View Full Version : Congress Smells a Stink from the NFL - Spygate Hearings Today
epicSocialism4tw
02-13-2008, 11:51 AM
It looks like the NFL is manned by fools.
"The punishment went beyond the confiscated Jets tapes. The tapes and notes dated as far back as 2002 and the NFL said in October that Belichick acknowledged to Goodell that there had been spying since he became New England's coach in 2000
"That's what they had," he replied. "My guess is that they taped over some of those from time to time. That's what video departments do. They did it more than six times because there were notes that reflected that."
Matt Walsh, the former Patriots assistant coach who performed some videotaping duties for the team, said last week during the Pro Bowl in Hawaii that he couldn't talk about allegations that he taped a walkthrough practice by the St. Louis Rams before the 2002 Super Bowl. New England, a two-touchdown underdog, won that game 20-17..."We were aware of this before," Goodell said, referring to 2002 allegations. "We pursued it and weren't able to get any information that was credible.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7790584/Goodell-to-meet-with-Specter-on-Wednesday
fontaine
02-13-2008, 03:39 PM
It looks like the NFL is manned by fools.
"The punishment went beyond the confiscated Jets tapes. The tapes and notes dated as far back as 2002 and the NFL said in October that Belichick acknowledged to Goodell that there had been spying since he became New England's coach in 2000
"That's what they had," he replied. "My guess is that they taped over some of those from time to time. That's what video departments do. They did it more than six times because there were notes that reflected that."
Matt Walsh, the former Patriots assistant coach who performed some videotaping duties for the team, said last week during the Pro Bowl in Hawaii that he couldn't talk about allegations that he taped a walkthrough practice by the St. Louis Rams before the 2002 Super Bowl. New England, a two-touchdown underdog, won that game 20-17..."We were aware of this before," Goodell said, referring to 2002 allegations. "We pursued it and weren't able to get any information that was credible.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7790584/Goodell-to-meet-with-Specter-on-Wednesday
Take it for what it's worth considering the source but I read a report on pft that Belichick threatened to talk disclose all information about video taping in the NFL that's been going on for years, even when he was staff with other coaches if Goodell kept probing with spygate. Basically throwing the entire game into disrepute.
Knowing Belichick that's exactly what you would expect him to do.
Paladin
02-13-2008, 03:45 PM
Well, it has been acknowledged by some others that tapoing had been done by other teams. The question is what competitive advantage did anyone get from that? I mean if the mullets were taping everyone, what good did it do them? Or the 49ers? or.... whomever....
epicSocialism4tw
02-13-2008, 04:15 PM
Take it for what it's worth considering the source but I read a report on pft that Belichick threatened to talk disclose all information about video taping in the NFL that's been going on for years, even when he was staff with other coaches if Goodell kept probing with spygate. Basically throwing the entire game into disrepute.
Knowing Belichick that's exactly what you would expect him to do.
Interesting.
You are right about Belechick. He's as slimy as they come.
Bronco Rob
02-13-2008, 04:20 PM
Thank Goodness the NFL cracked down on real problems like Travis Henry!
Sarcasm mode turned off....
dbfan4life
02-13-2008, 04:21 PM
I'm all for getting to the bottom of cheating in sports but what the hell does congress have to do with it? Same with baseball. WTF does congress really need to know who did what in professional sports. Are professional sports now under government rule? I just don't get it. Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
epicSocialism4tw
02-13-2008, 04:26 PM
I'm all for getting to the bottom of cheating in sports but what the hell does congress have to do with it? Same with baseball. WTF does congress really need to know who did what in professional sports. Are professional sports now under government rule? I just don't get it. Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
Well, these businesses in the sports entertainment industry are given the okay on a veritable monopoly situation. Given that they police themselves of course.
When these business enter into shady practice, the guys in congress see it as well as everyone else...they watch (and gamble on) sports too. Why not organize a hearing if you can straighten it out?
Inkana7
02-13-2008, 04:38 PM
The NFL or MLB is a huge business as ENRON or GM is a huge business. If they're not doing things correctly, then Congress gets involved.
Beantown Bronco
02-13-2008, 04:53 PM
Take it for what it's worth considering the source but I read a report on pft that Belichick threatened to talk disclose all information about video taping in the NFL that's been going on for years, even when he was staff with other coaches if Goodell kept probing with spygate. Basically throwing the entire game into disrepute.
