ESPiN Ranks Top All Time QBs

[chickennob2]

And they have Elway 6th. Here's their list:

1. Unitas
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Marino
5. Manning
6. Elway
7. Bradshaw
8. Favre
9. Graham
10. Fouts

I personally find this ridiculous. Manning, who thrives in an era of passing rules that were created to suit him carries his one ring to the 5th spot ahead of Elway, who took his team to five superbowls and won two of them.

And I realize Unitas was ahead of his time, and the first glimpse that most people had of what the NFL passing game would become. But I will never understand the obsession with him. Being the first doesn't make you the best.


Your thoughts?

[Killericon]

Elway should be higher, Young should be on the list instead of Bradshaw.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I personally find this ridiculous. Manning, who thrives in an era of passing rules that were created to suit him carries his one ring to the 5th spot ahead of Elway, who took his team to four superbowls and won two of them.


+1

And Brady at #3?

What kind of dirt weed is this dink smoking? ???

[backup qb]

My list(for what its worth):
1. Elway
2. Montana
3. Favre
4. Marino
5. Brady
6. Unitas
7. S Young

[backup qb]

8. Peyton

[2KBack]

And they have Elway 6th. Here's their list:

1. Unitas
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Marino
5. Manning
6. Elway
7. Bradshaw
8. Favre
9. Graham
10. Fouts

I personally find this ridiculous. Manning, who thrives in an era of passing rules that were created to suit him carries his one ring to the 5th spot ahead of Elway, who took his team to four superbowls and won two of them.

And I realize Unitas was ahead of his time, and the first glimpse that most people had of what the NFL passing game would become. But I will never understand the obsession with him. Being the first doesn't make you the best.


Your thoughts?

There's a lot of personal opinion that goes into these. I'd say swap Elway and Brady, and Marino and Manning, and it's a pretty good list. Manning has one a superbowl AND has the stats, he at least has earned being ahead of Marino. None of those guys carried sub par teams (or just offenses) the way Elway did though. Especially Brady.

[broncogary]

Elway led Denver to 5 Super Bowl appearances.

[alkemical]

Elway should be higher, Young should be on the list instead of Bradshaw.

I don't know about that. Bradshaw was the QB for quite a few SB's.

[Killericon]

I don't know about that. Bradshaw was the QB for quite a few SB's.

Yeah, but when you think of those Steelers squads, you don't think of their passing attack, now do you?

[alkemical]

Yeah, but when you think of those Steelers squads, you don't think of their passing attack, now do you?

Actually, yeah. Maybe it's different being in PA. But trust me i hear all about Bradshaw & Swann.

[Atwater His Ass]

I'm not taking the bait.

[oubronco]

Manning, who thrives in an era of passing rules that were created to suit him

DUDE they were created FOR him

[Beej]

How in the heck can they put Marino ahead of Elway? Ridiculous.

And I'd put Jim Kelly on the list instead of Fouts.

[Gcver2ver3]

i don't believe any unbiased experts would form that ranking...


show me the link...

[vancejohnson82]

tough to compare different eras

but Elway had to deal with his recievers being manhandled

[Needa Pass Rush]

Marino in front of Favre stands out like a sore thumb. All Marino had was records and now Favre has most of those and the rings to boot.

[dbfan21]

How in the heck can they put Marino ahead of Elway? Ridiculous.

And I'd put Jim Kelly on the list instead of Fouts.

Totally agree. Elway did more with less than all of the QB's on the list.

[lex]

Denvers always going to get shafted when it comes to stuff like this from E!SPN. Half the people that work at E!SPN are from the northeast, many of which are from Mass. and you dont think any of them are bitter about the fact that New England didnt beat the Broncos form 1980-2000...you dont think any of them are bitter that Denver is 5-1 against them in the Bradichick era?

Also, I like how he puts Bradshaw so high when the argument for Bradshaw is rings, yet Starr isnt even on there. This is piss poor.

[Houshyamama]

What a joke

[-Slap-]

Unitas and Elway are 1 and 1A. Who cares about the rest?

[snowtrx]

This list sucks ASS!

QB is about winning first, then everything else is a wonderful subjective debate. If a QB only has one championship or hasnt inspired his team to multiple SB's, then they are like the PGA tour, they are playing in a different tourny than the best.

Let me pick on Favre for a second. Favre is a great QB who has shown amazing longevity and toughness. But he doesnt belong in the 1st tier of this conversation! He went to two SB's with one team that was the best team in the NFL at the time. He has NEVER willed his team to overachieve even a SB appearance. He has so many more unsuccessful plays than succesfull plays in the 2nd season, that Payten Manning feels bad for the guy Ha!

