Why We Fight

[Taco John]

This is a great, and I'd argue well balanced documentary... One of the best documentaries that examines the last 60 years of American militarism.

This is well worth the watch...

Why We Fight (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3405669348838274375&q=Why+we+fight&total=37421&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1)

[Meck77]

I'm half way through this video and I can't stop thinking "Vote Ron Paul" before the next "Blow Back" happens.

Minute 42 is interesting. It discusses how in 1992 the government proposed partnering with private companies to arm the industrial military complex.

It's interesting. 14 years later the government gave themselves the power to partner up with private developers to take land from American citizens for profit. Kelo vs New London.

Watch out for your land folks. The industrial land grabbing complex is just getting underway. Add in a recession and the government is going to justify taking more land to make up budget deficits. That is what is happening to people in Denver.

[Taco John]

I'm half way through this video and I can't stop thinking "Vote Ron Paul" before the next "Blow Back" happens.

Minute 42 is interesting. It discusses how in 1992 the government proposed partnering with private companies to arm the industrial military complex.

It's interesting. 14 years later the government gave themselves the power to partner up with private developers to take land from American citizens for profit. Kelo vs New London.

Watch out for your land folks. The industrial land grabbing complex is just getting underway. Add in a recession and the government is going to justify taking more land to make up budget deficits. That is what is happening to people in Denver.



Did you hear about the Boston to Florida Super Corridor that Huckabee proposed in the last presidential debate? They're calling it The Huckabee Highway (http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/01/25/the-huckabee-highway/). Can you imagine how much land they'd need to confiscate for such a project? Worse, how much money would have to come out of all of our pockets to complete this massive highway that only people on the East Coast would use?

[cutthemdown]

Did you hear about the Boston to Florida Super Corridor that Huckabee proposed in the last presidential debate? They're calling it The Huckabee Highway (http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/01/25/the-huckabee-highway/). Can you imagine how much land they'd need to confiscate for such a project? Worse, how much money would have to come out of all of our pockets to complete this massive highway that only people on the East Coast would use?

I think as a west coast person I could go along with infrastructure rebuilding all over the country in the congested areas. I haven't read about this huckabee highway but I know the whole USA of America need to build new roads, bridges, high speed trains, etc etc etc. We have to be able to move around about another 100 million people sooner then you all think. The country is growing!!.

The eminent domain issue is another sticky one to figure out. You need it because sometimes it really is in the interest of society the govt get that land. The problem is like anything it gets corrupted and used for financial gain of the few, instead for the overall good of a community. School, airports, freeways, military installations, power plants etc etc yes, but when someone loses there land so some big company can build a walmart or a mall that is just wrong.

[Cito Pelon]

I think as a west coast person I could go along with infrastructure rebuilding all over the country in the congested areas. I haven't read about this huckabee highway but I know the whole USA of America need to build new roads, bridges, high speed trains, etc etc etc. We have to be able to move around about another 100 million people sooner then you all think. The country is growing!!.

The eminent domain issue is another sticky one to figure out. You need it because sometimes it really is in the interest of society the govt get that land. The problem is like anything it gets corrupted and used for financial gain of the few, instead for the overall good of a community. School, airports, freeways, military installations, power plants etc etc yes, but when someone loses there land so some big company can build a walmart or a mall that is just wrong.

There always has been huge tension between citizens and government. To me the big deal is an independent Judiciary Branch, free of political connections. Lately it seems this is a battleground in politics.

The country is growing!!.

That's a big deal. The more people you have to deal with, the more tensions there are. The pie is only so big, divvying it up gets to be more and more problematic when it has to be divided into smaller shares. There's always been this tension, but it's most certainly more pronounced now the US population is at 300 million.

People get edgy, scared of losing their share. I am.

[Bronco Bob]

Did you hear about the Boston to Florida Super Corridor that Huckabee proposed in the last presidential debate? They're calling it The Huckabee Highway (http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/01/25/the-huckabee-highway/). Can you imagine how much land they'd need to confiscate for such a project? Worse, how much money would have to come out of all of our pockets to complete this massive highway that only people on the East Coast would use?

