Do you believe Roger Clemens used steriods?

[bronco0608]

Pretty simple, yes or no.

[Gcver2ver3]

I believed he did long before all this Congessional hearing crap...

[TheDave]

YES... Then again i think they all do.

[broncosteven]

HIXON YES!


I mean FONECO YES!

[TDmvp]

Duh ... yes ..

[dbfan4life]

of course, but so did half of baseball at the time.

[55CrushEm]

Who voted "no" ?

[Gcver2ver3]

Who voted "no" ?

i could only guess someone who went to click the "yes" button and missed...

[BMF Bronco]

How else do you expect him to keep up with Bonds and the other roiders?

[tsiguy96]

who cares, its not a big deal.

[broncosteven]

Can't congress solve the argument by seeing if Clemens's balls have shrunk?

Do your balls grow back after you stop using roids?

[dbfan4life]

How else do you expect him to keep up with Bonds and the other roiders?

How do you know who roided first?

[Arkansas Bronco]

Yes. Pitchers dont all of a sudden get stronger after 35 and sure as hell not after 40.

[broncosteven]

How do you know who roided first?

It's Ty Cobbs fault.

[Gcver2ver3]

How do you know who roided first?


ah ha....

[DomCasual]

Um, yes.

[bfoflcommish]

yes!

pretty funny stuff out of that hearing today. I laughed out loud at the whole inviting nanny to his house after not speaking to her for 8 years but now that congress wants to talk to her he invites her over.

[Crushaholic]

I read the "no" answer in a sarcastic tone. "No! Clemens would NEVER do such a thing!". Given the sarcastic spin I gave on that answer, I checked the "no" option...:P

[ColoradoDarin]

Um, where's the option for "I think McNamee is a lying douchebag and Clemens is a lying douchebag but yet don't care enough about either one to give a crap"?

[broncocalijohn]

as a friend of Clemens, there is no reason for Pettite to lie. Of course Andy now comes out and says he took roids after the 2002 season when bought from his father in law. The whole taped phone conversation with McNamee got me on the side that Clemens was guilty. Here Clemens thought he would expose Brian but the opposite happened. Very sad. If I ever find out that David Eckstein did roids, I am done with baseball.

[Goobzilla]

At least now McNamee can get back to his new job as an Andy Dick impersonator.

[broncocalijohn]

Um, where's the option for "I think McNamee is a lying douchebag and Clemens is a lying douchebag but yet don't care enough about either one to give a crap"?

Dont you know that one of them has to be telling the truth? One is perjuring themselves and I am going to say it is Clemens. His option is to lie to protect his HOF chance but the look of this poll has me to believe that at least his reputation is shot.

[broncosteven]

the look of this poll has me to believe that at least his reputation is shot.

And BCJ has seen A LOT of "POLLS".

[-Slap-]

YES... Then again i think they all do.

Do you remember, during one of our multiple discussions about this topic, when you said detection is too hard, so enforcement is pretty much impossible?

I said there will always be people willing to talk, of for no other reason than to spare their own necks.

As far the impact, it's pretty obvious. There were something like 47 guys who hit more than 30 HRs in 2001 and only about 23 of them last year.

:strong:

[-Slap-]

My favorite story about Clemens happened during the Subway Series when he threw that bat fragment at Mike Piazza's feet. My little Republican homophobe friend swears that the "hurt look" on Piazza's face proved that the rumors are true and he's gay.

[-Slap-]

You know, with Clemens getting grilled by Congress and potentially facing perjury charges and McGwire in exile and Palmeiro publicly disgraced and Marion Jones stripped of her gold medals and going to jail, it sure is awful how Barry Bonds has been singled out in this whole affair.

[TheDave]

Do you remember, during one of our multiple discussions about this topic, when you said detection is too hard, so enforcement is pretty much impossible?

I said there will always be people willing to talk, of for no other reason than to spare their own necks.

As far the impact, it's pretty obvious. There were something like 47 guys who hit more than 30 HRs in 2001 and only about 23 of them last year.

:strong:

and i agreed with you on the "rats". I honestly never expected the heat to get turned up this much.

as for less HR's being hit... Give it time. The chemists will figure it out, they always do. ;D

[DomCasual]

The follow-up question to this should be, "How much time should Roger Clemens get when it's proven that he perjured himself?"

Seriously, there is going to be a smoking gun somewhere that proves he took steroids. It just doesn't sound as if he was all that careful about it. And if he honestly thinks this is all going to blow over prior to that smoking gun being found, he's pretty naive.

Admitting he took them may and may not have kept him out of the Hall of Fame. I have my doubts about that, considering the apparent widespread use of them over a pretty sizable window of time - but whatever. Admitting he took them certainly wouldn't have put him in legal jeopardy. Lying before Congress - well, that's a different story. Pettite is perceived as a pretty good guy through all of this, and he used HGH. The furor over Giambi passed. Heck, even Canseco is past his give minutes of infamy. Life goes on, and people forgive. But people remember a liar - especially one that ends up serving time for perjury.

[yavoon]

The follow-up question to this should be, "How much time should Roger Clemens get when it's proven that he perjured himself?"