Knowing Belichick that's exactly what you would expect him to do.
Seriously.....if that's true, what a whiney POS he is. This is the equivalent of a kid being eliminated from a game of dodgeball, so he decides to take his ball and go home instead of letting the kids use it who are still in the game.
dbfan4life
02-13-2008, 05:22 PM
Well, these businesses in the sports entertainment industry are given the okay on a veritable monopoly situation. Given that they police themselves of course.
When these business enter into shady practice, the guys in congress see it as well as everyone else...they watch (and gamble on) sports too. Why not organize a hearing if you can straighten it out?
Well it just seems to me that there has always been one form of cheating or another in sports. Why all the concern now? It seems to me that Goodell has done a pretty decent job policing the league, so why all the fuss about it.
Baseball is a whole other story but the sensationalism of it all comes out to seem like a big withch hunt to me. Why not hold the main man accountable for what's happened in baseball instead of singling out a hand full of players. Hell, half of baseball must of been juicing but why single out Roger or Barry. Why not get rid of the guy who allowed it to happen all the while. What good does it do to right the ship by allowing congress to expose everyone they possibly can?
broncosteven
02-13-2008, 05:28 PM
Why not hold the main man accountable for what's happened in baseball instead of singling out a hand full of players. Hell, half of baseball must of been juicing but why single out Roger or Barry. Why not get rid of the guy who allowed it to happen all the while. What good does it do to right the ship by allowing congress to expose everyone they possibly can?
I am still floored that MLB thought it was OK for their Players to play their games for the past decade or so on Speed of one form or another.
I think it was 2005 (the year after Bo Socks won) that a majority of MLB players were jonesing because they could not take Ephedra or any other Stimulant like large doses of Cafeine during a game.
I only play in a 12" softball league but I don't need a hand full of goofballs to get through a game. WTF?
PatsWin2002
02-13-2008, 05:55 PM
Seriously.....if that's true, what a whiney POS he is. This is the equivalent of a kid being eliminated from a game of dodgeball, so he decides to take his ball and go home instead of letting the kids use it who are still in the game.
Or on the contrary you could say that he is taking the hit for everyone and just be done with it. It's practically a Biblical offering if you think about it. But then again, what else would expect from the greatest football coach the world has ever known.
broncosteven
02-13-2008, 06:05 PM
Or on the contrary you could say that he is taking the hit for everyone and just be done with it. It's practically a Biblical offering if you think about it. But then again, what else would expect from the greatest football coach the world has ever known.
Lombardi died over 35 years ago. Why bring him up?
crazyhorse
02-13-2008, 06:09 PM
While Congress looks for a reasonable explanation for destroying the evidence Paladin tries to explain to everyone that the Patriots cheated for no reason, other than to work on thier video taping skills.
Does this sound reasonable to anyone else?
crazyhorse
02-13-2008, 06:36 PM
Or on the contrary you could say that he is taking the hit for everyone and just be done with it. It's practically a Biblical offering if you think about it. But then again, what else would expect from the greatest football coach the world has ever known.
Are you believeing what you are saying? I hope you're being sarcastic. Other wise, you're a fool.
What part of being a cheater for years, would make you even a good coach?
BroncoBuff
02-13-2008, 07:05 PM
:pray: ... Thank you again, Lord, for SB XLII
epicSocialism4tw
02-13-2008, 08:03 PM
:pray: ... Thank you again, Lord, for SB XLII
No doubt. Tuck, Eli, and the boys really did us all a huge favor, didnt they?
Was anyone actually rooting for the Pats in that one? They are such a disgusting franchise that even Pats fans had to be pulling for them to get squashed.
maher_tyler
02-13-2008, 08:08 PM
It looks like the NFL is manned by fools.
"The punishment went beyond the confiscated Jets tapes. The tapes and notes dated as far back as 2002 and the NFL said in October that Belichick acknowledged to Goodell that there had been spying since he became New England's coach in 2000
"That's what they had," he replied. "My guess is that they taped over some of those from time to time. That's what video departments do. They did it more than six times because there were notes that reflected that."
