For Those who don't want O-Line, O-line, O-line

[cmhargrove]

Just watched a highlight video of TD in SB32. I loved TD. TD and Elway are my favorite Broncos ever. However....

Just watch the highlight film. For those who don't want us to seek out the best offensive linemen we can buy, steal, or draft, just watch the video again. Everyone is stuck on a Packer - and the Packers are moving backwards. The goal line work just makes you want to cry. All the receivers are blocking (which I think they still do), but we really miss Howard Griffith. He was a special player for us.

I will take people that fall to us, and i would love to draft Ellis. But honestly, the Broncos have been and should be an offensive juggernaut first. I will wait a year or two to find our defense. Let's fix the offensive line first.

Try this link first:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d805e920d

If it doesn't work, go here and look for the TD MVP video:
http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/cadillac#

[montrose]

Couldn't agree more. Is DL a concern? Absolutely. However, the future of the Broncos is built on Jay Cutler and the offense. It is vital that the Broncos build an OL that is not just serviceable, but dominant. Watch one Patriots game with the volume muted (so you don't have to hear the Brady love-fest), and you'll soon be overwhelmed by his incredible pass protection. I would urge Shanahan and co. to continue bringing in OL, even to compete with the youngsters that allegedly played well last season. Case in point: take a look at Montrae Holland, a career journeyman brought in to "compete" with Chris Kuper. The plan all along was for Kuper to start; after all, you generally don't sign starting OL to 1 year, minimum deals as Holland did. So what happens? Holland beats him out cleanly and is the team's best OL all season.

Also props on the Griffith mention, we've needed a true blocking FB for years. Kubiak realized that and snatched up Vonta Leach as soon as he went down to Houston. Now, with less talent at QB, RB and WR - his Texans offense is more explosive than Denver's running the exact same system. Why? Solid OL play and superior blocking from the FB position optimizes the scheme.

If Denver is serious about making a Super Bowl run, they best begin re-building their OL. Hopefully they can truly solidify the unit by 2009/2010 when (hopefully) the Pats, Colts, and Chargers are beginning a downturn. By that point, Cutler should be hitting on all cylinders with an OL that will give him adequate protection and a consistent running game for support.

[BleedingOrange]

Just look at KC and see what a great oline and no D offers. No thanks, I'd rather have a defense that can stop someone every now and then. Watch the 2 games they played before SB 32 and you'll see how much that D helped them to get to play against GB.

[cmhargrove]

Just look at KC and see what a great oline and no D offers. No thanks, I'd rather have a defense that can stop someone every now and then. Watch the 2 games they played before SB 32 and you'll see how much that D helped them to get to play against GB.

I think next year we will see a remix of our Coyer style defenses from 2005 and 2006. Penetrating DT's, more blitzing, Champ playing off and watching the QB... That will be enough to keep us in games if we have a strong offense.

Did you watch the video?

I kind of feel like all Broncos fans should love the O-line first, that is our history. Just my opinion, I guess...

[BleedingOrange]

I've watched that game several times. I agree that having a great oline is important, but not at the expense of the rest of the team.

I think you have to look at the talent on the team and evaluate where you are at. I think DT and RT are the two most needed spots for upgrade on the team. Nalen (if healthy which he should be) improves the play of center and helps both guards look better. Being able to put your best guys on the line instead of whoever is healthy will help. I think LT will be improved with either Pears or Harris. Pears played better at LT two years ago as a rookie than Lepsis did this year. Pears was playing out of position this year and I believe putting him back on the left side you'll see alot of improvement in his play. The problem is this team doesn't seem to have a real RT. They need someone who can play against the power rush. That will do more to improve this line than anything else.

DT enough said.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Just look at KC and see what a great oline and no D offers. No thanks, I'd rather have a defense that can stop someone every now and then. Watch the 2 games they played before SB 32 and you'll see how much that D helped them to get to play against GB.

Haha, now they have a solid defense and the offense is in the crapper.

Anyhow, I'd like to find the right mix. We have a pretty solid offense right now with the increasing maturity of Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler and some playmakers in Stokes, Young, Henry etc. We finished just out of the top 5 in offensive production and I think the scoring will come as these guys mature in this offense. It wouldn't hurt to pay some attention to the offensive line in the offseason and it might be worth taking a look at some of these fullbacks coming out this year to improve run blocking and pass protection.

The defense was downright embarrassing this year starting up front. We have some guys that are young and talented but we need more. We need somebody who can be a disruption and play with some attitude. Although he borders on playing a bit dirty at times I can't help but think what a difference a guy like Vince Wilfork would make in the middle of our defensive line. The guy plays with attitude and I would love to see us go after someone with a similar makeup.

[OABB]

Pears was playing out of position this year and I believe putting him back on the left side you'll see alot of improvement in his play. The problem is this team doesn't seem to have a real RT. They need someone who can play against the power rush. That will do more to improve this line than anything else.


Isn't Pears a natural RT? I thought he was playing out of position as an LT two years ago.

