View Full Version : Rumor--cowboys are shopping Bobby Carpenter and Marcus Spears
broncofan7
01-22-2008, 02:28 PM
Any interest here? I was thinking about Carpenter adding some depth to our LB corp--he was a 1st round talent. I am not that enamored with Spears. Dallas is loaded at LB, with Bradie James, Akin Odyelle and Kevin burnett on the inside and on the outside Dallas has Demarcus Ware, Greg Ellis and the rookie from purdue whose name escapes my mind. Carpenter was pretty good on special teams from what I recall from this past season as well. If Dallas is asking for a 4th, would we do it? I lwould be for it.....
TheReverend
01-22-2008, 02:31 PM
I think Spears could handle a 1 technique...
TheDave
01-22-2008, 02:34 PM
dangle Foxworth out there and see what happens...
PRBronco
01-22-2008, 02:51 PM
Oh nice, I always thought Carpenter would make a nice SAM, not worth a first rounder, but a surefire upgrade for us. Spears is no slouch either. Maybe they really want a small crappy linebacker and an(other) injury prone wide receiver who's an asshole.
alkemical
01-22-2008, 03:07 PM
nah, two 4th rounders should do it
Gcver2ver3
01-22-2008, 03:21 PM
I was thinking about Carpenter adding some depth to our LB corp--he was a 1st round talent. I am not that enamored with Spears.
thats funny...i'm on the flip side...
not high on carpentor but spears intrigues me some....
ayjackson
01-22-2008, 03:52 PM
I like Spears out of the two for our 4-3. He's 6'4" and 300 lbs and very stout against the run. If we could nab him for our 4th rounder, we'd be looking a lot better at DT. Throw in Corey Williams and we could forget about DT in the draft.
ayjackson
01-22-2008, 03:54 PM
dangle Foxworth out there and see what happens...
I think they'd be interested in upgrading Reeves in their nickel. I was thinking Foxworth for Spears earlier this month. I'm not sure if it is even up or not.
PRBronco
01-22-2008, 03:54 PM
I like Spears out of the two for our 3-4. He's 6'4" and 300 lbs and very stout against the run. If we could nab him for our 4th rounder, we'd be looking a lot better at DT. Throw in Corey Williams and we could forget about DT in the draft.
Does anyone have that ascii facepalm picture? This calls for a facepalm.
I hope they both enjoy south beach, because thats where they're going.
Spears, Carpenter, and some package of picks will get Dallas up to #1 and land Jerry Jones his boy, Darren McFadden. If we're smart we'll get in on that. Send #12 and #42 for both their 1sts, and their 2nd. Maybe try to squeeze a 4th out of them too.
After getting a late 3rd for Foxworth we'd be looking at a good crop of picks. Use #22 to get an impact player, maybe flip #30 to move back or even potentially turn it into a mid/late 2nd this year and an '09 1st.
Beantown Bronco
01-22-2008, 04:04 PM
Spears, Carpenter, and some package of picks will get Dallas up to #1 and land Jerry Jones his boy, Darren McFadden. If we're smart we'll get in on that. Send #12 and #42 for both their 1sts, and their 2nd. Maybe try to squeeze a 4th out of them too.
If the Cowboys really want that #1 pick....or even a top 5 pick overall....there's no way they trade their first rounders and their 2nd rounder to Denver for #12 and #42. They'd lose serious "trade up" ammo there IMO.
BroncoBuff
01-22-2008, 04:09 PM
We shouldda traded for Greg Ellis when I suggested it ... Summer 2006. Knowitall
Gcver2ver3
01-22-2008, 04:34 PM
We shouldda traded for Greg Ellis when I suggested it ... Summer 2006. Knowitall
we would've wasted him at DE....
RhymesayersDU
01-22-2008, 04:39 PM
Why would Dallas want McFadden? I mean, yeah, I know, he's this year's "Once a year" guy, but still, Barber is great.
Although if that's true, let's trade for Barber.
TheDave
01-22-2008, 04:42 PM
Why would Dallas want McFadden? I mean, yeah, I know, he's this year's "Once a year" guy, but still, Barber is great.
Although if that's true, let's trade for Barber.
I'll bet the entire DMAC / Cowboys interest is a media creation... but that's just me.
If the Cowboys really want that #1 pick....or even a top 5 pick overall....there's no way they trade their first rounders and their 2nd rounder to Denver for #12 and #42. They'd lose serious "trade up" ammo there IMO.
No team is going to drop from #1 all the way to #22.
