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View Full Version : Can we finally agree that Marshall is a legitimate number one?


Kaylore
01-22-2008, 06:52 PM
A lot of people were split on this guy. One poster even said he wouldn't be convinced until he had a 200 yard, 3 touchdown game. So where are we (Bronconation) on this guy?

bronco militia
01-22-2008, 06:53 PM
who the hell is split on this guy?

bronco militia
01-22-2008, 06:54 PM
he's the best player on the offense not named Jay Cutler

SonOfLe-loLang
01-22-2008, 06:55 PM
who is arguing this? what more does he need to do?

Man-Goblin
01-22-2008, 06:55 PM
He's a number 1 and I believe will be a top 5 receiver in the league for years to come. One of the best receivers after the catch that I have ever seen.

Kaylore
01-22-2008, 06:56 PM
Hold your horses, people! There is a poll!

Kaylore
01-22-2008, 06:57 PM
He's a number 1 and I believe will be a top 5 receiver in the league for years to come. One of the best receivers after the catch that I have ever seen.

Boy ain't that the truth. His abilities after the catch are so much fun to watch.

Killericon
01-22-2008, 06:57 PM
Yes.

oubronco
01-22-2008, 07:04 PM
Boy ain't that the truth. His abilities after the catch are so much fun to watch.

Hell Yeah

BroncoBuff
01-22-2008, 07:07 PM
he's the best player on the offense not named Jay Cutler
I agree with everything except "not named Jay Cutler."

Kaylore
01-22-2008, 07:11 PM
To play devil's advocate here, some would argue with character issues that he still has a lot of growing up to do. There is also the argument that Ashley Lelie put up a 1000+ yard season too and look where he is. No one is concerned about this at all? I admit I am a little, but am more concerned what kind of person we'll get when it comes to a new contract.

DBroncos4life
01-22-2008, 07:16 PM
To play devil's advocate here, some would argue with character issues that he still has a lot of growing up to do. There is also the argument that Ashley Lelie put up a 1000+ yard season too and look where he is. No one is concerned about this at all? I admit I am a little, but am more concerned what kind of person we'll get when it comes to a new contract.

I agree, you could point out that he drops a fair amount of passes as well. He does carry himself like a number one WR, and for the most part he backs it up. For a young WR like himself to finish with the stats he did it appears that the sky is the limit, lets just hope that his ego does though. I have no problem with WRs that like to bring extra to the field. I just hope its on the field and not messing with things in the locker room.

chrisp
01-22-2008, 07:42 PM
I love Brandon, think he was a real asset last year, and have high hopes for the future but one good season does not a star make.

I want to anoint him but I'm still smarting from the fact that i thought Ashley had 'arrived' after he had his 1000 -yard season so I can't do it just yet.

I AM extremely optimistic though.......

rovolution
01-22-2008, 07:43 PM
Brandon, Tony, Elvis, and Jay...The Future of the Denver Broncos

worm
01-22-2008, 07:46 PM
Drafted in the fourth round...119 overall? Sounds like a 'reach' when you read his draft reports.

Just great. ::) Thanks a lot Mike and Ted!


POSITIVES: King-sized possession wideout who may eventually develop into a tight end. Physical, outmuscles opponents and comes away with the reception. Consistently extends and catches the ball away from his frame. Offers the quarterback a nice target, has soft hands and plays with excellent body control. Adequate blocker downfield.

NEGATIVES: Overall game lacks quickness and speed. Marginal route-runner.

ANALYSIS: Displaying significant improvement as a senior, Marshall presents himself as a receiver used in third down or red-zone situations at the next level.

PROJECTION: Late Sixth Round

Ironlung
01-22-2008, 07:50 PM
I love Brandon, think he was a real asset last year, and have high hopes for the future but one good season does not a star make.

I want to anoint him but I'm still smarting from the fact that i thought Ashley had 'arrived' after he had his 1000 -yard season so I can't do it just yet.

I AM extremely optimistic though.......

1000 yards isnt as spectacular as 102 catches.

eddie mac
01-22-2008, 07:52 PM
IMHO he is gonna be one of the best WR's we've ever had. Plus it's not just Bronco fans who are drooling over this kid, opposition fans think he's the business as well.

eddie mac
01-22-2008, 07:53 PM
1000 yards isnt as spectacular as 102 catches.


Especially with the 0.7 secs Cutler got to throw the ball on most passing downs.:D

Hogan11
01-22-2008, 08:00 PM
Losing the "Baby TO" persona would go a very long way to making me at ease with him. I was the one who wanted to see a career game from him along the lines that Jay had a couple of games this season....I won't back away from that if indeed I was the one you're so thinly calling out to pick the scab off this whole debate again Kay.

He's come a long way toward being a legit #1 obivously...whether he's supplanted Javon in that role remains to be seen IF Walker is kept and he's able to go at 2006 strength, I fully expect a training camp/preseason battle for that spot that will be highly entertaining to say the least.

In the meantime, how many times do I have to go on record as being highly distrustful of prima donnas? They almost always cause a team trouble at some point...I really don't see where that can be argued. If he loses the whole "Baby TO" thing and doesn't pull a Portis (demand a new contract), then I will be a 100% believer...till then, I'll always approach this new God of the Mane with suspicion.

