View Full Version : Dobbs: Our leaders have squandered our wealth
Dudeskey
01-23-2008, 02:49 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/22/Dobbs.January23/index.html
NEW YORK (CNN) -- President Bush's assurances that we'll all be "just fine" if he and Congress can work out an economic stimulus package seem a little hollow this morning.
Much like Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben Bernanke's assurances last May that the subprime mortgage meltdown would be contained and not affect the broader economy. And it seems Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has spent most of the past year trying to influence Chinese economic policy rather than setting the direction of U.S. economic policy.
There is no question that Bush, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid will quickly come up with an economic stimulus package simply because they can no longer ignore our economic and financial crisis. That economic stimulus plan will amount to about 1 percent of our nation's gross domestic product, an estimated $150 billion.
But all of us should recognize that the stimulus package will be inadequate to drive sustainable growth in our $13 trillion economy. An emergency Fed rate cut and an economic stimulus plan are short-term responses to our complex economic problems, nothing more than bandages for a hemorrhaging economy.
Bush, Pelosi, Reid and the presidential candidates of both parties have an opportunity now, and I believe an obligation, to adjust the public policy mistakes of the past quarter-century that have led to this crisis. And only through courageous policy decisions will we be able to steer this nation's economy away from the brink of outright disaster.
We all have to acknowledge that our problems were in part brought on by the failure of our government to regulate the institutions and markets that are now in crisis. The irresponsible fiscal policies of the past decade have led to a national debt that amounts to $9 trillion. The irresponsible so-called free trade policies of Democratic and Republican administrations over the past three decades have produced a trade debt that now amounts to more than $6 trillion, and that debt is rising faster than our national debt. All of which is contributing to the plunge in the value of the U.S. dollar.
At precisely the point in our history in which this nation has become ever more dependent on foreign producers for everything from clothing to computers to technology to energy, our weakened dollar is making the price of an ever-increasing number of imported goods even more expensive.
All Americans will soon have to face a bitter and now obvious truth: Our national, political and economic leaders have squandered this nation's wealth, and the price of this profligacy is enormous, and the bill has just come due for all of us.
Bernanke endorsed the concept of a short-term economic stimulus package, but he cautioned that the money must be spent correctly: "You'd hope that [consumers] would spend it on things that are domestically produced so that the spending power doesn't go elsewhere."
Just what would you have us spend it on? The truth is that consumers spend most of their money on foreign imports, and any stimulus package probably would be stimulating foreign economies rather than our own. Imports, for example, account for 92 percent of our non-athletic footwear, 92 percent of audio video equipment, 89 percent of our luggage and 73 percent of power tools. In fact, between 1997 and 2006, only five of the 114 industries examined in a U.S. Business and Industry Council report gained market share against import competition.
And let's be honest and straightforward, as I hope our president and the candidates for president will be: This stimulus will not prevent a recession. It may ease the pain for millions of Americans, but a recession we will have. The question is how deep, how prolonged and how painful will it be. Unfortunately, we're about to find out how committed and capable our national leaders are at mitigating that pain and producing realistic policy decisions for this nation that now stands at the brink.
Dobbs' likely prescription is a dose of tariffs, quotas and other forms of protectionism.
He's wrong.
TailgateNut
01-23-2008, 02:59 PM
I'm spending my "stimulus" on BEEF! American BEEF! None of that overpriced massaged Kobe' BEEF. :strong:
TailgateNut
01-23-2008, 03:00 PM
...and GUNS. American Made Guns!:thanku:
Spider
01-23-2008, 03:01 PM
Dobbs' likely prescription is a dose of tariffs, quotas and other forms of protectionism.
He's wrong. yeah , he is , we need to get rid of our poor people and elderly , they are sucking up more money then they are worth , with SS , medicade , Medicare , welfare ...... time to kick them out in the cold and let them make it on their own, right W*GS
Hotrod
01-23-2008, 03:15 PM
I'd either spend my "stimulus" on
1. lotto tickets
or
2. guns/canned goods
TailgateNut
01-23-2008, 03:20 PM
I'got plenty of dry goods and canned goods. My wife always asks me if I'm preparing for a war.
