Soldier talks about honor

[Taco John]

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[cutthemdown]

pretty powerful stuff.

[Meck77]

Yes it is.

[Spider]

El-Rushbo would refer to this guy as a "Phony Soldier" ........ But man this guy is saying the exact same thing us on the left have been saying for years

[missingnumber7]

pretty powerful stuff.

This guy, kid, punk, is a joke. I'm going to put a powerful wager that he is probably a lower enlisted soldier that enlisted after 9/11. Who got a rather large bonus for joining and lots of money for college. He also is part of what is making the military stereo type bad. But enough ripping on a fellow soldier.

My opinion on what he had to say. He points out several things that are serious truths. 1. Contractors in Iraq are lazy. 2. Soldiers are lessor citizens on many bases in Iraq than contractors. 3. A contractor who sits and ensures that an Iraqi or other hired foreigner cleans up some mess makes more than an E-4 who beats his butt down to carry out the mission. Shoot that same contractor makes more than me and I'm an O-2. In fact the other day I was told that we are running the equipment into the ground and it needs to be looked at by the "Mantech" mechanics however we have an entire platoon of mechanics that are just as qualified. I was also told that I was being irresponsible by taking this equipment out and that the missions can wait, I told the man(who was younger than I was and told me he was making 120000 for a year cash not counting tax free, free room, free food, free health care) that he can tell this "crap"(I used a different colorful military word) to my brigade commander a full bird colonel. I am responsible for ensuring that the road is clear of IED's so your fat ass can have the Taco Bell and Popeyes chicken that you need.

He also inserts several of his opinions as fact. 1. Soldiers don't want to be there. 2. We are killing Iraqi's not Terrorists. 3. He refuses to acknowledge that ANY soldier believes in the cause. He also seems to not understand the correlation between staying and fighting with honor until the country can take over and the way we ran away from Vietnam. I know that would be alot for a lower enlisted ethnic soldier to think about.

My opinions: I agree with why we are here. I believe that AMERICAN SOLDIERS are improving this country. I also see every day that the Iraqis are taking more and more responsibility for their own country. I see a country that is trying to give us a reason to leave, they see that we want them to succeed and become an independent entity and that we do not want to become another terrorist state and if they do become that they have seen what is happening in Afghanistan.

My hard questions for politicians: If Iraq is such a big deal, why are we still in Bosnia, Kosovo, Germany, England, and Japan? Every year there are National Guard soldiers that are deployed away from their families to spend a year in Kosovo to help with the demining process. I don't understand why it is still necessary. It isn't something the republicans did...thank Bill Clinton for that one.

My response to the video: An attention grabbing move at one particular comment. I am not huge into politics, probably a bad thing for a military officer, but that is not my big thing. I don't know much about Ron Paul, sorry Taco. I have to say right now if someone wants to know who I'm voting for, John McCain has my vote. The dude was a POW for 6 years. The man understands what soldiers are going through. This election in the end will be won by promises made to the military community. There are over 1 million votes for sale.

I have lots more that I could share, but I try to stay away from this thread because I don't come here to debate politics, I come here to talk football.

Oh and my credentials...I am a platoon leader of a sapper company. I am responsible for more than 20 soldiers well being and planning the missions that we do daily. We are responsible for getting rid of IED's(which have diminished considerably on our route). This is my second deployment. I joined the Army National Guard BEFORE 9/11. I joined to get money to help pay for my college.

[Kaylore]

Thanks MN7. That's pretty cool to get your perspective. Rep.

[Taco John]

I don't know much about Ron Paul, sorry Taco.

No problem. They're doing their best to keep him out of the spotlight, but people like me are continuing to fight to keep him relevant. He's currently polling in third place at 14% in New Hampshire and the NH GOP just dropped their sponsorship of the Fox forum this weekend because they unilaterally decided that they didn't want his opinion in the debate.

You raised an issue:

My hard questions for politicians: If Iraq is such a big deal, why are we still in Bosnia, Kosovo, Germany, England, and Japan? Every year there are National Guard soldiers that are deployed away from their families to spend a year in Kosovo to help with the demining process. I don't understand why it is still necessary. It isn't something the republicans did...thank Bill Clinton for that one.


It's funny you should mention this, because this is one of Ron Paul's top issues. They slander him as an "isolationist" because he says that we no longer need bases in Japan, Germany and other cold war deployments. His plan is to close our engagements, fortify our defense at home, revamp the immigration system and secure the border, and use the trillions in savings to pay down the national debt and fix the social security mess we're in right now -- and especially focus on the economy.

