Bowlen wary of trying fast fix

[TheDave]

Bowlen wary of trying fast fix

By Bill Williamson
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 01/13/2008 02:20:43 AM MST


As the Broncos work to find a way to shed back-to-back seasons without making the playoffs, owner Pat Bowlen wants the team to avoid desperate attempts at a quick fix.

After going 9-7 and missing the playoffs in the 2006 season, the Broncos were one of the most active teams in free agency last spring, signing several big-dollar players.

Yet Bowlen, who Friday reiterated that Mike Shanahan will remain his coach for the long haul, got little bang for his buck as the Broncos took a step backward in 2007 and finished 7-9.

Many of the players Denver have brought in, including Travis Henry, Todd Sauerbrun, Javon Walker (acquired through a trade), Daniel Graham, Simeon Rice and Sam Adams, had on- and/or off-field issues, leaving a glaring pockmark on a 2007 season that Bowlen repeatedly painted as "disappointing."

While the Broncos aren't expected to be major players in free agency, as Shanahan indicated Thursday, Bowlen said the team has to be more careful when it brings in players.

"We made some mistakes in free agency that hurt us," he said. "From both on the field and off the field (aspects). We can't do that in the future."

Without specifically naming players, Bowlen said there will be changes this offseason, which he labeled as important.

"There will be some players that won't be here," Bowlen said. "But, ultimately, that will be up to Mike."

Among the players most likely on the chopping block are Henry and Walker.

Henry was injured and went through a long drug saga with the NFL. He eventually was exonerated. Walker also had injury issues, and the day after the season said he wasn't a good fit in Denver. Both players have big option bonuses due in the next two months, and it appears the only way either will remain with the Broncos is with a significant cut in pay.

While Bowlen said it is important the team does not have any more character issues in the future, he said, "I don't think we have a major character problem here."

Bowlen believes 2007 was doomed because there was too much individualism and not enough camaraderie. He pointed to late collapses against Green Bay and Chicago as focal points for his frustrations.

"There were three or four games we lost that we should have won," Bowlen said. "I can't really explain what it was, but something was just missing."

Bowlen said the Broncos missed the presence of injured veterans Rod Smith and Tom Nalen. Bowlen also said he "loves" safety John Lynch and hopes Lynch returns for his 16th season in the NFL.

Bowlen said if the Broncos continue their two-year string of strong drafts and have better luck health-wise than they did in 2007, they can return to playoff form.

"I don't think we are that far away from being a playoff team again. We should have won three or four games we lost this year," Bowlen said. "I think we have a good young core of a team."

Bowlen said Jay Cutler, who just finished his first full season as Denver's quarterback, is capable of carrying the team on his shoulders in close games and making a difference.

"I think it's time," said Bowlen, who took over the team in John Elway's second year. "It was John's third and fourth season when he started doing that. Jay is a great young quarterback, and I think he is ready."

When the topic came to his coach, Bowlen continued his support despite public opinion that suggests some Broncos fans are ready for a change after 13 seasons of the Shanahan era. Bowlen said he is lucky to have Shanahan. Recent speculation that Bowlen was ready for a change fueled rumors Atlanta and Washington were prepared to pursue Shanahan.

Bowlen, who last year gave Shanahan a contract extension through 2011, said his longtime coach isn't going anywhere.

"I know this season was tough on Mike, and he and his staff worked hard," Bowlen said. "Mike is my coach. For our club, certainly, I think he is the best coach in the NFL."

Bowlen said there will be no changes in the personnel department and general manager Ted Sundquist and his staff will remain.

"We have to get better in all aspects," Bowlen said, "and will work to get better."

Bowlen said he was disappointed the Jim Bates experiment on the defensive side of the ball ended after only one season when Bates left last week. Still, Bowlen said he was unwilling to make Bates "the whipping boy" for going 7-9.

Bowlen said it will be everyone's job in the organization to find a way to return to form.

"It was very disappointing, and we weren't expecting it," Bowlen said. "It was very difficult. I'd have to look through the media guides over the past 24 years to see what my worst seasons were, but this had to be in the worst three, four seasons."

