle of rebuilding.

We're two DTs, one LBer and one OT away from having a complete team.

If that's called rebuilding then the entire league falls into that category.

[SpringStein]

I disagree about the Broncos being in the middle of rebuilding.

We're two DTs, one LBer and one OT away from having a complete team.

If that's called rebuilding then the entire league falls into that category.

S? WR? maybe RB?

[fontaine]

S? WR? maybe RB?

At safety we've got Hamza, Fox, Lynch as starters plus Ferguson/Cargile as backups. There are plenty of decent option in free agency like Madieu Williams, Erik Coleman and comeone mentioned Crocker who could come in and play immediately.

Same with WRs. We need a reliable number 2 who has sure hands. We don't need an all out stud and there's plenty of those guys cheap in FA.

I don't see the problem with RB especially since the draft is supposed to be filled with pretty good talent at the top half of the draft and we always hit there.

[Meck77]

I'd be concerned if Shanny wasn't operating under pressure to get in the playoffs this year. He's running a billion dollar show and it's his job to first make the playoffs. After that it's his job to win the Superbowl. Any coach or player that can't operate under pressure should be doing something else.

Go big or go home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cmhargrove]

I hate to just go ad hominem when attacking a stupid article, but just look at the guy, nuff said. (he's an idiot)

[sirhcyennek81]

Isnt every coach under pressure to make the playoffs? Broncos need to pour talent into both lines. There is a reason Davis, Gary, Anderson, Portis and Bell cracked 1000 yards. Improved offensive line play means 7 goes up on the board more often than 3, which gives your defense a break, which plays into the Broncos scheme of speed and quickness over bulk and power. Easier to go after the QB and stop the run with a 7 or 14 point cushion.

:Broncos:

[dbfan4life]

I disagree about the Broncos being in the middle of rebuilding.

We're two DTs, one LBer and one OT away from having a complete team.

If that's called rebuilding then the entire league falls into that category.

I agree. I consider a team a in rebuilding mode to be like Miami or Atlanta; teams that are trying to fill many and major positions on their teams. We have many key pieces in place but are short a few. My questions is - What team does have every sinlge key position filled and every player they want? We have just as good a chance as anyone next year if we address the few deficiencies we have, mainly o and d lines.

[Inkana7]

What a ****ty article.

[Gcver2ver3]

S? WR? maybe RB?


and don't forget kick returner....punter...and a real blocking FB...

[Gcver2ver3]

I don't expect us to win the AFC West this upcoming season...

I'm willing to wait as long as we're building back up the right way...no more band aids...

But if by 2009 we're not competing...i'll have some real concerns about the direction we're going...

[kamakazi_kal]

It's a process........ you do the best you can to prepare your team and take it one game at a time to try and do something special.

:rofl:

[Drunk Monkey]

and don't forget kick returner....punter...and a real blocking FB...

Our return game was heading in the right direction towards the end of the season. I am satisfied with Martinez and Hall. We could do better but we have other pressing issues to deal with.

[NFLBRONCO]

I agree. I consider a team a in rebuilding mode to be like Miami or Atlanta; teams that are trying to fill many and major positions on their teams. We have many key pieces in place but are short a few. My questions is - What team does have every sinlge key position filled and every player they want? We have just as good a chance as anyone next year if we address the few deficiencies we have, mainly o and d lines.

Weak at DT LB S OT WR RB We need TALENT upgrades in these positions. We might not be as bad Miami Atl type teams but, still plenty of work needed. How long have we been trying to bolster DL FOREVER. We are rebuilding because we have gotten almost ZERO return in FA lately it has caused us to slip quite a bit. We need to bolster positions that aren't easy to fix DT OL WR.

[Atwater His Ass]

The biggest problem with this team, and about the only point in the article that is correct, is that we are now paying the price for poor drafts in the early part of this decade.

This team has attempted to aquire key talent throught FA because of miss after miss in the draft. When you draft better, you can then take less chances in the FA market and use what guys you do land to compliment your talent players you go through the draft.

