Chargers realize Rivers sucks LOL

[ICON]

http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=53988


NY Giants have a 26 year old QB with healthy knees and SB ring
Pittsburgh Steelers have 26 year old with healthy knees and SB ring

San Diego Chargers have 26 years old QB with bad knees and no SB ring.

What is the question again?:wiggle:

so many funny Threads

Why didn't we get pressure on Brady like the Giants?

2004 draft trade in review now

Disappointing fact about us losing to the Pats...

Funny Giant fans bashin Rivers!!

Who would you rather have?Eli Manning over Phillip Rivers

[Drek]

Sad thing is Rivers has better talent around him than either Ben or Eli, and he's had it both starting seasons without the playoff results of either.

[-Slap-]

"We as san diego sport fans in general deserve a championship and I have a feeling it will come soon."

ROFL!

[Merlin]

Sad thing is Rivers has better talent around him than either Ben or Eli, and he's had it both starting seasons without the playoff results of either.
Far better supporting cast, was given 3 turnovers, and did substantially less with them. Rivers is slightly above avg and thats it. It is amazing SD fans still think of him as a pro-bowl QB. He only does well against poor Ds (hello Denver). But time and time again he has been exposed by decent Ds.

[Inkana7]

"We as san diego sport fans in general deserve a championship and I have a feeling it will come soon."

ROFL!

My personal favorite:

lol, I know that! i'm just speaking in terms of where both of the teams are right now, Eli has a ring and rivers doesn't. But the thing is, if eli was on the chargers, we would never make the playoffs because the giants don't rely on Eli to lead them, they rely on their defense and big physical running backs. We rely on river's leadership and toughness. Both teams got what they need.

[Spider]

My personal favorite:

big physical running backs. We rely on river's leadership and toughness. Both teams got what they need.

did this ass clown just say the G men have better running backs then LT ?
did I read that part right ?

[Inkana7]

did this ass clown just say the G men have better running backs then LT ?
did I read that part right ?

Yeah. I think Charger nation is oblivious to the fact that they're stacked, but keep choking.

[Spider]

Yeah. I think Charger nation is oblivious to the fact that they're stacked, but keep choking.

:thumbsup: . it all boils down to defense in the end

[Merlin]

did this ass clown just say the G men have better running backs then LT ?
did I read that part right ?
Not only that, but he is also suggesting they have a better D. I would take SDs D and skill players (except QB) over the Giant's in a NY minute.

PS Needles to say, I'll pass on their coaching as well.

[Spider]

Not only that, but he is also suggesting they have a better D. I would take SDs D and skill players (except QB) over the Giant's in a NY minute. I wouldnt go that far , the Gmens D may not be more talented , but they play better as a group ....

PS Needles to say, I'll pass on their coaching as well.
This I agree with 100%

[Merlin]

I wouldnt go that far , the Gmens D may not be more talented , but they play better as a group ....


This I agree with 100%
Thus the second line ;)

[broncofan2438]

AHAHAHAAH, thats true, Rivers and Sun Diego are hating life

[boltaneer]

Strange...

I didn't have a problem with Rivers play in the AFC Championship game. The guy was playing with one leg and was getting hit as often as Brady was this past Sunday. Yeah, there were red zone problems in that game. Many here are always the first to point the finger at Shanahan with the Bronco's red zone problems this season, and not at Cutler. IMO the red zone play calling was terrible against the Patriots. Rivers played very well in the two playoff wins and in the final games of the regular season so it's definitely good to see that he appears to be grasping Norv's offense after struggling with it for a good portion of the season.

He took his team to the AFC Championship in his second year starting. Big Ben now has four years starting under their belt and Elisha has three and a half so they have had a bit of a head start. Two Super Bowl wins, two AFC Championship appearances and eight combined playoff appearances (out of ten possible if you count Eli's half season) by the three of them. The 2004 QB draft class is looking very strong.

[Dedhed]

Rivers has been extremely fortunate to take every snap of his NFL career surrounded by the best roster in football. As the Bolts start to lose some of that talent to retirement and FA, the perception of Rivers will decline precipitously. Chargers fans don't want to see what will happen when things don't go River's way; his yapper will get him in trouble and divide a locker room quicker than Strahan, Umenyiora, Alford, and Tuck can get to Tom Brady.

He's an immature hot head who lacks the poise to lead a team to a championship. He's every bit as talented as Manning with a better team, but Eli exeplifies everything that Rivers is not. Calm under pressure, stoic, calculating, and poised. Rivers makes the jobs of his teammates more difficult where Championship QBs do the exact opposite.

[TheReverend]

Strange...

I didn't have a problem with Rivers play in the AFC Championship game. The guy was playing with one leg and was getting hit as often as Brady was this past Sunday. Yeah, there were red zone problems in that game. Many here are always the first to point the finger at Shanahan with the Bronco's red zone problems this season, and not at Cutler. IMO the red zone play calling was terrible against the Patriots. Rivers played very well in the two playoff wins and in the final games of the regular season so it's definitely good to see that he appears to be grasping Norv's offense after struggling with it for a good portion of the season.

He took his team to the AFC Championship in his second year starting. Big Ben now has four years starting under their belt and Elisha has three and a half so they have had a bit of a head start. Two Super Bowl wins, two AFC Championship appearances and eight combined playoff appearances (out of ten possible if you count Eli's half season) by the three of them. The 2004 QB draft class is looking very strong.

You can't fault Ben and Eli for being ready to play sooner than Phyllis.

[sirhcyennek81]

"We as san diego sport fans in general deserve a championship and I have a feeling it will come soon."

ROFL!


Dont they have surfing competitions in san diego? Championship...:thumbs:


:Broncos:

[400HZ]

You can't fault Ben and Eli for being ready to play sooner than Phyllis.

Drew Brees started playing very good ball when Rivers got drafted. Kurt Warner and Tommy Maddox sucked the year they got replaced.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Rivers has a weak arm and limited mobility.

He's tall and accurate and has passion. Those are his only real good points.

[400HZ]

Rivers has been extremely fortunate to take every snap of his NFL career surrounded by the best roster in football. As the Bolts start to lose some of that talent to retirement and FA, the perception of Rivers will decline precipitously. Chargers fans don't want to see what will happen when things don't go River's way; his yapper will get him in trouble and divide a locker room quicker than Strahan, Umenyiora, Alford, and Tuck can get to Tom Brady.

He's an immature hot head who lacks the poise to lead a team to a championship. He's every bit as talented as Manning with a better team, but Eli exeplifies everything that Rivers is not. Calm under pressure, stoic, calculating, and poised. Rivers makes the jobs of his teammates more difficult where Championship QBs do the exact opposite.

Phillip played the best game of his career thus far (against Indy) without that talent around him that you attribute his success too.

[400HZ]

Rivers has a weak arm and limited mobility.

He's tall and accurate and has passion. Those are his only real good points.

Coming straight from the OM's foremost QB expert..

How's that fantastic QB situation that you told us about working out in KC?

[Spider]

Rivers has a weak arm and limited mobility.

He's tall and accurate and has passion. Those are his only real good points.

this comming from the same ass hat that put Croyle on the same level as Cutler ......

[HorseHead]

Venus di Milo has a better arm then Rivers....

[boltaneer]

Rivers has been extremely fortunate to take every snap of his NFL career surrounded by the best roster in football. As the Bolts start to lose some of that talent to retirement and FA, the perception of Rivers will decline precipitously.

Who's retiring or leaving? Lorenzo Neal might get cut because Andrew Pinnock outplayed Neal when he got his chance and is 10+ years younger than him. I think Eric Parker still makes the roster but he might get dumped because of the numbers game with Buster Davis and Naanee in the mix now.

Chambers isn't retiring anytime soon. Neither is Vincent Jackson. Gates? No. Mike Goff might leave but the rest of the o-line is already locked up with the exception of McNeill and from what I understand they're trying to lock him up soon.

LT has a couple of years before he hits thirty. That's usually the dreaded number but the special backs can usually go a couple of more years past that.

Chargers fans don't want to see what will happen when things don't go River's way; his yapper will get him in trouble and divide a locker room quicker than Strahan, Umenyiora, Alford, and Tuck can get to Tom Brady.

I guess you didn't hear the comments from Rivers' teammates after the New England game. He solidified his place as a leader and earned a ton of respect in that locker room. And all they did after that game was vote him the team's most inspirational player for the season.

He's an immature hot head who lacks the poise to lead a team to a championship. He's every bit as talented as Manning with a better team, but Eli exeplifies everything that Rivers is not. Calm under pressure, stoic, calculating, and poised. Rivers makes the jobs of his teammates more difficult where Championship QBs do the exact opposite.

Yeah, it was his mouth and a lack of poise that caused the Chargers to lose to the Patriots. Did you actually watch the game? This is like reading a Peter King article.

[Spider]

Yeah, it was his mouth and a lack of poise that caused the Chargers to lose to the Patriots. Did you actually watch the game? This is like reading a Peter King article.

I will let you get back to blowing Rivers in a minute , but no way in hell are you going to convience anyone with an IQ over 80 , that Rivers played as good against the Pats D as Eli Did ....... now I will let you get back to blowing Rivers

[Merlin]

He took his team to the AFC Championship in his second year starting. Big Ben now has four years starting under their belt and Elisha has three and a half so they have had a bit of a head start.
You guys keep on throwing this info as if he had not been in the NFL those first 2 years. The man has been in the NFL FOUR YEARS. He has only started two, but has been playing in it for 4. It would be idiotic to compare a rookie QB with a 3rd yr QB who is starting for the first time. One of them would have been mentored for 2 yrs, would have had practice experience for 2 yrs, would have coaching for 2 yrs, would have had an opportunity to learn for 2 years. Does he have the experience of a QB that has played for 4 years? No, but he certainly has far more experience than who has been in the league for only 2 years.

Now as to his accomplishments, he has accomplished far less with far more talent than Ben or Eli (at both ends of the ball). His play has not been getting better, he deteriorated from his best playing last yr. He will not be much better than avg, and as long as your measure is against mediocre Ds (such as Denver's), then you will have no understanding of his inabilities. To make matters worse, he does not have the demeanour that leads to greatness (or to very good for that matter). His mouth will continue to cost your team, and will only get worse as he continues, especially as others have to pay the cheques he writes.

PS I was happy about the performance of your team this playoff. You accomplished little (especially considering your talent), and have guaranteed the coaching staff and QB will remain for at least another 2 yrs. All great news for Denver, since it needs all the help it can get for now.

[Merlin]

I guess you didn't hear the comments from Rivers' teammates after the New England game. He solidified his place as a leader and earned a ton of respect in that locker room. And all they did after that game was vote him the team's most inspirational player for the season.
You must be one of those people who believes ads, politicians, and books. That is a clear example of circling the wagons to try and protect your idiotic "leader". Now as to inspirational, when you see what LT did, and then Rivers guts it out, then I can understand, but that does not stop him from being a moron that better learn to grow up (not likely, he is not a kid) or it will cost your team (do you honestly not think defensive players after hearing his crap over time are not bound to play more vicious, maybe accidentally hurt one of the SD players in the process?)

[boltaneer]

You must be one of those people who believes ads, politicians, and books. That is a clear example of circling the wagons to try and protect your idiotic "leader". Now as to inspirational, when you see what LT did, and then Rivers guts it out, then I can understand, but that does not stop him from being a moron that better learn to grow up (not likely, he is not a kid) or it will cost your team (do you honestly not think defensive players after hearing his crap over time are not bound to play more vicious, maybe accidentally hurt one of the SD players in the process?)

When his "antics" cost the team a game, I'll be concerned.

[Black96WS6]

LoL! This thread is hilarious! Leave it to Donk fans LoL.

Yeah, that trade was terrible, getting Rivers, Merrimen, Kaeding, etc for Eli was bad!

Oh, and it's not like Eli has 32+ more starts than Rivers LOL!

What a bunch of --> :homer: :homer: :homer:

[wabbit]

LoL! This thread is hilarious! Leave it to Donk fans LoL.

Yeah, that trade was terrible, getting Rivers, Merrimen, Kaeding, etc for Eli was bad!

Oh, and it's not like Eli has 32+ more starts than Rivers LOL!

What a bunch of --> :homer: :homer: :homer:

Imagine that...and on a Bronco Board no less.

Who do we think we are anyway??

The nerve...geez.

[Spider]

LoL! This thread is hilarious! Leave it to Donk fans LoL.

Yeah, that trade was terrible, getting Rivers, Merrimen, Kaeding, etc for Eli was bad!