Bill Williamson: 303-954-1262 or bwilliamson@denverpost.com

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_7955332

[Kaylore]

He's paying attention. That's good to know.

[Tombstone RJ]

If Bowlen told Shanahan to make the draft his top priority and to only use FA as a stop gap when the Broncos can't make it work with the current roster, then Shanny may change his strategy for winning, long term.

Also, when it comes to FA, the Broncos have to bring in players that fit the system, period. Not big names, but productive players who will fit into the scheme and be a true team player.

[DenverBrit]

He's paying attention. That's good to know.

We can always count on a man with millions of $ at stake, to pay attention, regardless of his public stance. :thumbs:

[p7superfly]

I say we pay the piper for a year.

Why delay the inevitable?

Grab pieces where we can, and regroup.

[HEAV]

We can always count on a man with millions of $ at stake, to pay attention, regardless of his public stance. :thumbs:



Well it also helps when he looks past the two silver trophies and starts seeing things aren't what they once where...

[lex]

I wonder if Bly is one of the me guys he was alluding to? Seriously, unlike Henry and Walker, he was able to remain on the field but countless times he threw someone else under the bus to spare himself from any blame, yet, numerous times that guy gave up big plays gambling.

[BarefootKicker]

here's a quote for the "sundquist DOES matter" crowd

"There will be some players that won't be here," Bowlen said. "But, ultimately, that will be up to Mike."

[The MVPlaya]

Good...we can make smart moves for now and the long haul.

[bpc]

Just as long as he understands that we can win by dropping coin on a guy like COREY WILLIAMS AT DT. The guy is still young, coming into his prime and purely healthy...

Well, we tend to go away from players with the last attribute but here is to hoping we change. :)

[Meck77]

We're paying for mistakes made years ago via the draft amongst other botched FAs, revolving coaches etc.

We didn't get here Quick and there is no quick FIX. The biggest consistency we've had is Shanny calling the shots. He either rights the ship or it continues to sink. 9-7, 7-9, next year? Shanny claims he should win 10 games no matter what. I guess if that is our goal year in year out and Bowlen is cool with that then that is what we are going to get. I can see the strategy of having an average or slightly better than average approach to owning a team I suppose. It will keep the money coming in and fans in the seats.

It takes bold steps to win a superbowl.

[theAPAOps5]

Those drafts that where we had Nash, Lelei, Foster, they are killing us right now. If the recent drafts are as good as advertised they will come to fruition in the future.

The question is can the ADD fans that have made this place so unbearable lately take the rebuilding process or will they jump ship because they aren't getting it right now.

[HEAV]

It takes bold steps to win a superbowl.



Some people are happy with being complacent. Myself I prefer the franchise make a bold move.

Bolwen has to take some control of his franchise back.

He has been the check writer for far too long. No coach (even the greats) can sustain a level for 10 plus years.

Shula,Knoll, Landry, Gibbs all great coach's, but all struggle keeping their teams at the top.

Gibbs was one of the most ceribral coaches out in the game. But a few week ago we all saw him call back to back timeouts.

Shanny had his time. But that was a decade ago.

I just fear this team will still be average two or three years from now.

We all have seen the same mistakes the past 3-4 years.

Issue of talent on the both lines, the money being spent of players with issues.

The handling of some of these players.

The lack of creative play calling.

The loss of quality assitant coach's and the questionable replacement of those coaches with former Broncos and other team castoff's.

Then the blind following of letting these new coaches direct the lead of player personnel.

It's riuned this team.



I'm tired of the Broncos being complacent. I want this fanchise to be great again, be respected, be feared.

[maher_tyler]

I wonder if Bly is one of the me guys he was alluding to? Seriously, unlike Henry and Walker, he was able to remain on the field but countless times he threw someone else under the bus to spare himself from any blame, yet, numerous times that guy gave up big plays gambling.

everyone gave up big plays on D...

[maher_tyler]

Just as long as he understands that we can win by dropping coin on a guy like COREY WILLIAMS AT DT. The guy is still young, coming into his prime and purely healthy...

