Bhutto assassinated

[defenseman]

Bad news folks, very bad news...dman

Pakistan's Bhutto killed in attack By SADAQAT JAN and ZARAR KHAN,



RAWALPINDI, Pakistan - Pakistan opposition leader Benazir Bhutto was assassinated Thursday in a suicide attack that also killed at least 20 others at a campaign rally, aides said.

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"The surgeons confirmed that she has been martyred," Bhutto's lawyer Babar Awan said.

A party security adviser said Bhutto was shot in neck and chest as she got into her vehicle to leave the rally in Rawalpindi near the capital Islamabad. A gunman then blew himself up.

"At 6:16 p.m. she expired," said Wasif Ali Khan, a member of Bhutto's party who was at Rawalpindi General Hospital where she was taken after the attack.

Her supporters at the hospital began chanting "Dog, Musharraf, dog," referring to Pakistan's president Pervez Musharraf.

Some smashed the glass door at the main entrance of the emergency unit, others burst into tears. One man with a flag of Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party tied around his head was beating his chest.

At least 20 others were killed in the blast that took place as Bhutto left a political rally where she addressed thousands of supporters in her campaign for Jan. 8 parliamentary elections.

Bhutto served twice as Pakistan's prime minister between 1988 and 1996. She had returned to Pakistan from an eight-year exile Oct. 18.

Her homecoming parade in Karachi was also targeted by a suicide attacker, killing more than 140 people. On that occasion she narrowly escaped injury.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

RAWALPINDI, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan opposition leader Benazir Bhutto was assassinated Thursday in a suicide bombing that also killed at least 20 others at a campaign rally, a party aide and a military official said.

"At 6:16 p.m. she expired," said Wasif Ali Khan, a member of Bhutto's party who was at Rawalpindi General Hospital where she was taken after the attack.

A senior military official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to comment, confirmed that Bhutto had died.

Her supporters at the hospital began chanting "Dog, Musharraf, dog," referring to Pakistan's president Pervez Musharraf. Some of them smashed the glass door at the main entrance of the emergency unit, others burst into tears.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071227/ap_on_re_as/pakistan

[orinjkrush]

another random attack from those crazy christian suicide bombers.

With these Pakis as our friends in the war on terror, we don't need no stinkin enemies.

[defenseman]

another random attack from those crazy christian suicide bombers.

With these Pakis as our friends in the war on terror, we don't need no stinkin enemies.

Explain..dman

[TailgateNut]

This has Musharaf written all over it! Don't you think?

[defenseman]

This has Musharaf written all over it! Don't you think?

I can't help but agree with you on this one. Musharaf I'm sure understood her importance, and the need to ensure she stayed alive. In short, her assassination is a collasal problem for him, unless of course, he had plans in place to negotiate without her there anyway, which is another problem in itself. The U.S. could be badly hurt by this. I'm not happy at all with Musharaf allowing this too happen...dman

[Spider]

Bhutto was assassinated ? .......... Bush wont stand for this .... Time to invade Chad ....

[TailgateNut]

Bhutto was assassinated ? .......... Bush wont stand for this .... Time to invade Chad ....


...ain't that the truth. ;D It's called a ricochet attack!

[Rohirrim]

Dirty, stinking, lowlife, savage, Islamic pig bastards. The human cockroaches win another one.

[Meck77]

I haven't followed the story that closely but it was just a few months ago where they almost pulled off the same thing in the same fashion. I can't say I'm surprised and can't see why anyone there would be.

[Spider]

Dirty, stinking, lowlife, savage, Islamic pig bastards. The human cockroaches win another one.

No hey didnt , there will be another Bhutto ...... just set back

[ant1999e]

No hey didnt , there will be another Bhutto ...... just set back

Another Bhutto? You talking cloning?

[Spider]

Another Bhutto? You talking cloning?

sure why not , I am sure they can get enough DNA ......... but there is always some one that will step up , always have through out history

[cutthemdown]

I'm not surprised just dissapointed for the people in Pakistan that were looking to her to be a buffer against Mushureff and his military type govt.