Their two firsts and second for our 1st and 2nd is pretty even on points. If they then packaged both of those picks, their '09 first, and two of Carpenter, Spears, and Fasano I doubt Parcells would pass that up.
I'll bet the entire DMAC / Cowboys interest is a media creation... but that's just me.
Jerry Jones is an Arkansas football alum. Barber and Jones are each either FAs this year or next. He loves to make the big splash and a 1st overall contract isn't going to give him pause.
This is one of those cases where the smoke is likely coming from a real fire.
Beantown Bronco
01-22-2008, 05:28 PM
No team is going to drop from #1 all the way to #22.
Their two firsts and second for our 1st and 2nd is pretty even on points. If they then packaged both of those picks, their '09 first, and two of Carpenter, Spears, and Fasano I doubt Parcells would pass that up.
gotcha...I wasn't sure you were including the 09 pick.
That's a hell of a lot to give up for one guy: two firsts this year, a first next year, a second this year, and two "quality" starters. And then you have to sign him. Yikes.
That one player better pan out if you are going to give up that much to get him.
gotcha...I wasn't sure you were including the 09 pick.
That's a hell of a lot to give up for one guy: two firsts this year, a first next year, a second this year, and two "quality" starters. And then you have to sign him. Yikes.
That one player better pan out if you are going to give up that much to get him.
Carpenter and Fasano are only role players for the Cowboys. Spears looks movable since Ratliff did such a great job at NT in place of Ferguson. One of them could move out to end for next year.
Its a lot to give up, sure, but thats what it costs to get those marquee types of players. You put McFadden on the Cowboys with basically no other key losses and how many games do they lose in the NFC? They wouldn't be getting knocked out of the playoffs like they did this year, Romo being ineffective so they can't move the ball and the Giants controlling the clock running on them late. McFadden picks up the slack for when Romo doesn't show up and he keeps the other team's offense off the field late in games.
That One Guy
01-22-2008, 05:45 PM
gotcha...I wasn't sure you were including the 09 pick.
That's a hell of a lot to give up for one guy: two firsts this year, a first next year, a second this year, and two "quality" starters. And then you have to sign him. Yikes.
That one player better pan out if you are going to give up that much to get him.
I agree, too much to offer. If we were talking Cleveland Browns of the last 5 years, then maybe they trade the farm for someone they can build around even if it isn't the QB. Dallas had the inside track for the NFC SB representatives, they can't afford to dismantle things to get a player for a position that isn't necessarily in need. They plug a few things in and they could be much better next year; a RB wouldn't do that for em.
mattob14
01-22-2008, 06:41 PM
I hope they both enjoy south beach, because thats where they're going.
Spears, Carpenter, and some package of picks will get Dallas up to #1 and land Jerry Jones his boy, Darren McFadden. If we're smart we'll get in on that. Send #12 and #42 for both their 1sts, and their 2nd. Maybe try to squeeze a 4th out of them too.
After getting a late 3rd for Foxworth we'd be looking at a good crop of picks. Use #22 to get an impact player, maybe flip #30 to move back or even potentially turn it into a mid/late 2nd this year and an '09 1st.
Exactly right, if Dallas and Miami are talking trade, we need to try to help facilitate a deal, similar to the Jets/Falcons trade a couple of years ago. In a deal like that, there will be a lot of moving parts and we could certainly get good value for our role. Miami and Dallas could both use a CB and it wouldn't surprise me to see Denver move Foxworth and #12 for #22 and #29, keeping our own 2nd. That'd give us 3 picks in the top 41, I believe. Who knows, we may even be able to squeeze an extra mid-rounder out of the deal.
PRBronco
01-22-2008, 06:54 PM
Exactly right, if Dallas and Miami are talking trade, we need to try to help facilitate a deal, similar to the Jets/Falcons trade a couple of years ago. In a deal like that, there will be a lot of moving parts and we could certainly get good value for our role. Miami and Dallas could both use a CB and it wouldn't surprise me to see Denver move Foxworth and #12 for #22 and #29, keeping our own 2nd. That'd give us 3 picks in the top 41, I believe. Who knows, we may even be able to squeeze an extra mid-rounder out of the deal.
Ahh, the old Shanny 3 way :) Throw in Bobby Carpenter and I'm in!
Killericon
01-22-2008, 06:54 PM
I'd love Carpenter, but Spears is a a pipe dream.
I'd love Carpenter, but Spears is a a pipe dream.
