Bar Stool Economics

[ak1971]

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all
ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes,
it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the
arrangement, until on day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you
are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost
of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80".

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so
the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could
they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair
share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they
subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the
sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's
bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the
amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men
began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20, "declared the sixth man. He
pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar,
too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back
when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine
sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the
bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough
money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how
our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the
most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for
being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they
might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat
friendlier.

[W*GS]

Thanks. This story ought to be most instructive to some OMers, but they'd prefer to wallow in their ignorance and classist rhetoric.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

W*GS is the ignorant one if he doesn't find any problems with the analogy.

[Spider]

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all
ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes,
it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the
arrangement, until on day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you
are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost
of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80".

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so
the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could
they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair
share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they
subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the
sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's
bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the
amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men
began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20, "declared the sixth man. He
pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar,
too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back
when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine
sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the
bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough
money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how
our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the
most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for
being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they
might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat
friendlier.

ROFL! ..... I got one Ronald McDonald was arrested and thrown in Jail on 50 K bond for shoving his quarter pounder into a wendys hot and juicy

[W*GS]

W*GS is the ignorant one if he doesn't find any problems with the analogy.

Tell me what they are.

Oh wait - it's important that 2 of the 4 non-beer-payers are Mexicans, right?

[Spider]

Tell me what they are.

Oh wait - it's important that 2 of the 4 non-beer-payers are Mexicans, right?

well the 2 shouldnt be there drinking ot begin with , if you cant afford it , you shouldnt do it .... and the retards that thought paying for beer via a tax system clearly didnt use the business deductions , you know it all is tax deductible if they do it right ....
and finally the ones buying could have used the non payers as a tax deduction .....

[Spider]

And last .. the ones that can afford the beer got their money off of the labor of the ones that cant ........

[W*GS]

So the 10th guy was lucky the other 9 didn't kill him, eh? He oughta pay that $59 just to keep himself alive and the murderous intentions of the others at bay...

[Spider]

So the 10th guy was lucky the other 9 didn't kill him, eh? He oughta pay that $59 just to keep himself alive and the murderous intentions of the others at bay...

Unless he follows the W*GS option and is armed to the teeth ........... fully auto AK 47 should get him out of it

[Taco John]

This analogy isn't valid.

One thing that it's missing is that the people who are paying the least should be drinking the most, while the people paying the most drinking the least.

[Spider]

This analogy isn't valid.

One thing that it's missing is that the people who are paying the least should be drinking the most, while the people paying the most drinking the least.

LOL are you saying that poor people get the most of out society ? While the rich do without ? is this what you are saying

[rugbythug]

LOL are you saying that poor people get the most of out society ? While the rich do without ? is this what you are saying


Compared to work put in? Very much so. The biggest problem facing Americas poor is Obesity.

[rugbythug]

And last .. the ones that can afford the beer got their money off of the labor of the ones that cant ........

When making money labor is the thing with the least value. You should know this when you are trying to hire someone in your trucking, much easier to hire labor than it is knowledge.

[Taco John]

LOL are you saying that poor people get the most of out society ? While the rich do without ? is this what you are saying

Out of society? I don't follow.

I'm talking about services. Rich people pay for the most, but receive the least services (or in the analogy, it would be beer).

[Taco John]

For what it's worth, rich people get plenty of benefits from government that they don't deserve. These are usually bad laws put in by republicans to react to bad laws enacted by democrats.

[Rohirrim]

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
-H. L. Mencken

[Spider]

Compared to work put in? Very much so. The biggest problem facing Americas poor is Obesity.

So starve the poor , rich people are not fat ....... ROFL!
what a joke

[Spider]

Out of society? I don't follow.

I'm talking about services. Rich people pay for the most, but receive the least services (or in the analogy, it would be beer).

Bull**** ..... Simple as that , even in the court of Law the rich are favored .....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Now I understand why it was so important to people who voted for Bush that he was the kind of guy they could sit down and have a beer with. ;)

[rugbythug]

So starve the poor , rich people are not fat ....... ROFL!
what a joke

Your assertion is that the poor in the country do not have enough... Well food is not one of the things they don't have enough of. Me personally I don't want to change anything when it comes to welfare. We don't need anymore of it nor do we need any less.