Oh, and it's not like Eli has 32+ more starts than Rivers LOL!

What a bunch of --> :homer: :homer: :homer:

LOL nice spin , but even Charger fan should have seen Eli came through , Rivers didnt ......little over 2 minutes left in the SB , needing a TD to win , 83 yards away . thats the **** legends are made of .but then what does Charger fan know of Legendary QB's outside of Fouts ?

[BMF Bronco]

LoL! This thread is hilarious! Leave it to Donk fans LoL.

Yeah, that trade was terrible, getting Rivers, Merrimen, Kaeding, etc for Eli was bad!

Oh, and it's not like Eli has 32+ more starts than Rivers LOL!

What a bunch of --> :homer: :homer: :homer:

Eli = 1 ring > Rivers, Roidman, Choking when it counts in the playoff kaeding cominbed for 0 rings.

[400HZ]

You guys keep on throwing this info as if he had not been in the NFL those first 2 years. The man has been in the NFL FOUR YEARS. He has only started two, but has been playing in it for 4. It would be idiotic to compare a rookie QB with a 3rd yr QB who is starting for the first time. One of them would have been mentored for 2 yrs, would have had practice experience for 2 yrs, would have coaching for 2 yrs, would have had an opportunity to learn for 2 years. Does he have the experience of a QB that has played for 4 years? No, but he certainly has far more experience than who has been in the league for only 2 years.
There's no substitute for game experience.


Now as to his accomplishments, he has accomplished far less with far more talent than Ben or Eli (at both ends of the ball). His play has not been getting better, he deteriorated from his best playing last yr.

Phillip started off this year bad, as did the rest of the Charger offense. I'm just speculating here, but I think the new head coach and offensive and defensive coordinators might have created a bump in the road. You think? Maybe? He played very well in the second part of the season.


He will not be much better than avg, and as long as your measure is against mediocre Ds (such as Denver's), then you will have no understanding of his inabilities. To make matters worse, he does not have the demeanour that leads to greatness (or to very good for that matter). His mouth will continue to cost your team, and will only get worse as he continues, especially as others have to pay the cheques he writes.

I don't weigh Rivers against crap defenses like yours. I doubt Rivers weighs himself against crap defenses like yours. You're acting like he put up huge fluffy numbers against bad teams and then folded against better competition. Sorry, but you don't make it to the conference title game if that's how you truely play. Phillip had arguably his two best games of the year against very tough Tennessee and Indy defenses in the playoffs.

PS I was happy about the performance of your team this playoff. You accomplished little (especially considering your talent), and have guaranteed the coaching staff and QB will remain for at least another 2 yrs. All great news for Denver, since it needs all the help it can get for now.

I obviously wanted the Chargers to get to the Superbowl, but I was still happy with the performance of the team. There just wasn't enough gas left in the tank to beat New England. We didn't have the horses. Last year, SD underachieved. In 2004, SD underachieved. This year they won a game that nobody gave them a chance of winning (Indy), but with Rivers, LT, Gates, and Jamal Williams hurt they couldn't knock off New England. I don't see any reason to be ashamed of that.

[Inkana7]

LoL! This thread is hilarious! Leave it to Donk fans LoL.

Yeah, that trade was terrible, getting Rivers, Merrimen, Kaeding, etc for Eli was bad!

Oh, and it's not like Eli has 32+ more starts than Rivers LOL!

What a bunch of --> :homer: :homer: :homer:

http://media.2theadvocate.com/images/56.jpg

[BMF Bronco]

that's the colts, not the giants, but still gets the point across.

[Inkana7]

It's hard finding pictures at school.

[cutthemdown]

Chargers should be ashamed they just can never ever win it all. No matter how good they are they never win. IMO they have a good 2-3 yrs left with LT as the cornerstone so they aren't looking at a closed window yet, but LT isn't getting any younger.

[Inkana7]

LoL! This thread is hilarious! Leave it to Donk fans LoL.

Yeah, that trade was terrible, getting Rivers, Merrimen, Kaeding, etc for Eli was bad!

Oh, and it's not like Eli has 32+ more starts than Rivers LOL!

What a bunch of --> :homer: :homer: :homer:

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/football/nfl/img10617623.jpg

I'm sure Rivers, Merriman, and Kaeding were much more comfortable on the couch, though. So they have that going for them.

[BMF Bronco]

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/football/nfl/img10617623.jpg

I'm sure Rivers, Merriman, and Kaeding were much more comfortable on the couch, though. So they have that going for them.

Exactly!

[OABB]

I think it was a better trade than the one for babe ruth or pau gassol for what it's worth....

[boltaneer]

There's no substitute for game experience.

Phillip started off this year bad, as did the rest of the Charger offense. I'm just speculating here, but I think the new head coach and offensive and defensive coordinators might have created a bump in the road. You think? Maybe? He played very well in the second part of the season.

I don't weigh Rivers against crap defenses like yours. I doubt Rivers weighs himself against crap defenses like yours. You're acting like he put up huge fluffy numbers against bad teams and then folded against better competition. Sorry, but you don't make it to the conference title game if that's how you truely play. Phillip had arguably his two best games of the year against very tough Tennessee and Indy defenses in the playoffs.

I obviously wanted the Chargers to get to the Superbowl, but I was still happy with the performance of the team. There just wasn't enough gas left in the tank to beat New England. We didn't have the horses. Last year, SD underachieved. In 2004, SD underachieved. This year they won a game that nobody gave them a chance of winning (Indy), but with Rivers, LT, Gates, and Jamal Williams hurt they couldn't knock off New England. I don't see any reason to be ashamed of that.

Sums up my feelings exactly.

[DomCasual]

Rivers has more fire in his little finger than Eli Manning has in his whole body.

So from the trash talking perspective, Rivers is all over Eli.

Pretty much everything else, I'll take Eli.

But it's hard to measure the value of trash talking.

That's all I'm saying.

[NW Bolt Fan]

This forum should be greenmane. As in, green with envy. Classic to watch how much hatred for Rivers there is. Guy is a winner- but it is a team sport. Regardless, his offensive has scored more points and winning pct. than either Eli or Roth.

Both Eli and Roth have SB rings, and Rivers has only made the playoffs both years he started... Elway didn't manage to win everything for awhile either. Roth won the SB in spite of his team. Eli played a great game and deserves credit. However, as asked on another forum:

If Rivers, Kaeding, and Merriman played for NYG, and Eli played for SD, would SD have won the SB this year? Maybe. Maybe not.

But continue the green envy...er... hating. It's pretty entertaining.

[Spider]

This forum should be greenmane. As in, green with envy. Classic to watch how much hatred for Rivers there is. Guy is a winner- but it is a team sport. Regardless, his offensive has scored more points and winning pct. than either Eli or Roth.

Both Eli and Roth have SB rings, and Rivers has only made the playoffs both years he started... Elway didn't manage to win everything for awhile either. Roth won the SB in spite of his team. Eli played a great game and deserves credit. However, as asked on another forum:

If Rivers, Kaeding, and Merriman played for NYG, and Eli played for SD, would SD have won the SB this year? Maybe. Maybe not.

But continue the green envy...er... hating. It's pretty entertaining.
First Charger fan I ever meet that isnt full of **** , or retarded ,i will buy them dinner

[lifeafter elway]

Elway didn't play on a team with the talent the chargers have.
The Chargers have the talent to get it done, and when they don't, like with every team - its the QBs fault. Thats not unique to Phillup these nutz, but standard with every playoff caliber team.

And if I am not supposed to enjoy his failure - then sue me.



This forum should be greenmane. As in, green with envy. Classic to watch how much hatred for Rivers there is. Guy is a winner- but it is a team sport. Regardless, his offensive has scored more points and winning pct. than either Eli or Roth.

Both Eli and Roth have SB rings, and Rivers has only made the playoffs both years he started... Elway didn't manage to win everything for awhile either. Roth won the SB in spite of his team. Eli played a great game and deserves credit. However, as asked on another forum:

If Rivers, Kaeding, and Merriman played for NYG, and Eli played for SD, would SD have won the SB this year? Maybe. Maybe not.

But continue the green envy...er... hating. It's pretty entertaining.

[DomCasual]

This forum should be greenmane. As in, green with envy. Classic to watch how much hatred for Rivers there is. Guy is a winner- but it is a team sport. Regardless, his offensive has scored more points and winning pct. than either Eli or Roth.

Both Eli and Roth have SB rings, and Rivers has only made the playoffs both years he started... Elway didn't manage to win everything for awhile either. Roth won the SB in spite of his team. Eli played a great game and deserves credit. However, as asked on another forum:

If Rivers, Kaeding, and Merriman played for NYG, and Eli played for SD, would SD have won the SB this year? Maybe. Maybe not.

But continue the green envy...er... hating. It's pretty entertaining.

Yeah, we're envious.

Tell me this. If you could do a trade tomorrow, Jay Cutler straight up for Phillip Rivers - would you do it?

And, maybe a better question - how many of the 32 NFL teams would prefer Rivers to Cutler? I'm going to go out on a limb, and say - oh, this is so close - zero?

[DomCasual]

Elway didn't play on a team with the talent the chargers have.
The Chargers have the talent to get it done, and when they don't, like with every team - its the QBs fault. Thats not unique to Phillup these nutz, but standard with every playoff caliber team.

And if I am not supposed to enjoy his failure - then sue me.

Well, let's not get carried away. I would agree with your statement if you qualified it this way: "Prior to 1996, Elway didn't play on a team with the talent the Chargers have." But the last three years of his career, the Broncos were loaded.

[lifeafter elway]

no i agree there - i was referring to his comment that it took so long for elway to win, but in elways first 5-6 years, the broncos where not an overwhelmingly talented team.

the last 3 - 4 are another story completely.

[WolfpackGuy]

Could Rivers be on a Super Bowl team one day? Probably<br>
Could Rivers CARRY a team to the Super Bowl? HELL NO<br>
I think the Elway/Rivers nonsense can stop now

[Spider]

Yeah, we're envious.

Tell me this. If you could do a trade tomorrow, Jay Cutler straight up for Phillip Rivers - would you do it?


hell yes I would in a heart beat ....... rumor has it , that the more games you lose , the better the draft pick ;D

[boltaneer]

Here's a question:

Since this arguement is all about the ring, would Bronco fans trade Cutler for Eli or Big Ben?

[BMF Bronco]

irrelevant.

The main point here is that Eli and fil were traded for one another, one has a ring, the other doesn't.

[Black96WS6]

LOL nice spin , but even Charger fan should have seen Eli came through , Rivers didnt ......little over 2 minutes left in the SB , needing a TD to win , 83 yards away . thats the **** legends are made of .but then what does Charger fan know of Legendary QB's outside of Fouts ?

LOL

Hilarious, you're right, what were we thinking? It's not like Rivers had 2 bad knees, 1 completely gone or anything, he SUCKS LOL!!

[boltaneer]

irrelevant.

The main point here is that Eli and fil were traded for one another, one has a ring, the other doesn't.


No, just answer the question.

Obviously, Rivers is a talentless scrub since he couldn't win a Super Bowl in two years and Big Ben and Eli are kings since they did. But Cutler is a god on this board so I'm curious to know if anyone would make that trade here.

[Black96WS6]

Here's a question:

Since this arguement is all about the ring, would Bronco fans trade Cutler for Eli or Big Ben?


Excellent point.

Yeah, hey, since Trent Dilfer has a ring, and Cutler doesn't, I guess that means Trent is a better QB than Cutler, right?

Hilarious. I love this board.

It should be called BitterMane. ROFL!

[Bronx33]

When his "antics" cost the team a game, I'll be concerned.


Patience grasshopper you will be begging for volek next year but just like this year norv will be to stupid to bench him.

[BMF Bronco]

No, just answer the question.

Obviously, Rivers is a talentless scrub since he couldn't win a Super Bowl in two years and Big Ben and Eli are kings since they did. But Cutler is a god on this board so I'm curious to know if anyone would make that trade here.

Nope, Cutler will be on par as well. Cutler has as strong an arm without being as prone to injury as worthlessburger and will hopefully develop like Eli did over the second half of this year.

[BMF Bronco]

Excellent point.

Yeah, hey, since Trent Dilfer has a ring, and Cutler doesn't, I guess that means Trent is a better QB than Cutler, right?

Hilarious. I love this board.

It should be called BitterMane. ROFL!

You truly are as dumb as you come off arent you?

At least when Bolt posed a question, it had some relevance, you're slinging **** to a wall to see what sticks.

[Williams]

Rivers really takes a brutal thrashing around these parts.