I'm supposed to believe that he's got no chance... and maybe they're right. But when you look at the race, no pro-war republican has a chance to win right now. Obama is starting to run away with this thing in a serious way (http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/new_hampshire/election_2008_new_hampshire_democratic_primary). Independents are coming out for him in droves. The only Republican candidate who is able to compete for Independents against Obama based on the Iowa results (and we'll see the same trend in New Hampshire) is Ron Paul.

So anyone who says Ron Paul doesn't have a chance better not be backing another Republican, because the same thing can be said for their candidate. My candidate has just a good a shot as any other Republican in this race, if not better. At some point in time, enough Republicans might realize that judges are at stake and figure that being pro-war for Iraq isn't worth sacrificing two or three judges to Obama.

[orinjkrush]

our national security and our national interests derive mostly from our economic way of life. much more so than our democratic principles.
this war is mostly about economics.

it is one of the least discussed travesties: where did the money go?
We had a record surplus when Bush came to town. now it is gone.
Where did the money go?

Our troops militarily won the war. The war actually ended when we captured Saddam. Mission accomplished.

But then, something happened. The "goodnicks" or the "profiteers" or both convinced the powerbrokers that we needed to build it back. Building Iraq up in our image should have been the responsibility of the State Department and the Peace Corps, not the Defense Department and the Marine Corps, if the US had to shoulder that at all.

Our Army and Marine Corps are about broken. Deployment wise. Equipment wise. Munitions and spares wise. Our National Guard is largely unavailable for emergencies back home.

Whose face are we saving? It certainly isn't the troops: we kicked their collective asses like it was a Playstation game.

Maybe the only faces we are saving are the idiots who decided to rebuild Iraq in our image, so they can go on with their cushy political lives. Cushy, because, guess what? That's where the money went.

[cutthemdown]

I have to agree that this soldier seems to be upset about more then just why we are in Iraq. He also mistakingly confuses leaving with honor, to fighting for honor. We didn't go to Iraq and Afghanistan for honor, we went to kill the enemy.

I'm no soldier so I think I have to respect what he says but I don't believe this soldier has enough information to speak for all the soldiers.

I personally know 2 gung ho soldiers who did tours in the first gulf war, and this war in Iraq. The only thing they complained about was not finishing the job the first time they were there.

[Spider]

still trying to combine Afghanistan and Iraq ........ you know what, perhaps they are connected , the pipe line in Afhganistan and the oil in Iraq ....
The good the troops are doing is the product of less then honrable intentions ........ we went for the oil , we stay to save investments ........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

El-Rushbo would refer to this guy as a "Phony Soldier" ........ But man this guy is saying the exact same thing us on the left have been saying for years

Yep.

And when we tried to warn them about the folly of invading Iraq, we were castigated as "traitors" and "America haters" by the BushCo Kool-Aid guzzlers.

[baja]

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Thanks so much for posting this and other insights.

Course Dave would tell you this is just a disgruntled soldier there is no conspiracy to deceive the American people by the industrial military complex to make billions while whittling down the population some, every little bit helps to achieve goal of a 1/3 reduction ya know.

[Rohirrim]

He also seems to not understand the correlation between staying and fighting with honor until the country can take over and the way we ran away from Vietnam. I know that would be alot for a lower enlisted ethnic soldier to think about.



You, sir, are a POS.

[TheDave]

Thanks so much for posting this and other insights.

Course Dave would tell you this is just a disgruntled soldier there is no conspiracy to deceive the American people by the industrial military complex to make billions while whittling down the population some, every little bit helps to achieve goal of a 1/3 reduction ya know.

yeah... that sounds just like me. ::)

[SoCalBronco]

You, sir, are a POS.

I half agree with you.

Not however for stating his opinion on the conflict.

For that, he has the right to say what he wants. He's also a soldier. He's also over there. You might not agree with his views, but I don't see people disagreeing with the other soldier's views calling that person a POS. I do agree though that the ethnic comment was completely unnecessary and bigoted, but for his view on the conflict itself, he shouldnt be called a POS, the latter however, as I said, I would agree with you on...... that (the comment about ethnicity) was very much unbecoming of a soldier, missingnumber7.

[baja]

yeah... that sounds just like me. ::)

Sorry Dave that was a low blow, guess I'm miffed that you, a guy I respect, can not see that there are people like the Bilderburg group that would like to have a lot more control over the rest of us, for our own good of course,

[Rohirrim]

For stating his opinion?

He's also a soldier. He's also over there. You might not agree with his views, but I don't see people disagreeing with the other soldier's views calling that person a POS. So much for the tolerance and respectfulness of the diversity of viewpoints that the Left purports to hold dear. I do agree though that the ethnic comment was completely unnecessary.

