View Full Version : Tackles in the draft...who is best suited for left tackle, right tackle and guard?
OK, I just watched the the Senior Bowl focusing on Nicks and Cherilus. Cherilus is a really good run blocker. He is aggressive. He really gets into his guy near the line of scrimmage and he did a really good job at hitting a moving target on the second level. He even took a DB out of a play that I saw. But in pass protection, he really struggled anytime the pass rusher would go out side than go inside with a spin or rip move. He's not smooth at all. The only time he looked comfortable in pass protection was when the DE didnt change direction and when he was able to get his hands in the DEs chest. Does anyone else think he might be better suited at guard where he can have help on both sides? Again, he was very impressive in the running game but equally unimpressive in the passing game.
When I watched Carl Nicks, he looked very smooth. He was never really challenged on the outside. The only time his guy came close to beating him was when they would fake outside then go inside but even then Nicks neutralized him by neatly shoving his guy into the clutter at the LOS. When run blocking he was also able to get into his guy and take him out of the play. He actually demolished one guy, getting a pancake. What he is not as good at relative to Cherilous is, though he is mobile enough to get out to the LBs, he doesnt hit a moving target as well as Cherilus...at least not based on what I saw. But Nicks looked smooth enough on pass protection and competent enough in run blocking to possibly play both tackle positions. What is everyones thoughts on Nicks playing LT vs RT? Ive seen some say he is more suited for RT but he looked ok in the game to me at the senior bowl. I know he got beat in practice in one on ones but I question how much weight should be put on that when guys are playing for the first time after a layoff. Thoughts?
Another interesting prospect is John Greco. I saw him play at the East-West game where he played RT and he was really fantastic. He was really able to get out on guys at the 2nd level and he looked very smooth in pass protection. Granted, the senior bowl is better competition in theory but the guy looked good. Ive seen stuff about him moving to guard also but I havent seen him play a lot. Any thoughts on Greco and any opinions on him becoming a Bronco?
Does anyone else think Barry Richardson might make a better guard?
Who are the guys that you confidently can say are left tackles?
Requiem
02-03-2008, 01:12 PM
Cherilus is a RT for sure.
I saw Greco dominate at LT against Ball State this year and he's just a road grader. I don't think he can be an NFL LT (not good enough footwork and size), but he's a mauler type who will own at RT and offer some decent pass protection. Putting him at G wouldn't be a bad deal either.
Pro positions for Greco would probably go: RT, G, LT in that order. He'd be a last resort guy at LT; but he'd be good anywhere else. He should be a first day pick, (well, old time first day pick with three rounds) but this tackle class is so strong. Greco will probably be there on Day 2 somewhere between 4 and 5; and he'd be a solid pick-up.
BowlenBall
02-04-2008, 01:43 AM
From what I've read / heard:
Jake Long -- probably better at RT than LT, but can probably play both
Ryan Clady -- Left tackle (impressive feet for a huge guy)
Chris Williams -- Left tackle (really opened some eyes at the Senior Bowl)
Jeff Otah -- Left or Right tackle, but looks pretty raw technique-wise
Sam Baker -- Left tackle (not well-suited for right tackle or power running game)
Tony Hills -- Left tackle (great feet and speed for his size, former tight end)
King Dunlap -- Left or right tackle, but not a dominating drive-blocker
Gosder Cherilius -- Guard (too slow to play outside in the pros)
Carl Nicks - Projected as a guard by most draft sites, due to slow foot speed
Wow, that's a helluva list -- here's hoping we come away with two of these guys in the draft.... Williams in the 1st and Hills in the 2nd would make me ecstatic!
RocBronc
02-04-2008, 11:32 AM
The problem is guys we need a RT with Harris and Pears much more suited to Left Tackle.... Who do you guys like at RT???
BowlenBall
02-04-2008, 11:45 AM
The problem is guys we need a RT with Harris and Pears much more suited to Left Tackle.... Who do you guys like at RT???
Most left tackles can play right tackle -- not a big deal. However, only the nimblest and most agile tackles get put on the left side. Ergo, pick any of several this year, and plug 'em in.....
SoDak Bronco
02-04-2008, 01:51 PM
How do these tackles compare to last years guys? Where does Ryan Harris go in comparison to these prospects??
Rohirrim
02-04-2008, 02:13 PM
How do these tackles compare to last years guys? Where does Ryan Harris go in comparison to these prospects??
