Don Banks Mock has Quentin Groves in the Top Ten

[-Slap-]

I've been high on Groves for a couple years now. I was hoping he would come out last year when he was still projected into the second round.

[CBF1]

Link???

[oubronco]

Link???

SI.com

[bronco militia]

thanks for the link, slap

[bronco militia]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/don_banks/01/23/mock.draft1.part2/index.html

12 OT Ryan Clady Boise State Jr. 6-6 317
With the retirement of Matt Lepsis, finding a replacement at offensive tackle rises to the top of the Broncos' need list. Clady has tremendous size, but is still nimble enough in pass coverage thanks to his quick feet.

[-Slap-]

Forgot to link it walking out the door. Thanks for hooking me up.

We drafted a very similar athlete in the first round last year, so I'm sure Groves won't be on our list anyway. He can take over a ballgame from time to time.

[broncofan]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/don_banks/01/23/mock.draft1.part2/index.html

12 OT Ryan Clady Boise State Jr. 6-6 317
With the retirement of Matt Lepsis, finding a replacement at offensive tackle rises to the top of the Broncos' need list. Clady has tremendous size, but is still nimble enough in pass coverage thanks to his quick feet.

Sounds like great qualities for the zone blocking scheme.

[bronco militia]

Sounds like great qualities for the zone blocking scheme.

It's just me, but I'd rather see Kenny Phillips in Orange and Blue.

sure we need a LT, but we also need help throughout the middle of the defense. There's not much MLB or DT talent in the 1st round, so get our safety here.

[RaiderH8r]

As much as I'd love a DT protecting the blind side of our golden boy has to be the priority right now.

[Hotrod]

It's just me, but I'd rather see Kenny Phillips in Orange and Blue.

sure we need a LT, but we also need help throughout the middle of the defense. There's not much MLB or DT talent in the 1st round, so get our safety here.

I've become sold on Phillips @12

[Drek]

It's just me, but I'd rather see Kenny Phillips in Orange and Blue.

sure we need a LT, but we also need help throughout the middle of the defense. There's not much MLB or DT talent in the 1st round, so get our safety here.

Kenny "I'm gonna make millions because I went to the same school as Ed Reed and measure up similar physically, even though I've made fewer players in my entire collegiate career than Reed used to make in a game" Phillips?

No thanks.

[bronco militia]

Kenny "I'm gonna make millions because I went to the same school as Ed Reed and measure up similar physically, even though I've made fewer players in my entire collegiate career than Reed used to make in a game" Phillips?

No thanks.


so who do you like at #12? Clady? It's tough for me to see him go this high because he played in the WAC.

[Drek]

so who do you like at #12? Clady? It's tough for me to see him go this high because he played in the WAC.

Oh NO! The WAC!

They don't play real football in the WAC or something? You'd take a guy who never produced from the ACC over a monster who dominated the WAC?

FYI, former Boise St. OL Daryn Colledge is a pretty damn good OG for the Packers at the moment. He wasn't nearly as talented or productive in his collegiate career as Clady.

And my favorite choices at #12 are Clady and Ellis. If we can't get either of them and there isn't a slider like Dorsey, either Long or McFadden we should trade down, but if that isn't an option then I'd have a second tier with Oher, Mike Jenkins, Mendehnall or Stewart, Mario Manningham, Malcom Kelly, and yes, Kenny Phillips. Taking one of them at 12 is a worst case scenario though.

[bronco militia]

Oh NO! The WAC!

They don't play real football in the WAC or something? You'd take a guy who never produced from the ACC over a monster who dominated the WAC?

FYI, former Boise St. OL Daryn Colledge is a pretty damn good OG for the Packers at the moment. He wasn't nearly as talented or productive in his collegiate career as Clady.

And my favorite choices at #12 are Clady and Ellis. If we can't get either of them and there isn't a slider like Dorsey, either Long or McFadden we should trade down, but if that isn't an option then I'd have a second tier with Oher, Mike Jenkins, Mendehnall or Stewart, Mario Manningham, Malcom Kelly, and yes, Kenny Phillips. Taking one of them at 12 is a worst case scenario though.

I don't have anything against the WAC. But you have to admit he's probably not matched up against the best talent in country from week to week.

[Paladin]

But he is not color blind.....

[Inkana7]

I don't have anything against the WAC. But you have to admit he's probably not matched up against the best talent in country from week to week.

WAC teams could contend with Big 10 or ACC teams easily.

[BroncoBuff]

Kenny "I'm gonna make millions because I went to the same school as Ed Reed and measure up similar physically, even though I've made fewer players in my entire collegiate career than Reed used to make in a game" Phillips?

