9/11 mini-nuke debate continues

[mhgaffney]

Last year Dr Steven Jones found thermate residues in WTC dust which established that the WTC was brought down with explosives.

However, debate continues about the possible use of other types of explosives. In this excellent audio discussion Dr Bill Deagle and Dr Steven Jones discuss plans to test WTC steel samples for neutron activation, which would be expected in the event that micro nukes were used on 9/11.

Nuclear explosions involve a neutron burst that causes permanent changes in the nucleus of many elements. Some of the products are radioactive -- while others are stable. A positive test would prove conclusively that nukes were used.

To date, all tests have been negative. But not enough samples have been tested to rule out the use of nukes.

This extremely interesting discussion occurred at a recent 9/11 truth conference.

http://www.checktheevidence.com/audio/911/Prof%20Steve%20Jones%20&%20Dr%20Bill%20Deagle%20on%20WTC%20Destruction%20-%20Vancouver%20-%2024%20Jun%202007.mp3

[alkemical]

MHG, i'm going to be 'dead' honest with ya

IF there was anything like red mercury (which supposedly the nazi's had developed) used, or 'mini-nukes' - any clear concise evidence will never really reach the light of day.

I mean, right now we are in the middle of an orange alignment - and it appears the lodges are not very happy with each other at the moment.

[mhgaffney]

No you are wrong Clav.

Sooner or later the technology will find a way out. You will recall back in 1991 how at the start of Desert Storm they unveiled an entire fleet of stealth fighters and bombers -- all invisible to radar.

The B-1 came straight out of science fiction into the real world.

Keep your eye peeled. In May 2008 a physicist, Paul LaViolett PhD, will release a new book THE SECRETS OF ANTI GRAVITY PROPULSION. in which he will present evidence that the US military has anti gravity technology -- and in fact has had it for many years. LaViolette is both a physicist and an astronomer. I've read two of his books -- both brilliant. The guy is a genius -- not a kook.

All of the idiots on this board who say the government can't keep secrets are wrong. They have done it many times -- and the biggest secrets have yet to come out. This one could save the planet -- by allowing us to generate an abundance of clean energy -- and escape the oil paradigm

But it's up to us to break down the doors and make it happen. MHG

[loborugger]

9/11 mini-nuke debate continues

Thats only cuz you keep bringing it up...

[alkemical]

No you are wrong Clav.

Sooner or later the technology will find a way out. You will recall back in 1991 how at the start of Desert Storm they unveiled an entire fleet of stealth fighters and bombers -- all invisible to radar.

The B-1 came straight out of science fiction into the real world.

Keep your eye peeled. In May 2008 a physicist, Paul LaViolett PhD, will release a new book THE SECRETS OF ANTI GRAVITY PROPULSION. in which he will present evidence that the US military has anti gravity technology -- and in fact has had it for many years. LaViolette is both a physicist and an astronomer. I've read two of his books -- both brilliant. The guy is a genius -- not a kook.

All of the idiots on this board who say the government can't keep secrets are wrong. They have done it many times -- and the biggest secrets have yet to come out. This one could save the planet -- by allowing us to generate an abundance of clean energy -- and escape the oil paradigm

But it's up to us to break down the doors and make it happen. MHG



Actually i think you are pretty wrong on this. Maybe LaViolette will end up committing suicide with two bulletholes in his head, or have his wrists cut like kelly....

[TDmvp]

stop wasting bandwidth with this lame a$$ crap .... try the daily kos seems more your speed ...

[orangeatheist]

In other Gaffney news:

Bigfoot Found On Mars

Moon Landings Faked

Jet Contrails Actually Mind-Control Substance

Bush Smart Enough to Plant Mini-Nukes But Too Dumb to Plant WMDs

JFK Killed By More Than One Assassin

[alkemical]

Well, contrails are an unknown.... Besides HAARP could be used to activate the chemical once it's put in the air....

I think several groups were after JFK.... Just "one" of them got the job done.

[Hotrod]

Well, contrails are an unknown.... Besides HAARP could be used to activate the chemical once it's put in the air....

I think several groups were after JFK.... Just "one" of them got the job done.

I noticed you stayed away from Big foot found on mars :)

[alkemical]

I noticed you stayed away from Big foot found on mars :)

It's because i'm really undecided about bigfoot, and i thought the nasa photo was a rock.

[TDmvp]

In other Gaffney news:

Bigfoot Found On Mars

Moon Landings Faked

Jet Contrails Actually Mind-Control Substance

Bush Smart Enough to Plant Mini-Nukes But Too Dumb to Plant WMDs

JFK Killed By More Than One Assassin

post of the day

[Rohirrim]

What does sasquatch eat?

[TheDave]

As stupid as this subject is... I'm not sure what is worse, this or the Ron Paul gold standard types.

At least 95% of the population knows Gaffney is a nut...

[Bronco Bob]

It's because i'm really undecided about bigfoot, and i thought the nasa photo was a rock.

Besides, considering that rock on mars is only a few inches tall,
it would be a tinyfoot, not a bigfoot.

[Bronco Bob]

9/11 mini-nuke debate continues

Thats only cuz you keep bringing it up...

It's not really even a debate. It's just Gaffney posting nutty ideas
and the rest of us poking him with sticks.

[The Lone Bolt]

It's not really even a debate. It's just Gaffney posting nutty ideas
and the rest of us poking him with sticks.

Dude! Mini-nukes is why I keep coming back here!;D I have to get my daily dose of Gaffney's wacky theories!

[TheDave]

Dude! Mini-nukes is why I keep coming back here!;D I have to get my daily dose of Gaffney's wacky theories!


As much of a laugh as i get out of Gaff's ideas... the best ever was a thread about the "Moon landing Hoax". there was a poll attached to it and sadly 25-30% of the folks on the mane agreed that it was a hoax.

Guess people are just hard wired to believe in some goofy things...

[alkemical]

You know dave, i had heard an interesting thing... The moon landing wasn't fake, but it's possible some of the pictures are. That was interesting.

[Breaker]

In other Gaffney news:

Bigfoot Found On Mars

Moon Landings Faked

Jet Contrails Actually Mind-Control Substance

Bush Smart Enough to Plant Mini-Nukes But Too Dumb to Plant WMDs

JFK Killed By More Than One Assassin

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[mhgaffney]

What a bunch of morons.

Notice the aversion of any factual discussion, the flight into fantasy, away from evidence and issues.

Surely this is the signal red flag telling us that psychological denial is ongoing.

We live in the most propagandized nation on the planet. The free press is great for those who happen to own one.

It was Gobbels who said something to the effect that the leaders will set the policy and use the media to brainwash the people into supporting it.

The posts on this board prove the Nazi principle.

[Hotrod]

What a bunch of morons.

Notice the aversion of any factual discussion, the flight into fantasy, away from evidence and issues.

Surely this is the signal red flag telling us that psychological denial is ongoing.

We live in the most propagandized nation on the planet. The free press is great for those who happen to own one.

It was Gobbels who said something to the effect that the leaders will set the policy and use the media to brainwash the people into supporting it.

The posts on this board prove the Nazi principle.

LOL

Yep everyone here is nuts execpt you. Keep up the good work Ha!

[mhgaffney]

here is the link to the Steven Jones paper in which he presents the evidence for explosives. One day it will be judged to be of historic importance.

Gee -- I forgot. The morons on this board don't read papers.

I'll be fair anyway -- and give everyone the benefit of the doubt -- so here's the link in case you haven't seen it:

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/JonesWTC911SciMethod.pdf

[Bronco Bob]

What a bunch of morons.

Notice the aversion of any factual discussion, the flight into fantasy, away from evidence and issues.

Surely this is the signal red flag telling us that psychological denial is ongoing.

We live in the most propagandized nation on the planet. The free press is great for those who happen to own one.

It was Gobbels who said something to the effect that the leaders will set the policy and use the media to brainwash the people into supporting it.

The posts on this board prove the Nazi principle.

:poke:



.

[Rohirrim]

What a bunch of morons.

Notice the aversion of any factual discussion, the flight into fantasy, away from evidence and issues.

Surely this is the signal red flag telling us that psychological denial is ongoing.

We live in the most propagandized nation on the planet. The free press is great for those who happen to own one.

It was Gobbels who said something to the effect that the leaders will set the policy and use the media to brainwash the people into supporting it.

The posts on this board prove the Nazi principle.

Do you know what a sasquatch eats?

[baja]

post of the day

Three of these are true. Guess which three.

[mhgaffney]

Why not post of the week?

Surely the hard evidence that 9/11 was an inside job is the story of the decade.

[TheDave]

Why not post of the week?

Surely the hard evidence that 9/11 was an inside job is the fantasy of the decade.

Fixed it for ya' :thumbs:

[baja]

Hang in there Mark and keep posting I like reading your stuff.

Is that Smoky and the Bandit she is watching, must be Spider's ex.

[Bronco Bob]

Hang in there Mark and keep posting I like reading your stuff.

Is that Smoky and the Bandit she is watching, must be Spider's ex.

It's Bildo O'Reilly.

[mhgaffney]

The evidence for explosives assembled by Dr Jones will stand up in a court of law. That's how robust it is. Just like your fingerprint on a door knob is physical evidence and would stand up in a court -- so too with the residues of explosives. They are like a finger print in that way.

[SoCalBronco]

Gaff always reminds me of that scene from Star Trek IV whenever I start reading his stuff. I feel like that glass plant owner who thinks Scotty is a nutjob because he starts trying to communicate with the old 80s computer by talking to the mouse.

http://www.zuschlogin.com/content/blogimages/scotty_trek4.jpg

"Computer.......Hello Computer"

"uhh....just use the keyboard.."

"The keyboard? How quaint"

Just use the keyboard, Gaff.

[mhgaffney]

Here's the forthcoming book by LaViolette. You can check it out for yourself.

http://www.innertraditions.com/Product.jmdx?action=displayDetail&id=3573&searchString=1-59143-078-X

I won't pre-judge this. It could turn out to be nonsense. I have not seen the book yet because it has not been released.

However, judging from LaViolette's past work -- I'd say that is very unlikely.

His book GENESIS OF THE COSMOS was mind boggling. If you know any thing about Egyptology you know that in the early 18th century Champollion decoded the Rosetta stone -- which made the ancient heiroglyphic language intelligible. But LaViolette did Champollion one better: He decoded the entire Egyptian religion -- and showed that it was not pagan and not about religion at all - in fact -- it was about physics -- and very advanced physics, I might add. This explains the construction of many of the ancient temples, such as the incredible Oseirion at Abydos, which was built 40 feet below the desert at the level of the water table. No one has ever explained how the ancients the foundation of this temple, which consists of 100 ton slabs and goes down 25 feet to solid bedrock.

The ancient temples embodied concepts of physics. We are talking here about a cosmic paradigm of sweeping proportions.

The Egyptians also had an advanced astronomy to match the physics, as another physicist, Thomas Brophy, showed in his amazing book THE ORIGIN MAP, which decided the ancient megaliths of Nabta Playa, located in southern Egypt. This site was only discovered -- by chance -- in the 1970s. The megaliths date to 10,000 BC or earlier and were lined up with the stars. Brophy showed that the ancient Egyptians had an astronomy maybe as advanced as our own. They knew about the galactic center and even about other galazies. But how could they know this -- with no telescopes? This is the BIG question.

I did a paper on this BTW which was the feature article in ATLANTIS RISING magazine in January-Feb 2006. You can download it if interested.

But of course Bronco Bob and the other Howdy Doody clowns on this board can't go there because they simply don't have the mind-reach for this kind of amazing material. But here's the link anyway:
http://www.gnosticsecrets.com/pages/nabta_playa.htm

It's our past -- and since past is prologue -- it's also our future.
MHG

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The evidence for explosives assembled by Dr Jones will stand up in a court of law. That's how robust it is. Just like your fingerprint on a door knob is physical evidence and would stand up in a court -- so too with the residues of explosives. They are like a finger print in that way.

That is correct.

It's abundantly clear that those who believe the official account are far less likely to persuaded by evidence than by emotion and group-think.

[alkemical]

Do you know what a sasquatch eats?

kumquats

[alkemical]

http://csicop.org/si/2007-05/volkay.html

Is This Article on Conspiracies Part of a Conspiracy?
In the world of conspiracies, Elvis is alive, Paul McCartney is dead, and the government that couldn’t prevent the 9/11 attacks continues masterminding elaborate, highly complex schemes.

[mhgaffney]

LABF:

We will have to present the evidence in an international tribunal. First.

Of course, most of the world already knows 911 was an inside job. But the world will welcome the evidence -- nonetheless -- and eventually perhaps the truth will percolate through the layers of denial -- here at home.

How sad that no court in America will hear the case -- Our nation has been locked down despite the free press -- and today exists in a weird kind of time and space warp.

It's unlike anything we have ever seen in history. Like yet unlike Nazi Germany. Like yet unlike the Stalin years. Unfreedom in a state of freedom. How weird.

The current crop of media meastros have put all of the propagandists of the past to shame -- The Nazi Goebbels was a rank amateur by comparison.

They want Americans to beg for the chip to be implanted in their arms. They want Americans to beg for dictatorship. Indeed -- to demand it.

That would be the crowning achievement for the uniquely American form of tyranny and group think --- just as Orwell predicted, if you will recall the final chapters of 1984.

[Bronco Bob]

kumquats

I used to have a little kumquat bush in a whiskey barrel planter.
Unfortunately I forgot and left it outside on a night there was
a freeze and it died.

[mhgaffney]

Clav,

Please answer me this Q. Why do you revel in obscurity? Why do your posts always muddle things rather than inject clarity? At the best -- you are ambiguous. Why so?

Don't you think we already have enough muddy water in America these days?

IMO we need clarity -- a beam of light -- not more of the same old sh*t.

Just one man's opinion.

[mhgaffney]

I used to have a little kumquat bush in a whiskey barrel planter.
Unfortunately I forgot and left it outside on a night there was
a freeze and it died.

Just like I said.

hahahhahahahahaha.....!

[Bronco Bob]

http://csicop.org/si/2007-05/volkay.html

Is This Article on Conspiracies Part of a Conspiracy?
In the world of conspiracies, Elvis is alive, Paul McCartney is dead, and the government that couldn’t prevent the 9/11 attacks continues masterminding elaborate, highly complex schemes.

Great read. Thanks for the link.

[Rohirrim]

I used to have a little kumquat bush in a whiskey barrel planter.
Unfortunately I forgot and left it outside on a night there was
a freeze and it died.

Good thing that bush died before it drew any sasquatch's.

[Bronco Bob]

Just like I said.

hahahhahahahahaha.....!

:deadhorse

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

How sad that no court in America will hear the case -- Our nation has been locked down despite the free press -- and today exists in a weird kind of time and space warp.

Yep.

It doesn't help that the courts are stacked with BushCo cronies who cover the boy king's flank and make sure even the smallest of Dubya's crimes - let alone the big ones like 9/11 - go unpunished.

[alkemical]

Clav,

Please answer me this Q. Why do you revel in obscurity? Why do your posts always muddle things rather than inject clarity? At the best -- you are ambiguous. Why so?

Don't you think we already have enough muddy water in America these days?

IMO we need clarity -- a beam of light -- not more of the same old sh*t.

Just one man's opinion.



It's not myself that muddies the waters MHG..... Your bring up every distraction story to 9/11. I don't believe the official 9/11 story, however; your methods and nature detract from any serious call for inquiry for what really happened on 9/11. Your sales pitch fails what you wish to accomplish.

You know, i like richard hoagland's work - but i think he jumps to conclusions.

Just something to think about.

[baja]

LABF:

We will have to present the evidence in an international tribunal. First.

Of course, most of the world already knows 911 was an inside job. But the world will welcome the evidence -- nonetheless -- and eventually perhaps the truth will percolate through the layers of denial -- here at home.

How sad that no court in America will hear the case -- Our nation has been locked down despite the free press -- and today exists in a weird kind of time and space warp.

It's unlike anything we have ever seen in history. Like yet unlike Nazi Germany. Like yet unlike the Stalin years. Unfreedom in a state of freedom. How weird.

<b>The current crop of media meastros have put all of the propagandists of the past to shame -- The Nazi Goebbels was a rank amateur by comparison.</b>

They want Americans to beg for the chip to be implanted in their arms. They want Americans to beg for dictatorship. Indeed -- to demand it.

That would be the crowning achievement for the uniquely American form of tyranny and group think --- just as Orwell predicted, if you will recall the final chapters of 1984.

That's because it's in the mandatory vaccinations Mark,it's in the vaccinations! That is where the mind control is born.

[TheDave]

That's because it's in the mandatory vaccinations Mark,it's in the vaccinations! That is where the mind control is born.

You messin' with me here...right?

[Bronco Bob]

That's because it's in the mandatory vaccinations Mark,it's in the vaccinations! That is where the mind control is born.

That reminds me. I saw an article on TV where it said older American need
to get vaccinated for cervical cancer. So I need to make an appointment
with my doctor.

[baja]

You have a cervix BB

[Bronco Bob]

You have a cervix BB

I guess so. I'm an older American. :flower:

[SoCalBronco]

I guess so. I'm an older American. :flower:

That's surprising.

I actually thought you were a pretty young fellow, Mr. Bronco Bob...from the video, you look like you are around 20 or so. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLSWudoqtWE

ROFL!

[baja]

ha ha....

[Florida_Bronco]

I can't believe this stuff is being posted again. I mean there is absurd...really absurd...and then you have Gaff's theories.

[Bronco Bob]

Gaff is a good litmus test. If he says it, it's probably wrong.

[Bronco Bob]

That's surprising.

I actually thought you were a pretty young fellow, Mr. Bronco Bob...from the video, you look like you are around 20 or so. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLSWudoqtWE

ROFL!

I like this one more.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-Sudw4ghVe8&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-Sudw4ghVe8&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[mhgaffney]

It's not myself that muddies the waters MHG..... Your bring up every distraction story to 9/11. I don't believe the official 9/11 story, however; your methods and nature detract from any serious call for inquiry for what really happened on 9/11. Your sales pitch fails what you wish to accomplish.

You know, i like richard hoagland's work - but i think he jumps to conclusions.

Just something to think about.

Oh please. I post serious research papers -- fully footnoted. And am in no way present in these papers. I remain in the background for a very good reason. 9/11 has never been about MhGaffney. It's always been about facts and issues.

I have challenged this board time and again to disect my papers -- forget about me -- and expose errors. I give credit where due. Maybe three times in the last year someone has revealed errors and I have acknowledged this and thanked the individuals.

But this is the rare exception. 99.99% of the time my posted papers go unread -- because the folks in here are a bunch of Howdy Doody clowns. Nearly all of the posts on this board are total BS - nothing more than asshole sphincters flapping in the breeze. As the saying goes -- Opinions are as common as A-holes. Everyone has one.

And you, Clav, are no different than the other bozos on the board. You prefer to post drive by opinions on every subject under the sun -- rather than do serious research in a focused way.

My book on 9/11 has been in the works for more than a year and it will be released next summer. We will see then who is talking serious reality and who is a clown.

FYI, the title will be:

THE 911 MYSTERY PLANE
and the VANISHING of America
MHG

[Spider]

I like this one more.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-Sudw4ghVe8&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-Sudw4ghVe8&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
I would hit that

[Florida_Bronco]

Oh please. I post serious research papers -- fully footnoted. And am in no way present in these papers. I remain in the background for a very good reason. 9/11 has never been about MhGaffney. It's always been about facts and issues.

I have challenged this board time and again to disect my papers -- forget about me -- and expose errors. I give credit where due. Maybe three times in the last year someone has revealed errors and I have acknowledged this and thanked the individuals.

But this is the rare exception. 99.99% of the time my posted papers go unread -- because the folks in here are a bunch of Howdy Doody clowns. Nearly all of the posts on this board are total BS - nothing more than a-hole sphincters flapping in the breeze. As the saying goes -- Opinions are as common as A-holes. Everyone has one.

And you, Clav, are no different than the other bozos on the board. You prefer to post drive by opinions on every subject under the sun -- rather than do serious research in a focused way.

My book on 9/11 has been in the works for more than a year and it will be released next summer. We will see then who is talking serious reality and who is a clown.

FYI, the title will be:

THE 911 MYSTERY PLANE
and the VANISHING of America
MHG

That's because you post some of the most outrageously absurd crap I've ever seen. I mean cmon...mini nukes? Give me a flippin' break.

[Spider]

Oh please. I post serious research papers -- fully footnoted. And am in no way present in these papers. I remain in the background for a very good reason. 9/11 has never been about MhGaffney. It's always been about facts and issues.

I have challenged this board time and again to disect my papers -- forget about me -- and expose errors. I give credit where due. Maybe three times in the last year someone has revealed errors and I have acknowledged this and thanked the individuals.

But this is the rare exception. 99.99% of the time my posted papers go unread -- because the folks in here are a bunch of Howdy Doody clowns. Nearly all of the posts on this board are total BS - nothing more than a-hole sphincters flapping in the breeze. As the saying goes -- Opinions are as common as A-holes. Everyone has one.

And you, Clav, are no different than the other bozos on the board. You prefer to post drive by opinions on every subject under the sun -- rather than do serious research in a focused way.

My book on 9/11 has been in the works for more than a year and it will be released next summer. We will see then who is talking serious reality and who is a clown.

FYI, the title will be:

THE 911 MYSTERY PLANE
and the VANISHING of America
MHG

Ya know Gaff , I dont believe the governments story , but I have more disbelief in youres ......

[REB]

Oh please. I post serious research papers -- fully footnoted. And am in no way present in these papers. I remain in the background for a very good reason. 9/11 has never been about MhGaffney. It's always been about facts and issues.

I have challenged this board time and again to disect my papers -- forget about me -- and expose errors. I give credit where due. Maybe three times in the last year someone has revealed errors and I have acknowledged this and thanked the individuals.

But this is the rare exception. 99.99% of the time my posted papers go unread -- because the folks in here are a bunch of Howdy Doody clowns. Nearly all of the posts on this board are total BS - nothing more than a-hole sphincters flapping in the breeze. As the saying goes -- Opinions are as common as A-holes. Everyone has one.

And you, Clav, are no different than the other bozos on the board. You prefer to post drive by opinions on every subject under the sun -- rather than do serious research in a focused way.

My book on 9/11 has been in the works for more than a year and it will be released next summer. We will see then who is talking serious reality and who is a clown.

FYI, the title will be:

THE 911 MYSTERY PLANE
and the VANISHING of America
MHG


That's it Gaff! Go all 5th grade on dere azz! ROFL! Yea that'll make people want to read your stuff and take you seriously.

[Rohirrim]

That's it Gaff! Go all 5th grade on dere azz! ROFL! Yea that'll make people want to read your stuff and take you seriously.

I see that Gaff is trying to win us over with his charm again. :clown:

[REB]

I see that Gaff is trying to win us over with his charm again. :clown:


Oh he's nothing if not charming :~ohyah!:

[Bronco Bob]

I see that Gaff is trying to win us over with his charm again. :clown:

Gaff's sort of the Barney Fife of the OM. He has all these crazy ideas
he is totally convinced are true. Then he gets all fanatical about them,
his arms start waving about and his eyes bug out and his face turns red.
And he thinks everyone else is a fool for not going along with him.
Meanwhile everyone else is just standing around laughing at him,
and even his best friend secretly knows he's a nut, but just humors
him along. When ever I see a post by Gaffney, I envisions Barney
Fife saying it, and it makes it all the more funny.

[mhgaffney]

Hey Guys,

I have made it clear many times that I welcome criticism. I can take a hit. A writer's best friend is a helpful critic.

I also understand skepticism -- being one myself.

And I sympathize with people struggling to make sense of 9/11 - having gone through the process myself of peeling away numerous layers of denial. It's tough to face the truth squarely.

But there' something ELSE going on in here -- on this board -- that I have no patience for. In a word it's the colossal HUBRIS I see on so many of the posts In fact, this is America's problem in the world today. Your colossal arrogance merely reflects America's drive for world domination.

This kind of arrogance knows no bounds and is rivaled only by your ignorance on key issues -- especially US foreign policy.

Shock therapy? Yes, indeed, this is needed.

Remember, the writer's job to speak the painful truths that no body wants to face. That's how writers serve the common good -- and that's where I'm coming from.

Writing is hard work. It's not a popularity contest. I will relish watching you clowns eat your own words -- after my book hits the best seller list.

Cheers, MHG

[Spider]

Hey Guys,

I have made it clear many times that I welcome criticism. I can take a hit. A writer's best friend is a helpful critic.

I also understand skepticism -- being one myself.

And I sympathize with people struggling to make sense of 9/11 - having gone through the process myself of peeling away numerous layers of denial. It's tough to face the truth squarely.

But there' something ELSE going on in here -- on this board -- that I have no patience for. In a word it's the colossal HUBRIS I see on so many of the posts In fact, this is America's problem in the world today. Your colossal arrogance merely reflects America's drive for world domination.

This kind of arrogance knows no bounds and is rivaled only by your ignorance on key issues -- especially US foreign policy.

Shock therapy? Yes, indeed, this is needed.

Remember, the writer's job to speak the painful truths that no body wants to face. That's how writers serve the common good -- and that's where I'm coming from.

Writing is hard work. It's not a popularity contest. I will relish watching you clowns eat your own words -- after my book hits the best seller list.

Cheers, MHG

hm what in the hell does our so called arrogance have to do with us believing Mini nukes were used on the WTC ?
what you dont seem to grasp is , majority of us think the government is full of **** , but then alot of think you are also ....

[baja]

Mark I sincerely hope your book hits the best seller list but I think what you find here you will also find in the general population, probably more so.

Is there any way I can have a read of your manuscript, I wouldn't mind paying for the privilege.

BTW I wish you could refrain from the name calling as that just serves to further polarize you from the very people you are trying to educate.

[alkemical]

Oh please. I post serious research papers -- fully footnoted. And am in no way present in these papers. I remain in the background for a very good reason. 9/11 has never been about MhGaffney. It's always been about facts and issues.

I have challenged this board time and again to disect my papers -- forget about me -- and expose errors. I give credit where due. Maybe three times in the last year someone has revealed errors and I have acknowledged this and thanked the individuals.

But this is the rare exception. 99.99% of the time my posted papers go unread -- because the folks in here are a bunch of Howdy Doody clowns. Nearly all of the posts on this board are total BS - nothing more than a-hole sphincters flapping in the breeze. As the saying goes -- Opinions are as common as A-holes. Everyone has one.

And you, Clav, are no different than the other bozos on the board. You prefer to post drive by opinions on every subject under the sun -- rather than do serious research in a focused way.

My book on 9/11 has been in the works for more than a year and it will be released next summer. We will see then who is talking serious reality and who is a clown.

FYI, the title will be:

THE 911 MYSTERY PLANE
and the VANISHING of America
MHG



Ah yes, thanks again for proving me right in my constructive criticism. :)

[W*GS]

But there' something ELSE going on in here -- on this board -- that I have no patience for. In a word it's the colossal HUBRIS I see on so many of the posts[...]
I will relish watching you clowns eat your own words -- after my book hits the best seller list.

The two sentences above contradict each other.

If anyone here is insufferably arrogant and hubristic, gaffney, it's you.

[Rohirrim]

Hey Guys,

I have made it clear many times that I welcome criticism. I can take a hit. A writer's best friend is a helpful critic.

I also understand skepticism -- being one myself.

And I sympathize with people struggling to make sense of 9/11 - having gone through the process myself of peeling away numerous layers of denial. It's tough to face the truth squarely.

But there' something ELSE going on in here -- on this board -- that I have no patience for. In a word it's the colossal HUBRIS I see on so many of the posts In fact, this is America's problem in the world today. Your colossal arrogance merely reflects America's drive for world domination.

This kind of arrogance knows no bounds and is rivaled only by your ignorance on key issues -- especially US foreign policy.

Shock therapy? Yes, indeed, this is needed.

Remember, the writer's job to speak the painful truths that no body wants to face. That's how writers serve the common good -- and that's where I'm coming from.

Writing is hard work. It's not a popularity contest. I will relish watching you clowns eat your own words -- after my book hits the best seller list.

Cheers, MHG

And it is you fringe conspiracists who deflect attention away from the true crimes of the Bush administration by constantly waving your red flags at the American people. Look at how your kind help marginalize the ideas of the Ron Paul campaign by constantly attaching your bat **** selves (falsely) to him? The media then grab the connection and the people are drawn to false alarm after false alarm until finally they can no longer respond when the alarm is true. Speaking of clowns, isn't that what a clown does? He distracts the bull away from the fallen rider by dancing around in a silly costume? If you ask me, I'd say the effect of your conspiracy garbage actually helps to protect the Bush administration from real inquiry.

[mhgaffney]

It's Howdy Doody Time in America!

by MHGaffney


A herd of anal sphincters

flapping in a lovely breeze,

macho to the nth degree, yet dissemblers

and wafflers every one, blind to the relativity of size,

each obsessed with his own “junk”

down under, yet driven to take comfort in numbers,

at bottom: just a bunch of good old boys

who ridicule for fear of the dark.



If I had but one thin dime

for every cheap one liner, for every bozo on this board,

for every drive by shooter, for every vacant thread,

there’d be pearls enough for swine!



What a cacaphony!

It’s knee jerk time in la la land.

With pyramids of paper far as the eye can see

and now looming: the faint rush of one hand

yapping, oh great Nada. The end is nigh. (Think eternity.)



One day soon, yes, when the word comes down

it will be obvious, finally,

who among us has been talking reality

and who is the Howdy Doody clown.

[mhgaffney]

And it is you fringe conspiracists who deflect attention away from the true crimes of the Bush administration by constantly waving your red flags at the American people. Look at how your kind help marginalize the ideas of the Ron Paul campaign by constantly attaching your bat **** selves (falsely) to him? The media then grab the connection and the people are drawn to false alarm after false alarm until finally they can no longer respond when the alarm is true. Speaking of clowns, isn't that what a clown does? He distracts the bull away from the fallen rider by dancing around in a silly costume? If you ask me, I'd say the effect of your conspiracy garbage actually helps to protect the Bush administration from real inquiry.

No. You are NOT being honest. We are ALL conspiracy theorists since 911. If you accept the official thread then you too are a conspiracy theorist. Your denial of this fact shows you have not faced the issue squarely.

My detailed and fully footnoted papers stand on their own legs. I am not present in this analysis. It speaks for itself. It is not about me.

Sure I rant on this board -- but this is only because of the ridicule factor -- which drowns out every attempt at a reasoned argument. Somehow you must find the courage to examine the official story -- do that and you will soon discover it is a tissue of lies.

The world does not end at the US border. Recently a member of the Japanese parliament demanded and was granted a debate about 911 on the floor of that democratic body. Pointed questions were raised -- and the US stoolie who was present had no answers. Zip. Japan is waking up to 911.

A major election will occur in Japan in a few months and from what I understand a populist grass roots majority is going to win -- for the first time ever. There will be BIG changes -- given that Japan is a major US creditor.

The truth is slowly emerging and the US government will not be able to stop it. The world has had it with America's penchant for violence and war fare -- oil theft and mass murder. etc etc

All of this was based on 911. It is at the root of our occupation of Iraq and Afgahistan. This makes the truth about 911 of primary importance -- not as you say -- a distraction.

If we fail to hold our leaders accountable for this heinous crime then we will inherit the wind. And by this I mean a future more horrible than we can contemplate. MHG

[mhgaffney]

Mark I sincerely hope your book hits the best seller list but I think what you find here you will also find in the general population, probably more so.

Is there any way I can have a read of your manuscript, I wouldn't mind paying for the privilege.

BTW I wish you could refrain from the name calling as that just serves to further polarize you from the very people you are trying to educate.

Sure.

Send me a personal message -- and I'll get back'atcha. MHG

[elsid13]

I would hit that

Well according to that song, she don't play with in our league.

[TheDave]

Mark I sincerely hope your book hits the best seller list...

The day i wake up and see a Gaffney 9/11 Book on the NYT best seller list, is the same day i move to Canada.

[Spider]

Well according to that song, she don't play with in our league.

as if that matters to me ;D

[elsid13]

as if that matters to me ;D

I keep forgetting that you would "hit" another species, why would a young lady sexual orientation stop you.

[elsid13]

The day i wake up and see a Gaffney 9/11 Book on the NYT best seller list, is the same day i move to Canada.

To darn cold, I moving south like to Brazil.

[Spider]

The day i wake up and see a Gaffney 9/11 Book on the NYT best seller list, is the same day i move to Canada.

Jump I 25 North to exit 210 in wyoming , follow North to 387 , take a left at the junction store ( go through edgerton wy , 38 miles to 59 North , take a left on 59 , follow for 52 miles to Gillette wy , go through Gillette to the Air port , take a right , 89 miles to Broadus Montana Hyway 212 .take a left , go to broadus to the red light ( believe me the bastard will be red ) take a left , 2 miles turn right onto 59 N for 77 miles to Miles city Montana ( I 94) , take a right on to 94 ( heading east) 74 miles to Glendive Mt . exit 213 ... turn left onto highway 16 follow untill you reach Canada ......... ;D

[Spider]

PS cool ass little store in Biddle mt .10 miles north of the state line , even has locals sitting around talking ... drop in ;D
yo uwill have fuel stops about every 50 miles untill you get north of Casper , so watch your fuel .... you can stop at the Junction store in Midwest wy, or Edgerton , last fuel stops until you get to Gillette ( there is one in Wright Wy but it is 18 miles east of 59 cut off ) ;D when you leave Sydney MT , make sure you have plenty of fuel

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If we fail to hold our leaders accountable for this heinous crime then we will inherit the wind. And by this I mean a future more horrible than we can contemplate. MHG

Bingo.

We're in the mess we're in today because Clinton, et al, allowed these thugs to live to fight another day when they were under investigation for all the crimes they committed last time they were in power.

If we let them slip through the net again then it's just going to further embolden them to continue accelerating their agenda.

[W*GS]

We're in the mess we're in today because Clinton, et al, allowed these thugs to live to fight another day [...]

Thanks for confessing to Clinton's inaction in light of the acts of war committed by al-Qaeda against us on his watch.

[Bronco Bob]

Thanks for confessing to Clinton's inaction in light of the acts of war committed by al-Qaeda against us on his watch.

I think LABF was referring to Reagan and his cronies.

[W*GS]

I know that - but his comments apply equally well to Clinton's inaction against al-Qaeda.

[mhgaffney]

You don't have to dig very deep to expose large problems with the official 9/11 narrative.

Many of you will recall that some time back I questioned the fact that none of the 19 alleged hijackers' names appear on the flight manifests. But various of you poopooed this to death. I was willing to grant that maybe just maybe the government left the names off the manifests for some reason.

But now it turns out that the Arab names do not appear on the autopsy list either. This was confirmed some time ago by a former Naval officer - an MD who did a FOIA and received the autopsy list. You can examine it yourselves at the site below. This can only mean there were no remains of the hijackers found.

Maybe one of you smart guys can explain this sticky little problem. It's a shocker. Because if you don't have remains then you don't have hijackers either. No hijakers?

BTW, this is the only site where this information is posted - to my knowledge. It took me an hour of searching to find it. It's looking more and more like the perpetrators used remote control. This was the MD's conclusion.

Check it out -- and BTW please try to keep the ridicule level down to a low roar so the rest of us in here can think.

MHG

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/03/313698.shtml

[W*GS]

Bugger off, gaffney.

There's nothing you've ever presented that hasn't been shown, in short order, to be full of ****.

Your song-n-dance will be more appreciated elsewhere.

[Spider]

Bugger off, gaffney.

There's nothing you've ever presented that hasn't been shown, in short order, to be full of ****.

Your song-n-dance will be more appreciated elsewhere.

Pretty vicious for a weatherman

[Bronco Bob]

I know that - but his comments apply equally well to Clinton's inaction against al-Qaeda.

Clinton was doing far more about al-Queda than Bush did prior to 9-11-2001.
It was Bush negligence that played a roll in allowing 9-11-2001 to happen.
Bush was on vacation the whole month of August 2001. So it wasn't
as if al-Queda was a top priority for Bush.

[W*GS]

Clinton was doing far more about al-Queda than Bush did prior to 9-11-2001.

Clinton and his team held a lot of meetings and created a blizzard of memos, true. As for actually taking al-Qaeda's war on us to them, not so much.

It was Bush negligence that played a roll in allowing 9-11-2001 to happen.

Did I say Bush was blameless? Clinton bears a fair share too - he had 8 years to do something (as opposed to talk) about al-Qaeda, and he dropped the ball.

Bush was on vacation the whole month of August 2001. So it wasn't as if al-Queda was a top priority for Bush.

Of course. That still doesn't exonerate Clinton.

[Rohirrim]

I agree with Ron Paul. The 911 Commission was an insufficient investigation. But it was not insufficient because it was hiding some giant conspiracy. Like Ron Paul said, "It did what all government investigations do. It hid the ineptness and incompetence of the government."

The American people are sheep. They still have not demanded to know, not why 911 happened (we already know that), but HOW it happened. Instead, they get tied up with the lunatic fringe of Gaffney and his ilk. How stupid can you be? Here we have Bin Laden sitting there on a rug saying, "I did it. I planned it. Here's the guys I sent. Here's why I did it. Blah, blah, blah..." And here's this whole swath of idiots going, "Who REALLY did it? Let's look for mini-nukes." :rofl:

The real outrage is that the worst attack in history on American soil happened and not one, single head has rolled for it. Instead, Bush has become the great anti-terrorist. His entire cabal should have been impeached and removed with dishonor from government for its unfathomable incompetence in preventing 911. Instead, Bush is the "hero" of 911. Baaaa!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I think LABF was referring to Reagan and his cronies.

Amazing how he missed that! Ha!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The real outrage is that the worst attack in history on American soil happened and not one, single head has rolled for it. Instead, Bush has become the great anti-terrorist. His entire cabal should have been impeached and removed with dishonor from government for its unfathomable incompetence in preventing 911. Instead, Bush is the "hero" of 911. Baaaa!

It never ceases to amaze me, in retrospect, how the sheeple (read: Bush's supporters) just bought right into the "Bush = hero of 9/11" narrative without missing a beat.

[The Lone Bolt]

I'll make you a deal Gaff. Take the time to debate this issue with qualified experts (physicists, engineers, demolition and explosives professionals, etc.) who don't agree with you. Do it on a forum where we can all track the debate. If you can win over even one of those experts who were not formerly on your side I will read your papers.

[Breaker]

I like this one more.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-Sudw4ghVe8&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-Sudw4ghVe8&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Damn that chick is f***ing hot!!!

[Breaker]

Hey Guys,

I have made it clear many times that I welcome criticism. I can take a hit. A writer's best friend is a helpful critic.

I also understand skepticism -- being one myself.

And I sympathize with people struggling to make sense of 9/11 - having gone through the process myself of peeling away numerous layers of denial. It's tough to face the truth squarely.

But there' something ELSE going on in here -- on this board -- that I have no patience for. In a word it's the colossal HUBRIS I see on so many of the posts In fact, this is America's problem in the world today. Your colossal arrogance merely reflects America's drive for world domination.

This kind of arrogance knows no bounds and is rivaled only by your ignorance on key issues -- especially US foreign policy.

Shock therapy? Yes, indeed, this is needed.

Remember, the writer's job to speak the painful truths that no body wants to face. That's how writers serve the common good -- and that's where I'm coming from.

Writing is hard work. It's not a popularity contest. I will relish watching you clowns eat your own words -- after my book hits the best seller list.

Cheers, MHG

You accuse us of arrogance, take a look in the mirror. This is the same guy that arrogantly states that everyone but himself is wrong, that everyone else is uneducated and uninformed on every issue and that you are the light of the world. What are you, a six cent cult leader that got kicked out of the tin foil hat meetings because you couldn't tune into the infrared emissions given off by those genetically engineered attack butterflies that got training in some secret CIA base to deliver the mini-nukes to the WTC, and got further mind control devices implanted into them so Bush could legally claim that there was faulty butterfly intelligence?

The same guy that arrogantly believes his book is going to be on the NY Times best seller list, please take your holier than now attitude and keep it to yourself.

[alkemical]

You accuse us of arrogance, take a look in the mirror. This is the same guy that arrogantly states that everyone but himself is wrong, that everyone else is uneducated and uninformed on every issue and that you are the light of the world. What are you, a six cent cult leader that got kicked out of the tin foil hat meetings because you couldn't tune into the infrared emissions given off by those genetically engineered attack butterflies that got training in some secret CIA base to deliver the mini-nukes to the WTC, and got further mind control devices implanted into them so Bush could legally claim that there was faulty butterfly intelligence?

The same guy that arrogantly believes his book is going to be on the NY Times best seller list, please take your holier than now attitude and keep it to yourself.


What's even worse about it is...there are some very valid questions about 9/11. I have a few things that just bug me about it, not so much the incompetence portion...(I feel some people did profit, and that is being obscured).

I have some of my own...suspicions about 9/11 - i think the....method in which MHG goes about finding "truth" is more of a detriment to actually getting results. There's a way you play a game with information. It's almost all in the wrapping (I hate to say it, but after working in broadcast most people only care about presentation).

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Mr. LABF, what you have just said, is the most insanely idiotic thing I have ever heard. At no point, in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

The philosopher Harry G. Frankfurt clearly had pretenders like you in mind when he wrote the following passage from his book "On Bullsh*t."

Bullsh*tting, as he notes, is not exactly lying, and bullsh*t remains bullsh*t whether it's true or false. The difference lies in the bullsh*tter's complete disregard for whether what he's saying corresponds to facts in the physical world: he "does not reject the authority of the truth, as the liar does, and oppose himself to it. He pays no attention to it at all. By virtue of this, bullsh*t is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are."


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31i-FSEPxQL._AA240_.jpg
(http://www.amazon.com/Bull****-Harry-G-Frankfurt/dp/0691122946)

[Spider]

yeah , I dont think you will find many people that believes what the government said , or that the 9-11 panel had real answers , But Gaff is out there

[W*GS]

LABF's claim that the standard 9/11 account is bull**** is ridiculous considering his stated positions on the matter.

[Spider]

LABF's claim that the standard 9/11 account is bull**** is ridiculous considering his stated positions on the matter.

the 911 panel was just to cover up for the higher ups and find scape goats ...... I know you believe the 9-11 panel ...but most of us see it as what it is .....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Ah, it didn't take W*GS long to get back to poisoning the well.

[W*GS]

That's one of your standard tactics, LABF. Don't bitch when you claim others do it.

[mhgaffney]

I agree with Ron Paul. The 911 Commission was an insufficient investigation. But it was not insufficient because it was hiding some giant conspiracy. Like Ron Paul said, "It did what all government investigations do. It hid the ineptness and incompetence of the government."

The American people are sheep. They still have not demanded to know, not why 911 happened (we already know that), but HOW it happened. Instead, they get tied up with the lunatic fringe of Gaffney and his ilk. How stupid can you be? Here we have Bin Laden sitting there on a rug saying, "I did it. I planned it. Here's the guys I sent. Here's why I did it. Blah, blah, blah..." And here's this whole swath of idiots going, "Who REALLY did it? Let's look for mini-nukes." :rofl:

The real outrage is that the worst attack in history on American soil happened and not one, single head has rolled for it. Instead, Bush has become the great anti-terrorist. His entire cabal should have been impeached and removed with dishonor from government for its unfathomable incompetence in preventing 911. Instead, Bush is the "hero" of 911. Baaaa!

How do you know what I am about? You did not read my papers.

You say I am part of a lunatic fringe movement but the polls prove you wrong. Way back in 2006 a poll found that one third of Americans think 911 was an inside job. That's at least 100 million people. That is not a fringe movement. Don't believe me? I will post the story below)

If the poll were taken today the numbers would be higher -- probably around 40%. This trend will continue -- because slowly the truth is seeping out.

We will soon be a majority. At which point many of you wafflers and dissamblers will suddenly discover 911 truth and before long you will be slapping me on the back saying "Hey, Gaff, I knew you were right all along! Yuk! Yuk!"

This is the way social movements bring vital change. At first it is very slow and painful. There is lots of ridicule and resistance. Gradually the tide turns, however. Then a day comes when everyone takes the new reality for granted.

If I had appeared on this board in January 1991 -- claiming that the HW Bush administration was about to unveil a new fleet of military planes invisible to radar -- you and the other bozos on this board would have skinned me alive. You would have flailed me as a looney. But now stealth technology is ho hum. We take it for granted.

But it wasn't ho hum in 1991.

Rohirrim -- you just can't handle the fact that I make you uncomfortable. Get out of your own way so you can think. You haven't done the homework. It was never about mhgaffney.

[mhgaffney]

Poll: Third of Americans suspect 9/11 inside job
Wed, 02 Aug 2006 05:11:17 -0500

Asset H10263 Posted By whitey

More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East, according to a new Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll.

The national survey of 1,010 adults also found that anger against the federal government is at record levels, with 54 percent saying they “personally are more angry” at the government than they used to be.
Thirty-six percent of respondents overall said it is “very likely” or “somewhat likely” that federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon or took no action to stop them “because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East.”
“We know that there are a lot of people now asking questions,” said Janice Matthews, executive director of 911Truth.org, one of the most sophisticated Internet sites raising doubts about official explanations of the attacks. “We didn’t have the Internet after Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin or the Kennedy assassination. But we live in different times now….

http://www.gnn.tv/threads/18213/Poll_Third_of_Americans_suspect_9_11_inside_job

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Poll: Third of Americans suspect 9/11 inside job
Wed, 02 Aug 2006 05:11:17 -0500


Wasn't there also a Zogby poll that found an even higher percentage of New Yorkers who believed the same?

[TheDave]

For what it's worth... 30% of america thinks GWB is doing a swell job.

1/3 of the population always seems to be made up of idiots...

[Bronco Bob]

Wasn't there also a Zogby poll that found an even higher percentage of New Yorkers who believed the same?

Isn't there also a poll that says somewhere around 50% of Americans don't
believe in evolution, and that a lot of people believe in ghosts and ESP?
And look how popular Horoscopes are in the newspapers. Hell, about
50% of the voters voted for Bush. Twice.

Just curious. Has anyone done a poll in which people think mini-nukes
brought down the WTC towers? If so, what were the results?

[Rohirrim]

For what it's worth... 30% of america thinks GWB is doing a swell job.

1/3 of the population always seems to be made up of idiots...

Give that man a ceegar. ^5

I read once that 70% of Americans believe in the existence of angels.

[Bronco Bob]

Give that man a ceegar. ^5

I read once that 70% of Americans believe in the existence of angels.

Billy Graham wrote a book in which he demonstrated various instances in which angels helped America win WW2.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

For what it's worth... 30% of america thinks GWB is doing a swell job.


An even smaller percentage of people disapproved of the pinhead after 9/11, so that argument obviously works both ways.

I'm sure if Zogby were around in Copernicus' day he'd have found that an even smaller percentage of the population embraced the heliocentric model of the solar system.

[TheDave]

An even smaller percentage of people disapproved of the pinhead after 9/11, so that argument obviously works both ways.

I'm sure if Zogby were around in Copernicus' day he'd have found that an even smaller percentage of the population embraced the heliocentric model of the solar system.

I completely agree... Telling me a certian percentage of people believe one way or another means absolutely nothing.

Hell I taught evolution... Talk about being in the minority.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I completely agree... Telling me a certian percentage of people believe one way or another means absolutely nothing.

But it flies in the face of the notion that those of us who don't buy the official account of 9/11 are just a fringe minority.

[Rohirrim]

I wonder how many Americans believe in a JFK conspiracy?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I read once that 70% of Americans believe in the existence of angels.

Heh! :angel:

Well, proving the existence of angels and proving that the official account of 9/11 doesn't stand up to scrutiny are two different propositions, no?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I wonder how many Americans believe in a JFK conspiracy?

I wonder how many Americans know who JFK is? ;)

[W*GS]

But it flies in the face of the notion that those of us who don't buy the official account of 9/11 are just a fringe minority.

It's one thing to have quibbles with the 9/11 Commission Report or NIST's work - it's another to believe the completely loony (and unsupported and unsupportable) nonsense you do about 9/11.

[Rohirrim]

Heh! :angel:

Well, proving the existence of angels and proving that the official account of 9/11 doesn't stand up to scrutiny are two different propositions, no?

Not to some people. ;)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Then let's paraphrase for deflection boy:

"It flies in the face of the notion that those Americans who believe 9/11 was an inside job are just a fringe minority."

[W*GS]

Then let's paraphrase for deflection boy:

"It flies in the face of the notion that those Americans who believe 9/11 was an inside job are just a fringe minority."

You're beyond even gaffney's fringe. He's conceded that yes, Flight 72 hit the Pentagon. You believe otherwise.

I'm not talking about Americans, generally, I'm talking about you, specifically. But, you've always resorted to bandwagon appeals when you think they help.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

W*GS is slower than I thought.

The poll isn't a bandwagon appeal, and it doesn't prove the opponents of the official account are right - but it does challenge the claim that these people are simply a fringe minority.

[Rohirrim]

But it flies in the face of the notion that those of us who don't buy the official account of 9/11 are just a fringe minority.

I didn't say you were a fringe minority. I said you were a lunatic fringe. Ha!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I didn't say you were a fringe minority. I said you were a lunatic fringe. Ha!

Actually, I think people who don't believe in any sort of conspiracy theories (i.e., people who seem to think conspiracies of any kind simply do not exist) are even crazier in their own way.

It seems they are governed, in large part, by the fear of being ridiculed or dismissed as lunatics.

[W*GS]

The poll isn't a bandwagon appeal,

Bull****. Don't insult my intelligence by claiming the exact opposite of what you're doing. You're so intellectually dishonest, that even when it's obvious to all, you deny it. You're pathetic.

and it doesn't prove the opponents of the official account are right - but it does challenge the claim that these people are simply a fringe minority.

About the same number of people still think Bush is doing an OK job - are they a fringe minority? You've likely claimed that they are - so what makes your fringe beliefs less so than theirs?

Anyone who's done even a relatively small amount of research will find that the vast bulk of the claims of the 9/11 troofers are utter horse****.

[Rohirrim]

Actually, I think people who don't believe in any sort of conspiracy theories (i.e., people who seem to think conspiracies of any kind simply do not exist) are even crazier in their own way.

It seems they are governed, in large part, by the fear of being ridiculed or dismissed as lunatics.

I'm certainly willing to believe it. I sure believed in Watergate. But that was because evidence poured out and it became pile upon pile of evidence. You'd have been a dope (or a Nixon apologist) to ignore it. But I've studied the JFK assassination quite a bit. Every piece of so-called evidence has been a dead end. They came up with new auditory evidence of possible gunshots (a motorcycle patrolman's mic was left open) but that has been disproved. Every piece of evidence raised has been disproved. I'm not willing to just believe anything for the sake of it. And I've never cared what anybody thought about my opinions, so that doesn't mean much.

As far as the 911 conspiracy goes, I find it impossible to accept the idea of a conspiracy that would require the participation of hundreds of Americans spread across an enormous spectrum of the social sphere, from military men in all branches to maintenance workers, all who would have agreed to commit an act of treason. I especially find it impossible to accept because I've seen tapes of Bin Laden watching a TV with his followers who were loudly celebrating after the first jet hit and he stopped them and told them, "It's not over yet. Watch!"

[W*GS]

It's so odd that the troofers want us to think that the 9/11 Commission Report and NIST's work are completely corrupt and wrong (never mind their evidence for their claims consists of half-truths and outright lies), yet what they offer as an alternative is fatally flawed even on the most cursory examination.

Their stance is so typical of loonies.

[baja]

How do you know what I am about? You did not read my papers.

You say I am part of a lunatic fringe movement but the polls prove you wrong. Way back in 2006 a poll found that one third of Americans think 911 was an inside job. That's at least 100 million people. That is not a fringe movement. Don't believe me? I will post the story below)

If the poll were taken today the numbers would be higher -- probably around 40%. This trend will continue -- because slowly the truth is seeping out.

We will soon be a majority. At which point many of you wafflers and dissamblers will suddenly discover 911 truth and before long you will be slapping me on the back saying "Hey, Gaff, I knew you were right all along! Yuk! Yuk!"

<b>This is the way social movements bring vital change. At first it is very slow and painful. There is lots of ridicule and resistance. Gradually the tide turns, however. Then a day comes when everyone takes the new reality for granted. </b>

If I had appeared on this board in January 1991 -- claiming that the HW Bush administration was about to unveil a new fleet of military planes invisible to radar -- you and the other bozos on this board would have skinned me alive. You would have flailed me as a looney. But now stealth technology is ho hum. We take it for granted.

But it wasn't ho hum in 1991.

Rohirrim -- you just can't handle the fact that I make you uncomfortable. Get out of your own way so you can think. You haven't done the homework. It was never about mhgaffney.

Hey Mark you just described Ron Paul's campaign progression.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Ha ha ha! :laugh:

W*GS' straw man arguments, deflections, and broad-brushing of those who question the official BushCo account of 9/11 are so much more convincing when he loses his composure.

Your claim that my mention of the Zogby poll was intended as a bandwagon appeal is just more grasping at straws on your part - you have no proof that this was my intention.

BTW, you just said that the number of people who think Bush is doing a good job and the number who believe 9/11 was an inside job are about the same.

What, according to your reasoning, does this say about your fellow Bush supporters?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

A courtesy hint for W*GS:

The remaining Kool-Aid drinkers who think Bush is doing a good job can point to little or no evidence in defense of their position (just look at the SOTU thread for an example.)

The same cannot be said for those who claim 9/11 was an inside job.

[W*GS]

A courtesy hint for W*GS:

The remaining Kool-Aid drinkers who think Bush is doing a good job can point to little or no evidence in defense of their position (just look at the SOTU thread for an example.)

The same cannot be said for those who claim 9/11 was an inside job.

I've already addressed, many times, the "evidence" the troofers claim supports their beliefs. It's all either half-truths, lies, or completely fantastic and irrational nonsense (see mini-nukes).

It's your BDS that's put you in their camp. That's how badly you have it.

[W*GS]

W*GS' straw man arguments, deflections, and broad-brushing of those who question the official BushCo account of 9/11 are so much more convincing when he loses his composure.

Snort. The only thing lost in this thread is your cred.

Your claim that my mention of the Zogby poll was intended as a bandwagon appeal is just more grasping at straws on your part - you have no proof that this was my intention.

You always try to use polls as bandwagon appeals. Always.

BTW, you just said that the number of people who think Bush is doing a good job and the number who believe 9/11 was an inside job are about the same.

What, according to your reasoning, does this say about your fellow Bush supporters?

I don't think Bush is doing, and never has done, a good job, so shove your claim that I'm a Bush supporter.

Both sets (troofers and Bush supporters) are idiots who are ignoring the facts and the truth. Therefore, you're an idiot. But we already knew that.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

tsk tsk

There he goes with the name-calling again.

(The same behavior for which he scolds others and pretends he's above.)

Those who believe 9/11 was an inside job have presented an abundance of evidence to support their position. Whether you accept this evidence or not is up to you.

Conversely, those mental midgets who still believe Bush is doing a good job offer little or no evidence to support their position. They have declined repeated invitations to provide a summary of Bush's accomplishments. Their typical response to criticism of Bush is not to defend Bush (or to deny the charges against him) but to attack the critic and/or change the subject.

Gee, that sounds just like you, W*GS. :yep:

How about it, W*GS?

Care to give us a list of Bush's accomplishments?

BTW, that "BDS" thing you've got working is some funny sh*t.

It's sort of a variation on epithets (like "bush basher" and "bush hater") we're used to hearing from folks who are invested in covering Bush's flank.

[W*GS]

Those who believe 9/11 was an inside job have presented an abundance of evidence to support their position. Whether you accept this evidence or not is up to you.

The troofers' "evidence" is, as I said, made up of half-truths, outright lies, innuendo, and leaps of "logic" that would do Evel Knievel proud.

Provide the best (IYHO) bit of evidence that the troofers claim supports their nonsense.

Care to give us a list of Bush's accomplishments?

I'll let the Bush supporters do that. Ask one of them.

As always, you perceive attacks on your ideology as defenses of Bush. Why do you do that?

And "BDS" perfectly describes you - every topic, no matter how far afield from Bush it is, is always twisted and turned by you so you can get your BDS needs satisfied.

[Bronco Bob]

Those who believe 9/11 was an inside job have presented an abundance of evidence to support their position. Whether you accept this evidence or not is up to you.


Ultimately it doesn't matter how many people accept the Troofers claims
What matters is if the claim is valid or not. And every Troofer claim I
have seen have been rejected and disproven by legitimate scientists
and engineers. But the Troofers go merrily along and ignore it,
hoping that if they say it loud enough and long enough, people
that are too lazy or ignorant to look into the matter will blindy
accept it as fact.

[Rohirrim]

Ultimately it doesn't matter how many people accept the Troofers claims
What matters is if the claim is valid or not. And every Troofer claim I
have seen have been rejected and disproven by legitimate scientists
and engineers. But the Troofers go merrily along and ignore it,
hoping that if they say it loud enough and long enough, people
that are too lazy or ignorant to look into the matter will blindy
accept it as fact.

Yeah. Popular Mechanics is in on it. Hilarious!

[alkemical]

Yeah. Popular Mechanics is in on it. Hilarious!

Well according to some, the CIA uses PM as a front....

[W*GS]

Ultimately it doesn't matter how many people accept the Troofers claims
What matters is if the claim is valid or not. And every Troofer claim I
have seen have been rejected and disproven by legitimate scientists
and engineers. But the Troofers go merrily along and ignore it,
hoping that if they say it loud enough and long enough, people
that are too lazy or ignorant to look into the matter will blindy
accept it as fact.

Exactly. We've seen it here - gaffney always includes as fact and proven various things in his posts that others of us have demolished and shown to be false. He doesn't care - he just continues without accepting that most, if not all, of his foundational bits of evidence are wrong.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And every Troofer claim I
have seen have been rejected and disproven by legitimate scientists
and engineers.

Every claim? Not quite.

Rejected? In some instances. Disproven? Hardly.

You speak of "legitimate scientists and engineers" as if to speak for the entire community of scientists and engineers when you know as well as I do that there are legitimate scientists who argue that 9/11 was an inside job.

[W*GS]

Every claim? Not quite.

Definitely all the substantial and key foundational claims are proven wrong and thus rejected.

You speak of "legitimate scientists and engineers" as if to speak for the entire community of scientists and engineers when you know as well as I do that there are legitimate scientists who argue that 9/11 was an inside job.

Most, if not all, of the scientists of whom you speak don't have knowledge relevant to their claims.

Einstein was a brilliant scientist, but I wouldn't trust him to perform an appendectomy on someone. Likewise, the few troofers who happen to be scientists don't have the relevant expertise to truly support their claims.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I have to take offense at the title of this thread: "9/11 mini-nuke debate continues".

First, there has to be a debate at all for it to continue.

Second, when did it ever continue?

[Rohirrim]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

For those who haven't seen it.

To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military.

In the end, we were able to debunk each of these assertions with hard evidence and a healthy dose of common sense. We learned that a few theories are based on something as innocent as a reporting error on that chaotic day. Others are the byproducts of cynical imaginations that aim to inject suspicion and animosity into public debate. Only by confronting such poisonous claims with irrefutable facts can we understand what really happened on a day that is forever seared into world history.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Point-by-point refutation of the Popular Mechanics snow job here:

Reply to Popular Mechanics re: 9/11

Some people, who suppose themselves to be both "intelligent" and "rational", dismiss any denial of the official story of September 11th as "conspiracy theory". This not only reveals an absence of (or at least a curious suspension of) thinking ability but also fails to address the fundamental question: Who planned and carried out the attacks of 9/11? Articles on this website and on many others present convincing evidence (to those whose minds are not closed) that what happened on 9/11 (a crime which has never been subjected to a criminal investigation) could not have happened as the Bush administration claims it did. If so then why should we believe the claim that the operation was planned and carried out by a cabal consisting of a couple of dozen Arabs? Given all the holes in the official story, there is no reason to believe this claim. And if Arabs did not plan and carry out the attacks of 9/11, then who did? This is the question that those who accept the official story are desperately trying to avoid facing, because to do so threatens their entire set of beliefs about the current nature of American society and the U.S. government. Faith in the official story is ultimately based on one thing: Fear of the consequences, should it be proven false.

This page censored at Wikipedia This article, by way of rebuttal of the deceptive straw-man tactics of Popular Mechanics, examines the evidence for and against the official story (which is itself a conspiracy theory) of the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and concludes that there is no evidence to support the official story, and that it cannot be true. This was also the conclusion reached in the author's earlier article on this subject, The World Trade Center Demolition and the So-Called War on Terrorism. Read, think about it, and decide for yourself. Don't allow yourself to be deceived by the complicity of the mainstream media in the cover-up and by the trolls in the online forums and on Wikipedia (all references to this article in Wikipedia articles are quickly deleted).

Here is a shorter URL for this article: www.serendipity.li/popular-mechanics-debunked.htm

Popular Mechanics recently came out with an issue in which the main story was called 9/11: Debunking The Myths: "PM examines the evidence and consults the experts to refute the most persistent conspiracy theories of September 11." Really? Upon examination it turns out to be a shoddy piece of disinfo produced in a desperate attempt to defend against the fact that Americans are finally waking up and realizing that 9/11 was an inside job, that about 3000 people died at the hands of elements within their own government.

Popular Mechanics presented sixteen "Claims", which it attributed to 9/11 "conspiracy theorists", and to each one added its "Fact", which it intended to be a debunking of the "Claim". These "Claims" and "Facts" are reproduced verbatim in the boxes below, followed by a reply to Popular Mechanics' "debunking". The section headings are the titles used by Popular Mechanics, and the order of the sixteen items follows their order in the magazine.

It is not the intention of this article to defend all of the "Claims" given by Popular Mechanics. Some of them may in fact be ludicrous. This is the "straw man" tactic, where an intellectually dishonest proponent sets up some ridiculous claim, which he attributes to "conspiracy theorists", and then proceeds to knock it down. This tactic is well-known to intelligent people, though apparently Popular Mechanics does not regard its readership as belonging to that class.

Full article: http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Popular Mechanics Attacks Its "9/11 LIES" Straw Man

by Jim Hoffman

Version 1.2, February 9, 2005

The Hearst-owned Popular Mechanics magazine takes aim at the 9/11 Truth Movement (without ever acknowledging it by that name) with a cover story in its March 2005 edition. Sandwiched between ads and features for monster trucks, NASCAR paraphernalia, and off-road racing are twelve dense and brilliantly designed pages purporting to debunk the myths of 9/11.

The article's approach is to identify and attack a series of claims which it asserts represent the whole of 9/11 skepticism. It gives the false impression that these claims, several of which are clearly absurd, represent the breadth of challenges to the official account of the flights, the World Trade Center attack, and the Pentagon attack. Meanwhile it entirely ignores vast bodies of evidence showing that only insiders had the means, motive, and opportunity to carry out the attack.

Full article: http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

[Rohirrim]

I wonder why these people, and Gaff BTW, feel the need to hurl scattershot insults at anyone who disagrees with them?

[Bronco Bob]

Popular Mechanics Attacks Its "9/11 LIES" Straw Man

by Jim Hoffman

Version 1.2, February 9, 2005

The Hearst-owned Popular Mechanics magazine takes aim at the 9/11 Truth Movement (without ever acknowledging it by that name) with a cover story in its March 2005 edition. Sandwiched between ads and features for monster trucks, NASCAR paraphernalia, and off-road racing are twelve dense and brilliantly designed pages purporting to debunk the myths of 9/11.



Uh, gee, the magazine is Popular MECHANICS. What should they
have ads for, French wine, lace undies, and nail polish?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I wonder why these people, and Gaff BTW, feel the need to hurl scattershot insults at anyone who disagrees with them?

I think both sides are guilty on that account.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Uh, gee, the magazine is Popular MECHANICS. What should they
have ads for, French wine, lace undies, and nail polish?

I believe this was the more relevant paragraph in the excerpt:

The article's approach is to identify and attack a series of claims which it asserts represent the whole of 9/11 skepticism. It gives the false impression that these claims, several of which are clearly absurd, represent the breadth of challenges to the official account of the flights, the World Trade Center attack, and the Pentagon attack. Meanwhile it entirely ignores vast bodies of evidence showing that only insiders had the means, motive, and opportunity to carry out the attack.

Full article: http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

[Bronco Bob]

I believe this was the more relevant paragraph in the excerpt:

No, what was relevant was the author was attempting to poison the well
by implying that this was a magazine for rubes and rednecks,
the stereotypical Southern good old boy. And therefore this is
a magazine that can't be taken seriously. He also seems very
fond of pointing out that PM is a Hearst publication. Which is
another attempt to poison the well, by implying that because
Randolph Hearst was guilty of yellow journalism back in the
1890's, that PM is just carrying on that tradition.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No, what was relevant was the author was attempting to poison the well
by implying that this was a magazine for rubes and rednecks,
the stereotypical Southern good old boy. And therefore this is
a magazine that can't be taken seriously. He also seems very
fond of pointing out that PM is a Hearst publication. Which is
another attempt to poison the well, by implying that because
Randolph Hearst was guilty of yellow journalism back in the
1890's, that PM is just carrying on that tradition.

Even if I were to concede all of the above, it wouldn't change this:

The article's approach is to identify and attack a series of claims which it asserts represent the whole of 9/11 skepticism. It gives the false impression that these claims, several of which are clearly absurd, represent the breadth of challenges to the official account of the flights, the World Trade Center attack, and the Pentagon attack. Meanwhile it entirely ignores vast bodies of evidence showing that only insiders had the means, motive, and opportunity to carry out the attack.

Full article: http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

[Rohirrim]

I think both sides are guilty on that account.

I didn't start insulting Gaff until after he'd pasted me about ten times out of the blue. I'm done here. If there is one thing I've learned in life, you can't argue with religious fervor. There are people out there who have devoted 45 years of their lives trying to get to the bottom of the JFK assassination. I have the feeling the 911 Truthers will outlast even them.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

He also seems very
fond of pointing out that PM is a Hearst publication. Which is
another attempt to poison the well, by implying that because
Randolph Hearst was guilty of yellow journalism back in the
1890's, that PM is just carrying on that tradition.

It's true: Just because someone has lied in the past doen't mean everything he will ever say in the future must also be a lie.

However, it does justify some skepticism on the part of the reader.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I didn't start insulting Gaff until after he'd pasted me about ten times out of the blue.

I wasn't referring to the history with you and Gaff specifically - just the behavior of people on both sides in general.

I've been on the receiving end of some name-calling a time or two. ;)

99% of the time I don't go there unless the other guy makes it personal first.

[baja]

thanks,

That's all ;D

[Bronco Bob]

What say we agree to retire the phrases "Straw man" & "poison the well"

thanks,

That's all ;D

If the shoe fits....

If we choose to no longer call a pig a pig, it would still be a pig.

[Hotrod]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

For those who haven't seen it.

To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military.

In the end, we were able to debunk each of these assertions with hard evidence and a healthy dose of common sense. We learned that a few theories are based on something as innocent as a reporting error on that chaotic day. Others are the byproducts of cynical imaginations that aim to inject suspicion and animosity into public debate. Only by confronting such poisonous claims with irrefutable facts can we understand what really happened on a day that is forever seared into world history.

The bold section is exactly why Gaffarino will simply never be more then a tin foil hat wearing idiot.

[alkemical]

If the shoe fits....

If we choose to no longer call a pig a pig, it would still be a pig.


If we didn't call a pig, a pig and called it a chazwuzer - it wouldn't be a pit, it'd be a chazwuzer.

[baja]

If the shoe fits....

If we choose to no longer call a pig a pig, it would still be a pig.

Guess you missed the smilie - "Love it or leave it" ;D

"Either you are with us or you are against us"

[Bronco Bob]

"They hate us for our freedom"

"Shock and Awe"

"Mission Accomplished"

[baja]

"I'd rather fight them over there than over here."

[alkemical]

"They hate us for our freedom"

"Shock and Awe"

"Mission Accomplished"

Notice how each of them are wrong.

[baja]

"They hate us for our freedom"

"Shock and Awe"

"Mission Accomplished"

No fair you used my favorite, Shock & Awe

[Hotrod]

The war on terror is hard work

[alkemical]

The war on terror is hard work

No it's not, we have a colour coded guide to tell us how scared to be.

[W*GS]

Was it a mini-nuke?

[24champ]

"What are you going to fight them with? Spitballs?"

Is my personal favorite...

[24champ]

Mini-nukes?

http://www.twf.org/News/Y1997/TWA800.JPG

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

"I'd rather fight them over there than over here."

The Clinton economy was all Reagan's doing, and the Bush II economy is all Clinton's fault!

(Oh, and BTW, 9/11 happened on Clinton's watch!)

[TDmvp]

The Clinton economy was all Reagan's doing, and the Bush II economy is all Clinton's fault!

(Oh, and BTW, 9/11 happened on Clinton's watch!)

yup...

[W*GS]

"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you."

[baja]

"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you."


L O L That one is surely a classic

[baja]

"Stay the course"

[baja]

"We must go in a new direction"

[24champ]

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

[alkemical]

"I will not make any new taxes"

[24champ]

"I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it."

[Rohirrim]

"Bring 'em on."

[24champ]

"Dead or alive"

[alkemical]

"I [insert name], do solemnly swear...."

[DBruleU]

":Whaaaa!: :vermeil:" - Hillary

[epicSocialism4tw]

L O L That one is surely a classic

Ironic that you should think so.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.izzyguaal.com/ws/pol/bin/2faces/2faces_thmb.jpg

[baja]

Ironic that you should think so.

Llamatron, llamatron

http://static.flickr.com/26/95081511_7d407b9aab.jpg

[Bronco Bob]

Oh, the humanity!

[alkemical]

Clavicula_Solomonis edit[/B];1870134]Oh, the LLAMANITY! :)

[mhgaffney]

I'm certainly willing to believe it. I sure believed in Watergate. But that was because evidence poured out and it became pile upon pile of evidence. You'd have been a dope (or a Nixon apologist) to ignore it. But I've studied the JFK assassination quite a bit. Every piece of so-called evidence has been a dead end. They came up with new auditory evidence of possible gunshots (a motorcycle patrolman's mic was left open) but that has been disproved. Every piece of evidence raised has been disproved. I'm not willing to just believe anything for the sake of it. And I've never cared what anybody thought about my opinions, so that doesn't mean much.

As far as the 911 conspiracy goes, I find it impossible to accept the idea of a conspiracy that would require the participation of hundreds of Americans spread across an enormous spectrum of the social sphere, from military men in all branches to maintenance workers, all who would have agreed to commit an act of treason. I especially find it impossible to accept because I've seen tapes of Bin Laden watching a TV with his followers who were loudly celebrating after the first jet hit and he stopped them and told them, "It's not over yet. Watch!"

Rohirrim has apparently fled from this thread -- but just for the record his arguments are wrong.

1. The government cannot keep secrets: Wrong. They do it all the time. Chalmers Johnson writes in his 2007 book Nemesis that 40% of the Pentagon's budget is black -- meaning there is zero accountability. I can't confirm the figure - but I woudln't be surprised if Chalmers is correct.

And there is likewise no meaningful accountability over the intelligence community. From its creation in 1947-48 there was zero accountability over the CIA. This did not change until the days of the Church committee in the 70s -- after Watergate. At that time there was a very limited reform -- the creation of House and Senate intelligence committees to supposedly do oversight. But the CIA soon found ways around this new process.

Did anyone here know of the CIA's massive operation to overthrow Salvador Allende in Chile in 1973? No -- of course not.

Did anyone in here know of the existence of the fleet of stealth bombers BEFORE they were unveiled in 1991? No -- of course not.

There are hundreds of other examples.

2. The bin Laden tape. Funny how bin Laden's three denials in the world press were not reported in the US media. Not that bin Laden is innocent. He may well have been involved in 911. But there is good reason to believe the Dec 2001 video is a fake.

Why is Rohirrim so naive as to accept uncritically this tape as proof of bin Laden's guilt? Where is his critical faculty? Apparently it's non existent.

Three German and Swiss experts in the Arabic language have disputed the DoD's translation of this video. Moreover, anyone who has taken the time to study photos of the real bin Laden can see that the character in the video bears only the most superficial resemblance to bin Laden. His face is way too broad. And there are other problems.

[Rohirrim]

Rohirrim has apparently fled from this thread -- but just for the record his arguments are wrong.

1. The government cannot keep secrets: Wrong. They do it all the time. Chalmers Johnson writes in his 2007 book Nemesis that 40% of the Pentagon's budget is black -- meaning there is zero accountability. I can't confirm the figure - but I woudln't be surprised if Chalmers is correct.

And there is likewise no meaningful accountability over the intelligence community. From its creation in 1947-48 there was zero accountability over the CIA. This did not change until the days of the Church committee in the 70s -- after Watergate. At that time there was a very limited reform -- the creation of House and Senate intelligence committees to supposedly do oversight. But the CIA soon found ways around this new process.

Did anyone here know of the CIA's massive operation to overthrow Salvador Allende in Chile in 1973? No -- of course not.

Did anyone in here know of the existence of the fleet of stealth bombers BEFORE they were unveiled in 1991? No -- of course not.

There are hundreds of other examples.

2. The bin Laden tape. Funny how bin Laden's three denials in the world press were not reported in the US media. Not that bin Laden is innocent. He may well have been involved in 911. But there is good reason to believe the Dec 2001 video is a fake.

Why is Rohirrim so naive as to accept uncritically this tape as proof of bin Laden's guilt? Where is his critical faculty? Apparently it's non existent.

Three German and Swiss experts in the Arabic language have disputed the DoD's translation of this video. Moreover, anyone who has taken the time to study photos of the real bin Laden can see that the character in the video bears only the most superficial resemblance to bin Laden. His face is way too broad. And there are other problems.

And this post is a perfect example of why I have given up on the subject. If a video disproves the conspiracy, the video is faked. If evidence debunks the conspiracy, the evidence is planted. If a witness contradicts the conspiracy, the witness is lying. It's like arguing with the Hare Krishnas. Just take the pamphlet and keep walking. :welcome:

[Breaker]

Llamatron, llamatron

http://static.flickr.com/26/95081511_7d407b9aab.jpg

Why are you posting a picture of LABF's girlfriend, thats not nice!!!!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Why are you posting a picture of LABF's girlfriend, thats not nice!!!!

Wow - first I show up in your sig, and now some gratuitous grammar school smack.

(How old are you? Ten?)

I guess we've got another live one here...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31zjTr8e6UL._AA280_.jpg

[baja]

Breaker - Mr. LABF, what you have just said, is the most insanely idiotic thing I have ever heard. At no point, in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.


Where do we get these kids from?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Where do we get these kids from?

And does mom know they're on her computer?

[Spider]

Why are you posting a picture of LABF's girlfriend, thats not nice!!!!

what ?? me and LABF datin the same gal ........ I will beat the stuffing out of him ........Make no mistake she is mine

[Spider]

And this post is a perfect example of why I have given up on the subject. If a video disproves the conspiracy, the video is faked. If evidence debunks the conspiracy, the evidence is planted. If a witness contradicts the conspiracy, the witness is lying. It's like arguing with the Hare Krishnas. Just take the pamphlet and keep walking. :welcome:

Appearently you dont read to well ........ you fled this thread ..... you ran cause you was scared of someone typing .. ;D

[Breaker]

Breaker - Mr. LABF, what you have just said, is the most insanely idiotic thing I have ever heard. At no point, in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.


Where do we get these kids from?

That is a movie quote from Billy Madison that goes "Mr.Madison ...... " I just replaced Madison with LABF, can't take credit for it but it is funny as hell.

[Breaker]

what ?? me and LABF datin the same gal ........ I will beat the stuffing out of him ........Make no mistake she is mine

:rofl:

[24champ]

Where do we get these kids from?

Some of them come from "The Bartcop Institution of Copying and Pasting" school. :thumbs:

[elsid13]

Appearently you dont read to well ........ you fled this thread ..... you ran cause you was scared of someone typing .. ;D

And Mock wasn't the typist