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darnik44
01-02-2008, 01:02 AM
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/darnik44/DRAFT-SCOUT.jpg

+order pending coin toss
*Underclassmen

First Round

01 Miami Dolphins (1-15) - Darren McFadden, HB, Arkansas*

02 St. Louis Rams (3-13) - Glenn Dorsey, DT/NT LSU

03 +Atlanta Falcons (4-12) - Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College

04 +Oakland Raiders (4-12) - Chris Long, DE, Virginia

05 +Kansas City Chiefs (4-12) Jake Long, OT, Michigan

06 New York Jets (4-12) - Vernon Gholston, DE/OLB, Ohio State*

07 New England Patriots (from SF (5-11)) - Rey Maualuga, ILB.OLB, USC*

08 Baltimore Ravens (5-11) - Malcolm Jenkins, CB/S, Ohio State*

09 Cincinnatti Bengals (7-9) Keith Rivers, OLB, USC

10 New Orleans Saints (7-9) - Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona

11 Buffalo Bills (7-9) - Mario Manningham, WR, Michigan*

12 Denver Broncos (7-9) - Sedrick Ellis, DT, USC

13 Carolina Panthers (7-9) - Kenny Phillips, S, Miami*

14 Chicago Bears (7-9) - Brian Brohm, QB, Louisville

15 Detroit Lions (7-9) - Sam Baker, OT, USC

16 Arizona Cardinals (8-8) - Jonathan Stewert, HB. Oregon*

17 Minnesota Vikings (8-8) - Andre Woodson, QB, Kentucky

18 Houston Texans (8-8) - Rashard Mendenhall, HB, Illinois*

19 Philadelphia Eagles (8-8) - DeSean Jackson, WR/KR, California*

20 Dallas Cowboys (from CLE (10-6)) - Mike Jenkins, CB/KR, South Florida

21 Washington Redskins (9-7) Calais Campbell, DE, Miami*

22 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (9-7) - Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma*

23 Tennessee Titans (10-6) - James Laurinaitis, ILB/OLB, Ohio State*

24 Seattle Seahawks (10-6) - Felix Jones, HB/KR, Arkansas*

25 Pittsburgh Steelers (10-6) Jeff Otah, OT, Pittsburgh

26 New York Giants (10-6) - Victor Harris, CB/S, Virginia Tech*

27 San Diego Chargers (11-5) - Dan Connor, ILB/OLB, Penn State

28 Jacksonville Jaguars (11-5) - Chris Ellis, DE/OLB, Virginia Tech

29 Green Bay Packers (13-3) - Martin Rucker, TE, Missouri

30 San Francisco (from IND (13-3)) DeMario Pressley, DT/DE, N.C. State

31 Dallas Cowboys (13-3) - Terrill Byrd, DT/NT, Cincinnati*

32 New England Patriots (16-0) - FORFEIT


Second Round

33 Miami Dolphins (1-15) - Ryan Clady, OT, Boise State*

34 St. Louis Rams (3-13) - Shawn Crable, OLB/DE, Michigan

35 New York Jets (4-12) - DeJuan Tribble, CB/KR, Boston College

36 +Atlanta Falcons (4-12) - Barry Richardson, OT, Clemson

37 +Oakland Raiders (4-12) - Early Doucet, WR, LSU

38 +Kansas City Chiefs (4-12) Reggie Smith, S/CB, Oklahoma*

39 Baltimore Ravens (5-11) - Kentwan Balmer, DT/DE, North Carolina

40 San Francisco 49ers (5-11) - Colt Brennan QB, Hawaii

41 Detroit Lions (7-9) - Aqib Talib, CB/KR, Kansas*

42 Cincinnatti Bengals (7-9) Lawrence Jackson, DE, USC

43 New Orleans Saints (7-9) - Quentin Groves, OLB/DE, Auburn

44 Buffalo Bills (7-9) - Chevis Jackson, CB, LSU

45 Denver Broncos (7-9) - Curtis Lofton, ILB, Oklahoma*

46 Carolina Panthers (7-9) - Jonathan Goff, ILB, Vanderbilt

47 Chicago Bears (7-9) - James Hardy, WR, Indiana*

48 Philadelphia Eagles (8-8) - Limas Sweed, WR, Texas

49 Arizona Cardinals (8-8) - Leodis McKelvin, CB/KR, Troy

50 Minnesota Vikings (8-8) - Jack Ikegwuonu, CB, Wisconsin*

51 Atlanta Falcons (from HOU (8-8)) - Dre Moore, DT/DE, Maryland

52 Cleveland Browns (10-6) - Chris Johnson, HB/KR, East Carolina

53 Washington Redskins (9-7) Adarius Bowman, WR, Oklahoma State

54 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (9-7) - Frank Okam, DT/NT Texas