Marino and Manning, great QB's (maybe best regular season QB's ever) but they are 2nd tier overall, just under the best. Elway, Montanna, and Brady have something special beyond physical abilities. MJ and Russel special! I'm 30, so to comment on if the older QB's belong or dont belong with these three would be ignorant.

[lex]

This list sucks ASS!

QB is about winning first, then everything else is a wonderful subjective debate. If a QB only has one championship or hasnt inspired his team to multiple SB's, then they are like the PGA tour, they are playing in a different tourny than the best.

Let me pick on Favre for a second. Favre is a great QB who has shown amazing longevity and toughness. But he doesnt belong in the 1st tier of this conversation! He went to two SB's with one team that was the best team in the NFL at the time. He has NEVER willed his team to overachieve even a SB appearance. He has so many more unsuccessful plays than succesfull plays in the 2nd season, that Payten Manning feels bad for the guy Ha!

Marino and Manning, great QB's (maybe best regular season QB's ever) but they are 2nd tier overall, just under the best. Elway, Montanna, and Brady have something special beyond physical abilities. MJ and Russel special! I'm 30, so to comment on if the older QB's belong or dont belong with these three would be ignorant.

No, its not all about winning. Football is a team game. In a lot of cases the winning teams have better defenses and/or running games. But having said that, the guy should at least be consistent. If its about winning, put Starr and Graham on there. If its about passing, which is the main function of a QB, Marino should be higher.

[Williams]

You can rank the all-time QB's yourself if you like...

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/rank?versionId=1&listId=82


Seems the fans have a bit more sense than the "experts". This list at least has Elway at #4.

[snowtrx]

No, its not all about winning. Football is a team game. In a lot of cases the winning teams have better defenses and/or running games. But having said that, the guy should at least be consistent. If its about winning, put Starr and Graham on there. If its about passing, which is the main function of a QB, Marino should be higher.

Thats my point though. In my oppinion the best should have the physical abilities AND the ability to inspire their teamates to overachieve or execute perfectly. Starr, Graham, Bradshaw, Stoughback (?), and Unitis (?) have every right to have an opportunity for first tier, but I don't know those decades. We all know football is a team game, lets not even dilute the point by going there because thats my point in proving Elways greatness! 2nd tier guys simply where different performers against elite opponents in the 2nd season. Elway overachieved because he willed his teamates to play above their abilities and executed more successful plays than unsuccessful plays when it mattered most. Marino, Farve, and Manning (incomplete) simply did not.

[lex]

Thats my point though. In my oppinion the best should have the physical abilities AND the ability to inspire their teamates to overachieve or execute perfectly. Starr, Graham, Bradshaw, Stoughback (?), and Unitis (?) have every right to have an opportunity for first tier, but I don't know those decades. We all know football is a team game, lets not even dilute the point by going there because thats my point in proving Elways greatness! 2nd tier guys simply where different performers against elite opponents in the 2nd season. Elway overachieved because he willed his teamates to play above their abilities and executed more successful plays than unsuccessful plays when it mattered most. Marino, Farve, and Manning (incomplete) simply did not.

Youre whole angle is a lot of fluff though. You dismiss stat horse QBs because they play on bad teams and the QBs who play on good teams you attribute them being good because of some unquantifiable thing that may not exist.

[snowtrx]

And speaking of the older QB's, can some of the more experienced fans here help enlighten us younger guys?

Why is Johny U. held in such higher regard than Otto Graham? From the tape I have seen, Graham looks better. One of the best deep balls in history and more championships.

Also, in what order would you rank these old timers? Unitis (?), Graham, Stoughback(?), Bradshaw, and Starr.

Thank you much in advance. :notworthy

[KCStud]

Switch Elway with Marino. Montana and Brady are definitely worthy of being in the top 3. Both never lost/lose. Both are the definition of clutch. Elway was the definition of mental toughness and also the comeback kid. He deserves to be top 5 at the very least

[snowtrx]

Youre whole angle is a lot of fluff though. You dismiss stat horse QBs because they play on bad teams and the QBs who play on good teams you attribute them being good because of some unquantifiable thing that may not exist.

Then i apologize to Dan Foutes, Archie Manning, Fran Tarkenten (?), and whoever else who didnt have an equal opportunity. Manning, Favre, and Marino all have had more than enough to work with to be compared Elway and Brady.

[Northman]

For what its worth this is my rankings.

1. Elway
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Aikman
5. Favre
6. Young
7. Manning
8. Marino
9. Staubach
10. Moon

[snowtrx]

For what its worth this is my rankings.