FWIW, I dont think he's all that awful. Truthfully, if he didn’t have fragile legs and could get his mental maturity issues resolved… I wouldnt mind having him in Denver backing up Cutler.

[Black96WS6]

You truly are as dumb as you come off arent you?

At least when Bolt posed a question, it had some relevance, you're slinging **** to a wall to see what sticks.

Ah, hit a nerve, did I?

Don't make me bring up Craig Morton now! ;)

Craig Morton - DENVER - SB XII
Morton wasn't a bad quarterback. You don't play 18 years in the NFL by being a loser. Morton had several fine seasons, and 1979 was one of them. In Super Bowl XII, though, Morton had probably the worst game of any player in Super Bowl history, throwing as many interceptions as completions (4) and compiling a 0.0 passer rating. Morton also played very badly in Super Bowl V.

Oh, and some more Dilfer fun:

Trent Dilfer (BAL), XXXV
Dilfer's Ravens pounded Collins and the Giants in Super Bowl XXXV, but that was in spite of Dilfer, not because of him. Few quarterbacks have been consistently mediocre for as long as Dilfer, and not even a handful have been less impressive in Super Bowl victories. Dilfer completed under half his passes, threw for only six first downs, and made several memorably bad throws that missed open receivers.

[Bronx33]

This forum should be greenmane. As in, green with envy. Classic to watch how much hatred for Rivers there is. Guy is a winner- but it is a team sport. Regardless, his offensive has scored more points and winning pct. than either Eli or Roth.

Both Eli and Roth have SB rings, and Rivers has only made the playoffs both years he started... Elway didn't manage to win everything for awhile either. Roth won the SB in spite of his team. Eli played a great game and deserves credit. However, as asked on another forum:

If Rivers, Kaeding, and Merriman played for NYG, and Eli played for SD, would SD have won the SB this year? Maybe. Maybe not.

But continue the green envy...er... hating. It's pretty entertaining.



HUH? 2 rings to ZERO ya were jealous.

[BMF Bronco]

Ah, hit a nerve, did I?

Don't make me bring up Craig Morton now! ;)



Oh, and some more Dilfer fun:

no, just pointing out the obvious.

And bring Morton up, at least he made it to one. I give you Mark Malone, Billy Joe Tolliver, and best yet, Ryan Leaf. ROFL!

And how did humphries do in his super bowl appearance, or were you alive then?

[Spider]

LOL

Hilarious, you're right, what were we thinking? It's not like Rivers had 2 bad knees, 1 completely gone or anything, he SUCKS LOL!!

Well ya dumb bastard , he has 2 bad knees , Eli doesnt , that alone should tell your monkey ass who is better ........
like having 2 race cars and one breaks down all the time , the other doesnt ..... How ****ing stupid can you be ?

[400HZ]

Yeah, we're envious.

Tell me this. If you could do a trade tomorrow, Jay Cutler straight up for Phillip Rivers - would you do it?

And, maybe a better question - how many of the 32 NFL teams would prefer Rivers to Cutler? I'm going to go out on a limb, and say - oh, this is so close - zero?

What exactly has Cutler accomplished?

I'd take Rivers, no question.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Rivers: 4-0 vs. Denver. Cutlet: 0-3 vs. SD...

Sure, we'd LOVE to have cutlet... Right.

[gunns]

He took his team to the AFC Championship in his second year starting.

That statement is as stupid as when posters on here were saying Plummer took us to the AFC Championship. A QB who takes his team somewhere does it all year long. Rivers has one of the lowest QB ratings in the league and one the best teams around him in the league. The only ones lower are those that didn't start the whole season....and Vince Young. Keep making excuses for him, keep pointing out his select good games....you'll make Bronco fans very happy.

[JJJ]

You guys should beat Rivers at least once before pounding his ass so hard.

Really, he is 4-0 against the Broncos and 3-0 against Cutler, 3 of 4 pretty much in blowouts.

Would I trade Rivers for Cutler. Yes, Cutler has more upside.

Would I rather have Eli than Rivers. Nope.

Give Eli his props no doubt, but lets be a realistic with Eli. He threw up at least 3 or 4 balls in that 4th quarter that rightly should have been picked off including that hail mary and he just as easily could have been aw-shucking and kicking the turf at the end of that game and had the loser for life tag still on his neck.

Putting up only 17 points, albiet that being more than Rivers did twice this season against the Pats, is still nothing to write home about.

[400HZ]

You guys should beat Rivers at least once before pounding his ass so hard.

Really, he is 4-0 against the Broncos and 3-0 against Cutler, 3 of 4 pretty much in blowouts.

Would I trade Rivers for Cutler. Yes, Cutler has more upside.

Would I rather have Eli than Rivers. Nope.

Give Eli his props no doubt, but lets be a realistic with Eli. He threw up at least 3 or 4 balls in that 4th quarter that rightly should have been picked off including that hail mary and he just as easily could have been aw-shucking and kicking the turf at the end of that game and had the loser for life tag still on his neck.

Putting up only 17 points, albiet that being more than Rivers did twice this season against the Pats, is still nothing to write home about.

So does Jeff George, if you like the all arm/no brains type.

[Blueflame]

HUH? 2 rings to ZERO ya were jealous.

No doubt... 4 division teams; only one with an empty trophy case... and we're jealous? Uh... no. We're doing a public service trying to save Boltz fans from their own massive overconfidence. You don't have a Lombardi. And with Norv at the helm, few objective football fans expect you to win one. But you'll still delude yourselves in '08 and crash mightily to earth once reality slaps you upside the head, whether that's via a playoff loss or via not making the playoffs at all. :~ohyah!: :P

[Spider]

Rivers: 4-0 vs. Denver. Cutlet: 0-3 vs. SD...

Sure, we'd LOVE to have cutlet... Right.

LOL and this has what to do with eli being better then Rivers ? I am laughing at the Chargers for trying ot get Eli , then taking it in the ass with a QB like rivers ...........

[Bronx33]

Rivers: 4-0 vs. Denver. Cutlet: 0-3 vs. SD...

Sure, we'd LOVE to have cutlet... Right.


You will be a KC fan before you know it they still yap about the 43-17 win in 04 (it's all they have)

[gunns]

No, just answer the question.

Obviously, Rivers is a talentless scrub since he couldn't win a Super Bowl in two years and Big Ben and Eli are kings since they did. But Cutler is a god on this board so I'm curious to know if anyone would make that trade here.

Nope we made our mistake in thinking Plummer was the guy and whenever he'd have a good game it only solidified that thinking. We were wrong, terribly wrong. Jay is already proven he's better, even better than Rivers. Keep thinking the way we did and pointing out those good games.

[boltaneer]

Rivers has one of the lowest QB ratings in the league and one the best teams around him in the league. The only ones lower are those that didn't start the whole season....and Vince Young. Keep making excuses for him, keep pointing out his select good games....you'll make Bronco fans very happy.

Rivers was ranked 18th this (regular) season. He was ranked 8th last year. At no point has he ever been near the bottom.

Eli Manning was ranked 25th and just above Vince Young in QB rating this year. This is how stupid quoting statistics can be.

Statistics can be good to understand things at time but you can't use it as the only measuring stick. Don't be a Bob.

[400HZ]

No, just answer the question.

Obviously, Rivers is a talentless scrub since he couldn't win a Super Bowl in two years and Big Ben and Eli are kings since they did. But Cutler is a god on this board so I'm curious to know if anyone would make that trade here.

A blinding flash of the obvious...

Here's another one.

"The only reason Rivers wins because of the talent around him."
"The only reason Cutler doesn't win is because of the talent around him."

[NW Bolt Fan]

So does Jeff George, if you like the all arm/no brains type.:rofl: donks love cutlet. Just like they loved Plummer. Just like they loved Griese. The love fest will continue for another couple years- then they'll realize again how great Elway was, and how they'll continue to suck because he'll never be replicated.

[Bronx33]

So does Jeff George, if you like the all arm/no brains type.


So that would rivers the all mouth/a no arm type. ;D

[boltaneer]

Jay is already proven he's better, even better than Rivers.

?

[Bronx33]

:rofl: donks love cutlet. Just like they loved Plummer. Just like they loved Griese. The love fest will continue for another couple years- then they'll realize again how great Elway was, and how they'll continue to suck because he'll never be replicated.


your an idiot...Hilarious!

[NW Bolt Fan]

You will be a KC fan before you know it.And you'll be a Charger fan.


Really we have enough morons on the bandwagon, but it seems there is never ending room...

[NW Bolt Fan]

your an idiot...Hilarious!You're an imbecile. :kiss:

[Blueflame]

You're an imbecile. :kiss:

And you're a cretin... :P

[Inkana7]

You're an imbecile. :kiss:

At least his point made sense. :)

[NW Bolt Fan]

So that would rivers the all mouth/a no arm type. ;DAt least he doesn't cry when the going gets rough.

[BMF Bronco]

:rofl: donks love cutlet. Just like they loved Plummer. Just like they loved Griese. The love fest will continue for another couple years- then they'll realize again how great Elway was, and how they'll continue to suck because he'll never be replicated.

And you'll love rivers until you realize that... Oh ****, I just realized, you have no Super Bowl quarterbacks to fall back on other than Humphries...

[Bronx33]

Don't change the fact..

[400HZ]

So that would rivers the all mouth/a no arm type. ;D

Are you drunk? ;D :flower:

[NW Bolt Fan]

And you're a cretin... :PMongoloid.:strong:

[Bronx33]

At least he doesn't cry when the going gets rough.


Rivers cries every game what's your point.

[Inkana7]

At least he doesn't cry when the going gets rough.

You're right, he cries and screams and makes an ass of himself no matter what the situation.

[Black96WS6]

I'm starting to think that some of you aren't joking, you actually think Rivers is a bad QB!

Let's see:

1st year starting: AFC West Division title, 1st-round bye, playoff game loss to NE.
2nd year starting (this year): AFC West Division title, 2 playoff wins, loss to NE.
3rd year starting (next year): TBD

Even those of you with serious :homer: glasses on must see that's a great start to a career! If you can't then there's no hope!

Also, regarding the worn-out "Rivers has more talent" issue - if that were true, an injured Rivers, with none of his offensive weapons was still able to pull out a victory, and he looked good doing so. Some of you even admitted that on here (I can go back and dig up those gameday threads if you want 8') ).

:approve:

[BMF Bronco]

Really we have enough morons on the bandwagon, but it seems there is never ending room...

Truer words have never been spoken! LOL Hilarious! LOL Hilarious! LOL Hilarious!

[NW Bolt Fan]

And you'll love rivers until you realize that... Oh ****, I just realized, you have no Super Bowl quarterbacks to fall back on other than Humphries...
Humphries was awesome. NO ONE stood in the pocket despite getting crushed better than that guy...

Elway was great. He won regardless of the coach and GM. Until you get someone who can draft in the early rounds, fix the O and D lines, and replace some of your artifacts on the team... Gonna continue to be some harsh seasons.

[Bronx33]

Next season is going to be great since rivers is already is going to the playoffs! right chuggerville.

[Black96WS6]

?

LOL my thoughts exactly.

http://crunchgear.com/wp-content/uploads/wtf_catw300h371_heottjstzm5z.jpg

[Blueflame]

Mongoloid.:strong:

Ignoramus... 8')

[NW Bolt Fan]

Next season is going to be great since rivers is already is going to the playoffs! right chuggerville.
Maybe you guys can get the wildcard.







Seriously. :spit:

[400HZ]

Next season is going to be great since rivers is already is going to the playoffs! right chuggerville.

The question is if it will take more than 8 wins to take the division this year. Hilarious!

[Bronx33]

Maybe you guys can get the wildcard.







Seriously. :spit:


Or maybe the chuggers..

[Bronx33]

The question is if it will take more than 8 wins to take the division this year. Hilarious!


That's right chuggerville talk it up it will make bringing this thread back next season all the better/fun.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Ignoramus... 8')Dolt.:blueflame

[NW Bolt Fan]

That's right chuggerville talk it up it will make bringing this thread back next season all the better/fun.
By all means- bring it up. Bring up anything I've written before.

[400HZ]

That's right chuggerville talk it up it will make bringing this thread back next season all the better/fun.

In the meantime we should bring up the preseason threads from this year. :thumbsup:

My favorite was:

"LT, meet Jimmy Kennedy and Sam Adams." :rofl:

[400HZ]

The Bailey/Bly Best CB Tandem in NFL History was pretty hilarious, too.

[gunns]

?

