So how do we fix those lines then? (PLEASE READ CAREFULLY)

[chrisp]

We can all agree that there is one glaring area where we need improvement - and that is the lines, both lines.

So clearly going into the offseason that should be our #1 priority, however the key question is HOW.

Now before you all leap in with the obvious answers there are rules to this thread: You must carefully consider the following two points before posting:

1) very very little true free-agent talent hits the market these days. True top-notch guys (the type we need) get signed before the free-agency period begins. The guys that hit the market will all have some kind of question-mark against them, even if it is only a small one...

2) Even the best draft choices on the line usually take 2-3 years to really find their feet and start to play. Its not uncommon to find even future pro-bowlers riding the pine most of their first year.

So, can you honestly say that taking both of the above factors into account there is an answer for us this offseason? Please consider your answer carefully.....

[PLOWHORSE]

Probably.

[Spider]

we cut Walker , trade Champ , and get Ocho Droppo ... jeez get a clue already ........oh and fire Shanny bring in the almight and super great coach Cowher aka the chin, who will bring in the great Foneco .....

[SDRaiderH8er]

Maybe you can lobby the NFL to bring back your illegal blocking “Techniques”. That way you can start to win more games by breaking players ankles.

[FantomForce]

we cut Walker , trade Champ , and get Ocho Droppo ... jeez get a clue already ........oh and fire Shanny bring in the almight and super great coach Cowher aka the chin .....

ROFL! ROFL! LOL

[Spider]

Maybe you can lobby the NFL to bring back your illegal blocking “Techniques”. That way you can start to win more games by breaking players ankles.

this is just a guess , but did you forget to take any meds today ?

[SoCalBronco]

we cut Walker , trade Champ , and get Ocho Droppo ... jeez get a clue already ........oh and fire Shanny bring in the almight and super great coach Cowher aka the chin .....

You forgot signing Foneco.

[Florida_Bronco]

Right now I only really see us having trouble at offensive and defensive tackles. We are pretty solid with our offensive interior and we have young talent to develop at defensive end.

At offensive tackle, Lepsis had a rough year BUT he may bounce back some next year, hopefully giving us a year or two to groom someone behind him. I really think our 1st round pick will be our LT of the future. We have Harris waiting in the wings at RT and according to Wabbit the staff is very pleased with what he brings to the table.

Defensive tackle concerns me. As you said, it's uncommon for rookies to really come in and light it up on the lines, so we need to get a FA here, and I really like Corey Williams from Green Bay. I think signing Williams (or a comparable player) and drafting a DT should leave us with enough depth for us to make a good push.

[Florida_Bronco]

Maybe you can lobby the NFL to bring back your illegal blocking “Techniques”. That way you can start to win more games by breaking players ankles.

This post is just full of garbage. Our blocking scheme is not illegal (never has been, never will be) and even your team runs it at times. With the exception of that guy from the Bengals, we have never injured a player with cut blocking.

[2KBack]

This post is just full of garbage. Our blocking scheme is not illegal (never has been, never will be) and even your team runs it at times. With the exception of that guy from the Bengals, we have never injured a player with cut blocking.

Dude, ignore, the guy has less than a hundred posts in almost 5 years and he has posted 50 of those in the past week. He is a front running troll.

[Florida_Bronco]

Dude, ignore, the guy has less than a hundred posts in almost 5 years and he has posted 50 of those in the past week. He is a front running troll.

Good point. I guess I was too tempted to point out all the inaccuracies in his post. ROFL!

[Spider]

You forgot signing Foneco.

I dont know how I could forget Foneco ........ :oyvey:
I hope Foneco forgives me

[SDRaiderH8er]

This post is just full of garbage. Our blocking scheme is not illegal (never has been, never will be) and even your team runs it at times. With the exception of that guy from the Bengals, we have never injured a player with cut blocking.

would you like a list of every ankle that has been broken while the defensive team was on the field, and the Broncos were on offense?

[Spider]

You forgot signing Foneco.

;D i fixed it , I hope Foneco doesnt notice

[Spider]

would you like a list of every ankle that has been broken while the defensive team was on the field, and the Broncos were on offense?

I doubt you can count past 3 without help from the puter ....... But I am sure mom and Dad are proud of you anyway .......

[chrisp]

would you like a list of every ankle that has been broken while the defensive team was on the field, and the Broncos were on offense?