And we thought our elections got nasty. Pakistan is a dirty little partner in the war on terror. One of those partners that runs your back with one hand while sharpening a knife to plunge into your back with the other.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Musharaf and Bhutto, what was the difference between them? The U.S. just panders to the terrorist harboring state because they are all nuculared up.

[Smiling Assassin27]

May she rest in peace. As not unexpected as this is, it's still a shock to the sensibilities.

[Florida_Bronco]

Forgive me for my ignorance on this, but who is she exactly and what effect could this have on America?

[baja]

This makes me value even more Ron Paul's plan to control our borders and stay out of other country's business.

[sisterhellfyre]

Forgive me for my ignorance on this, but who is she exactly and what effect could this have on America?

If I remember this correctly... Pakistan is in the middle of a three-way cluster**** that has potential to get nasty. The three corners of the triangle are the Taliban and Islamic extremists at one corner, Musharraf and the power structure of his military dictatorship at another corner, and the more-or-less "progressive" pro-democracy groups in stll another corner. The pro-democracy groups are probably the least organized, but include groups of university students and "professional" classes in Pakistani society like engineers, doctors and lawyers. Bhutto (RIP) was the leader of the pro-democracy corner of the triangle.

None of the three groups like each other; they don't play well together in the sandbox. The only thing they share in common is that they all hate India.

Plus, Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Things would get really "interesting" if it appeared that the Islamic/Taliban extremists might get control of the warheads. At the very least, it would make India very nervous... and they've got nukes, too.

I'm sure that's the last thing Microsoft wants, is to have Pakistan & India lobbing nuclear warheads across the border at each other. Again. (Anybody read the Mahabharata recently?)

Regards,
m.

[24champ]

Forgive me for my ignorance on this, but who is she exactly and what effect could this have on America?

Well Americans are heavily invested/dependent on the oil in the Middle East, if war breaks out then we are all fcked. I agree 100% with Sisterhellfyre, to sum it up, it's a tinderbox in the Middle East right now. Always has been, just a matter of time before it's lit up and kaboom.

[Taco John]

Forgive me for my ignorance on this, but who is she exactly and what effect could this have on America?



It means that the likelihood of us having to go to war with Pakistan to dethron our puppet over there just increased. But it's a lot more complicated because they've got the bomb.

[elsid13]

If I remember this correctly... Pakistan is in the middle of a three-way cluster**** that has potential to get nasty. The three corners of the triangle are the Taliban and Islamic extremists at one corner, Musharraf and the power structure of his military dictatorship at another corner, and the more-or-less "progressive" pro-democracy groups in stll another corner. The pro-democracy groups are probably the least organized, but include groups of university students and "professional" classes in Pakistani society like engineers, doctors and lawyers. Bhutto (RIP) was the leader of the pro-democracy corner of the triangle.

None of the three groups like each other; they don't play well together in the sandbox. The only thing they share in common is that they all hate India.

Plus, Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Things would get really "interesting" if it appeared that the Islamic/Taliban extremists might get control of the warheads. At the very least, it would make India very nervous... and they've got nukes, too.

I'm sure that's the last thing Microsoft wants, is to have Pakistan & India lobbing nuclear warheads across the border at each other. Again. (Anybody read the Mahabharata recently?)

Regards,
m.


Pretty close. The only thing I would add, while most military high command is pro-western, there is a very segment of the INTEL services that have radical beliefs and ties to Osma and his thugs.

US was attempt to push a comprise that would allow democratic elections and powering sharing between the moderate and Musharraf. Kinda of like Lebanon.

I don't think it was Musharraf that order the hit, but rather extremist that didn't want a women and pro-western democracy occurring that country.

[24champ]

It means that the likelihood of us having to go to war with Pakistan to dethron our puppet over there just increased. But it's a lot more complicated because they've got the bomb.

Which I should ask you, if the Islamofacists staged a coup of President Musharraf would Ron Paul do anything about it, or would he sit on his hands while the Islamofacists attempts to get control of the nukes?