No thanks.
Hey hey hey ... gimme some more on that please. You're the first Phillips naysayer I've seen around here.

[ro_50]

I've been high on Groves for a couple years now. I was hoping he would come out last year when he was still projected into the second round.

I'm a lifelong AU fan and this past year, Groves battled nagging injuries to his ankle and toes.

He actually lost playing time to Antonio Coleman, who burst onto the scene.

During the latter part of the season, Tubs and the staff actually moved Groves to LB for a bit to get him on the field.

Turns out, he ended up playing roughly 45% of the snaps during the last few games.

It was injuries that slowed him down this year and he's a great, engaging guy.

He has great burst around the corner but needs to improve his rush defense prowess.

[Drek]

Hey hey hey ... gimme some more on that please. You're the first Phillips naysayer I've seen around here.

Really? I've seen several other long timers who aren't crazy for him either.

My problem? Look at his stats.

10 passes broken up, for his entire career.

7 INTs his three entire career, who were they against? THREE of them in one game against Duke in '06, one each the past two seasons against Florida International, one against Clemson back in '05, and his crowning achievement, picking off Matt Ryan in their game against BC this year. Doesn't look like a playmaker yet.

So what did he do with those 7 picks anyways? Ed Reed, Laron Landry, Sean Taylor, all known for taking picks back to the house right? Well Phillips has returned those 7 picks for 14 yards. Combined. Seriously. I'm not joking.

So he's obviously not a playmaker when it comes to pass protection. How is he against the run? 133 solo tackles isn't too bad over 3 years I guess, but nothing to brag about. He's only had one game with double digit solo tackle totals.

He forced 3 fumbles his whole career too, all in '07. Against Oklahoma, North Carolina, and you guessed it, DUKE!

Is Kenny Phillips a great athlete? Sure. Could he be a stud safety? Probably. But he should've stayed in school. He has a lot to learn still and isn't the natural playmaker that Ed Reed and Sean Taylor were by any stretch.

He'd be great at #42, but horrible at #12 if you ask me.

[-Slap-]

I'm not real high on Phillips, either. You take a safety @ 12 there better be no doubt about him and there are definite questions surrounding Phillips, as Drek so ably articulated.

I also like Clady or Ellis @ 12. I would only be happy with Phillips that high because it meant we didn't take Rivers.

Finally, many of the best safeties tend to come off the board in the 20s or later. Atwater, Polamalu and Reed went in the 20s. Bob Sanders and Brian Dawkins went in the second round.

[wolf754life]

the pick should be clady, but i have a feeling he will workout so well that he will go in the top 10, 12 is not a good place to draft this year, the broncos need to trade down, but nobody will want to move up.........

lots of cash for another deltha-middlebrooks-lelie-foster-nash guy...........

[eddie mac]

The only reason Phillips is ranked so highly is because it's a terrible class for safeties.

If we're staying where we are at it has to be Clady or Ellis. Fills an immediate need with a blue chip player.

[Breck Bronc]

Ed Reed and Sean Taylor (rip) are two of the greatest college players I've ever watched play, let alone college safties. It's an absolute injustice that Roy Williams and Derrick Strait beat them out for the Thorpe Award in 2001 and 2003, respectively.

Kenny Phillips is not even close to the player that Reed and Taylor were and the only reason he's mentioned in the same breath is because of his high school hype and (obviously) the college he went to.

That said, I think Phillips can be one of the those players that's better in the pros than college. The Miami teams he's played on the past three years have been an absolute mess. They've been poorly coached and the players surrounding Phillips usually are way out of position, causing him to try to do everything.

I do think that it would have helped Kenny to stay in school another year, particularly since Miami just hired a respected, true defensive coordinator (Bill Young, formerly of Kansas) after firing the previous, zero experience joke of a DC that was Tim Walton. But Phillips probably would be stupid to pass up being taken in the first 15 picks of 2008. It's a catch-22.

I think we should go LT in round one and continue to build one bad-ass offense. As Slap said, very good safties can be found in the second round.

[theAPAOps5]

If Denver drafts Clady or any other OT for that matter what does that say about Ryan Harris. I am not sold on him either but isn't he supposed to be the heir apparent to Lepsis?

I Myself would rather draft Ellis because if he and Thomas pan out then by golly we have a damn fine line. Our DLine is in more need than our OLine but thats not saying much.

[elsid13]

If Denver drafts Clady or any other OT for that matter what does that say about Ryan Harris. I am not sold on him either but isn't he supposed to be the heir apparent to Lepsis? I Myself would rather draft Ellis because if he and Thomas pan out then by golly we have a damn fine line. Our DLine is in more need than our OLine but thats not saying much.