[BleedingOrange]

Pears is 6'8 with a huge wingspan. He plays better against the speed rush (like two years ago) than against the power rush (last year). That was what I meant by out of position.

[BleedingOrange]

When talking about KCs oline, I figured everyone would realize it was in ref to several years ago.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Just watched a highlight video of TD in SB32. I loved TD. TD and Elway are my favorite Broncos ever. However....

Just watch the highlight film. For those who don't want us to seek out the best offensive linemen we can buy, steal, or draft, just watch the video again. Everyone is stuck on a Packer - and the Packers are moving backwards. The goal line work just makes you want to cry. All the receivers are blocking (which I think they still do), but we really miss Howard Griffith. He was a special player for us.

I will take people that fall to us, and i would love to draft Ellis. But honestly, the Broncos have been and should be an offensive juggernaut first. I will wait a year or two to find our defense. Let's fix the offensive line first.


You know, in the long term you are right. The team needs a superior offensive line. They need to be able to dictate terms in the trenches.

However, in the short term the defense is strong enough to carry the team save the lack of talent in the trench.

The franchise should draft OL and spend its big money on star DT talent.

[iforgotmypassword]

its a little more basic and simpler to fix the O-line and D-line

its simply tackles.... O and D, to fix an OL is a daunting task, to fix a DL can take years

we dont have to do that, D-line is very very close, DE we got Doom, Jarvis, Crowder, Moss, Mallard is a tuff rotational guy who can play outside/inside

DT is a concern, Thomas will be tough, I thought Sam Adams played very well while he was here, stats weren't great but his snap anticipation was far and away the best on the team and he always seemed to get penetration, dont know why we cut him prolly age but whatev.

So in my oppinion were looking at one starting D tackle and another for depth.

Oline- the interior is set, and the depth is set, we need 1 possibly 2 tackles to come in and be a solid starter for us.

There are two steps we can take in my oppinion

1. Spend 3 or even 4 late round picks on tackles, bring in a whole crop of undrafted tackles, sign a few bargain tackles in FA, and let training camp be one hell of a battle between hungry ass guys who wanna earn thier job and have to play like one mean SOB all year to keep thier spots

-OR-

2. Spend a First round pick on a sure-fire, Blue collar tackle that can protect the best young QB in the leuge for years to come. And honestly, in this draft, I think we can get that 1st round talent in the 2nd or even 3rd (Heath Benedict)

[chaz]

This debate between offensive and defensive lines being the priority is absolutely ridiculous. We need both. Both need more talent, both need help. We aren't going to compete until we have both. Holes on either line are going to be exploited by the great teams we need to be able to beat.

[cmhargrove]

This debate between offensive and defensive lines being the priority is absolutely ridiculous. We need both. Both need more talent, both need help. We aren't going to compete until we have both. Holes on either line are going to be exploited by the great teams we need to be able to beat.

The point is, we have one pick in the first, one in the second. Those our our best bargaining chip for drafting or trading for top notch talent. The coaches have to make a choice here, so the topic is relevant. You may have to choose between the best D-Tackle or the best O-Tackle.

Personally, I want to crush people at the goal line. Give me a dominant set of bookends over any player on the field. I love Champ Bailey, but i would even trade him to get the right set of dominant O-linemen on the field. (that's not a knock on Champ, it's just my position if I were head coach).

[El Guapo]

Wow, Howard Griffith. I miss that guy. . .

[fdf]

I think next year we will see a remix of our Coyer style defenses from 2005 and 2006. Penetrating DT's, more blitzing, Champ playing off and watching the QB... That will be enough to keep us in games if we have a strong offense.

Did you watch the video?

I kind of feel like all Broncos fans should love the O-line first, that is our history. Just my opinion, I guess...

That defense tends to collapse in the second half. The only way the offense helps that is if we don't go conservative in the second half.

[Beantown Bronco]

That defense tends to collapse in the second half. The only way the offense helps that is if we don't go conservative in the second half.

....or they just need to assemble such a good oline and true blocking fb that they will be able to keep running the ball and chewing clock even when the other team knows it's coming.

[chadta]

the thing i noticed most watching the game was that our players, especially john elway got cheered really well in san diego , what are the odds of a charger ever getting cheered in denver ? :rofl:

[bpc]

Just look at KC and see what a great oline and no D offers. No thanks, I'd rather have a defense that can stop someone every now and then. Watch the 2 games they played before SB 32 and you'll see how much that D helped them to get to play against GB.

Indianapolis doesn't seem to be doing too bad. 5 straight years with 12 win seasons after building their offense around Manning.

[bpc]

Pears is 6'8 with a huge wingspan. He plays better against the speed rush (like two years ago) than against the power rush (last year). That was what I meant by out of position.

Pears struggles against any DE that has two moves in his arsenal.

[bpc]

This debate between offensive and defensive lines being the priority is absolutely ridiculous. We need both. Both need more talent, both need help. We aren't going to compete until we have both. Holes on either line are going to be exploited by the great teams we need to be able to beat.

That being said we should draft some offensive linemen this year.