Flame away if you wish, makes no difference to me.

bronco militia
01-22-2008, 08:05 PM
I agree with everything except "not named Jay Cutler."

jake plummer retired....get over it

;D

BroncoBuff
01-22-2008, 08:16 PM
IMHO he is gonna be one of the best WR's we've ever had. Plus it's not just Bronco fans who are drooling over this kid, opposition fans think he's the business as well.
Funny ... I think he's probably already the best WR we've ever had. His yac is INSANE, he the best run-after-catch WR in the league, hands down. It's a freaking miracle he didn't pop 3 or 4 more to the house. His numbers this year, for a 7-9 team with no #2 receiver, are equally insane.

Sure, Rod and Eddie each snagged 100 balls in 2000, but they had one another, plus a 1,487 yard runing back in Mike Anderson.

Drek
01-22-2008, 08:24 PM
Amazing talent as a receiver and I love how he blocks, but lets see him do it again next year before we "crown his ass" as Denny Green would say.

Bronco Jamus
01-22-2008, 08:29 PM
Marshall is a mix of possession receiver and game breaker. He hits people when he blocks. He's a football player.

rastaman
01-22-2008, 08:57 PM
A lot of people were split on this guy. One poster even said he wouldn't be convinced until he had a 200 yard, 3 touchdown game. So where are we (Bronconation) on this guy?

I'd say the jury is still out on Marshall. I say this b/c last season, Brandon sort of snuck up and surprised everyone and the teams Denver played.

This season will be different! Marshall will attract double teams, especially if he does not have the luxury of playing along side a WR like a healthy Javon Walker!

Marshall's break out year and a pro-ball appearance this year all hinges on whether or not he doubled team or not! Marshall will need several factors to come too frutition.

Brandon will need to have Stokely remain healthy and have an even better performance at the slot position than last year.

Brandon will need a healthy Javon Walker or have Javon Walkers replacement be an impact WR.

Lastly, Brandon has to hope that Denver has solved its weak injury riddled O-line, is revamped and improved enough to allow Cutler time to get him the ball and for Cutler to stay HEALTHY!:~ohyah!:

Kaylore
01-22-2008, 09:06 PM
Losing the "Baby TO" persona would go a very long way to making me at ease with him. I was the one who wanted to see a career game from him along the lines that Jay had a couple of games this season....I won't back away from that if indeed I was the one you're so thinly calling out to pick the scab off this whole debate again Kay.

He's come a long way toward being a legit #1 obivously...whether he's supplanted Javon in that role remains to be seen IF Walker is kept and he's able to go at 2006 strength, I fully expect a training camp/preseason battle for that spot that will be highly entertaining to say the least.

In the meantime, how many times do I have to go on record as being highly distrustful of prima donnas? They almost always cause a team trouble at some point...I really don't see where that can be argued. If he loses the whole "Baby TO" thing and doesn't pull a Portis (demand a new contract), then I will be a 100% believer...till then, I'll always approach this new God of the Mane with suspicion.

Flame away if you wish, makes no difference to me.
I don't think you deserve a flaming. And I honestly forgot who I was talking to about that with. I actually agree with some of your misgivings. He's been productive and had some plays that were explosive but he hasn't scored at will like some of the best seem to be able to do. I can also see why people that take issue with his character concerns wouldn't be 100% on the guy. There's no need to flame you on that. I think it's a valid opinion...though one I don't entirely agree with.

rastaman
01-22-2008, 09:16 PM
Losing the "Baby TO" persona would go a very long way to making me at ease with him. I was the one who wanted to see a career game from him along the lines that Jay had a couple of games this season....I won't back away from that if indeed I was the one you're so thinly calling out to pick the scab off this whole debate again Kay.

He's come a long way toward being a legit #1 obivously...whether he's supplanted Javon in that role remains to be seen IF Walker is kept and he's able to go at 2006 strength, I fully expect a training camp/preseason battle for that spot that will be highly entertaining to say the least.

In the meantime, how many times do I have to go on record as being highly distrustful of prima donnas? They almost always cause a team trouble at some point...I really don't see where that can be argued. If he loses the whole "Baby TO" thing and doesn't pull a Portis (demand a new contract), then I will be a 100% believer...till then, I'll always approach this new God of the Mane with suspicion.

Flame away if you wish, makes no difference to me.

Hell, if Denver is not care full, they won't have to worry about whether Marshall becomes a primma dona, b/c if things don't turn around in Denver in the next year or two......Brandon may decide to sign with another team!!

Denver is rebuilding and needs talent. You don't simply let a 4th round pick get away once they become All-Pro!......but wait we are talking about Shanahan--right! Point is, Denver needs Marshall, more than Marshall needs Denver b/c, Brandon has youth and talent on his side!!!

Ya see, Brandon is young, talented, brass and wants to win NOW!, not 3 years from now......and he will want top dollar, especially if he has another break out season and pro-bowl selection.

Denver would be foolish let Brandon get into the 4th and last year of his contract! You know Marshall is already thinking Denver got him cheap b/c he was drafted in the 4th round----so he got 4th round money!