Seriously, there is going to be a smoking gun somewhere that proves he took steroids. It just doesn't sound as if he was all that careful about it. And if he honestly thinks this is all going to blow over prior to that smoking gun being found, he's pretty naive.

Admitting he took them may and may not have kept him out of the Hall of Fame. I have my doubts about that, considering the apparent widespread use of them over a pretty sizable window of time - but whatever. Admitting he took them certainly wouldn't have put him in legal jeopardy. Lying before Congress - well, that's a different story. Pettite is perceived as a pretty good guy through all of this, and he used HGH. The furor over Giambi passed. Heck, even Canseco is past his give minutes of infamy. Life goes on, and people forgive. But people remember a liar - especially one that ends up serving time for perjury.

the liars always should suffer hardest.

and I heard somewhere its 5 years/lie for perjury. though no guarantee thats right.

[Old Dude]

You know, with Clemens getting grilled by Congress and potentially facing perjury charges and McGwire in exile and Palmeiro publicly disgraced and Marion Jones stripped of her gold medals and going to jail, it sure is awful how Barry Bonds has been singled out in this whole affair.


zing!

[BMF Bronco]

hahahaha I know, poor ol' barry

[Old Dude]

the liars always should suffer hardest.

and I heard somewhere its 5 years/lie for perjury. though no guarantee thats right.

Do you mean "five years per lie?"

Oh man, I'm gonna have to get a couple extra toothbrushes.

[TheDave]

The follow-up question to this should be, "How much time should Roger Clemens get when it's proven that he perjured himself?"

Seriously, there is going to be a smoking gun somewhere that proves he took steroids. It just doesn't sound as if he was all that careful about it. And if he honestly thinks this is all going to blow over prior to that smoking gun being found, he's pretty naive.

Admitting he took them may and may not have kept him out of the Hall of Fame. I have my doubts about that, considering the apparent widespread use of them over a pretty sizable window of time - but whatever. Admitting he took them certainly wouldn't have put him in legal jeopardy. Lying before Congress - well, that's a different story. Pettite is perceived as a pretty good guy through all of this, and he used HGH. The furor over Giambi passed. Heck, even Canseco is past his give minutes of infamy. Life goes on, and people forgive. But people remember a liar - especially one that ends up serving time for perjury.

I just don't see how they could prove it. Say this guy does have syringes... Clemons attorneys understand chain of custody well enough to get that thrown out. Video evidence isn't going to work. Baring a herd of Doctors, nuns, and other do-gooders coming out and saying they saw him shooting up I just don't see how they are going to prove anything.

[yavoon]

Do you mean "five years per lie?"

Oh man, I'm gonna have to get a couple extra toothbrushes.

yes "/" means per.

[maher_tyler]

Who voted "no" ?

I voted no...mostly just cause i hope he didn't or he's screwed..not sure why he'd put himself in that situation of possible purgery/lying under oath..just come clean..either you come clean and all records are tainted or don't come clean get accused of using..have all records tainted and face jail time..just stupid..so i said no!! I wont be surprised either way!!

[Los Broncos]

HGH is the fountain of youth, yes.

[Broncos123]

Guilty!!

[Bronx33]

The dude should have just came clean a couple weeks ago his ego was just to huge to allow it though now look where hes at.

[400HZ]

Steriods? Maybe. Steroids? Yes.

[Don Flamenco]

How else do you expect him to keep up with Bonds and the other roiders?

Yeah, don't you guys know it was Barry's fault

[Don Flamenco]

HGH is the fountain of youth, yes.

Had it prescribed to me for my bum shoulder. It was great.

[MileHighMagic]

I don't blame Rocket at all! I blame the owners and Major League Baseball. After the strike in 94, they needed asses in the stands again and steroids was the key to bringing them back, quickly.

Clemens obviously lied but I don't care. He absolutely deserves to get in the hall... he is the best pitcher of this generation with or without performance enhancing drugs. When McNamee was accused of being a "drug dealer" he said, "that's the culture." When there is no testing, nobody cares, and you are highly competetive person.... why not? I probably would too. In the late nineties I almost used on my college team. Half the team did, and I felt a ton of pressure, just to compete. Roger probably realized that if most of the league is using, and I have a doctor's supervision...

[-Slap-]

I don't blame Rocket at all! I blame the owners and Major League Baseball. After the strike in 94, they needed asses in the stands again and steroids was the key to bringing them back, quickly.

Clemens obviously lied but I don't care. He absolutely deserves to get in the hall... he is the best pitcher of this generation with or without performance enhancing drugs. When McNamee was accused of being a "drug dealer" he said, "that's the culture." When there is no testing, nobody cares, and you are highly competetive person.... why not? I probably would too. In the late nineties I almost used on my college team. Half the team did, and I felt a ton of pressure, just to compete. Roger probably realized that if most of the league is using, and I have a doctor's supervision...

Please. Eliminate his artificial boost on the back half and he's far behind Maddux, Pedro the chicken killer, Unit and others.

[-Slap-]

I don't blame Rocket at all! I blame the owners and Major League Baseball. After the strike in 94, they needed asses in the stands again and steroids was the key to bringing them back, quickly.