There ya go. Every time I hear anything from the Broncos on the subject of LT it's that Dennison and Shanahan are both looking forward to seeing what Harris can do at the position. I think anybody who believes the Broncos are going to take a LT high in this draft will be disappointed.
BowlenBall
02-04-2008, 02:26 PM
There ya go. Every time I hear anything from the Broncos on the subject of LT it's that Dennison and Shanahan are both looking forward to seeing what Harris can do at the position. I think anybody who believes the Broncos are going to take a LT high in this draft will be disappointed.
Just a reminder, Rohirrim -- Shanahan is famous (even amongst non-Bronco fanatics) for playing his cards close to the vest, AND sending out massive amounts of mis-information before the draft.
Logically speaking, our OT situation is abysmal -- perhaps worse than 20-25 other teams in the league, if not more. If we don't take an OT first or second, I'd be shocked....
As for Harris... he missed several games this season with a bad back -- even if Shanahan's bullish on him, he's not stupid.... those tend to be recurring injuries....
Rohirrim
02-04-2008, 02:29 PM
Just a reminder, Rohirrim -- Shanahan is famous (even amongst non-Bronco fanatics) for playing his cards close to the vest, AND sending out massive amounts of mis-information before the draft.
Logically speaking, our OT situation is abysmal -- perhaps worse than 20-25 other teams in the league, if not more. If we don't take an OT first or second, I'd be shocked....
As for Harris... he missed several games this season with a bad back -- even if Shanahan's bullish on him, he's not stupid.... those tend to be recurring injuries....
I know that. I don't think they're playing games this time. It just has a different feel. I think they genuinely like Harris. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.
BowlenBall
02-04-2008, 02:37 PM
I sincerely hope I'm wrong... nothing would be better than for Harris to bust out with an all-pro season.
However, I'm from the school of thought that you can never have enough good O-linemen, a la Kansas City, Philadelphia, or New England. I'm hoping that we strike now, while the iron is hot....
SoDak Bronco
02-04-2008, 04:15 PM
There ya go. Every time I hear anything from the Broncos on the subject of LT it's that Dennison and Shanahan are both looking forward to seeing what Harris can do at the position. I think anybody who believes the Broncos are going to take a LT high in this draft will be disappointed.
Roh,
You still didn't answer my question. how does this OT class rank compared to last years class, and where does Harris fall in the mix among the players..
Thanks,
Rohirrim
02-04-2008, 04:35 PM
When Ryan came out his strengths were his hands, his agility, excellent leverage and range, good foot movement and good quickness. His weaknesses were strength at the point of attack, whether he had enough beef and size, and injury history. Last few times I've heard, Dennison and Shanahan are high on his prospects. So, are they blowing smoke, or is that the real deal? Maybe Wabbit could help us out here? The Broncos got him in the third round. At the time, I thought that was a good deal. I thought he should have gone in the second. I guess in this draft he'd go in the Collins/Hills range.
TheDave
02-04-2008, 04:50 PM
I tend to agree that the broncos feel that they are set on the left side of the line... I could see this team going after a right tackle in the 2nd round.
elsid13
02-04-2008, 05:44 PM
Roh,
You still didn't answer my question. how does this OT class rank compared to last years class, and where does Harris fall in the mix among the players..
Thanks,
This class is better then last year by long shot in depth. Harris would fall toward the end of the 4th round/ beginning of the 5th in this draft.
mattob14
02-04-2008, 07:46 PM
Most left tackles can play right tackle -- not a big deal. However, only the nimblest and most agile tackles get put on the left side. Ergo, pick any of several this year, and plug 'em in.....
Actually, it was this line of thinking that put Pears at RT this year. RT doesn't take the quick feet and athletic ability of LT, but it requires more strength and power and better run blocking. I really don't see Clady, Collins, Cousins or Baker at RT. Also, since LT's are valued higher, I'm not sure it's a smart move to over-pick someone if we're only looking at them as a RT. That still leaves a long list of potential RT's though: Long, Williams (though he'd be better on the left side), Otah, Nicks, Cherilus, Greco and maybe Hills.
