Shanahan likes Cutler’s direction [Archive] - The Orange Mane

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dragondawg

01-13-2008, 02:14 AM

Winning big games is next step for young QB

By Brian Howell
Longmont Times-Call

ENGLEWOOD — After his first full season as a starting quarterback in the National Football League, Jay Cutler looks like a player with a lot of talent. But he’s yet to prove he can win.

Sound familiar? It does to Denver Broncos head coach Mike Shanahan.

“I just remember John (Elway) in his fourth year, because nobody believed in John Elway, and John had to prove himself in a playoff situation,” Shanahan said. “The only thing you heard about John when he got here for the first four years was that he never played in a bowl game in college and had not taken the Broncos to a playoff (win).”

Like Elway, Cutler never played in a bowl game during his career at Vanderbilt University. In fact, the Commodores were 11-35 in his four seasons under center.

As a starter, Cutler is now 9-12 in the NFL.

Shanahan, who coached Elway for 11 seasons, is far from worried about Cutler, though.

“I was in the same situation with Steve Young following Joe Montana (in San Francisco),” Shanahan said. “He got booed off the field a couple of times in championship games because he didn’t win the big one. He finally did get the monkey off his back.”

Elway wound up winning two Super Bowls and retiring with a then-NFL-record 148 wins as a starter. Young also won a Super Bowl.

While Shanahan isn’t ready to label Cutler in the same class, he sees the ability to get there.

“I don’t know if you say a guy is great until he proves himself he’s great,” Shanahan said. “What made everybody excited about John Elway when he first came in? I think everybody saw a great arm, they saw a great competitor, they saw a guy that would compete. I think that’s what they see in a guy like Cutler. Now he’s got to go out there and do it, just like John did.”

Despite the Broncos finishing 7-9 and failing to reach the playoffs, Cutler had a pretty good season in 2007. He threw for 3,497 yards and 20 touchdowns. He was picked off 14 times but completed 64 percent of his passes.

At 24 years old (he’ll be 25 in April) and with just 21 NFL games under his belt, Cutler is far from polished, however.

“There’s a million things (Cutler can work on),” Shanahan said. “He’s got to work on ball position; he’s got to work on footwork; consistency with his throws — his short throws as well as the medium-range throws; blitzes and how to react to them; footwork when there’s pressure; different things that all quarterbacks go through.”

Shanahan has seen from a distance as several young quarterbacks throughout the league have made the same improvements.

“You take a look at (Tom) Brady or (Peyton) Manning or (Ben) Roethlisberger,” he said. “You take a look at their first 16 games or their first 24 games, and look at the growth — it's night and day.

“When the game slows down for (young quarterbacks) a little bit because they understand defenses and they understand where people are, they play at the level that a couple of these quarterbacks are playing right now.”

Cutler is heading into his second offseason as a starting quarterback, and Shanahan is expecting — or at least hoping — Cutler will come back in 2008 as a better player.

“I think it’ll be a lot easier for him (next season),” Shanahan said. “Anytime you go for a full season as a starter, it’s a great learning experience.

“Everything slows down for you a little bit; it’s another offseason to study film. But you’ve still got to grow. You’ve still got to study; you’ve still got to get better. It just doesn’t happen; you’ve got to work to make it happen.”

http://www.timescall.com/sports_story.asp?id=5811

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 02:35 AM

maher_tyler

01-13-2008, 02:39 AM

I already can't wait for next season!!

brncs_fan

01-13-2008, 02:46 AM

All of this can be aided greatly with 2 good OT's.

MileHighMagic

01-13-2008, 03:42 AM

My only knock on QB1 is his footwork. His ridiculously strong arm has made him develop some bad habits. He throws off balance when he doesn't have to and forces **** falling backwards. I mean... he rolls out and has all day to square up, yet still throws off one leg, falling off to the side.