Clemens obviously lied but I don't care. He absolutely deserves to get in the hall... he is the best pitcher of this generation with or without performance enhancing drugs. When McNamee was accused of being a "drug dealer" he said, "that's the culture." When there is no testing, nobody cares, and you are highly competetive person.... why not? I probably would too. In the late nineties I almost used on my college team. Half the team did, and I felt a ton of pressure, just to compete. Roger probably realized that if most of the league is using, and I have a doctor's supervision...

What about the guys who are thisclose to making it he Majors that refuse to cheat to get there? Are they any less competitive?

Wouldn't you have appreciated a level playing field, so you wouldn't have felt pressured to inject yourself with drugs just to compete?

I think someone who was in your position should feel more outraged by that culture, not less.

[rbackfactory80]

You know, with Clemens getting grilled by Congress and potentially facing perjury charges and McGwire in exile and Palmeiro publicly disgraced and Marion Jones stripped of her gold medals and going to jail, it sure is awful how Barry Bonds has been singled out in this whole affair.

Chances of that are very slim. Clemens happens to be friends with many people on Capitol hill and in other areas of the government. He will walk with his reputation damaged, and because they can't get perjury charges on him because of his connections, they will feel they have to do the same with Bonds. The uproar would be to big to bring down Bonds and not him.

[Drunk Monkey]

Yes, but so what is was the norm at the time and not even against the rules. MLB screwed itself with the crap it let slide. serves them right.

[cutthemdown]

Clemens is lying under oath. His body language gives it away. He's the worst liar in the history of liars. The players that just admitted it where the smart ones. If any good evidence comes up that he lied under oath Clemens may get into some serious trouble.

[Bronx33]

Next question is at what point do all the new records start meaning nothing these guys crapped on the MLB and all the players that played it straight before them. It's a freaking shame that greed and egos have gone to this level they need to end this and wipe out everything guys like clemens accomplished while they played erase them from the history books. (that will end it) anything short of that is a waste of time IMO.

[montrose]

My gut says yes. Do I care? Not really, this is the steroid era - only fitting that it's best hitter (Bonds) and best pitcher have used.

[That One Guy]

I watched while working out today and it was ultimately some of the worst TV ever... put it on CSPAN or give me the highlights. Nobody in Washington deserves a live showing except Bush so they can't edit out his bumbling...

As for Clemens, I think he's taking my favorite defense... ignorance.

As far as I know, he just shot me up with legal stuff. ???

He made a reference to it being pink rather than whatever color his Dealer said it was... how do you prove stuff like that? Especially for the purposes of lying under oath? If he did get numerous pink shots and then one white one, it'd be plenty easy enough to get that mixed up after all these years. As long as you're willing to play stupid and say "wow, I must've been mistaken" if they ever catch you in a lie... you can ultimately get away with anything.

[yavoon]

I watched while working out today and it was ultimately some of the worst TV ever... put it on CSPAN or give me the highlights. Nobody in Washington deserves a live showing except Bush so they can't edit out his bumbling...

As for Clemens, I think he's taking my favorite defense... ignorance.

As far as I know, he just shot me up with legal stuff. ???

He made a reference to it being pink rather than whatever color his Dealer said it was... how do you prove stuff like that? Especially for the purposes of lying under oath? If he did get numerous pink shots and then one white one, it'd be plenty easy enough to get that mixed up after all these years. As long as you're willing to play stupid and say "wow, I must've been mistaken" if they ever catch you in a lie... you can ultimately get away with anything.

thats why you buy expensive lawyers so they can develop for you a strategy that is maximally offensive w/o leaving yourself open enough on the counterpunch.

[Taco John]

You know, with Clemens getting grilled by Congress and potentially facing perjury charges and McGwire in exile and Palmeiro publicly disgraced and Marion Jones stripped of her gold medals and going to jail, it sure is awful how Barry Bonds has been singled out in this whole affair.



LOL

It's funny because as I was re-heating some pizza this afternoon, I popped on the "news" and saw that this world shaking Clemens even was on every channel. I thought to myself nearly the exact same thing and wondered if all the race baiters who insisted that this was all about race have had their heads implode on their tiny brains.

[CBF1]

How else do you expect him to keep up with Bonds and the other roiders?

Bonds NL, Clemens AL Bad example.

I am on the THEY ALL have bandwagon:giggle:

[CBF1]

And BCJ has seen A LOT of "POLLS".

Don't you mean POLE ROFL!

[Bronco Jamus]

I believe Clemens until evidence can convict him in a court of law. I do not believe the words of a convicted felon. McCriminal is exactly that.

[MileHighMagic]

Please. Eliminate his artificial boost on the back half and he's far behind Maddux, Pedro the chicken killer, Unit and others.

You can't be serious! Randy Johnson and Pedro should not even be mentioned in the same breath as Clemens!! He is arguably the greatest of all time.

I love Greg Maddux. I idolized him and tried to emulate his style and approach to pitching when I played, but he is no Roger Clemens.