Little does she know!:strong:
I wonder what they neighbors will think when I bring home a couple head of cattle!ROFL!
TheDave
01-23-2008, 03:20 PM
Vegas Baby...
Bet Big...Win Big :thumbs:
TailgateNut
01-23-2008, 03:20 PM
Vegas Baby...
Bet Big...Win Big :thumbs:
Righto!
Dudeskey
01-23-2008, 03:21 PM
option 2...®
Bronco Jamus
01-23-2008, 03:23 PM
My company laid off another 200 people today because of this mess. The Fed is giving the banks money, but the banks are hording it to cover for their poor lending ways.
Hotrod
01-23-2008, 03:25 PM
Another option is presious metals. The only problem is gold/silver are so damn expensive. I'm looking at my budget and thinking I might be able to invest in aluminum :)
Bronco Bob
01-23-2008, 03:36 PM
Another option is presious metals. The only problem is gold/silver are so damn expensive. I'm looking at my budget and thinking I might be able to invest in aluminum :)
I have a bunch of soda cans in my recycle bin I'll sell you. ;)
Or maybe you could buy some red mercury from Gaffney.
alkemical
01-23-2008, 05:40 PM
I bought a lotto ticket today
Spider
01-23-2008, 05:47 PM
Check this out , the Indian Res up here in Wind River can have Casinos , but the leaders of this state in all of their infinite wisdom decided having a Lotto and scratch games would lead to crime ...... and just for the record , this is the same state that thinks Romney would be a great leader
Hotrod
01-23-2008, 05:49 PM
I have a bunch of soda cans in my recycle bin I'll sell you. ;)
Or maybe you could buy some red mercury from Gaffney.
I was thinking more along the lines of this stuff. Its readily available and stores in a limited area.
http://www.foodservicedirect.com/productimages/WE632REYNs.jpg
I'm using my $800 to stay at a Holiday Inn Express for a night.
Hotrod
01-23-2008, 05:58 PM
Check this out , the Indian Res up here in Wind River can have Casinos , but the leaders of this state in all of their infinite wisdom decided having a Lotto and scratch games would lead to crime ...... and just for the record , this is the same state that thinks Romney would be a great leader
LOL you backwards bastards
elsid13
01-23-2008, 06:18 PM
Watched Dobbs last night on this subject. One of his guest pointed out that 80% what is bought by Amercians is made by American (I don't have his source data) and that 6% GDP goes oversea.
Instead of putting up protection barriers, I think the US Gov should be more aggressive in forcing other countries in lower their trade barrier they have in place and to put in labor and enviroment laws that help the entire world.
more aggressive in forcing other countries in lower their trade barrier they have in place and to put in labor and enviroment laws that help the entire world.
We need to stop telling the rest of the world what to do besides we can't even do that in our own country.
elsid13
01-23-2008, 06:27 PM
more aggressive in forcing other countries in lower their trade barrier they have in place and to put in labor and enviroment laws that help the entire world.
We need to stop telling the rest of the world what to do besides we can't even do that in our own country.
The WTO was set by a number of countries to do just that. Free trade on level playing field is good for everyone. Beside open markets have been one pillar that this country foreign policy was found on.
WTO is, as you note, a coalition of countries not just us telling every other nation what to do.
Besides we are so far in debt with the trading partners that most meed to change their practices that they would just laugh at us.
elsid13
01-23-2008, 06:33 PM
WTO is, as you note, a coalition of countries not just us telling every other nation what to do.
In reality it is establish frame work that US Gov should use to push the open of markets and labor standards. There is no reason that the French should be allowed to enforce tariffs on US food products, if we don' do the same to them.
Well i say treat them as they treat us.
We will not get very far in todays world by threats. The reality is we are not as respected or as powerful as in the past.
Spider
01-23-2008, 07:41 PM
LOL you backwards bastards
LOL yeah there are times I just shake my head in amazment
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 08:01 PM
My company laid off another 200 people today because of this mess. The Fed is giving the banks money, but the banks are hording it to cover for their poor lending ways.