Matt Walsh, the former Patriots assistant coach who performed some videotaping duties for the team, said last week during the Pro Bowl in Hawaii that he couldn't talk about allegations that he taped a walkthrough practice by the St. Louis Rams before the 2002 Super Bowl. New England, a two-touchdown underdog, won that game 20-17..."We were aware of this before," Goodell said, referring to 2002 allegations. "We pursued it and weren't able to get any information that was credible.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7790584/Goodell-to-meet-with-Specter-on-Wednesday
****in cheaters!!
ohiobronco2
02-13-2008, 08:54 PM
Hopefully they take that 7th pick as well.
That One Guy
02-13-2008, 11:55 PM
This kinda originated at PFT but I went to the source of the article to appease the PFT haters. These coals just wouldn't go out and now I think the full blown flames are starting to appear again.
Senator Specter Says the Patriots Taped the Steelers Twice During 2004 Season
Well, it looks like Senator Arlen Specter didn't get around (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/01/goodell-explains-why-the-nfl-destroyed-evidence-specter-probab/) to talking about the NFL's antitrust exemption during today's meet-and-greet with commissioner Roger Goodell (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/RogerGoodell/). As Michael David Smith wrote earlier (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/13/roger-goodell-arlen-specter-say-bill-belichick-has-taped-patrio/), Specter learned that the Patriots have been videotaping opponents since 2000, something that wasn't clear when the league concluded its investigation in September.
In a post-meeting press conference, Specter elaborated. The senator said that "there were notes showing that the Steelers games had been taped." Specifically, two contests during the 2004 season: one on Oct. 31, and the other, the AFC Championship, on Jan. 27.
A couple of things worth pointing out: Pittsburgh smoked the Patriots (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=27021&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2004&week=REG8) in the first meeting, 34-20, sacking Tom Brady (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/TomBrady/) four times and picking him off twice. Three months later, the two teams met in the conference finals. Unsurprisingly (in hindsight), the Patriots won 41-27, and Brady, sacked just twice in the rematch, finished 14 of 21 for 207 yards with two touchdowns and no interceptions.
Did New England gain an advantage from having videotaped Pittsburgh during the teams' first meeting? There isn't enough evidence to say that, yes, unequivocally the Patriots won because they had the Steelers' defensive signals. But it would also be naïve to suggest that having access to that information had no bearing on the outcome. If that were true, Matthew Estrella (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/MatthewEstrella/) (and Matt Walsh (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/MattWalsh/) before him) wouldn't have had a job.
Either way, this doesn't do much for the Patriots' legacy as one of the best teams in NFL history, and it doesn't do much for Roger Goodell's credibility.
I also wonder if Bill Cowher (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/BillCowher/) might want to reconsider his earlier thoughts (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/09/16/cowher-doesnt-think-belichick-cheated-during-afc-championship-g/) on the Steelers' other AFC Championship game against the Patriots
Paladin
02-14-2008, 12:44 AM
I would wish that the League would speed up the investigation about the taping of the Rams' workouts and take the other 1st away from them as well and maybe a second. Problem is that there are no tapes left, if Bellicheat is to be believed that all the tapes were turned over to be destroyed.
I can think of no other organization I would have wished this sort of stuff on than the Pats and their fans......
rovolution
02-14-2008, 12:56 AM
:pray: ... Thank you again, Lord, for SB XLII
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mD0vARpus-g&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mD0vARpus-g&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!
Vegas_Bronco
02-14-2008, 12:59 AM
I'm just sooooooooo glad we have a congress we can all trust......rofl! I'm glad they are taking their time on this and Roger Clemens, instead of working on our economic problems, social security, healthcare, and immigration problems. What would we do w/out them?
Bronco Jamus
02-14-2008, 01:15 AM
Or on the contrary you could say that he is taking the hit for everyone and just be done with it. It's practically a Biblical offering if you think about it. But then again, what else would expect from the greatest football coach the world has ever known.
Laughable. Bill is a cheat and a miserable human being. Hopefully he gets his life right, and I feel sorry for you.
fontaine
02-14-2008, 05:37 AM
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/13/senator-specter-says-the-patriots-taped-the-steelers-twice-durin/
Senator Specter Says the Patriots Taped the Steelers Twice During 2004 Season
Posted Feb 13th 2008 7:39PM by Ryan Wilson
Filed under: Patriots, Steelers, AFC East, AFC North, NFL Fans, Featured Stories
In a post-meeting press conference, Specter elaborated. The senator said that "there were notes showing that the Steelers games had been taped." Specifically, two contests during the 2004 season: one on Oct. 31, and the other, the AFC Championship, on Jan. 27.