55 Tennessee Titans (10-6) - Fred Davis, TE, USC

56 Seattle Seahawks (10-6) - Roy Schuening, OG/OT, Oregon State

57 Pittsburgh Steelers (10-6) Devin Thomas, WR/KR, Michigan State*

58 New York Giants (10-6) - Ray Rice, HB, Rutgers*

59 Miami Dolphins (from SD (11-5)) - Lavelle Hawkins, WR, California

60 Jacksonville Jaguars (11-5) - Erin Henderson, ILB/OLB, Maryland*

61 Green Bay Packers (13-3) - Brandon Flowers, CB, Virginia Tech*

62 Indianapolis Colts (13-3) - Xavier Adibi, OLB, Virginia Tech

63 Dallas Cowboys (13-3) - Harry Douglas, WR, Louisville

64 New England Patriots (16-0) - Bruce Davis, OLB/DE, UCLA


Third Round

65 Miami Dolphins (1-15) - Alex Boone, OT, Ohio State*

66 St. Louis Rams (3-13) - Joe Flacco, QB, Delaware

67 +New England Patriots (from OAK (4-12)) - Vince Hall, ILB, Virginia Tech

68 +Kansas City Chiefs (4-12) Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt

69 New York Jets (4-12) - Eric Young, OG/OT, Tennessee

70 +Atlanta Falcons (4-12) - Tony Hills, OT, Texas

71 San Francisco 49ers (5-11) - Dorien Bryant, WR/KR, Purdue

72 Buffalo Bills (from BAL (5-11)) - Geno Hayes, OLB, Florida State*

73 Chicago Bears (7-9) - Marcus Griffin, S, Texas

74 Detroit Lions (7-9) - Ali Highsmith, OLB, LSU

75 Cincinnatti Bengals (7-9) Beau Bell, OLB/ILB, UNLV

76 New Orleans Saints (7-9) - Anthony Collins, OT, Kansas

77 Buffalo Bills (7-9) - Cornelius Ingram TE, Florida*

78 Minnesota Vikings (from DEN (7-9)) - Gosder Cherilus, OT, Boston College

79 Carolina Panthers (7-9) - Dennis Dixon, QB, Oregon

80 Houston Texans (8-8) - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB, Tennessee State

81 Philadelphia Eagles (8-8) - Craig Steltz, S, LSU

82 Arizona Cardinals (8-8) - Cliff Avril, OLB/DE, Purdue

83 Minnesota Vikings (8-8) - Titus Brown, DE, Mississippi State

84 Cleveland Browns (10-6) - Marcus Harrison, DT, Arkansas

85 Washington Redskins (9-7) Philip Wheeler, ILB/OLB, Georiga Tech

86 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (9-7) - John David Booty, QB, USC