The part I like about it is the money will be spent in the USA. As it stands
now the tax give-away that Bush and the Congress are proposing will
just most likely be spent on goods made in China. So we are borrowing
money from China to buy goods made in China. A double whammy.
With Huckabee's plan the money would go to pay construction workers
and cement suppliers and to buy heavy equipment. So this would
put Americans to work, not just the people working on the roads,
but the people who make the road building material and the people
who make the heavy equipment to build the roads. And it will
save money on time and gas in the long run because people won't be
stalled in traffic, another boost to the economy.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I only made it as far as the part where McCain starts repeating the PNAC mantra and I had to turn it off before I threw up!

[TailgateNut]

The part I like about it is the money will be spent in the USA. As it stands
now the tax give-away that Bush and the Congress are proposing will
just most likely be spent on goods made in China. So we are borrowing
money from China to buy goods made in China. A double whammy.
With Huckabee's plan the money would go to pay construction workers
and cement suppliers and to buy heavy equipment. So this would
put Americans to work, not just the people working on the roads,
but the people who make the road building material and the people
who make the heavy equipment to build the roads. And it will
save money on time and gas in the long run because people won't be
stalled in traffic, another boost to the economy.


....and they would scurry off to WalMart to buy Chinese goods with their earnings. Until we place tariffs on imported mtls we will always fill the pockets of Chinese with mucho dinero!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

....and they would scurry off to WalMart to buy Chinese goods with their earnings. Until we place tariffs on imported mtls we will always fill the pockets of Chinese with mucho dinero!

It's quite the ponzi scheme Greenspan created, isn't it?

We keep filling their coffers with dollars that are backed by nothing but thin air, and they keep purchasing a greater and greater percentage of our debt.

[TailgateNut]

, and they keep purchasing a greater and greater percentage of our debt.

didn't you mean to say "percentage of our COUNTRY"?

Soon when you make calls the recording will prompt you: "Press 1 to continue in spanish, press 2 to continue in chinese, press 3 if you are on of the few who want to continue in english".

[Meck77]

The part I like about it is the money will be spent in the USA. As it stands
now the tax give-away that Bush and the Congress are proposing will
just most likely be spent on goods made in China. So we are borrowing
money from China to buy goods made in China. A double whammy.
With Huckabee's plan the money would go to pay construction workers
and cement suppliers and to buy heavy equipment. So this would
put Americans to work, not just the people working on the roads,
but the people who make the road building material and the people
who make the heavy equipment to build the roads. And it will
save money on time and gas in the long run because people won't be
stalled in traffic, another boost to the economy.

Oh hell yeah! That's what those people need! A land grab from Maine to Miami! Nothing like the good ole government condemning more land they need from private land owners so they can line their pockets with development at all the interchanges/exits along the way. That is what will happen and it's currently happening all over this country under the disguise of "Economic redevelopment and Urban Renewal".

If you see your city council or local politician start talking about that watch out because your land could be a target.

[Bronco Bob]

Oh hell yeah! That's what those people need! A land grab from Maine to Miami! Nothing like the good ole government condemning more land they need from private land owners so they can line their pockets with development at all the interchanges/exits along the way. That is what will happen and it's currently happening all over this country under the disguise of "Economic redevelopment and Urban Renewal".

If you see your city council or local politician start talking about that watch out because your land could be a target.

Actually the road is already there. All Huckabee is proposing is adding two
additional lanes to the already existing highway. Most highways already
have additional land on either side of them that is a buffer zone, and
this could be used to widen the highway.

[Meck77]

Actually the road is already there. All Huckabee is proposing is adding two
additional lanes to the already existing highway. Most highways already
have additional land on either side of them that is a buffer zone, and
this could be used to widen the highway.

Yup they have the extra land because they grabbed more than they probably needed in the first place. I've met a number of ranchers recently who lost land to the E-470 project around Denver. 470 like I-95 has plenty of room to grow. They conveniently took 5 acres around each side of the interchanges. 5 ACRES!

Nothing sits on those corners just yet but there is a beautiful highway, nice bridge. The highway authority now owns the prime corners that the rancher once did. Just a matter of time before the highway authority proceeds with some "Highway authority public/private partnership". They'll will pitch the project as a "good way" to pay down tax payer debt on the project.

Bob it's a side of real estate most people don't know exists or even bother to pay attention to.