Thanks for f***ing up my thread ****head. This had promise before you got involved, now its headed for the horses' butt.

Charger troll filling the vacuum created by the Cheifs and Raiders both sucking in the same season......

[chrisp]

Right now I only really see us having trouble at offensive and defensive tackles. We are pretty solid with our offensive interior and we have young talent to develop at defensive end.

At offensive tackle, Lepsis had a rough year BUT he may bounce back some next year, hopefully giving us a year or two to groom someone behind him. I really think our 1st round pick will be our LT of the future. We have Harris waiting in the wings at RT and according to Wabbit the staff is very pleased with what he brings to the table.

Defensive tackle concerns me. As you said, it's uncommon for rookies to really come in and light it up on the lines, so we need to get a FA here, and I really like Corey Williams from Green Bay. I think signing Williams (or a comparable player) and drafting a DT should leave us with enough depth for us to make a good push.

have to say I agree with you there, and thanks for providing the kind of considered response I was looking for.

I do happen to think that quality FA DTs are hard ot find, but easier to find than quality FA Offensive LTs. Now we have our franchise QB via the draft we need to be looking for out franchise LT via the same route.

[NFLBRONCO]

Definately get started on upgrading OT and DT spots. This is a 2 or 3 year rebuild so that gives OL time to develop by the time we are real solid.

[Blueflame]

;D i fixed it , I hope Foneco doesnt notice

Yeah...if he does notice, he might "smite" you... Ha!

[2KBack]

have to say I agree with you there, and thanks for providing the kind of considered response I was looking for.

I do happen to think that quality FA DTs are hard ot find, but easier to find than quality FA Offensive LTs. Now we have our franchise QB via the draft we need to be looking for out franchise LT via the same route.

How often do rookie OT's make an impact? I want to say that you have a better chance of finding a rookie OL to contribute than a rookie DT. Though I guess it could be argued that the young guys on both lines may improve.

[Spider]

Yeah...if he does notice, he might "smite" you... Ha!

I hope not , I already have a date for new years ;D

[Blueflame]

I hope not , I already have a date for new years ;D

;D

On a more serious note, I hope the coaches have learned their lesson re: signing over-the-hill, overweight DTs like Sam Adams and Simeon Rice... that experiment failed craptacularly...

[Los Broncos]

To me the o-line comes first, we have been so bad the last few games.

We did ok earlier in the year, but we need some serious beef up front.

With Moss hopefully coming back healthy, we need a big, run stuffing DT.

[SDRaiderH8er]

Thanks for ****ing up my thread ****head. This had promise before you got involved, now its headed for the horses' butt.

Charger troll filling the vacuum created by the Cheifs and Raiders both sucking in the same season......


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/scblue55/7395ptca.jpg

[Spider]

;D

On a more serious note, I hope the coaches have learned their lesson re: signing over-the-hill, overweight DTs like Sam Adams and Simeon Rice... that experiment failed craptacularly...

Lets hope so

[Los Broncos]

SD fan needs to let it go, its getting to be an eye sore.

[Blueflame]

SD fan needs to let it go, its getting to be an eye sore.

SD fan needs to have his fun while he can... he knows as well as we do that "one-and-done" is looming on the horizon...

[Florida_Bronco]

would you like a list of every ankle that has been broken while the defensive team was on the field, and the Broncos were on offense?

Bring it on. Then I want you to provide video proof clearly showing it was a cut block. :wave:

[Los Broncos]

Yeah, let em have their fun.....but there is no way they can lose in the first round this year.

[Blueflame]

Yeah, let em have their fun.....but there is no way they can lose in the first round this year.

The odds are that it won't happen, but should they lose to the Faid tomorrow (assuming the Roethlisbergerless Steelers still beat the Ravens), their WC game would be against the Jags..... if that's the matchup, I'll take the Jags.

[Florida_Bronco]

have to say I agree with you there, and thanks for providing the kind of considered response I was looking for.

I do happen to think that quality FA DTs are hard ot find, but easier to find than quality FA Offensive LTs. Now we have our franchise QB via the draft we need to be looking for out franchise LT via the same route.

Thanks for the compliment, and don't let the Sparkler troll bother you.

As always, free agents and rookies are always hit or miss, but with a FA at least you have a chance to see them play at the pro level. Corey Williams plays in Green Bay, who to my knowledge still uses a scheme alot like Bates runs, so there is a plus in that.