I wish we could get a wily vet like Trent Dilfer to back up Jay. A coach on the field type, to connect with him on a level Shanahan can't. Kinda like Mike was with John, under Reeves.

backup qb

01-13-2008, 07:51 AM

Cutler has a lot more work to do. He's a long, long way from being a game-changing QB. Next year without a big makeover on his delivery and footwork, he'll be 20-14 again. The Dude is Plummer with velocity.

Plummer with velocity? Come on. The guy has more talent in his leg then Jake had in his whole body. He will improve. I can't believe how people forget that for the most part it takes a couple of years for young qbs to "get it."

FrontRowSeat1

01-13-2008, 08:17 AM

Be best if Shanny came back next year much improved. But...

bpc

01-13-2008, 08:32 AM

Cutler has a lot more work to do. He's a long, long way from being a game-changing QB. Next year without a big makeover on his delivery and footwork, he'll be 20-14 again. The Dude is Plummer with velocity.

This is a silly post. Whenever Cutler could keep us in games, he did. Whenever the protection couldn't keep the pass rush off of him, he had a bad game... Detroit, at Oakland, SD twice among other games.

Now there are certain things that Cutler can grow into that will help him in these situation and I think Shanahan hit the nail on the head. "“He’s got to work on ball position; he’s got to work on footwork; consistency with his throws — his short throws as well as the medium-range throws; blitzes and how to react to them; footwork when there’s pressure; different things that all quarterbacks go through.”

NYBronco

01-13-2008, 08:35 AM

Who is this Plummer dude? Cutler is a great competitor like Elway with a sense of urgency. Get him an improved and consistent O line and lets see what he can really do.

Great article from the paper of the city of my youth.

Drek

01-13-2008, 11:03 AM

Get Cutler some good OTs and watch his footwork improve instantly before our eyes as we becomes and upper echelon QB.

Ironlung

01-13-2008, 11:09 AM

Jesterhole

01-13-2008, 11:41 AM

Dedhed

01-13-2008, 11:43 AM

Cutler has a lot more work to do. He's a long, long way from being a game-changing QB. Next year without a big makeover on his delivery and footwork, he'll be 20-14 again. The Dude is Plummer with velocity.

This is just no thought drivel. Of course the kid has work to do, but he's not at all a long way from being a game-changing QB in this league. And saying he needs a big makeover in his delivery is just day 1 stupid.

There's a difference between having to rely on good footwork and just wanting it for pretty's sake. Guys like Plummer, Brees, Brady, and Eli Manning need immaculate footwork because they don't have the arm to deliver the ball on time with accuracy. That is all that matters from a QB. Cutler, much like Brett Favre and Elway, has the ability to get the ball to the receiver accurately and on time regardless of where his feet are or which direction he's moving. Favre to this day has awkward footwork and throws a high percentage of balls off the back foot, and I guarantee his coach would be the first to tell you that he could care less if the ball gets to the receiver. Elway developed better footwork after he had any kind of protection in front of him, and I would bet the same will hold true for Cutler.

I saw very few, and I mean like 5 all year, balls that went awry or lacked pace due to poor footwork or delivery.

HEAV

01-13-2008, 11:50 AM

He needs a real QB qoach. Some one that played the position and can devote time to Jay 100%, not son of an assitant or a head coach wearing multiple hats and stretched thin by wearing all the hats.

Northman

01-13-2008, 11:58 AM

This is a silly post. Whenever Cutler could keep us in games, he did. Whenever the protection couldn't keep the pass rush off of him, he had a bad game... Detroit, at Oakland, SD twice among other games.

Now there are certain things that Cutler can grow into that will help him in these situation and I think Shanahan hit the nail on the head. "“He’s got to work on ball position; he’s got to work on footwork; consistency with his throws — his short throws as well as the medium-range throws; blitzes and how to react to them; footwork when there’s pressure; different things that all quarterbacks go through.”

Not only that but i didnt realize that Plummer was a second year Qb. Ha!

Pontius Pirate

01-13-2008, 01:04 PM

Plummer took the Cardinals (the Cardinals for chrissakes!) to their only playoff berth ever in AZ in his 2nd full year as QB, let alone all the playoffs he took the Broncos to. And it's fair to say those Cards were not nearly as talented as these Broncs.