Plus, people are already whispering in Brandon ear, "Hey dude.....you play with reckless abandon and no single CB can bring you down by themselves, so teams will use a swarm of tacklers to bring you down; and your style makes you susceptible to injury....so you gotta get your money (Big Signing Bonus) as soon as possible!" Remember your old long gone (injured)teammate "Javon Walker"!!!

Remember Brandon....."THE NFL" stands for "Not For Long"!!!

Dukes
01-22-2008, 09:27 PM
Remember Brandon....."THE NFL" stands for "Not For Long"!!!

I thought it stood for the "No Fun League"

rastaman
01-22-2008, 09:37 PM
I thought it stood for the "No Fun League"

Actually, it turns into the no fun league when your team looses, you don't get to the Super Bowl, when you get injured and when when father time catches up with and its time to hang it up!

Thats No Fun.8')

Gcver2ver3
01-22-2008, 10:00 PM
Is this really a poll?

Marshall is the real deal....our best player on offense and the 2nd best player on the team...

I don't think people realize how good this kid is....

I know i sound like a homer but...he's THE best after the catch....no question....not even close....i think of his 102 catches, he made at least one person miss on 100 of those grabs....

Not as big of a deep threat but he'll develop that

his hands are super strong and he's a king blocker...

as long as his spunk and spirit is held in check...the sky is the limit for him...

he has a chance to be the best in the biz....we've had some great WRs but never a talent like this....

i look forward to watching him moving forward....

Hogan11
01-23-2008, 12:44 AM
I don't think you deserve a flaming. And I honestly forgot who I was talking to about that with. I actually agree with some of your misgivings. He's been productive and had some plays that were explosive but he hasn't scored at will like some of the best seem to be able to do. I can also see why people that take issue with his character concerns wouldn't be 100% on the guy. There's no need to flame you on that. I think it's a valid opinion...though one I don't entirely agree with.

Nah, the flame thing came about due to a few militant Marshall fanatics over the course of last season. They were on you in a milisecond at the slightest perceived snub or refusal to acknowledge him as the greatest thing since sliced bread. I thought that a thread like this was going to bring them out en masse once again, hence the statement.

Houshyamama
01-23-2008, 12:54 AM
Brandon, Tony, Elvis, and Jay...The Future of the Denver Broncos

Sounds like a barbershop quartet.

Los Broncos
01-23-2008, 12:56 AM
He is a number one in my book, but i do have one pet peeve.

~Crash~
01-23-2008, 01:31 AM
Especially with the 0.7 secs Cutler got to throw the ball on most passing downs.:D

:giggle: how verry true !!!

Natedog24
01-23-2008, 03:00 AM
Brandon had some of the more impressive runs after the catch plays that I have ever seen out of an NFL WR this past season. Nothing is a given at this point in his career, but I think he does have the potential the be the most talented WR to play in Denver. He may already be the guy with the most raw talent, if Rod Smith has this guys physical ability then he would have been a shoe-in first ballot HOFer.

dbfan21
01-23-2008, 08:54 AM
He's a number 1 and I believe will be a top 5 receiver in the league for years to come. One of the best receivers after the catch that I have ever seen.

Bump. I cannot wait to see how well he and Jay work together this year after attending the off-season program in Atlanta.

cmhargrove
01-23-2008, 09:09 AM
The other thing I like (that hasn't already been mentioned), is that he likes to "play" the game. I mean like an overgrown kid, trying to "beat" the other guys - just flat out "playing." I think a bit of levity is extremely important in the Broncos huddle so Cutler doesn't develop stomach ulcers. If Jay, Brandon, and Tony continue to "have fun" as they grow in skill, this will be a fun team to watch for many years to come.

Crushaholic
01-23-2008, 09:20 AM
It's POSSIBLE that Brandon could be a flash-in-the-pan type of guy, but I don't think so. His ability to get yards after the catch shows me that he's the real deal. Defenders can't bring him down, and that's an important component for a #1 receiver. I can't wait to see what next year brings...:strong:

Archer81
01-23-2008, 09:30 AM
He and Sheffler were our passing offense when Stokely and Walker got hurt, they both responded well. If Walker sticks around our passing game will be pretty solid, especially if everyone stays healthy. Grab a developmental prospect with PR skills in the mid rounds and focus on the lines. But Marshall has skills, he dominated games, and at no point did lelie ever dominate anyone. His best game as a pro was when he had 3 catches against Indianapolis...3. Marshall would have that on a single drive. He should be fine, and next season I expect his numbers to dip a bit because Walker and Stokley will be back, which should make him more explosive.

:Broncos:

TheReverend
01-23-2008, 09:32 AM
Losing the "Baby TO" persona would go a very long way to making me at ease with him. I was the one who wanted to see a career game from him along the lines that Jay had a couple of games this season....I won't back away from that if indeed I was the one you're so thinly calling out to pick the scab off this whole debate again Kay.

He's come a long way toward being a legit #1 obivously...whether he's supplanted Javon in that role remains to be seen IF Walker is kept and he's able to go at 2006 strength, I fully expect a training camp/preseason battle for that spot that will be highly entertaining to say the least.

