Setting the record straight on IAN GOLD

[BroncoBuff]

I've slowly and grudgingly come around to the reality that the widespread OM hatred of Ian Gold is based on nothing more than armchair quarterbacks obsessed with his size and lack of stats (me included).

Let's Face facts: The reality is that Ian Gold is and always has been held in very high regard in Dove Valley. Shanahan has always praised him. Always. They've even screwed over an exceptionally talented 1st round pick to accomodate Gold without a moment's hesitation. There must a good reason for that.

I include myself in this group - so be mellow - but the amateurs around here hating Ian Gold are totally unsupported by any reality. Unless you're smarter that Shanny-Coyer-Bates-Slowik combined, it's time to face facts - now that he might've played his last game here - Ian was a damn good football player.

[Natedogg]

I've slowly and grudgingly come around to the reality that the widespread OM hatred of Ian Gold is based on nothing more than armchair quarterbacks obsessed with his size and lack of stats (me included).

Let's Face facts: The reality is that Ian Gold is and always has been held in very high regard in Dove Valley. Shanahan has always praised him. Always. They've even screwed over an exceptionally talented 1st round pick to accomodate Gold without a moment's hesitation. There must a good reason for that.

I include myself in this group - so be mellow - but the amateurs around here hating Ian Gold are totally unsupported by any reality. Unless you're smarter that Shanny-Coyer-Bates-Slowik combined, it's time to face facts - now that he might've played his last game here - Ian was a damn good football player.

Prepare to be lynched.

I have always felt that Gold was a very good bronco. Especially in the afc west he was great at covering the running back or te out of the backfield (due to his speed). Now that he has lost a step or two, he is pretty worthless though.

He also provided intangibles, like firing up the d. He also seemed to have a nose for turnovers. Something not usually seen from Bronco defensive players the past six years or so (other than champ).

[montrose]

I saw a significant drop in Gold's play after 2005, a year in which I thought he was very strong. To me, Gold was at his best early in his career as a special teams-specialist and nickel linebacker, but was a solid starting WLB as well. That said, it's hard not to believe bringing him in was a mistake considering the 1st round investment that was put into DJ that resulted in a strong rookie season at WLB. One could also point out that Gold's presence forced John Mobley to move to SLB which took him away from his natural position - another in a slew of poor decisions by the Broncos to play players out of position.

Gold has become an easy target for Bronco fans as he surely didn't play up to his full potential. He blew some coverages and blew even more tackles but he was far from the biggest problem the team had in 2007.

[Beantown Bronco]

Now that he has lost a step or two, he is pretty worthless though.

I think that's a bit strong. He got burned a few times on deeper TE routes this season by guys like Dallas Clark (who burned CBs and safeties that game, too BTW)....but so did a lot of really good defenders this season.

People made up their minds about Gold last season. Anything outside of a probowl type season in 2007 and he was going to get raked over the coals around here. That is why guys like Champ get a pass for getting burned deep while peeking in the backfield to defend the run and guys like Gold do not.

[Crushaholic]

It's always open season on Gold-bashing on the Mane, and I think it's a little frustrating. He didn't have a good year this past season, but who (besides Elvis Dumervil) had a good season on the D-line? I remember one chilly game against Washington two seasons ago where he LITERALLY saved the game for us by deflecting a Mark Brunell pass in the endzone as time was running out. I was freezing my hindquarters off that game, but I was very happy that Ian Gold made that play. His speed makes him a very valuable asset to the team...

[HEAV]

He was always an overrated safety playing linebacker...

[Hotrod]

I for one never understood all the Gold bashing. I mean who the hell does not want an undersized LB'er who can get blown up on their team.

[PRBronco]

Seriously, I could overlook some of his missed tackles if he played with any kind of an edge out there. I bet he runs the equivalent of a 4.2 40 to help tomlinson up after a play. When you list a linebacker's talents, do you really want to see "accomodating" as of them?

[elsid13]

Folks seem to forget at end of last season Shanahan was very unhappy with LB play and was trying to figure which of the two (Wilson and Gold) he could get rid of and get some value for. I believe that was reported by some of our insiders at the mane.

[rugbythug]

I saw a significant drop in Gold's play after 2005, a year in which I thought he was very strong. To me, Gold was at his best early in his career as a special teams-specialist and nickel linebacker, but was a solid starting WLB as well. That said, it's hard not to believe bringing him in was a mistake considering the 1st round investment that was put into DJ that resulted in a strong rookie season at WLB. One could also point out that Gold's presence forced John Mobley to move to SLB which took him away from his natural position - another in a slew of poor decisions by the Broncos to play players out of position.
Gold has become an easy target for Bronco fans as he surely didn't play up to his full potential. He blew some coverages and blew even more tackles but he was far from the biggest problem the team had in 2007.

That makes no sense. The Defense was solid and Ian played his way onto the field.

[Beantown Bronco]

Folks seem to forget at end of last season Shanahan was very unhappy with LB play and was trying to figure which of the two (Wilson and Gold) he could get rid of and get some value for. I believe that was reported by some of our insiders at the mane.

Wilson was specifically called out about his play before his injury. I clearly remember that.

[Taco John]

I'm guessing that Gold paid Travis McGriff's father off and is now in posession of "the evidence." That's the only way I can explain this situation.

[Orange_Beard]

Get 2 ropes. I agree.

[cmhargrove]

Ian is a great player, that may be in the "decline" of his career. I think his best asset was always his speed, but it seemed this year like he lost a step. Sometimes there are injuries that athletes don't make a big deal of, and maybe he was dinged up. I think Winborn played with more speed at the end of the season (but he also had fresh legs).