Honestly I'm not that worried about LT yet. Lepsis had a tough year coming off injury and then getting banged up most the year. I think he'll come back and have a good year, which would allow us to draft someone this year and groom behind him. We definetly need to get that franchise LT this year though, as it's unlikely we'll have Lepsis around to tutor him if we wait any longer.

[Los Broncos]

The odds are that it won't happen, but should they lose to the Faid tomorrow (assuming the Roethlisbergerless Steelers still beat the Ravens), their WC game would be against the Jags..... if that's the matchup, I'll take the Jags.

If its Jacksonville then maybe, but any other team, no way they lose.

If they somehow lose, it will be mass suicide in SD.

[Blueflame]

Thanks for the compliment, and don't let the Sparkler troll bother you.

As always, free agents and rookies are always hit or miss, but with a FA at least you have a chance to see them play at the pro level. Corey Williams plays in Green Bay, who to my knowledge still uses a scheme alot like Bates runs, so there is a plus in that.

Honestly I'm not that worried about LT yet. Lepsis had a tough year coming off injury and then getting banged up most the year. I think he'll come back and have a good year, which would allow us to draft someone this year and groom behind him. We definetly need to get that franchise LT this year though, as it's unlikely we'll have Lepsis around to tutor him if we wait any longer.

Absolutely we need the depth behind the veterans on the O-line. Even if Lepsis and Nalen are both healthy enough to play next year, they are to the point in their careers where age and injuries could begin to catch up to them.I love it that Myers and Kuper got some valuable experience because it will help them to mature into the starters that they will one day be.

[Blueflame]

If its Jacksonville then maybe, but any other team, no way they lose.

If they somehow lose, it will be mass suicide in SD.

The Titans gave 'em all they wanted in the earlier matchup... the win was by only 6 points. 'Course that was in Tennessee...

[Los Broncos]

The Titans gave 'em all they wanted in the earlier matchup... the win was by only 6 points. 'Course that was in Tennessee...

I just cant see SD with all that talent and a year smarter lose again in the first RD.

I hope im wrong....

[zdoor]

I'd like to see us go free agent on DT. Corey Williams, would be my first choice if he hits the market but there are a couple other options out there as well. A Mid round pick would also be worth a crap shoot.

For OT we need 2 first day picks. I like Otah and he probably can be had mid-late first which would give us the option of trading down and getting an extra second which I'd spend on LB. If we couldn't trade to gain picks than you gotta go highest rated player between LB and OT with RD 1 but I'd still spend the next 2 picks on OT.


Lepsis needs to be re-structured and have some base moved to incentives. He needs to stay around though, I think he'll play better next year as he is further removed from his surgeries.

[Blueflame]

I just cant see SD with all that talent and a year smarter lose again in the first RD.

I hope im wrong....

I can't bring myself to say "go Fai.... " nope, just can't do it (still wanna yell "Raiders suck" intead LOL). But nonetheless, it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all to see the trashtalking punk on the ground underneath Warren Sapp... ;D

Wouldn't surprise me to see the Boltz go into tomorrow's game overconfident... either way we'll have rival fans here bragging, but I'm not sure I don't prefer Fadefan (fewer of 'em, for one thing).

If the Boltz make it through the WC game, they'll lose the next week. I'm quite certain of that.

[Los Broncos]

I can't bring myself to say "go Fai.... " nope, just can't do it (still wanna yell "Raiders suck" intead LOL). But nonetheless, it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all to see the trashtalking punk on the ground underneath Warren Sapp... ;D

Wouldn't surprise me to see the Boltz go into tomorrow's game overconfident... either way we'll have rival fans here bragging, but I'm not sure I don't prefer Fadefan (fewer of 'em, for one thing).

If the Boltz make it through the WC game, they'll lose the next week. I'm quite certain of that.

Like i said, i hope im wrong.

Lets hope so Blue!

[rubaiyat]

We can all agree that there is one glaring area where we need improvement - and that is the lines, both lines.

So clearly going into the offseason that should be our #1 priority, however the key question is HOW.

Now before you all leap in with the obvious answers there are rules to this thread: You must carefully consider the following two points before posting:

1) very very little true free-agent talent hits the market these days. True top-notch guys (the type we need) get signed before the free-agency period begins. The guys that hit the market will all have some kind of question-mark against them, even if it is only a small one...