Sign Corey Williams. Boom, there go.

[dsmoot]

I've watched that game several times. I agree that having a great oline is important, but not at the expense of the rest of the team.

I think you have to look at the talent on the team and evaluate where you are at. I think DT and RT are the two most needed spots for upgrade on the team. Nalen (if healthy which he should be) improves the play of center and helps both guards look better. Being able to put your best guys on the line instead of whoever is healthy will help. I think LT will be improved with either Pears or Harris. Pears played better at LT two years ago as a rookie than Lepsis did this year. Pears was playing out of position this year and I believe putting him back on the left side you'll see alot of improvement in his play. The problem is this team doesn't seem to have a real RT. They need someone who can play against the power rush. That will do more to improve this line than anything else.

DT enough said.

I am not trying to disagree with you. However, do a comparison position by position on the OL between SB32 and today's team. How far away are we from that level of talent? Another question, how close to that level of talent do we need to be to win the Superbowl? These are the questions I ask myself when I evaluate the OL. The Superbowl is the goal and I don't think we are anywhere near the level needed to control the ball and keep the offenses of NE, Indy, SD off the field. We will lose Nalen in the next year. How far is Myers from Nalen's talent level in SB32.

[BroncoBuff]

Guys ... we've already done what you're asking! Hello?! We've already drafted up an O-Line, now give them time to develop. The last three drafts yielded Myers, Kuper and Harris, and Montrae Holland is a long-term rock. (BTW, why don't the UFA crybabies incl. Bowlen acknowledge Holland was a real UFA score?)

Sure, I'd love to draft a Joe Staley/Joe Thomas/Levi Jones dominant OT to replace Lepsis ... but remember the lessons of Leonard Davis and George Foster. And remember the biggest lesson of all: DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. Right now, Marcus Thomas is our only roster-lock DT, and Hamza is our only roster-lock safety under 34. Get your priorities straight. ;D



Knowitall

[Triplelefthook]

going along with the Schmitt thread elsewhere -

not only do we need O-line O-line O-line but in addition i think we need a full-fledged blocking FB to aid the power running game and red zone offense

[Beantown Bronco]

Guys ... we've already done what you're asking! Hello?! We've already drafted up an O-Line, now give them time to develop. The last three drafts yielded Myers, Kuper and Harris, and Montrae Holland is a long-term rock. (BTW, why don't the UFA crybabies incl. Bowlen acknowledge Holland was a real UFA score?)

That still leaves out right tackle. There are a few potential long term franchise right tackles in this draft that will be there in the mid to late first round. Why not jump on that?

Sure, I'd love to draft a Joe Staley/Joe Thomas/Levi Jones dominant OT to replace Lepsis ... but remember the lessons of Leonard Davis and George Foster.

You can't be afraid to draft a position based off of a few guys that didn't pan out. EVERY position has had busts for the Broncos. Would you simply not participate in the draft anymore because of that?

And remember the biggest lesson of all: DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. Right now, Marcus Thomas is our only roster-lock DT, and Hamza is our only roster-lock safety under 34. Get your priorities straight. ;D
Knowitall

DT and safety can be addressed better in FA this year than in the first round of this draft IMO. I'm not sold at all with the "talent" projected to go high this year.

And re: defense wins championships.....unless you have a ridiculous defense like the Ravens had when they won it all, your offense has to consistently put up more than 20 pts per game. The Broncos are not doing that now and the OLine is more than just partly to blame IMO.

[cmhargrove]

Guys ... we've already done what you're asking! Hello?! We've already drafted up an O-Line, now give them time to develop. The last three drafts yielded Myers, Kuper and Harris, and Montrae Holland is a long-term rock. (BTW, why don't the UFA crybabies incl. Bowlen acknowledge Holland was a real UFA score?)

Sure, I'd love to draft a Joe Staley/Joe Thomas/Levi Jones dominant OT to replace Lepsis ... but remember the lessons of Leonard Davis and George Foster. And remember the biggest lesson of all: DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. Right now, Marcus Thomas is our only roster-lock DT, and Hamza is our only roster-lock safety under 34. Get your priorities straight. ;D



Knowitall

BroncoBuff, I understand your perspective and acknowledge that many times O-linemen are second day draft picks. But, honestly - do you think our guys right now are Superbowl quality? Ever since the last game of the 2006 season when we played San Fran and couldn't punch it in 3 times inside the five, and missed the playoffs - it has been an embarrassment. I bet all those guys are trying as hard as they can, but they aren't plowing people over like we used to in Denver.

Watch the video again. The TD runs are straight up the gut. Nothing fancy, no trick plays. We just kicked their a$$e$ straight up. You can talk about development all you want, but I just don't even remember a single play (much less a drive) where I got that feeling over the past two seasons.

If you don't feel that needs to be addressed first, that's your opinion. However, don't say that you think the current line will just get better and manhandle the competition like our '97 and '98 team did. That just won't happen.

We need more talent, especially at Tackle. I think the interior has most of the talent we need.