[Spider]

Your assertion is that the poor in the country do not have enough... Well food is not one of the things they don't have enough of. Me personally I don't want to change anything when it comes to welfare. We don't need anymore of it nor do we need any less.

we agree , on more and less ;D
we dont need more unless it is warrented , I have never ever advocating a person that can work , to sit around play video games and go on welfare ...

[rugbythug]

we agree , on more and less ;D
we dont need more unless it is warrented , I have never ever advocating a person that can work , to sit around play video games and go on welfare ...

we agree, I must need to change my position then :~ohyah!:

[Spider]

we agree, I must need to change my position then :~ohyah!:

;D soon I will have you seeing the light

[Taco John]

Bull**** ..... Simple as that , even in the court of Law the rich are favored .....


I agree. Then it's settled. The problem is government.

[Taco John]

“A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”

-Thomas Jefferson

[Spider]

I agree. Then it's settled. The problem is government.

Not government , the turds we have in Government

[elsid13]

I am just wondering were the 10th guy's accountant and tax attorney are to ensure he gets his drink for free? and the 5th,6th and 7th paying him to be there

[W*GS]

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
-H. L. Mencken

Mencken is perfectly correct - so why do left-wingers always propose their one-size-fits-all "solution" of "increase State power" when presented with all manner of problems?

[Rohirrim]

Mencken is perfectly correct - so why do left-wingers always propose their one-size-fits-all "solution" of "increase State power" when presented with all manner of problems?

Which makes them different from the Right how?

[Rohirrim]

“A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”

-Thomas Jefferson

I notice he said, "...the mouth of labor..." and not the "mouth of the capitalist." He had a different view about those who sit on their asses while the largesse from daddy's investments come rolling in.

[W*GS]

Which makes them different from the Right how?

Why do you think I've always said that left-wingers and right-wingers are two sides of the same state-worshipping coin?

[Rohirrim]

Why do you think I've always said that left-wingers and right-wingers are two sides of the same state-worshipping coin?

And yet, you say you are not opposed to the existence of a state. It just must be the perfect state, eh?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I notice he said, "...the mouth of labor..." and not the "mouth of the capitalist." He had a different view about those who sit on their asses while the largesse from daddy's investments come rolling in.

Yep.

You gotta wonder what sort of stake W*GS could possibly have in defending plutocrats and silver spooners whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower.

What's in it for him?

[Spider]

Just wow at some peoples ignorence of out tax system , I am no tax expert , but I have a pretty fair understanding of the system .... Here is a simple over look of our overall tax code Idea ...... More in the middle class , they are the backbone , they should carry the brunt of cost , more of them so it would be easier to spread out the cost , the poor dont pay , and the rich should pay rate even though there isnt that many of them .Then Republicans say hey the rich should get even more of a tax cut cause they invest , they work their money , Democrats come along and say no the Rich need ot pay what they was paing before ..Everyone screams Tax increase , the rich will suffer .... to you ****ers I say ....... you are total ****ing idiots

[W*GS]

I notice he said, "...the mouth of labor..." and not the "mouth of the capitalist." He had a different view about those who sit on their asses while the largesse from daddy's investments come rolling in.

Why do you define "capitalist" as "those who sit on their asses while the largesse from daddy's investments come rolling in"?

Where do the small business owners who work 100-hour weeks fit in to your classist dogma?

[W*GS]

You gotta wonder what sort of stake W*GS could possibly have in defending plutocrats and silver spooners whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower.

What's in it for him?

Watching you make an ass of yourself with your class-warfare rhetoric is enough reward for me.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Didn't think I'd get a straight answer.

[Spider]

Why do you define "capitalist" as "those who sit on their asses while the largesse from daddy's investments come rolling in"?

Where do the small business owners who work 100-hour weeks fit in to your classist dogma?

LOL , pretty abvious , 100 hour weeks , they would be labor .... Jet setting and country clubbing wouldnt be .......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Why do you define "capitalist" as "those who sit on their asses while the largesse from daddy's investments come rolling in"?

He didn't!

Either your reading comprehension game is off, or you're just setting up another straw man.

[W*GS]

Didn't think I'd get a straight answer.

You asked (as per usual) a stupid question.

[Taco John]

Not government , the turds we have in Government

That's the only kind you get in government...