2) Even the best draft choices on the line usually take 2-3 years to really find their feet and start to play. Its not uncommon to find even future pro-bowlers riding the pine most of their first year.

So, can you honestly say that taking both of the above factors into account there is an answer for us this offseason? Please consider your answer carefully.....

Isn't Faneca available this offseason. Not that he's an answer for our scheme, or even in our price range, but there might be a couple available.

We might have to bite the bullet though and build it up through the draft. I think we are two players away from the Dline being good, and three on the O line...but we do have young guys and like you said it's reasonable for even Pro-bowlers to start out riding the pine

[BroncoBuff]

Right now I only really see us having trouble at offensive and defensive tackles. We are pretty solid with our offensive interior and we have young talent to develop at defensive end.

At offensive tackle, Lepsis had a rough year BUT he may bounce back some next year, hopefully giving us a year or two to groom someone behind him. I really think our 1st round pick will be our LT of the future. We have Harris waiting in the wings at RT and according to Wabbit the staff is very pleased with what he brings to the table.

Defensive tackle concerns me. As you said, it's uncommon for rookies to really come in and light it up on the lines, so we need to get a FA here, and I really like Corey Williams from Green Bay. I think signing Williams (or a comparable player) and drafting a DT should leave us with enough depth for us to make a good push.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

.

[Florida_Bronco]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

.

BB, you're an alright guy...ya know for a Buffs fan and all. :)

[eddie mac]

The NFL has changed somewhat over the last few years and especially the Broncos in terms of rookies seeing the field early.

Plus the fact this is one of the best OT classes in the past few years. I'd say if we draft an OT in the first rd he'll be in there on day 1.

Look at the OT's taken in the 1st-2nd rds last year. Everyone of them started this season.

J Thomas 15 starts
L Brown 10 starts
J Staley 15 starts
T Ugoh 10 starts

[BroncoBuff]

BB, you're an alright guy...ya know for a Buffs fan and all. :)
"Thank you, sir," he said, to the man with the gun.

.

[Florida_Bronco]

"Thank you, sir," he said, to the man with the gun.

.

FYI, I only shoot at Texas fans. ;)

[Atlas]

Really I don't see a major problem in either OL or DL. What I see is lack of experience. Both lines are extremely young. Lepsis is coming off major kneee surgury and should be better next year considering it usually take 14 months from injury to fully recover. I would bring back both Nalen and Hamilton for next year, Denver has Harris which they are grooming for a T job. If he is doing well then I don't see a need to even draft an OL next year. Denver needs experience and now that these young guys have a year under their belt we need to see what they can do. Hamilton, Nalen and Harris should improve the team.
As far as the DL the same is too be said 6 of the the DL have 2 years or under experience. Alot of them got reps and they should be better next year. There is one major hole at DT and I would trade down and use a 1st rounder on Frank Okam. Then I would take another DT later in the draft.
With picks 2-7 Denver needs to concentrate on WR, S, LB and a RB of course.

[dsmoot]

Really I don't see a major problem in either OL or DL. What I see is lack of experience. Both lines are extremely young. Lepsis is coming off major kneee surgury and should be better next year considering it usually take 14 months from injury to fully recover. I would bring back both Nalen and Hamilton for next year, Denver has Harris which they are grooming for a T job. If he is doing well then I don't see a need to even draft an OL next year. Denver needs experience and now that these young guys have a year under their belt we need to see what they can do. Hamilton, Nalen and Harris should improve the team.
As far as the DL the same is too be said 6 of the the DL have 2 years or under experience. Alot of them got reps and they should be better next year. There is one major hole at DT and I would trade down and use a 1st rounder on Frank Okam. Then I would take another DT later in the draft.
With picks 2-7 Denver needs to concentrate on WR, S, LB and a RB of course.

I can spend a long time addressing so many things you have said. In a nutshell, you must have ignored a significant amount of this years games to say what you have. You make Norman Vincent Peale look like a pessimist.

Experience - I agree that our OL young guys need more experience. If I saw them consistently matching up physically but missing assignments then I would agree with you. However they are getting beat PHYSICALLY. You can't teach physical. See George Foster.

Nalen - Nalen had already been showing signs of his age. Couple that with a knee injury and the desire (?) to come back at WHAT level. No decent GM would pencil him in and say they don't have to address his replacement. Myers ???? - this is a dropoff no matter how you figure it. Ask yourself this question - which team would take Myers right now and start him.