[-Slap-]

Chances of that are very slim. Clemens happens to be friends with many people on Capitol hill and in other areas of the government. He will walk with his reputation damaged, and because they can't get perjury charges on him because of his connections, they will feel they have to do the same with Bonds. The uproar would be to big to bring down Bonds and not him.

Perhaps, but Clemens overplayed his hand with his pre hearing lobbying efforts. It may well backfire on him. While the questioners today were overly respectful, only Don Burton made a total jackass of himself. The same Don Burton who vilified President Clinton over Monica Lewinsky, only to have it later come out he impregnated a city employee while he was a married man. One of the biggest skirt hounds in Congress, but he publicly called Bill Clinton a scumbag. His performance today as Clemens personal asskisser/goon was utterly sickening.

[-Slap-]

You can't be serious! Randy Johnson and Pedro should not even be mentioned in the same breath as Clemens!! He is arguably the greatest of all time.

I love Greg Maddux. I idolized him and tried to emulate his style and approach to pitching when I played, but he is no Roger Clemens.

Clemens final game was so fitting. He was getting his ass kicked in a playoff game, so he faked an injury and skedaddled, tail between his legs. He's done the same thing several other times. So fitting that will be his final appearance in a major league uniform.

[-Slap-]

I believe Clemens until evidence can convict him in a court of law. I do not believe the words of a convicted felon. McCriminal is exactly that.

Yeah, so Roidger let "McCriminal" inject HGH into his wife, but not into him, right?

Nice to see him throwing his old lady under the bus. Next to the housekeeper* who blew his Jose party alibi, my favorite part of the proceedings.

By the way, Chuck Knoblauch and Andy Pettitte confirmed McCriminal's account of things. Got any cute nicknames for them?








*Whose testimony he attempted to coerce.

[That One Guy]

I believe Clemens until evidence can convict him in a court of law. I do not believe the words of a convicted felon. McCriminal is exactly that.

Wow, so there IS actually someone out there that thinks OJ is innocent...

You're allowed to have your own standards for your opinion. The theory on the courts is to make things so foolproof that 10 guilty could go free before 1 innocent was wrongly convicted. As we're not perfect, I think you can drop your expectations of proof a bit and form an opinion based on what you do know. We promise we wont go arrest him based on what you say, scouts honor.

[That One Guy]

Yeah, so Roidger let "McCriminal" inject HGH into his wife, but not into him, right?

Nice to see him throwing his old lady under the bus. Next to the housekeeper* who blew his Jose party alibi, my favorite part of the proceedings.

By the way, Chuck Knoblauch and Andy Pettitte confirmed McCriminal's account of things. Got any cute nicknames for them?








*Whose testimony he attempted to coerce.

LOL I forgot about the whole wife as a shield stuff... that was crazyness. "He misunderstood me saying I got the shot, I said my wife got the shot..."

How do you someone confuse an entire conversation of I's for "my wife"'s?

[MileHighMagic]

What about the guys who are thisclose to making it he Majors that refuse to cheat to get there? Are they any less competitive?

Wouldn't you have appreciated a level playing field, so you wouldn't have felt pressured to inject yourself with drugs just to compete?

I think someone who was in your position should feel more outraged by that culture, not less.


I actually wasn't outraged. As a freshman I literally saw half the club using and I just thought that was normal because they were good guys. Oddly, I didn't view it as cheating. They were highly competetive players that wanted to win and busted their ass trying to accomplish their goals. Looking back now, I am sad that guys felt the need for that stuff... but I understand why they did. Dumb college kids aren't educated on how to cycle properly and they damn sure aren't under a doctor's supervision.

My point in my original post was to not blame the players, blame baseball. These guys who are chasing their dream in the minors and the college ranks, that feel the need to use to get an edge are not at fault IMO. With the money that can be made, it is not a difficult choice to sacrifice your own health for the financial security of your family and to live your dream. The problem is, when the kids coming up are using, that puts pressure on the veterans that are trying to keep their jobs so they are pressured as well.

Try to imagine how long a 162 regular season schedule is for everyday players. Not to mention spring training and the post season for some. HGH wasn't banned by MLB unil recently. If that aids me in getting healthy from an injury/recover faster and help the club win, I am doing it.

[Orange_Beard]

He should get his wife to take the fall.

[MileHighMagic]

Clemens final game was so fitting. He was getting his ass kicked in a playoff game, so he faked an injury and skedaddled, tail between his legs. He's done the same thing several other times. So fitting that will be his final appearance in a major league uniform.

He was 64 years old and injured!

Sorry if his :

7 Cy Youngs

354 wins

4,672 K's

& 3.12 E.R.A.

... aren't up to your standards. Oh yeah... those lifetime numbers were in the era where every fuc king rule was changed to favor offense. Ballparks shrunk, strikezone shrunk, ball was wound tighter, mound was lowered, hitters became massive, etc, etc. He is the greatest pitcher of all time whether you personally like him or not.

[That One Guy]

He was 64 years old and injured!

Sorry if his :

7 Cy Youngs

354 wins

4,672 K's

& 3.12 E.R.A.