Come on Roh.

No soldier "ran away" in Vietnam. American forces in Vietnam never lost a single battle with the enemy. Not one single battle. This guy is talking through his ass and insulting all those who served in Vietnam. His second statement, I know that would be alot for a lower enlisted ethnic soldier to think about is not only the kind of snotty superiority one can expect from the lesser graduates of OCS, it is blatantly racist and I'm surprised you would support it, SoCal.

[SoCalBronco]

No soldier "ran away" in Vietnam. American forces in Vietnam never lost a single battle with the enemy. Not one single battle. This guy is talking through his ass and insulting all those who served in Vietnam. His second statement, I know that would be alot for a lower enlisted ethnic soldier to think about is not only the kind of snotty superiority one can expect from the lesser graduates of OCS, it is blatantly racist and I'm surprised you would support it, SoCal.

I don't support it, I looked again and saw that comment at the bottom and edited my post (you got me in the middle of two edits), I was referring (above) to his view on Vietnam/this conflict et al. and why people with different views shouldnt be called POS, but I didnt see that latter thing until now, I definitely agree with you on that, it was very unbecoming of him to say, especially as a soldier, as you can see above.

[TheDave]

Sorry Dave that was a low blow, guess I'm miffed that you, a guy I respect, can not see that there are people like the Bilderburg group that would like to have a lot more control over the rest of us, for our own good of course,

I know... It's all good. Like I said we just see some parts of the world from very different angles... But the Iraq war is certainly not one of them.

[cutthemdown]

So if a soldier says what you guys want to hear you love it, but when one says things you don't want to hear he is a piece of ****?

I'm really starting to understand most of you a lot better.

[Rohirrim]

So if a soldier says what you guys want to hear you love it, but when one says things you don't want to hear he is a piece of ****?

I'm really starting to understand most of you a lot better.

We really need a smilie for when something goes way over somebody's head.

[baja]

We really need a smilie for when something goes way over somebody's head.

How about a big red brick?

[cutthemdown]

We really need a smilie for when something goes way over somebody's head.

Just use a picture of you

[baja]

Just use a picture of you

You know I'm trying to be tolerant with you but you do can't even figure out when you have been had.

[cutthemdown]

You know I'm trying to be tolerant with you but you do can't even figure out when you have been had.

You are truly benevolent your Bajaness. Your digressing is truly an inspiration to us all.

[baja]

I know you do not see it but you do miss a lot. JMO

[baja]

And I'm not digressing just making an observation but you reading into the post that I'm digressing is a good example of what I'm commenting on.

[Cito Pelon]

This guy, kid, punk, is a joke. I'm going to put a powerful wager that he is probably a lower enlisted soldier that enlisted after 9/11. Who got a rather large bonus for joining and lots of money for college. He also is part of what is making the military stereo type bad. But enough ripping on a fellow soldier.

My opinion on what he had to say. He points out several things that are serious truths. 1. Contractors in Iraq are lazy. 2. Soldiers are lessor citizens on many bases in Iraq than contractors. 3. A contractor who sits and ensures that an Iraqi or other hired foreigner cleans up some mess makes more than an E-4 who beats his butt down to carry out the mission. Shoot that same contractor makes more than me and I'm an O-2. In fact the other day I was told that we are running the equipment into the ground and it needs to be looked at by the "Mantech" mechanics however we have an entire platoon of mechanics that are just as qualified. I was also told that I was being irresponsible by taking this equipment out and that the missions can wait, I told the man(who was younger than I was and told me he was making 120000 for a year cash not counting tax free, free room, free food, free health care) that he can tell this "crap"(I used a different colorful military word) to my brigade commander a full bird colonel. I am responsible for ensuring that the road is clear of IED's so your fat ass can have the Taco Bell and Popeyes chicken that you need.

He also inserts several of his opinions as fact. 1. Soldiers don't want to be there. 2. We are killing Iraqi's not Terrorists. 3. He refuses to acknowledge that ANY soldier believes in the cause. He also seems to not understand the correlation between staying and fighting with honor until the country can take over and the way we ran away from Vietnam. I know that would be alot for a lower enlisted ethnic soldier to think about.

My opinions: I agree with why we are here. I believe that AMERICAN SOLDIERS are improving this country. I also see every day that the Iraqis are taking more and more responsibility for their own country. I see a country that is trying to give us a reason to leave, they see that we want them to succeed and become an independent entity and that we do not want to become another terrorist state and if they do become that they have seen what is happening in Afghanistan.