Here is how you can get in on this Bob. All you have to do is get yourself elected to a city council or powerful Transit board and do a little eminent domain work. It's tricky because sometimes people scream out as their land is being taken but more often than not people roll over. When they do you hand the land over to your buddies development company and they make millions and kick some cash back to you!

It's the new America! The American dream is happening all over this country now! People are getting rich! Forget having to buy land anymore just take it!

Bottom line is this. You put money hungry people in power and they will take advantage of others under the law and power given to them. It's human nature to be greedy. What's funny is these people try to justify to you that they can develop your land better than the landowners.

I've had more than a dozen or so government people around here tell me that already . One local politician I'm dealing with even said "Your corner doesn't need a Broncos bar, I think it should be gas station as I live in the area and we need a better one".


Anyway...

[TailgateNut]

Actually the road is already there. All Huckabee is proposing is adding two
additional lanes to the already existing highway. Most highways already
have additional land on either side of them that is a buffer zone, and
this could be used to widen the highway.


Which road is this? Route 17 on I-95?

[Bronco Bob]

Which road is this? Route 17 on I-95?

Yes, I-95.

[TailgateNut]

Yes, I-95.


What's the estimated price tag on this IDEA. Does our current numbering system go that high?

[Bronco Bob]

What's the estimated price tag on this IDEA. Does our current numbering system go that high?

What's the current estimate on the Bush economic stimulus package?

[TailgateNut]

Actually the road is already there. All Huckabee is proposing is adding two
additional lanes to the already existing highway. Most highways already
have additional land on either side of them that is a buffer zone, and
this could be used to widen the highway.

This is usually not an issue in rural areas, but in populated urban type areas it can pose a REAL PROBLEM.

See TRex!

[Spider]

State of Texas has a brand new plan ....a super highway they will call it Highway 69 super corridor from north to south texas , Lanes for cars only and big trucks only .....alot of truckers already getting wood over this , anything that seprates us from 4 wheelers has to be a damn good Idea ......

[Spider]

Texas is building as few of these NAFTA highways , they want them from Canada to Mexico ..... 4 football fields wide ...... huge mo fos

[Beantown Bronco]

Actually the road is already there. All Huckabee is proposing is adding two
additional lanes to the already existing highway. Most highways already
have additional land on either side of them that is a buffer zone, and
this could be used to widen the highway.

Very unnecessary IMO. I've done the drive from Mass to central FL before and stayed on 95 the whole way. No problems. All you have to do is plan around maybe one rush hour and you're good to go.

Not to mention....an extra lane or two would make zero difference there, except perhaps encourage more drivers, more pollution, and less reliance on Amtrak. In times where we are encouraging the masses to abandon their cars and take more public transportation whenever possible, this one sounds like a real winner. :oyvey:

[TailgateNut]

Very unnecessary IMO. I've done the drive from Mass to central FL before and stayed on 95 the whole way. No problems. All you have to do is plan around maybe one rush hour and you're good to go.

Not to mention....an extra lane or two would make zero difference there, except perhaps encourage more drivers, more pollution, and less reliance on Amtrak. In times where we are encouraging the masses to abandon their cars and take more public transportation whenever possible, this one sounds like a real winner. :oyvey:



Just gotta plan for the Beltway. It can be a Bitch!

[Spider]

Very unnecessary IMO. I've done the drive from Mass to central FL before and stayed on 95 the whole way. No problems. All you have to do is plan around maybe one rush hour and you're good to go.

Not to mention....an extra lane or two would make zero difference there, except perhaps encourage more drivers, more pollution, and less reliance on Amtrak. In times where we are encouraging the masses to abandon their cars and take more public transportation whenever possible, this one sounds like a real winner. :oyvey:

Huh ?
you are overlooking alot of things ....... Congestion , cars idling in 1 area cause more pollution , not to mention the saftey factor ....... less congestion = less accidents ,and when something does happen yo uhave more room to work with .... and I dont even want ot talk about the beltway ......

[Spider]

Just gotta plan for the Beltway. It can be a b****!

try it in a 18 wheeler .....

[Meck77]

Texas is building as few of these NAFTA highways , they want them from Canada to Mexico ..... 4 football fields wide ...... huge mo fos

Yup...saw a clip about that on the mane. I think Taco dug it up. They plan a major hub in KC. Should be a great opportunity for some land grabbing with that gig.

