Marcus Thomas Analysis?

[Inkana7]

For the past few weeks I've heard things being flung around here about Marcus Thomas, how well he played this year considering how out of shape he was, and how he should be a monster for us next season.

Now, granted I didn't see every game(I live in Ohio and usually get ****ty browns or ravens games), but I did see most of them via torrents, and Thomas didn't really stand out that much to be aside from his sweet-ass interception and forced fumble of LenDale White.

So I ask our local experts and those who break down the film:

Tell me about Marcus Thomas. What he did good, and what makes people think he'll be a stud in the coming years?

Now, I really like Thomas and I fell that he'll be good for us, but I just didn't notice him this year like others have. So I'm just asking.

Thanks.

[yavoon]

from all I've heard he's gna be super awesome. which makes him like almost every other draftpick that hasn't done nething yet.

[Inkana7]

from all I've heard he's gna be super awesome. which makes him like almost every other draftpick that hasn't done nething yet.

Thanks for the contribution.

[sirhcyennek81]

from all I've heard he's gna be super awesome. which makes him like almost every other draftpick that hasn't done nething yet.


Jesus the grammar you use...


:Broncos:

[2KBack]

I basically know nothing about line play and what to watch for, I'm sure he showed flashes of something. I would venture to guess though, that a lot of the hype surrounding him is based on potential. He managed to crack the starting lineup as a rookie DT, which is pretty rare, but even more so that he hadn't played football in a year. I know we had scrubs at DT anyway, but it still tells us something about him. Also the fact that he was such a highly rated college player before his troubles fits into it as well. With DT's usually making their impact after their rookie years, and Marcus Thomas basically having 1st round talent, I think a lot of people are excited to see his progress for next season. Hopefully someone with technique knowledge can post an actual evaluation of his ability so far.

[Inkana7]

I basically know nothing about line play and what to watch for, I'm sure he showed flashes of something. I would venture to guess though, that a lot of the hype surrounding him is based on potential. He managed to crack the starting lineup as a rookie DT, which is pretty rare, but even more so that he hadn't played football in a year. I know we had scrubs at DT anyway, but it still tells us something about him. Also the fact that he was such a highly rated college player before his troubles fits into it as well. With DT's usually making their impact after their rookie years, and Marcus Thomas basically having 1st round talent, I think a lot of people are excited to see his progress for next season. Hopefully someone with technique knowledge can post an actual evaluation of his ability so far.


That's what I'm hopin' for.

Personally, I thought that after he was drafted that he was going to start next to Warren immediatly.

[yavoon]

Thanks for the contribution.

your welcome!

[broncos loveI]

It's really hard for me to get a analysis on Thomas this year. I watched every game this year, and nothing stands out ; besides he was in the starting lineup, alot of the games this year. If he is gone to be a good DT he needs to put on some weight and muscle mass. I can say one thing , he was only draft pick that didnt actually get hurt this year. So that is a postive.

[bpc]

For the past few weeks I've heard things being flung around here about Marcus Thomas, how well he played this year considering how out of shape he was, and how he should be a monster for us next season.

Now, granted I didn't see every game(I live in Ohio and usually get ****ty browns or ravens games), but I did see most of them via torrents, and Thomas didn't really stand out that much to be aside from his sweet-ass interception and forced fumble of LenDale White.

So I ask our local experts and those who break down the film:

Tell me about Marcus Thomas. What he did good, and what makes people think he'll be a stud in the coming years?

Now, I really like Thomas and I fell that he'll be good for us, but I just didn't notice him this year like others have. So I'm just asking.

Thanks.

I thought that Thomas showed a good motor the beginning part of 07' and he tailed off throughout the 2nd half of the season.

Why do I think he struggled a little bit? Our defense as a whole struggled badly. We basically had two different coordinators running two very difference systems all in this kids first year. I also think he was misused. From watching Thomas at UF, he is a penetrating style DT, who has a great initial quickness, nice pass rush moves and plays with a lot of power. Bates' scheme was such that he required Thomas to take offensive linemen straight on... basically negating his ability to grab and edge and run with it.

I think with an attacking scheme and the comfort of going into his 2nd year, Marcus Thomas should have a much improved 2008. That is my opinion. He has talent though. We have to channel that.