Yep.
The folks at BushCo are taking care of their hedge fund manager buddies first.
The financial hucksters whose crooked ponzi schemes created the economic mess we're experiencing right now are getting bailed out by BushCo, and the rest of us are supposed to receive the usual trickle-down.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 08:53 PM
yeah , he is , we need to get rid of our poor people and elderly , they are sucking up more money then they are worth , with SS , medicade , Medicare , welfare ...... time to kick them out in the cold and let them make it on their own, right W*GS
Bingo. :yep:
We've already tried it W*GS' way, and the results were S&L scandals, Enron and Katrina.
http://www.bartcop.com/what-got-mine.jpg
We've already tried it W*GS' way, and the results were S&L scandals, Enron and Katrina.
Snort. Wrong, wrong, and wrong. As usual.
Humanity has already suffered plenty from your ideology - we got the gulag, the labor camps, the killing fields, and 100 million corpses.
Bronco Bob
01-23-2008, 09:25 PM
Snort. Wrong, wrong, and wrong. As usual.
Humanity has already suffered plenty from your ideology - we got the gulag, the labor camps, the killing fields, and 100 million corpses.
And with your way we got the Crucifixion, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition,
the Conquistadors, the Salem witch trials, Wounded Knee, slavery, the Ludlow
mining massacre, the Great Depression, the Nazi death camps, Robber Barons,
banana republics, the Shah of Iran, the invasion of Iraq, and now maybe
even the collapse of the dollar.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 09:25 PM
Not surprisingly, instead of explaining why I am wrong, W*GS simply erects another straw man.
:oyvey:
spdirty
01-23-2008, 09:28 PM
what a bunch of bullshlt. First off, it was my ex wife that squandered my wealth.
SoCalBronco
01-23-2008, 09:32 PM
Please no rebate or stimulus package of any kind.
And with your way we got the Crucifixion, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Conquistadors, the Salem witch trials, Wounded Knee, slavery, the Ludlow mining massacre, the Great Depression, the Nazi death camps, Robber Barons, banana republics, the Shah of Iran, the invasion of Iraq, and now maybe even the collapse of the dollar.
Apparently the strawman of my argument didn't make the same impression on you that LABF's strawman made on me.
Oh, and you forgot the heartbreak of psoriasis and teenage pimples.
Bronco Bob
01-23-2008, 09:50 PM
Apparently the strawman of my argument didn't make the same impression on you that LABF's strawman made on me.
Oh, and you forgot the heartbreak of psoriasis and teenage pimples.
So your contention that the greed that caused the suffering and death of
millions is equivalent to a mere skin condition.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 09:51 PM
Maybe W*GS can explain how his economic philosophy differs from the supply-siders and the "free market as government" Rand Institute types?
(I realize I'm probably asking too much here.)
Not surprisingly, instead of explaining why I am wrong, W*GS simply erects another straw man.
You need to explain why you're right, first.
Show me how the taxpayer-backed FDIC and FSLIC programs (which were the root cause of the S&L mess) are typical of libertarian free-market capitalism.
Show me how the botched "deregulation" of energy markets, which led to Enron, are typical of libertarian free-market capitalism.
Show me how decades of mismanagement of the Mississippi under the US Army Corps of Engineers is typical of libertarian free-market capitalism.
Your strawman got no straw.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 09:53 PM
So your contention that the greed that caused the suffering and death of
millions is equivalent to a mere skin condition.
Ha!
Not to mention that he keeps ignoring your point re: my position on the libertarian/authoritarian axis and how this contradicts his goofy "Stalin" characterizations.
So your contention that the greed that caused the suffering and death of millions is equivalent to a mere skin condition.
First you need to show that all those things were the result of greed, and how that applies to my political and economic ideology.
Ha!
Not to mention that he keeps ignoring your point re: my position on the libertarian/authoritarian axis and how this contradicts his goofy "Stalin" characterizations.
Now do you understand how goofy you are when you call me a Bush supporter, or one of backers, or some other such crapola?