My hard questions for politicians: If Iraq is such a big deal, why are we still in Bosnia, Kosovo, Germany, England, and Japan? Every year there are National Guard soldiers that are deployed away from their families to spend a year in Kosovo to help with the demining process. I don't understand why it is still necessary. It isn't something the republicans did...thank Bill Clinton for that one.

My response to the video: An attention grabbing move at one particular comment. I am not huge into politics, probably a bad thing for a military officer, but that is not my big thing. I don't know much about Ron Paul, sorry Taco. I have to say right now if someone wants to know who I'm voting for, John McCain has my vote. The dude was a POW for 6 years. The man understands what soldiers are going through. This election in the end will be won by promises made to the military community. There are over 1 million votes for sale.

I have lots more that I could share, but I try to stay away from this thread because I don't come here to debate politics, I come here to talk football.

Oh and my credentials...I am a platoon leader of a sapper company. I am responsible for more than 20 soldiers well being and planning the missions that we do daily. We are responsible for getting rid of IED's(which have diminished considerably on our route). This is my second deployment. I joined the Army National Guard BEFORE 9/11. I joined to get money to help pay for my college.

Ya know, I was trying to pick your post apart for inaccuracies, and I didn't find any. Forgive me, I'm skeptical. Nice post. I was a soldier in the former West Germany during the Cold War, and the contractors were the same then. Back then the contractors were the same. I caught one German contractor tapping the frame one time with a handset (I was Signal Corps). Nobody believed me, I was the gotdang pariah. Herr Bomann had been working that station for twenty years, was tremendously respected. Nobody even called him by his first name, it was always "Herr Bomann". So I set him up with the collusion of a couple trick chiefs I worked with that trusted me. It took six months for me to get these trick chiefs to set him up, but we nailed him. Turned out his daughter was in East Germany, and the Stasi had been working him. Turned out this German contractor had compromised all kinds of stuff.

The American contractors were a huge pain in the ass. As you said, they figured they were God's gift to us enlisted men. We had several that brought in some new high speed data equipment that would hang around all the time. They would comment on military matters, and we enlisted didn't like that too much. They were civilians, they didn't have any business injecting their opinions into our tricks. We ambushed the most vocal of them one time outside the station where there were no lights, and they ran scared after that. That was also with the collusion of NCO's. The officers, and I guess you're an officer, didn't mind. We enlisted took care of the problem. So you as an officer look the other way sometimes, eh?

[missingnumber7]

I half agree with you.

Not however for stating his opinion on the conflict.

For that, he has the right to say what he wants. He's also a soldier. He's also over there. You might not agree with his views, but I don't see people disagreeing with the other soldier's views calling that person a POS. I do agree though that the ethnic comment was completely unnecessary and bigoted, but for his view on the conflict itself, he shouldnt be called a POS, the latter however, as I said, I would agree with you on...... that (the comment about ethnicity) was very much unbecoming of a soldier, missingnumber7.

The comment about many soldiers being of ethnic minority being narrow minded. I speak of what I see. I get racially profiled on a daily basis. I am in effect a minority in Iraq. There are a large majority of soldiers who are of other ethinic backgrounds. But much of the emphasis of these kids are on having fun and not seeming to think that the rank and file, IE chain of command, applies to them. It also seems to be beyond many soldiers to follow regulations that are set before them. Maybe I was a little out of line with my comments, however, many soldiers over here fail to look at the significance of actions out side of post 9/11. And that is where my comments come from. I think that todays army is historically limited in view. I apologize to any my comments have offended.

[missingnumber7]

No soldier "ran away" in Vietnam. American forces in Vietnam never lost a single battle with the enemy. Not one single battle. This guy is talking through his ass and insulting all those who served in Vietnam. His second statement, I know that would be alot for a lower enlisted ethnic soldier to think about is not only the kind of snotty superiority one can expect from the lesser graduates of OCS, it is blatantly racist and I'm surprised you would support it, SoCal.

If you would have read the comment as a whole I said nothing about a particular soldier running away from Vietnam. I was refering to the way the country gave up and left Vietnam to be overrun by communists. I was refering to how we said we would help them and then pulled out and left millions to be raped and slaughtered. I know we never lost a battle in vietnam. I am very proud of family and friends who fought. I am in no way insulting a soldier for the democratic decisions made by unconnected politicians halfway around the world.

As far as my opinion being founded by OCS...and it being some sort of lesser commissioning system. I may not sit through 4 years of brainwashing, but the snotty superiority complex comes from the point of whose graduates are refered to as ring knockers.