We are headed in the right direction now though. Our last two drafts have been very good and if we can get another good draft this year it will go a long way to the development of this team. We need to ween ourselves off of big FA names (especially older, past their prime FA's) and try to only get guys at value that can contribute, aka guys like Holland.

For those of you pointing out holes at LB and S, yeah we do have some needs there. However, those needs start to look a lot less pressing if we can get some quality DT's. You'd be amazed how much better our entire defense would look with some good DT's in there. This is our number 1 need this off-season and is an area I except Shanny to hit hard on in the draft ala DE last year.

After DT is addressed, OT is our next area of concern. I don't think this is as big of a concern as DT however. Harris was drafted to play LT. It may be a year early for him, but his time is now and he needs to step up. Pears is barely servicable at RT so I'd look more for resoures there. Pears plays better at LT, so a one-season fix could be to put Pears at LT, Harris at RT, and draft a future T to replace Pears and add a FA for some veteran depth.

I'm confident in the ablitites of our interior lineman (Nalen, Hamilton, Holland, Myers, Kuper) and we have exceptional depth with those guys. I'm just as confident with our DE situation (Doom, Moss, Crowder, Ekuban, Engleberger) a good mix of young and old with situational guys for both run and pass defesne. Again, get some quality DT's and this group I think will really start to shine.

[Jason in LA]

I wonder if these writers actually follow these teams. The O line did have issues. But is that their biggest concern? Did the guy get a load of the Broncos run defense? It was painful to watch teams run at will on the Broncos. They need to address the front seven right away. An improved run defense will greatly improve the team. Run defense is by far the biggest area of concern.

[montrose]

The shame is that the Broncos could really use one more rebuilding season, that being a year to clear dead cap room and get more experience for the youngsters. They're so far away from being championship-caliber, this would be the perfect year to do it.

Unfortunately, I can see the pressure on Shanahan to win leading to another quick fix with a 9-7 record and 1st round playoff loss instead of building a winner for the long run.

[orinjkrush]

TJ. Shanahan has nothing whatsoever to prove as a coach but I'd be in the "Shanahan has everything to prove as a personnel evaluator", both on the field and on the sidelines. Some of the **** he's brought threw the Dove Valley doors via free agency and trades over the past few seasons have set this team back big-time. Either they're average players on huge money or decent players with off-field issues or coaches that just dont fit here.

This team has brought some turds in here since Rick left for the Texans.

I agree with the personnel evaluator comment. The one personnel evaluation weakness that has now become evident is: Scout. We need better scouts.
Then, there is that little thing about rotating DCs. Who was thinking what bringing in Bates' SYSTEM? what was that all about? talk about not being Bronco philosophy. Player selection is based on staff selection and that process could be upgraded.

[Atwater His Ass]

The question is, is it our scouts that are bad, or doesn Shanny just not listen to their input?

[Chris]

Can someone guarantee that Shanahan understands we should be rebuilding? I haven't read anything that supports this thought.

[orinjkrush]

The question is, is it our scouts that are bad, or doesn Shanny just not listen to their input?

Shanny is on record as saying he can't know everything about all these potential Broncos by himself and he RELIES on what his scouts are telling him.

I believe he shows this kind of management philosophy overall. it seems genuine.

[Merlin]

Considering some were arguing for better draft choice at the end of last season, and we are not ready to win it all next season...maybe we should just throw next season, get the first choice in the draft, and build a titan for 2009-2015







/SARCASM

[Gcver2ver3]

Our return game was heading in the right direction towards the end of the season. I am satisfied with Martinez and Hall. We could do better but we have other pressing issues to deal with.


no doubt....you're right

certainly not our biggest area of need...but i was just kind of addressing someone's remark that we were just a few players from being a complete team...

in that regard i think we have quite a few holes to fill in that respect...

kick returner to me is still a position i think we can improve in...

but we do have much bigger fish to fry...

[Beej]

http://imedia.foxsports.com/media01/images/Avatar/833200/01/20/MDAxNTMy70118_m.jpg

Hmmm, where have I seen that face before?....Oh yeah:

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nfl/players/2/6173.jpg

[Taco John]

TJ. Shanahan has nothing whatsoever to prove as a coach but I'd be in the "Shanahan has everything to prove as a personnel evaluator", both on the field and on the sidelines.