[cmhargrove]

Guys ... we've already done what you're asking! Hello?! We've already drafted up an O-Line, now give them time to develop. The last three drafts yielded Myers, Kuper and Harris, and Montrae Holland is a long-term rock. (BTW, why don't the UFA crybabies incl. Bowlen acknowledge Holland was a real UFA score?)

Sure, I'd love to draft a Joe Staley/Joe Thomas/Levi Jones dominant OT to replace Lepsis ... but remember the lessons of Leonard Davis and George Foster. And remember the biggest lesson of all: DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. Right now, Marcus Thomas is our only roster-lock DT, and Hamza is our only roster-lock safety under 34. Get your priorities straight. ;D



Knowitall

I'm quoting this a second time to bring up our team the first half of the 2006 season when the offense was totally inept. We had what was an "historic" first half of the season defensively, but we couldn't score on offense. Our problems continued throughout 2006, and injuries hurt us in 2007.

Just look at all the stats from the beginning of this year. We were a top offense through the first half of the season, but couldn't score in the red zone. You can blame the play calls, or a new QB, but we just couldn't push anyone back into their own end zone. That cost us our season even more than the points and rushing yards we gave up. We had the opportunity to put most of those games away with better red zone scoring.

I say, until we get the bad boys that can straight up manhandle a defensive line, we need to keep looking. And, don't tell me we have anyone you really think is a Blue chip starter at O-Tackle. We just don't.

[BleedingOrange]

A couple of responses to various people.

1) Indy recently has had several 12 + win seasons but how many SBs? One and last year if Sanders doesn't come back and improve their run D it would be zero.

2) People talk like the offense didn't need any help to win SB 32. Funny thing is that against the Chiefs in the playoffs, it was the Defense stopping them on 4th down that let them advance. In the SB, with that awesome Oline, a HOF QB and TE, a RB and T that should get in, a WR that may get in, a WR and FB that played at a Probowl level, the play that saved the game was when Mobley knocked down a pass on 4th down. With all that talent on the offense, Favre still almost drove the field for a chance to tie/win.

Look at the Patriots, they've won 3 SBs based on being good at all three phases. I would rather have a good offensive and a solid defense, then an outstanding offense and a defense that can't stop anyone.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Guys ... we've already done what you're asking! Hello?! We've already drafted up an O-Line, now give them time to develop. The last three drafts yielded Myers, Kuper and Harris, and Montrae Holland is a long-term rock. (BTW, why don't the UFA crybabies incl. Bowlen acknowledge Holland was a real UFA score?)

Sure, I'd love to draft a Joe Staley/Joe Thomas/Levi Jones dominant OT to replace Lepsis ... but remember the lessons of Leonard Davis and George Foster. And remember the biggest lesson of all: DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. Right now, Marcus Thomas is our only roster-lock DT, and Hamza is our only roster-lock safety under 34. Get your priorities straight. ;D



Knowitall

There are 10 OTs in this draft better tha Jones or Staley. Get em while they are hot or never have the chance again.

[-Slap-]

There are 10 OTs in this draft better tha Jones or Staley. Get em while they are hot or never have the chance again.

I believe failing to secure an OT on day one this year would show a reckless disregard for the well being of the most important player in the organization.

I hope we focus on Gross, Adams or Wharten in free agency. Draft Clady @ 12 or trade down for an extra second rounder. I'm also good with going after a blue collar slugger guard like Roy Scheuning in round two.

Make a token day one nod at the defense, someone like DT Trevor Laws or LB Beau Bell, but keep the major focus on shoring up the offensive line.

[PRBronco]

A couple free agent signings that wouldn't totally break the bank and would go a long way towards solidfying both lines would be Sean Locklear at right tackle (or maybe that massive guy on the Steelers, Starks i think? he might be looking at left tackle money though). I was looking at a list of free agent D tackles today and noticed Isaac Sopoaga and Ethan Kelley are both UFAs (please inform me if they've been extended and my info is old!) either one of these guys would would be a biiiig upgrade as the tackle beside Thomas/McKinley/countless other mediocre under tackles on our roster. Certainly not super star signings, but easy upgrades I think.

Also I was reading in some other forums that cowboy fans were calling Marcus Spears their best run stopping end this year. Correct me if I'm wrong but that probably translates nicely in a 4-3 tackle, I'm still hoping for a trade of some kind there.

So there ya go, not exactly franchise players, but instant upgrades that arent' impossible to come by :)

[BroncoBuff]

There are 10 OTs in this draft better tha Jones or Staley. Get em while they are hot or never have the chance again.
That's a bold statement. If there really are 10 players with better than 2007 1st round talent, then we sure as hell can wait until Round 2 to draft one of them (see how overstatements kill the logic? ;D)

Actually, I would dearly love a franchise LT to replace Lepsis, but you made the supply and demand argument yourself: There's simply too many top-flight OTs to justify a 1st round pick at the position. Simple Milton Friedman cost-benefit analysis.