You point out two games (the Denver games) and suggest that makes Rivers a better QB. You guys state he TOOK you to the AFC Championship. Did he? Despite having much better talent around him (offensively and defensively), Rivers ends with 21 TD's 15 INT's, being sacked 22 times, Cutler ends the season with 20 TD's 14 INT's being sacked 27 times, yet Cutler ends with a higher QB rating in his first year starting. I wonder where the Chargers would be with Cutler at QB and where the Broncos would be with Rivers. Thank God I don't have to find out.

[Blueflame]

Dolt.:blueflame

Dunderhead... :~ohyah!:

[DomCasual]

:rofl: donks love cutlet. Just like they loved Plummer. Just like they loved Griese. The love fest will continue for another couple years- then they'll realize again how great Elway was, and how they'll continue to suck because he'll never be replicated.

I seem to remember Charger fans talking up Craig Whelihan ("Wheels! - Hilarious! You guys were calling him Wheels! And you weren't even trying to be ironic! Good times! Not bad times!).

When you stupidly talk about us "continuing to suck" - let's just keep it in perspective. Since Elway retired:

Broncos Winning Percentage: .576
Chargers Winning Percentage: .500

Broncos Playoff Years: 4
Charger Playoff Years: 3

You have one more playoff win than us, thanks to this year. But we've both played in an AFC Championship. And all that time, we've been "continuing to suck!" So, where does that put you?

I realize you probably weren't a fan prior to 2004. Still, I would hope you're smart enough to realize that some of us remember all the way back to 2003 - some of us even remember into the ancient 1990's, and stuff!

[boltaneer]

You point out two games (the Denver games) and suggest that makes Rivers a better QB.

No, I never said that at all. Must have been someone else.

You guys state he TOOK you to the AFC Championship. Did he? Despite having much better talent around him (offensively and defensively), Rivers ends with 21 TD's 15 INT's, being sacked 22 times, Cutler ends the season with 20 TD's 14 INT's being sacked 27 times, yet Cutler ends with a higher QB rating in his first year starting.

Obviously, that shows that Cutler is the better quarterback. ???

Thanks Bob.

[DomCasual]

One more thing. Let's think outside the box a little on this, and find a comparison.

I am a big Rockies fan. I have been since all the way back in 1993, before we even had the Internets.

Let's say I went into, say, some Braves messageboards, and started spouting the Rockies superiority - talking about how the Braves are going to "continue to suck." You know, like they have for the last four months, and stuff!

I guess that would make me sort of a douchebag. Someone might even be able to argue that I was embarrassing myself with such statements.

I'm just saying.

[Bronx33]

By all means- bring it up. Bring up anything I've written before.


Ok bob jr lets even see if your even around by then.ROFL!

[boltaneer]

One more thing. Let's think outside the box a little on this, and find a comparison.

I am a big Rockies fan. I have been since all the way back in 1993, before we even had the Internets.

Let's say I went into, say, some Braves messageboards, and started spouting the Rockies superiority - talking about how the Braves are going to "continue to suck." You know, like they have for the last four months, and stuff!

I guess that would make me sort of a douchebag. Someone might even be able to argue that I was embarrassing myself with such statements.

I'm just saying.

Just for the record, I think it's far too early to make any comparisons about who is better whether it be Rivers, Cutler, Eli, Big Ben.

It's all just banter for message board fans to debate about.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Dunderhead... :~ohyah!:Dufus.!Booya!

[NW Bolt Fan]

Ok bob jr lets even see if your even around by then.ROFL!I've been here since before you. Not as frequently, but I always come around. Win or lose.

[Paladin]

I've been here since before you. Not as frequently, but I always come around. Win or lose.

Why?

[NW Bolt Fan]

I seem to remember Charger fans talking up Craig Whelihan ("Wheels! - Hilarious! You guys were calling him Wheels! And you weren't even trying to be ironic! Good times! Not bad times!).

When you stupidly talk about us "continuing to suck" - let's just keep it in perspective. Since Elway retired:

Broncos Winning Percentage: .576
Chargers Winning Percentage: .500

Broncos Playoff Years: 4
Charger Playoff Years: 3

You have one more playoff win than us, thanks to this year. But we've both played in an AFC Championship. And all that time, we've been "continuing to suck!" So, where does that put you?

I realize you probably weren't a fan prior to 2004. Still, I would hope you're smart enough to realize that some of us remember all the way back to 2003 - some of us even remember into the ancient 1990's, and stuff!Check my join date moron. And yeah, I remember into the 90's too... Do you honestly remember someone trying to say "wheels" was good? C'mon. Plummer managed a good year when you still had some talent. Perhaps... PERHAPS... the "continuing to suck" statement was unfair.









Perhaps it was just premature.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Why?When you read for context, you won't even need to ask silly questions.

[DomCasual]

Check my join date moron. And yeah, I remember into the 90's too... Do you honestly remember someone trying to say "wheels" was good? C'mon. Plummer managed a good year when you still had some talent. Perhaps... PERHAPS... the "continuing to suck" statement was unfair.









Perhaps it was just premature.

Well, let's be realistic. Being on a messageboard and being a fan aren't really the same thing.

And yes, I did have Charger fan friends bragging up Whelihan - similar to Chiefs fans last year with Brodie Croyle. But, he's tall! And he throws a nice ball!

[NW Bolt Fan]

Well, let's be realistic. Being on a messageboard and being a fan aren't really the same thing.

And yes, I did have Charger fan friends bragging up Whelihan - similar to Chiefs fans last year with Brodie Croyle. But, he's tall! And he throws a nice ball!Then you'll agree when there's a difference between being hopeful and being realistic. NEVER did I think the wease was gonna light it up. I sure hoped he'd turn into a grocery clerk, SB MVP, but did not expect it.

I'm sure many thought the goofball you guys drafted 1st round @ QB while you still had ELWAY was going to eventually be a stud. Even the 2nd time around... :~ohyah!:

FTR, Rivers is good. Best QB we've had since Humphries. And I know many on here "seem" to be convinced cutlet is better than Plummer... But I'm not convinced yet. I thought he was going to be better than he's been... He may very well turn into a stud, but I just didn't see it last year- or prior. We'll see.

[Florida_Bronco]

FTR, Rivers is good. Best QB we've had since Humphries. That's really not saying much, since Brees was just about the only other real QB prospect you've had since Humphries.

[Blueflame]

Dufus.!Booya!

Moron... ;D

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Cutler > Rivers > Manning

[DomCasual]

Cutler>Manning(s)>Rivers>Cutler's old girlfriend>Anyone on the Chiefs

Fixed that for you.

[DomCasual]

I'm sure many thought the goofball you guys drafted 1st round @ QB while you still had ELWAY was going to eventually be a stud. Even the 2nd time around... :~ohyah!:

The only people who liked the drafting of Tommy Maddox were Dan Reeves and Tommy Maddox. And we never gave him a clever nickname - well, nothing suitable for family viewing, anyway.

[jutang]

Eli and Rivers are a wash for me. Both make questionable decisions 3-4 times a game and throw 1-2 passes a game where you think, "where was that ball going to!?" There are so off base even DB's can't predict where the ball was headed to. I think Manning has a more mature demeanor than Rivers, but Rivers has some great competitive fire, but his mentality is more suited for a DE or LB rather than QB.

I wouldn't have minded seeing the Chargers in the SB against the Giants just to watch Rivers crumble under pressure, piss in his pants, and shut him up for a long time.

[Dedhed]

Phillip played the best game of his career thus far (against Indy) without that talent around him that you attribute his success too.

So the entire defense didn't play against the Colts?

[Dedhed]

What exactly has Cutler accomplished?

I'd take Rivers, no question.

No you wouldn't, and you know it.

[boltaneer]

No you wouldn't, and you know it.

Let the man have his opinion.

I'd take Rivers as well. I agree with 400 when he asks what has Cutler accomplished?

I like his cannon for an arm but that's about it. I haven't been impressed with his decision making so far. He's young so he'll improve but right now Rivers is ahead of the game.

So the bottom line is that Bronco fans would take Cutler and Charger fans would take Rivers? What a surprise. :)

[400HZ]

No you wouldn't, and you know it.

So why ask the question if you're just going to tell me how I feel?

What has Cutler accomplished that makes him better than Rivers? Name one legit thing. During Cutler's tenure, how many good teams have the Broncos beaten? How many times have they been blown out? Tell me why I should want Cutler instead of Rivers.

[Florida_Bronco]

What has Cutler accomplished that makes him better than Rivers?

He started at the end of his rookie season, while Rivers didn't become a starter until his 3rd year in the league.

[Dedhed]

So why ask the question if you're just going to tell me how I feel?

What has Cutler accomplished that makes him better than Rivers? Name one legit thing. During Cutler's tenure, how many good teams have the Broncos beaten? How many times have they been blown out? Tell me why I should want Cutler instead of Rivers.
I didn't ask the question. Rivers is carried by the talent around him. Cutler is the talent.

[Punisher]

The G-men got the better trade im sorry ill take a Super Bowl over Rivers,Merriman anytime.

[400HZ]

He started at the end of his rookie season, while Rivers didn't become a starter until his 3rd year in the league.

And why is that, Florida_Bronco?

[Florida_Bronco]

And why is that, Florida_Bronco?

Because he was better than the starter, something Rivers can't claim.

[400HZ]

I didn't ask the question. Rivers is carried by the talent around him. Cutler is the talent.

Supposing that's true, how is it working out for Denver?

[400HZ]

Because he was better than the starter, something Rivers can't claim.

Who was the starter?

[theAPAOps5]

And why is that, Florida_Bronco?

Its impossible to make the comparison. Rivers has arguably the most talented team surrounding him. Cutler has a patchwork oline, a cast off DLine, a pot head RB, and one WR who speaks in 3rd person. I don't know how Cutler would be in San Diego but based on watching him the whole season I think it would be awesome. I also think Rivers benefited from sitting and watching while Cutler has to learn on the fly and try to meet Denver expectations.

[bayarealightning]

I didn't ask the question. Rivers is carried by the talent around him. Cutler is the talent.
According to the Bronco fans, Rivers cannot carry the Chargers and he is a product of the team around him. And Cutler carried the Broncos to... where was that exactly? Jay Cutler is great between the 20s.

[Florida_Bronco]

Who was the starter?

You know who the starters were, don't try to play that game with me.

[Dedhed]

Supposing that's true, how is it working out for Denver?
Knowing that's true, we'll see.

[400HZ]

Its impossible to make the comparison. Rivers has arguably the most talented team surrounding him. Cutler has a patchwork oline, a cast off DLine, a pot head RB, and one WR who speaks in 3rd person. I don't know how Cutler would be in San Diego but based on watching him the whole season I think it would be awesome. I also think Rivers benefited from sitting and watching while Cutler has to learn on the fly and try to meet Denver expectations.

Well 7-9 seemed to meet Denver expectations, based on your responses here.

[Dedhed]

According to the Bronco fans, Rivers cannot carry the Chargers and he is a product of the team around him. And Cutler carried the Broncos to... where was that exactly? Jay Cutler is great between the 20s.

To the 4th most efficient offense in the league behind only the Pats, Packers, and Cowboys.

[400HZ]

You know who the starters were, don't try to play that game with me.

Then don't try and act like it was a monumental challenge or great accomplishment taking Jake Plummer's job. Plummer practically forced it onto Cutler.

[theAPAOps5]

Well 7-9 seemed to meet Denver expectations, based on your responses here.

I haven't responded here. I also am realistic and realize Denver is rebuilding. Some people flip out when that is said but its true. Not too long ago San Diego was saying the same thing.

[400HZ]

To the 4th most efficient offense in the league behind only the Pats, Packers, and Cowboys.

Efficient at what, exactly?

[400HZ]

I haven't responded here. I also am realistic and realize Denver is rebuilding. Some people flip out when that is said but its true. Not too long ago San Diego was saying the same thing.

Respek. :)

[Dedhed]

According to the Bronco fans, Rivers cannot carry the Chargers and he is a product of the team around him. And Cutler carried the Broncos to... where was that exactly? Jay Cutler is great between the 20s.Mentioning red zone woes were you?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=3206196

[Dedhed]

Efficient at what, exactly?

Um, moving the ball on offense. The job of the QB.

[sixtimeseight]

Supposing that's true, how is it working out for Denver?

Not every QB in the league is lucky enough to be surrounded by top five draft picks. Building your team through chronic ineptitude is nothing to be proud of.

Although getting all the way to the AFC championship game with the most talented team in the NFL is apparently something to be very proud of and beat your chests about like you do on a daily basis around here. Props for not pulling your typical disappearing act this year though after the Chargers disappointed yet again.