Ed McCaffrey, Rod Smith, Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Howard Griffith, Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, John Lynch, Champ Bailey, Al Wilson, DJ Williams, Dre Bly, Darrent Williams (RIP), Elvis Dumervil, Tatum Bell, and quite a few others might have something to say about this.

It's true that Shanahan has had his fair share of busts. But if he's such a terrible talent evaluator, why is it that he's experiencing his first losing season with the Broncos?

[Inkana7]

2nd Losing season. And technically, Rod was brought in by Wade. :D

[Meck77]

1999

[Taco John]

2nd Losing season. And technically, Rod was brought in by Wade. :D

You're right... We went 6-10 in 99.


And Wade did bring in Rod, but Shanahan is the one who kept with him, despite his propensity for the dropsies.

[Dudeskey]

I disagree about the Broncos being in the middle of rebuilding.

We're two DTs, one LBer and one OT away from having a complete team.

If that's called rebuilding then the entire league falls into that category.

Shoot, get the lines right and I'll be happy

[Taco John]

1999



In my defense, I remained on cloud 9 until at least mid-season 2000 after the back to back Superbowl wins... :)

[Inkana7]

Mhm. And started him after ditching Anthony Miller.

[Meck77]

In my defense, I remained on cloud 9 until at least mid-season 2000 after the back to back Superbowl wins... :)

I think Bowlen just got off cloud nine recently when he made a reference to tightening up his wallet on FAs.

We were all on cloud nine for different amounts of time.

The heat is on Shanny and I think it's a good thing. I'd say the bigger issue with Shanny is trying to keep the consistency of players and coaching around him. This team has become a revolving door of players/coaches who haven't gotten the job done but maybe we have some building blocks now so it seems. We'll see.

[BroncoBuff]

I think Bowlen just got off cloud nine recently when he made a reference to tightening up his wallet on FAs.
That development might just doom my Boss Bailey prediction ... :(

But we really don't need much, we're not losing a lot of guys. Maybe just four or five veteran FAs: an OT, DT, S, LB, and maybe a P or WR. That should be doable, especially if we save some space on Travis restructuring, Javon leaving town, and Rod retiring.

Anybody know how much the cap increases this year? We're about $1.2 million under now.

[24champ]

I wouldn't say that Shanny is in the hot seat, but the seat is getting pretty warm. Lets not forget we had some pretty embarrasing and all-time losses this past year.

[24champ]

That development might just doom my Boss Bailey prediction ... :(


What do you see in Boss Bailey? Other than the fact he is Champ's Brother?

[elsid13]

That development might just doom my Boss Bailey prediction ... :(

But we really don't need much, we're not losing a lot of guys. Maybe just four or five veteran FAs: an OT, DT, S, LB, and maybe a P or WR. That should be doable, especially if we save some space on Travis restructuring, Javon leaving town, and Rod retiring.

Anybody know how much the cap increases this year? We're about $1.2 million under now.

Denver is about 17 to 20 million dollars under the cap. The article was wrong. Eddie Mac has the correct numbers.

[BroncoBuff]

What do you see in Boss Bailey? Other than the fact he is Champ's Brother?
It's not what I see in him, it's what I'm predicting the team will do.

Last offseason when we signed Bly, I read some articles about he and Boss (they're very good friends) and read some of their agent's comments (they have the same agent), and I'm thinking it will happen. Actually, I like Nate Webster - I'm one of the few - but unless Boss gets some really big offers, he's coming here. We're gonna save big $$ losing Gold's contract and starting a cheap Winborn or a rookie at Will.

[eddie mac]

Ed McCaffrey, Rod Smith, Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Howard Griffith, Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, John Lynch, Champ Bailey, Al Wilson, DJ Williams, Dre Bly, Darrent Williams (RIP), Elvis Dumervil, Tatum Bell, and quite a few others might have something to say about this.

It's true that Shanahan has had his fair share of busts. But if he's such a terrible talent evaluator, why is it that he's experiencing his first losing season with the Broncos?