A defensive playmaker at #12 - Connor or Phillips if possible. Then how about the Baker kid from USC at 44? (43 after Pats lose the pick). He's super quick and agile like Lepsis, and his Dad is the Commissioner of the Arena League ^5


I'm also good with going after a blue collar slugger guard like Roy Scheuning in round two.
You're high ... we're freaking loaded inside. Four roster-lock guards as it is, plus Nalen. You do realize there are several other positions on the field that we might want to address in Round 2?

[BleedingOrange]

I am not trying to disagree with you. However, do a comparison position by position on the OL between SB32 and today's team. How far away are we from that level of talent? Another question, how close to that level of talent do we need to be to win the Superbowl? These are the questions I ask myself when I evaluate the OL. The Superbowl is the goal and I don't think we are anywhere near the level needed to control the ball and keep the offenses of NE, Indy, SD off the field. We will lose Nalen in the next year. How far is Myers from Nalen's talent level in SB32.

Right now I can't compare the two for this coming year because I have no idea how much growth the younger players are going to have. Harris may start and I haven't seen him play. He may be a future hof player or a bust.

I can compare last years line with the SB line, but that would be ugly.

Center: I think that if Nalen comes back and plays at his usual level this year we'll have improved quite a bit. He will also help our guards look better. Meyers and Hamilton back him up and I don't expect Hamilton to be on the team at the start of the season due to his concussion (I hope he surprises me). This will leave Meyers as the Center for 2009 if Nalen hangs them up and we should see a center drafted ths year. It would depend on the progress of Meyers this off season on how high of a priority this is.

Guard: This should be a battle in training camp. I think that Kuper and Holland with Nalen at center are good enough to get us to a SB. This assumes (very dangerous I know) some minor improvement due to experience and continuity. Meyers and Hamilton will also be trying to fill these positions. If Meyers or Hamilton do make the starting line-up it would give us experienced back-ups. I don't think Hamilton will be with the team unless he does make the starting lineup.

Left Tackle: I think that with the type of lineman we use that this is an easier position to fill than RT. I think Pears can play well here (played well two years ago and now has more experience) and may surprise some people. We also have Harris who sounds like he may be ready to take this slot. I think with either we should have solid play. We may get better than that, but I believe it will be improved from this year.

Right Tackle: I would like to see a free agent brought in to fill this slot. I think a high quality player here will improve the Oline more than any other slot. We need someone who can move the power ends and still be quick enough to reach the second level. We may end up with Pears or Harris here (and they could surprise me), but I don't see them playing as well on this side.

We moved the ball well this year with all the problems on the line and with a few of our skill players injured. I think if the team stays healty and with the growth of our younger players that this offense can get back into the top 5. I also think that if we don't improve the Dline a little, it won't matter because we won't see the SB until we do.

[-Slap-]

You're high ... we're freaking loaded inside. Four roster-lock guards as it is, plus Nalen. You do realize there are several other positions on the field that we might want to address in Round 2?

Apparently you're too busy posting gibberish to watch the games. Those great interior linemen you're boasting about - including the ghost of Tom Nalen and broken down Ben Hamilton - routinely get their **** pushed down on the goalline or in any short yardage situation. It's been that way for years now.

Ever wonder why so many defensive tackles have career days against us? That fat lazy sack of **** Shaun Rogers became a cult hero on this stupid board on the strength of the one man prison rape he put on those stellar guards we have on our roster.

[BroncoBuff]

Sh** pushed in? Prison rape? What's with you and the gay stuff lately?

Look, we could get better players at EVERY position except LCB ... but that doesn't mean we're gonna overlook the real glaring needs (DT, OT, S) just to add more bodies at guard ... it just doesn't happen that way. What makes you think more bodies at guard would be better than what we have? No, NFL roster management IS a zero-sum game: the sum is 53. And for better or worse, we have our guards on the roster now.

[-Slap-]

Sh** pushed in? Prison rape? What's with you and the gay stuff lately?

What's with you asking me if I'm high? Aren't you a person with a history of hard drug abuse?

Or maybe none of the **** we say on here matters, unless you decide to make it matter.

Look, we could get better players at EVERY position except LCB. But that doesn't mean we're gonna overlook the real glaring needs (DT, OT, S) just to add more bodies at guard ... it just doesn't happen that way. What makes you think more bodies at guard would be better than what we have? No, NFL roster management IS a zero-sum game: the sum is 53. And for better or worse, we have our guards on the roster now.

Because what we have are broken down old men and puffed up marginal talents that are too small to compete.

Enjoy your finesse football, with Ian Gold and our collection of tiny offensive linemen. It's a proven failure that you obviously enjoy watching.

[BroncoBuff]

Do I have a "history of hard drug abuse"? Why yes, yes I do. But I never did get high enough to draft a guard in the 2nd round for this roster ... and I think I made it clear in the Ian Gold thread that I joined in all the criticism of him. It's just pretty clear that the professionals at Dove Valley disagree with us.

Fine, you want a guard in the 2nd round, that's cool. You have a very good track record imo.