[lex]

I think he needs to improve his strength and in the upper body in particular. I loved the pick when we acquired him and I havent been displeased with him so far. But I also cant say with certainty that he will be super awesome based on this year. I really hope so. I think he has a chance but making good plays here and there isnt the mark of greatness as much as consistency is...and thats what rookies typically lack. Its hard to gauge but he was definitely an upgrade over the other DTs we had and that might make him look better too to some. Just because he is the best we got, doesnt make him good. Im really pulling for him though.

[bpc]

We also need to put more than just warm bodies around him. Hell, he might be doing really well but if he's being doubled every time because we can't get anybody to beat out Amon Gordon, we'll never know.

[broncos loveI]

We also need to put more than just warm bodies around him. Hell, he might be doing really well but if he's being doubled every time because we can't get anybody to beat out Amon Gordon, we'll never know.

I agree... Amon Gordon is nothing more than a practice squad player, imo.

[BroncoBuff]

I agree... Amon Gordon is nothing more than a practice squad player, imo.
That is 100% correct. I watched the DTs very closely all year via Tivo over and over - mostly because I was obsessed with how awful Amon Gordon was.

At any rate, Thomas was pretty bad at first too - vs. Jax especially - easily handled on single teams. But as the season progressed he got better and better. He was very good against Steelers (or maybe it was GB - a night game), and he started drawing more and more blocking help as the season progressed. Maybe it was the scrapping of the Bates system, I dunno.

But I'm a HUGE fan of his now ... I think he's the real deal, and I betcha 10 to 1 he keeps his nose clean. We better hope he does, we had the worst DTs in the league last year ... we need him to come up.

[montrose]

As a former OL and DL myself (HS and DIII College), I felt the praise of Thomas spoke volumes of our poor play. By occasionally causing stalemates opposed to being absoultly handled like our other DT's, Thomas was our best interior tackle for the duration of the season (although Kenny Peterson had his moments of occasionally not being handled). I do think Thomas has some potential, he's very athletic and could make to be a disruptive force down the line - but at this point in his career he's be no better than a #3 or #4 DT on a solid defense. That said, DL tend to make a jump from year 1 to year 2, so he could see a vast improvement.

Funny thing is, I'd be willing to bet that Engelberger, Dumervil, Thomas and McKinley look like the old Steel Curtain at practice against our pathetic OL.

[rugbythug]

That's what I'm hopin' for.

Personally, I thought that after he was drafted that he was going to start next to Warren immediatly.
Trevor Pryce didn't start at all as a rookie

[Inkana7]

Trevor Pryce didn't start at all as a rookie

I know. I was just stating my expectations at the beginning of the year.

[broncolife]

Trevor Pryce didn't start at all as a rookie


1997: Pryce played in the final eight games of the season and started three (at San Diego, 11/30; at Pittsburgh, 12/7 and vs. San Diego, 12/21) at right defensive tackle in place of Maa Tanuvasa (ankle). He was declared inactive for the first eight games. For the season he posted 28 tackles (20 solo), including two sacks (-9.5), as he notched a half a sack in each of his first two NFL appearances (Seattle, 11/2 and Carolina, 11/9), and his first solo vs. San Diego (12/21).

[BroncoBuff]

Sad thing about scrapping Bates and his system is we lost Gerard Warren for good.

When he was motivated and had 10 healthy toes, he was the second-best defensive player we had.

[bpc]

Sad thing about scrapping Bates and his system is we lost Gerard Warren for good.

When he was motivated and had 10 healthy toes, he was the second-best defensive player we had.

We ate $hit with the whole Bates' debacle. Gave away some solid players in the process of reaching on others. I'm just glad that Dumervil is still here because I have a feeling Bates didn't want him on the roster, felt his size was a liability.

Gerrard Warren would be light years more than what we have right now. Worst of all, he actually loved playing in Denver and was disappointed to leave.

[BroncoBuff]

Yup ... and surprisingly (to me anyway), he was 100% class on the way out the door.


Oh well.

[epicSocialism4tw]

We ate $hit with the whole Bates' debacle. Gave away some solid players in the process of reaching on others. I'm just glad that Dumervil is still here because I have a feeling Bates didn't want him on the roster, felt his size was a liability.