In the meantime, how many times do I have to go on record as being highly distrustful of prima donnas? They almost always cause a team trouble at some point...I really don't see where that can be argued. If he loses the whole "Baby TO" thing and doesn't pull a Portis (demand a new contract), then I will be a 100% believer...till then, I'll always approach this new God of the Mane with suspicion.

Flame away if you wish, makes no difference to me.

This kind of opinion really is one I can't understand.

Why do fans attack Portis for wanting a new contract? He plays in an injury laden position and proved to be a game-breaking, pro-bowl player. He was (that parts not arguable) worth more money than his 2nd round rookie contract was paying.

Are you telling me that you wouldn't do the same?

As for Marshall, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. There's two ALLEGED incidents and him calling the fans out. I personally agree with what he said about the fans that left and prefer to let the legal system and the NFL's disciplinary committies do THEIR JOBS.

Here's what I KNOW about Marshall:
He was a 1300 yard, 100 catch receiver in only his SECOND year
He was an amazing blocker in downfield run support
He cares enough about football and the team to be spending his off-season training with Cutler and Scheffler.
My question is: What more do you have to know?

Broncomutt
01-23-2008, 09:57 AM
he's the best player on the offense not named Jay Cutler

He blows Cutler out of the water. This years' Bronco MVP should be Marshall.

I'm not sure there is a team in the NFL that Marshall wouldn't be a starter for, if not the #1. Couldn't say the same about JC.

Archer81
01-23-2008, 10:08 AM
He blows Cutler out of the water. This years' Bronco MVP should be Marshall.

I'm not sure there is a team in the NFL that Marshall wouldn't be a starter for, if not the #1. Couldn't say the same about JC.


Sure. An 89 rating overall for a 2nd year QB on a 7-9 team...most teams would pass on that...especially the 60% completion percentage...


:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
01-23-2008, 10:26 AM
Sure. An 89 rating overall for a 2nd year QB on a 7-9 team...most teams would pass on that...especially the 60% completion percentage...


:Broncos:

Unless I'm mistaken, he's not saying that Cutler is a bad QB. He's just saying that there are more teams in the league that Cutler wouldn't start for at QB than Marshall would as a WR. Do you disagree with that statement?

RaiderH8r
01-23-2008, 11:27 AM
Chrisp makes a valid point, I'm still leery after declaring Lelie a "real deal".

Having said that I think this season was a tremendous step forward for a player with decent speed, good hands, and big body. I submit that his success came from taking his assets, size and good hands, and adding in a considerable amount of desire to make plays, i.e. heart. I watch prima donna receivers all over the league go down at the slightest whiff of impact (I'm looking at you Candy Randy Moss) but Marshall keeps balance and fights for yards. He's a tremendous threat on the swing pass/smoke screen type play where he is in space 1 on 1 with a corner, very few of which can actually make an open field tackle. His size makes that matchup much more favorable for the Broncos as well. His route running looks to have taken steps forward as well. His most impressive achievement, to my mind, is the little task of positioning himself for the catch, getting between the ball and the defender. Using his size in this fashion makes him a formidable asset in the short passing game, stop routes, digs, etc. If/when teams roll single coverage his way he may not have the speed to burn CBs but he has the size to get downfield and make the circus catch on a jump ball, with his knack for getting position this makes him a big play threat. Sprinkle into that his determination to fight off tacklers in that situation and you have a big play threat that is non-traditional in today's NFL.

All in all I think he had a tremendous season and really took positive steps forward. I'm not ready to anoint him until he can show consistency year to year but he has definitely earned the opportunity to be the number 1 guy going into next season.

I also have to wonder how much Rod's tutelege factored into his success. Marshall's game began to look an awful lot like Rod's. Position, hands, routes, and determination to break tackles...smells like a Rod Smith production to me.

rubaiyat
01-23-2008, 03:21 PM
Funny ... I think he's probably already the best WR we've ever had. His yac is INSANE, he the best run-after-catch WR in the league, hands down. It's a freaking miracle he didn't pop 3 or 4 more to the house. His numbers this year, for a 7-9 team with no #2 receiver, are equally insane.

Sure, Rod and Eddie each snagged 100 balls in 2000, but they had one another, plus a 1,487 yard runing back in Mike Anderson.

I think Jennings is right there honestly.

rubaiyat
01-23-2008, 03:49 PM
Unless I'm mistaken, he's not saying that Cutler is a bad QB. He's just saying that there are more teams in the league that Cutler wouldn't start for at QB than Marshall would as a WR. Do you disagree with that statement?

I don't know that is a fair comparision. The better is how many teams would Marshall be the number one on?

As there is only one starting QB.

Beantown Bronco
01-23-2008, 04:39 PM
I don't know that is a fair comparision. The better is how many teams would Marshall be the number one on?

As there is only one starting QB.

Even if you go to that level, I think Mutt still makes a valid argument.

Marshall finished 5th in the NFL in receptions, 6th in yards and 17th in TDs among all WRs. You could make an argument for him being the #1 WR in all but 8-10 teams at the most by the end of the season.