Let's see Cutler take the Broncs to the playoffs next year and then maybe we can compare Cutler to Plummer.

Plummer in college and NFL = winner/winner.
Cutler in college and NFL = loser/???

MileHighMagic

01-13-2008, 01:11 PM

I saw very few, and I mean like 5 all year, balls that went awry or lacked pace due to poor footwork or delivery.

I remember quite a few passes that nose dived at wr's feet or were inaccurate due to poor fundamentals. Some passes in the redzone when he had plenty of time to set his feet but still threw the ball off balance and on the run, consequently was almost picked off or the ball was deflected.

I don't mind him throwing off balance when he has to... but if you can square your shoulders to make an even more accurate pass that gets to the wr sooner, giving him a chance to get more YAC yards, or not taking as big of a hit, and giving the defense less time to react... it just makes everyone better.

Don't get me wrong... I love Jay and I truly believe he is gonna be right there with Manning and Brady in the near future but at this point in his career, his footwork is not good and it is holding him back. I understand the line was in shambles. I understand he is still very young. I understand he has to throw on the run and off balance more often because of the bootleg... but even "happy feet" Plummer set his feet when he could.

I just think he has always been able to get away with poor footwork because his arm is so strong and was never coached out of it because he produced. Then, he is forced even more into it... running for his life at Vandy. Now, at this level... every little detail and every split second matters. I believe improved footwork will put him in the upper echelon of qb's by improving his vision, accuracy, timing, strain on his arm, and ability to avoid pressure.

Natedog24

01-13-2008, 01:34 PM

Pontius Pirate

01-13-2008, 01:46 PM

What exactly did Plummer win in the NFL, 1 playoff game?? If that qualifies him as a winner in the NFL then there will be a lot of guys with the same tag.

A career winning record (over a long career)....and I believe he's won two playoff games (1 with Denver, 1 with AZ).

ward63

01-13-2008, 02:42 PM

Get Cutler some good OTs and watch his footwork improve instantly before our eyes as we becomes and upper echelon QB.

Totally AGREE!!! Protect HIM and he won't be running for his life.

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 04:49 PM

This is a silly post. Whenever Cutler could keep us in games, he did. Whenever the protection couldn't keep the pass rush off of him, he had a bad game... Detroit, at Oakland, SD twice among other games.

Now there are certain things that Cutler can grow into that will help him in these situation and I think Shanahan hit the nail on the head. "“He’s got to work on ball position; he’s got to work on footwork; consistency with his throws — his short throws as well as the medium-range throws; blitzes and how to react to them; footwork when there’s pressure; different things that all quarterbacks go through.”

You dope. First you say "silly", then you say the same thing I did.

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 04:52 PM

Dude, you are a industrial size bag of douche.

You know a lot about douches?

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 04:55 PM

Worst post I've seen in a long time. If you can't tell the difference between Jake and Jay, you are too stupid to argue with.

Criminy joe, you guys are too much. I can tell the difference between Jake and Jay, and I stated it - Jay has velocity.

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 05:03 PM

This is just no thought drivel. Of course the kid has work to do, but he's not at all a long way from being a game-changing QB in this league. And saying he needs a big makeover in his delivery is just day 1 stupid.

There's a difference between having to rely on good footwork and just wanting it for pretty's sake. Guys like Plummer, Brees, Brady, and Eli Manning need immaculate footwork because they don't have the arm to deliver the ball on time with accuracy. That is all that matters from a QB. Cutler, much like Brett Favre and Elway, has the ability to get the ball to the receiver accurately and on time regardless of where his feet are or which direction he's moving. Favre to this day has awkward footwork and throws a high percentage of balls off the back foot, and I guarantee his coach would be the first to tell you that he could care less if the ball gets to the receiver. Elway developed better footwork after he had any kind of protection in front of him, and I would bet the same will hold true for Cutler.