[baja]

He would do what the congress mandated him to do.

You see he believes in the constitution and the checks and balances it provides for.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

He would do what the congress mandated him to do.
You see he believes in the constitution and the checks and balances it provides for.You mean if Congress told him to sit down and shut up he would obey?

No president does what Congress "tells them" to do. The Congress does or doesn't do what the president tells them to do.

[Crushaholic]

He would do what the congress mandated him to do.

You see he believes in the constitution and the checks and balances it provides for.

Are you saying he wouldn't have a plan of action? What kind of commander-in-chief would let the legislative body dictate our foreign policy?

[cutthemdown]

Are you saying he wouldn't have a plan of action? What kind of commander-in-chief would let the legislative body dictate our foreign policy?

A really bad one which is what Paul would be. I've listened to him enough now to be off the bandwagon.

[cutthemdown]

This has Musharaf written all over it! Don't you think?

No it has Islamic extremist written all over it.

[Spider]

No it has Islamic extremist written all over it.

come on .. we all know damn well Hillary set this up to make Ron Paul look bad ........

[cutthemdown]

come on .. we all know damn well Hillary set this up to make Ron Paul look bad ........

LOL, well I don't know about that. Mushareff takes a lot of the blame because he obviously wasn't doing much to protect her. I don't think he ordered it but it could be a case of so many wanting her dead all he had to do was not protect her. Truthfully I have no idea what's going on over there. THESE PEOPLE ARE CRAZY KILLERS and it's hard for me to understand them.

It sounds like people are saying this is bad for Mushareff so it's hard to see why he would have wanted her dead, but you never know.

Hopefully the ex-Italian president that solved 9-11 for us will shed some light on this.Hilarious!

[Spider]

LOL, well I don't know about that. Mushareff takes a lot of the blame because he obviously wasn't doing much to protect her. I don't think he ordered it but it could be a case of so many wanting her dead all he had to do was not protect her. Truthfully I have no idea what's going on over there. THESE PEOPLE ARE CRAZY KILLERS and it's hard for me to understand them.

It sounds like people are saying this is bad for Mushareff so it's hard to see why he would have wanted her dead, but you never know.

Hopefully the ex-Italian president that solved 9-11 for us will shed some light on this.Hilarious!
you got to connect the dots ... for example , Hillary is like a chicken 2 large thighs , 2 small breast , meaning she would look good in a burka , Mushariff , wants America to be a shiria law zone , and the president in Italy has a crush on Bill Clinton , so we have to find something they all love.......... Italian food ..... Muslim religion and Italian food , they will conquer us through burkas and spaghetti .Some dangerous times ....... only one that can save us is Ron Raul as president , and Sean Insanity as vee pee

[cutthemdown]

you got to connect the dots ... for example , Hillary is like a chicken 2 large thighs , 2 small breast , meaning she would look good in a burka , Mushariff , wants America to be a shiria law zone , and the president in Italy has a crush on Bill Clinton , so we have to find something they all love.......... Italian food ..... Muslim religion and Italian food , they will conquer us through burkas and spaghetti .Some dangerous times ....... only one that can save us is Ron Raul as president , and Sean Insanity as vee pee

Ok then I'm cashing in everything I own and investing in Pasta.

[24champ]

Are you saying he wouldn't have a plan of action? What kind of commander-in-chief would let the legislative body dictate our foreign policy?

A commander in chief whose head apparently is stuck in 18th century sand.

[baja]

that should net about 2 #'s of pasta and a box of rigatoni.

[Spider]

Ok then I'm cashing in everything I own and investing in Pasta.

I al ready did it .......... specialy after I saw this picture ...scared the piss out of me

[cutthemdown]

that should net about 2 #'s of pasta and a box of rigatoni.