Cutler was 10th in yards, 12th in QB rating, 13th in TDs and 21st in INTs. Although his potential is exciting, he's not quite there yet and would not have started for several teams this past season. Certainly more than the 8-10 that I would award to Marshall.

yavoon
01-23-2008, 04:44 PM
Even if you go to that level, I think Mutt still makes a valid argument.

Marshall finished 5th in the NFL in receptions, 6th in yards and 17th in TDs among all WRs. You could make an argument for him being the #1 WR in all but 8-10 teams at the most by the end of the season.

Cutler was 10th in yards, 12th in QB rating, 13th in TDs and 21st in INTs. Although his potential is exciting, he's not quite there yet and would not have started for several teams this past season. Certainly more than the 8-10 that I would award to Marshall.

ooo fun game! marshall is not the #1 on:

colts
patriots
cardinals
rams
bengals
texans
giants
cowboys
redskins
lions
packers
panthers
saints

thats all I got!

TheReverend
01-23-2008, 04:50 PM
ooo fun game! marshall is not the #1 on:

colts
patriots
cardinals
rams
bengals
texans
giants
cowboys
redskins
lions
packers
panthers
saints

thats all I got!

Giants, redskins, packers and saints? Seriously?

yavoon
01-23-2008, 04:51 PM
Giants, redskins, packers and saints? Seriously?

driver, colston, burress, moss. and yes seriously:).

Beantown Bronco
01-23-2008, 04:52 PM
ooo fun game! marshall is not the #1 on:

colts
patriots
cardinals
rams
bengals
texans
giants
cowboys
redskins
lions
packers
panthers
saints

thats all I got!

and a few of those are debatable.

Washington is laughable. He'd be the clear #1 there.

Texans? Debatable. Andre Johnson didn't have a productive year. Injuries have to be accounted for. After all, how did Marshall earn the #1 slot.

Rams? Holt didn't have as good a year as Marshall.

Lions? Who is there #1. Roy Williams didn't put up Marshall's numbers either.

yavoon
01-23-2008, 04:54 PM
and a few of those are debatable.

Washington is laughable. He'd be the clear #1 there.

Texans? Debatable. Andre Johnson didn't have a productive year. Injuries have to be accounted for. After all, how did Marshall earn the #1 slot.

Rams? Holt didn't have as good a year as Marshall.

Lions? Who is there #1. Roy Williams didn't put up Marshall's numbers either.

meh, marshall had a good year, and had GREAT espn highlights. but its only one year, and that doesn't unseat you. also outsiders only has marshall ranked 23rd in dpar and has him 52nd! in dvoa. marshall still needs progression.

Beantown Bronco
01-23-2008, 05:02 PM
meh, marshall had a good year, and had GREAT espn highlights. but its only one year, and that doesn't unseat you.

sure it does. People get unseated all the time after one down year; or promoted after one great year. There's not enough time to screw around any more with free agency and the cap, etc.

also outsiders only has marshall ranked 23rd in dpar and has him 52nd! in dvoa. marshall still needs progression.

I've been a fairly middle of the road Marshall critic on here this season and I find quite a bit of humor in those rankings. One season or not, he outperformed all but a handful of receivers this past season and I can't even imagine what the arguments would be for him being ranked lower than whoever they have after 15th or so.

LincolnBronco
01-23-2008, 05:03 PM
meh, marshall had a good year, and had GREAT espn highlights. but its only one year, and that doesn't unseat you. also outsiders only has marshall ranked 23rd in dpar and has him 52nd! in dvoa. marshall still needs progression.

You also have to consider that the rankings help when you're on a winning team. I don't pay much attention to meaningless rankings, for a second year player. He's exciting as it is, and with years in front of him, even more exciting.

yavoon
01-23-2008, 05:57 PM
sure it does. People get unseated all the time after one down year; or promoted after one great year. There's not enough time to screw around any more with free agency and the cap, etc.



I've been a fairly middle of the road Marshall critic on here this season and I find quite a bit of humor in those rankings. One season or not, he outperformed all but a handful of receivers this past season and I can't even imagine what the arguments would be for him being ranked lower than whoever they have after 15th or so.

marshall was also the target of the most passes in the NFL, upwards of 160. even w/ a relatively pedestrian catch rate that got him his catches. and I don't expect to beat out the marshall optimists, he's a highlight reel making machine, you can't beat that on an internet message board:).

yavoon
01-23-2008, 05:58 PM
You also have to consider that the rankings help when you're on a winning team. I don't pay much attention to meaningless rankings, for a second year player. He's exciting as it is, and with years in front of him, even more exciting.

yes being on winning teams/around better players helps usually(unless it squeezes you out of opportunities).

Mr Chatterboodamn
01-23-2008, 06:03 PM
marshall was also the target of the most passes in the NFL, upwards of 160. even w/ a relatively pedestrian catch rate that got him his catches. and I don't expect to beat out the marshall optimists, he's a highlight reel making machine, you can't beat that on an internet message board:).

isn't entertainment (i.e. highlight reel plays) the point of WATCHING football?

yavoon
01-23-2008, 06:07 PM
isn't entertainment (i.e. highlight reel plays) the point of WATCHING football?

not really for me, or I'd just watch espn. but I understand your point and would say that its not necessarily what makes the better player:).