Gold shouldn't be a scapegoat. Neither he (nor DJ) was good enough to make up for our poor D-line play this year.

The real question shouldn't be anything about his perceived performance right now, it should be about his salary. I think he needs to restructure or walk, because there is no way he is worth 4 mil next year (is that right, 4 mil in 2008?). I would take Winborn in Ian's spot, then use the extra money to bring in a FA DT which makes the whole LB corps much stronger.

Other options exist, but he is not worth next year's salary figure - no way.

[montrose]

That makes no sense. The Defense was solid and Ian played his way onto the field.

I'm not saying the defense was poor and Ian certainly played well enough to earn time. I agree the defense was solid and Gold played his way onto the field.

I was simply pointing out that, in large part because of Gold, the team released Romo and moved Mobley from the WLB position where had played well for years to SLB where he was largely unheard.

As far as my point of players playing out of position, here's a few examples I can think of off the top of my head:

Mike Anderson - HB playing FB
Reuben Droughns - HB playing FB
Cecil Sapp - HB playing FB
Mike Bell - HB playing FB
Nate Jackson - WR playing TE
Trevor Pryce - DT playing DE
Josh Mallard - DE playing DT
Tim Crowder - DE playing DT
Alvin McKinley - DE playing DT
John Mobley - WLB playing SLB
Glenn Cadrez - MLB playing WLB
DJ Williams - WLB playing SLB
DJ Williams - WLB playing MLB
Nate Webster - MLB playing SLB
John Lynch - SS playing FS
Hamza Abdullah - FS playing SS
Domonique Foxworth - CB playing FS
Domonique Foxworth - CB playing FS

I understand that injuries come and force you to make changes, but there is a certain pattern that the Broncos like to move players to different positions than they are accustomed to. Sometimes this works: Pryce was a stellar DE, but usually it doesn't. Hell I remember during his rookie camp, they wanted to experiment with BMarsh at TE. Why? Surprised Nate Webster sucks at covering TE's? The guy had never played SLB in his life in addition to the fact he's body type isn't the best fit for the position. Giving a guy a look at another position to see how he fits is one thing, but there's a reason these player's have played the same position most of their life - it feels natural.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Groupthink, Broncobuff.

That answers your question.

Some members of this site are proud to promote groupthink.

[ND Bronco Fan]

Other options exist, but he is not worth next year's salary figure - no way.

That is really what it comes down to IMO.

[BroncoInferno]

The fact of the matter is that Ian Gold was a excellent player for us up until about the final six games of '06. That is an absolute fact regardless of what the mindless haters say. However, since then his play has been very sporadic (though not as god awful as many here have tried to portray). It looks like he's lost a couple of steps, and for a guy whose greatest asset was speed, that means it's probably time for the club to move on.

[rugbythug]

I'm not saying the defense was poor and Ian certainly played well enough to earn time. I agree the defense was solid and Gold played his way onto the field.

I was simply pointing out that, in large part because of Gold, the team released Romo and moved Mobley from the WLB position where had played well for years to SLB where he was largely unheard.

As far as my point of players playing out of position, here's a few examples I can think of off the top of my head:

Mike Anderson - HB playing FB Played Well
Reuben Droughns - HB playing FBPlayed Well
Cecil Sapp - HB playing FB
Mike Bell - HB playing FB Wouldn't make the team at previous position
Nate Jackson - WR playing TE Wouldn't make the team at previous position
Trevor Pryce - DT playing DE Played Well
Josh Mallard - DE playing DT Played Well
Tim Crowder - DE playing DT
Alvin McKinley - DE playing DT
John Mobley - WLB playing MLB When?
Glenn Cadrez - MLB playing WLB Played Well
DJ Williams - WLB playing SLB Played Well
DJ Williams - WLB playing MLB Played Well
Nate Webster - MLB playing SLB
John Lynch - SS playing FS Just because the program says that I don't believe it
Hamza Abdullah - FS playing SS Just because the program says that I don't believe it

Domonique Foxworth - CB playing FS

I understand that injuries come and force you to make changes, but there is a certain pattern that the Broncos like to move players to different positions than they are accustomed to. Sometimes this works: Pryce was a stellar DE, but usually it doesn't. Hell I remember during his rookie camp, they wanted to experiment with BMarsh at TE. Why? Surprised Nate Webster sucks at covering TE's? The guy had never played SLB in his life in addition to the fact he's body type isn't the best fit for the position.

Every team moves players. You try and put the best players on the field all the time. Mike Vrabel plays TE.

[-Slap-]

I've slowly and grudgingly come around to the reality that the widespread OM hatred of Ian Gold is based on nothing more than armchair quarterbacks obsessed with his size and lack of stats (me included).

Let's Face facts: The reality is that Ian Gold is and always has been held in very high regard in Dove Valley. Shanahan has always praised him. Always. They've even screwed over an exceptionally talented 1st round pick to accomodate Gold without a moment's hesitation. There must a good reason for that.

I include myself in this group - so be mellow - but the amateurs around here hating Ian Gold are totally unsupported by any reality. Unless you're smarter that Shanny-Coyer-Bates-Slowik combined, it's time to face facts - now that he might've played his last game here - Ian was a damn good football player.

You're high on sperm, dude.

:welcome:

[SureShot]

Lets face these facts. For a fast athletic LB Ian has 4 INTs and 17 sacks in 8 years.

Very impressive.

[montrose]

Every team moves players. You try and put the best players on the field all the time. Mike Vrabel plays TE.