Beantown Bronco
02-05-2008, 10:30 AM
OK, I just watched the the Senior Bowl focusing on Nicks and Cherilus. Cherilus is a really good run blocker. He is aggressive. He really gets into his guy near the line of scrimmage and he did a really good job at hitting a moving target on the second level. He even took a DB out of a play that I saw. But in pass protection, he really struggled anytime the pass rusher would go out side than go inside with a spin or rip move. He's not smooth at all. The only time he looked comfortable in pass protection was when the DE didnt change direction and when he was able to get his hands in the DEs chest. Does anyone else think he might be better suited at guard where he can have help on both sides? Again, he was very impressive in the running game but equally unimpressive in the passing game.
Did they have him lining up on the left or right side?
gyldenlove
02-05-2008, 11:03 AM
From what I've read / heard:
Jake Long -- probably better at RT than LT, but can probably play both
Ryan Clady -- Left tackle (impressive feet for a huge guy)
Chris Williams -- Left tackle (really opened some eyes at the Senior Bowl)
Jeff Otah -- Left or Right tackle, but looks pretty raw technique-wise
Sam Baker -- Left tackle (not well-suited for right tackle or power running game)
Tony Hills -- Left tackle (great feet and speed for his size, former tight end)
King Dunlap -- Left or right tackle, but not a dominating drive-blocker
Gosder Cherilius -- Guard (too slow to play outside in the pros)
Carl Nicks - Projected as a guard by most draft sites, due to slow foot speed
Wow, that's a helluva list -- here's hoping we come away with two of these guys in the draft.... Williams in the 1st and Hills in the 2nd would make me ecstatic!
I would say Otah is better suited to playing OG right now, he is huge, he is super strong but lacks some of the techniques of an OT. I think he could be a Shawn Andrews type pick, convert him to G and stick him in a power game, he will dominate.
RocBronc
02-05-2008, 01:06 PM
The guy who makes the most sense for me is Nicks... I know someone who can play LT can probably do o.k. at RT but I'd rather find someone who is a better fit for us.
How about this...
Trade down enough spots to get a 2nd round pick say, about pick 20. Take Balmer with our first round pick, Our 2nd on Reggie Smith, and use our later 2nd round pick on Nicks.
BowlenBall
02-05-2008, 01:15 PM
The guy who makes the most sense for me is Nicks... I know someone who can play LT can probably do o.k. at RT but I'd rather find someone who is a better fit for us.
How about this...
Trade down enough spots to get a 2nd round pick say, about pick 20. Take Balmer with our first round pick, Our 2nd on Reggie Smith and with our 2nd rounder, and use our later 2nd round pick on Nicks.
Sounds great to me -- I'd be very happy with Nicks in the 2nd.
DBroncos4life
02-11-2008, 02:11 PM
Sounds great to me -- I'd be very happy with Nicks in the 2nd.
I pointed that out but Im a NU lover. I think he will be a good tackle in the NFL.
That One Guy
02-17-2008, 01:03 PM
They had a bit on Jake Long preparing for the combine on ESPN a bit ago and he was saying his #1 emphasis was to show up and impress with his speed. Sounds like maybe he knows what others were talking about and to be slotted as a RT prospect only will kill his value. Said he's shed the bad weight, put on good weight, and really thinks people are going to be impressed.
Now the question is, if he shows up as the quickest OT prospect, does that change anyones opinion of him or is it a zebra trying to change his spots?
Broncojef
02-17-2008, 01:52 PM
Actually, it was this line of thinking that put Pears at RT this year. RT doesn't take the quick feet and athletic ability of LT, but it requires more strength and power and better run blocking. I really don't see Clady, Collins, Cousins or Baker at RT. Also, since LT's are valued higher, I'm not sure it's a smart move to over-pick someone if we're only looking at them as a RT. That still leaves a long list of potential RT's though: Long, Williams (though he'd be better on the left side), Otah, Nicks, Cherilus, Greco and maybe Hills.
I really hope Harris isn't this groups answer to guard the left side long term for Jay. If we go into the season with Harris and Pears penciled in as "the guys" its going to be another long season. I said it when Foster was drafted and groomed and I'm saying it now....I just don't get it. Maybe the next set of coaches will have a clue. Get the long term Left Tackle of the future now.
Kaylore
02-17-2008, 02:01 PM
Tackles, especially left tackles, have to have quick feet. It's one of the reasons I don't believe Jake Long will do well at left tackle and could fall out of the the top ten because of that. He struggles with speed rushers and isn't very nimble on his feet at all. You want someone with the dexterity to adjust their big body to always have leverage. Clady and Williams are better choices for what we need.