Just another step towards the unification of Mexico,US, Canada. I wonder if our national beer will be Budweiser? Tecate? Or Molson. Oh wait Coors bought Molsen nevermind eh?

Damn now I sound like a Canandian. Wait is English even our native language now or do I have to learn Spanish now? I'm sure there are some bills in congress to change it.

[Beantown Bronco]

Huh ?
you are overlooking alot of things ....... Congestion , cars idling in 1 area cause more pollution , not to mention the saftey factor ....... less congestion = less accidents ,and when something does happen yo uhave more room to work with .... and I dont even want ot talk about the beltway ......

Not overlooking....just discounting the supposed "benefit." IMO, the costs of these types of projects far outweigh these potential benefits.

[Spider]

Not overlooking....just discounting the supposed "benefit." IMO, the costs of these types of projects far outweigh these potential benefits.

we will see

[Spider]

Yup...saw a clip about that on the mane. I think Taco dug it up. They plan a major hub in KC. Should be a great opportunity for some land grabbing with that gig.

Just another step towards the unification of Mexico,US, Canada. I wonder if our national beer will be Budweiser? Tecate? Or Molson. Oh wait Coors bought Molsen nevermind eh?

Damn now I sound like a Canandian. Wait is English even our native language now or do I have to learn Spanish now? I'm sure there are some bills in congress to change it.
are you saying we will stop being america ? Canada will stop being Candian ? Mexico will stop being Mexico ?
how come there is still a England , fance , Germany ?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

didn't you mean to say "percentage of our COUNTRY"?

Soon when you make calls the recording will prompt you: "Press 1 to continue in spanish, press 2 to continue in chinese, press 3 if you are on of the few who want to continue in english".

Yep.

And it's amazing how there are people here who still defend Bush in spite of his role in accelerating this agenda over the last seven years.

[cutthemdown]

State of Texas has a brand new plan ....a super highway they will call it Highway 69 super corridor from north to south texas , Lanes for cars only and big trucks only .....alot of truckers already getting wood over this , anything that seprates us from 4 wheelers has to be a damn good Idea ......

I agree that its a good idea to separate the commercial big wheelers from mom and pops Honda as much as possible. Obviously we can't build those type of highways everywhere but in some places it's probably really smart. For one if the truckers can make better time etc that's just better all around for the economy. If regular cars can make it to work faster or not get crushed by a huge truck that's also all good. The only thing bad is all the money it costs. At this point though I don't think we can overlook our nations highways any longer.

We simply are adding vehicles at a faster rate then we expand the roads. At some point the whole thing will become gridlock unless we start spending some dough on it.

[enjolras]

We simply are adding vehicles at a faster rate then we expand the roads. At some point the whole thing will become gridlock unless we start spending some dough on it.

Totally agree, but I question whether building more roads the answer tho? There are alternatives. To me the problems isn't infrastructure, but culture. Our biggest issue is the complete lack of density in American cities. We push and push out, chasing the bigger house while constantly extending the mileage to work.

Instead of feeding that consumption, we need a big group rethink about our cities. I live in Downtown Denver. I walk to work. I walk to the grocery store. I walk to dinner. When I need to take a longer trip, I walk to the train. It's a lifestyle that has a minimal carbon footprint, and most importantly gets me off the roads. While it's impractical to expect that we can have 2 million people all within walking distance of everything, we can certainly stand to bring everyone in closer.

But that's the problem. As a group we're all to happy to take our big SUV out to Broomfield (or hell Longmont at this point) and spend 45 minutes each way commuting to our job actually IN the city. We have severe cultural baggage that tells us that having a family means flocking to the 'safe' suburbs where we attempt to buy the biggest house possible with the biggest garage to park the biggest car we can afford.

I believe the answer is investing in more mass transit (HUGE props to Denver for the FastTracks stuff)... but more importantly by investing in the infrastructure of our CENTER CITIES. In the hope that eventually the pain of that commute begins to drive increased densities, which makes the management of these problems much easier for us as a people to handle.

Otherwise, we'll be continuing to have this conversation for years and years to come. Our current pattern suburban sprawl is simply intractable and will continue to outpace our ability to build roads to support it.