Mr Chatterboodamn
01-23-2008, 06:33 PM
not really for me, or I'd just watch espn. but I understand your point and would say that its not necessarily what makes the better player:).

the dude has highlight reel BLOCKS for chistsakes... ahaha and your point well taken, but I'd say when you have a receiver that catches 100+ balls, levels DEs, and is as difficult to bring down as any player in the league...you have a better player.

a philosophical question for you: what is the point of football?

mhgaffney
01-24-2008, 03:15 AM
I was pretty rough on the guy -- but then I learned how young he is -- which explains the frequent mistakes. Heck, he's just a kid.

From now on I plan to cut him some slack for his mistakes -- and enjoy the big plays.

Taco John
01-24-2008, 04:09 AM
Marshall is the most physically gifted WR we've ever had, period.

That's a long ways from saying that he's the best. He's got a lot of ground to cover there. But he's got the tools to go places that only special talents get. The problem is, he seems to have the kind of head that would like to do everything it can to waste that talent.

I'll be disappointed if he doesn't make the Pro-Bowl next year. I'll say the same for Jay. I'm hoping for big things for both of these guys.

elsid13
01-24-2008, 05:40 AM
Marshall is the most physically gifted WR we've ever had, period.

That's a long ways from saying that he's the best. He's got a lot of ground to cover there. But he's got the tools to go places that only special talents get. The problem is, he seems to have the kind of head that would like to do everything it can to waste that talent.

I'll be disappointed if he doesn't make the Pro-Bowl next year. I'll say the same for Jay. I'm hoping for big things for both of these guys.


Come on TJ, that is BS. Yes were heard about the off field incidents, but you also hear about him busting his ass in the film room and the practice field to be better, that doesn't sound like someone on his own that doesn't get it.

Hogan11
01-24-2008, 07:13 AM
This kind of opinion really is one I can't understand.

Why do fans attack Portis for wanting a new contract? He plays in an injury laden position and proved to be a game-breaking, pro-bowl player. He was (that parts not arguable) worth more money than his 2nd round rookie contract was paying.

Are you telling me that you wouldn't do the same?

You mean, would I put myself before the team that was paying me? No. I'd play out the contract I signed with my mouth shut and then negoiate a new one.....not demand, negoiate. As it was, he cared about no one but himself and wanted it all now...a perfect example of the "instant gratification" that his entire generation revolves around.

As for Marshall, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. There's two ALLEGED incidents and him calling the fans out. I personally agree with what he said about the fans that left and prefer to let the legal system and the NFL's disciplinary committies do THEIR JOBS.

Here's what I KNOW about Marshall:
He was a 1300 yard, 100 catch receiver in only his SECOND year
He was an amazing blocker in downfield run support
He cares enough about football and the team to be spending his off-season training with Cutler and Scheffler.
My question is: What more do you have to know?

What more do I need to know? I need to know he's going to mature as a WR and not go the "Baby TO", self-promoting prima donna route..because, as I stated in my post before, those guys only cause the team trouble sooner or later. Show me a self-promoting, prima donna clown who hasn't been a disruption to his team at some point. I can't think of one.
Hopefully he grows up and out of the attitudes that have brought him minor grief already.

Hogan11
01-24-2008, 07:23 AM
Come on TJ, that is BS. Yes were heard about the off field incidents, but you also hear about him busting his ass in the film room and the practice field to be better, that doesn't sound like someone on his own that doesn't get it.

He gets it in terms of improving as a player....and that's admirable, but I don't think that's quite what Taco is talking about.

TheReverend
01-24-2008, 07:23 AM
You mean, would I put myself before the team that was paying me? No. I'd play out the contract I signed with my mouth shut and then negoiate a new one.....not demand, negoiate. As it was, he cared about no one but himself and wanted it all now...a perfect example of the "instant gratification" that his entire generation revolves around.

What more do I need to know? I need to know he's going to mature as a WR and not go the "Baby TO", self-promoting prima donna route..because, as I stated in my post before, those guys only cause the team trouble sooner or later. Show me a self-promoting, prima donna clown who hasn't been a disruption to his team at some point. I can't think of one.
Hopefully he grows up and out of the attitudes that have brought him minor grief already.


Really? So in a business where you're asked to take pay-cuts for underperformance and with an extremely low working "life span", you think someone has no right to ask for more when they far exceed the expectations?

If you're hired into a business to be a worker and paid their minimum working rate for $20/hr, then the person in front of you gets fired who made $25/hr, so you do his job, then the next person in front of him gets fired who was making $50/hr, now you're doing his job and still getting paid $20/hr

... you mean to tell me you wouldn't ask for extra compensation?

And since we were already on that topic... when did Portis become a problem to his team?

Hogan11
01-24-2008, 07:27 AM
Really? So in a business where you're asked to take pay-cuts for underperformance and with an extremely low working "life span", you think someone has no right to ask for more when they far exceed the expectations?

If you're hired into a business to be a worker and paid their minimum working rate for $20/hr, then the person in front of you gets fired who made $25/hr, so you do his job, then the next person in front of him gets fired who was making $50/hr, now you're doing his job and still getting paid $20/hr

... you mean to tell me you wanted ask for extra compensation?