I agree that many teams move players around but there has been a common theme amongst the Broncos in recent years. I simply don't believe in the "best 11 men on the field" theory, I think it's a crap response for moving players to positions in which they don't feel natural. That's all. Vrabel plays TE in an exclusive Goal Line package as have other defensive players, that's fine. But I don't see Vrabel lining up as the Pats starting TE. If you look at most of the past year's strong teams, you see few - if any - players playing lengths of time out of position. That's all.

As far as some of your assessments, I disagree that Anderson and Droughns played well at FB. I believe they played to the best of their abilities as HB's playing FB, however they were never near the level of a Howard Griffith or Vonta Leach as a true blocking fullback. They were... out of position. As per Bell and Jackson not making the team at other positions, the Broncos could have used Bell's roster spot for a true fullback and Jackson has stayed on because of his special teams abilities. I noted that Pryce played well at DE but I disagree with Josh Mallard. Mallard is a prime example of the Broncos poor DL play - a guy picked up off the street, playing out of position and routinely being handled. Mobley playing MLB was a typo I changed, I meant he played SLB after Gold took over for Romo. Mobley was a fine SLB but never the difference maker he was on the weakside. Cadrez was average at best his one season on the weakside, but that's very understandable considering Mobley's injury and Wilson sliding in at MLB. DJ's a thread all to himself, he was a good SLB and played well at MLB for a natural WLB - again, a player who would best served at his natural position. Lynch spent most of last season down in the box but had spent considerable time in 2004, 2005 and 2006 as the "deep free." Our blitzing schemes were able to protect that to some extent but he's best served playing the role he did 2nd half of last season. Abdullah played SS as Foxworth played FS the 2nd half of last season often on passing downs.

My point is that I don't think a team can be successful over a long period of time with so many players playing un-natural positions. That's all.

[BroncoInferno]

Lets face these facts. For a fast athletic LB Ian has 4 INTs and 17 sacks in 8 years.

Very impressive.

Linebackers in a 4-3 do not tend to put up big sack or INT numbers. That's why throwing those stats around is silly in this context. A 4-3 defense relies on the front four to apply pressure, with only the occasional blitz from a linebacker. The primary role of a 4-3 linebacker is to chase the ball-carrier and cover TEs and RBs. Most LBs have hands of stone, so judging their coverage ability by how many INTs they amassed is pretty short sighted.

Using your standard, Al Wilson does not stack up much better. He had 21.5 sacks and 5 INTS in 8 years

[rugbythug]

I agree that many teams move players around but there has been a common theme amongst the Broncos in recent years. I simply don't believe in the "best 11 men on the field" theory, I think it's a crap response for moving players to positions in which they don't feel natural. That's all. Vrabel plays TE in an exclusive Goal Line package as have other defensive players, that's fine. But I don't see Vrabel lining up as the Pats starting TE. If you look at most of the past year's strong teams, you see few - if any - players playing lengths of time out of position. That's all.

As far as some of your assessments, I disagree that Anderson and Droughns played well at FB. I believe they played to the best of their abilities as HB's playing FB, however they were never near the level of a Howard Griffith or Vonta Leach as a true blocking fullback. They were... out of position. As per Bell and Jackson not making the team at other positions, the Broncos could have used Bell's roster spot for a true fullback and Jackson has stayed on because of his special teams abilities. I noted that Pryce played well at DE but I disagree with Josh Mallard. Mallard is a prime example of the Broncos poor DL play - a guy picked up off the street, playing out of position and routinely being handled. Mobley playing MLB was a typo I changed, I meant he played SLB after Gold took over for Romo. Mobley was a fine SLB but never the difference maker he was on the weakside. Cadrez was average at best his one season on the weakside, but that's very understandable considering Mobley's injury and Wilson sliding in at MLB. DJ's a thread all to himself, he was a good SLB and played well at MLB for a natural WLB - again, a player who would best served at his natural position. Lynch spent most of last season down in the box but had spent considerable time in 2004, 2005 and 2006 as the "deep free." Our blitzing schemes were able to protect that to some extent but he's best served playing the role he did 2nd half of last season. Abdullah played SS as Foxworth played FS the 2nd half of last season often on passing downs.

My point is that I don't think a team can be successful over a long period of time with so many players playing un-natural positions. That's all.

I disagree on the Fulbacking abilities of Droughns and Anderson. Anderson Blocked for CP for 2 1500 yd Seasons. Droughns has shown more as a FB than HB IMO.

The point I want to make is this. In any organization people are going to have to step up and do things they don't like. No LB wants to be the SLB. But someone hast to do it. IF Mobley is not as good as Gold at WLB. But the best player on the roster for SLB you would rather play someone who is at their best at SLB but still not as good as Mobley was.

[TheReverend]

Welcome to the club, Buff.

I'm the goddamn founder. Don't mind the angry herd of sheep outside.

[yavoon]

blah blah shanny knows best, blah blah let me berate ppl for disagreeing.

[CBF1]

I've slowly and grudgingly come around to the reality that the widespread OM hatred of Ian Gold is based on nothing more than armchair quarterbacks obsessed with his size and lack of stats (me included).

Let's Face facts: The reality is that Ian Gold is and always has been held in very high regard in Dove Valley. Shanahan has always praised him. Always. They've even screwed over an exceptionally talented 1st round pick to accomodate Gold without a moment's hesitation. There must a good reason for that.

I include myself in this group - so be mellow - but the amateurs around here hating Ian Gold are totally unsupported by any reality. Unless you're smarter that Shanny-Coyer-Bates-Slowik combined, it's time to face facts - now that he might've played his last game here - Ian was a damn good football player.

I like you buddy, but you have just earned your first negative rep from me. Ian Gold tackles like my momma and defends like my dead grandmother. He can not be shown the door quick enough.

[CBF1]

Groupthink, Broncobuff.