Gerrard Warren would be light years more than what we have right now. Worst of all, he actually loved playing in Denver and was disappointed to leave.

Agree with everything you said on this thread. Bates left a trail of destruction in his wake and its difficult to know who to blame from the outside. Having turnover and confusion on the line really screwed up the defense.

I agree with your eval of Thomas as well. He is very much the same player as Warren. Quick feet, good angles when he engages, etc. Thomas could end up a stalwart for the line as the pass-rushing DT, and that would be a great success from him as a 4th round pick.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

We ate $hit with the whole Bates' debacle. Gave away some solid players in the process of reaching on others. I'm just glad that Dumervil is still here because I have a feeling Bates didn't want him on the roster, felt his size was a liability.

Gerrard Warren would be light years more than what we have right now. Worst of all, he actually loved playing in Denver and was disappointed to leave.

The dumervil thing is pure speculation...c'mon

[wabbit]

Remember Dewayne Robertson...the inside pass rushing DT god that would be the model for the position into the next decade??

Last I heard, Dewayne was...hows that song go; 'stuck in the middle with you'...more aptly, postcards from the edge of oblivion in that Jets D-line.

Marcus Thomas is bigger than Robertson...I suspect he's faster...maybe quicker, although I don't know that for certain (I mean, c'mon...serving in that Jets D-line has to age anyone far beyond their years).

I read somewhere that #1 draft choice DT's bust more than #1 drafted QBs.

Thomas played well...not great...not even consistent, and yes, he faded as the season trudged on, but he was a rookie...an out-of-shape rookie, and, thank Jay-sus, he's not even remotely a bust...talk to Jarvis Moss about that '08 'comeback season' if you want a sniff of failure, or at least, the real possibility of it.

Thomas is more than everything the team hoped for, and has dispelled some of the concern about his character (time will tell with fame & fortune).

He is another reason I'm almost certain the team may actually focus (finally) on a top Safety, although I've learned there are some legit OT possibles at #12... AND, of course, assuming one of those damned RBs doesn't bait Shanahan into a foolhardy pick.

Thomas is the bomb...in a positive sort of way.

[bpc]

The dumervil thing is pure speculation...c'mon


A couple things make me think this... coming out from Summer Camp, Dumervil was listed on the third team depth chart within Bates' defense. Bates was also spearheading getting Simeon Rice in here to play defense over him. Also, why draft a taller version of Dumervil in Jarvis Moss? Both are potentially part-time players and you draft a guy because he is taller?

Doesn't add up to me. I think Bates' wasn't feeling Dumervil on his aggressive front four line. Didn't have the size, didn't have the weight. The fact that he was so willing to pitch Gerrard Warren easily proves my point at his outlandish thinking.

[Doggcow]

Dumervil got buffed in madden, he is a finnesse rusher now, he must be good!

[cutman0122]

Thanks for the post Wabbit. :thumbsup: Don't be shy and keep them coming!!:notworthy

[BroncoBuff]

I read somewhere that #1 draft choice DT's bust more than #1 drafted QBs.
Agreed ... they take longer to develop, too. In Thomas we have our young DT, so let's go FA at that position and avoid that bust ratio.

He is another reason I'm almost certain the team may actually focus (finally) on a top Safety, although I've learned there are some legit OT possibles at #12... AND, of course, assuming one of those damned RBs doesn't bait Shanahan into a foolhardy pick.
Agreed on RB ... don't use #12 on that, I think Travis Henry is scared to death of screwing up again, the baby-mama and drug test drama proly have him ready to take a pay cut and behave.

And I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm not too psyched for OT at #12. Maybe later ... Shanahan likes Pears, and Harris has upside. Plus Chris Kuper is apparently a possible fit at RT. Shanny said he could play "all the line positions," and he's earned the right to play somewhere. But with Myers, Hamilton and Holland we've already one too many guards.

Safety or Linebacker at 12. That's my vote.

[chrisp]

A couple things make me think this... coming out from Summer Camp, Dumervil was listed on the third team depth chart within Bates' defense. Bates was also spearheading getting Simeon Rice in here to play defense over him. Also, why draft a taller version of Dumervil in Jarvis Moss? Both are potentially part-time players and you draft a guy because he is taller?