Hamilton - I can almost repeat the Nalen scenario but not due to age. His reaction to this concussion was so serious that ANYONE would be CRAZY to count on him for the future. This was not a Steve Young or Aikman type of concussion. This was life altering. Again, no decent GM would pencil him in and say they don't have to address his replacement NOW.

Lepsis/Pears - Lepsis WILL NOT return to his former self and Pears could not start for ANY team in the NFL. These two are killing us. Pears is a 3 year vet, what you see is what you get. A replacement for one of these positions MUST be found this year. The other replacement must be made by the following year.

Kuper - This guy looks like the prototypical guy we need but again I see him getting physically manhandled. This worries me even though I am hopeful.

Harris - I saved the best for last. If there is anything that gripes me on the Mane it is this forecasting of a young offensive linemen who isn't playing (Is he suiting up?) as the next piece of the puzzle, therefore there is no need to draft/sign a lineman. Especially a lineman with an injury issue. Where have I heard this before. If there is anything I know about Mike Shanahan, it is the fact that this player would be playing if he was better than the guy starting. For a point of reference, see the Lepsis/Pears discussion. At least when Trevor Pryce and Nalen were sitting on the bench during the rookie year, we were hearing from the veterans about how special they were going to be.
I am not hearing ANYTHING about Harris.

[Paladin]

This message is hidden because SDRaiderH8er is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=editlist)

[Paladin]

I can't bring myself to say "go Fai.... " nope, just can't do it (still wanna yell "Raiders suck" intead LOL). But nonetheless, it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all to see the trashtalking punk on the ground underneath Warren Sapp... ;D

Wouldn't surprise me to see the Boltz go into tomorrow's game overconfident... either way we'll have rival fans here bragging, but I'm not sure I don't prefer Fadefan (fewer of 'em, for one thing).

If the Boltz make it through the WC game, they'll lose the next week. I'm quite certain of that.


agreed X3

[Paladin]

I can spend a long time addressing so many things you have said. In a nutshell, you must have ignored a significant amount of this years games to say what you have. You make Norman Vincent Peale look like a pessimist.

Experience - I agree that our OL young guys need more experience. If I saw them consistently matching up physically but missing assignments then I would agree with you. However they are getting beat PHYSICALLY. You can't teach physical. See George Foster.

Nalen - Nalen had already been showing signs of his age. Couple that with a knee injury and the desire (?) to come back at WHAT level. No decent GM would pencil him in and say they don't have to address his replacement. Myers ???? - this is a dropoff no matter how you figure it. Ask yourself this question - which team would take Myers right now and start him.

Hamilton - I can almost repeat the Nalen scenario but not due to age. His reaction to this concussion was so serious that ANYONE would be CRAZY to count on him for the future. This was not a Steve Young or Aikman type of concussion. This was life altering. Again, no decent GM would pencil him in and say they don't have to address his replacement NOW.

Lepsis/Pears - Lepsis WILL NOT return to his former self and Pears could not start for ANY team in the NFL. These two are killing us. Pears is a 3 year vet, what you see is what you get. A replacement for one of these positions MUST be found this year. The other replacement must be made by the following year.

Kuper - This guy looks like the prototypical guy we need but again I see him getting physically manhandled. This worries me even though I am hopeful.

Harris - I saved the best for last. If there is anything that gripes me on the Mane it is this forecasting of a young offensive linemen who isn't playing (Is he suiting up?) as the next piece of the puzzle, therefore there is no need to draft/sign a lineman. Especially a lineman with an injury issue. Where have I heard this before. If there is anything I know about Mike Shanahan, it is the fact that this player would be playing if he was better than the guy starting. For a point of reference, see the Lepsis/Pears discussion. At least when Trevor Pryce and Nalen were sitting on the bench during the rookie year, we were hearing from the veterans about how special they were going to be.
I am not hearing ANYTHING about Harris.

If its that hopeless, pass the smoke, I need a hit, too.....

[Breaker]

Maybe you can lobby the NFL to bring back your illegal blocking “Techniques”. That way you can start to win more games by breaking players ankles.

maybe the Chuggers should start trying to do something "cheap" so that they actually win something, at some point you have to think that they would like to rescind their reputation as a trash franchise.

[Drek]

We can all agree that there is one glaring area where we need improvement - and that is the lines, both lines.

So clearly going into the offseason that should be our #1 priority, however the key question is HOW.