1. Elway
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Aikman
5. Favre
6. Young
7. Manning
8. Marino
9. Staubach
10. Moon

Moon? I like your Jessica Biel pick better!

[PatsWin2002]

Any list that doesn't have Brady as #1 is a travesty and disrespectful. You all may have to perish as a result.

[rovolution]

Fouts is Mr. Overrated IMO.

Him and Ken Anderson had the same career, except Ken actually got to a Super Bowl.

[The Lone Bolt]

Fouts should be #1!;D

And where the hell is Jon Haydl?

[Northman]

Moon? I like your Jessica Biel pick better!

Ha!

[Inkana7]

For what its worth this is my rankings.

1. Elway
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Aikman
5. Favre
6. Young
7. Manning
8. Marino
9. Staubach
10. Moon

Any list without Fran Tarkenton fails.

[Bronx33]

Elway should be higher, Young should be on the list instead of Bradshaw.


I agree...

[Northman]

Any list without Fran Tarkenton fails.


He would be in my top 20, but not top 10.

[KCStud]

LMAO how is Elway better than Montana? Montana was always better, even when he switched teams and went to KC he still beat Elway

[Northman]

LMAO how is Elway better than Montana? Montana was always better, even when he switched teams and went to KC he still beat Elway


Elway got more out of less.

[BroncoBuff]

Marino four slots ahead of Favre is the dead giveaway this guy is a nut.

Neither Marino nor Elway should rank above Favre. Bradshaw neither.

[KCStud]

Elway got more out of less.

Less? The talent on SF's teams was not that much better then the SB teams in Denver.

Montana always won and was money in the playoffs. So is Brady. Elway was not. In the end Montana and Brady will probably both be ahead of Elway. Elway is still a top 5 QB though

[Los Broncos]

Otto Graham should be higher on the list.

Elway at sixth is absurd.

[alkemical]

aardvarks are absurd!

[yavoon]

Elway led Denver to 5 Super Bowl appearances.

to be fair the 3 trouncings were in an era where the afc was the junior league, right in the middle of the nfc's 14 straight.

[yavoon]

For what its worth this is my rankings.

1. Elway
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Aikman
5. Favre
6. Young
7. Manning
8. Marino
9. Staubach
10. Moon

I like that warren is on, moon deserves some love.

[BroncoBuff]

I cannot simply rank "Best QBs" overall ... I split my rankings into two distinct groups: a) Physical tools and b) Intangibles and leadership:
PHYSICAL SKILLS
1. Steve Young - Accuracy of a diamond cutter, scrambler and runner par excellence
2. Randall Cunningham - Best arm and legs combo ever - but no Mensa candidate
3. John Elway - Mabe the best "buyer of more time" in the pocket ever
4. Brett Favre - Well above average in every measurable, though often wild (see NFC Ch-Ship OT)
5. Jeff George - Couldn't scramble much, but best arm EVER. Before arguing, why would teams keep signing the jerk after he turned 40? Best WR sibce Rice agrees.

INTANGIBLES, LEADERSHIP
1. Tom Brady - Won SBs with 3 very different casts (assuming Sunday), only playoff loss ever was Invesco in '05 (?)
2. Joe Montana - Easy call, though KCStud is silly - SF was far more talented that us
3. John Elway - Won by sheer force of will, it hardly mattered who the other 10 guys were
4. Johnny Unitas
5. Staubach/Bradshaw - Both great leaders both, but their rosters were loaded with talent

[Los Broncos]

During an astounding career in which the Browns compiled a 105-17-4 record, at the time of his retirement Graham's 86.6 career pass rating (combined AAFC and NFL) served as one of the best of all time, tossing 88 touchdowns in ten seasons of play.

In his final year of play, Graham won the Hickok Belt as top professional athlete of the year, and ten years later, he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. In 1999, he was ranked number 7 on The Sporting News' list of the 100 Greatest Football Players, the highest-ranking player who had played in the AAFC.

Otto Graham is considered by many historians to be one of the greatest winners in the history of professional sports. Graham played six seasons in the NFL and took the Cleveland Browns to the NFL Championship Game all six seasons, winning three NFL titles. Including four seasons in which his team captured four AAFC titles, Graham played ten total seasons of professional football and made the league championship game all ten seasons, winning seven league titles. In his single season as a professional basketball player, the Rochester Royals also captured the league title. Thus, in 11 seasons as a professional athlete, Otto Graham's teams made the championship all eleven years, winning eight titles.

Also won seven passing titles.