I don't think anyone said that was the heir, just that the like his talent and thought he could fit in on the line. I am stilled pissed that we didn't pick up Doug Free last year.

[theAPAOps5]

I don't think anyone said that was the heir, just that the like his talent and thought he could fit in on the line. I am stilled pissed that we didn't pick up Doug Free last year.

I thought when Lepsis announced his retirement it was stated that Harris was coming along nicely and was set to step into his role. Maybe I exaggerated the heir apparent part. Again I would still rather draft a DT or LB even. But then again Denver drafting OLineman in the first might just scare me because I still see Foster in my nightmares!

[epicSocialism4tw]

Oh NO! The WAC!

They don't play real football in the WAC or something? You'd take a guy who never produced from the ACC over a monster who dominated the WAC?

FYI, former Boise St. OL Daryn Colledge is a pretty damn good OG for the Packers at the moment. He wasn't nearly as talented or productive in his collegiate career as Clady.

And my favorite choices at #12 are Clady and Ellis. If we can't get either of them and there isn't a slider like Dorsey, either Long or McFadden we should trade down, but if that isn't an option then I'd have a second tier with Oher, Mike Jenkins, Mendehnall or Stewart, Mario Manningham, Malcom Kelly, and yes, Kenny Phillips. Taking one of them at 12 is a worst case scenario though.


Malcolm Kelly is a solid prospect, but I wouldnt take him at 12. He is very similar to the Lions' Roy Williams in style and ability, but just didnt have the production he should have with an outstanding QB at Oklahoma. I think that he'll be a nice endzone option in the NFL with the chance at becoming a great intermediate to long WR.

However, we already have what he can bring in Brandon Marshall. If anything else, we need a Terry Glenn type to clean up the mess and block downfield.

[gunns]

The only reason Phillips is ranked so highly is because it's a terrible class for safeties.


Ok, I'm going to cry now. :vermeil:

[wolf754life]

ApaOps5 (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/member.php?u=6509), come on man, wake up??

HARRIS is going to replace the SIVV on the right side, Eric Pears? the worst starting RT in the NFL? Ring a Bell???

This offense needs to rebuild completely at both Tackles, Pears is a nice backup, but not a realistic starter in this league.....

Nalen and Hamilton coming back with Claday and Harris at Tackle, with Kuper at G will be a MASSIVE upgrade compared to this year, and to top it off we will have outstanding depth with Myers, Holland, Pears as the top backups, all of which got significant experience this year....

IT HAS TO BE CLADY, and if you think he is George Foster think again.
He is not similar, 6 ft 6, 317 lbs, and this guy moves, great feet, and a much better head on his shoulders, Foster was TOO BIG for our system, DID NOT have the awareness required to play the west coast system, and could not adjust to speed rushers....

Clady is solid in the run game, and will improve, and is an elite pass blocking prospect, couple that with an extra second for JAY C, and the offense will immediately improve both short term and long term,....

[theAPAOps5]

Thats your opinion Wolf. I myself want Ellis. Although I have done more reading on Clady and actually agree with your report. I wouldn't be unhappy with him at all, I don't want to sound like I would bitch and moan if he was drafted. I mean 6'6" and 315. Fast, agile, and a beast that is exactly the lineman I would want.

[Drek]

Malcolm Kelly is a solid prospect, but I wouldnt take him at 12. He is very similar to the Lions' Roy Williams in style and ability, but just didnt have the production he should have with an outstanding QB at Oklahoma. I think that he'll be a nice endzone option in the NFL with the chance at becoming a great intermediate to long WR.

However, we already have what he can bring in Brandon Marshall. If anything else, we need a Terry Glenn type to clean up the mess and block downfield.
If we actually end up picking from the long list of third options I mentioned I might just drive to Dove Valley and light myself on fire in front of everyone the first day of camp.

They're all ok prospects, but none deserve to be the #12 overall pick.

Our best hopes at #12 is Clady/Ellis still being there or trading out to a team wanting a top 3 QB/helping someone move up higher in the draft. Its a real bitch that Otah and Laurinaitis both stayed in school. They would've basically assured us of a quality pick at #12.

[Taco John]

It will absolutely kill me if we take a Boise State Bronco as our number one pick. Swear to God...

[TheChamp24]

If we actually end up picking from the long list of third options I mentioned I might just drive to Dove Valley and light myself on fire in front of everyone the first day of camp.

They're all ok prospects, but none deserve to be the #12 overall pick.