And since we were already on that topic... when did Portis become a problem to his team?

He didn't ask for anything...he demanded, that was the problem.

TheReverend
01-24-2008, 07:33 AM
He didn't ask for anything...he demanded, that was the problem.

Oh please, if you're making a couple hundred thousand a year in an injury prone job and you KNOW you could be making 7 million and your family would be taken care of for life, you DON'T walk away from that. I don't care who you are.

Merlin
01-24-2008, 10:12 AM
meh, marshall had a good year, and had GREAT espn highlights. but its only one year, and that doesn't unseat you. also outsiders only has marshall ranked 23rd in dpar and has him 52nd! in dvoa. marshall still needs progression.
Yavoon,

You know that in stats, if something looks wrong on face value, it is worth confirming that your assumptions in your model are correct. A WR that is 6th in the league in catches, yds, and first in YAC, has no business being rated 23 and 52nd. Now I don't have the time to go and look at their breakdown at the moment, but something smells. You note that he received the most passes, but does their model consider what were the complementary players at the time (thus reducing pressure; e.g. RB, WR, TE)? Does it consider the pass protection of the OL (no comment needed here)? How about the quality of the passes (JC does have a tendency of staring at his WR, thus giving a heads up to the D)? All of these would be critical in a WR opportunities to place themselves in the right place to make the catch and actually make the catch. Somehow, I doubt they considered some (all?) of those factors in their variables, and in stats, what counts (as real) is what is given significance in the theoretical model guiding the "researchers" assumptions.

Hogan11
01-24-2008, 10:54 AM
Oh please, if you're making a couple hundred thousand a year in an injury prone job and you KNOW you could be making 7 million and your family would be taken care of for life, you DON'T walk away from that. I don't care who you are.

Oh phleeze nothing...try walking up to your employer and demanding a huge pay increase...one that you want right now and see where it gets you. Most times, it'll get you right out the door...especially when you're doing a job that has been done repeatedly by others before and since (in this case 1000 yrd. rushing seasons). The Clown got his cash, he just didn't get it in Denver......he doesn't care, so why should anyone else at this point?

BUT..if you think that's an acceptable practice when going about getting a raise, then best of luck to you because you will certainly need it in any future negoiations you may have.

TheReverend
01-24-2008, 11:34 AM
Oh phleeze nothing...try walking up to your employer and demanding a huge pay increase...one that you want right now and see where it gets you. Most times, it'll get you right out the door...especially when you're doing a job that has been done repeatedly by others before and since (in this case 1000 yrd. rushing seasons). The Clown got his cash, he just didn't get it in Denver......he doesn't care, so why should anyone else at this point?

BUT..if you think that's an acceptable practice when going about getting a raise, then best of luck to you because you will certainly need it in any future negoiations you may have.

Lol... actually yeah, I just did do that and turned a 5% raise in a 22%, but hey, it doesn't really matter.

The point is, you're definitely not looking at it from a business perspective and from the player's point of view. It's a dangerous profession and management certainly will always be looking out for the best interest of the franchise and not the players.

From a fan point of view, it sure would be great if everyone had a feel good story like Rod Smith? Team first guy, never really whined for more money, restructures to help the team, etc. But if that hip injury happened a decade earlier, no one would really care about him.

The players, getting shuffled almost on an annual basis, don't have the same loyalty as life-long fans do. Their laundry changes from Orange and Blue to Green and White or whatever. They have a right to protect themselves and their families.

yavoon
01-24-2008, 02:22 PM
Yavoon,

You know that in stats, if something looks wrong on face value, it is worth confirming that your assumptions in your model are correct. A WR that is 6th in the league in catches, yds, and first in YAC, has no business being rated 23 and 52nd. Now I don't have the time to go and look at their breakdown at the moment, but something smells. You note that he received the most passes, but does their model consider what were the complementary players at the time (thus reducing pressure; e.g. RB, WR, TE)? Does it consider the pass protection of the OL (no comment needed here)? How about the quality of the passes (JC does have a tendency of staring at his WR, thus giving a heads up to the D)? All of these would be critical in a WR opportunities to place themselves in the right place to make the catch and actually make the catch. Somehow, I doubt they considered some (all?) of those factors in their variables, and in stats, what counts (as real) is what is given significance in the theoretical model guiding the "researchers" assumptions.

I disagree, nothing really smells. he was targeted the most of any wr in the entire NFL had a pretty pedestrian catch % and didn't score many touchdowns. and I can throw out a bunch of other "factors" that would improve his stats. like ppl not recognizing him as an elite WR in their gameplans, the broncos playing from behind a ton.

the model gives me zero pause, sorry.

Beantown Bronco
01-24-2008, 02:29 PM
I disagree, nothing really smells. he was targeted the most of any wr in the entire NFL had a pretty pedestrian catch %

What if a high percentage of those targets were bad throws that really weren't catchable? Or intentional "throwaways" in his general direction. Does the site you got those numbers from account for that?