You never know, Shanny is a master of the three way trade. Look what he managed to get for Lelie, we're still reaping rewards for that. :)
I don't really care for Spears on our team though. He was a prototypical 3-4 DE coming out, he played in a 3-4 and has further enforced that fact.
His best value that I can see is being flipped to Miami who I'm sure Parcells will convert into a 3-4 team. The only front four talent they really have worth caring about can all be or have been impact players in the 3-4 defense.
rovolution
01-22-2008, 08:27 PM
You never know, Shanny is a master of the three way trade. Look what he managed to get for Lelie, we're still reaping rewards for that. :)
I don't really care for Spears on our team though. He was a prototypical 3-4 DE coming out, he played in a 3-4 and has further enforced that fact.
His best value that I can see is being flipped to Miami who I'm sure Parcells will convert into a 3-4 team. The only front four talent they really have worth caring about can all be or have been impact players in the 3-4 defense.
Miami has been running 3-4 since the Nick Saban era.
Dom Capers brought it there when he was hired and they have run it ever since, ran it quite effectively during Jason Taylor's Defensive MVP season in 06.
Miami has been running 3-4 since the Nick Saban era.
Dom Capers brought it there when he was hired and they have run it ever since, ran it quite effectively during Jason Taylor's Defensive MVP season in 06.
Interesting, NFL.com still lists them as a 4-3 team with a 4-3 depth chart. Same with the Dolphin's site.
Either way, they'll surely be playing a 3-4 next season, at which point Spears will make a great fit.
rovolution
01-22-2008, 08:41 PM
Interesting, NFL.com still lists them as a 4-3 team with a 4-3 depth chart. Same with the Dolphin's site.
Either way, they'll surely be playing a 3-4 next season, at which point Spears will make a great fit.
they are a 3-4 squad.
Thats why people made such a big deal of that Joey Porter FA signing (which looked terrible this season), he was supposed to make Olines choose btw doubling him or Jason Taylor on the pass rush (but Joey obviously is a player who's skills are in rapid decline).
elsid13
01-22-2008, 08:42 PM
Miami has been running 3-4 since the Nick Saban era.
Dom Capers brought it there when he was hired and they have run it ever since, ran it quite effectively during Jason Taylor's Defensive MVP season in 06.
Guess my eyes have be lying to me, because they pretty much only have 3 LB on the field at one time. Taylor once in while will stand up but most of the time his hand is on the ground.
rovolution
01-22-2008, 08:50 PM
Guess my eyes have be lying to me, because they pretty much only have 3 LB on the field at one time. Taylor once in while will stand up but most of the time his hand is on the ground.
really? i just remember reading somewhere that they used 3-4. Maybe they just mixed it in.
Capers was their d-coodinator and he had been famous for his preference of the 3-4.
Again, they probably used some kind of hybrid. Otherwise, why in the world would you sign Joey Porter to be a 4-3 LB?
elsid13
01-22-2008, 08:57 PM
really? i just remember reading somewhere that they used 3-4. Maybe they just mixed it in.
Capers was their d-coodinator and he had been famous for his preference of the 3-4.
Again, they probably used some kind of hybrid. Otherwise, why in the world would you sign Joey Porter to be a 4-3 LB?
They signed Porter because the wanted a play maker, and if Google him, you will see him talk about his transition to the SAM LB in 4-3. They attempted to run a hybrid but most of the time they stuck with the base 4-3.
For some god awful reasons DC gets MIA games on regular basis.
Requiem
01-22-2008, 09:07 PM
One of the posters on BF said that he was approached by a guy there since he was wearing his Broncos jacket and said told him that Denver seems to be one of the players in a potential trade with these guys.
elsid13
01-22-2008, 09:15 PM
One of the posters on BF said that he was approached by a guy there since he was wearing his Broncos jacket and said told him that Denver seems to be one of the players in a potential trade with these guys.
huh:kiddingme
Shanahan never shows his hand, and some random guy on the "light rail" knows about the deal.
footstepsfrom#27
01-22-2008, 09:21 PM
Who cares? Both of 'em are dissapointments. If they've dissapointed playing with a defensive coach like Wade Phillips, what do you think they'd accomplish in this chaotic defensive environment.
Answer...not much.
Requiem
01-22-2008, 09:22 PM
huh:kiddingme
Shanahan never shows his hand, and some random guy on the "light rail" knows about the deal.
The Cowboys looking to ship these players is already being reported at various sources.
The poster said an ESPN intern (someone working for them) told him that the Broncos at least seem to be interested in discussing a potential trade.
*shrugs*
The Cowboys looking to ship these players is already being reported at various sources.