[400HZ]

Mentioning red zone woes were you?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=3206196

Ya, the Chargers had some red zone problems in the AFC Championship Game.

[bayarealightning]

Mentioning red zone woes were you?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=3206196
Lets see, a QB playing with a recently torn ACL; RB trying to play on a sprained MCL; and a TE playing on a dislocated big toe. Hummm, injuries are a part of the game so we didn't get it done.

However, Denver was lacking in the red zone all season long. But why should we let facts get in the way of a flaming thread. Denver is HOPING that Jay Cutler can accomplish some of the things that Rivers is doing now. You say Jay is better, but the field of play will answer all questions.

I do not know why anyone would say that the Chargers would want another QB. Two years starting and two Division Championships; made it to the AFC Championship game while beating the defending Super Bowl Champions on the road along the way; 27-7 as a starter in this league including playoff games; a Pro Bowler; and he showed his team that he is tough as nails in the biggest game of most of their careers. Yeah, we are dissatisfied!:~ohyah!:

[Xenos]

Not every QB in the league is lucky enough to be surrounded by top five draft picks. Building your team through chronic ineptitude is nothing to be proud of.

Although getting all the way to the AFC championship game with the most talented team in the NFL is apparently something to be very proud of and beat your chests about like you do on a daily basis around here. Props for not pulling your typical disappearing act this year though after the Chargers disappointed yet again.
Yup. Making to the AFC Championship with three of the best players on offense injured and giving "God's team" a run for their money was a shame.

[sixtimeseight]

enver is HOPING that Jay Cutler can accomplish some of the things that Rivers is doing now.

Yea, we're all really hoping that Cutler can accomplish being in the bottom third of QBs this year.

[400HZ]

Yup. Making to the AFC Championship with three of the best players on offense injured and giving "God's team" a run for their money was a shame.

Apparently.

[sixtimeseight]

Yup. Making to the AFC Championship with three of the best players on offense injured and giving "God's team" a run for their money was a shame.

Yea wow, congratulations on that. I guess Denver fans are used to a little higher standard of excellence. After all, we don't talk incessantly about the great season of naught-five in which we made an appearance in the AFC championship game. Different strokes I suppose.

[ICON]

Rivers
needs to develop more and control the emotions some more... Shades of Ryan Leaf are not a good sign Charger fans...

Cutler.
3500 yards, 20 tds, 63% comp, isnt bad for your first full season. especially on a team plagued with injuries like the Broncos were this year.

Are Charger fans worried about the injury problems of Rivers?". Four years in the league and multiple surgeries on both knees and his shoulder. He may be tough but each injury takes a bit of potential away, less physical tools, and you have to wonder if he'll last 8 years in the league. Just seeing if there are opinions out there about that.

[theAPAOps5]

I will give San Diego fans a break when they brag about makig it to the Championship game. I mean to get there they had to win their first playoff game in 13 years. :angel:

[Dedhed]

Ya, the Chargers had some red zone problems in the AFC Championship Game.

Yes, and in fact scored only 4 more red zone TDs than the Broncos all year. And do you have an answer for the fact that Cutler led the 4th most efficient offense in the league while Rivers managed to drag the most talented offense down to 18th?

Rivers also threw for fewer yards, more ints, and had a worse QB rating, completed fewer passes for a lower average gain per completion, and had a worse completion percentage than Cutler. About the only category that Rivers was better in was wins, which perfectly highlights that Rivers is carried by the talent around him.

[gunns]

According to the Bronco fans, Rivers cannot carry the Chargers and he is a product of the team around him. And Cutler carried the Broncos to... where was that exactly? Jay Cutler is great between the 20s.

Cutler too reaps what the team does. The defense did nada. The Oline protected sporadically.

[bayarealightning]

Yes, and in fact scored only 4 more red zone TDs than the Broncos all year. And do you have an answer for the fact that Cutler led the 4th most efficient offense in the league while Rivers managed to drag the most talented offense down to 18th?

Rivers also threw for fewer yards, more ints, and had a worse QB rating, completed fewer passes for a lower average gain per completion, and had a worse completion percentage than Cutler. About the only category that Rivers was better in was wins, which perfectly highlights that Rivers is carried by the talent around him.
This while having a new HC and OC. You can look at the Giants defense under a new DC this year. they gave up huge points early in the year, but the defense came together towards the end of the year as the players and coaches became accustomed to each other. Kind of like the Chargers Offense took a while to come together. If you want to go anywhere in the AFC West right now, you have to go through San Diego and their weak-armed QB. Good luck with that!

[ICON]

This is a question that really needs to be looked at.

First mini-dynasty: The AFL Chargers were a dominant force in the AFL. But that being said, they only won one championship. But in 1965 they posted a very good record, 9-2-3 but the following year they slumped to a dismal 7-6-1, the first year of the Super Bowls. One of the best players of this era, Lance Alworth, got a SB ring, but with the Cowboys.

Second coming: 1979, Under Coryell they streaked through the season to a 12-4 record. They had offense and a defense, a very good defense. Unfortunately an Oilers team intercepted Fouts 4 times and the Bolts were out before the championship game. The 80’s, where to begin. The Raiders championship game in which Plunkett continued his magical season, 80-81. The Epic in followed by the Freezer game, this in 1982. Ironically the Chargers would beat both the 49ers and the Bengals in back to back games in the 1982 season. Then beating the Steelers, and then losing to the Dolphins in the modified playoffs. 3 first round draft choices in 1983 should have put them in a favorable situation for the remainder of the 80’s. But for whatever reason, these draft choices were only marginally successful. 1987 the strike year, they needed to win one game, they lost the last 6. Following that year, Fouts retired and then began the Malone, McMahon, Tolliver years..

The early 90’s, the SB year: 1992 Bobby Ross starts out 0-4 then the Chargers go ballistic winning 11 out of the last 12. They beat the Chiefs then get blown out by the Dolphins. The start of something big, or just another glimmer of greatness to fade into oblivion. Then 94, after a letdown in 93 the Chargers started 6-0, then go on and win the AFC Championship over and Neil O’Donnell. Unfortunately they ran into a buzz saw in the 49ers, that would have beaten anyone the AFC had at that time. In fact the 49ers had walloped them earlier in the season. Ironically the blame should squarely rest on the wunderkind that got the Chargers to the playoffs, Bobby Beathard. He squandered more picks than any other GM in history. Always trading rounders for unknowns out of colleges that aren’t even on the map. But the 1998 draft and trade for Ryan Leaf was the feather in the cap of ineptitude.

The new millennium, the present: Bethard out, John Butler in. The first trade, Vick or Tomlinson. engineers a master trade and gets a HOF RB and a QB in what was the best bluff in draft history. 2001-2002 the Chargers show improvement on a steady climb. However would not live to see this team to fruition. Then a setback in 2003, but then 2004 it all comes together. They get a QB in the draft. BUT the only reason they go this route was Drew Brees having a monstrosity of a year in 2003. But the draft in totality is a monster, Phillip Rivers, Kaeding and Merriman all come from the Manning trade. 2005 was a 9-7 mediocre year that led to Brees being let go, setting the stage for Phillip Rivers. 2006 the Chargers posted a 12-4 record, only to get ousted by the Patriots in what amounted to Marty ball costing the Chargers the game, as it did in 2004. The assist however goes to Marlon McCree and what might be the biggest bonehead Charger play since Bobby Duckworth fumbled a touchdown with no opponent player within 10 yards of him in the 80’s. Marty is let go, Norv Turner in, and the Chargers fall back a little. Then the team catches some momentum during the season. They win two playoff games in fashion before succumbing to injuries to key players.

Again, snake bit, unlucky, call it what you want, the Chargers over the course of their history always fines a way, a reason, an excuse not to win the big ones. The only way the new Chargers will shake this monkey off the back of the franchise is to win a Super Bowl. Dynasties don’t last forever, how long does this current crop of players have? 2-4-5-7 years? It would be tragic after all this work that the Chargers find themselves in another cycle of misery. ^5


Say hello to the Eli monkey...
http://www.advertisementave.biz/images/256x192/dodge-monkey.jpg

[bayarealightning]

Cutler too reaps what the team does. The defense did nada. The Oline protected sporadically.
I can agree with this statement. However, it is a bad thing when Rivers reaps the benefit of his team, and a good thing when Cutler does also. I'm just sayin'

[BreesLightning]

This is a question that really needs to be looked at.

First mini-dynasty: The AFL Chargers were a dominant force in the AFL. But that being said, they only won one championship. But in 1965 they posted a very good record, 9-2-3 but the following year they slumped to a dismal 7-6-1, the first year of the Super Bowls. One of the best players of this era, Lance Alworth, got a SB ring, but with the Cowboys.

Second coming: 1979, Under Coryell they streaked through the season to a 12-4 record. They had offense and a defense, a very good defense. Unfortunately an Oilers team intercepted Fouts 4 times and the Bolts were out before the championship game. The 80’s, where to begin. The Raiders championship game in which Plunkett continued his magical season, 80-81. The Epic in followed by the Freezer game, this in 1982. Ironically the Chargers would beat both the 49ers and the Bengals in back to back games in the 1982 season. Then beating the Steelers, and then losing to the Dolphins in the modified playoffs. 3 first round draft choices in 1983 should have put them in a favorable situation for the remainder of the 80’s. But for whatever reason, these draft choices were only marginally successful. 1987 the strike year, they needed to win one game, they lost the last 6. Following that year, Fouts retired and then began the Malone, McMahon, Tolliver years..

The early 90’s, the SB year: 1992 Bobby Ross starts out 0-4 then the Chargers go ballistic winning 11 out of the last 12. They beat the Chiefs then get blown out by the Dolphins. The start of something big, or just another glimmer of greatness to fade into oblivion. Then 94, after a letdown in 93 the Chargers started 6-0, then go on and win the AFC Championship over and Neil O’Donnell. Unfortunately they ran into a buzz saw in the 49ers, that would have beaten anyone the AFC had at that time. In fact the 49ers had walloped them earlier in the season. Ironically the blame should squarely rest on the wunderkind that got the Chargers to the playoffs, Bobby Beathard. He squandered more picks than any other GM in history. Always trading rounders for unknowns out of colleges that aren’t even on the map. But the 1998 draft and trade for Ryan Leaf was the feather in the cap of ineptitude.

The new millennium, the present: Bethard out, John Butler in. The first trade, Vick or Tomlinson. engineers a master trade and gets a HOF RB and a QB in what was the best bluff in draft history. 2001-2002 the Chargers show improvement on a steady climb. However would not live to see this team to fruition. Then a setback in 2003, but then 2004 it all comes together. They get a QB in the draft. BUT the only reason they go this route was Drew Brees having a monstrosity of a year in 2003. But the draft in totality is a monster, Phillip Rivers, Kaeding and Merriman all come from the Manning trade. 2005 was a 9-7 mediocre year that led to Brees being let go, setting the stage for Phillip Rivers. 2006 the Chargers posted a 12-4 record, only to get ousted by the Patriots in what amounted to Marty ball costing the Chargers the game, as it did in 2004. The assist however goes to Marlon McCree and what might be the biggest bonehead Charger play since Bobby Duckworth fumbled a touchdown with no opponent player within 10 yards of him in the 80’s. Marty is let go, Norv Turner in, and the Chargers fall back a little. Then the team catches some momentum during the season. They win two playoff games in fashion before succumbing to injuries to key players.

Again, snake bit, unlucky, call it what you want, the Chargers over the course of their history always fines a way, a reason, an excuse not to win the big ones. The only way the new Chargers will shake this monkey off the back of the franchise is to win a Super Bowl. Dynasties don’t last forever, how long does this current crop of players have? 2-4-5-7 years? It would be tragic after all this work that the Chargers find themselves in another cycle of misery. ^5

Good post. Props on your knowledge.

[Dedhed]

This while having a new HC and OC. You can look at the Giants defense under a new DC this year. they gave up huge points early in the year, but the defense came together towards the end of the year as the players and coaches became accustomed to each other. Kind of like the Chargers Offense took a while to come together. If you want to go anywhere in the AFC West right now, you have to go through San Diego and their weak-armed QB. Good luck with that!
Ah yes, spin away. Cutler had a new OC too. Oh yeah, and a new LG, C, RG, RT, RB, RB, RB, and lost the #1 WR from last year. Still want to compare needing to make adjustments? Spin away. The Broncos offense was decimated by injury this year, which makes Cutler's #s even more impressive; and they were more impressive than Rivers's already.