Doesn't add up to me. I think Bates' wasn't feeling Dumervil on his aggressive front four line. Didn't have the size, didn't have the weight. The fact that he was so willing to pitch Gerrard Warren easily proves my point at his outlandish thinking.

I don't think the drafting of Moss was purely a bates thing and I don't think it was a sleight on Dumervil. I think the Broncos had identified a weakness in the D-line pass rush and took further steps to address it.

A few years ago we identified the secondary as a weakness. We got Champ in the trade but we still used multiple draft picks over the years. Thing is when you want to fix a problem you can't put all your eggs in one basket. At this point last year Dumervil was coming off a promising year but we've all seen how the pass rush in genernal continues to struggle with only one guy who can really get to the QB.

Having said that I do think that Bates was too bloody-minded about the scheme he wanted to run and the personnel he needed. I'm a great believer that when you're starting from scratch you run a scheme to fit the talent not the other way around, (untill you start to be successfull of course, at which point maybe the balance swings and you try to find the people to fit in with what you have).

Nobody here thinks Warren was all-pro but he was the best DT we had and Bates drummed him out of town. It seemed odd at the time, and now I see how much the other guys sucked and how classy Warren was about moving on, I'm tempted to believe it was a moment of pure insanity.....

But as far as Thomas goes, he was never going to do anything his first year. Its so unheard of for a rookie DT to make an impact its to his credit that he even got on the field. I have high hopes for him and last season gave some grounds for optimism but we still can't be sure if he's the real deal or not. bear in mind though, as a 4th round pick, if he turns out to be merely solid he was still good value. His upside has everyone pumped but we still need more d-line help to get to where we want to be.

[Beantown Bronco]

Sad thing about scrapping Bates and his system is we lost Gerard Warren for good.

When he was motivated and had 10 healthy toes, he was the second-best defensive player we had.

Let's not forget about Jimmy Kennedy either. That signing never made much sense to me when he was very vocal about wanting to leave St. Louis because they wanted him to be a Bates-type DT that plugs instead of penatrates.

The Broncos got rid of him a few weeks before they in theory abandoned Bates' scheme and started playing Slowik's scheme, which would've played right into Jimmy's strengths. I would've liked to have seen what he could do in Slowik's system.

[Drek]

A couple things make me think this... coming out from Summer Camp, Dumervil was listed on the third team depth chart within Bates' defense. Bates was also spearheading getting Simeon Rice in here to play defense over him. Also, why draft a taller version of Dumervil in Jarvis Moss? Both are potentially part-time players and you draft a guy because he is taller?

Doesn't add up to me. I think Bates' wasn't feeling Dumervil on his aggressive front four line. Didn't have the size, didn't have the weight. The fact that he was so willing to pitch Gerrard Warren easily proves my point at his outlandish thinking.

I'd agree with that assessment.

They made Dumervil fight for his PT all over again this year because a new DC came in and Doom didn't pass his eyeball test.

Doesn't mean getting Moss was a bad move, he's an impressive talent and his frame was filling out well last spring (up to 265 from 250) while still looking impressive in pre-season and camp. If he continues to add size without losing that impressive lateral mobility he could be a great every down DE.

But I do think he was brought in to basically take Doom's job. I don't know what it'll take for people to stop underselling Elvis' abilities, but now that we're going to an internal option for our defensive planning I'd think he won't face another useless depth chart climb.

[BroncoInferno]

he's not even remotely a bust...talk to Jarvis Moss about that '08 'comeback season' if you want a sniff of failure, or at least, the real possibility of it.

I don't think that's a fair statement given that he missed the bulk of the season due to an injury that was beyond his control.

[RaiderH8r]

My take on Thomas: He struggled early in the year. I think this is due to the fact that he had been out of football for awhile, the Broncos knew this and went ahead anyway. He has tremendous talent but needs some muscle mass and bulk. As the year went on he started to find his way a little bit but went through the usual rookie struggles. As the season wound down he, like most rookies, wasn't used to the grind that a 16 game schedule puts on a body and wore out a little bit.