Another lines thread?

I guess I'll just repeat the solution I've posted about ten times now.

Sign one of Jordan Gross or Max Starks to play RT. Gross would be pricey but might hit the market since the Panthers have both him and Travel Wharton (their LT) hitting UFA this year. Thats a big chunk of change to pay out if they keep both.

Max Starks has more questions than Gross and he lost his starting job this season, but he started for the Steelers both of the previous seasons, is big with nimble feet, and is still only in his mid 20's. He'd be a very similar acquisition to Montrae Holland, which has worked out quite well for us.

Then use our first round pick on a truly elite OT talent to develop. Not necessarily the answer in '08 but the long term solution to cover Cutler's blind side the next ten years. For '08 we just make LT an open competition between three guys with question marks and the rookie; Lepsis who needs to rebound from his worst season to date post-ACL/microfracture, Pears who looked good at LT in '06 but sucked balls at RT this year (does his skillset only play well at LT or was he just a one year wonder?), and Harris who has no starting experience and has had two back surgeries in the past year as well as weight issues (he can't keep enough on).

A solid answer should emerge from that group as well as leaving us with a couple ok backups at OT.

The interior line isn't in significant peril. I think Nalen comes back and Hamilton hangs 'em up, so in that case we pencil Nails back in at C, have Kuper and Myers battle for LG, and let Holland stay right where he was successful most of this year.

As for DL, well, we need some serious interior line help more than anything. Looks like Corey Williams could hit the market, Green Bay already has a lot of DT commitments in Ryan Pickett and Justin Harrell, I don't see them giving a big wad of cash to Corey Williams. He'll be pricey but he should be our key FA acquisition of the off-season. Snagging fellow GB FA Colin Coles, who has played two gap in Bates' scheme before, would be a good move for a rotational backup as well.

I think Frank Okam is going to be a slider. He's going to grade out on tape very similar to Alan Branch last season, and Branch slid from the projected early to mid first all the way to the early 2nd. We have an early second and Okam has a better top tier DT class he'll be compared against (Dorsey and Ellis). I think its very likely we can snag him with our 2nd rounder.

Then at DE we need a reliable every down DE. Some think that should be Ekuban, personally I don't want to take my chances on him coming back from injury. Thankfully the Bengals D has been abysmal this season and Justin Smith's production has suffered for it. He was tagged last year, I don't see the Bengals giving him the kind of cash bump a second tag demands so he could very likely hit the market and probably won't command elite dollars as he is not a pass rushing DE and he's going to be stepping out in a class that could very well have Jared Allen and Terrell Suggs available.

In lieu of getting Smith I could settle for resigning Ekuban and adding Mike Rucker on a cheap deal, at least one of them should provide something. I'd like us to take a chance on one of them even if we did sign Smith actually.

So I'd estimate the moves to basically be this, assuming we have $20M in cap space and get the 10th pick in the 1st, 9th pick in the 2nd (thats how they rotate).

Corey Williams - 5 years, $30M, $15M guaranteed. Thats $6M in cap room annually (if we don't back load it). Thats a little less money than what Patrick Kerney got, so it seems pretty reasonable to me.
Justin Smith - 4 years, $16M, $8M guaranteed. $4M AAV tied up.
Colin Coles - 2 year, $3M deal, $1M guaranteed. $1.5M AAV.
Frank Okam - second round choice, about $1M first year cap number.
Ekuban/Rucker - 1 year, $1M deal for whichever one will take it (Ekuban will at the least).

Max Starks - 3 years, $9M, $3M guarnateed. $3M AAV.
1st round OT - top 10 contract, probably see $2M cap number in year one (top 10 contracts are big but they get backended like there's no tomorrow).

That uses up most of our current expected cap room, with probably just enough space left to sign our remaining draftees and some UDFA/vet minimum types to help fill out the roster. But that is without backloading anything but the rookie deals, so we could do this with more money to spare in that case.

Also if we cut Hamilton or Gold, restructure Lepsis, Walker, etc. we could free up even more money, and could look to get a veteran LB to help that unit as well. Thats a different thread though, this one is just about the lines.

[elsid13]

There are two names I think we should consider when comes to the DL FA pool this year -

Isaac Sopoaga (49ers) NT- Big body (325) that been would compliment Thomas and the other rotational DTs we have on the roster. And since he has been the NT he understand what it means to occupy C/G and let the LB make plays. Plus he is young -26 years old, and might be cheaper then Williams

Paul Spicer (Jags) DE - solid vet DE that has size (296) to be the power rusher from the DE spot and stop the run.