That answers your question.

Some members of this site are proud to promote groupthink.

Thank you.... Now go wipe Buff off of your chin :thumbs:

[wolf754life]

gold is terrible, he is only a complimentary player, one who has to have exceptional talent in front and around him to make an impact, now with below average talent he is exposed for what he is.......

A one dimensional soft linebacker who can't tackle.

[BroncoBuff]

Actually guys, I AGREE with all the negative stuff about Gold - I made that pretty clear. I'm just saying that the evidence says we were (and some of us still are) all wrong.

Remember ... Shanahan RE-obtained Gold with full knowledge he would have to crowbar a very talented 1st round player into a different position ... then a second different position ... and nobody at Dove Valley batted an eye at any step of the way. And elsid, OM "insider rumors"?! That's the closest you have to an official negative comment on him? Because I've never, ever heard a discouraging word outta Dove Valley on Ian Gold. Ever. They have unhesitatingly started him on every down, and moved and benched othetr players to accomodate him. That oughtta mean something to the people around here.

[yavoon]

Actually guys, I AGREE with all the negative stuff about Gold - I made that pretty clear. I'm just saying that the evidence says we were (and for some of us, are) all wrong.

Remember ... Shanahan RE-obtained Gold with full knowledge he would have to crowbar a very talented 1st round player into a different position ... then a second different position ... and nobody at Dove Valley batted an eye at any step of the way. And elsid, OM "insider rumors"?! That's the closest you have to an official negative comment on him? Because I've never, ever heard a discouraging word outta Dove Valley on Ian Gold. Ever. They have unhesitatingly started him on every down, and moved and benched othetr players to accomodate him. That oughtta mean something to the people around here.

yah it means shanny is an awful GM. next question?

[BroncoInferno]

gold is terrible, he is only a complimentary player, one who has to have exceptional talent in front and around him to make an impact, now with below average talent he is exposed for what he is.......

A one dimensional soft linebacker who can't tackle.

He had the Browncos in front of him in 2005 and had an excellent season by any reasonable standard.

[Florida_Bronco]

I've always liked Gold, but his play has definetly gone downhill lately and Wabbit has mentioned that the Broncos wanted to dump Gold last year and will likely do it this year.

[-Slap-]

He's the primary reason we have candyass finesse defense.

Next time bump one of the 7000 existing threads about that weak kneed fag.

[montrose]

I disagree on the Fulbacking abilities of Droughns and Anderson. Anderson Blocked for CP for 2 1500 yd Seasons. Droughns has shown more as a FB than HB IMO.

The point I want to make is this. In any organization people are going to have to step up and do things they don't like. No LB wants to be the SLB. But someone hast to do it. IF Mobley is not as good as Gold at WLB. But the best player on the roster for SLB you would rather play someone who is at their best at SLB but still not as good as Mobley was.

I suppose we'll agree to disagree on the fullback play, I simply never saw the type of blocking a true-power fullback brings from Anderson or Droughns. Both players were halfbacks coming out of school and are playing halfback elsewhere in the league.

As per the other point on the LB's, and the general idea on players out of position, this has been my major point on building a team. I have no doubt Mobley was the best SLB on the roster at the time just as I have no doubt DJ was the best MLB and SLB on the roster at the time he was playing those positions.

My argument has been that, this is the NFL - you choose the players on your roster. It was the Broncos decision to give Gold a big deal with DJ already on the roster - both playing the same position. Why not put the same money into a natural SLB? Why sign SS John Lynch when you already have two other players (Kennedy, Ferguson) on the roster at the same position (especially considering the team desperately needed, and still needs, a ballhawking FS)? Why go into a season with five halfbacks on the roster and not one fullback (hell, even the pass-happy Patriots have Heath Evans on the roster)? It's this same pattern that upsets me, I actually think the coaching staff (and players for that matter) do the best for the situations they're put into but the front office must do a better job bringing in players to fill specific roles they're naturally suited to do so. Once the roster is set, I understand that the coaches have to put the players into the best possible situations to have a winning team, but I'd like to see more thought put into the specific positions of player's brought in.

[elsid13]

Actually guys, I AGREE with all the negative stuff about Gold - I made that pretty clear. I'm just saying that the evidence says we were (and some of us still are) all wrong.

Remember ... Shanahan RE-obtained Gold with full knowledge he would have to crowbar a very talented 1st round player into a different position ... then a second different position ... and nobody at Dove Valley batted an eye at any step of the way. And elsid, OM "insider rumors"?! That's the closest you have to an official negative comment on him? Because I've never, ever heard a discouraging word outta Dove Valley on Ian Gold. Ever. They have unhesitatingly started him on every down, and moved and benched othetr players to accomodate him. That oughtta mean something to the people around here.

I have strong feeling we re obtained him because Coyer wanted him. Shanny appears to get the players his coaches want

[epicSocialism4tw]

You're high on sperm, dude.

:welcome:

Pure class. :thumbs:

[epicSocialism4tw]

He's the primary reason we have candyass finesse defense.
Next time bump one of the 7000 existing threads about that weak kneed fag.

LOL

There are the homophobic slurs we have come to know from you!

It's okay dude, you can admit your homophilia. No judgments. There are some gay dudes here on the site you can confide in. Im sure they have been waiting for you to emerge from the closet.

[Popps]

This thread is good.

[Gcver2ver3]

Linebackers in a 4-3 do not tend to put up big sack or INT numbers. That's why throwing those stats around is silly in this context. A 4-3 defense relies on the front four to apply pressure, with only the occasional blitz from a linebacker. The primary role of a 4-3 linebacker is to chase the ball-carrier and cover TEs and RBs. Most LBs have hands of stone, so judging their coverage ability by how many INTs they amassed is pretty short sighted.