... aren't up to your standards. Oh yeah... those lifetime numbers were in the era where every fuc king rule was changed to favor offense. Ballparks shrunk, strikezone shrunk, ball was wound tighter, mound was lowered, hitters became massive, etc, etc. He is the greatest pitcher of all time whether you personally like him or not.

Dang, I knew he played for a while but not that long. That's freakin amazing...

[Bronco Jamus]

What's the bit about his wife? I hit the golf course today.

[Vegas_Bronco]

Q: Have you ever been conficted of a felony?
A: Convicted? no, never convicted!

Somehow Roger's hearing seems a lot like this line of questioning.

[DenverBrit]

Who's Roger Clemens? :clown:

Has Congress finished solving: the economy, the Iraq conflict, immigration, global thingy, unemployment, George bush and my a huge tax break??

I think not!! Back to work!!

[Taco John]

By the way... My boy Bedard is a Mariner! I am SO pumped! I've been on the Bedard train for the last two years, and couldn't be happier to pair him up with Felix.

[minibronco]

I don't think. I know.

By the way, I'm having trouble finding a lengthy video of his testimony. From his body language you should be able to tell if he's lying or not... if anybody's seen it, can you tell me if he puts his hands up to his face in any way/manner after he speaks?

[minibronco]

By the way... My boy Bedard is a Mariner! I am SO pumped! I've been on the Bedard train for the last two years, and couldn't be happier to pair him up with Felix.

From an Angels fan.... congrats. :)

[broncofan2438]

Yes, he did. Screw him, what kind of example is he setting? F'em kick him to the kurb

[Taco John]

From an Angels fan.... congrats. :)



Thanks! I love your pitching staff. I'm hoping we can get the wins we need with Bedard on staff. I'm very optimistic about our chances.

[Taco John]

I don't think. I know.

By the way, I'm having trouble finding a lengthy video of his testimony. From his body language you should be able to tell if he's lying or not... if anybody's seen it, can you tell me if he puts his hands up to his face in any way/manner after he speaks?



He constantly shifts his eyes, left and right... Pauses a second to twist his mustachio de handle bars. And then waggles his eyebrows while looking into the camera.

I think that the mustache twirling is a dead set give away.

[Hogan11]

As his butt buddy and constant companion Andy The Pet goes...so goes Clemens.

[wabbit]

I vacillated between disbelief and sympathy for Clemens today. He's determined, apparently, to go down fighting...as was Jones, Conseco, Vick and all these idiots who think...with some justification...they can gather round the right balance of legal shysters, Congressional glad handers & idol-worshipers to walk away.

It seems to me Clemens is not only determined to walk away from this without legal consequences...he wants his reputation intact as the 'greatest of his generation' stuff as well.

Something else striking about todays' hearing is how remarkably inarticulate Clemens is...he fumbled for words...even invented a couple and seemed completely unable to express his feelings and point.

[DomCasual]

Please. Eliminate his artificial boost on the back half and he's far behind Maddux, Pedro the chicken killer, Unit and others.

In the interest of accuracy, I think it was a rooster.

[DomCasual]

One more thing that I thought was a nice touch for the Clemens PR machine: He hooked his wife up with some HGH. Nothing says "I love you!" like an injection of Human Growth Hormone.

[Hogan11]

One more thing that I thought was a nice touch for the Clemens PR machine: He hooked his wife up with some HGH. Nothing says "I love you!" like an injection of Human Growth Hormone.

Maybe he was hoping it'd give her a bigger rack.......

[24champ]

Maybe he was hoping it'd give her a bigger rack.......

Must be...its a nice rack...


http://s.a.cnn.net/si/features/2003_swimsuit/images/athletes/athletes03.jpg

[Gcver2ver3]

Must be...its a nice rack...


http://s.a.cnn.net/si/features/2003_swimsuit/images/athletes/athletes03.jpg

she looks like jennifer anniston in that pic...

[Orange_Beard]

In the Subway series against the Mets, when he threw the broken bat at Mike Piazza, I though for sure he was hyped on speed, maybe it was roid rage?

The look in his eyes was that of a person on something.

[-Slap-]

He was 64 years old and injured!

Sorry if his :

7 Cy Youngs

354 wins

4,672 K's

& 3.12 E.R.A.

... aren't up to your standards. Oh yeah... those lifetime numbers were in the era where every fuc king rule was changed to favor offense. Ballparks shrunk, strikezone shrunk, ball was wound tighter, mound was lowered, hitters became massive, etc, etc. He is the greatest pitcher of all time whether you personally like him or not.


Your pathetic groveling at his feet notwithstanding, he was a smarmy cheater and he got exposed. Too fuc king bad if you can't handle the truth.

[Bronco Jamus]

Yeah, so Roidger let "McCriminal" inject HGH into his wife, but not into him, right?

Nice to see him throwing his old lady under the bus. Next to the housekeeper* who blew his Jose party alibi, my favorite part of the proceedings.

By the way, Chuck Knoblauch and Andy Pettitte confirmed McCriminal's account of things. Got any cute nicknames for them?








*Whose testimony he attempted to coerce.

According to ESPN Clemens said he never said that. At the end of the day we are talking about a drug dealer, who lied to federal authorities in a rape case. Excuse me while I don't believe him and assume Mr Clemens innocent until proven guilty.