The poster said an ESPN intern (someone working for them) told him that the Broncos at least seem to be interested in discussing a potential trade.
*shrugs*
E!SPN reports a lot of wrong ****. I remember last year on the Friday before the draft they reported that Denver had traded up to the #10 spot, presumably in trying to get Willis. Needless to say, it wasnt true. But they actually reported this on the air.
TheReverend
01-23-2008, 07:43 AM
The Cowboys looking to ship these players is already being reported at various sources.
The poster said an ESPN intern (someone working for them) told him that the Broncos at least seem to be interested in discussing a potential trade.
*shrugs*
As long as it's for Spears and not Carpenter, I'm all for it.
Beantown Bronco
01-23-2008, 08:46 AM
Throw enough "you know what" against the wall and eventually something will stick.
ayjackson
01-23-2008, 11:13 AM
Spears played fairly well this year. He'd definitely be our best DT (not saying much) and he is good against the run. He is their third best DE in Dallas though, with Canty and Ratliff excelling in their 3-4. Jason Hatcher is a good rotational end, which leaves Spears as a starting quality DT/DE that is surplus to requirements. If the price was a fourth, I'd snap their hand off. If the price was Foxworth and a 5th or 6th, I'd bite as well.
Carpenter was drafted by Parcels to play ILB after a few years of learning the defence. He was pressed into action as an OLB due to injuries last year. This year, he was going to be given a shot to start alongside Akin Ayodele but pulled a hammy in training camp. He gave it a go in their last preseason game (still nursing?) and failed to impress in a couple of quarters of work. Bradie James started the season and became the Cowboys' leader on defence. Carpenter is a Parcells/Belichick ILB as opposed to a Phillips one. I don't know if he would be effective as a SAM in a 4-3, and unless the price is a fourth or less, I wouldn't risk it. I'm sure he'll end up in Miami or New England before Denver though.
Broncos_OTM
01-23-2008, 11:19 AM
I hope they both enjoy south beach, because thats where they're going.
Spears, Carpenter, and some package of picks will get Dallas up to #1 and land Jerry Jones his boy, Darren McFadden. If we're smart we'll get in on that. Send #12 and #42 for both their 1sts, and their 2nd. Maybe try to squeeze a 4th out of them too.
After getting a late 3rd for Foxworth we'd be looking at a good crop of picks. Use #22 to get an impact player, maybe flip #30 to move back or even potentially turn it into a mid/late 2nd this year and an '09 1st.
Look for parcells to run the 3-4. which means they would not be going there.becasue it is said they are not good in that scheme
RaiderH8r
01-23-2008, 11:33 AM
E!SPN reports a lot of wrong ****. I remember last year on the Friday before the draft they reported that Denver had traded up to the #10 spot, presumably in trying to get Willis. Needless to say, it wasnt true. But they actually reported this on the air.
I remember that. ESPN still owes me a pair of trousers for that little incident.
DelBronco
01-23-2008, 11:53 AM
Has anyone heard what Dallas might be asking for them? I'd be in favor of givng them both a look but that depends on what they want in return. Neither are All-Pro's, but can they really be worse than what we have at their positions now?
PRBronco
01-23-2008, 12:20 PM
Spears played fairly well this year. He'd definitely be our best DT (not saying much) and he is good against the run. He is their third best DE in Dallas though, with Canty and Ratliff excelling in their 3-4. Jason Hatcher is a good rotational end, which leaves Spears as a starting quality DT/DE that is surplus to requirements. If the price was a fourth, I'd snap their hand off. If the price was Foxworth and a 5th or 6th, I'd bite as well.
Carpenter was drafted by Parcels to play ILB after a few years of learning the defence. He was pressed into action as an OLB due to injuries last year. This year, he was going to be given a shot to start alongside Akin Ayodele but pulled a hammy in training camp. He gave it a go in their last preseason game (still nursing?) and failed to impress in a couple of quarters of work. Bradie James started the season and became the Cowboys' leader on defence. Carpenter is a Parcells/Belichick ILB as opposed to a Phillips one. I don't know if he would be effective as a SAM in a 4-3, and unless the price is a fourth or less, I wouldn't risk it. I'm sure he'll end up in Miami or New England before Denver though.
Good post, I agree 100% about Spears. I think Carpenter would be a good pickup too though, he was an excellent 4-3 SAM at OSU, playing with AJ Hawk and Schlegel, he's probably better suited for that, than anywhere in a 3-4.