[DomCasual]

Let the man have his opinion.

I'd take Rivers as well. I agree with 400 when he asks what has Cutler accomplished?

I like his cannon for an arm but that's about it. I haven't been impressed with his decision making so far. He's young so he'll improve but right now Rivers is ahead of the game.

So the bottom line is that Bronco fans would take Cutler and Charger fans would take Rivers? What a surprise. :)

But, answer this (and be honest)! Realistically, if you were to poll personnel guys from the other thirty teams in the NFL, how many do you think would choose Rivers, and how many do you think would choose Cutler?

Obviously, we're speculating. But I bet it's something like 25-5, Cutler. And I'm probably being overly-generous with the 5.

[400HZ]

Ah yes, spin away. Cutler had a new OC too. Oh yeah, and a new LG, C, RG, RT, RB, RB, RB, and lost the #1 WR from last year. Still want to compare needing to make adjustments? Spin away. The Broncos offense was decimated by injury this year, which makes Cutler's #s even more impressive; and they were more impressive than Rivers's already.

Heimerdinger?

[Xenos]

Rivers
needs to develop more and control the emotions some more... Shades of Ryan Leaf are not a good sign Charger fans...

Cutler.
3500 yards, 20 tds, 63% comp, isnt bad for your first full season. especially on a team plagued with injuries like the Broncos were this year.

Are Charger fans worried about the injury problems of Rivers?". Four years in the league and multiple surgeries on both knees and his shoulder. He may be tough but each injury takes a bit of potential away, less physical tools, and you have to wonder if he'll last 8 years in the league. Just seeing if there are opinions out there about that.
It's funny people mention that because based on what I saw on Christmas Eve, Cutler has quite the temper as well. He's also quite the talker himself, which is the main reason why the whole incident happened on Christmas Eve between him, Phillips, Wilhelm, and Rivers.

As for Rivers' emotion, he's probably one of the few QBs that can get away with it since strangely enough he seems to do better hyped up. The Ravens game comes to mind after he told the crowd to shut up.

[Xenos]

Yes, and in fact scored only 4 more red zone TDs than the Broncos all year. And do you have an answer for the fact that Cutler led the 4th most efficient offense in the league while Rivers managed to drag the most talented offense down to 18th?

Rivers also threw for fewer yards, more ints, and had a worse QB rating, completed fewer passes for a lower average gain per completion, and had a worse completion percentage than Cutler. About the only category that Rivers was better in was wins, which perfectly highlights that Rivers is carried by the talent around him.
New HC. Norv is a QB guru. But most forget that guys like Aikman and Johnson became better during their second year under him due to the enormous workload that he requires from them their first year under him. Fortunately, while Rivers struggled for most of this season, it paid off near the end of the season and in the playoffs when teams took LT and Gates away, and made Rivers beat them. It's just too bad that he had to injure his right knee.

[bayarealightning]

Ah yes, spin away. Cutler had a new OC too. Oh yeah, and a new LG, C, RG, RT, RB, RB, RB, and lost the #1 WR from last year. Still want to compare needing to make adjustments? Spin away. The Broncos offense was decimated by injury this year, which makes Cutler's #s even more impressive; and they were more impressive than Rivers's already.
No spin. We still had a shot. We should have another shot next year. Nothing is written in stone, but I like our chances. We have 5 starters 30 or older (two may not start next year) and most everyone is coming back. What is there to spin? You have to come through San Diego if you want to win the west.

[400HZ]

But, answer this (and be honest)! Realistically, if you were to poll personnel guys from the other thirty teams in the NFL, how many do you think would choose Rivers, and how many do you think would choose Cutler?

Obviously, we're speculating. But I bet it's something like 25-5, Cutler. And I'm probably being overly-generous with the 5.

I think you guys are warped when it comes to opinion of Cutler outside Denver. He was the flavor of the week on ESPN for a brief period this year before fading, but other than that glimmer he's pretty much taken for what he is... a young QB with potential and nothing to show for it (like a lot of young quarterbacks.) You say 25-5 Cutler, I say 25-5 Rivers. We're both probably wrong. NFL players and coaches obviously thought highly of Rivers last year when they accounted for 2/3 of the votes that sent him to the pro bowl. This year they thought less of him, which was understandable given his well documented struggles early in the year. The real truth of the matter is that neither Rivers or Cutler have reached their ceilings yet, and we can't reach a definitive answer as to who is better until they do.

[broncofan2438]

Wow, this thread sure is a hit, even though it means nothing

[boltaneer]

We all pretend to be experts here but the fact is that none of us are even close.

AJ Smith is obviously shown himself to be a pretty damn good evaluator of talent and he likes what he sees in Rivers so I'm certainly not going to question him. Shanahan likes what he has in Cutler as well and neither one would trade one for the other.

We can all debate this issue all we want but none of us can predict the future. It's about ten years too early to start proclaiming one QB better than the other so I say just let it play out.

[broncofan2438]

We all pretend to be experts here but the fact is that none of us are even close.

AJ Smith is obviously shown himself to be a pretty damn good evaluator of talent and he likes what he sees in Rivers so I'm certainly not going to question him. Shanahan likes what he has in Cutler as well and neither one would trade one for the other.

We can all debate this issue all we want but none of us can predict the future. It's about ten years too early to start proclaiming one QB better than the other so I say just let it play out.

Ok, so................................................ ...and...........................

[boltaneer]

Ok, so................................................ ...and...........................

My point is that Bronco fans can slam Rivers all they want but their opinion really means nothing. You don't get to watch game tape. You don't know the playcalls or the playbook. You don't know if Vincent Jackson ran the wrong route or the Rivers threw it to the wrong spot. Etc, etc.

And the same thing goes for Charger fans bashing Culter.

There is no credibility there because you simply do not have the access to the information needed to make such statements.

It's a fun little debate and granted this is pretty much all we can do as fans, especially in the off season but some people take this stuff way too seriously IMO.

[JJJ]

This is a question that really needs to be looked at.

First mini-dynasty: The AFL Chargers were a dominant force in the AFL. But that being said, they only won one championship. But in 1965 they posted a very good record, 9-2-3 but the following year they slumped to a dismal 7-6-1, the first year of the Super Bowls. One of the best players of this era, Lance Alworth, got a SB ring, but with the Cowboys.

Second coming: 1979, Under Coryell they streaked through the season to a 12-4 record. They had offense and a defense, a very good defense. Unfortunately an Oilers team intercepted Fouts 4 times and the Bolts were out before the championship game. The 80’s, where to begin. The Raiders championship game in which Plunkett continued his magical season, 80-81. The Epic in followed by the Freezer game, this in 1982. Ironically the Chargers would beat both the 49ers and the Bengals in back to back games in the 1982 season. Then beating the Steelers, and then losing to the Dolphins in the modified playoffs. 3 first round draft choices in 1983 should have put them in a favorable situation for the remainder of the 80’s. But for whatever reason, these draft choices were only marginally successful. 1987 the strike year, they needed to win one game, they lost the last 6. Following that year, Fouts retired and then began the Malone, McMahon, Tolliver years..

The early 90’s, the SB year: 1992 Bobby Ross starts out 0-4 then the Chargers go ballistic winning 11 out of the last 12. They beat the Chiefs then get blown out by the Dolphins. The start of something big, or just another glimmer of greatness to fade into oblivion. Then 94, after a letdown in 93 the Chargers started 6-0, then go on and win the AFC Championship over and Neil O’Donnell. Unfortunately they ran into a buzz saw in the 49ers, that would have beaten anyone the AFC had at that time. In fact the 49ers had walloped them earlier in the season. Ironically the blame should squarely rest on the wunderkind that got the Chargers to the playoffs, Bobby Beathard. He squandered more picks than any other GM in history. Always trading rounders for unknowns out of colleges that aren’t even on the map. But the 1998 draft and trade for Ryan Leaf was the feather in the cap of ineptitude.

The new millennium, the present: Bethard out, John Butler in. The first trade, Vick or Tomlinson. engineers a master trade and gets a HOF RB and a QB in what was the best bluff in draft history. 2001-2002 the Chargers show improvement on a steady climb. However would not live to see this team to fruition. Then a setback in 2003, but then 2004 it all comes together. They get a QB in the draft. BUT the only reason they go this route was Drew Brees having a monstrosity of a year in 2003. But the draft in totality is a monster, Phillip Rivers, Kaeding and Merriman all come from the Manning trade. 2005 was a 9-7 mediocre year that led to Brees being let go, setting the stage for Phillip Rivers. 2006 the Chargers posted a 12-4 record, only to get ousted by the Patriots in what amounted to Marty ball costing the Chargers the game, as it did in 2004. The assist however goes to Marlon McCree and what might be the biggest bonehead Charger play since Bobby Duckworth fumbled a touchdown with no opponent player within 10 yards of him in the 80’s. Marty is let go, Norv Turner in, and the Chargers fall back a little. Then the team catches some momentum during the season. They win two playoff games in fashion before succumbing to injuries to key players.

Again, snake bit, unlucky, call it what you want, the Chargers over the course of their history always fines a way, a reason, an excuse not to win the big ones. The only way the new Chargers will shake this monkey off the back of the franchise is to win a Super Bowl. Dynasties don’t last forever, how long does this current crop of players have? 2-4-5-7 years? It would be tragic after all this work that the Chargers find themselves in another cycle of misery. ^5


Say hello to the Eli monkey...
http://www.advertisementave.biz/images/256x192/dodge-monkey.jpg

The Bolts do have a history of having some of the best teams ever to not win a championship. I think calling the Chargers snakebit is accurate.

That is why when it finally comes it will be sweet. This crop of players has enough critical mass of talent to get it done and has about a 3-4 year window to do it.

In general I don't think most Charger fans are greedy. We just want one bloody championship to make up for the 40 years of pain.

Between the Bolts and the Pads we are 0 for 80 over the last 40 years. This is why it is total BS to call SD fans bandwagoners. Few cities have had to endure what we have put up with and still support their teams while trying to ignore the distractions of being able to hang on the beach and tee it up all year round.

We have great tailgates and great tail in SD. What else do you need? That has been enough for 40 years and if Rivers and this bunch can't get it done it will probably be enough for the next 40. (Assuming we get a new stadium of course)

[kappys]

I think you guys are warped when it comes to opinion of Cutler outside Denver. He was the flavor of the week on ESPN for a brief period this year before fading, but other than that glimmer he's pretty much taken for what he is... a young QB with potential and nothing to show for it (like a lot of young quarterbacks.) You say 25-5 Cutler, I say 25-5 Rivers. We're both probably wrong. NFL players and coaches obviously thought highly of Rivers last year when they accounted for 2/3 of the votes that sent him to the pro bowl. This year they thought less of him, which was understandable given his well documented struggles early in the year. The real truth of the matter is that neither Rivers or Cutler have reached their ceilings yet, and we can't reach a definitive answer as to who is better until they do.

Not really. I live in Cowboys country and among those who know about football here noone would choose Rivers over Cutler. But hell, they all love Tony Romo so who are we to judge?

[DomCasual]

I think you guys are warped when it comes to opinion of Cutler outside Denver. He was the flavor of the week on ESPN for a brief period this year before fading, but other than that glimmer he's pretty much taken for what he is... a young QB with potential and nothing to show for it (like a lot of young quarterbacks.) You say 25-5 Cutler, I say 25-5 Rivers. We're both probably wrong. NFL players and coaches obviously thought highly of Rivers last year when they accounted for 2/3 of the votes that sent him to the pro bowl. This year they thought less of him, which was understandable given his well documented struggles early in the year. The real truth of the matter is that neither Rivers or Cutler have reached their ceilings yet, and we can't reach a definitive answer as to who is better until they do.

Well, this is from outside of Denver. It quotes multiple players and personnel in both conferences. And it was written on December 13 - week 14, I think? Did he stop being the "flavor of the month" after this?

I think more likely is that Chargers fans are warped in their bias for Rivers and against Cutler. Or, are you going to argue that the quotes I bolded aren't bullish on Cutler?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3142771

In young QB market, Cutler hot, Eli Manning not
By Mike Sando
ESPN.com

Cincinnati's Carson Palmer dazzles with his arm strength and his ability to sniff out opposing defenses.

Houston's Matt Schaub has a better feel for the pocket than most, while Jacksonville's David Garrard brings poise and a high football IQ to the quarterback position.

For all their differences, most of the NFL's promising young quarterbacks share a striking similarity in the eyes of scouts and coaches: They can't touch Denver's Jay Cutler for sheer potential.