Using your standard, Al Wilson does not stack up much better. He had 21.5 sacks and 5 INTS in 8 years

I disagree....WLBs are supposed to be the playmakers on D....

they get blitz opportunities and int opportunities through coverage......

Ian Gold sucks....

[Lev Vyvanse]

LOL

There are the homophobic slurs we have come to know from you!

It's okay dude, you can admit your homophilia. No judgments. There are some gay dudes here on the site you can confide in. Im sure they have been waiting for you to emerge from the closet.

"candyass finesse" is a homophobic slur? I'm clear on the "weak kneed fag" but "candyass finesse" really?

[SoCalBronco]

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1153985/2/istockphoto_1153985_calendar_march.jpg

http://www.web40571.clarahost.co.uk/roman/pix/IV_clock_Westminster.JPG

http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/rw/lg/7/1/Maxi-Posters-Grim-reaper-71949.jpg

Tick...tock.....tick....tock.

[Broncojef]

I won't even be able to watch the Broncos if they try fielding him with DJ at MLB again...pathetic...

[jsco70]

His played slipped dramatically this season especially in the tackling department. He missed WAY too many tackles, some of which he looked downright pathetic. He is on the downhill side of his career so it's time Denver moved on.

However, he was a good player in the past and I think most fans recognize this.

[BroncoInferno]

I disagree....WLBs are supposed to be the playmakers on D....

they get blitz opportunities and int opportunities through coverage......

Ian Gold sucks....

Awesome. You disagree. Let's see stats from 4-3 LBs over a comparable stretch of time who stack up significantly better.

And anyone who thinks Ian Gold was any less than fantastic in 2005 does not know a goddamn thing about football, period. I'll grant he was bad this season, but the attempts to make it seem he always sucked only reflect utter stupidity.

[wabbit]

Regardless of the vote of confidence at the end of the season, the Broncos are in advanced search mode to replace Ian Gold...they really are.

He may even stay with the team another year if he accepts a lesser role and a re-negotiated contract, but I'd bet a nickel he will spend more time on Special Teams than playing LB IF he hangs on.

[fontaine]

Gold did have some bounce back games in the early part of the season but his play really tailed off towards the end.

1. He doesn't and can't fight through traffic to make tackles.

2. His coverage play has really dropped off.

3. His cap number is too high and we can get similar production from a draft pick.

So what are the reasons for keeping him?

[-Slap-]

LOL

There are the homophobic slurs we have come to know from you!

It's okay dude, you can admit your homophilia. No judgments. There are some gay dudes here on the site you can confide in. Im sure they have been waiting for you to emerge from the closet.

Ask your old man, peewee.

[-Slap-]

Awesome. You disagree. Let's see stats from 4-3 LBs over a comparable stretch of time who stack up significantly better.

And anyone who thinks Ian Gold was any less than fantastic in 2005 does not know a goddamn thing about football, period. I'll grant he was bad this season, but the attempts to make it seem he always sucked only reflect utter stupidity.

I mean, seriously, you have got to be ****ing kidding me.

Nice thread, BroncoBuff. Keep bringing your A game to the table with these original and thought provoking threads.

[Drek]

Awesome. You disagree. Let's see stats from 4-3 LBs over a comparable stretch of time who stack up significantly better.

And anyone who thinks Ian Gold was any less than fantastic in 2005 does not know a goddamn thing about football, period. I'll grant he was bad this season, but the attempts to make it seem he always sucked only reflect utter stupidity.

I wouldn't say fantastic, but he definitely played at a very high level. Not pro-bowl, but he was on the fringe.

The problem however is exactly what I mentioned in the spring following that season, that we needed to draft a replacement ASAP because Gold is so dependent on his speed to make plays. When he starts to lose a step his play will decline swiftly.

Well that started to happen in '06 and it was in full affect last year. Its not that he's a horrible player, but he's small, he's lost more than a step now, and he was never a guy who could make big plays just on instinct and fundamentals because he lived off his athleticism.

Now that he's getting to the ball carrier one or two steps later he doesn't have the skills or power to make the play. He needs position to make sound tackles, and now that he's slowed down he can't get in position against any RB, WR, or TE with any room to move.

[jsco70]

Does it really matter now how well Gold played in 2005? It's time to move on in my opinion.

[Inkana7]

Regardless of the vote of confidence at the end of the season, the Broncos are in advanced search mode to replace Ian Gold...they really are.

He may even stay with the team another year if he accepts a lesser role and a re-negotiated contract, but I'd bet a nickel he will spend more time on Special Teams than playing LB IF he hangs on.

Winborn played a fantastic game against Minnesota.

Thanks for the inside info, wabbit.

[BroncoInferno]

I wouldn't say fantastic, but he definitely played at a very high level. Not pro-bowl, but he was on the fringe.

The problem however is exactly what I mentioned in the spring following that season, that we needed to draft a replacement ASAP because Gold is so dependent on his speed to make plays. When he starts to lose a step his play will decline swiftly.

Well that started to happen in '06 and it was in full affect last year. Its not that he's a horrible player, but he's small, he's lost more than a step now, and he was never a guy who could make big plays just on instinct and fundamentals because he lived off his athleticism.

Now that he's getting to the ball carrier one or two steps later he doesn't have the skills or power to make the play. He needs position to make sound tackles, and now that he's slowed down he can't get in position against any RB, WR, or TE with any room to move.

Agreed. As I said earlier, His play really started to tail off over the last six games of '06. I'm not defending his play now, but it's just ridiculous to claim that he was at no point a very good player as many are trying to suggest.