All in all I like his quickness and motor. I think an NFL offseason training program will do him wonders. Get him a nutritionist and proper training regimen and his body will catch up. He's got the talent to do well he just needs to get his body whipped into NFL shape. I thought he played admirably and the fact that he was out of football for a year and still started and played respectable time was impressive, even for our roughshod DL. The next 2 years will give a proper impression of his skill level for the NFL but I say the kid has the ability and has earned a shot to get more PT due to his hard work and keeping his word, i.e. staying out of trouble. He's on the right path to make great strides.

He played a little timid this year, going 90% trying not to screw up. When he gets his feet under him and gets going 110% and gets his brain out of the way he'll do well.

[cmhargrove]

I think we had some real problems meshing the Bates system because we were also asking position coaches to teach something they weren't used to as well. I keep telling myself that we hired Bill Johnson from Atlanta, and he ran a pretty intense, attacking style of defense. I feel like we were better suited for this type of play, but everyone had to scrap plans and go with Bates' ideas. It was worth a try, but it didn't work with our personnel.

Look at Atlanta a couple years back. Their D-line was pretty viscious. They may not have been stellar against the run, but they knew how to attack the QB, get sacks, and limit passing yards. Hopefully, we can use some of Johnson's techniques to attack a little more aggressively (and use guys like Elvis and Jarvis to their full potential).

I think Marcus should be more of a force if he is allowed to shoot gaps and disrupt plays. I believe with our given personnel, it will lead to more tackles for loss, int's, and improved linebacker play.

[Drek]

I don't think that's a fair statement given that he missed the bulk of the season due to an injury that was beyond his control.

Its also an injury that might have robbed him some of his best assets as a pass rusher.

If Moss gets back 100% then I think he can be a very good player, even an every down DE as he's one of the few guys often described as "having the frame to add weight" who actually followed up on the promise. But thats a big if when so much of his game is predicated on superior speed and lateral mobility and he had a messy leg injury.

[Dedhed]

I think that if you look at the whole picture, Thomas had a pretty impressive season. Start with the fact that rookie DTs almost always struggle with the adjustment, and then add in that Thomas was coming off an extended layoff and entering a scheme that was completely different from that which he played in college.

I thought that during the last month month of the season he was starting to be a disrptive type of player for us. Even though he didn't make many plays that just make you go "wow", if you watch closely he had a lot of plays where he forced either the QB or the RB into another area, and that's where good line play starts. I think the future is bright for Thomas, and if we get him some help inside I think he coud be a very good player for us.

[rugbythug]

Its also an injury that might have robbed him some of his best assets as a pass rusher.

If Moss gets back 100% then I think he can be a very good player, even an every down DE as he's one of the few guys often described as "having the frame to add weight" who actually followed up on the promise. But thats a big if when so much of his game is predicated on superior speed and lateral mobility and he had a messy leg injury.

I thought he Broke his Fibula? That is not a messy leg injury at all.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Its also an injury that might have robbed him some of his best assets as a pass rusher.

If Moss gets back 100% then I think he can be a very good player, even an every down DE as he's one of the few guys often described as "having the frame to add weight" who actually followed up on the promise. But thats a big if when so much of his game is predicated on superior speed and lateral mobility and he had a messy leg injury.

Moss' leg injury shouldnt be a problem in the long run, but neither should have his infection. He's an interesting case. Nothing's for sure there.

He certainly has the highest ceiling of any DE on the roster, but this could be another Toviessi situation.

If he could get on the field with a sure set of wheels under him, I have no doubt that he could be a force. His raw talent is impressive. It seems as with most Shanny acquisitions of late that there are more questions than answers though.

[BroncoBuff]

He certainly has the highest ceiling of any DE on the roster, but this could be another Toviessi situation.
The "T" word? ... The TEE WORD?!

Dammit llama, now if this guy goes south, I will blame you.

[epicSocialism4tw]

The "T" word? ... The TEE WORD?!

Dammit llama, now if this guy goes south, I will blame you.