Look for parcells to run the 3-4. which means they would not be going there.becasue it is said they are not good in that scheme
Spears is a prototype 3-4 DE and thats where he's spend his whole professional career, most of it starting on a quality team. So I don't see how you can say he's not a good fit there.
Carpenter is questionable. He's a 4-3 OLB that they tried converting into a 3-4 ILB. Personally I think he'd be a great addition for us, as long as he comes at a reasonable price. He excels in passing situations, both in coverage and rushing the passer. He's got some run stopping issues because he plays too upright and isn't as powerful as a 256 pounder should be (largely due to playing too upright). He'd be a great fit in Slowik's likely blitz heavy scheme though where he can rush the passer or cover the opposing TE and/or in a zone coverage scheme.
If we could swap him for Foxworth straight up I'd jump on it without hesitation.
Traveler
01-23-2008, 12:58 PM
Why are some folk here so quick to trade Foxworth? He's our 3rd best CB.
ayjackson
01-23-2008, 01:02 PM
Why are some folk here so quick to trade Foxworth? He's our 3rd best CB.
Some were impressed with the progress Paymah made this year and would rather extend him over Foxworth. Unless of course, you have the CB order as Bailey, Paymah, Foxworth, Bly - which is probably how some people see it. ;)
stugotsII
01-23-2008, 01:41 PM
As an Ohio State fan, I watched Bobby Carpenter play in college and quite frankly, he outplayed A.J. Hawk most of the time. He is a solid player that could stand a change in team.
Don't we have to have something of value that Dallas would be interested in to make a deal?
rovolution
01-23-2008, 02:09 PM
Don't we have to have something of value that Dallas would be interested in to make a deal?
foxworth
ayjackson
01-23-2008, 02:11 PM
Don't we have to have something of value that Dallas would be interested in to make a deal?
nickel cornerback to upgrade over Reeves
PRBronco
01-23-2008, 02:12 PM
foxworth
Javon! For both! :D
TheDave
01-23-2008, 02:52 PM
Don't we have to have something of value that Dallas would be interested in to make a deal?
There is a mom joke in there somewhere...
BroncoBuff
01-27-2008, 04:02 PM
After getting a late 3rd for Foxworth we'd be looking at a good crop of picks.
I agree with 90% of what you say Drek, but trading a homegrown talent like Foxworth - who's not even UFA yet - is nuts. It's the exact opposite of what we should do ... draft well and hold onto that drafted talent at least until they draw un-matchable UFA interest.
What's even harder to comprehend is that you want to trade him for a draft pick identical to where we got him ... late third. We got lucky with Foxworth there, and based on our draft history, it's kinda unlikely to happen again.
I agree with 90% of what you say Drek, but trading a homegrown talent like Foxworth - who's not even UFA yet - is nuts. It's the exact opposite of what we should do ... draft well and hold onto that drafted talent at least until they draw un-matchable UFA interest.
What's even harder to comprehend is that you want to trade him for a draft pick identical to where we got him ... late third. We got lucky with Foxworth there, and based on our draft history, it's kinda unlikely to happen again.
He will be a UFA next season though, and you're crazy if you think he'll sign up long term here unless we pay him starter's money to play the nickel.
He isn't going to be on this roster after 2008, thats about 99% certain. So why hang onto him, blocking Paymah for another season (who we could potentially re-up on an affordable long term deal), only to see him walk then and we're all praying we get a 4th or a 5th in 2010 for a comp pick?
Foxworth just isn't that special. He's got some good skills, sound fundamentals and technique, plays well in zones, has good agility, but his ball awareness is mediocre at best, he doesn't cover man to man at a quality starter level, and he's too damn small to play safety (like he even wants to). He's the definition of league average. If we can cash him in for a 3rd in this deep draft this organization is better off to take it.
I know everyone likes to beat the "develop your own talent like the Pats and Colts" drum, but you have to realize that the reason those teams can give big contracts to Brady, Seymour, Light, Manning, Wayne, etc. and still stay under the cap is because they let a dozen league average guys walk instead of paying them league average starter's salary. You can replace league average reliably through the draft if you have a good FO. You can't replace the spent cap room or superstars. That is what we should prioritize.
Getting a 3rd for Foxworth lets us draft another, more pressing need now, not two years down the road, with new blood that is paid the minimum and has the potential to be significantly better than league average. As long as we doesn't screw up they'll be at least that though. If we can't trust he FO to draft a superior player to Foxworth with a 3rd rounder in this deep ass draft then I don't see much hope for the franchise under this current regime period.