[Cito Pelon]

Linebackers in a 4-3 do not tend to put up big sack or INT numbers. That's why throwing those stats around is silly in this context. A 4-3 defense relies on the front four to apply pressure, with only the occasional blitz from a linebacker. The primary role of a 4-3 linebacker is to chase the ball-carrier and cover TEs and RBs. Most LBs have hands of stone, so judging their coverage ability by how many INTs they amassed is pretty short sighted.

Using your standard, Al Wilson does not stack up much better. He had 21.5 sacks and 5 INTS in 8 years

Good Lord, stated so authoritatively, yet so f'ing ignorant. Sure, poor LB's in a 4-3 don't amass big sack or INT #'s. And if the primary role of a 4-3 LB is to cover TE's and RB's, wouldn't a good 4-3 LB amass some INT's?

Christ, kid, think before you post.

[BroncoInferno]

Good Lord, stated so authoritatively, yet so f'ing ignorant. Sure, poor LB's in a 4-3 don't amass big sack or INT #'s. And if the primary role of a 4-3 LB is to cover TE's and RB's, wouldn't a good 4-3 LB amass some INT's?

Christ, kid, think before you post.

INTs have absolutely nothing to do with overall coverage ability. You can cover a man and prevent his making a reception--the primary objective of coverage, in case you didn't know--without making a lot of picks. Most LBs have bad hands. How often do you see LBs near the top of the league leaders in INTs?

And I love how you provided so many examples to prove my ignorance. Why don't take a quick scan of the leagues 4-3 teams this season and show me a LB who put up big sack and INT numbers this season. I'm sure there will be examples o'plenty.

[fontaine]

INTs have absolutely nothing to do with overall coverage ability. Most LBs have bad hands. How often do you see LBs near the top of the league leaders in INTs?

And I love how you provided so many examples to prove my ignorance. Why don't take a quick scan of the leagues 4-3 teams this season and show me a LB who put up big sack and INT numbers this season. I'm sure there will be examples o'plenty.


I think the point is we know we can't send Gold on a blitz because he gets easily chipped by RBs, and we know he's got stone hands. The ONLY real saving grace was his athletic ability + speed. And now that this also is deteriorating he has nothing to fall back on and well, is just an average to mediocre LB who's getting paid too much money.

[Gcver2ver3]

Awesome. You disagree. Let's see stats from 4-3 LBs over a comparable stretch of time who stack up significantly better.

And anyone who thinks Ian Gold was any less than fantastic in 2005 does not know a goddamn thing about football, period. I'll grant he was bad this season, but the attempts to make it seem he always sucked only reflect utter stupidity.

dude relax.....

i never said he sucked in 05....

why would i care about 05?...

it's 2008 now

and ian gold sucks.....

[Inkana7]

Jamie Winborn played better in 2 games than Ian Gold played in 14.

[Cito Pelon]

INTs have absolutely nothing to do with overall coverage ability. You can cover a man and prevent his making a reception--the primary objective of coverage, in case you didn't know--without making a lot of picks. Most LBs have bad hands. How often do you see LBs near the top of the league leaders in INTs?

And I love how you provided so many examples to prove my ignorance. Why don't take a quick scan of the leagues 4-3 teams this season and show me a LB who put up big sack and INT numbers this season. I'm sure there will be examples o'plenty.

Look at the stats yourself and see "examples o'plenty":

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=LINEBACKER&season=2007&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Find

Compare them to Gold's career stats:

http://www.nfl.com/players/iangold/profile?id=GOL024253

C'mon kid, get the facts before you make these outrageous statements.

[CBF1]

Setting the record... 01-25-2008 08:38 PM angryllama that makes alot of sense.

Wooohooo Negative rep.... Thanks Llama :)

[TheReverend]

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1153985/2/istockphoto_1153985_calendar_march.jpg

http://www.web40571.clarahost.co.uk/roman/pix/IV_clock_Westminster.JPG

http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/rw/lg/7/1/Maxi-Posters-Grim-reaper-71949.jpg

Tick...tock.....tick....tock.

The only reason Princess DJ isn't in the same situation is his age and rookie contract...

[Inkana7]

And because he can actually tackle.

[OABB]

This isn't fair. It is far too easy to pick on Ian Gold. this thread is like pushing a crippled kid down the stairs. you guys are heartless.

Gold is average at best, and that is talking about him during his prime. Last year was one of the worst performances I have ever seen from a linebacker in my lifetime(I am 30 this june). He made Dre Bly look like butkis in basic tackling ability.

If Gold were a running back covering an interception return, I would still say his takling ability is laughable, but he is our starting OLB! Webster at least has an excuse- as he is a backup forced into an uncomfortable role due to injuries(not withstanding his own Joe Namath like knees) And DJ, while so often blasted here, is showing much improvement weekly, and at times, flashed his incredible upside.

Ian Gold is terrible and should be the first bronco sent packing.

[Merlin]

I used to like Gold, and never cared for the knee jerk hate displayed by many in this forum, but he was at best avg last season, and really poor this season. He could still sniff the plays far better than DJ, but his drop in speed and lack of strength make him a liability at will. Without speed there is not much value to Gold (other than STs).

As to why the coaching staff supported him? Because he used to be good (and far better than DJ, that is why he could play nickel and DJ could not), but those days are gone. The reason he played this yr was more a reflection on the lack of depth in LBs than his talent.

[Inkana7]

Wasn't it reported that we would have liked to have drafted Lawrence Timmons in the last draft to replace Ian?