Well, we tend to go away from players with the last attribute but here is to hoping we change. :)

I think if we can pick up a good DT, a good LT and possibley a MLB and move DJ back to the weakside we'll be good to go..ovbiously staying healthy next year will also help..thats why you pick up solid Vets that'll come cheap so when a starter goes down he can fill in..i'm already excited for next year!!

[Cito Pelon]

here's a quote for the "sundquist DOES matter" crowd

"There will be some players that won't be here," Bowlen said. "But, ultimately, that will be up to Mike."

Yup, that was pretty clear who runs the FO.

[Kaylore]

It takes bold steps to win a superbowl.

Maybe but you have to be a contender first and to be a really good team you need to build through the draft and create consistency on both sides of the football. Draft guys that grow up in a system so they know it and stick with it. In time your team will be really good and then you can make a few bold moves to help take you over the top. However mostly it takes a good plan with good drafting and steady improvement.

[lex]

everyone gave up big plays on D...

Im not sure what your point is. Im not saying Bly is the only guy giving up plays. Not sure where you got that from what I said.

[Cito Pelon]

Shanny has to get this O in gangbuster mode. This team has to score galore to win Titles. 2008, Shanny has to get this O scoring. Otherwise, what's the point in keeping him around?

[Man-Goblin]

here's a quote for the "sundquist DOES matter" crowd

"There will be some players that won't be here," Bowlen said. "But, ultimately, that will be up to Mike."

Please. Mike Shanahan makes informed decisions from the information given to him from the people around him.. You think the Patriots would draft someone that Bill Belichick is adamantly against?

[lex]

Shanny has to get this O in gangbuster mode. This team has to score galore to win Titles. 2008, Shanny has to get this O scoring. Otherwise, what's the point in keeping him around?

Thats a reason to not devote the draft to defense once again. Much of our recent drafts have been focused on defense relying in large part on Shanahans acumen. Im with you, we should draft offense and get FA defense.

[orinjkrush]

shanny et.al. should get the o going gangbusters. but he needs some help getting the D going and Slowey ain't gonna get it done. (look at his record)can Shanny resurrect joe collier from the grave for the D? Or jeez bring Tommy Jackson back, anybody who know what the heck D is all about. Enough with the musical chairs already. Shanny can't even pick a D coordinator for g*ds sake.

[Tombstone RJ]

I'm not sure why Shanahan has not gone ahead and embraced a 3-4 defense due to his utter inability to build a team around the 4-3 concept. Finding players, good players, to run a 3-4 defense, IMHO, is easier than the 4-3 because building a team around LBs is easier than building a team around those oh-so inconsistent defensive ends and defensive tackles that seem to get rotated, not only game in and game out, but year in and year out.

Hey, here's and idea Shanny: TRY GOING TO A 3-4 BASE AND SEE IF THAT WORKS!

[ZONA]

Bowlen is no stupid man. He knows damn well that the player talent is not elite level right now and injuries did play a major roll. Yes, Shanny could have done some things different but I think Bowlen would rather allow his elite level coach some slack then axe him and try and roll the dice on somebody else. Shanny can put this team back on the map faster then anybody else I believe.

I love Bowlen's view of the big picture right now. Honestly, I do believe he and Mike had a sit down and probably agreed, they were a bit further away then they thought, and the best thing would be to build smart through the draft, even if it takes a few years, then to make rash moves to try and win it all tomorrow.

[ZONA]

I'm not sure why Shanahan has not gone ahead and embraced a 3-4 defense due to his utter inability to build a team around the 4-3 concept. Finding players, good players, to run a 3-4 defense, IMHO, is easier than the 4-3 because building a team around LBs is easier than building a team around those oh-so inconsistent defensive ends and defensive tackles that seem to get rotated, not only game in and game out, but year in and year out.

Hey, here's and idea Shanny: TRY GOING TO A 3-4 BASE AND SEE IF THAT WORKS!

I agree - but he probably watched how good the Giants 4 down were today and any thought of changing was history..................lol.