[Gcver2ver3]

According to ESPN Clemens said he never said that. At the end of the day we are talking about a drug dealer, who lied to federal authorities in a rape case. Excuse me while I don't believe him and assume Mr Clemens innocent until proven guilty.

you can't be serious...

so let me get this straight...

McNamee says he hooked Clemens up...Pettite says Clemens told him he did the stuff...Clemen's wife did HGH...Chuck and Andy both back up McNamee's story...not to mention Clemens head size and amazing post 35 yrs of age performance...

and you assume he's innocent?

I have a bag of magic beans to sell you...

and you said I don't know MY stuff?

[Bronco Jamus]

And the other two are admitted cheaters. Clemens may also have cheated, but I am going to take him at his word, until proven guilty in a court.

[Gcver2ver3]

And the other two are admitted cheaters. Clemens may also have cheated, but I am going to take him at his word, until proven guilty in a court.

yeah i hear ya but i just don't see it that way...

i figured clemens was on the stuff long before all this congressional hearing crap or the mithcell report...

even with that said i think it's bull to try and incriminate him on this...

we just need to accept that baseball was (and still is) tainted with roids...

i take all their stats at face value...thats all i can do because i'll never know who did them by cheating and who didn't...

so i just assume most all of them are guilty...

even still...if it were up to me i'd legalize it anyway...

that way maybe congress can focus on more important matters...

[TheDave]

she looks like jennifer anniston in that pic...

Yeah Jennifer Aniston with a pair of D's and a 6 pack...

[Gcver2ver3]

Yeah Jennifer Aniston with a pair of D's and a 6 pack...

yeah pretty much...

[MileHighMagic]

Your pathetic groveling at his feet notwithstanding, he was a smarmy cheater and he got exposed. Too fuc king bad if you can't handle the truth.


Pathetic groveling? Every baseball man that has half a brain will admit he is at the very least, top three of all time.

You obviously don't know sh!t about the game... we've established that. I just cannot believe that even you, won't admit he is one of the best pitchers ever to take the hill.

Wake up! This was/is the steroid era! The entire league was dirty because nobody was testing. HGH wasn't banned until very recently and they can't even test for it.

[BMF Bronco]

And the other two are admitted cheaters. Clemens may also have cheated, but I am going to take him at his word, until proven guilty in a court.

which word it that?

"misremember", "misheard", or another word he made up?

[yavoon]

which word it that?

"misremember", "misheard", or another word he made up?

misremember is a word

[Gcver2ver3]

Pathetic groveling? Every baseball man that has half a brain will admit he is at the very least, top three of all time.

You obviously don't know sh!t about the game... we've established that. I just cannot believe that even you, won't admit he is one of the best pitchers ever to take the hill.

Wake up! This was/is the steroid era! The entire league was dirty because nobody was testing. HGH wasn't banned until very recently and they can't even test for it.

I don't like Clemens...at all

But I admit he's one of the best all time...

in fact i believe he's the best right hander of all time...

i agree with your sentiment about the whole league being dirty...

which is why i take all stats at face value during that era...(whether i'm right or wrong for it)

with that said...clemens is still a cheating jerk with no morals...:P

[Gcver2ver3]

misremember is a word

so is yavoon...

[BMF Bronco]

misremember is a word

if used in the correct context...

" He will be my friend after this and again. I think Andy has misheard," Clemens said. "I think he misremembers."

[Natedogg]

My friend is a congressional aide and he said Clemens was making the rounds signing tons of balls on Monday (almost exclusively with Republican members.) Pathetic, I say.

He was definitely in Ted Poe's office.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=aikjSkqEQ.sM&refer=home

Puke.

[yavoon]

if used in the correct context...

" He will be my friend after this and again. I think Andy has misheard," Clemens said. "I think he misremembers."

=D

[BMF Bronco]

Dude, you know when Stuart Scott and Scott Van Pelt make fun of his vernacular, it's gotta be ***ked up!

[yavoon]

Dude, you know when Stuart Scott and Scott Van Pelt make fun of his vernacular, it's gotta be ****ed up!

haha

[Bronco LB 59]

If true, this is ****ed up! McNamee's lawyer thinks George W. Bush is going to pardon Clemens!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnPccBPM3yI0KYOGSEukR3M5nYcB?slug=ap-clemens-pardon&prov=ap&type=lgns

[-Slap-]

Pathetic groveling? Every baseball man that has half a brain will admit he is at the very least, top three of all time.

You obviously don't know sh!t about the game... we've established that. I just cannot believe that even you, won't admit he is one of the best pitchers ever to take the hill.

Wake up! This was/is the steroid era! The entire league was dirty because nobody was testing. HGH wasn't banned until very recently and they can't even test for it.

He's a cheater, a front-runner and one of the biggest prima donnas the game has ever seen. I'll play half a season, only for a contender and I'll grab my hamstring or get ejected if I find myself getting knocked around in the early innings of a playoff game.

That last game was so fitting. Getting tattooed in a playoff game and he grabs his hamstring so he can slink off the mound and spare his precious ERA. Good old Roger Dodger.