Our best hopes at #12 is Clady/Ellis still being there or trading out to a team wanting a top 3 QB/helping someone move up higher in the draft. Its a real b**** that Otah and Laurinaitis both stayed in school. They would've basically assured us of a quality pick at #12.

Otah is a senior and is entering the draft? Are you talking about Oher?
Personally, I think we will get a good player in the 1st that will help our team.
If anybody remembers my rants about the draft last year, it was about how I hated the talk of talking a DT in the 1st round. 1st round DT's bust like crazy and I just don't like the idea of drafting one early. IMO, I would rather pass on Ellis and trade down then take him.
And I would be happy if Phillips is our guy in the 1st. I see him being a good safety in the NFL in the future and helping us out and worth a mid round pick.
I would prefer to get a franchise LT though that will protect Jay for 10+ years though, but we'll see how everything goes.
I think the best option to go if Clady is there is to take him and take a LB in round 2.

[Drek]

Otah is a senior and is entering the draft? Are you talking about Oher?
Personally, I think we will get a good player in the 1st that will help our team.
If anybody remembers my rants about the draft last year, it was about how I hated the talk of talking a DT in the 1st round. 1st round DT's bust like crazy and I just don't like the idea of drafting one early. IMO, I would rather pass on Ellis and trade down then take him.
And I would be happy if Phillips is our guy in the 1st. I see him being a good safety in the NFL in the future and helping us out and worth a mid round pick.
I would prefer to get a franchise LT though that will protect Jay for 10+ years though, but we'll see how everything goes.
I think the best option to go if Clady is there is to take him and take a LB in round 2.

Yeah, Oher, sorry ESPN temporarily had their profils swapped, names too similar. ;P

I wouldn't really have a problem taking Ellis myself. Sure first round DTs have a high bust rate, but you got to take those chances from time to time. When you do you should look at why the previous busts did so and why the successful ones worked out.

At DT there is one overwhelming factor between "bust" and "success". Its technique. So many teams draft DTs based entirely on their natural ability and the "planet theory". Is he big yet freakishly fast? Then sign him up. But D line play is all about technique and teams are grabbing up guys who just don't have good technique. Now Dorsey and Ellis both have excellent technique and fundamentals, as does Chris Long. I'd say they're the three safest DL picks we've seen in a long time and they're all in the same draft.

And I'd love Phillips in the back of the first/early second, but at #12? Its a gross overpay for a guy who is still very raw and just doesn't make plays like his talent suggests he should. Do you really want to pay a safety who might not even be up to starting his first year $4M a season? At #12 you're paying for the slot, not the position.

He's no Laron Landry or Sean Taylor, I don't see why we'd want to draft him like one hoping those skills suddenly come from nowhere.

[broncswin]

I thought when Lepsis announced his retirement it was stated that Harris was coming along nicely and was set to step into his role. Maybe I exaggerated the heir apparent part. Again I would still rather draft a DT or LB even. But then again Denver drafting OLineman in the first might just scare me because I still see Foster in my nightmares!

Exactly what I've been thinking, that would be horrible to suffer through a shiatty season and piss away the only positive thing we got out of it....the 12 pick, with another Foster. I think we should fall back into the mid 20's if we have any takers and see what is avaible there, while pocketing another second round pick.

By the way, where do our picks sit this year...?

[Drek]

[/U][/SIZE][/B]

Exactly what I've been thinking, that would be horrible to suffer through a shiatty season and piss away the only positive thing we got out of it....the 12 pick, with another Foster. I think we should fall back into the mid 20's if we have any takers and see what is avaible there, while pocketing another second round pick.

By the way, where do our picks sit this year...?

Foster was a mid-20's pick, FYI.

Clady would be a dream come true. He's a great fit for this offense, big and strong but athletic enough to be a great zone blocker, and best of all, he played for the Boise St. Broncos, wearing orange and blue. Its a great fit.

[alkemical]

Yeah i don't get the whole "Don't take an OT in the first round cuz he might be george foster II".....

Uhm, how bout we don't take a DE in the second, it might be paul toveossi II! Or, don't take a WR in the first! Don't take a CB in the first!


Sheeesh. Irrationality appears to be allot of people's permenant addresses.

[Dedhed]

My first choice would be to get Ellis, even if we have to move up to do so. If that doesn't prove feasible I would look for Clady at #12 or to move back a few spots and target Dan Connor or Kentwan Balmer.