[CBF1]

Oh god are we in trouble again this next season :(

[Tombstone RJ]

I agree - but he probably watched how good the Giants 4 down were today and any thought of changing was history..................lol.

I just want Shanahan to build the best team around the talent he has on the team. He seems to do just the opposit. He seems to force guys into positions that they aren't comfortable in. DJ is a perfect example. He's a natural outside LB. Why force him inside? What Shanny should have done is keep DJ outside and put the, no chit here, SMARTEST LB on the team at the MLB position.

Coaches like Belichick always put their players in the best position to make plays. They don't put their players "out of position" in order to fill a position.

It's not like the Broncos don't have talent. They do. In fact, the Broncos cast offs often become starters on other teams. One example is Dominic Hixon who looks great for the Giants.

Shanahan has and eye for talent. What he doesn't seem to consistently do is put that talent together correctly to achieve the best team.

[Cito Pelon]

Bowlen is no stupid man. He knows damn well that the player talent is not elite level right now and injuries did play a major roll. Yes, Shanny could have done some things different but I think Bowlen would rather allow his elite level coach some slack then axe him and try and roll the dice on somebody else. Shanny can put this team back on the map faster then anybody else I believe.

I love Bowlen's view of the big picture right now. Honestly, I do believe he and Mike had a sit down and probably agreed, they were a bit further away then they thought, and the best thing would be to build smart through the draft, even if it takes a few years, then to make rash moves to try and win it all tomorrow.

Man, I sure hope you're right about that.

[Taco John]

This is exactly the approach that I had figured Bowlen would take. I think Bowlen is as much a Shanahan fan as anyone on this board is. For good reason, IMO. I don't think this season is anything to get hyper-critical about. I think we'll bounce back strong next year with a more stable team.

[Blueflame]

This is exactly the approach that I had figured Bowlen would take. I think Bowlen is as much a Shanahan fan as anyone on this board is. For good reason, IMO. I don't think this season is anything to get hyper-critical about. I think we'll bounce back strong next year with a more stable team.

And hopefully... better health. Injuries are always the "wild card" in the deck.

[broncosteven]

Maybe but you have to be a contender first and to be a really good team you need to build through the draft and create consistency on both sides of the football. Draft guys that grow up in a system so they know it and stick with it. In time your team will be really good and then you can make a few bold moves to help take you over the top. However mostly it takes a good plan with good drafting and steady improvement.

That and not having dead cap dollars on the books year after year because of bad deals to questionable players like

Griese
That CB from KFC
Ihop
etc...

Seems every year there is 5mill in dead cap $ that could have been used to keep a guy like Berry or get a big time guy like Kerney.

[broncosteven]

BTW did anyone notice the bad black velvet painting Bowlen was sitting in front of in the pic on the link? Looked like Cheech and Chong

[TheReverend]

I just want Shanahan to build the best team around the talent he has on the team. He seems to do just the opposit. He seems to force guys into positions that they aren't comfortable in. DJ is a perfect example. He's a natural outside LB. Why force him inside? What Shanny should have done is keep DJ outside and put the, no chit here, SMARTEST LB on the team at the MLB position.

Coaches like Belichick always put their players in the best position to make plays. They don't put their players "out of position" in order to fill a position.

It's not like the Broncos don't have talent. They do. In fact, the Broncos cast offs often become starters on other teams. One example is Dominic Hixon who looks great for the Giants.

Shanahan has and eye for talent. What he doesn't seem to consistently do is put that talent together correctly to achieve the best team.


AWESOME POST! BELICEK IS AWESOME! HE'D NEVER DO ANYTHING THAT STUPID SHANAHAN WOULD DO! DJ AT MIKE! WHAT AN IDIOT! BELICEK WOULD NEVER DO POSITION SWAPS LIKE AN OLB PLAYING INSIDE OR A WR PLAYING CB!

[Beantown Bronco]

I'm not sure why Shanahan has not gone ahead and embraced a 3-4 defense due to his utter inability to build a team around the 4-3 concept. Finding players, good players, to run a 3-4 defense, IMHO, is easier than the 4-3 because building a team around LBs is easier than building a team around those oh-so inconsistent defensive ends and defensive tackles that seem to get rotated, not only game in and game out, but year in and year out.