A couple of things worth pointing out: Pittsburgh smoked the Patriots in the first meeting, 34-20, sacking Tom Brady four times and picking him off twice. Three months later, the two teams met in the conference finals. Unsurprisingly (in hindsight), the Patriots won 41-27, and Brady, sacked just twice in the rematch, finished 14 of 21 for 207 yards with two touchdowns and no interceptions.
Those were some great adjustments right?
**** you New England and Belichick. I hope he gets fired and a lifetime ban from the sport.
fontaine
02-14-2008, 05:42 AM
Or on the contrary you could say that he is taking the hit for everyone and just be done with it. It's practically a Biblical offering if you think about it. But then again, what else would expect from the greatest football coach the world has ever known.
It must really bother you that your cheating team couldn't beat the Broncos even with all that video tape.
It must suck to realize the super bowl legacy of your team is now held in the same regard as one of Barry Bonds roid filled turds.
BroncoBuff
02-14-2008, 05:45 AM
It must really bother you that your cheating team couldn't beat the Broncos even with all that video tape.
That's a good point. Through all the Patriots' 21st-Century successes, the Broncos have really had their number. The only win NE managed in maybe 6 games was that very, very close 2002 MNF'er in Invesco.
Ahh, I'll bet Shanahan just has a habit of altering the hand-signals from the sideline, like they do in baseball. That'd explain it. :~ohyah!:
Take it for what it's worth considering the source but I read a report on pft that Belichick threatened to talk disclose all information about video taping in the NFL that's been going on for years, even when he was staff with other coaches if Goodell kept probing with spygate. Basically throwing the entire game into disrepute.
Knowing Belichick that's exactly what you would expect him to do.
Supposedly thats why Goodell destroyed the tape as well, Belichick had put a ton of video footage from other teams on there.
Does anyone think Goodell wants to go back and drag Parcells' name through the mud when in reality basically every team has been doing the same thing?
The filming of defensive signals is pretty small potatoes, some teams do it with a 3rd string QB, some with a "special assistant" coach, some tape it and I'm sure the last group is much larger than just the Pats.
What the NFL should be looking into is how often opposing teams have had headset issues in New England. I'd say at the very least NE is intentionally jamming their frequencies, if not even going so far to listen in to them.
BroncoBuff
02-14-2008, 06:34 AM
Supposedly thats why Goodell destroyed the tape as well, Belichick had put a ton of video footage from other teams on there.
Does anyone think Goodell wants to go back and drag Parcells' name through the mud when in reality basically every team has been doing the same thing?
The filming of defensive signals is pretty small potatoes, some teams do it with a 3rd string QB, some with a "special assistant" coach, some tape it and I'm sure the last group is much larger than just the Pats.
What the NFL should be looking into is how often opposing teams have had headset issues in New England. I'd say at the very least NE is intentionally jamming their frequencies, if not even going so far to listen in to them.
I'm not on board with "minimizing" the whole thing, saying everybody does it, because the punishment was a real hammer ... a 1st round pick and half a million dollars? From Belichick personally? Doesn't sound like 'everybody does it' to me ...
How much 'behind-the-scenes' stuff like this is going on ... stuff fans don't see? Because you gotta believe that the Neno-Green dot on the QBs helmets has some VERY interesting stories behind it ... prolly some very pissy behind the scenes accusations, etc. I myself, and most people around here based on the threads, kinda scratched their heads at that green dot.
You gotta wonder now why that FORMER-Patriot videotape guy won't talk (said he's been "advised" not to). Prollem is, with stuff like this "no comment" means there's something to comment about. If he hadn't filmed the Rams walk-through, he would simply say "No, it's all BS."
BroncoBuff
02-14-2008, 06:38 AM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1397/1188128563_7a10d0a331_m.jpg
There's a few interesting spy stories behind this I'll bet ...
fontaine
02-14-2008, 07:47 AM
Supposedly thats why Goodell destroyed the tape as well, Belichick had put a ton of video footage from other teams on there.