Asked to evaluate 11 young starters, experts singled out Cutler as the quarterback most likely to reach the elite status currently shared by Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.

"The kid in Denver, to me he is the future of this league," an AFC pro scout said.

"I would jump on that boat," an NFC personnel director said. "He isn't quite there, but you see those flashes of a guy who, once he has the whole playbook in his mind and he's made all the mistakes he needs to make in learning it, man, he's going to be a special player."

ESPN.com granted anonymity to two pro scouts, one personnel director, a defensive coordinator and a defensive backs coach in exchange for unvarnished evaluations.

The experts analyzed starting quarterbacks younger than 30 and with fewer than four seasons of starting experience. San Francisco's Alex Smith and Arizona's Matt Leinart fell from consideration because neither has established himself as a long-term starter.

That left 11 young quarterbacks standing: Roethlisberger, Romo, Palmer, Schaub, Garrard, Cleveland's Derek Anderson, San Diego's Philip Rivers, Tennessee's Vince Young, Washington's Jason Campbell, the New York Giants' Eli Manning and, of course, Cutler.

STRONG BUY

Jay Cutler, Broncos

The second-year pro has completed better than 60 percent of his passes through his first 18 regular-season starts, but the numbers don't begin to explain what separates Cutler from the others.

"I love him," the AFC scout said. "He's athletic, poised, smart, accurate -- and there was just something about that kid coming out, the way he was wired."

The Broncos have had problems surrounding Cutler with a consistent supporting cast. Losing veteran center Tom Nalen was a significant setback. Top receiver Javon Walker has hardly played. Top running back Travis Henry has 34 carries over the last seven games.

Cutler's numbers have suffered as a result, but he's still averaging 7.9 yards per attempt, putting him up there with Brett Favre (7.96) and Peyton Manning (7.9).

"He has an unbelievable career ahead of him," the NFC personnel director said. "He is Romo [in terms of confidence] with the physical tools to match. He's fun to watch because he's kind of like the kid who plays quarterback down at the playground. 'Let's just go play.'"

Cutler, 24, has less experience than the other quarterbacks on our list, leaving more for the imagination. But his poise and physical ability are obvious already.

"He has a cannon of an arm, obviously, and when he's in the pocket, he has the arm strength to make all the throws," an NFC pro scout said. "Throw in the fact that he can move around and buy additional time, and he's got a pretty impressive arsenal in terms of ability and arm strength and feet."

Romo, Roethlisberger, and Palmer
Dallas QB Tony Romo, left, may not have the physical ability of Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger, center, and Cincinnati's Carson Palmer, but his confidence makes him especially dangerous.
BUY

Tony Romo, Cowboys

Few quarterbacks produce more with less obvious physical ability. That's not intended as a criticism, either. Romo has enough physical ability, no question, but his confidence makes him especially dangerous.

"If you put him in the room with great quarterbacks and broke down their qualities, you wouldn't say this guy is No. 1 in any of those things," the NFC personnel director said. "But he might be No. 1 in confidence. I think he gets a lot of stuff done with attitude and mind-set and preparation and confidence."

The approach is working. Romo, 27, has 35 touchdowns and a 107.7 rating this season for the best team in the NFC. He's averaging 8.6 yards per attempt and has been sacked just 19 times in 13 starts this season. The Cowboys are getting elite production from a player with only 23 regular-season starts.

"He throws a nice ball, one of those catchable balls," the secondary coach said. "He's not going to have the biggest arm, but he's accurate."

Most quarterbacks worry about backside pressure when moving outside the pocket. Romo seems unperturbed. And he's more dangerous than other quarterbacks once he breaks outside containment.

"He always keeps his head up when he's outside the pocket," the NFC pro scout said. "Most guys look five or 10 yards down the field, but it's like Romo looks 40 yards downfield and works his way back. He'll throw to the other side of the field and a guy will be uncovered because everyone [bailed]."

Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers

Roethlisberger stands 6-foot-5 and weighs more than 240 pounds, making him the biggest player on our list. He's also putting up big numbers. There's a lot to like, but also a few concerns.

"If you can keep him in the pocket, he struggles with coverage," the defensive coordinator said. "I'm not convinced that he might not always struggle that way. I would say that is probably, to me, his only negative."

Roethlisberger, 25, appears destined to rank among the league leaders in yards per pass attempt (7.8 yards), arguably the most telling statistic for quarterbacks. His completion percentage is above 66.4 percent this season, also a high figure.

"We played him early in his career and I wasn't impressed at all," the secondary coach said. "I just thought he had a good supporting cast. I like him better after watching him this season. He's a tough quarterback to defend because he makes plays out of the pocket. He's getting better."

Uncommon size and strength allow Roethlisberger to stand tall in the pocket, but sometimes he holds the ball too long, leading to unnecessary sacks. Opponents have sacked Roethlisberger more than 80 times in the last two seasons. Finding the right balance could allow Roethlisberger to take another step toward elite status.

"There are a lot of things that make him good," the defensive coordinator said. "He's big, so he can avoid sacks or get out of a sack situation. When the receivers alter their routes, he can get out of the pressure. He has a good arm. Once he finds the guy open, he can drill the ball.

"The only real nick in his armor is if you can keep him in the pocket. Once he escapes the pocket, he has the comfort of being able to run. Usually there will be one guy after him instead of four or five."

Carson Palmer, Bengals

Palmer, 27, has bounced back from a career-threatening knee injury, but whatever mobility he possessed is mostly a memory. That hasn't stopped him from threatening 4,000 yards passing most seasons.

"From a mental standpoint and managing the game, I would put him right there with Tom Brady," the defensive coordinator said. "He is smart and he can do what Brady does in terms of calling the offense on the line of scrimmage and changing things."

Palmer's arm strength and accuracy impact the way defenses plan for the Bengals.

"I'm scared to death of him," the secondary coach said. "That guy, wow. He can make any throw. He is putting balls in there that should be picked."

Some of those balls have been picked. Palmer already has more interceptions this season (17) than he threw last season or in 2005. But he is taking fewer sacks and completing a higher percentage.

"The only thing with Carson is, which he can't do anything about, is his mobility," the coordinator said. "He can escape a little bit of the rush, but he is of no danger to you."

David Garrard, Jaguars

Garrard, 29, quietly developed as a spot starter when Byron Leftwich was struggling to stay healthy. The team remained committed to Leftwich until this season, but that wasn't a bad thing for Garrard. The situation allowed him to work on his game without the pressure of being The Man.

"The thing with him has always been his poise and his clear understanding of the position," the NFL personnel director said. "I think he is instinctive as a quarterback in his understanding of the big picture more than just trying to be a strong-armed guy."

Garrard has flourished in the months since the organization released Leftwich. The last-minute move seemed risky because the regular season was only days away, but Garrard was clearly ready.

"He's athletic, he has a big arm and he's in a pretty good comfort zone there," the AFC scout said.

Jack Del Rio is a defensive head coach who prefers a run-first approach on offense. The Jaguars also lack receivers, making it unlikely Garrard will put up MVP-caliber numbers anytime soon. But in throwing 10 touchdown passes before his first interception this season, Garrard showed he won't force things.

"As far as being able to make the throws, he can do all that," the NFC personnel director said. "And mentally, he is a quarterback; most people consider him to be a leader of men. He is a good runner, strong in the hips, but he thinks more like a conventional quarterback."

Matt Schaub, Texans

Schaub, 26, seems to have a natural feel for the position. Other quarterbacks on the list have stronger arms and better scrambling ability, but one of our experts ranked Schaub near the top.

"Schaub and Cutler are the two young guys that excite me, guys that if they fail, then I don't know what the hell I'm doing," the NFC pro scout said.

Schaub stands 6-foot-5 and weighs 237 pounds, but he rarely takes sacks. A helmet-to-helmet hit from Tennessee's Albert Haynesworth knocked Schaub from an Oct. 21 game, altering the quarterback's season. The Titans knocked out Schaub again more recently, this time with a dislocated shoulder.

Schaub sat on the bench in Atlanta for three seasons even though "he ran the West Coast offense better than Michael Vick ever could," the secondary coach said.

"I really liked him," the coach said. "And then seeing him again this season, he was really good."

Pocket awareness separates Schaub from most quarterbacks. His predecessor, David Carr, took 41 sacks in 16 starts for Houston last season. Schaub took 16 in his first 11 starts this season.

"Get a running game with him and he's going to be tough," the NFC scout said.

HOLD

Philip Rivers, Chargers

San Diego took a step back offensively this season, but Rivers has shown signs of improvement. He has forced too many balls into coverage, leading to more interceptions (15) and a pedestrian passer rating so far (78.9).

Rivers, 25, spent two seasons behind veteran Drew Brees before helping San Diego to a 14-2 record in 2006, his first season as a starter.

"He's an accurate guy, but I wasn't impressed with his arm strength," the secondary coach said. "I was more impressed with his leadership and the other things he does, more than being a pure quarterback.

"You watch him and he has a good feel for the game, he knows where to go with the ball and who needs to get the ball. Some guys don't get that. You see guys all the time, it's a critical situation and they throw to some guy who never had a catch. Part of being a good player and a good quarterback is getting the ball to right guys."

The Chargers acquired wide receiver Chris Chambers from Miami, but they could use more at the position.

"It seems like his lack of receivers has really caught up with him," the NFC scout said. "Teams are taking [Antonio] Gates away and they had [center] Nick Hardwick hurt for a while, so they couldn't run the ball as well."

Vince Young Titans

Young, 24, overcame average numbers as a rookie (51.5 completion percentage) by making clutch plays to win games, often with his legs. Defenses have adjusted this season, and Young has struggled. He has seven touchdowns and 16 interceptions in 12 starts despite completing a higher percentage of his passes.

"I can't get over the throwing motion," the AFC scout said. "At some point, you have to make throws from the pocket in the passing game. He'll have some good games, but week in and week out, every week is chaos to him.

"If your biggest threat is pulling it down and running, maybe there's a reason."

Young tends to deliver the ball with his elbow low, reducing his options.

"It's hard to throw the ball with any sort of loft or touch," the AFC scout said. "It's one of Joey Harrington's issues, that and not waiting to get the ball out. It's never changed with David Carr, either. They had Carr throwing over chairs and ladders and it's not going to change. It is what it is.

"A guy like Vince, I love to watch him play. He's fun and he runs around and he creates, but there were a million guys who failed before Bernie Kosar had success with that motion."

Young also suffers from a short supply of talented receivers.

Jason Campbell, Redskins

Coaches generally change a quarterback's throwing motion only as a last resort. Washington appears to have succeeded in helping Campbell, 25, overhaul his mechanics. Campbell has improved his completion percentage significantly, but he's still in the early stages of development.

"He is a big, talented kid," the secondary coach said. "He can pretty much throw any ball you need. They are probably taking it easy with him with the idea of, 'Hey, listen, don't lose the game for us.' But he might be able to win for them with time."

The AFC scout studied Campbell at length, starting with the seven starts Campbell made last season.

"They really did a nice job of changing his throwing motion," the scout said. "They really shortened his stroke, which helped him. I was really surprised at how much better he got during the summer."

Campbell might be more of a born leader than some quarterbacks.

"He takes charge of things," the secondary coach said. "You don't see other guys in the huddle saying, 'Let's do this, let's do that.' They have some veteran guys. He carries himself that way. I'd be willing to bet he has good leadership ability."

Derek Anderson, Browns

Even the Browns have been surprised with Anderson's sudden emergence as a productive, winning quarterback. As a result, scouts and coaches haven't studied him as much.

Anderson, 24, looks the part at 6-foot-6 and 230 pounds.

"At this point, I don't think there is anything real negative about him. He just needs to keep his entire game going," the defensive coordinator said. "I understand he's a real smart kid. I think if he applies himself, he's going to get better and better.

"They are going to be an offensive team to reckon with even more than they are now once they get real confidence in what they are doing."

The Browns have done an outstanding job protecting Anderson, the coordinator said.

"We were kind of lukewarm on him when we played him and we might have to revisit that," the AFC scout said.

UNDERPERFORM

Eli Manning, Giants

Our panel of experts wasn't impressed with Manning even before the quarterback's four-interception implosion against Minnesota in Week 12.

"I think he's got good skills," said the secondary coach, speaking before the Minnesota game, "but all the other stuff, the intangible stuff, I don't think he has it. He gets scared when you get after him in the pocket. All the things you hate a quarterback to have, he has. And he's not accurate."

Even Giants' general manager Jerry Reese admitted that Manning, 26, had become "skittish" in recent weeks.