BTW - what makes you think Nalen is a "broken down" old man? A biceps tear is not a wear-down injury ... and before the concussion, Hamilton hadn't missed a snap in five freaking years. He's only 30, you know.

[BroncoBuff]

I hate when we fight ... ::)

[CHANGSTER]

Break it down this way.
2 tackles on the roster
1 is below average. 1 hasn't played a down.

Up until recently I would of put DT at the top of the need list, now I believe the team is royally screwed if they don't seriously address OT.
Teams with below average Tackles just aren't competitive.

If that doesn't convince you just think back to the last game against SD.
Done? k I think now everyone agrees OT is a huge need.

[Beantown Bronco]

A defensive playmaker at #12 - Connor or Phillips if possible.

I thought we already destroyed the "Phillips is a playmaker" myth a few days ago. In his entire college career, he's made as many big plays as the last few consensus #1 safeties have in a few games. Not worth it at 12, or anywhere in the first round, IMO.

Same with Connor IMO. If you value high tackle numbers and view that statistic as the one that makes a LB a playmaker, then sure, he is it. But in reality, tackles have little to do with "playmaking".

[TheReverend]

Apparently you're too busy posting gibberish to watch the games. Those great interior linemen you're boasting about - including the ghost of Tom Nalen and broken down Ben Hamilton - routinely get their **** pushed down on the goalline or in any short yardage situation. It's been that way for years now.

Ever wonder why so many defensive tackles have career days against us? That fat lazy sack of **** Shaun Rogers became a cult hero on this stupid board on the strength of the one man prison rape he put on those stellar guards we have on our roster.

I think being conservative you can assume one of Nalen or Hamilton will still be able to play effectively. That alone vastly improves the offensive line.

Whether we address it via FA or Day one of the draft, I'm very on board on getting another OT, though.

LB is still my TOP priority. Not that anyone cares.

[TheReverend]

I thought we already destroyed the "Phillips is a playmaker" myth a few days ago. In his entire college career, he's made as many big plays as the last few consensus #1 safeties have in a few games. Not worth it at 12, or anywhere in the first round, IMO.

Same with Connor IMO. If you value high tackle numbers and view that statistic as the one that makes a LB a playmaker, then sure, he is it. But in reality, tackles have little to do with "playmaking".

Dan Connor, Penn State
Height: 6-2. Weight: 233.
40 Time: 4.58.
Projected Round: Top 20 Pick.
1. DAN CONNOR, 6-3, 230, Penn State

From the first practice, Connor jumped out as a tremendous middle linebacker with range, the ability to key and diagnose, with all the instincts required to be a great player. When a guy posts 410 tackles in a college career, sometimes you wonder if maybe his stats were padded, that maybe he was getting credit for every time he got to a pile. But that's not the case with Connor. He lines up the defense and meets all of the running backs at the line of scrimmage. It's great to see his pass drops, which he performs with smoothness and an eye on the route progressions. On one play he's holding off the deep middle, and on the next he's colliding a slant route. When the linebackers this week went to their blitz period against the running backs, he made an even bigger impression when he made three different backs simply miss him when he rushed. On two other occasions he won with a bull rush and came back with a spin move to get to the QB. "Connor could play in any scheme, 4-3 or 3-4, and excel as a rookie

[Beantown Bronco]

Dan Connor, Penn State
Height: 6-2. Weight: 233.
40 Time: 4.58.
Projected Round: Top 20 Pick.
1. DAN CONNOR, 6-3, 230, Penn State

From the first practice, Connor jumped out as a tremendous middle linebacker with range, the ability to key and diagnose, with all the instincts required to be a great player. When a guy posts 410 tackles in a college career, sometimes you wonder if maybe his stats were padded, that maybe he was getting credit for every time he got to a pile. But that's not the case with Connor. He lines up the defense and meets all of the running backs at the line of scrimmage. It's great to see his pass drops, which he performs with smoothness and an eye on the route progressions. On one play he's holding off the deep middle, and on the next he's colliding a slant route. When the linebackers this week went to their blitz period against the running backs, he made an even bigger impression when he made three different backs simply miss him when he rushed. On two other occasions he won with a bull rush and came back with a spin move to get to the QB. "Connor could play in any scheme, 4-3 or 3-4, and excel as a rookie

Yup, that's one guy's opinion.

He has been picked apart so much at this point that I have seen and can pull up just as many reports that question his play-makiing ability. Look, I know the guy has a first round grade. I just don't think he'd be worth the #12 pick, especially playing behind the Broncos line.

[TheReverend]

Yup, that's one guy's opinion.

He has been picked apart so much at this point that I have seen and can pull up just as many reports that question his play-makiing ability. Look, I know the guy has a first round grade. I just don't think he'd be worth the #12 pick, especially playing behind the Broncos line.

Everyone's certainly entitled to their opinion but I would love to see the reports that question his play-making ability and if they have any shred of grounding in reality.

[s0phr0syne]

I was looking at a list of free agent D tackles today and noticed Isaac Sopoaga and Ethan Kelley are both UFAs (please inform me if they've been extended and my info is old!) either one of these guys would would be a biiiig upgrade as the tackle beside Thomas/McKinley/countless other mediocre under tackles on our roster. Certainly not super star signings, but easy upgrades I think.