Hey, here's and idea Shanny: TRY GOING TO A 3-4 BASE AND SEE IF THAT WORKS!

The truly successful 3-4 defenses in the NFL nowadays have ridiculous talent at DLine.....it's not like they build around the LBs and bring in scraps at the DLine. Most seem to have at least one if not two players with probowl talent up front. The Broncos would currently have zero probowlers on the DLine if they went with a 3-4.

[Beantown Bronco]

It's not like the Broncos don't have talent. They do. In fact, the Broncos cast offs often become starters on other teams. One example is Dominic Hixon who looks great for the Giants.


I'd argue the flip-side. For every Hixon, I can name two Tatum Bells or George Fosters.

[broncsyanks]

THIS sucks. we wont be heavey pursuers in free agency? so we are going to rely on shannys draft picks? uh oh!!. we nee the help of FA to get this done. ok so goodbye to walker and henry. i am fine with that. just please bring in some guys that will help. and we cannot find all that in the draft. we will need a LB as well as a DT.

[yavoon]

I'd argue the flip-side. For every Hixon, I can name two Tatum Bells or George Fosters.

u mean high round shanny picks that are no longer on the broncos?

[BroncoMan4ever]

I wonder if Bly is one of the me guys he was alluding to? Seriously, unlike Henry and Walker, he was able to remain on the field but countless times he threw someone else under the bus to spare himself from any blame, yet, numerous times that guy gave up big plays gambling.

That's his style of play. They knew it when they paid him. He performed well, but it doesn't show because the defense as a whole sucked ass.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Man, I sure hope you're right about that.

Zona is right, and if he isn't, it would not surprise me to see Shannahan gone after next season and Denver go after Cowher.

[yavoon]

The truly successful 3-4 defenses in the NFL nowadays have ridiculous talent at DLine.....it's not like they build around the LBs and bring in scraps at the DLine. Most seem to have at least one if not two players with probowl talent up front. The Broncos would currently have zero probowlers on the DLine if they went with a 3-4.

truly successful *defenses* have good defensive lines.

[yavoon]

That's his style of play. They knew it when they paid him. He performed well, but it doesn't show because the defense as a whole sucked ass.
vs #2 WR
DEN -- -15.4%-- 8

it shows if you know where to look:).

[lex]

That's his style of play. They knew it when they paid him. He performed well, but it doesn't show because the defense as a whole sucked ass.

Style of play is only part of what I was addressing. I was also talking about the things he says to the media.

[summerdenver]

Coaches like Belichick always put their players in the best position to make plays. They don't put their players "out of position" in order to fill a position.


I humbly submit "Monty Beisel" experiment and Jonathan Sullivan to contradict this statement. Just remove Brady and Manning and NE and IND won't even make the playoffs in any of the last 5 years let alone win superbowls.

[Tombstone RJ]

AWESOME POST! BELICEK IS AWESOME! HE'D NEVER DO ANYTHING THAT STUPID SHANAHAN WOULD DO! DJ AT MIKE! WHAT AN IDIOT! BELICEK WOULD NEVER DO POSITION SWAPS LIKE AN OLB PLAYING INSIDE OR A WR PLAYING CB!

Belichick has made alot of moves do to injuries and they seem to have panned out. Fact is, Belichick is alot better at judging talent for his system than Shanahan is. Again, it's about putting the right players in the right positions. Shanahan does not do this as well as Belichick.

[Tombstone RJ]

I humbly submit "Monty Beisel" experiment and Jonathan Sullivan to contradict this statement. Just remove Brady and Manning and NE and IND won't even make the playoffs in any of the last 5 years let alone win superbowls.

I don't understand your point. Please explain.