[-Slap-]

If true, this is ****ed up! McNamee's lawyer thinks George W. Bush is going to pardon Clemens!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnPccBPM3yI0KYOGSEukR3M5nYcB?slug=ap-clemens-pardon&prov=ap&type=lgns

A couple Texas con men who can only fool people who want to be fools.

[Bronco LB 59]

He's a cheater, a front-runner and one of the biggest prima donnas the game has ever seen. I'll play half a season, only for a contender and I'll grab my hamstring or get ejected if I find myself getting knocked around in the early innings of a playoff game.

That last game was so fitting. Getting tattooed in a playoff game and he grabs his hamstring so he can slink off the mound and spare his precious ERA. Good old Roger Dodger.

Who can forget his meltdown in game four of the 1990 ALCS versus Oakland? Clemens gave up three runs in the second inning and starts yapping at the home plate ump about balls and strikes calls. Clemens got tossed and Boston went down in a 4-0 sweep. I loved it.

Now that Clemens' career has been tarnished, Greg Maddux will be the winner in all of this. He's been sort of forgotten about since the 1990s, but will be perceived by the majority as the greatest hurler from that generation.

[Bronx33]

If true, this is ****ed up! McNamee's lawyer thinks George W. Bush is going to pardon Clemens!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnPccBPM3yI0KYOGSEukR3M5nYcB?slug=ap-clemens-pardon&prov=ap&type=lgns

Well that would be the cherry on top of bushes commander and chief funtime.

[-Slap-]

Who can forget his meltdown in game four of the 1990 ALCS versus Oakland? Clemens gave up three runs in the second inning and starts yapping at the home plate ump about balls and strikes calls. Clemens got tossed and Boston went down in a 4-0 sweep. I loved it.

Now that Clemens' career has been tarnished, Greg Maddux will be the winner in all of this. He's been sort of forgotten about since the 1990s, but will be perceived by the majority as the greatest hurler from that generation.

With good reason. I believe Maddux has a decent shot at being the first Baseball Hall of Famer elected unanimously.

Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1986 20 CHC NL 2 4 6 5 1 0 1 0 31.0 44 20 19 3 11 20 1 2 144 2 0 5.52 4.02 73 1.774
1987 21 CHC NL 6 14 30 27 1 1 2 0 155.7 181 111 97 17 74 101 4 4 701 13 7 5.61 4.25 76 1.638
1988 22 CHC NL 18 8 34 34 9 3 0 0 249.0 230 97 88 13 81 140 9 3 1047 16 6 3.18 3.63 114 1.249 AS
1989 23 CHC NL 19 12 35 35 7 1 0 0 238.3 222 90 78 13 82 135 6 5 1002 13 3 2.95 3.78 128 1.276 CYA-3
1990 24 CHC NL 15 15 35 35 8 2 0 0 237.0 242 116 91 11 71 144 4 3 1011 10 3 3.46 4.10 119 1.321
1991 25 CHC NL 15 11 37 37 7 2 0 0 263.0 232 113 98 18 66 198 6 6 1070 9 3 3.35 3.87 115 1.133
1992 26 CHC NL 20 11 35 35 9 4 0 0 268.0 201 68 65 7 70 199 14 5 1061 7 0 2.18 3.61 166 1.011 MVP-11,CYA-1,AS
1993 27 ATL NL 20 10 36 36 8 1 0 0 267.0 228 85 70 14 52 197 6 5 1064 7 1 2.36 4.05 171 1.049 MVP-13,CYA-1
1994 28 ATL NL 16 6 25 25 10 3 0 0 202.0 150 44 35 4 31 156 6 3 774 3 1 1.56 4.22 271 0.896 MVP-5,CYA-1,AS
1995 29 ATL NL 19 2 28 28 10 3 0 0 209.7 147 39 38 8 23 181 4 1 785 3 0 1.63 4.27 262 0.811 MVP-3,CYA-1,AS
1996 30 ATL NL 15 11 35 35 5 1 0 0 245.0 225 85 74 11 28 172 3 4 978 11 0 2.72 4.39 162 1.033 CYA-5,AS
1997 31 ATL NL 19 4 33 33 5 2 0 0 232.7 200 58 57 9 20 177 6 0 893 6 0 2.20 4.17 189 0.946 MVP-12,CYA-2,AS
1998 32 ATL NL 18 9 34 34 9 5 0 0 251.0 201 75 62 13 45 204 7 4 987 10 0 2.22 4.15 187 0.980 CYA-4,AS
1999 33 ATL NL 19 9 33 33 4 0 0 0 219.3 258 103 87 16 37 136 4 1 940 8 0 3.57 4.48 125 1.345
2000 34 ATL NL 19 9 35 35 6 3 0 0 249.3 225 91 83 19 42 190 10 1 1012 12 2 3.00 4.59 153 1.071 MVP-12,CYA-3,AS
2001 35 ATL NL 17 11 34 34 3 3 0 0 233.0 220 86 79 20 27 173 7 2 927 10 0 3.05 4.45 146 1.060
2002 36 ATL NL 16 6 34 34 0 0 0 0 199.3 194 67 58 14 45 118 4 1 820 7 0 2.62 4.16 159 1.199
2003 37 ATL NL 16 11 36 36 1 0 0 0 218.3 225 112 96 24 33 124 8 3 901 7 0 3.96 4.29 108 1.182
2004 38 CHC NL 16 11 33 33 2 1 0 0 212.7 218 103 95 35 33 151 9 2 872 4 0 4.02 4.40 109 1.180
2005 39 CHC NL 13 15 35 35 3 0 0 0 225.0 239 112 106 29 36 136 7 8 936 4 0 4.24 4.40 104 1.222
2006 40 TOT NL 15 14 34 34 0 0 0 0 210.0 219 109 98 20 37 117 0 0 862 7 0 4.20 4.58 109 1.219
CHC NL 9 11 22 22 0 0 0 0 136.3 153 78 71 14 23 81 0 0 572 3 0 4.69 4.63 99 1.291
LAD NL 6 3 12 12 0 0 0 0 73.7 66 31 27 6 14 36 0 0 290 4 0 3.30 4.49 136 1.086
2007 41 SDP NL 14 11 34 34 1 0 0 0 198.0 221 92 91 14 25 104 6 5 830 3 0 4.14 4.04 98 1.242
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
22 Yr WL% .619 347 214 711 707 109 35 3 0 4814.3 4522 1876 1665 332 969 3273 131 68 19617 172 26 3.11 4.17 134 1.141
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+