[Spider]

I agree that its a good idea to separate the commercial big wheelers from mom and pops Honda as much as possible. Obviously we can't build those type of highways everywhere but in some places it's probably really smart. For one if the truckers can make better time etc that's just better all around for the economy. If regular cars can make it to work faster or not get crushed by a huge truck that's also all good. The only thing bad is all the money it costs. At this point though I don't think we can overlook our nations highways any longer.

We simply are adding vehicles at a faster rate then we expand the roads. At some point the whole thing will become gridlock unless we start spending some dough on it.
Pretty much spot on , as our population grows , so does the demand of shipping ......

[Spider]

Totally agree, but I question whether building more roads the answer tho? it has to be ,as the population grows so does demands , food , clothes , Jobs , all of these needs are centered around shipping , if you eat it , wear it , use it , it was shipped to you



There are alternatives. To me the problems isn't infrastructure, but culture. Our biggest issue is the complete lack of density in American cities. We push and push out, chasing the bigger house while constantly extending the mileage to work. Living in the city like you do is great for a single guy , but a family needs room to grow , kids need activities .......

Instead of feeding that consumption, we need a big group rethink about our cities. I live in Downtown Denver. I walk to work. I walk to the grocery store. I walk to dinner. When I need to take a longer trip, I walk to the train. It's a lifestyle that has a minimal carbon footprint, and most importantly gets me off the roads. While it's impractical to expect that we can have 2 million people all within walking distance of everything, we can certainly stand to bring everyone in closer. again thats fine for a guy without a family , kids will do some of the stupidest things yo ucan imagine , no need for them to do these things in the streets of a city

But that's the problem. As a group we're all to happy to take our big SUV out to Broomfield (or hell Longmont at this point) and spend 45 minutes each way commuting to our job actually IN the city. We have severe cultural baggage that tells us that having a family means flocking to the 'safe' suburbs where we attempt to buy the biggest house possible with the biggest garage to park the biggest car we can afford. so moving to a safe area to raise a family is a bad thing ?

I believe the answer is investing in more mass transit (HUGE props to Denver for the FastTracks stuff)... but more importantly by investing in the infrastructure of our CENTER CITIES. In the hope that eventually the pain of that commute begins to drive increased densities, which makes the management of these problems much easier for us as a people to handle. Mas transit is a good thing , as long as the area where you live can handle it .......

Otherwise, we'll be continuing to have this conversation for years and years to come. Our current pattern suburban sprawl is simply intractable and will continue to outpace our ability to build roads to support it.

huh ?

[Beantown Bronco]

I believe the answer is investing in more mass transit (HUGE props to Denver for the FastTracks stuff)... but more importantly by investing in the infrastructure of our CENTER CITIES. In the hope that eventually the pain of that commute begins to drive increased densities, which makes the management of these problems much easier for us as a people to handle.

Otherwise, we'll be continuing to have this conversation for years and years to come. Our current pattern suburban sprawl is simply intractable and will continue to outpace our ability to build roads to support it.

Bingo. I work a few hundred feet from the most expensive highway project in the US.....and you know what? It has not reduced congestion, pollution, traffic to/from the City of Boston and certainly has not reduced the number of accidents. It's a freaking mess and has clearly achieved none of its intended goals.

The worst part is, every independent research group they brought in at the beginning were in agreement: if they had just spent a small fraction of the money they spend on the Big Dig on the public transportation system, they could've have the best system in the world....one that would've had a much higher probability of accomplishing each and every goal they set for the city.

[Spider]

Bingo. I work a few hundred feet from the most expensive highway project in the US.....and you know what? It has not reduced congestion, pollution, traffic to/from the City of Boston and certainly has not reduced the number of accidents. It's a freaking mess and has clearly achieved none of its intended goals.

The worst part is, every independent research group they brought in at the beginning were in agreement: if they had just spent a small fraction of the money they spend on the Big Dig on the public transportation system, they could've have the best system in the world....one that would've had a much higher probability of accomplishing each and every goal they set for the city.