:rofl:

[Cito Pelon]

I basically know nothing about line play and what to watch for, I'm sure he showed flashes of something. I would venture to guess though, that a lot of the hype surrounding him is based on potential. He managed to crack the starting lineup as a rookie DT, which is pretty rare, but even more so that he hadn't played football in a year. I know we had scrubs at DT anyway, but it still tells us something about him. Also the fact that he was such a highly rated college player before his troubles fits into it as well. With DT's usually making their impact after their rookie years, and Marcus Thomas basically having 1st round talent, I think a lot of people are excited to see his progress for next season. Hopefully someone with technique knowledge can post an actual evaluation of his ability so far.

Where this **** comes from, I don't know. There's literally thousands of DT's that have started in their rookie year and a thousand more that made an impact in their rookie year.

Thomas didn't show any sort of special talent at all. He's ok, but I wouldn't expect to see him as an All-Pro at any time.

[rugbythug]

Where this **** comes from, I don't know. There's literally thousands of DT's that have started in their rookie year and a thousand more that made an impact in their rookie year.

Thomas didn't show any sort of special talent at all. He's ok, but I wouldn't expect to see him as an All-Pro at any time.
Thousands?
2 dt starting Postions per team
32 Teams

So for the last 15 years every team has had a DT who was not only a Rookie Starter. But also made an Impact.

Wow how did I miss that trend.

[2KBack]

Where this **** comes from, I don't know. There's literally thousands of DT's that have started in their rookie year and a thousand more that made an impact in their rookie year.

Thomas didn't show any sort of special talent at all. He's ok, but I wouldn't expect to see him as an All-Pro at any time.

With a response like that, I think you are going to need to back it up with a few DT's that have made a major impact in their rookie year.

[maher_tyler]

Agreed ... they take longer to develop, too. In Thomas we have our young DT, so let's go FA at that position and avoid that bust ratio.


Agreed on RB ... don't use #12 on that, I think Travis Henry is scared to death of screwing up again, the baby-mama and drug test drama proly have him ready to take a pay cut and behave.

And I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm not too psyched for OT at #12. Maybe later ... Shanahan likes Pears, and Harris has upside. Plus Chris Kuper is apparently a possible fit at RT. Shanny said he could play "all the line positions," and he's earned the right to play somewhere. But with Myers, Hamilton and Holland we've already one too many guards.

Safety or Linebacker at 12. That's my vote.

As much as i liked DJ's progress at MLB i think we draft MLB and move DJ back to the weakside...IMO.

[Broncos_OTM]

A couple things make me think this... coming out from Summer Camp, Dumervil was listed on the third team depth chart within Bates' defense. Bates was also spearheading getting Simeon Rice in here to play defense over him. Also, why draft a taller version of Dumervil in Jarvis Moss? Both are potentially part-time players and you draft a guy because he is taller?

Doesn't add up to me. I think Bates' wasn't feeling Dumervil on his aggressive front four line. Didn't have the size, didn't have the weight. The fact that he was so willing to pitch Gerrard Warren easily proves my point at his outlandish thinking.

I dissaggree there is nothing about Dumervil and Moss that ar e the same. Dumervil is REALLY strong. i heard he did like 32 reps at the combine or close to which is DT strong. and remember he has really long arms.remember the coaches wanted to play him at DT his rookie year on the inside.

While Moss had 16 reps.

Dumervil rarely got hurt. Moss it has been following him around that he could be a career injury

Dumervil Produced at a crazy leval in college. Moss not so much he had 7 sacks his junior year or sr i cant remember and 3 of them were in one game. there are alot of differances

[Drek]

I thought he Broke his Fibula? That is not a messy leg injury at all.

I probably should've said "messy injury history" to be more accurate.

He broke his shin from what I've read, the fact that it cost him the better part of a year is pretty scary as well. Most broken bones in the NFL heal pretty quickly. For a guy who's missed as much football as he has already, and who's game is so predicated on superior mobility than the guy opposite him, any leg injury is a concern.

[Dedhed]

I probably should've said "messy injury history" to be more accurate.

He broke his shin from what I've read, the fact that it cost him the better part of a year is pretty scary as well. Most broken bones in the NFL heal pretty quickly. For a guy who's missed as much football as he has already, and who's game is so predicated on superior mobility than the guy opposite him, any leg injury is a concern.
You've heard wrong. Moss fractured his Fibula, which is very painful, but not a long term concern. He'll probably be 100% by March if he isn't already back near full speed.