87 Tennessee Titans (10-6) - Davone Bess, WR, Hawaii*

88 Seattle Seahawks (10-6) - Tom Zbikowski, S/KR, Notre Dame

89 Pittsburgh Steelers (10-6) Adam Speiker, C, Missouri

90 New York Giants (10-6) - Jeremy Perry, OG, Oregon State

91 Chicago Bears (from SD (11-5)) - Tashard Choice, HB, Georgia Tech

92 Jacksonville Jaguars (11-5) - Dwight Lowry, CB, San Jose State

93 Green Bay Packers (13-3) - Mike Hart, HB, Michigan

94 Indianapolis Colts (13-3) - Javon Ringer, HB, Michigan State*

95 Dallas Cowboys (13-3) - Ezra Butler, ILB, Nevada

96 New England Patriots (16-0) - Jacob Hester, FB/RB, LSU

Best Players Available


Steve Johnson, WR, Kentucky
Jordy Nelson, WR, Kansas State
Thomas DeCoud, S, California
Matt Forte, HB, Tulane
Chad Henne, QB, Michigan
John Carlson, TE, Notre Dame
Ben Moffitt, ILB, South Florida
Tavares Gooden, ILB, Miami
Jonal Saint-Dic, DE, Michigan State
D.J. Hall, WR, Alabama
Tyson Jackson, DE, Louisiana State*
Patrick Lee, CB, Auburn
Erik Ainge, QB, Tennessee
Darry Beckwith, ILB, Louisiana State*
Donnie Avery, WR/KR, Houston
Dennis Keyes, S, UCLA
James Mcclinton, DT, Kansas
Duane Brown, OG/OT, Virginia Tech
Kendall Langford, DE, Hampton
Louis Holmes, DE/OLB, Arizona
Steve Justice, C, Wake Forest
Peyton Hillis, FB/RB, Arkansas
Chris Horton, S, UCLA
Mike Mickens, CB, Cincinnatti*
Lionel Dotson, DT, Arizona
Quintin Demps, S, Texas-El Paso
Dantrell Savage, HB, Oklahoma State*
Kirk Barton, OT, Ohio State
Allen Patrick, HB, Oklahoma*
Maurice Crum, ILB, Notre Dame
Tony Temple, HB, Missouri*
Jamie Silva, S, Boston College


Noteable Underclassmen Returning to School

Phil Loadholt, OT, Oklahoma
Kevin Smith, HB, Central Florida*
Michael Oher OT/OG, Mississippi*
Fili Moala, DT, Southern California*
Jamaal Charles, HB, Texas*
Darius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland*
Jasper Brinkley, ILB, South Carolina*
Duke Robinson, OG, Oklahoma*
Steve Slaton, HB, West Virginia*
Brian Cushing, OLB, Southern California*
Sean Lee, OLB, Penn State*
William Moore, S, Missouri*
Phillip Merling, DE, Clemson*
Justin King, CB/KR, Penn State*
Courtney Greene, S, Rutgers*
Nic Harris, S, Oklahoma*
Derrick Harvey, DE/OLB, Florida*
Terrence Taylor, DT/NT Michigan*
Martellus Bennett, TE, Texas A&M*
Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State*
Earl Bennett, WR, Vanderbilt*
Javorskie Lane, FB/RB, Texas A&M*

Rohirrim
01-02-2008, 01:04 AM
If the Patriots walk away with Maualuga, I'll shoot my dog.

Elway777
01-02-2008, 11:43 AM
I love the Bronco draft of Ellis and Lofton plus the Broncos could also trade Foxworth for a early 3 rounder and get Either Chis Williams or Tony Hills.The 4 round the Broncos add Avery and Barton . I think the Broncos go after Gross in free agentcy with Barton playing right guard .

Elway777
01-02-2008, 11:45 AM
If the Patriots walk away with Maualuga, I'll shoot my dog. The Bronco get Ellis and Ellis is the one who open up the rush lanes allowing Maualauga to get 3 sacks in the Rose bowl.

Rohirrim
01-02-2008, 01:24 PM
I was reading one Trojan site last night that reports that Rey intends to return for his senior year.

skpac1001
01-02-2008, 01:28 PM
I love the Bronco draft of Ellis and Lofton plus the Broncos could also trade Foxworth for a early 3 rounder and get Either Chis Williams or Tony Hills.The 4 round the Broncos add Avery and Barton . I think the Broncos go after Gross in free agentcy with Barton playing right guard .