Boston is a poor example , you guys have several problems with your surface roads in that city ...... well the east coast from Boston to Elizabeth N.J. all share the same problems , but these Super interstates are a great Idea out west here in the Rocky mountain region you will only hit 3 cities with traffic problems ...
1. Denver ..
2. Salt Lake City ..
3. Albuquerque.....
and these cities are well spaced out from each other , as for Texas , Houston , Dallas Ft Worth ,are the worst , followed by Austin and San Antonio , then you have California by far the worst to drive through , but the overall theme is , Once you get west of St Louis Mo. it is a different world specially when it comes to traffic ......
Comparing the Problems in Boston to Denver would be like comparing a toilet backing up to Katrina

[baja]

That's so true about St. Louis, East of SL and West of SL are like day and night traffic wise.

[Spider]

That's so true about St. Louis, East of SL and West of SL are like day and night traffic wise.

It is ...... for some here to grasp what I am saying it is like Comparing Wyoming Traffic to that of the city of Denver .......;D

[baja]

I drove across the country (Connecticut to Cabo) a few years ago driving a pick up towing a Mazda RX-7. The number of big rigs on the highway was unbelievable .

I was hemmed in by 18 wheelers from Ct. to St. Louis. It really thinned out when I exited I-80 to I-76 down into Denver. Nice road BTW

[Spider]

I drove across the country (Connecticut to Cabo) a few years ago driving a pick up towing a Mazda RX-7. The number of big rigs on the highway was unbelievable .

I was hemmed in by 18 wheelers from Ct. to St. Louis. It really thinned out when I exited I-80 to I-76 down into Denver. Nice road BTW
I 76 is good road , even in Denver

[enjolras]

Living in the city like you do is great for a single guy , but a family needs room to grow , kids need activities .......

again thats fine for a guy without a family , kids will do some of the stupidest things yo ucan imagine , no need for them to do these things in the streets of a city

so moving to a safe area to raise a family is a bad thing ?

First off, I'm not a 'single guy'.

Secondly, cities provide the most in activities for kids. The best in culture and learning (where are the museums, science exhibits, and everything else?), the best in parks, and the best in cultural diversity. The idea that moving to a self-contained pod caught up in a cultural nowhere-land is 'safe' is just wrong. Suburbs have some of the busiest and largest streets in the nation. The only thing that suburbs don't have is a lot of minorities, and lets face it... fear of black people is what caused the white flight that established our suburban mentality in the first place.

I grew up in the 'burbs.. and I had ready access to copious amounts of drugs and alcohol. Driving (which the average suburbanite does several times a day) is orders of magnitude more dangerous than walking around the most dangerous of cities. 'Safe' my arse.

The fact is, in our truly great American cities (New York, Chicago, San Francisco) we have raised millions of kids. They've grown up safe, healthy, and productive. Our current sprawling car-oriented lifestyles simply can not be sustained. You mathematically CAN'T build enough roads or burn enough fuel to sustain it. Our cities are turned inside-out right now, and that needs to be fixed.

If you want an example of a city that has truly managed its growth correctly, look at Portland Oregon. It's a fairly dense city with *gasp* families living in dense city situations. It's also highly regarded as one of the gems of new American cities.

[baja]

I agree with you about the joys of living in the cities, it's a great life style, especially a good walking city.

[Spider]

First off, I'm not a 'single guy'.

Secondly, cities provide the most in activities for kids. The best in culture and learning (where are the museums, science exhibits, and everything else?), the best in parks, and the best in cultural diversity. The idea that moving to a self-contained pod caught up in a cultural nowhere-land is 'safe' is just wrong. Suburbs have some of the busiest and largest streets in the nation. The only thing that suburbs don't have is a lot of minorities, and lets face it... fear of black people is what caused the white flight that established our suburban mentality in the first place.

I grew up in the 'burbs.. and I had ready access to copious amounts of drugs and alcohol. Driving (which the average suburbanite does several times a day) is orders of magnitude more dangerous than walking around the most dangerous of cities. 'Safe' my arse.

The fact is, in our truly great American cities (New York, Chicago, San Francisco) we have raised millions of kids. They've grown up safe, healthy, and productive. Our current sprawling car-oriented lifestyles simply can not be sustained. You mathematically CAN'T build enough roads or burn enough fuel to sustain it. Our cities are turned inside-out right now, and that needs to be fixed.