[yavoon]

Belichick has made alot of moves do to injuries and they seem to have panned out. Fact is, Belichick is alot better at judging talent for his system than Shanahan is. Again, it's about putting the right players in the right positions. Shanahan does not do this as well as Belichick.

bellicheck is probably the most multi-positional coach in the NFL. he tried to make klecko an ILB(failed). he uses rodney harrison as the safety valve on special teams, randy moss to defend against hail mary's, troy brown to play nickel. heath evans has taken goalline carries away from laurence maroney, vrabel at tight end, ILB, OLB and probably some DE, seau at fullback, seymour at fullback, DE, DT. I've seen rodney harrison bump a receiver at LCB

[Tombstone RJ]

The truly successful 3-4 defenses in the NFL nowadays have ridiculous talent at DLine.....it's not like they build around the LBs and bring in scraps at the DLine. Most seem to have at least one if not two players with probowl talent up front. The Broncos would currently have zero probowlers on the DLine if they went with a 3-4.

I'm not sure I agree with this. They have a different kind of talent on the dline. The dline on a 3-4 is supposed to hold up the opposing offensive line so that the LBs can make plays. Yes, that takes a certain kind of talent, or more specifically, a certain kind of mindset. It also takes bigger guys to fill these rolls. But that's not necessarily more talent or "ridiculous" talent.

It's just different.

Anyhow, Shanahan has proved over the last 10 years that he can't win using the 4-3 defense. He needs to try something, anything, to get this defense back on track.

[Tombstone RJ]

bellicheck is probably the most multi-positional coach in the NFL. he tried to make klecko an ILB(failed). he uses rodney harrison as the safety valve on special teams, randy moss to defend against hail mary's, troy brown to play nickel. heath evans has taken goalline carries away from laurence maroney, vrabel at tight end, ILB, OLB and probably some DE, seau at fullback, seymour at fullback, DE, DT. I've seen rodney harrison bump a receiver at LCB

I agree, Belichick seems to get the most out of his players. Again, it's about putting the right player in the right position to make plays. Belichick does this well, Shanahan does not. Not on defense anyway.

[Popps]

Well Pat, let me make this easy for you...

You've got 3, maybe 4 guys on defense that would start if they went to another NFL team.

You've got a few scattered offensive players that occasionally play well when they're healthy.

You needn't worry about a "fast fix," buddy. That is, unless we're trading entire teams with someone.

[Tombstone RJ]

I'd argue the flip-side. For every Hixon, I can name two Tatum Bells or George Fosters.

Ok, I'll play along. Here's another former Bronco who is a starter on another team: Billy Miller.

Now, please go ahead and name two Tatum Bells or George Fosters.

[~Crash~]

Maybe but you have to be a contender first and to be a really good team you need to build through the draft and create consistency on both sides of the football. Draft guys that grow up in a system so they know it and stick with it. In time your team will be really good and then you can make a few bold moves to help take you over the top. However mostly it takes a good plan with good drafting and steady improvement.

build through the draft makes your team strong at the end of the season . teams that have good drafts at the O-line and D-lines keep in the mix at going to the play offs

[~Crash~]

Belichick has made alot of moves do to injuries and they seem to have panned out. Fact is, Belichick is alot better at judging talent for his system than Shanahan is. Again, it's about putting the right players in the right positions. Shanahan does not do this as well as Belichick.

Belichick tests his players thet know there scheme . at week 7 did our players have a clue ? Belichick would cut a player that could not tackle and how many years have we had players that go only for big shots only to see the other team running for the end zone . Missed tackles have cost us how many games in the last ten years ? If Slowik would just work on form tackles we would improve on the D side by scary amounts. I have no problem with oneplayer being the enforcer the rest needs to wrap up or turn in there play books .

[Traveler]

Belichick tests his players thet know there scheme . at week 7 did our players have a clue ? Belichick would cut a player that could not tackle and how many years have we had players that go only for big shots only to see the other team running for the end zone . Missed tackles have cost us how many games in the last ten years ? If Slowik would just work on form tackles we would improve on the D side by scary amounts. I have no problem with oneplayer being the enforcer the rest needs to wrap up or turn in there play books .

Ditto!

[fontaine]

Belichick has made alot of moves do to injuries and they seem to have panned out. Fact is, Belichick is alot better at judging talent for his system than Shanahan is. Again, it's about putting the right players in the right positions. Shanahan does not do this as well as Belichick.