[TomServo]

clemens juiced? next thing people will try to peddle is that bonds tested positive.

[Bronco LB 59]

13 more or more wins in 20 straight seasons. Practically 200 innings in each of those 20 years. That's amazing.

The Padres last year had Maddux address the organization's minor league pitchers at spring training and he told them, "pitching is two things: fastball command and changing speeds". I never heard anyway summarize the craft better than that.

The players in MLB constantly rate him in polls as the "smartest guy in baseball" - quite an honor for a guy who didn't attend college.

Here's one of my favorite Maddux stories:

In his first go-round in Chicago, Maddux was a Cub from the second round of the 1984 draft through the first of his four consecutive Cy Young awards, in 1992.

Ned Colletti worked in the Cubs' front office during those years.

As part of his duties, he would distribute scouting reports to the players, including detailed printouts for each pitcher, chronicling years of results against opposing hitters.

The report Colletti handed to Maddux was for the New York Mets. After a few minutes, Maddux called Colletti over.

He pointed to a 3-and-2 fastball with which he was supposed to have struck out Howard Johnson, a year and a half before.

''Could you look this up on video?'' Maddux asked. ''I don't remember throwing that pitch to him.''

Some 15 years later, Colletti sat in the Dodgers' dugout, having acquired Maddux eight days earlier, and recalled returning to Maddux's locker with video evidence.

''It was a change-up,'' Colletti told him.

[Bronco Jamus]

which word it that?

"misremember", "misheard", or another word he made up?

Those aren't made up words, BMF. They actually exist.

If he did cheat though anf he broke the law, then put him in jail.

[MileHighMagic]

Here's one of my favorite Maddux stories:

In his first go-round in Chicago, Maddux was a Cub from the second round of the 1984 draft through the first of his four consecutive Cy Young awards, in 1992.

Ned Colletti worked in the Cubs' front office during those years.

As part of his duties, he would distribute scouting reports to the players, including detailed printouts for each pitcher, chronicling years of results against opposing hitters.

The report Colletti handed to Maddux was for the New York Mets. After a few minutes, Maddux called Colletti over.

He pointed to a 3-and-2 fastball with which he was supposed to have struck out Howard Johnson, a year and a half before.

''Could you look this up on video?'' Maddux asked. ''I don't remember throwing that pitch to him.''

Some 15 years later, Colletti sat in the Dodgers' dugout, having acquired Maddux eight days earlier, and recalled returning to Maddux's locker with video evidence.

''It was a change-up,'' Colletti told him.

Great story! Thanks for sharing.

Two other brilliant minds in the game are Orel Hershiser and Steve Stone. You can learn so much from each broadcast with these two.

I used to think the Braves organization was so great. The 14 or 15 division titles in a row, the classy players/front office, and all that homegrown talent. My cousin is currently in their organization and they don't teach him sh!t. Last year he was the youngest player on their AA team and a high draft pick so you would think they would be paying serious attention to his development... but according to him, he gets very little to no instruction. I always thought that maybe he wasn't telling me everything but one night, watching a ballgame on ESPN this subject came up and Hershiser confirmed that the higher up you go in baseball, the less you are coached.

[BMF Bronco]

if used in the correct context...

" He will be my friend after this and again. I think Andy has misheard," Clemens said. "I think he misremembers."

see above Jamus

[TomServo]

Huh .I thought Shock and awe was the way to go .......I took it As people referring to the missile defense system being in Bush's control , I still have yet to read anyone say Bush invented the damn thing , perhaps you could point this out ? ....I havent even read the article .......Bush has surrounded himself with very incompetent people , you cant blame people for freaking out ......

[TomServo]

ho
ly crap wrong thread