It's not only about talent albeit it's the major issue here it's about the type of player we are consistently bringing into to Dove Valley especially via free agency. For every star there's at least 5 bums. Look at the costly crap we brought in through the door over the past 2 seasons and the damage they've caused to the team. Javon Walker ($10m in bonuses paid last year), Travis Henry ($6m last season, another $6m this), Sam Adams ($2m), Simeon Rice ($3m). 2 of those turds are already gone. One will soon follow suit whilst the last one might hang on for another year if he bucks his ideas up and accepts less money.

It looks like we may have eventually got our drafting asses into gear but this organisation is still a disaster when it comes to evaluating current experienced NFL vets and bringing them in here via trade/free agency. Little simple things like paying a TE $30m to block in your backfield when that money could've been used on a DT or god forbid a decent OT. The man has his on-field priorities totally messed up and if he isn't careful he's gonna end up ****ing up the only chance this organisation has of going anywhere in the future under the guidance of No6.

[BroncoBuff]

Denver is about 17 to 20 million dollars under the cap. The article was wrong. Eddie Mac has the correct numbers.
Thanks sid, whew! I thought that was weird ...

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Shanahan looks dumb right now.

[TDmvp]

Shanahan looks dumb right now.

says the moron ...

[eddie mac]

Denver is about 17 to 20 million dollars under the cap. The article was wrong. Eddie Mac has the correct numbers.

At this present time there's quite a few factors that could mean the difference between being anywhere between $13m-$28m under the cap.

1. Those include the fact that Jay Cutler hit 2 performance incentives in 2007 which means he's owed $4.5m in bonus money. Under the CBA regulations though this can be deducted from the season's cap in which they hit i.e last year 2007 if Denver had enough cap room left and I think they did. So we'll see whether that additional $4.5m figures in this year or not.

2. Both Matt Lepsis and Rod Smith have not officially retired as of yet. They have both been placed on the retired/reserve list. Under CBA rules these players are not counted within the max 80 players any team is allowed in the offseason. Neither do they count against the current cap until they either officially retire or they resume playing. So my understanding is that neither Matt Lepsis' $7.0m cap figure for 2008 or Rod Smith's $3.5m cap figure currently count against the cap so that's another $10.5m in available space.

These are only estimates going by guidelines under the CBA.

[BroncoBuff]

Thanks eddie mac, good info.


What do we save with Gold's contract expiring?

If Travis Henry re-works his deal ... we don't lose on the cap for that, do we? After all, if a player volunarily restructures, the old contract bonuses and cap debts should be wiped away and replaced by the new ones, right?

[eddie mac]

Thanks eddie mac, good info.


What do we save with Gold's contract expiring?

If Travis Henry re-works his deal ... we don't lose on the cap for that, do we? After all, if a player volunarily restructures, the old contract bonuses and cap debts should be wiped away and replaced by the new ones, right?

Gold has 2 years left BB with about $3m-$4m in outstanding signing bonuses. His cap this year is anywhere between $4.9m and $5.4m depending where you read. Trading/cutting Gold would save about $1m-$2m or thereabouts.

Travis already got a $6m SB last year so that's split in 5 throughout the remaining years of the contract at $1.2m a year. His cap number is approx $3.4m this year or thereabouts. There's not much they can do to that deal to be honest maybe reduce the cap by about $1m-$1.5m if they make him give up the 2nd tiered bonus. If the Broncos were to consider cutting him without him having broken any substance abuse regulations we're looking at a minimum of $7.3m accelerating onto the cap and as much as $10.8m depending where you read.

[SoCalBronco]

Make the playoffs?

That's funny stuff.

No...if we merely made the playoffs next year, that would be grounds to bring in a personnel guy with power. Merely making the playoffs alone is insufficient. A playoff victory is required.