"He missed throws in our game," one of the pro scouts said. "There were throws you need to make if you are a front-line guy. He left yards on the field against us."

[400HZ]

It seemed like Cutler really started getting media attention after the Broncos trounced the Chiefs in Arrowhead, which I believe was week 13 or 14. It sort of tailed off after that Thursday game against Houston and then pretty much ended after that second nationally televised game against SD. That was my perception of Cutler's flavor of the week stretch.

By the way, I don't want to qualify any of this as an endorsement of a QB's value. Even though I watch a ton of ESPN, I still think they are fickle and biased. I'm talking strictly about national perception, not talent.

[OABB]

I'm sick of bitching about rivers....I just realized that my hatred of him came from a fear of him. The more I think about him, he is nothing more than an average qb who will never achieve anything in this league. As a bronco fan, he is the best qb for SD bar none. Anyone else in there and they would be sb champs by now.

I know he is easy to dislike because he is a braggart and not very good, but think about it, he is the plug in the leaky damn for the chargers, and as long as he is there they will always be what we know them to be;

perrenial losers.

I like the snake-bit theme though, real cute. Alot of losers complain about that. I have the last few years for denver...

snakebit is a pretty word for sucks.


good luck next year chargers, if your lucky rivers wont come back from his namath knees and volek will take you far. he did win the only real game for you guys anyway.

and no, I don;t count a 6th seed at home.

[Inkana7]

I think you guys are warped when it comes to opinion of Cutler outside Denver. He was the flavor of the week on ESPN for a brief period this year before fading, but other than that glimmer he's pretty much taken for what he is... a young QB with potential and nothing to show for it (like a lot of young quarterbacks.) You say 25-5 Cutler, I say 25-5 Rivers. We're both probably wrong. NFL players and coaches obviously thought highly of Rivers last year when they accounted for 2/3 of the votes that sent him to the pro bowl. This year they thought less of him, which was understandable given his well documented struggles early in the year. The real truth of the matter is that neither Rivers or Cutler have reached their ceilings yet, and we can't reach a definitive answer as to who is better until they do.

Just a little note about the 2006 Pro Bowl: Tom Brady didn't make it.

So make your own opinion about how Rivers got in.

[boltaneer]

Just a little note about the 2006 Pro Bowl: Tom Brady didn't make it.

So make your own opinion about how Rivers got in.

Rivers deserved it last year. That's how he got in.

[RaiderH8r]

Venus di Milo has a better arm then Rivers....

Bob Dole has a better arm than Rivers....

[sixtimeseight]

Rich Gannon also went to a Pro Bowl one year. He probably even deserved it. Do you want Rich Gannon as your franchise quarterback?

[Merlin]

Rivers deserved it last year. That's how he got in.
True, but he did stink the last 3rd of the season (excluding Denver games for obvious reasons), and has looke only marginally better than avg sense against good teams.

As to his performance in the playoffs. Gates might have been injured, but he was still far better than the majority of TEs in the NFL...he looked pretty decent against NE and a number of times was able to create separation despite his injury; too bad his QB was not up to the task. Now your second injury was your RB, and that in most occasions would have been a big one (he is pretty damn good), if your backup would not have started for more than 2/3 of the teams in the league (including Denver). Yet even then Rivers looked worse against Tennessee than Cutler did with far less talent.

You guys have no stats or evidence of great PERSONAL achievement (a la Eli and Tyree) to explain your jock fest with Rivers, but it does not stop you from considering him as if he were a top 5 in the league, when in fact his personal stats just place slightly above avg. Put Rivers in Denver, and we win 3 if we are lucky. Put Cutler in SD and you would have had a better outcome (at least Cutler has a number of plays in the crunch in his small history in which you could say "not bad").


That being said, Cutler should also be rated in the above avg category only. He has yet to truly carry a team in a manner that would suggest greatness. However, judging by skills and talent, it is far more plausible that outcome could come from Cutler than Rivers. You have already seen the best of him, he will never get any better (no matter how many more yrs experience you give him, so yes Eli and Roth > than Rivers (although I would not categorize either of those as great, at least I have yet to see evidence of it)).

[400HZ]

True, but he did stink the last 3rd of the season (excluding Denver games for obvious reasons), and has looke only marginally better than avg sense against good teams.

There's truth to this. A big factor was McCardell and Parker (his #1 and #2 receivers) getting hurt during the last 1/3. Another factor was teams adjusting to the passing scheme, which was actually pretty basic and dumbed down for much of the year. The main factor was just Rivers not playing well.

As to his performance in the playoffs. Gates might have been injured, but he was still far better than the majority of TEs in the NFL...he looked pretty decent against NE and a number of times was able to create separation despite his injury; too bad his QB was not up to the task.

Gates was on the sideline the entire second half against Tennessee. The only time he made plays against Indy was when he was disregarded. New England was covering him one on one with linebackers, and he only rarely created separation. Gates didn't have low numbers because of Rivers. Not even close.

Yet even then Rivers looked worse against Tennessee than Cutler did with far less talent.

Denver played Tennessee when the Titans were in the middle of like a four game slide. They're best defensive player, one of the best three or four defenders in the league this year, was on the sideline. Other crappy teams, like Carolina and Cincinatti, were beating them, too.

You guys have no stats or evidence of great PERSONAL achievement (a la Eli and Tyree) to explain your jock fest with Rivers, but it does not stop you from considering him as if he were a top 5 in the league, when in fact his personal stats just place slightly above avg.

I don't think he's top 5 in the league. Neither is Cutler.

Put Rivers in Denver, and we win 3 if we are lucky. Put Cutler in SD and you would have had a better outcome (at least Cutler has a number of plays in the crunch in his small history in which you could say "not bad").

Rivers has delivered in the clutch plenty of times. More than most young quarterbacks. That's probably the biggest reason that I would take him over Cutler.

That being said, Cutler should also be rated in the above avg category only. He has yet to truly carry a team in a manner that would suggest greatness. However, judging by skills and talent, it is far more plausible that outcome could come from Cutler than Rivers.

You're saying that it's more plausible simply because Cutler can throw the ball farther and run faster. I'll ask again, what has he accomplished? You're using the word greatness around him when all he's done is lead his team to two mediocre finishes. And if you are going to chalk up what Rivers has done to HIS supporting cast, don't tell me that Cutler hasn't accomplished anything because of HIS supporting cast.


You have already seen the best of him, he will never get any better (no matter how many more yrs experience you give him, so yes Eli and Roth > than Rivers (although I would not categorize either of those as great, at least I have yet to see evidence of it)).

So you're telling me that he's peaked after two years as a starter. I disagree.

[Blueflame]

Rivers deserved it last year. That's how he got in.

Brian Griese was also selected for Pro Bowl honors back in like 2001... unfortunately his third-degree shoulder separation made it impossible for him to actually play in that game, but he was honored nonetheless. He deserved it... that year... too. Didn't make him a successful NFL starting QB though.

[bowtown]

Brian Griese was also selected for Pro Bowl honors back in like 2001... unfortunately his third-degree shoulder separation made it impossible for him to actually play in that game, but he was honored nonetheless. He deserved it... that year... too. Didn't make him a successful NFL starting QB though.

As have:

Trent Dilfer
Chris Chandler
Doug Flutie
Steve Beureline
Brad Johnson
Elvis Grbac
Kordell Stewart
Jake Delhomme
Jake Plummer

A Prow Bowl appearance does not a great Quarterback make.

[boltaneer]

True, but he did stink the last 3rd of the season

He played poorly in the Oakland and KC games definitely (The Chiefs just have his number). I don't read too much into the Buffalo and Seattle games because those were terrible weather conditions and the opposing quarterbacks played poorly as well. But I believe the voting deadline was following the Denver game so his selection was a no-brainer.

No matter how anyone here tries to spin it, he played at a high level last year and earned it.

[Paladin]

In your opinion, of course.....

[sixtimeseight]

(The Chiefs just have his number)

he played at a high level

Does not follow.

[boltaneer]

Brian Griese was also selected for Pro Bowl honors back in like 2001... unfortunately his third-degree shoulder separation made it impossible for him to actually play in that game, but he was honored nonetheless. He deserved it... that year... too. Didn't make him a successful NFL starting QB though.

Thanks for the history lesson but I don't know what this has to do with my response to the original poster. There was an insinuation that Rivers didn't deserve the Pro-Bowl last year.

Your comments are a completely separate issue.

[boltaneer]

Does not follow.

I guess Peyton Manning didn't deserve the Pro Bowl this year since he had a couple of bad games...

[boltaneer]

Rich Gannon also went to a Pro Bowl one year. He probably even deserved it. Do you want Rich Gannon as your franchise quarterback?

Jay Cutler can't even make it to a Pro Bowl. And he's never deserved to go to one. Do you want him as your franchise quarterback?

[sixtimeseight]

I'm not the one using Pro Bowl selections as a criterion for a successful quarterback, you are. Try to keep up.

[boltaneer]

I'm not the one using Pro Bowl selections as a criterion for a successful quarterback, you are. Try to keep up.

I'm not the one who brought up the Pro Bowl stuff. Try to keep up. :)

[sixtimeseight]

Oh sorry, it was your fellow troll-in-arms, 400HZ. I can't tell all you bandwagoner johnny-come-lately San Diego trolls apart.

[400HZ]

I used it in the context that coaches and players in the league have a certain amount of respect for his ability. I also said that I don't think he's a top 5 quarterback right now.

[boltaneer]

I used it in the context that coaches and players in the league have a certain amount of respect for his ability. I also said that I don't think he's a top 5 quarterback right now.

You just have to accept that some people are out to argue with you just to argue. Whether they choose to read what you posted is a different story.

[boltaneer]

Oh sorry, it was your fellow troll-in-arms, 400HZ. I can't tell all you bandwagoner johnny-come-lately San Diego trolls apart.

I know that feeling.

I can't tell all you bandwagoner johnny-com-lately Bronco trolls apart either so we're even.

[Paladin]

This is a Broncos' board, dupe. We don't troll our own board., Why don't you assclowns go to a Sparkies' Board and join the circle jerk there.

Rivers still sucks.........

[boltaneer]

You can be a troll on your own board.

If you don't want to read my posts, put me on ignore.

Cutler still sucks.......

[theAPAOps5]

Cutler is far from being a great QB yet but he doesn't suck. Come on bolt you post good stuff here along with Xenos and 400hz but even that is a troll comment.

[boltaneer]

Cutler is far from being a great QB yet but he doesn't suck. Come on bolt you post good stuff here along with Xenos and 400hz but even that is a troll comment.

I'm usually ignore him but I'm just messing with the Bronco troll. Feeling a little chippy today. :)

I think he and Rivers both have bright futures in the AFC West.

[NW Bolt Fan]

There was a time when I truly hated Philip Rivers. 8 team bowl game parlay in '03. Only one game left and I win like $400 on a few bucks... Bastard beats (I think it was KSU) seemingly singlehandedly... Everytime he scrambled, or threw that funky looking pass it SEEMED like he should have been stopped. But they kept scoring.

And they won. And I lost my bet. And I said, "I HATE THAT BIZ"!!!

So I know how you Donk fans feel.

I'm glad he's on the team I pull for. Sorry for you guys. I know some good people who are also donk fans.

[Dedhed]

Bob Dole has a better arm than Rivers....

I don't care who you are, that's funny right there!

[Dedhed]

There was a time when I truly hated Philip Rivers. 8 team bowl game parlay in '03. Only one game left and I win like $400 on a few bucks... Bastard beats (I think it was KSU) seemingly singlehandedly... Everytime he scrambled, or threw that funky looking pass it SEEMED like he should have been stopped. But they kept scoring.

And they won. And I lost my bet. And I said, "I HATE THAT BIZ"!!!

So I know how you Donk fans feel.

I'm glad he's on the team I pull for. Sorry for you guys. I know some good people who are also donk fans.
I'm glad he's on the team you pull for too.

[sixtimeseight]

I know that feeling.

I can't tell all you bandwagoner johnny-com-lately Bronco trolls apart either so we're even.

Wow, guess that one stung a little, huh? Truth hurts, I know.

[boltaneer]

Wow, guess that one stung a little, huh? Truth hurts, I know.

I think it's more the Orange Mane equivalent to Godwin's law. When your argument has lost it's course this is the route posters here seem to take.

I just didn't understand where your statement came from. It was so completely out of left field. So I just threw it back in your face as an equally bizarre comeback.

Don't take this stuff so seriously. I use smilies in my posts quite often. It's all in fun, dude. :flower: