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SoCalBronco
01-23-2008, 11:50 PM
January 24, 2008
Romney Leads in Ill Will Among G.O.P. Candidates
By MICHAEL LUO
TAMPA, Fla. — At the end of the Republican presidential debate in New Hampshire this month, when the Democrats joined the candidates on stage, Mitt Romney found himself momentarily alone as his counterparts mingled, looking around a bit stiffly for a companion.

The moment was emblematic of a broader reality that has helped shape the Republican contest and could take center stage again on Thursday at a debate in Florida. Within the small circle of contenders, Mr. Romney has become the most disliked.

With so much attention recently on the sniping between Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama on the Democratic side, the almost visceral scorn directed at Mr. Romney by his rivals has been overshadowed.

“Never get into a wrestling match with a pig,” Senator John McCain said in New Hampshire this month after reporters asked him about Mr. Romney. “You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.”

Mike Huckabee’s pugilistic campaign chairman, Ed Rollins, appeared to stop just short of threatening Mr. Romney with physical violence at one point.

“What I have to do is make sure that my anger with a guy like Romney, whose teeth I want to knock out, doesn’t get in the way of my thought process,” Mr. Rollins said.

Campaign insiders and outside strategists point to several factors driving the ill will, most notably, Mr. Romney’s attacks on opponents in television commercials, the perception of him as an ideological panderer and resentment about his seemingly unlimited resources as others have struggled to raise cash.

Mr. Romney’s campaign contends that the hostility is driven by the fact that he has aggressively sought to win the early primaries, setting himself up as the chief antagonist, first, to Mr. Huckabee in Iowa and then to Mr. McCain in New Hampshire.

Mr. Romney continues to be a mountain in the paths of both men, as well as Rudolph W. Giuliani, to the nomination.

A spokesman for the Romney campaign, Kevin Madden, said, “I think it’s largely driven by the fact that everybody’s taught to tackle the guy on the field with the ball.”

But the New Hampshire debate was striking in that it amounted to a gang tackle of Mr. Romney, even though Mr. McCain was leading in polls in the state.

“The glee the other candidates go after Romney with is really unique,” said Dan Schnur, a Republican strategist who worked on Mr. McCain’s presidential campaign bid in 2000 but is not affiliated with any campaign now.

A senior adviser to Mr. Romney, Ronald C. Kaufman, pointed to his vast personal fortune and upstart status in the political world as breeding resentment.

“They think he didn’t pay his dues,” said Mr. Kaufman, who argued that Mr. Romney had done so by working tirelessly in his campaign.

In stark contrast to Mr. Romney, Mr. McCain seems to be universally liked and respected by the other Republican contenders, even if they disagree with him.

Mr. Schnur used a schoolyard analogy to compare Mr. Romney, the ever-proper Harvard Law School and Business School graduate, to Mr. McCain, the gregarious rebel who racked up demerits and friends at the Naval Academy.

“John McCain and his friends used to beat up Mitt Romney at recess,” Mr. Schnur said.

Although Mr. McCain has now started to draw some cautious challenges from Mr. Giuliani in Florida, he has a longstanding friendship with him, dating from 1998, when they first met.

Mr. McCain also seems to have fallen into a mutual nonaggression pact with Mr. Huckabee, who has been almost fawning in his compliments for Mr. McCain and dripping with contempt when discussing Mr. Romney.

Mr. McCain has drawn criticism as being excessively personal in striking back at Mr. Romney. So he has tried to play down any notion that he harbors special animosity toward him, saying he simply does not know him well.

But Mr. McCain’s advisers, whose distaste for Mr. Romney is vivid, say Mr. McCain has been irked by what they perceive as misleading attacks and Mr. Romney’s willingness to say anything to be elected.

“He doesn’t play by the same rules the rest of us do,” said Charlie Black, a senior McCain strategist.

McCain aides were positively gleeful last week as they watched replays aboard their campaign bus of a heated back and forth between Mr. Romney and an Associated Press reporter who challenged an assertion about the influence of lobbyists in his campaign.

Nevertheless, before he criticizes rivals, Mr. Romney often pauses to say that the man is a “friend,” and he seems to believe it.

Mr. Giuliani endorsed Mr. Romney in his race for Massachusetts governor in 2002 and campaigned for him. Mr. Romney got to know Mr. McCain while running the 2002 Winter Olympic Games and went to Washington to seek federal money.

Mr. Romney probably knows Mr. Huckabee the best, aides said, as the two were governors at the same time and ran into each other often through the Republican Governors Association and the National Governors Association.

Paradoxically, sometimes the enmity between them appears to be the sharpest.

Aides to Mr. Huckabee say he did not get to know Mr. Romney very well as a governor, finding him distant at meetings. The aides said they were also irritated that Mr. Romney did not call after Mr. Huckabee’s victory in Iowa.

Mr. Romney shrugged off any tension with his rivals when asked about it.

“You know,” he said, “in this process, people have a real battle for success. But I consider these guys friends.”

Elisabeth Bumiller contributed reporting from Orlando, Fla.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/us/politics/24romney.html?ei=5065&en=db47c187783bc922&ex=1201755600&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 11:55 PM
....Hopefully it gets dirtier and meaner and trashier.

http://www.xsltblog.com/archives/The-Simpsons-Mr-Burns-Excel.jpg
.

SoCalBronco
01-23-2008, 11:56 PM
.

I knew you were going to cut it from the other thread and put it here. :)

Rohirrim
01-24-2008, 07:08 AM
Mitt Romney's outlook and particular skill set is just about the last thing this country needs right now.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-24-2008, 08:55 AM
Mitt Romney's outlook and particular skill set is just about the last thing this country needs right now.

...which more than likely means he can bank the votes of the same mental midgets who still approve of Dim Son.

Bronco Bob
01-24-2008, 11:22 AM
Mitt Romney has the highest unfavorable to favorable ratio of any candidate running.
People like to point out Hillary's high negatives, but actually Romney's
unfavorable to favorable ratio is much higher. A lot of people hate
Hillary, but also a lot of people like Hillary. While with Romney
a lot of people hate Romney, but not very many people like him.

http://www.pollingreport.com/R.htm#Romney

http://www.pollingreport.com/C2.htm#Hillary

Also in head to head polls, all the Democrats lead Romney
by the highest margin.

Clinton 50%
Romney 39%

Obama 46%
Romney 35%

Edwards 50%
Romney 34%

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

spdirty
01-24-2008, 11:25 AM
Mitt Romney has the highest unfavorable to favorable ratio of any candidate running.
People like to point out Hillary's high negatives, but actually Romney's
unfavorable to favorable ratio is much higher. A lot of people hate
Hillary, but also a lot of people like Hillary. While with Romney
a lot of people hate Romney, but not very many people like him.

http://www.pollingreport.com/R.htm#Romney

http://www.pollingreport.com/C2.htm#Hillary

Also in head to head polls, all the Democrats lead Romney
by the highest margin.

Clinton 50%
Romney 39%

Obama 46%
Romney 35%

Edwards 50%
Romney 34%

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

And Rudy was the assumed inevitable nominee who led all the polls only 6 months ago...the election is only 9 1/2 months away...don't worry, I'm sure those numbers will hold up.:thumbsup:

spdirty
01-24-2008, 11:33 AM
Oh yeah, and Hillary was also the candidate of inevitablity just a couple months ago. Yeah, I think she will pull it out of her ass, but not nearly as easily as it was once thought.

The polls are so fluid anymore.

Bronco Bob
01-24-2008, 12:09 PM
Oh yeah, and Hillary was also the candidate of inevitablity just a couple months ago. Yeah, I think she will pull it out of her ass, but not nearly as easily as it was once thought.

The polls are so fluid anymore.

It just seems that Romney's poll numbers right now are remarkably close
to Bush's approval ratings. I suppose Bush's approval rating could shoot
up to 80% by then end of October, in which case Romney would be
a shoe-in because people are so happy with the Republicans. But
I doubt this is going to happen.

baja
01-24-2008, 12:46 PM
It just seems that Romney's poll numbers right now are remarkably close
to Bush's approval ratings. I suppose Bush's approval rating could shoot
up to 80% by then end of October, in which case Romney would be
a shoe-in because people are so happy with the Republicans. But
I doubt this is going to happen.

L O L

Bob
01-24-2008, 08:27 PM
My problem is that with Thompson out Huckabee and McCain are horrible on the border -- so that leaves one -- Romney who might do something on teh border.

As far as conservatives that are still running ... he may be the closest to a conservative in the mold that I like -- low spending, tax cuts, strong on denfence, family values ...

But will he actually spend less? How simular is he to Bush and Reagan on teh spending front?

Every R running have big weaknesses. I dont think that Romney's stimulus plan is perfect + Romney is a little too scripted, unlike Huckabee. For me it is choosing the best of the worst. I am surprised to be feeling this way, but if I had to vote today I would have to struggle whether to vote for Ron Paul or Romney. The more the economy tanks -- the more folks will look at Romney or Ron Paul -- who will actually spend less -- Ron Paul would -- what is the BIGGEST problem we are facing? I used to think it was terrorism, but now I am not sure -- its hard to have a strong defence when you have a bankrupt Nation.

baja
01-24-2008, 08:30 PM
I see with the economy situation in the main stream news some of you guys are coming around. ;D

Bob
01-24-2008, 08:44 PM
I see with the economy situation in the main stream news some of you guys are coming around. ;D

More like Glenn Beck who talks about ecomomic dooms-day every freaking second...

The main steam news is not BLASTING the idea of spending more in varius stimulus packages...

Bronco Bob
01-24-2008, 11:22 PM
I like that Huckabee is promoting the Fair Tax. I think that is a great
idea, but I doubt he would get elected on that, and some of his other
ideas are rather odd. Even if he did get elected, it's questionable
that it would be implemented. But he seems to be about the only one
pushing it.

24champ
01-25-2008, 01:56 AM
I knew you were going to cut it from the other thread and put it here. :)

It's what he does best....cut and paste. Hey at least it is not a Bartcop cartoon.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-25-2008, 02:23 AM
It's what he does best....cut and paste. Hey at least it is not a Bartcop cartoon.

Actually, if you had a clue, you would realize that the graphic was something SoCal copied and pasted on another thread.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-25-2008, 02:31 AM
I see with the economy situation in the main stream news some of you guys are coming around. ;D

Is it just me, or do a lot of people who vote republican seem to put party before country no matter what?

Considering all the bad things that have happened over the past seven years (and the increasingly dark place America is in right now as we speak) it would seem that the last thing any sane person would want would be more of the same, i.e., more republican rule!

spdirty
01-25-2008, 09:23 AM
Is it just me, or do a lot of people who vote republican seem to put party before country no matter what?

Considering all the bad things that have happened over the past seven years (and the increasingly dark place America is in right now as we speak) it would seem that the last thing any sane person would want would be more of the same, i.e., more republican rule!

Because last year we made too much money, but didnt turn around and spend it, so we got raped by the tax man. If the Dems take over, they won't even use lube.

Oh, and don't forget the border. You were always on the right side of immigration, but a vote for democrats and moderate republicans is a vote for open borders and amnesty. I'll take the guy who at least says he will secure the border and deport them through attrition. Then I can hold his feet to the fire if he doesn't come through. With McCain and Huckabee and any dem, you ARE VOTING for open borders and amnesty. So don't whine about it when thats what you get.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-25-2008, 09:28 AM
With McCain and Huckabee and any dem, you ARE VOTING for open borders and amnesty. So don't whine about it when thats what you get.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not planning to vote for any of the above.

spdirty
01-25-2008, 09:30 AM
In case you haven't noticed, I'm not planning to vote for any of the above.

nor are you planning to vote for a candidate that is for securing the borders and properly dealing with these criminals.

Your goin with the copout and voting for the guy who won't even run because he is too busy making a killing off the GW racket.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-25-2008, 09:38 AM
nor are you planning to vote for a candidate that is for securing the borders and properly dealing with these criminals.

Your goin with the copout and voting for the guy who won't even run because he is too busy making a killing off the GW racket.

There's really no one else who is worthy of my vote (although if push comes to shove I might be persuaded to go with Ron Paul.)

Also, illegal immigration is a big issue, obviously, but it isn't the only issue.

spdirty
01-25-2008, 09:41 AM
There's really no one else who is worthy of my vote (although if push comes to shove I might be persuaded to go with Ron Paul.)

Also, illegal immigration is a big issue, obviously, but it isn't the only issue.

well, for me it is a big enough issue where I won't vote for a person who isn't for at least securing the border.

Bronco Bob
01-25-2008, 10:27 AM
well, for me it is a big enough issue where I won't vote for a person who isn't for at least securing the border.

Are you kidding? They all say they want to secure the borders.
Name one candidate currently running who isn't advocating
securing the boarders.

Rohirrim
01-25-2008, 10:36 AM
Are you kidding? They all say they want to secure the borders.
Name one candidate currently running who isn't advocating
securing the boarders.

Shortly after which (but probably before) they grant 12 to 20 million illegal aliens amnesty (cough, cough, Billary). This is all campaign speak. Billary was out there in California giving her worst impression of a Spanish speaker the other day. It's Simpson/Mazzoli all over again. Those candidates (all the Dems) who originally were totally behind the Kennedy/McCain amnesty package suddenly realized that the American people were pissed, so they simply changed their positions for the campaign. As soon as the election is over and a Dem goes into the WH, the borders are open, and we all know it.

Bronco Bob
01-25-2008, 10:41 AM
As soon as the election is over and a Dem goes into the WH, the borders are open, and we all know it.

We've had a Republican in the White House for 7 years now, 6 of which
the GOP controlled Congress, and I don't see anything getting done on
his watch. And who was the biggest advocate for amnesty? Hint:
It wasn't a Democratic president.

Rohirrim
01-25-2008, 10:52 AM
We've had a Republican in the White House for 7 years now, 6 of which
the GOP controlled Congress, and I don't see anything getting done on
his watch. And who was the biggest advocate for amnesty? Hint:
It wasn't a Democratic president.

Bush is a huge amnesty supporter. So is McCain. So is Tyson Chicken, Tropicana and a hundred other corporations. At least Billary might make a few token gestures of border control, after which it will disappear from her radar. After all, the Clinton's were champions of NAFTA, and NAFTA created (probably) more than half the illegal aliens we have in the country now, due to the fact that it destroyed farm prices in Mexico and drove people off the land. Obama will probably give them all free SS cards. The truth is, this is one issue where the government will refuse to carry out the will of the American people. Period. That's why I've given up on it.

Bob
01-25-2008, 02:45 PM
Are you kidding? They all say they want to secure the borders.
Name one candidate currently running who isn't advocating
securing the boarders.

But how many do you believe will do something?

Talk is cheap.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-26-2008, 01:29 AM
We've had a Republican in the White House for 7 years now, 6 of which
the GOP controlled Congress, and I don't see anything getting done on
his watch. And who was the biggest advocate for amnesty? Hint:
It wasn't a Democratic president.

http://www.bartcop.com/reagan-field.jpg