That we will not have any money to spend because ownership has put its foot down and also because we're taking (accelerated) hits now to clear us long term of various albatrosses is no excuse. You can't rely on the effects of your mistake as a reason to get more slack, that's absurd on its face and allowing leeway due to that would only incentivize further rash behavior and irrational risk taking. I don't think we have really felt the value of the dollar....we're like a little rich kid who can go to the candy store and get whatever he wants cause his daddy will buy it for him. We need to be more like the kid who savors the oppurtunity to just get anything. You've got to study harder and look at your philosophy and process of acquisition and fix it. If it requires resorting to independent review to supplement the internal evaluations that go on, go for it (i.e. reviewing player performance and FA targets film by people completely outside of the organization, i.e. Ron Wolf, Gil Brandt etc.) then do it. Whatever is required do it, I dont care who's ego is bruised or who gets embarassed. There's no excuses. I don't care that there are holes all over the team. You've had two years where nothing has been produced. NOTHING. That was your free pass. I dont want to hear we are rebuilding, it is IRRELEVANT whether we are not, its completely irrelevant to the expectations. Don't waste tens of millions for **** in two years and then come here after two years and tell me "oh this is going to be a process", you blew your ****ing wad. What process? What were we doing the last two years then? No more additional leeway. **** no. You will do it with hand tied behind your back, I don't care. No more slack. That there are more problems now doesn't change anything. There needs to be some production now, while simultaneously keeping our belts tight and cleaning up our future financials. It is very difficult to win a playoff game with a hand tied behind your back like that, but no slack should be given because it hasnt been earned.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'm not so sure about that. This team is in the midst of rebuilding.
I think that Broncos fans understand that for the most part.
When we went with Cutler, it should have been obvious that the Broncos were preparing to take some steps back in the hope that they could take that one step the werent able to take.WTF do you even continue to masquerade as a Bronco fan here for? We all know you hate Cutler and idolize Vince Young.

[broncos loveI]

Make the playoffs?

That's funny stuff.

No...if we merely made the playoffs next year, that would be grounds to bring in a personnel guy with power. Merely making the playoffs alone is insufficient. A playoff victory is required.

That we will not have any money to spend because ownership has put its foot down and also because we're taking (accelerated) hits now to clear us long term of various albatrosses is no excuse. You can't rely on the effects of your mistake as a reason to get more slack, that's absurd on its face and allowing leeway due to that would only incentivize further rash behavior and irrational risk taking. I don't think we have really felt the value of the dollar....we're like a little rich kid who can go to the candy store and get whatever he wants cause his daddy will buy it for him. We need to be more like the kid who savors the oppurtunity to just get anything. You've got to study harder and look at your philosophy and process of acquisition and fix it. If it requires resorting to independent review to supplement the internal evaluations that go on, go for it (i.e. reviewing player performance and FA targets film by people completely outside of the organization, i.e. Ron Wolf, Gil Brandt etc.) then do it. Whatever is required do it, I dont care who's ego is bruised or who gets embarassed. There's no excuses. I don't care that there are holes all over the team. You've had two years where nothing has been produced. NOTHING. That was your free pass. I dont want to hear we are rebuilding, it is IRRELEVANT whether we are not, its completely irrelevant to the expectations. Don't waste tens of millions for **** in two years and then come here after two years and tell me "oh this is going to be a process", you blew your ****ing wad. What process? What were we doing the last two years then? No more additional leeway. **** no. You will do it with hand tied behind your back, I don't care. No more slack. That there are more problems now doesn't change anything. There needs to be some production now, while simultaneously keeping our belts tight and cleaning up our future financials. It is very difficult to win a playoff game with a hand tied behind your back like that, but no slack should be given because it hasnt been earned.

So, in other words Shanny needs to be fired if he doesn't produce this year.

[SoCalBronco]

So, in other words Shanny needs to be fired if he doesn't produce this year.

No, not as HC....he is an outstanding football coach. The Broncos have been the inspiration for alot of innovation in offensive football that has trickled its way down in the last dozen years (See e.g. the shallow crossing series that became a critical part of Mike Leach/Hal Mumme/Tony Franklin's "Air Raid" offense that they got from Shanahan, Steve Spurrier's comments about the inspiration for his empty package coming from the Broncos, the well known ZBS etc.). Shanahan is a top gameplanner and a great tactician. But the GM side could be improved a great deal. I don't doubt that there is great effort being put into improvement there (and we may have seen some fruits from that labor in one particular aspect of talent acquisition the last few years, albeit thats not enough), but the results are more important than just the effort.