[Beantown Bronco]

Jamie Winborn played better in 2 games than Ian Gold played in 14.

people who say that either didn't watch all the games this season or simply see what they want to see. Gold had a bad year overall, but he had two or three games that were better than anything Winborn supposedly did in the last three games.

[BroncoBuff]

Wasn't it reported that we would have liked to have drafted Lawrence Timmons in the last draft to replace Ian?
Draft Lawrence Timmons, yes. He was one of three guys Shanahan had apparently "targeted." (Harrell and Jarvis the other two). But I'm not sure it was specifically a replacement for Ian. We were searching for a Sma last offseason, too ... Webster, Moore and Holdman were auditioning. My feeling is that Ian would have started even had Timmons been drated.

[Beantown Bronco]

Gold is average at best, and that is talking about him during his prime.

Considering what Gold was able to do in his prime, I'd be curious to see what you really think of DJ. Gold's best seasons are, if not clearly better, at least arguably better than anything DJ has done so far.

And DJ, while so often blasted here, is showing much improvement weekly, and at times, flashed his incredible upside.

Great, we're still talking about a guy's "upside" after 4 years in the league.

[dsmoot]

Ian is a great player, that may be in the "decline" of his career. I think his best asset was always his speed, but it seemed this year like he lost a step. Sometimes there are injuries that athletes don't make a big deal of, and maybe he was dinged up. I think Winborn played with more speed at the end of the season (but he also had fresh legs).

Gold shouldn't be a scapegoat. Neither he (nor DJ) was good enough to make up for our poor D-line play this year.

The real question shouldn't be anything about his perceived performance right now, it should be about his salary. I think he needs to restructure or walk, because there is no way he is worth 4 mil next year (is that right, 4 mil in 2008?). I would take Winborn in Ian's spot, then use the extra money to bring in a FA DT which makes the whole LB corps much stronger.

Other options exist, but he is not worth next year's salary figure - no way.

If the coaching staff is still in love with Gold then I obviously can't evaluate talent (and maybe I can't). I watched him the year before he left to go to Tampa and I continually watched him being blown up on running plays to his side. This year I saw too many missed tackles and a day late getting to the play. I was somewhat shocked when Denver re-signed him because I thought he was too small and DJ was an improvement on the weakside. I also thought Denver way overpaid for him the second time around.

[elsid13]

Draft Lawrence Timmons, yes. He was one of three guys Shanahan had apparently "targeted." (Harrell and Jarvis the other two). But I'm not sure it was specifically a replacement for Ian. We were searching for a Sma last offseason, too ... Webster, Moore and Holdman were auditioning. My feeling is that Ian would have started even had Timmons been drated.

Timmons is a Will Backer, it would be harder for him to play over the TE.

[BroncoBuff]

Timmons is a Will Backer, it would be harder for him to play over the TE.
The Steelers played him mostly inside in their 3-4.

[elsid13]

The Steelers played him mostly inside in their 3-4.

The Steelers are also slowly migrating to the 4-3 Tampa Cover 2. When they finally make that move he slides into the will spot.

[Tombstone RJ]

I'm not saying the defense was poor and Ian certainly played well enough to earn time. I agree the defense was solid and Gold played his way onto the field.

I was simply pointing out that, in large part because of Gold, the team released Romo and moved Mobley from the WLB position where had played well for years to SLB where he was largely unheard.

As far as my point of players playing out of position, here's a few examples I can think of off the top of my head:

Mike Anderson - HB playing FB
Reuben Droughns - HB playing FB
Cecil Sapp - HB playing FB
Mike Bell - HB playing FB
Nate Jackson - WR playing TE
Trevor Pryce - DT playing DE
Josh Mallard - DE playing DT
Tim Crowder - DE playing DT
Alvin McKinley - DE playing DT
John Mobley - WLB playing SLB
Glenn Cadrez - MLB playing WLB
DJ Williams - WLB playing SLB
DJ Williams - WLB playing MLB
Nate Webster - MLB playing SLB
John Lynch - SS playing FS
Hamza Abdullah - FS playing SS
Domonique Foxworth - CB playing FS
Domonique Foxworth - CB playing FS

I understand that injuries come and force you to make changes, but there is a certain pattern that the Broncos like to move players to different positions than they are accustomed to. Sometimes this works: Pryce was a stellar DE, but usually it doesn't. Hell I remember during his rookie camp, they wanted to experiment with BMarsh at TE. Why? Surprised Nate Webster sucks at covering TE's? The guy had never played SLB in his life in addition to the fact he's body type isn't the best fit for the position. Giving a guy a look at another position to see how he fits is one thing, but there's a reason these player's have played the same position most of their life - it feels natural.

Wow, great post. I tried making this same argument with peeps here and it was like talking to a brick wall.

[DivineLegion]

Personaly my hatred for Ian Gold is a culmination of missed tackles and blown assignments. I could care less about stats if Ian Gold would acctualy make a sure tackle instead of diving or trying to play grab ass.

[CHANGSTER]

Personaly my hatred for Ian Gold is a culmination of missed tackles and blown assignments. I could care less about stats if Ian Gold would acctualy make a sure tackle instead of diving or trying to play grab ass.

Yep, bottom line is he cant tackle. A LINEBACKER that cant tackle! Like having a QB who cant pass (bvp) :rofl:

[Natedogg]

I stick up for gold.

But I am about to stop if I ever see him get steamrolled, help the player up, smile, and kiss his ass ever again.

That ish drives me crazy.

[Inkana7]

people who say that either didn't watch all the games this season or simply see what they want to see. Gold had a bad year overall, but he had two or three games that were better than anything Winborn supposedly did in the last three games.

Supposedly? As in, you have no clue and are making assumptions? Someone once told me that people who say that either didn't watch all the games this season or simply see what they want to see.