[Taco John]

Just wow at some peoples ignorence of out tax system , I am no tax expert , but I have a pretty fair understanding of the system .... Here is a simple over look of our overall tax code Idea ...... More in the middle class , they are the backbone , they should carry the brunt of cost , more of them so it would be easier to spread out the cost , the poor dont pay , and the rich should pay rate even though there isnt that many of them .Then Republicans say hey the rich should get even more of a tax cut cause they invest , they work their money , Democrats come along and say no the Rich need ot pay what they was paing before ..Everyone screams Tax increase , the rich will suffer .... to you ****ers I say ....... you are total ****ing idiots



The average American works for free until about the middle of July to pay for the cost of government.

[W*GS]

The average American works for free until about the middle of July to pay for the cost of government.

Not that long.

See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day

Last year, TFD was ~April 30.

Also, for fun:

http://www.mytaxfreedomday.com/index.php

[Spider]

The average American works for free until about the middle of July to pay for the cost of government.

Ron Paul tell you this ?

[Spider]

That's the only kind you get in government...

Does this got for Ron Paul also or is he special ?

[Taco John]

Does this got for Ron Paul also or is he special ?



I believe Ron Paul has had to make a few political caluculations in his time, but his record shows him to be rather special when his votes are examined against the standard of the Constitution.

[Spider]

I believe Ron Paul has had to make a few political caluculations in his time, but his record shows him to be rather special when his votes are examined against the standard of the Constitution.

but didnt you say all we get is turds in government ...... Ron Paul is a politician

[Taco John]

but didnt you say all we get is turds in government ......

Generally this is correct. Ron Paul is a very rare exception. He's the kind of politician that comes along maybe once every hundred years.



Ron Paul is a politician

Indeed.

[Spider]

Generally this is correct. Ron Paul is a very rare exception. He's the kind of politician that comes along maybe once every hundred years. no he isnt , there is one Ron Paul every 4 years , different talking points , but in the end they all say the same thing , everything is screwed up we have to fix it ....... And this also worries me , I am a card carrying Democrat , but you dont see me saying so and so will save us , so and so is the answer .... all politics are local , you have to start at home , then state ,then Fed .... you got to get the people elected in the lower areas if you want change , then work your way up ...... yo uwant ot see somthing that will scare the hell out of you , look at some of the idiotic takes in the McCain 100 years in Iraq thread ..... These are the people you are counting on to help you and your party bring about change .....
in other words ...you are screwed ;D

[Taco John]

Other than being completely wrong, you make some statements...

http://video.on.nytimes.com/?fr_story=8cf689588ac9e279703e54bbf8173c7897dab4cc

[Spider]

Other than being completely wrong, you make some statements...

http://video.on.nytimes.com/?fr_story=8cf689588ac9e279703e54bbf8173c7897dab4cc

LOL I am wrong about what ?

[Rohirrim]

Why do you define "capitalist" as "those who sit on their asses while the largesse from daddy's investments come rolling in"?

Where do the small business owners who work 100-hour weeks fit in to your classist dogma?

I'm willing to refine the language. I would put the small business owner under labor. They work for a living, harder than most, actually. People who make money by moving capital around are capitalists. That is not working for a living. That is benefitting from the work of others.

[Bronco Bob]

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the
arrangement, until on day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you
are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost
of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80".


You left out the part about the bar owner having to borrow $20 from
the Chinese laundry across the street to make up for the lost revenues
so the bar owner could meet his expenses.

[ak1971]

You left out the part about the bar owner having to borrow $20 from
the Chinese laundry across the street to make up for the lost revenues
so the bar owner could meet his expenses.

or I could add a bit about the unmentioned guy at the end of the bar being from a village in Norway due to it being ruined bt CDO investments. Now that guy at the end of the bar, met said 10th man after he said FU to the other 9 in Norway after he left the country....10th man still has plenty of $$$...fill in the blanks....

DISCLAIMER....THIS IS NOT A REAL WORLD SCENARIO..SO THERE IS NO CHANCE AT LAW SUIT HERE.

[Taco John]

LOL I am wrong about what ?


I'd need to start a whole new forum to answer that question! Ha!

[ak1971]

I'd need to start a whole new forum to answer that question! Ha!

http://dictionary.reference.com/

[W*GS]

I'm willing to refine the language. I would put the small business owner under labor. They work for a living, harder than most, actually. People who make money by moving capital around are capitalists. That is not working for a living. That is benefitting from the work of others.

How would you classify a laborer who has some money in a mutual fund?

[Spider]

I'd need to start a whole new forum to answer that question! Ha!

;D well you dont have anything else to do today ......