Maybe W*GS can explain how his economic philosophy differs from the supply-siders and the "free market as government" Rand Institute types?
A government that kept to its strictly and narrowly defined Constitutional role would be much preferable to what we have now.
If you want to label that as "supply side" or "free market as government" (whatever the hell that means), feel free to do so, but then you'd be a dope.
Bronco Bob
01-23-2008, 09:58 PM
Ha!
Not to mention that he keeps ignoring your point re: my position on the libertarian/authoritarian axis and how this contradicts his goofy "Stalin" characterizations.
The point I was trying to make with him is that each instance I
cited was a result of unchecked greed and selfishness. I've got
mine and I want yours too. As opposed to having an attitude
of, well I have plenty, maybe I should give a little to someone
who doesn't have as much. Anyone remember a character
from English literature whose first name was Ebenezer?
Bronco Bob
01-23-2008, 09:59 PM
First you need to show that all those things were the result of greed, and how that applies to my political and economic ideology.
If you can't figure that out on your own, all the showing in the world isn't going
to help you.
The point I was trying to make with him is that each instance I cited was a result of unchecked greed and selfishness.
I've never heard of the Catholic Church during its Inquisition phase, being described as "selfish".
All you've done is come up with a laundry list of bad things and labeled them as being results of "unchecked greed and selfishness", without showing them to be either of those things in any way.
I can label them as examples of collectivism run amok, and be on much firmer ground.
If you can't figure that out on your own, all the showing in the world isn't going to help you.
Attempting the same non-move in a game of dodgeball will give you a bloody nose. The ol' "If you don't know, then I ain't gonna show you" is juvenile and pathetic.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 10:06 PM
"Goofy" to call W*GS a Bush supporter given his position on the horizontal axis?
(To say nothing of the countless hours he has spent defending nearly every move Bush has made on this forum?)
:laugh: That's funny.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 10:09 PM
The point I was trying to make with him is that each instance I
cited was a result of unchecked greed and selfishness. I've got
mine and I want yours too. As opposed to having an attitude
of, well I have plenty, maybe I should give a little to someone
who doesn't have as much. Anyone remember a character
from English literature whose first name was Ebenezer?
Yep.
Anyone who has read W*GS' posts over time can see that there is no fundamental difference between W*GS' economic philosophy and the "get government off our backs" and "government is the problem" ethos of the Red Ink Reagan revolution that paved the way for the S&L scandal, Enron, and Katrina.
Anyone who has read W*GS' posts over time can see that there is no fundamental difference between W*GS' economic philosophy and the "get government off our backs" and "government is the problem" ethos of the Red Ink Reagan revolution that paved the way for the S&L scandal, Enron, and Katrina.
Bull****.
"Goofy" to call W*GS a Bush supporter given his position on the horizontal axis?
Your position on the horizontal axis makes you a Stalinist clone.
Fair is fair. You dump ****, I'll throw it right back atcha.
(To say nothing of the countless hours he has spent defending nearly every move Bush has made on this forum?)
Find one single post that of mine that defends Bush. Just one.
Provide the URL so we can all read it.
Otherwise, you're just another pathetic liar - but we already knew that.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 10:16 PM
Um, no.
In order to be a "Stalinist clone," I would need to be high on the vertical axis, i.e., highly authoritarian.
Surely you're not so dense as to not understand this?
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 10:18 PM
Find a single post of yours where you defend Bush?
Are you kidding me?
Your capacity to deny such a well-established, well-known pattern and history on your part is astounding.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 10:25 PM
Anyway, W*GS, as usual, would like to make this thread (just like every thread) all about him...but back to the subject...
http://www.bartcop.com/big-bear-surprise.jpg
Is anyone surprised the super-rich are celebrating? Bush gave them billions in extra cash and with the coming crash, they can buy property and companies for 10 cents on the dollar and fire the employees and sell the assets.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 10:26 PM
http://www.bartcop.com/econ-levee.jpg
orinjkrush
01-23-2008, 10:32 PM
too much power concentrated either in small circles in government or in business is lethal.