[KCStud]

I cannot simply rank "Best QBs" overall ... I split my rankings into two distinct groups: a) Physical tools and b) Intangibles and leadership:
PHYSICAL SKILLS
1. Steve Young - Accuracy of a diamond cutter, scrambler and runner par excellence
2. Randall Cunningham - Best arm and legs combo ever - but no Mensa candidate
3. John Elway - Mabe the best "buyer of more time" in the pocket ever
4. Brett Favre - Well above average in every measurable, though often wild (see NFC Ch-Ship OT)
5. Jeff George - Couldn't scramble much, but best arm EVER. Before arguing, why would teams keep signing the jerk after he turned 40? Best WR sibce Rice agrees.

INTANGIBLES, LEADERSHIP
1. Tom Brady - Won SBs with 3 very different casts (assuming Sunday), only playoff loss ever was Invesco in '05 (?)
2. Joe Montana - Easy call, though KCStud is silly - SF was far more talented that us
3. John Elway - Won by sheer force of will, it hardly mattered who the other 10 guys were
4. Johnny Unitas
5. Staubach/Bradshaw - Both great leaders both, but their rosters were loaded with talent

I really don't think the talent gap was that much different.

Oh and Brady lost to Indy last year in the playoffs. He's lost 2 playoff games

[BroncoBuff]

You're right - they did lose last year to Indy in that incredible 2nd half comeback (maybe I should put Peyton on my list for that).

And what about '02 - the year the Raiders went - who did NE lose to?



And sorry, Lynchmob. I don't rank guys in the pre-facemask era.

[Atwater His Ass]

Less? The talent on SF's teams was not that much better then the SB teams in Denver.

Montana always won and was money in the playoffs. So is Brady. Elway was not. In the end Montana and Brady will probably both be ahead of Elway. Elway is still a top 5 QB though

I hope you are referring to 97 and 98 Denver teams. Otherwise you're retarded, or just blind to the fact that Elway was taking teams to the SB that had no business there what-so-ever.

[gunns]

Elway should be higher, Young should be on the list instead of Bradshaw.

Bradshaw on a top 10 list is laughable. The Steelers won those SB's despite Bradshaw and because of their defense. And Elway anything but top 3 is also laughable. He DID lead his teams to 5 SB's.

I do like seeing Fouts on a top 10 list though. That's rare and he should be

[snowtrx]

Marino four slots ahead of Favre is the dead giveaway this guy is a nut.
Neither Marino nor Elway should rank above Favre. Bradshaw neither.

Then you rank Elway higher than Favre in both your distinctive groups. Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

I cannot simply rank "Best QBs" overall ... I split my rankings into two distinct groups: a) Physical tools and b) Intangibles and leadership:
PHYSICAL SKILLS
1. Steve Young - Accuracy of a diamond cutter, scrambler and runner par excellence
2. Randall Cunningham - Best arm and legs combo ever - but no Mensa candidate
3. John Elway - Mabe the best "buyer of more time" in the pocket ever
4. Brett Favre - Well above average in every measurable, though often wild (see NFC Ch-Ship OT)
5. Jeff George - Couldn't scramble much, but best arm EVER. Before arguing, why would teams keep signing the jerk after he turned 40? Best WR sibce Rice agrees.

INTANGIBLES, LEADERSHIP
1. Tom Brady - Won SBs with 3 very different casts (assuming Sunday), only playoff loss ever was Invesco in '05 (?)
2. Joe Montana - Easy call, though KCStud is silly - SF was far more talented that us
3. John Elway - Won by sheer force of will, it hardly mattered who the other 10 guys were
4. Johnny Unitas
5. Staubach/Bradshaw - Both great leaders both, but their rosters were loaded with talent.

Favre is OVERRATED. Here is a third distinct group to consider. Playoffs! Like I said before, Favre had soooooooo many more unsuccessful plays in the Playoffs than successful ones, that Payten Manning feels bad for the guy!

[ayjackson]

I'd have Unitas, Elway, Montana and Brady in my top four, but hell if I know which way to order them.

[BroncoBuff]

Then you rank Elway higher than Favre in both your distinctive groups. Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!
Wow ... you're RIGHT! Shame on me ... I guess despite feigning objectivity, my love of Elway got the better of me ROFL!

But truth be told - objectively - Favre was the better quarterback. His won-loss record, TD/Int ratio, on and on, are all much better than Elway's. His teams consistently had winning records, though often with (like Elway) little or no talent around him. And he was named NFL MVP three years in a row ... that is cold hard money.

I don't think he's overrated per se - after all, he's no higher than 5th on any list in this thread - but he is disgustingly and sloppily over-fawned-over by the media. And despite everything I've said here, I don't care for him much myself.

.

[ro_50]

That's a crappy list.

Marino is not above Elway and Manning isnt nor Brady. What garbage.