I feel a bit bad for saying this, but I have no idea who either Sopoaga or Kelley are.

Regardless of my ignorance, this is exactly the kind of players I think we should be looking for in FA. I think what we do in FA will really shape the way we draft. Some people have argued that LB in the 1st is pointless behind our current D-line, but if we make a couple of solid (not $omgAmazingleet$) signings at DT and include the return of Ebenezer, an MLB like Connor sounds good. If we can get someone like Locklear at OT, we've at least addressed the depth and could look at OT in the 2nd instead of being forced into it in the 1st.

Bottom line, I think it'd be great to talk more about players like this rather than discussing the big name guys that we'd have to break the bank for. FA could be amazing if Shanny and Sundquist are diligent enough to get us the right depth.

[cmhargrove]

I feel a bit bad for saying this, but I have no idea who either Sopoaga or Kelley are.

Regardless of my ignorance, this is exactly the kind of players I think we should be looking for in FA. I think what we do in FA will really shape the way we draft. Some people have argued that LB in the 1st is pointless behind our current D-line, but if we make a couple of solid (not $omgAmazingleet$) signings at DT and include the return of Ebenezer, an MLB like Connor sounds good. If we can get someone like Locklear at OT, we've at least addressed the depth and could look at OT in the 2nd instead of being forced into it in the 1st.

Bottom line, I think it'd be great to talk more about players like this rather than discussing the big name guys that we'd have to break the bank for. FA could be amazing if Shanny and Sundquist are diligent enough to get us the right depth.

If Ellis dropped to us in round 1, I say take him. Otherwise, we should either take the best OT on the board, or trade down and get our third rounder back. Then, we can still get a decent OT at the end of round 1, and the third rounder would help significantly.

You're right, we do need a mix, but my priority is about scoring. That means the O-line. I think the defense will be middle of the road (or slightly better) even with last year's personnel and the scheme of two years ago.

[BleedingOrange]

It appears that some people have already decided that a few of our Olineman have reached their peak and can't possibly improve any before two have started for their 2nd season and one his third. Players tend to improve for their first three years (some positions/players the improvements are more dramatic). Look at the difference Mario Williams made from year one to two. We may not have anyone with that type of jump, but some improvement isn't unreasonable.

The coaches have a pretty good idea of the physical caps a player has, but not the effort and drive. They get to see the effort the player puts in and progress they are making in practice. This allows them to better evaluate them than people who watch them play one game a week. I'm sure the coaches are taking a good look at what they have and will make a decision on where their needs are.

[Merlin]

Just watch the highlight film. For those who don't want us to seek out the best offensive linemen we can buy, steal, or draft, just watch the video again. Everyone is stuck on a Packer - and the Packers are moving backwards. The goal line work just makes you want to cry. All the receivers are blocking (which I think they still do), but we really miss Howard Griffith. He was a special player for us.
Not that I disagree with you about that line, but if the goal line shot you are referring to is the last one, GB decided not to play hard D on that play. They figured they had a better chance of winning if the got the ball back quickly, rather than let Denver eat up the clock and then "allowing" them to score.

[cmhargrove]

Not that I disagree with you about that line, but if the goal line shot you are referring to is the last one, GB decided not to play hard D on that play. They figured they had a better chance of winning if the got the ball back quickly, rather than let Denver eat up the clock and then "allowing" them to score.

Methinks you are majoring in minors...

I have heard the supposed point that they were going to "allow" us the late TD, but do you think they had a choice? TD ended up with three TD's from goal to go situations. They sure didn't decide to "give" us all of those scores, we took them.

Watch all the other plays as TD runs across the screen, everyone is stuck on their blocks. And, when the O-line hits someone, it pushes them out of the way, or backwards. Ahhh, the good old days...

[snowtrx]

Has the size to protect Cutler while possesing the athleticism to pull, get to second level, and handle the speed rushers. Plus he is a quite guy who rarely speaks to the media. Sounds like a perfect match with our Broncos.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________

Draft profile: OT Ryan Clady
Do your job and don't get noticed.

Isn't that what we want from our franchise offensive tackles?

Boise State's Ryan Clady (6 feet 6, 317 pounds) is hoping to be just that. He decided to skip his senior season with the Broncos and is expected to be a first-round pick.

Can't remember having ever seen Clady in action? Think back to the 2007 Fiesta Bowl between Boise State and Oklahoma, a game that delivered one of the greatest endings in recent memory. With Boise State trailing, 42-41, the Broncos ran the Statue of Liberty as quarterback Jared Zabransky handed the ball behind his back to Ian Johnson who scampered into the end zone for a two-point conversion. Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzW3ILnA-O4&eurl=http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/blog/2008/01/draft_profile_ot_ryan_clady_1.html


Now check out Clady, No. 79. Sure, it wasn't a monster block, and nobody who watches this highlight will really notice him, but Clady helped seal off Oklahoma defenders as Johnson went in for the score.