I relly can't see us taking onyone on the offensive side of the ball until the second day. I expect Pears to back on the left side where he was better than Lepsis, and he's a much better fit with his size and ability to move in space. He struggled on the right side where his height was a liability against shorter/stronger run stopping DEs. He was very good on the left side when he took over for Lepsis in '06, and I expect he'll be back there in '08. That will leave the right side for Harris. If Nalen and Hamilton return our OL will look much better than it did this year with a 75% Matt lepsis, 2 first time starters, and Pears at a new position.

I think the first day has to be all about the defense. I don't know if Clady would step right in and start, but I think there are a couple of defensive players that would be immediate upgrades for us. Ellis, Connor, and to a lesser degree Balmer would all fit that bill.

[oubronco]

don't forget Philips

[Hoosier Bronco]

I have been watching some of the Senior Bowl stuff, and Chris Williams (OT) from Vandy looks good. I am starting to think with several holes to fill on defense we should trade down, now that a stud LB isn't there. It looks like Williams is slotted to go late in round 1. We could trade down, take him, and get an extra second this year, plus other picks to make the trade equal up. These can then be used to build up the defense (DT, LB, S).

[Rohirrim]

I have been watching some of the Senior Bowl stuff, and Chris Williams (OT) from Vandy looks good. I am starting to think with several holes to fill on defense we should trade down, now that a stud LB isn't there. It looks like Williams is slotted to go late in round 1. We could trade down, take him, and get an extra second this year, plus other picks to make the trade equal up. These can then be used to build up the defense (DT, LB, S).

I agree. There are two scenarios I'd be very happy with. Trade up and get Ellis or trade down, get some extra picks, and take Chris Williams.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Foster was a mid-20's pick, FYI.

Clady would be a dream come true. He's a great fit for this offense, big and strong but athletic enough to be a great zone blocker, and best of all, he played for the Boise St. Broncos, wearing orange and blue. Its a great fit.

I have watched Boise for the past couple of seasons and have been really impressed with their football intelligence. Most positions were filled with savvy and disciplined players.

This Clady kid is a nice prospect coming from that background, and also having been a part of one of the greatest college football games of all time on a team that could easily have been a national champion.

I would be muy muy excited if we were able to get Clady at 12.

[BoiseBluTurf]

It will absolutely kill me if we take a Boise State Bronco as our number one pick. Swear to God...


I LOVE IT!

[theAPAOps5]

Yeah i don't get the whole "Don't take an OT in the first round cuz he might be george foster II".....

Uhm, how bout we don't take a DE in the second, it might be paul toveossi II! Or, don't take a WR in the first! Don't take a CB in the first!


Sheeesh. Irrationality appears to be allot of people's permenant addresses.

I don't think we shouldn't I just have nightmares of Foster and it my knee her reaction is please God not again. In reality this OL sounds like he has all the talent.

[alkemical]

I don't think we shouldn't I just have nightmares of Foster and it my knee her reaction is please God not again. In reality this OL sounds like he has all the talent.

Yeah but foster's issues were "Foster". It wasn't that he didn't have talent, it wasn't that he couldn't play in the NFL. He's soft & lazy. I'm sorry, but until someone gets "paid", it's tough to always tell their make-up. I do think breaking that guys leg removed some drive out of him.

[DivineLegion]

we need to trade down if we dont draft Kenny Phillips

[Drek]

we need to trade down if we dont draft Kenny Phillips

Did you miss the first part of this thread?

Kenny Phillips might just be the most overrated safety to ever come out of college. Hell, he might be the most overrated defensive back to come out of college period.

He didn't do anything of note against elite competition in college, and you can't call what he did against lower level teams even padding stats, just not being quite as mediocre.

If he went back to school and worked on his game some more he'd very likely be worth a top 15 pick next year, but using #12 on him now is the equivalent of paying full price for your produce before the farmer has even harvested the crop.

[Broncoman13]

I've been high on Groves for a couple years now. I was hoping he would come out last year when he was still projected into the second round.

I've been high on Groves for a little while as well. Didn't get to see too much of him this year as the SEC coverage in Colorado isn't nearly as good as it is in Texas. I'm suprised Slap catches so many SEC games in Vegas...

At any rate, I don't see Groves as a top 10 pick but I think he'll be a very good pick for somebody in the 17-27 range. If he suprises and comes up with Will Smith type speed then a top 10 is probable... but I don't think he's gonna run in the 4.4's. I think a 4.65 would be great for him.

[ØrangeÇrush]

I've been high on Groves for a couple years now. I was hoping he would come out last year when he was still projected into the second round.

In the third and fourth quarter fo the K State game, He was unblockable. It should be pointed out that the K State QB was killing them until he twisted his ankle on a bad slide. Once he was limited in mobility Groves ate him up. He's inconsistent and seems to have motivational issues though.