I saw very few, and I mean like 5 all year, balls that went awry or lacked pace due to poor footwork or delivery.

Jeez, talk about drivel. You're really reaching in your defense of Cutler's poor mechanics.

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 05:06 PM

He needs a real QB qoach. Some one that played the position and can devote time to Jay 100%, not son of an assitant or a head coach wearing multiple hats and stretched thin by wearing all the hats.

Obviously Shanny recognizes Cutler has a lot of work to do on the basics, so maybe we'll see that happen.

Scarface

01-13-2008, 06:30 PM

Cutler is easily on his way to being a great QB. He's the least of my worries with this team.

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 07:03 PM

Cutler is easily on his way to being a great QB. He's the least of my worries with this team.

Right now he's a serviceable QB, and that's fine with me. I seriously doubt if he'll ever be a "great QB."

chrisp

01-13-2008, 08:23 PM

The Dude is Plummer with velocity.

Well Plummer without velocity got us to the AFC championship game so I'm fine with that........

Northman

01-13-2008, 08:49 PM

A career winning record (over a long career)....and I believe he's won two playoff games (1 with Denver, 1 with AZ).

Yea, he got a lot of that winning record in Denver with a LOT more help. He finished a 10 year career with 161 Tds and 161 Ints with a QB rating or 74.6. And if he won those playoff games by himself than he has also lost 3 of them by himself going by your logic. Jake may have been a good person and a competitor but he is hardly a great QB. And for you too even make the comparison with a QB in his second year is not only moronic but ignorant on your part. When Jay has gotten 8 more years under his belt you can jerk off all you want too about how great Jake was. Until then, its a dumb comparison.

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 08:56 PM

There's a glaring difference between Culter and Plummer. Plummer won games all by himself many times. Cutler doesn't have that "it" factor. He just doesn't have it.

lex

01-13-2008, 08:59 PM

There's a glaring difference between Culter and Plummer. Plummer won games all by himself many times. Cutler doesn't have that "it" factor. He just doesn't have it.

After Plummer was replaced by a rookie our scoring went up to 20 something points a game and we were able to run the ball better again. Not only does Cutler have a stronger arm but he is WAY better than Plummer when it comes to passing in the pocket.

broncos loveI

01-13-2008, 09:00 PM

Lets get Griese back G-Damnit. ROFL!

theAPAOps5

01-13-2008, 09:10 PM

There's a glaring difference between Culter and Plummer. Plummer won games all by himself many times. Cutler doesn't have that "it" factor. He just doesn't have it.

You have no clue about football do you. You really don't.

Northman

01-13-2008, 09:12 PM

You have no clue about football do you. You really don't.

He is just yanking chains. He pulls this **** everyone once in a while.

theAPAOps5

01-13-2008, 09:13 PM

He is just yanking chains. He pulls this **** everyone once in a while.

I know I was making a generalization like he was. Its Telluride that has no clue about football.

Northman

01-13-2008, 09:17 PM

I know I was making a generalization like he was. Its Telluride that has no clue about football.

:thumbsup:

Bronco LB 59

01-13-2008, 09:29 PM

There's a glaring difference between Culter and Plummer. Plummer won games all by himself many times. Cutler doesn't have that "it" factor. He just doesn't have it.

"It" factor is such an overused and vague cliche. I have no idea what it's supposed to mean. Can you get into specifics about Cutler's negatives? You are just writing bullsh!t like a dumb hack.

ZONA

01-13-2008, 09:37 PM

I agree that some better talent on the OL will help this team and Jay improve but that won't help Jay improve his footwork or throwing under pressure. He does have to work on that stuff. Jay will be fine if he takes the attitude that "he's not good enough" instead of saying "if I only had more protection". I'm sure he will be on a program throughout the offseason to improve mechanics as well as film watching. But I'm impressed with how poise he is and his leadership after basically his first year.

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 09:44 PM

You have no clue about football do you. You really don't.