Does anyone think Goodell wants to go back and drag Parcells' name through the mud when in reality basically every team has been doing the same thing?
The filming of defensive signals is pretty small potatoes, some teams do it with a 3rd string QB, some with a "special assistant" coach, some tape it and I'm sure the last group is much larger than just the Pats.
I'm not buying that.
Former coaches like Vermeil have come out and said that you try to read the defensive signals by having spys, guys with binoculars etc. But the difference here is the actual videotaping, cataloguing and storage AS WELL AS sending copies of those tapes to teams like the Raiders before the Pats played them since 2002 at least.
There's a world of difference there and it's what got the Pats into trouble in the first place.
If it comes out that the majority of the teams also videotape then you have a point. But right now you don't because in all this investigation and scrutiny so far only one team and one coach has been looked into on that cheating front.
fontaine
02-14-2008, 07:50 AM
The other problem with minimizing this is the fact that New England got an unfair advantage in the SuperBowl/playoffs since they videotaped walkthroughs and the other teams didn't.
That right there is enough evidence to show that those SuperBowls are tainted.
And before you say that the team in the playoffs could have done it to New England? Well it's pretty well known around the league that Belichick runs closed practices where no one outside the team etc are allowed leading right up to playoff/SuperBowl games.
No wonder the cheating slob was paranoid.
broncosteven
02-14-2008, 10:31 AM
What year was it that the Pat's had a string of 18 (or was it 21?) wins in a row over 2 seasons?
It is easy to win if you cheat.
I don't mind Patswin2002 but maybe he should change his username to Patscheat200-2007? LOL
PatsWin2002
02-14-2008, 12:55 PM
I don't mind Patswin2002 but maybe he should change his username to Patscheat200-2007? LOL
Pez will probably do that when he changes my birth date. :)
I wish congress would stay out of sports -- isnt there something more important they should be doing with their time?
broncosteven
02-14-2008, 02:12 PM
I wish congress would stay out of sports -- isnt there something more important they should be doing with their time?
Your right, legislating Monopolies is none of their business.
epicSocialism4tw
02-14-2008, 05:11 PM
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/13/senator-specter-says-the-patriots-taped-the-steelers-twice-durin/
Those were some great adjustments right?
**** you New England and Belichick. I hope he gets fired and a lifetime ban from the sport.
Wow.
The Pats just went from being the greatest team of all-time to the biggest black-eye on the NFL of all-time.
epicSocialism4tw
02-14-2008, 05:12 PM
It must really bother you that your cheating team couldn't beat the Broncos even with all that video tape.
It must suck to realize the super bowl legacy of your team is now held in the same regard as one of Barry Bonds roid filled turds.
You know, Shanny changes the playbook before every game.
No wonder Belicheat couldnt beat the Broncos.
I dont know if I've ever been prouder to have Shanahan as our coach.
epicSocialism4tw
02-14-2008, 05:15 PM
It also makes one suspicious as to why Belicheck and Mangini were at such odds when Mangini left.
TomServo
02-14-2008, 05:54 PM
I wish congress would stay out of sports -- isnt there something more important they should be doing with their time?
because baseball and football obviously cant police themselves. baseball didnt do a damn thing about steroids til congrees threatend their monopoly.
how many people cant get the nfl network? if congress doesnt step in occasionaly and threaten the monoply the leagues wont do a damn thing for the fans. like punish cheating.
because baseball and football obviously cant police themselves. baseball didnt do a damn thing about steroids til congrees threatend their monopoly.
how many people cant get the nfl network? if congress doesnt step in occasionaly and threaten the monoply the leagues wont do a damn thing for the fans. like punish cheating.
This is not about the NFL network... Man, I hate that station...horrible for the NFL in the long term.
But WHEN THE HELL HAS CONGRESS DOES SOMETHING that we could all cheer about? To me it is about grand-standing, and getting air time for folks that are already craving power and popularity -- it is not about fixing the NFL -- they will just muck it up.
TomServo
02-14-2008, 06:57 PM
because baseball and football are granted legal monopolies by congress. congress is the last authority to get things corrected when the leagues refuse to do so.
the nfl network isnt that great but the point is some people(not me)cant get the games without investing in a dish. football wasnt granted a monopoly so the league could make money by screwing over their fanbase.
would baseball even have their half assed steroid policy w/out congress?