[broncos loveI]

No, not as HC....he is an outstanding football coach. The Broncos have been the inspiration for alot of innovation in offensive football that has trickled its way down in the last dozen years (See e.g. the shallow crossing series that became a critical part of Mike Leach/Hal Mumme/Tony Franklin's "Air Raid" offense that they got from Shanahan, Steve Spurrier's comments about the inspiration for his empty package coming from the Broncos, the well known ZBS etc.). Shanahan is a top gameplanner and a great tactician. But the GM side could be improved a great deal. I don't doubt that there is great effort being put into improvement there (and we may have seen some fruits from that labor in one particular aspect of the FO the last few years, albeit thats not enough), but the results are more important than just the effort.

I agree... The broncos need a real Gm that is not connected to Shanahan. Let Coach Shanny coach, and let the GM have full control of bringing the right players in... Pat Bowlen should have come to this conclusion a long time ago Imo

[montrose]

I agree... The broncos need a real Gm that is not connected to Shanahan. Let Coach Shanny coach, and let the GM have full control of bringing the right players in... Pat Bowlen should have come to this conclusion a long time ago Imo

I hear this request often, but its not very likely. Shanahan has stated on numerous occasions that following his tenure in Oakland, he'd never take a HC job without control over personnel. If Bowlen were to ask Shanny to take on a coaching role only, I wouldn't be surprised if Shanny declined and had a job with complete control on another NFL team within 24 hours. If Bowlen truly has put his foot down on spending, it will be interesting to see what type of team takes the field next season.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

No, not as HC....he is an outstanding football coach. .This is looking more questionable as each year passes.

[lex]

This is looking more questionable as each year passes.

Not really. He's just undermined himself with his own personnel choices. But 'X' & 'O' wise he is elite.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Not really. He's just undermined himself with his own personnel choices. But 'X' & 'O' wise he is elite.Uh, that's part of the whole picture. I'd say he has one, maybe two more years at best and then he's gone.

[lex]

Uh, that's part of the whole picture. I'd say he has one, maybe two more years at best and then he's gone.

I was responding to the particular part you were addressing.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I was responding to the particular part you were addressing.And I was responding likewise.

[Meck77]

What's with this talk about pressure to make the playoffs? It's his freakin job to get this team in the playoffs. When people don't do their jobs they get fired. Shanny is out of get out of jail free cards.

[lex]

And I was responding likewise.

No, you spoke in broader terms. You responded to the part where he was talking about Shanahan the coach (not personnel guy) by saying thats debateable. I disputed your assertion that he's not a good 'x'&'o' guy by also pointing out that he has been undone by being the personnel guy, to which you responded that personnel decisions is part of it. Youve gone from disputing Shanahans merit as a strategist/tactician to giving ground on that and attacking Shanahan the personnel guy and are now trying to play it off like youve been saying the same thing the whole time.

[lex]

What's with this talk about pressure to make the playoffs? It's his freakin job to get this team in the playoffs. When people don't do their jobs they get fired. Shanny is out of get out of jail free cards.

But he still has several Skip and Draw Four cards.

[24champ]

No, not as HC....he is an outstanding football coach. The Broncos have been the inspiration for alot of innovation in offensive football that has trickled its way down in the last dozen years (See e.g. the shallow crossing series that became a critical part of Mike Leach/Hal Mumme/Tony Franklin's "Air Raid" offense that they got from Shanahan, Steve Spurrier's comments about the inspiration for his empty package coming from the Broncos, the well known ZBS etc.). Shanahan is a top gameplanner and a great tactician. But the GM side could be improved a great deal. I don't doubt that there is great effort being put into improvement there (and we may have seen some fruits from that labor in one particular aspect of talent acquisition the last few years, albeit thats not enough), but the results are more important than just the effort.

Well we all know that won't happen. The day Shanny gives up his authority to override all personnel decisions, is the day he will no longer be with the Broncos. Thus leaving us with two holes to fill, which will set the franchise back pretty good. I really really wish the Texans would have left our personnel alone so we could still have Rick Smith and Kubes to run things should Shanny retire or leave.