And despite the claim that he "didn't score many TDs", he was still 17th among WRs in the entire league. If that is his worst ranking in any major category, I still fail to see how anyone could rank him 52nd....especially considering he's top 10 in everything else. That's just odd IMO.

yavoon
01-24-2008, 02:32 PM
What if a high percentage of those targets were bad throws that really weren't catchable? Or intentional "throwaways" in his general direction. Does the site you got those numbers from account for that?

And despite the claim that he "didn't score many TDs", he was still 17th among WRs in the entire league. If that is his worst ranking in any major category, I still fail to see how anyone could rank him 52nd....especially considering he's top 10 in everything else. That's just odd IMO.

passes thrown his way. and yes a good qb can make a receiver look good and vice versa. look at how good randy moss made daunte culpepper look? the guy is a scrub and moss had ppl asking if maybe daunte was an all pro. and thats not just by stats, thats actual analysts.

Inkana7
01-24-2008, 02:41 PM
passes thrown his way. and yes a good qb can make a receiver look good and vice versa. look at how good randy moss made daunte culpepper look? the guy is a scrub and moss had ppl asking if maybe daunte was an all pro. and thats not just by stats, thats actual analysts.

Culpepper was a stud. He just happened to blow out every ligament in his knee.

His best season was one where Moss was hurt for a lot of it, remember.

yavoon
01-24-2008, 02:44 PM
Culpepper was a stud. He just happened to blow out every ligament in his knee.

His best season was one where Moss was hurt for a lot of it, remember.

in 2004 randy moss started 13 games. his yards were done from nagging injuries, but he still had 13 TDs. and no culpepper is not a stud, he is a scrub that needed moss to scare the **** outta ppl in the lineup to be an NFL starter(obvious now that he no longer has moss). and while culpepper did run some, he wasn't really THAT fast.

Inkana7
01-24-2008, 03:04 PM
in 2004 randy moss started 13 games. his yards were done from nagging injuries, but he still had 13 TDs. and no culpepper is not a stud, he is a scrub that needed moss to scare the **** outta ppl in the lineup to be an NFL starter(obvious now that he no longer has moss). and while culpepper did run some, he wasn't really THAT fast.

Moss started a bunch of games just to keep some streak of his alive. He didn't have a catch in a lot of those games he "started" And he only had 700 some yards. Culpepper threw 32+ TDs that year, and close to 5,000 yards.

yavoon
01-24-2008, 03:12 PM
Moss started a bunch of games just to keep some streak of his alive. He didn't have a catch in a lot of those games he "started" And he only had 700 some yards. Culpepper threw 32+ TDs that year, and close to 5,000 yards.

you still gotta gameplan for moss if he's in. look at the patriots last two games, moss caught like what? 2 passes? but ur entire gameplan still has to revolve around moss. and if culpepper was as good as u'd say he'd be good again by now.

elsid13
01-24-2008, 05:05 PM
You mean, would I put myself before the team that was paying me? No. I'd play out the contract I signed with my mouth shut and then negoiate a new one.....not demand, negoiate. As it was, he cared about no one but himself and wanted it all now...a perfect example of the "instant gratification" that his entire generation revolves around.



What more do I need to know? I need to know he's going to mature as a WR and not go the "Baby TO", self-promoting prima donna route..because, as I stated in my post before, those guys only cause the team trouble sooner or later. Show me a self-promoting, prima donna clown who hasn't been a disruption to his team at some point. I can't think of one.
Hopefully he grows up and out of the attitudes that have brought him minor grief already.


The "Baby TO" moniker was given to him by NFL scouts at the NFL Combine because to the way he looked, ran and performed not because of the way he acted. It happens all the time when folks try to project what type of a player some rookie will play like. So and So will be a Marvin Harrison type WR or Alex Smith is faster Jake Plummer.

It really sucks it appears folks have made the assumption that moniker represent who this kid is.

Hogan11
01-24-2008, 07:55 PM
The "Baby TO" moniker was given to him by NFL scouts at the NFL Combine because to the way he looked, ran and performed not because of the way he acted. It happens all the time when folks try to project what type of a player some rookie will play like. So and So will be a Marvin Harrison type WR or Alex Smith is faster Jake Plummer.

It really sucks it appears folks have made the assumption that moniker represent who this kid is.

That's obivous....what really sucks is that he's done nothing to discourage the comparison from an actions point of view yet.

TheReverend
01-24-2008, 10:02 PM
That's obivous....what really sucks is that he's done nothing to discourage the comparison from an actions point of view yet.

You're unreal...

Skipping his time off to train with Cutler and Scheffler

Being the ONLY player that never quit in any situation this season

Yet you act like he's publicly calling out coaches and teammates, while organizing 911, outsourcing jobs to Mexico and running a sweatshop in Thailand.

Sassy
01-24-2008, 11:06 PM
Maybe if Marshall would keep himself out of trouble...some of us wouldn't have that perception of him!
Can I vote for 1, 2 and 3 ? ;D

Punisher
01-24-2008, 11:09 PM
yup hes a number one and javons are number 2

TheReverend
01-25-2008, 07:16 AM
Maybe if Marshall would keep himself out of trouble...some of us wouldn't have that perception of him!
Can I vote for 1, 2 and 3 ? ;D

PM me when he faces a suspension or any league imposed action.

The MVPlaya
03-29-2010, 07:28 PM
bummp