Maybe a little bit. I win some, I lose some, I wreck some. See my sig.

theAPAOps5

01-13-2008, 09:45 PM

Maybe a little bit. I win some, I lose some, I wreck some. See my sig.

I am messing with ya.

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 09:47 PM

He is just yanking chains. He pulls this **** everyone once in a while.

There's a little ring of truth to all I post.

Tombstone RJ

01-13-2008, 09:49 PM

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 09:51 PM

I am messing with ya.

And doing a good job of it. Keep it up.

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 10:02 PM

"It" factor is such an overused and vague cliche. I have no idea what it's supposed to mean. Can you get into specifics about Cutler's negatives? You are just writing bullsh!t like a dumb hack.

I wish I was getting paid like those hacks. I can write inflammatory stuff like this all day, and week after week. There's a little ring of truth, and there's a little BS also. What the hell, I like attention.

~Crash~

01-13-2008, 10:11 PM

"It" factor is such an overused and vague cliche. I have no idea what it's supposed to mean. Can you get into specifics about Cutler's negatives? You are just writing bullsh!t like a dumb hack.

not to poke holes in your arguement but if you are looking for it I can help you his name was John Elway.:afro:

* I would not trade Cutler for anyone . once he learns all the O we will be unstopable.

Cito Pelon

01-13-2008, 10:37 PM

After Plummer was replaced by a rookie our scoring went up to 20 something points a game and we were able to run the ball better again. Not only does Cutler have a stronger arm but he is WAY better than Plummer when it comes to passing in the pocket.

Ok, show me some wins. Show me 20 points a game average. Anubis and Apa can get on me a little bit for stirring up some sh*t, but the bottom line is scoring TD's. Show me a diverse passing game, I'm tired of seeing the only completions are slants and down and outs. Denver has to work the middle of the field passing, and Shanny won't let Cutler do that for a reason - Cutler throws all his INT's in the middle of the field. Cutler has to attack that problem and solve it. Cutler gets rid of the ball way to fast many times when he has a good pocket. He gets antsy and I don't like that. He's not calm in the pocket.

Bladerunner

01-13-2008, 10:47 PM

Ok, show me some wins. Show me 20 points a game average. Anubis and Apa can get on me a little bit for stirring up some sh*t, but the bottom line is scoring TD's. Show me a diverse passing game, I'm tired of seeing the only completions are slants and down and outs. Denver has to work the middle of the field passing, and Shanny won't let Cutler do that for a reason - Cutler throws all his INT's in the middle of the field. Cutler has to attack that problem and solve it. Cutler gets rid of the ball way to fast many times when he has a good pocket. He gets antsy and I don't like that. He's not calm in the pocket.

this is the best post you've made in this thread...I also agree that one of Cutler's biggest flaws is lack of vision in the middle of the field...a good number of his picks were thrown right at a LB that he didn't see...and I also agree he's a little antsy in the pocket, but I think he'll get better as he develops some rapport with his receiver corps.

I was generally impressed with him this year. He's a good QB and I think he has the stuff to be great.

summerdenver

01-14-2008, 02:55 AM

Ok, show me some wins. Show me 20 points a game average. Anubis and Apa can get on me a little bit for stirring up some sh*t, but the bottom line is scoring TD's. Show me a diverse passing game, I'm tired of seeing the only completions are slants and down and outs. Denver has to work the middle of the field passing, and Shanny won't let Cutler do that for a reason - Cutler throws all his INT's in the middle of the field. Cutler has to attack that problem and solve it. Cutler gets rid of the ball way to fast many times when he has a good pocket. He gets antsy and I don't like that. He's not calm in the pocket.

I agree with your basic premise that Cutler needs to get better but you are exagerating a bit when you say cutler doesn't have 'it'. His biggest problem is inexperience and has only palyed around 20 games. In my opinion he has shown lot of promise this year - Not many rookies complete 65% of passes with 7.5 YPA especially with all the injuries. It is very encouraging that he seems to be a hard worker and wants to get better.