TheDave
02-17-2008, 02:33 PM
Tackles, especially left tackles, have to have quick feet. It's one of the reasons I don't believe Jake Long will do well at left tackle and could fall out of the the top ten because of that. He struggles with speed rushers and isn't very nimble on his feet at all. You want someone with the dexterity to adjust their big body to always have leverage. Clady and Williams are better choices for what we need.
If Jake Long falls out of the top 10... Take him!
Worst case scenario we have the right tackle position sewn up for 15 years.
montrose
02-17-2008, 02:59 PM
If Jake Long falls out of the top 10... Take him!
Worst case scenario we have the right tackle position sewn up for 15 years.
I don't see it happening, but if does - jump on it! If Long could "compete" with Pears at RT and Harris can beat out a veteran at LT - it would be a great way to build an OL foundation for Jay.
Did they have him lining up on the left or right side?
Nicks was playing LT and Cherilus was playing RT. It was really astonishing to see Cherilus in the running game after watching several games of him at left tackle on a team that passed the ball a lot.
Dedhed
02-17-2008, 04:42 PM
I don't see it happening, but if does - jump on it! If Long could "compete" with Pears at RT and Harris can beat out a veteran at LT - it would be a great way to build an OL foundation for Jay.I'd put money on Pears being our starting LT next season, and Harris being on the right side.
As far as draftees, Chris Williams is the best pass blocking LT coming out. He's not going to blow anyone off the ball in the running game, but when it comes to pass protection he's second to no one in this class. Clady is the best of both worlds. Long is the best run blocker in the bunch.
Scarface
02-17-2008, 06:32 PM
I posted this on another forum but check out Branden Albert. This is must see tv when Mayock starts breaking down tape of this kid.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d806b5815
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2005/09/28/PH2005092802429.jpg
mattob14
02-17-2008, 07:29 PM
I posted this on another forum but check out Branden Albert. This is must see tv when Mayock starts breaking down tape of this kid.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d806b5815
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2005/09/28/PH2005092802429.jpg
That's a great clip on Albert. I hadn't seen any footage on him, but he looks impressive. Good size and very athletic. If he can transition to LT, he could be a nice pick-up in the latter half of round 1.
lookin' glass
02-17-2008, 07:50 PM
I'm not sold on Harris either. As stated Denver is in dire need of DT's. That said if they could find a way to grab both Clady and Albert I think it would go a long way towards getting this team back to the playoffs. I don't know about Clady's fire or smarts. This Albert kid is a player. He's smart and has that mean streak in him. Some have suggested Otah doesn't fit Denver's 'scheme' and I'd like to know why. But where to get some good DT's?.....
Dedhed
02-17-2008, 11:38 PM
I posted this on another forum but check out Branden Albert. This is must see tv when Mayock starts breaking down tape of this kid.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d806b5815
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2005/09/28/PH2005092802429.jpg
I haven't seen anything about Albert because I've been looking exclusively at OTs, but his athletic ability on those clips is as clear as day. 6'7" 315 lbs, and he can get out in space like that? Are you kidding me?
Kaylore
02-18-2008, 01:34 AM
I posted this on another forum but check out Branden Albert. This is must see tv when Mayock starts breaking down tape of this kid.
I saw that too and it made me really want the guy. He's amazing. Unfortunately Shanahan probably thinks he's too big and we have bigger needs at tackle. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
oubronco
02-19-2008, 12:22 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/7804328/Scouting-Combine-Preview:-Offensive-linemen
does the branden albert video not load for anyone else? i've been trying for the last few days now and cant get it to work...
That One Guy
02-19-2008, 05:17 PM
After seeing the Albert bit, there's just too many OTs squeezing into the 1st. I expect some falling to happen there. We now have like 6 OTs in the first or something, I just don't see that happening. Too many teams will draft for need and not enough see OT as their big concern.
ohiobronco2
02-19-2008, 10:12 PM
After watching the videos available there, Albert looks to be a pretty good football player. I still favor a player like Clady because I think he can do it all on the O Line. I wouldn't be disappointed if we went Offensive line with our first 2 picks, though I would like to go OT and then DT. Also, Mendenhall really does look like a better back than McFadden. Mcfadden doesn't look like he is really solid (build-looks like he has bird legs to me. I don't think he picks up the tough yards.) and I can't believe that Highsmith was able to keep pace with him like that.