No qualms about Unitas or Montana ahead of Elway (even though I would pick Elway to lead my team) but Manning and Brady? Please, they are great, legendary but what Elway did w/ those teams he got to the Super Bowl that lost was remarkable.

Manning or Brady couldn't lead those teams to the Super Bowl.

[ayjackson]

what Elway did w/ those teams he got to the Super Bowl that lost was remarkable.

Manning or Brady couldn't lead those teams to the Super Bowl.

Brady's teams in his three Superbowls were pretty ordinary from a talent perspective. Look at some of the skill positions - Gay and Earthwind Moreland at CB; Givens and Patten at WR; Antowain Smith at RB. Those Superbowls were all about Brady scoring points when he had to and Belichick preparing the defence each week with a different gameplan.

[KCStud]

I hope you are referring to 97 and 98 Denver teams. Otherwise you're retarded, or just blind to the fact that Elway was taking teams to the SB that had no business there what-so-ever.

yes I am refering to those teams

[lex]

yes I am refering to those teams


Look! Its **** head again. If you switch Montana and Elway and put Elway on those Niners teams, SF still wins as many SBs if not more...and those 80s Denver teams dont even make it to the SB with Montana at QB. Montana was a system guy. Elway was not.

[Cito Pelon]

How in the heck can they put Marino ahead of Elway? Ridiculous.

And I'd put Jim Kelly on the list instead of Fouts.

Tarkenton should be on that list as well.

[Scarface]

LOL at Manning above Elway.

Does anyone honestly believe Pey Pey takes those 80's Broncos to the SB?

Now does anyone honestly believe Elway w/Edge(and later Addai), Harrison, Wayne, and that O-Line only go to one SB???

LMAO!

[gunns]

But truth be told - objectively - Favre was the better quarterback. His won-loss record, TD/Int ratio, on and on, are all much better than Elway's. His teams consistently had winning records, though often with (like Elway) little or no talent around him. And he was named NFL MVP three years in a row ... that is cold hard money.


Is that objective BB or is that having heard a lot of "over-fawned media hype"? I don't see that the records mentioned are "much better" than Elways. Td/int ration is better that's it. Shall we add in Elway's rushing yards and TD's? Who knows if Elway had come back for a 17th year also as far as the win/loss record. He had Favre beat in that area up through both their 16th years. As far as little to no talent, Favre had very good receivers, Sharpe, Freeman, Brooks, throughout his first 8 years, Walker and Driver after that plus Ahman Green AND he had a very good defense on his team. When that defense went away things weren't working quite so well for Favre. Elway had to take the entire team on his back and had success with little talent. I'll give Favre those two MVP's but that third one was a slam in the face of Barry Sanders and wasn't deserved. More media hype.

[chanesaw]

1. Elway
2. Favre
3. Montanna
4. Unitas
5. Marino
6. Tarkenton
7. Brady
8. Manning
9. Young
10. Moon

[The Moops]

You can make arguments for a lot of these guys except one: Dan Fouts?!?!

Are you kidding me . . . he's a borderline HOFer. Dan Fouts couldn't hold Roger Staubach's jock strap. Fouts never even took his team to the Super Bowl and lost 2 AFC championship games, one at home. I think it's ridiculous that Manning is ahead of Elway. Did Elway have Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne or Dallas Clark during the 1980s . . . I love Vance Johnson and Mark Jackson, but they can't compare . . . oh, yeah, Clarence Kay?

ESPN list:
1. Unitas
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Marino
5. Manning
6. Elway
7. Bradshaw
8. Favre
9. Graham
10. Fouts

My list:
1. Graham (7 titles in 10 years, championship game all 10 years)
2. Montana
3. Unitas
4. Staubach
5. Elway
6. Baugh
7. Favre
8. Brady
9. Bradshaw
10. Manning

[Inkana7]

Props for getting Slingin' Sammy on your list, Moops.

[BroncoBuff]

Brady's teams in his three Superbowls were pretty ordinary from a talent perspective.
That's correct ... another way of looking at it is:
Tom Brady has taken three very different casts to 4 Super Bowls in just 7 years.

And assuming tomorrow, he WON FOUR SBs in 7 years despite 3 different casts.


I'm amending my list to put Brady on top. (Moops - are you serious, Brady #8? Shame on you tsk tsk)

[dsmoot]

My list(for what its worth):
1. Elway
2. Montana
3. Favre
4. Marino
5. Brady
6. Unitas
7. S Young

I have been fortunate to see every one of these players in person. Unitas is No. 1. I am an Elway fan.

[spdirty]

My list.

1. Elway.
2. Cutler.
3-10. I don't care.