The guys are 2nd tier FA but would be nice addition to the DL corp

[Atlas]

I can spend a long time addressing so many things you have said. In a nutshell, you must have ignored a significant amount of this years games to say what you have. You make Norman Vincent Peale look like a pessimist.

Harris - I saved the best for last. If there is anything that gripes me on the Mane it is this forecasting of a young offensive linemen who isn't playing (Is he suiting up?) as the next piece of the puzzle, therefore there is no need to draft/sign a lineman. Especially a lineman with an injury issue. Where have I heard this before. If there is anything I know about Mike Shanahan, it is the fact that this player would be playing if he was better than the guy starting. For a point of reference, see the Lepsis/Pears discussion. At least when Trevor Pryce and Nalen were sitting on the bench during the rookie year, we were hearing from the veterans about how special they were going to be.
I am not hearing ANYTHING about Harris.

You're the one who must not be watching the games. Harris suited up for almost every game. And God forbid if you aren't hearing anything about Harris he must be a bum. And for another thing I said IF they feel good about Harris they don't need to draft a T. Of course IF They don't feel good about Harris then they might want to draft a T.

[orinjkrush]

Ok, question for the GM gurus out there: if the average career of an NFL player is 3.5 years, then why do we wait 2-3 years before they really become productive?? Don't we need starters not OJT projects?

From the NFLPA:
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:iMw9_WMAbmsJ:www.nflpa.org/Faqs/NFL_HopefulsFaq.aspx+average+career+of+NFL+player&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

How long do most NFL careers last?
The average length of an NFL career is about 3 and a half seasons. Although there are some exceptional players who have long careers that extend 10 or twelve seasons and beyond, most players only stay active for about three seasons. Players leave the game because of injury, self-induced retirement, or being cut by the team. This also means that while players may make more money than most people, they are only making it for an average of three and a half years. To make sure they are successful in the future, players must invest their money well and make plans for another career when they can no longer play football.

[yavoon]

Ok, question for the GM gurus out there: if the average career of an NFL player is 3.5 years, then why do we wait 2-3 years before they really become productive?? Don't we need starters not OJT projects?

From the NFLPA:
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:iMw9_WMAbmsJ:www.nflpa.org/Faqs/NFL_HopefulsFaq.aspx+average+career+of+NFL+player&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

How long do most NFL careers last?
The average length of an NFL career is about 3 and a half seasons. Although there are some exceptional players who have long careers that extend 10 or twelve seasons and beyond, most players only stay active for about three seasons. Players leave the game because of injury, self-induced retirement, or being cut by the team. This also means that while players may make more money than most people, they are only making it for an average of three and a half years. To make sure they are successful in the future, players must invest their money well and make plans for another career when they can no longer play football.

the average is weighed down by the high % of washouts.

[Cito Pelon]

Thanks for ****ing up my thread ****head. This had promise before you got involved, now its headed for the horses' butt.

Charger troll filling the vacuum created by the Cheifs and Raiders both sucking in the same season......

"user/cp";"buddy/ignore list";add SDraiderH8er to ignore list.

As for the lines, Den should draft OT in round one this year. That's a position hard to fill by other means. For the remaining draft picks, use the 5, 6, 7ths to gain an additional 2nd, 3rd or 4th and draft BAP in a range of positions - DL, S, LB, WR, OL.

[DenverBrit]

Watching the Houston O line push the Jags D line around, bringing Kubes back would be the quickest way to fix the O line.

[dsmoot]

You're the one who must not be watching the games. Harris suited up for almost every game. And God forbid if you aren't hearing anything about Harris he must be a bum. And for another thing I said IF they feel good about Harris they don't need to draft a T. Of course IF They don't feel good about Harris then they might want to draft a T.

I didn't know if Harris was suiting up because I haven't seen him in the games (which is why I put ???). I don't know if he is a bum. Then again I don't know if the staff favors him - nothing being said like I heard some very positive things were being said when Nalen was a rookie. As poorly as Pears has played at times, why haven't seen Harris in the games. I can only go on playing time. My point was, I can't forecast he will be any good until we actually see him play. So I don't forecast for the answer to our OL woes.