To help get a better handle on what kind of player Clady is, I called on Brian Murphy, who has been a sports columnist for the Idaho Statesman since 2005. He co-authored a book -- Blue Magic: Boise State’s inspiring journey to a Fiesta Bowl win -- on the Broncos’ unbeaten 2006 season.

Q: What are Clady's strengths as an offensive lineman?

A: At 6-foot-6 and 317 pounds, Clady certainly has the size to play tackle in the NFL. But what impresses scouts the most are his footwork and athleticism at that size. At Boise State, he often pulled or blocked out in front of screens, showing remarkable agility for a man his size.

Q: What gave him trouble in college and might be something he needs to improve on at the next level?

A: Not too many players were able to give him trouble in college, especially in the Western Athletic Conference. He probably had a better sophomore season than junior campaign. He was beaten at a couple crucial times during his junior season against the highest-level competition. Such lapses were few and far between, however. No doubt at the professional level, Clady will have to improve his strength.

Q: What kind of offense does Boise State run? Describe Clady's performance in pass-blocking compared to run-blocking.

A: Boise State runs a very complex, diverse and balanced offense. It’s one that should prepare him well for the NFL. Clady was solid in the run game and the pass game. He might be a better run blocker than pass blocker at this point. Clady played defensive line in high school. So he should continue to get better at offensive line as he accumulates more experience.

Q: What can you tell us about Clady off the field? What was his relationship like with teammates, the media and the coaching staff?

A: Clady is a very quiet guy. Teammates joke that he hasn’t said more than two words to them. Clady definitely got more comfortable during his time at Boise State. Teammates say he can be funny and engaging, but he rarely spoke with the media. During several one-on-one interviews, Clady opened up and, though soft-spoken, is engaging. His mother passed away when he was young and he was raised by his father and extended family.

Q: What went into Clady's decision go skip his senior season?

A: I’m not sure what was left for Clady to accomplish at Boise State. Having won the Fiesta Bowl as a sophomore and garnered a closet full of individual honors, Clady didn’t have much more to gain on the team or individual level. It’s hard to imagine his stock getting any higher. And Clady expressed a desire to take care of his younger siblings — he has three of them. First-round money will help with that.

Q: Did Clady have a signature moment as a college player? If so, what was it?

A: Clady caught a pass for a touchdown in a blowout victory during his junior season. He flipped the ball, LaDainian Tomlinson-style, and then jumped into the crowd, Lambeau Leap style. His teammates mobbed him. That the play was called back because of a penalty didn’t seem to matter.

But the play he will forever be associated with at Boise State is the Statue of Liberty 2-point conversion that gave the Broncos an overtime victory against Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl. It was Clady -- along with tight end Derek Schouman (now with the Buffalo Bills) -- who sealed off the left side of the line allowing Ian Johnson to run in untouched for the game-winning score.


ESPN.com's Mel Kiper Jr. has Clady ranked as the No. 9 player overall:

An excellent left tackle prospect with athletic ability and solid technique that will make him a great blindside protector in the NFL.

In his most recent mock draft, Kiper has Clady being selected at No. 12 by the Denver Broncos.

Clady was named a first-team All-American by the AFCA and Sporting News.

[SleepingTiger]

Just watched a highlight video of TD in SB32. I loved TD. TD and Elway are my favorite Broncos ever. However....

Just watch the highlight film. For those who don't want us to seek out the best offensive linemen we can buy, steal, or draft, just watch the video again. Everyone is stuck on a Packer - and the Packers are moving backwards. The goal line work just makes you want to cry. All the receivers are blocking (which I think they still do), but we really miss Howard Griffith. He was a special player for us.

I will take people that fall to us, and i would love to draft Ellis. But honestly, the Broncos have been and should be an offensive juggernaut first. I will wait a year or two to find our defense. Let's fix the offensive line first.

Try this link first:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d805e920d

If it doesn't work, go here and look for the TD MVP video:
http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/cadillac#

Here is some highlight for you

142yds/game rushing defense (30th)
4.6yds/carries against (31st)
119 rushes allowed for 1st down (29th)
25.6 pts/game allowed (28th)
31:18 ToP/game on defense (26th)
20+ yds 18 (32nd)
14 rushing tds/game (23)
501 carries against (29th)

and you guys wanna draft oline???
will Cutler ever get on the field? will our RB's ever get more than 20 carries/game because we are alway coming from behind!
you want to protect Cutler by keeping him off the field is that correct?
I want to win football games, even if it means our offense has to suffer.

im sick and tired of picking up leftovers on DL. can we draft someone that will be a factor for the next decade. no more IHOP, retreads and over the hill lards.

[rmsanger]

I think this thread is looking at it the wrong way. We all know that we need to improve on both sides of the ball at line. What we need is a fundamental change in our draft strategy toward dedication of improving the trenches.

So regardless of the order of OL vs. DL taken we also know that we are about 3-4 drafts away from being a top tier team. This will be in time for JC to hit his prime.