If we get Chris Williams in the 3rd I will bring Rohirrim's dog back to life.

lex
01-02-2008, 01:31 PM
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/darnik44/DRAFT-SCOUT.jpg

+order pending coin toss
*Underclassmen

First Round

01 Miami Dolphins (1-15) - Darren McFadden, HB, Arkansas*

02 St. Louis Rams (3-13) - Glenn Dorsey, DT/NT LSU

03 +Atlanta Falcons (4-12) - Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College

04 +Oakland Raiders (4-12) - Chris Long, DE, Virginia

05 +Kansas City Chiefs (4-12) Jake Long, OT, Michigan

06 New York Jets (4-12) - Vernon Gholston, DE/OLB, Ohio State*

07 New England Patriots (from SF (5-11)) - Rey Maualuga, ILB.OLB, USC*

08 Baltimore Ravens (5-11) - Malcolm Jenkins, CB/S, Ohio State*

09 Cincinnatti Bengals (7-9) Keith Rivers, OLB, USC

10 New Orleans Saints (7-9) - Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona

11 Buffalo Bills (7-9) - Mario Manningham, WR, Michigan*

12 Denver Broncos (7-9) - Sedrick Ellis, DT, USC

13 Carolina Panthers (7-9) - Kenny Phillips, S, Miami*

14 Chicago Bears (7-9) - Brian Brohm, QB, Louisville

15 Detroit Lions (7-9) - Sam Baker, OT, USC

16 Arizona Cardinals (8-8) - Jonathan Stewert, HB. Oregon*

17 Minnesota Vikings (8-8) - Andre Woodson, QB, Kentucky

18 Houston Texans (8-8) - Rashard Mendenhall, HB, Illinois*

19 Philadelphia Eagles (8-8) - DeSean Jackson, WR/KR, California*

20 Dallas Cowboys (from CLE (10-6)) - Mike Jenkins, CB/KR, South Florida

21 Washington Redskins (9-7) Calais Campbell, DE, Miami*

22 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (9-7) - Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma*

23 Tennessee Titans (10-6) - James Laurinaitis, ILB/OLB, Ohio State*

24 Seattle Seahawks (10-6) - Felix Jones, HB/KR, Arkansas*

25 Pittsburgh Steelers (10-6) Jeff Otah, OT, Pittsburgh

26 New York Giants (10-6) - Victor Harris, CB/S, Virginia Tech*

27 San Diego Chargers (11-5) - Dan Connor, ILB/OLB, Penn State

28 Jacksonville Jaguars (11-5) - Chris Ellis, DE/OLB, Virginia Tech

29 Green Bay Packers (13-3) - Martin Rucker, TE, Missouri

30 San Francisco (from IND (13-3)) DeMario Pressley, DT/DE, N.C. State

31 Dallas Cowboys (13-3) - Terrill Byrd, DT/NT, Cincinnati*

32 New England Patriots (16-0) - FORFEIT


Second Round

33 Miami Dolphins (1-15) - Ryan Clady, OT, Boise State*

34 St. Louis Rams (3-13) - Shawn Crable, OLB/DE, Michigan

35 New York Jets (4-12) - DeJuan Tribble, CB/KR, Boston College

36 +Atlanta Falcons (4-12) - Barry Richardson, OT, Clemson

37 +Oakland Raiders (4-12) - Early Doucet, WR, LSU

38 +Kansas City Chiefs (4-12) Reggie Smith, S/CB, Oklahoma*

39 Baltimore Ravens (5-11) - Kentwan Balmer, DT/DE, North Carolina

40 San Francisco 49ers (5-11) - Colt Brennan QB, Hawaii

41 Detroit Lions (7-9) - Aqib Talib, CB/KR, Kansas*

42 Cincinnatti Bengals (7-9) Lawrence Jackson, DE, USC

43 New Orleans Saints (7-9) - Quentin Groves, OLB/DE, Auburn

44 Buffalo Bills (7-9) - Chevis Jackson, CB, LSU

45 Denver Broncos (7-9) - Curtis Lofton, ILB, Oklahoma*

46 Carolina Panthers (7-9) - Jonathan Goff, ILB, Vanderbilt

47 Chicago Bears (7-9) - James Hardy, WR, Indiana*

48 Philadelphia Eagles (8-8) - Limas Sweed, WR, Texas

49 Arizona Cardinals (8-8) - Leodis McKelvin, CB/KR, Troy

50 Minnesota Vikings (8-8) - Jack Ikegwuonu, CB, Wisconsin*

51 Atlanta Falcons (from HOU (8-8)) - Dre Moore, DT/DE, Maryland

52 Cleveland Browns (10-6) - Chris Johnson, HB/KR, East Carolina

53 Washington Redskins (9-7) Adarius Bowman, WR, Oklahoma State

54 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (9-7) - Frank Okam, DT/NT Texas