the brilliance of our constitutional experiment was to fracture and cast that power to the four winds (or 3 branches) and then mostly to the States.
too much bidness power and you get Enron. (or maybe not enough power...lol)
too much gubment power and you get the KGB
Neither is good for common, decent folks, just tryin to live and raise families .
figgerin out the sweet spot in between is the real issue. Nobody has that worked out yet. Least of all the RNC or the DNC. (dialation and cuterage)
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 10:33 PM
Please no rebate or stimulus package of any kind.
http://www.bartcop.com/800-genius.jpg
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-23-2008, 10:38 PM
too much bidness power and you get Enron. (or maybe not enough power...lol)
too much gubment power and you get the KGB
That's pretty close to my position.
According to W*GS, this makes me a "Stalinist."
Welcome, comrade! :welcome:
http://www.bartcop.com/pros-800-screwed.JPG
So your contention that the greed that caused the suffering and death of
millions is equivalent to a mere skin condition.
Well it is the heard break of psoriasis.
I just keep wondering when we the people are going to wake up and realize all of this borrowing and spending is going to ruin us and therefore we need truly fiscally conservative representatives in D.C. This, 'we want what we want and we want it now' attitude and consequences be damned has got to stop. I really believe that the only person running for president who has the will and conviction to try to right the ship is Dr. Paul. We 've given over to much money and power to the federal govt and it wont be easy to get it back until we start electing people who truly believe in our constitution and respect the limits that document places upon it. jmho
alkemical
01-24-2008, 08:04 AM
Come on Reb, don't you realize that it appears the MAJORITY of people don't want that.
Um, no.
In order to be a "Stalinist clone," I would need to be high on the vertical axis, i.e., highly authoritarian.
Another instance of your intellectual dishonesty.
You label me a Bush supporter because of my position on the horizontal axis relative to Bush's position; doing the same with you and Stalin makes the two of you bosom buddies. You reject that because you and Stalin are far apart on the vertical axis. However, Bush and I are far apart on the vertical axis too - but that's not reason enough for you.
Basically, you attempt to pick whatever arbitrary metric you want to label me a Bushbot, but refuse to accept the same metric that labels you a Stalinist.
You're a hypocrite, in addition to being a liar.
Find a single post of yours where you defend Bush?
Are you kidding me?
Nope.
Your capacity to deny such a well-established, well-known pattern and history on your part is astounding.
If it's so obvious, it ought to be easy.
Just do it.
Or, apologize for spreading lies.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-24-2008, 09:17 AM
Ha ha ha! :laugh:
Yeah, W*GS, we know you don't always agree with Bush on social issues, but that obviously hasn't stopped you from defending the frat boy's economic policies and siding with the Bush supporters on this forum in the lion's share of discussions - regardless of topic.
Yeah, W*GS, we know you don't always agree with Bush on social issues,
Thanks for the faint compliment. Put it this way - I agree with Bush on social issues less than you do. Where does that leave you?
but that obviously hasn't stopped you from defending the frat boy's economic policies
Such as? Provide a list of URLs of my posts that defend Bush's economic policies. Just because Bush and I are on the right half of the left/right scale doesn't mean I agree with him on all economic matters - any more than any of the other OM posters in the right half, or the other people located there, do.
and siding with the Bush supporters on this forum in the lion's share of discussions - regardless of topic.
Mocking lefties like you doesn't mean being a Bush supporter.
Ro and I are closer to each other than you and Ro are. How does that fit in your universe? Can it?
orinjkrush
01-24-2008, 03:42 PM
I just keep wondering when we the people are going to wake up and realize all of this borrowing and spending is going to ruin us and therefore we need truly fiscally conservative representatives in D.C. This, 'we want what we want and we want it now' attitude and consequences be damned has got to stop. I really believe that the only person running for president who has the will and conviction to try to right the ship is Dr. Paul. We 've given over to much money and power to the federal govt and it wont be easy to get it back until we start electing people who truly believe in our constitution and respect the limits that document places upon it. jmho
dont think its gonna happen. democracies went bankrupt in ancient Greece when they figgered out they could vote themselves the largess of the treasury.