Name one game where Gold big plays. Anyone who says the Tennessee game is just looking at stats. Gold was supposed to be spying VY and he made him look like a fool. His fumble recovery he got in that game he was in position to grab because he missed a tackle and fell on his ass, and the ball rolled to him.

Watching Gold try to play linebacker is somewhat comical.

[kappys]

I don't know what's more frightening, watching Ian Gold play LB for us another year or watching Winborn try to fill that role instead.

[Inkana7]

I don't know what's more frightening, watching Ian Gold play LB for us another year or watching Winborn try to fill that role instead.

I thought the same, then I went back and watched Winborn play. We'd be much better off with Jamie playing WLB than Lil' Ian.

[OABB]

Considering what Gold was able to do in his prime, I'd be curious to see what you really think of DJ. Gold's best seasons are, if not clearly better, at least arguably better than anything DJ has done so far.



Great, we're still talking about a guy's "upside" after 4 years in the league.


to be fair to DJ, he is playing out of position for the third straight year. If we were still talking potential at weakside than there would be a problem. Remember he was very strong there when he was only a rookie.

I'm not sure how many other linebackers can say they played three different positions in their first four years and finished second in roty voting, as well as second in tackles this year.

He doesn't seem to have instincts, but than again, it's hard to develop them when you have to switch to another position every year. I will hold off on him until the middle of next year before I say anything good or bad.

I will say this though, Ian gold could NEVER play strong side or mlb.

let me ask you this, if DJ were playing in Ian's spot, how do you think they would compare over the last four years?

[Beantown Bronco]

Name one game where Gold big plays. Anyone who says the Tennessee game is just looking at stats. Gold was supposed to be spying VY and he made him look like a fool. His fumble recovery he got in that game he was in position to grab because he missed a tackle and fell on his ass, and the ball rolled to him.

You obviously missed the first Oakland game.

[Beantown Bronco]

I will say this though, Ian gold could NEVER play strong side or mlb.

he did in TB.

[montrose]

if DJ were playing in Ian's spot, how do you think they would compare over the last four years?

Had the Broncos left DJ at his natural position all along, I truly believe he'd be the best WLB in the NFL right now.

[OABB]

he did in TB.

is there a "foot in the mouth" smiley?

[OABB]

Had the Broncos left DJ at his natural position all along, I truly believe he'd be the best WLB in the NFL right now.

i agree. I think this feeling is why there is so much animosity towards Gold here. that and his play last year.

[Smiling Assassin27]

raise your bloody standards. if you want a marginal LB with inconsistent tackling and coverage abilities, Gold is your man. if you want a guy who is no longer quick off the edge and too small to bull rush even a RB, Gold is your guy. if you want a LB who can have a ball hit him directly in the hands only to have him drop it, Gold is your guy. if you want just a guy at LB, then Gold is a guy.

Gold has made the most of his size, speed, and overall ability to carve out a nice career in the NFL, give him credit for that. but is he a difference maker LB in today's NFL? get serious. and this coming from a guy who wears Gold's #52 jersey every gameday.

[~Crash~]

people who say that either didn't watch all the games this season or simply see what they want to see. Gold had a bad year overall, but he had two or three games that were better than anything Winborn supposedly did in the last three games.

this is fact don't get in there way of fiction...

Gold sucked for 8 games just like the rest of the players but dont let the truth hit you ......:strong:

I believe gold will be our starting WLB next year !

[OABB]

this is fact don't get in there way of fiction...

Gold sucked for 8 games just like the rest of the players but dont let the truth hit you ......:strong:

I believe gold will be our starting WLB next year !

I think the confusion stems from Winborn actually tackling players. i admit, I was confused up until your post released me from my own inane delusion.

If Gold is our starting wolb next year, I will join the telluride fan club.

[~Crash~]

raise your bloody standards. if you want a marginal LB with inconsistent tackling and coverage abilities, Gold is your man. if you want a guy who is no longer quick off the edge and too small to bull rush even a RB, Gold is your guy. if you want a LB who can have a ball hit him directly in the hands only to have him drop it, Gold is your guy. if you want just a guy at LB, then Gold is a guy.

Gold has made the most of his size, speed, and overall ability to carve out a nice career in the NFL, give him credit for that. but is he a difference maker LB in today's NFL? get serious. and this coming from a guy who wears Gold's #52 jersey every gameday.

Gold was not the only D player with the same problems last year ...could some of his problems not be with the coaching ? opps that would not be sheek and in line with dumping on Gold enjoy:sunshine:

[~Crash~]

I think the confusion stems from Winborn actually tackling players. i admit, I was confused up until your post released me from my own inane delusion.

If Gold is our starting wolb next year, I will join the telluride fan club.

well save time and buy a fire Shanny shirt....:giggle:

[Smiling Assassin27]

Gold was not the only D player with the same problems last year ...could some of his problems not be with the coaching ? opps that would not be sheek and in line with dumping on Gold enjoy:sunshine:

once again, raise your standards. elite players excel in every system, even if their stats fluctuate from position to position.

[~Crash~]

So what you are saying is we shoud cut the hole D side of the ball ? that would be kind of crazy that is why bates is gone .

[~Crash~]

Gold is not a hitter he needs to be coached that he is from now on going to be a tackler !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and he will be fine . he has gotten into a bad habit of going for the kill shot every play and he is not alone . the coaches need to put a stop to this ! it has been a Bronco problem for years now . this year it was really out there for show in bates system because there was no room for error . But you guys act like gold was the only one that sucked at a basic tackle and the joke is on you ! The whole team sucked at tackling . Well I am wrong Champ is perfect at tackling .