Is that why he had Brady riding the pine while Bledsoe stunk up the place? Or why Weis begged him to draft Brady and they only did it because they had a comp pick?

Please, without lucking out on Brady Belichick would have Browned the Patriots. He's a good defensive coach and knows how to use Brady but comparing coaches based on luck is silly.

[fontaine]

I just want Shanahan to build the best team around the talent he has on the team. He seems to do just the opposit. He seems to force guys into positions that they aren't comfortable in. DJ is a perfect example. He's a natural outside LB. Why force him inside? What Shanny should have done is keep DJ outside and put the, no chit here, SMARTEST LB on the team at the MLB position.

Except Shanahan didn't do that.

It's been made pretty clear that he allowed Bates to do his thing on defense UNTIL around the bye when Shanahan stepped in and asked him to put a safety in the box consistently to stop the run and move away from his schemes a bit.

If you give Shanahan the blame for DJ position shift (which was Bates' call) do you also give Shanahan the credit for making Champ even better by having him play off a bit more when Champ was in contention for DPOY in '06?

[TheReverend]

Is that why he had Brady riding the pine while Bledsoe stunk up the place? Or why Weis begged him to draft Brady and they only did it because they had a comp pick?

Please, without lucking out on Brady Belichick would have Browned the Patriots. He's a good defensive coach and knows how to use Brady but comparing coaches based on luck is silly.

It was actually QB coach Dick Rehbein, and he narrowed it to Brady and Tim Rattay... basically a coin flip from there. Imagine if it came up Head's instead of Tail's! Peyton would have 4 SB rings.

[fontaine]

It was actually QB coach Dick Rehbein, and he narrowed it to Brady and Tim Rattay... basically a coin flip from there. Imagine if it came up Head's instead of Tail's! Peyton would have 4 SB rings.

For some reason I thought it was Weis but you're right it was one of those calls where they just took a shot at a player and I think the guy (Weir or Rehbein) is on record for saying that if they hadn't the comp pick they wouldn't have gone QB because it was viewed as a "free" pick or something.

No doubt Bellichick is a good coach but ESPIN and other types will have you believe he's god or something.

[-Slap-]

Bronco fans don't have the patience to sit still for anything except a quick fix. That's why we spend every off season trying to fix everything and wind up fixing nothing.

This off season should be devoted to improving the offense, especially the guys protecting Cutler, by far the most valuable asset on the team. The defense should make due with a duct tape and bailing wire approach for one more season.

[jonny1]

Anyhow, Shanahan has proved over the last 10 years that he can't win using the 4-3 defense. He needs to try something, anything, to get this defense back on track.

Excuse me, but wasn't it almost exactly ten years ago some guy named Shanahan coached the winning team in SBXXXII? Again in SBXXXIII (9 years ago).

Coached the team that was in the AFC championship game TWO years ago?

Sheesh.

[alkemical]

Folks, it doesn't matter which scheme you use on D, if you don't have talent.

Finding a true NT DT for the 3/4 isn't easy, esp. with other teams that run the 3/4. Dallas, Pitt, SD for just an example. True, you can work with more tweeners for DE & LB spots - but you still need TALENT.

The 4-3 works, you just need talent for it to work. If you don't have good ILB's who can hold the point of attack, you are going to get gashed for an easy 5yds up the gut all game in a 3-4. (See Chiefs v. Ravens for example on how the cheifs just ran OVER the ravens before).

It's not that the 3-4 is an easier D to build at all. You need 4 starting LB's & then you need backups. It's no different than any other D.

personally, i'd rather get versitle players, and then you can switch the D up depending on teams or situations.

[Inkana7]

Ok, I'll play along. Here's another former Bronco who is a starter on another team: Billy Miller.

Now, please go ahead and name two Tatum Bells or George Fosters.

Lenny Walls, Mike Anderson.