[dbfan4life]

we cut Walker , trade Champ , and get Ocho Droppo ... jeez get a clue already ........oh and fire Shanny bring in the almight and super great coach Cowher aka the chin, who will bring in the great Foneco .....

Thread should have been closed after this post here.

[PRBronco]

Another lines thread?

I guess I'll just repeat the solution I've posted about ten times now.

Sign one of Jordan Gross or Max Starks to play RT. Gross would be pricey but might hit the market since the Panthers have both him and Travel Wharton (their LT) hitting UFA this year. Thats a big chunk of change to pay out if they keep both.

Max Starks has more questions than Gross and he lost his starting job this season, but he started for the Steelers both of the previous seasons, is big with nimble feet, and is still only in his mid 20's. He'd be a very similar acquisition to Montrae Holland, which has worked out quite well for us.

Then use our first round pick on a truly elite OT talent to develop. Not necessarily the answer in '08 but the long term solution to cover Cutler's blind side the next ten years. For '08 we just make LT an open competition between three guys with question marks and the rookie; Lepsis who needs to rebound from his worst season to date post-ACL/microfracture, Pears who looked good at LT in '06 but sucked balls at RT this year (does his skillset only play well at LT or was he just a one year wonder?), and Harris who has no starting experience and has had two back surgeries in the past year as well as weight issues (he can't keep enough on).

A solid answer should emerge from that group as well as leaving us with a couple ok backups at OT.

The interior line isn't in significant peril. I think Nalen comes back and Hamilton hangs 'em up, so in that case we pencil Nails back in at C, have Kuper and Myers battle for LG, and let Holland stay right where he was successful most of this year.

As for DL, well, we need some serious interior line help more than anything. Looks like Corey Williams could hit the market, Green Bay already has a lot of DT commitments in Ryan Pickett and Justin Harrell, I don't see them giving a big wad of cash to Corey Williams. He'll be pricey but he should be our key FA acquisition of the off-season. Snagging fellow GB FA Colin Coles, who has played two gap in Bates' scheme before, would be a good move for a rotational backup as well.

I think Frank Okam is going to be a slider. He's going to grade out on tape very similar to Alan Branch last season, and Branch slid from the projected early to mid first all the way to the early 2nd. We have an early second and Okam has a better top tier DT class he'll be compared against (Dorsey and Ellis). I think its very likely we can snag him with our 2nd rounder.

Then at DE we need a reliable every down DE. Some think that should be Ekuban, personally I don't want to take my chances on him coming back from injury. Thankfully the Bengals D has been abysmal this season and Justin Smith's production has suffered for it. He was tagged last year, I don't see the Bengals giving him the kind of cash bump a second tag demands so he could very likely hit the market and probably won't command elite dollars as he is not a pass rushing DE and he's going to be stepping out in a class that could very well have Jared Allen and Terrell Suggs available.

In lieu of getting Smith I could settle for resigning Ekuban and adding Mike Rucker on a cheap deal, at least one of them should provide something. I'd like us to take a chance on one of them even if we did sign Smith actually.

So I'd estimate the moves to basically be this, assuming we have $20M in cap space and get the 10th pick in the 1st, 9th pick in the 2nd (thats how they rotate).

Corey Williams - 5 years, $30M, $15M guaranteed. Thats $6M in cap room annually (if we don't back load it). Thats a little less money than what Patrick Kerney got, so it seems pretty reasonable to me.
Justin Smith - 4 years, $16M, $8M guaranteed. $4M AAV tied up.
Colin Coles - 2 year, $3M deal, $1M guaranteed. $1.5M AAV.
Frank Okam - second round choice, about $1M first year cap number.
Ekuban/Rucker - 1 year, $1M deal for whichever one will take it (Ekuban will at the least).

Max Starks - 3 years, $9M, $3M guarnateed. $3M AAV.
1st round OT - top 10 contract, probably see $2M cap number in year one (top 10 contracts are big but they get backended like there's no tomorrow).

That uses up most of our current expected cap room, with probably just enough space left to sign our remaining draftees and some UDFA/vet minimum types to help fill out the roster. But that is without backloading anything but the rookie deals, so we could do this with more money to spare in that case.

Also if we cut Hamilton or Gold, restructure Lepsis, Walker, etc. we could free up even more money, and could look to get a veteran LB to help that unit as well. Thats a different thread though, this one is just about the lines.

This post is made of win. I might screenshot it and use it as a desktop.