If you want an example of a city that has truly managed its growth correctly, look at Portland Oregon. It's a fairly dense city with *gasp* families living in dense city situations. It's also highly regarded as one of the gems of new American cities.
Field trips ....... thsat takes care of the more things to do ... Driving isnt Dangerous , Stupid people are dangerous ......
no place is completely safe , but given the choice of Raising my kids off of 6 th and Lincoln as compared to 104 th and federal guess what .......
you are full of **** about the highways and fuel useage , when we cant sustain fossil fuels , another fuel will come along .......

[Meck77]

I believe the answer is investing in more mass transit (HUGE props to Denver for the FastTracks stuff)... but more importantly by investing in the infrastructure of our CENTER CITIES. In the hope that eventually the pain of that commute begins to drive increased densities, which makes the management of these problems much easier for us as a people to handle.
.

I agree with you. Fast Tracks as it was intended was a good idea. The original build out cost was about $4 billion. That is what the voters approved. 110 miles of light rail lines. Well that number has swelled to over $6 billion and it's growing by the day. IF it's completed and that is a big if now that the economy is in decline, RTD has had to raise rates to try and keep up etc the cost could be upwards of $10 Billion or more.

Enjolras read this article. RTD now says they need to take land from private property owners to build projects on to pay down their budget problems. http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jan/23/rtd-condemnation-splits-board/

What they are trying to do is illegal and their are senators who've already written legislation to prevent this but they are doing it again as we speak.

You mean to tell me thousands of people losing their land across metro Denver to developers is a good thing for our city? Why should they lose land because RTD can't pay for a project the voters approved?

[enjolras]

Field trips ....... thsat takes care of the more things to do ... Driving isnt Dangerous , Stupid people are dangerous ......
no place is completely safe , but given the choice of Raising my kids off of 6 th and Lincoln as compared to 104 th and federal guess what .......
you are full of **** about the highways and fuel useage , when we cant sustain fossil fuels , another fuel will come along .......

I'd be more than happy to raise my children in Riverfront park.... or almost anywhere in highland... or Wash Park... it's not like we have a shortage of great center city neighborhoods.

And no, I'm not full of anything. I'm a physicist and I understand concepts like conservation of energy and efficiency. There is an upper limit on our ability to produce fuel, in any form.

And yes, driving a several ton machine IS dangerous unto itself. Your dealing with momentums far beyond what the human body is meant to sustain. Throw other drivers into the mix and it becomes the 5th leading killer in the United States (much higher than for those under 50).

[Spider]

I'd be more than happy to raise my children in Riverfront park.... or almost anywhere in highland... or Wash Park... it's not like we have a shortage of great center city neighborhoods.

And no, I'm not full of anything. I'm a physicist and I understand concepts like conservation of energy and efficiency. There is an upper limit on our ability to produce fuel, in any form.

And yes, driving a several ton machine IS dangerous unto itself. Your dealing with momentums far beyond what the human body is meant to sustain. Throw other drivers into the mix and it becomes the 5th leading killer in the United States (much higher than for those under 50).
yeah , ok ....... again Driving isnt dangerous , stupid people driving is what is dangerous ......

[Bronco Bob]

yeah , ok ....... again Driving isnt dangerous , stupid people driving is what is dangerous ......

But what is more dangerous? A stupid person walking on the sidewalk
in a big city or a stupid person driving a big SUV on the street
at 40 mph in the suburbs?
Which would hurt a child more if they bumped into the child?

[Spider]

But what is more dangerous? A stupid person walking on the sidewalk
in a big city or a stupid person driving a big SUV on the street
at 40 mph in the suburbs?
Which would hurt a child more if they bumped into the child?

Chances are stupid guy walking is stoned , Drunk , or some kind of freak that happens ot be a republican and wants to do bad things after he knocks the kid down ........ Lets play what if games all night ...... If you have some asshole doing 40 in your hood in a suv , and he does it more then once ........thats on you .......

[Bronco Bob]

Chances are stupid guy walking is stoned , Drunk , or some kind of freak that happens ot be a republican and wants to do bad things after he knocks the kid down


And it would be better if he were in a car?



........ Lets play what if games all night ...... If you have some a-hole doing 40 in your hood in a suv , and he does it more then once ........thats on you .......

If he were walking it would be a lot easier to kick his ass.

[Spider]

And it would be better if he were in a car? dont you teach your kids not to play in the street ?




If he were walking it would be a lot easier to kick his ass.

if he is walking and doing 40 mph ... better leave his ass alone you dont want no part of him