55 Tennessee Titans (10-6) - Fred Davis, TE, USC

56 Seattle Seahawks (10-6) - Roy Schuening, OG/OT, Oregon State

57 Pittsburgh Steelers (10-6) Devin Thomas, WR/KR, Michigan State*

58 New York Giants (10-6) - Ray Rice, HB, Rutgers*

59 Miami Dolphins (from SD (11-5)) - Lavelle Hawkins, WR, California

60 Jacksonville Jaguars (11-5) - Erin Henderson, ILB/OLB, Maryland*

61 Green Bay Packers (13-3) - Brandon Flowers, CB, Virginia Tech*

62 Indianapolis Colts (13-3) - Xavier Adibi, OLB, Virginia Tech

63 Dallas Cowboys (13-3) - Harry Douglas, WR, Louisville

64 New England Patriots (16-0) - Bruce Davis, OLB/DE, UCLA


Third Round

65 Miami Dolphins (1-15) - Alex Boone, OT, Ohio State*

66 St. Louis Rams (3-13) - Joe Flacco, QB, Delaware

67 +New England Patriots (from OAK (4-12)) - Vince Hall, ILB, Virginia Tech

68 +Kansas City Chiefs (4-12) Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt

69 New York Jets (4-12) - Eric Young, OG/OT, Tennessee

70 +Atlanta Falcons (4-12) - Tony Hills, OT, Texas

71 San Francisco 49ers (5-11) - Dorien Bryant, WR/KR, Purdue

72 Buffalo Bills (from BAL (5-11)) - Geno Hayes, OLB, Florida State*

73 Chicago Bears (7-9) - Marcus Griffin, S, Texas

74 Detroit Lions (7-9) - Ali Highsmith, OLB, LSU

75 Cincinnatti Bengals (7-9) Beau Bell, OLB/ILB, UNLV

76 New Orleans Saints (7-9) - Anthony Collins, OT, Kansas

77 Buffalo Bills (7-9) - Cornelius Ingram TE, Florida*

78 Minnesota Vikings (from DEN (7-9)) - Gosder Cherilus, OT, Boston College

79 Carolina Panthers (7-9) - Dennis Dixon, QB, Oregon

80 Houston Texans (8-8) - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB, Tennessee State

81 Philadelphia Eagles (8-8) - Craig Steltz, S, LSU

82 Arizona Cardinals (8-8) - Cliff Avril, OLB/DE, Purdue

83 Minnesota Vikings (8-8) - Titus Brown, DE, Mississippi State

84 Cleveland Browns (10-6) - Marcus Harrison, DT, Arkansas

85 Washington Redskins (9-7) Philip Wheeler, ILB/OLB, Georiga Tech

86 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (9-7) - John David Booty, QB, USC