To answer you question about wins, Cutler played very well against Pit, GB and Ten. On the last minute game winning and tying drives against GB and PIT, they knew we were going to pass but they could not stop us.

Pontius Pirate

01-14-2008, 12:57 PM

for you too even make the comparison with a QB in his second year is not only moronic but ignorant on your part. When Jay has gotten 8 more years under his belt you can jerk off all you want too about how great Jake was. Until then, its a dumb comparison.

That's assuming Jay lasts 10 years, which given the average tenure of a NFL QB, is highly unlikely. So, comparing their 2nd years is actually quite a good idea, so thanks for that suggestion.

Jake's 2nd year: 16 games, 59% comp., 3700 yds, 17 TD vs. 20 INT, sacked 49 times, 75.0 rating. Also, 217 yds rushing, 4 TD's, 12 fumbles (5 lost). AND a playoff win vs. the Cowboys

Jay's 2nd year: 16 games, 63% comp., 3500 yds, 20 TD vs 14 INT, sacked 27 times, 88.1 rating. Also, 205 yds rushing, 1 TD, 11 fumbles (4 lost). AND no playoffs.

If you remember anything about the 1998 Cards, you'll realize that Jake did way more with nothing than what Jay did in his 2nd year. Getting sacked 49 times vs. 27 times and he still put up relatively the same numbers as Jay??? I'd take Jake's 2nd year over Jay's any day of the week.

broncosteven

01-14-2008, 01:51 PM

summerdenver

01-14-2008, 02:20 PM

That's assuming Jay lasts 10 years, which given the average tenure of a NFL QB, is highly unlikely. So, comparing their 2nd years is actually quite a good idea, so thanks for that suggestion.

Jake's 2nd year: 16 games, 59% comp., 3700 yds, 17 TD vs. 20 INT, sacked 49 times, 75.0 rating. Also, 217 yds rushing, 4 TD's, 12 fumbles (5 lost). AND a playoff win vs. the Cowboys

Jay's 2nd year: 16 games, 63% comp., 3500 yds, 20 TD vs 14 INT, sacked 27 times, 88.1 rating. Also, 205 yds rushing, 1 TD, 11 fumbles (4 lost). AND no playoffs.

If you remember anything about the 1998 Cards, you'll realize that Jake did way more with nothing than what Jay did in his 2nd year. Getting sacked 49 times vs. 27 times and he still put up relatively the same numbers as Jay??? I'd take Jake's 2nd year over Jay's any day of the week.

This is a very interesting take. I do not want to argue about who got more with less as I have not seen cardinals play but my feeling is that Jake was tremendous talent when he came to the league. If i remember correctly Bill walsh compared him to Montana and predicted great things for him. IMO two things hurt Jake's career.

i) Cardinals were a really bad organization when he played for them. If SF followed Walsh's advice and drafted Jake, I am sure his career would have been very different - with mooch as his coach.

ii) Jake is unconventional and he obviously had lot of other interests than just football. I like Jake and respect him for that but unfortunately in todays nfl, that makes it hard to compete with QBs like Peyton and Brady who spend so much time preparing unless you have a great sorrounding cast. I have no doubt that if Jake had concentrated more on football and was with a better organization all his career he would have been a very successfult QB probably borderline elite.

Coming to Cutler, FootballOutsiders did peice for espn comparing Cutler's statistics and not surprisingly most similar QB to Cutler is Favre. Infact they said the same thing when did their QB prediction of cutler, young and leinhart. Even though FO uses purely statistics, it is an interesting read. Link enclosed.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3113875

Some quotes i like from this article:

It is hard to find players similar to Cutler because young quarterbacks don't often complete such a high percentage of their passes. The similar players are generally players with similar totals, but either more attempts or fewer completions.

Since Cutler played just five games as a rookie, perhaps we'll learn more by only looking at our 2007 projection. When we look only at quarterbacks in their second years, without considering what they did in their first, the most similar quarterback is ... come on, you all know this is coming ... Brett Favre.