[NFLBRONCO]

I think most fans would be patient if they looked at the team without orange blinders on. They bought whatever Shanny said esp we are talented only 1 or 2 players away speech FOR YEARS. This team has too many holes to fix in one year. 08 will be like 07 unless we hit the jackpot. Most of the biggest positions of need take 1 yr of development time. If they make strides to bolster OL I'll be happy. I hope we go quality over quantity this year in FA with 2 players MAX build rest in draft that's a good start.

[worm]

Lenny Walls, Mike Anderson.

Deltha O'Neil

[summerdenver]

I don't understand your point. Please explain.

Even Patriots/ Belicheck make mistakes. Two years ago they signed Monty Biesel in FA and tried to fit him as IL in their 3-4 system. It did not work and half way thru the season, they benched him. Last year they traded for Jonathan Sullivan from NO and he did not even make the team.

[yavoon]

Folks, it doesn't matter which scheme you use on D, if you don't have talent.

Finding a true NT DT for the 3/4 isn't easy, esp. with other teams that run the 3/4. Dallas, Pitt, SD for just an example. True, you can work with more tweeners for DE & LB spots - but you still need TALENT.

The 4-3 works, you just need talent for it to work. If you don't have good ILB's who can hold the point of attack, you are going to get gashed for an easy 5yds up the gut all game in a 3-4. (See Chiefs v. Ravens for example on how the cheifs just ran OVER the ravens before).

It's not that the 3-4 is an easier D to build at all. You need 4 starting LB's & then you need backups. It's no different than any other D.

personally, i'd rather get versitle players, and then you can switch the D up depending on teams or situations.

fatties are not the uber things ppl pretend they are. plenty of good 3-4's have been run w/ ppl barely 300 lbs. steelers went 15-1 w/o casey hampton and w/ chris hoke, barely 300 lbs. ravens went for years w/ kelley gregg as NT, barely 300 lbs.

and I'd say the 3-4 is easier in that it is easier to scheme results in a 3-4 w/ the added flexibility of an extra LB. it is also easier to get ur best passrushers on the field, most high end pass rushers now are tweeners, the 270-290 lbs true defensive ends that can pass rush are VASTLY RARER than the 250-270 lbs tweeners.

[Inkana7]

fatties are not the uber things ppl pretend they are. plenty of good 3-4's have been run w/ ppl barely 300 lbs. steelers went 15-1 w/o casey hampton and w/ chris hoke, barely 300 lbs. ravens went for years w/ kelley gregg as NT, barely 300 lbs.

That's just looking at the numbers. Those are all HUGE, strong, powerful men.

[zdoor]

Bronco fans don't have the patience to sit still for anything except a quick fix. That's why we spend every off season trying to fix everything and wind up fixing nothing.

This off season should be devoted to improving the offense, especially the guys protecting Cutler, by far the most valuable asset on the team. The defense should make due with a duct tape and bailing wire approach for one more season.

I'd like this approach. It makes sense and we're not fixing everything in one season anyways...

[yavoon]

That's just looking at the numbers. Those are all HUGE, strong, powerful men.

well certainly they are large human beings. but the fact remains they are not the gargantuan impossible to find pink elephants that everyone and their dog repeats that 3-4's need. even dallas this year has played w/ undersized NT's.

[-Slap-]

I just know we need a bigger guy on the nose than Kragen. What about this kid from Syracuse?

[Tombstone RJ]

Lenny Walls, Mike Anderson.

Shanny didn't draft Walls, he was an undrafted FA signing so it's not a wasted pick. Anderson did great with the Broncos and was a late round pick, he panned out great in the Broncos system and you can't call him a bust. I think both Walls and Anderson are still playing for other teams, I know Anderson is/was playing for the Ravens.

[Tombstone RJ]

Even Patriots/ Belicheck make mistakes. Two years ago they signed Monty Biesel in FA and tried to fit him as IL in their 3-4 system. It did not work and half way thru the season, they benched him. Last year they traded for Jonathan Sullivan from NO and he did not even make the team.

Point taken. No coach is perfect and certainly B.B. is gonna make a few mistakes. I never said he was infallible, I'm just trying to make a point that Shanahan is not as good as B.B. in using the talent he has.