87 Tennessee Titans (10-6) - Davone Bess, WR, Hawaii*

88 Seattle Seahawks (10-6) - Tom Zbikowski, S/KR, Notre Dame

89 Pittsburgh Steelers (10-6) Adam Speiker, C, Missouri

90 New York Giants (10-6) - Jeremy Perry, OG, Oregon State

91 Chicago Bears (from SD (11-5)) - Tashard Choice, HB, Georgia Tech

92 Jacksonville Jaguars (11-5) - Dwight Lowry, CB, San Jose State

93 Green Bay Packers (13-3) - Mike Hart, HB, Michigan

94 Indianapolis Colts (13-3) - Javon Ringer, HB, Michigan State*

95 Dallas Cowboys (13-3) - Ezra Butler, ILB, Nevada

96 New England Patriots (16-0) - Jacob Hester, FB/RB, LSU

Best Players Available


Steve Johnson, WR, Kentucky
Jordy Nelson, WR, Kansas State
Thomas DeCoud, S, California
Matt Forte, HB, Tulane
Chad Henne, QB, Michigan
John Carlson, TE, Notre Dame
Ben Moffitt, ILB, South Florida
Tavares Gooden, ILB, Miami
Jonal Saint-Dic, DE, Michigan State
D.J. Hall, WR, Alabama
Tyson Jackson, DE, Louisiana State*
Patrick Lee, CB, Auburn
Erik Ainge, QB, Tennessee
Darry Beckwith, ILB, Louisiana State*
Donnie Avery, WR/KR, Houston
Dennis Keyes, S, UCLA
James Mcclinton, DT, Kansas
Duane Brown, OG/OT, Virginia Tech
Kendall Langford, DE, Hampton
Louis Holmes, DE/OLB, Arizona
Steve Justice, C, Wake Forest
Peyton Hillis, FB/RB, Arkansas
Chris Horton, S, UCLA
Mike Mickens, CB, Cincinnatti*
Lionel Dotson, DT, Arizona
Quintin Demps, S, Texas-El Paso
Dantrell Savage, HB, Oklahoma State*
Kirk Barton, OT, Ohio State
Allen Patrick, HB, Oklahoma*
Maurice Crum, ILB, Notre Dame
Tony Temple, HB, Missouri*
Jamie Silva, S, Boston College


Noteable Underclassmen Returning to School

Phil Loadholt, OT, Oklahoma
Kevin Smith, HB, Central Florida*
Michael Oher OT/OG, Mississippi*
Fili Moala, DT, Southern California*
Jamaal Charles, HB, Texas*
Darius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland*
Jasper Brinkley, ILB, South Carolina*
Duke Robinson, OG, Oklahoma*
Steve Slaton, HB, West Virginia*
Brian Cushing, OLB, Southern California*
Sean Lee, OLB, Penn State*
William Moore, S, Missouri*
Phillip Merling, DE, Clemson*
Justin King, CB/KR, Penn State*
Courtney Greene, S, Rutgers*
Nic Harris, S, Oklahoma*
Derrick Harvey, DE/OLB, Florida*
Terrence Taylor, DT/NT Michigan*
Martellus Bennett, TE, Texas A&M*
Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State*
Earl Bennett, WR, Vanderbilt*
Javorskie Lane, FB/RB, Texas A&M*

I finally found whats wrong with your picks. You have Detroit picking ahead of us in the 2nd. We should be picking 44 (if you count NEs vacated pick as #32). I knew something was off.

ICON
01-10-2008, 12:01 PM
27 San Diego Chargers (11-5) - Dan Connor, ILB/OLB, Penn State IF the cry baby's end up with Dan connor @ 27 I don't know what evil i will do.

bpc
01-10-2008, 03:02 PM
That's how San Diego does it... they just take the best football player. That is why they are kicking our ass every year.

As for Foxworth, can we just kill this talk of trading him for something? Who in their right mind would trade for this tweener who hasn't dominated at CB or S and now lacks an original position?

It won't happen. Ever.

ayjackson
01-10-2008, 03:36 PM
I like Donnie Avery and Quentin Demps with our fourths.

This draft is missing an OT, though. Chris Williams would look good if we could somehow add a pick.

darnik44
01-10-2008, 04:09 PM
I finally found whats wrong with your picks. You have Detroit picking ahead of us in the 2nd. We should be picking 44 (if you count NEs vacated pick as #32). I knew something was off.

The order doesn't stay the same throughout the draft. Teams with the same record rotate through the order. Detroit has the lowest pick of the 7-9 teams in the first round. They move to the top of that group in the second round, and so on.

Requiem
01-10-2008, 04:25 PM
Welcome dude.

Does Gleason still post over there? Haven't talked to him since he grew his first pubes.

Feel free to talk draft here always dude.

ayjackson
01-10-2008, 07:19 PM
The order doesn't stay the same throughout the draft. Teams with the same record rotate through the order. Detroit has the lowest pick of the 7-9 teams in the first round. They move to the top of that group in the second round, and so on.

I was under the impression that it rotated the other direction, and only for teams that have to resort to a coin flip.

Kaylore
01-11-2008, 12:52 AM
I'm not thrilled with us taking another undersized defensive lineman in the first round. Our front seven should be getting bigger, not smaller.

Broncoman13
01-11-2008, 08:59 AM
I'm not thrilled with us taking another undersized defensive lineman in the first round. Our front seven should be getting bigger, not smaller.

You're still in the Bates frame of mind. Now we can go with penetrating speed type DTs if we'd like. G-$$$ come on back!