Nope just like gold you are 3 years off on the price of rigatoni. Nice try though fraud. If anyone wants to read about Baja being proved a huge fraud just read the gold surges to 28 yr high thread. In it Baja says hey everyone I told you to buy gold a few months ago when it was 400 dollars an ounce. Problem is it hasn't been 400 an ounce since 2004. Strange mr gold investor was so far off on that. He's just upset with me now because I have exposed him as a huge fraud.

[cutthemdown]

If you are going to lie about buying gold Baja at least google the price history so you can make it look good. Some of us actually do follow the price of gold and will see you for what you are.

FRAUD!!!!!!!

[Spider]

If you are going to lie about buying gold Baja at least google the price history so you can make it look good. Some of us actually do follow the price of gold and will see you for what you are.

FRAUD!!!!!!!

is the price global ? or is it adjusted for the difference in currency , for example 400.00 American will spend alot different in mexico , or south America , even Canada ?

[cutthemdown]

is the price global ? or is it adjusted for the difference in currency , for example 400.00 American will spend alot different in mexico , or south America , even Canada ?

Gold like oil is traded in dollars not pesos. This isn't a thing where it's a misunderstanding. He straight got exposed. Spider if you had 50 grand in gold, would you write in NOV of 2007 that gold was 400 a few months ago when in fact it has not been that low since 2004? I would think most men would not which is why I asked him to clear it up. He refuses to do so which leads me to believe he can't explain it.

[Spider]

Gold like oil is traded in dollars not pesos. This isn't a thing where it's a misunderstanding. He straight got exposed. Spider if you had 50 grand in gold, would you write in NOV of 2007 that gold was 400 a few months ago when in fact it has not been that low since 2004? I would think most men would not which is why I asked him to clear it up. He refuses to do so which leads me to believe he can't explain it.

no no , thats not what I am getting at , what I am asking is , would gold traders in Mexico chash out gold below market prices ?

[cutthemdown]

no no , thats not what I am getting at , what I am asking is , would gold traders in Mexico chash out gold below market prices ?

No they would not. Gold traders in Mexico are smart also and know what it is worth. Also there are different ways to buy gold. Bullion is one way and you have to have the most money to do it this way. They come in bars from 10oz to 400oz and up. The do have 1 ounce bars but that's not really as common in Bullion from what I have seen.

My gold is not in Bullion because when I buy gold I usually don't have tons to spend at once. I have a bunch of gold one ounce coins. Canadian Maple leafs, American Buff gold coins. That way I go to this place in Inglewood and buy say 5 coins. Each coin may be slightly different in price even though they all are 1 ounce of gold. You pay a fee so the Gold has to go up just to break even. For instance gold closed at around 828 bucks an ounce today. My gold dealer however if I wanted to buy a 1 ounce american Buff would cost 863 dollars. He would buy that same coin for 848 dollars. So what the price of gold is at in only an indicator of what you can buy or sell it for.

Also coins have a better chance to be worth more the gold so that's why I like them better then bullion.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

U.S. Troops to Head to Pakistan

Beginning early next year, U.S. Special Forces are expected to vastly expand their presence in Pakistan, as part of an effort to train and support indigenous counter-insurgency forces and clandestine counterterrorism units, according to defense officials involved with the planning.

These Pakistan-centric operations will mark a shift for the U.S. military and for U.S. Pakistan relations. In the aftermath of Sept. 11, the U.S. used Pakistani bases to stage movements into Afghanistan. Yet once the U.S. deposed the Taliban government and established its main operating base at Bagram, north of Kabul, U.S. forces left Pakistan almost entirely. Since then, Pakistan has restricted U.S. involvement in cross-border military operations as well as paramilitary operations on its soil.

But the Pentagon has been frustrated by the inability of Pakistani national forces to control the borders or the frontier area. And Pakistan's political instability has heightened U.S. concern about Islamic extremists there.

According to Pentagon sources, reaching a different agreement with Pakistan became a priority for the new head of the U.S. Special Operations Command, Adm. Eric T. Olson. Olson visited Pakistan in August, November and again this month, meeting with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, Pakistani Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Chairman Gen. Tariq Majid and Lt. Gen. Muhammad Masood Aslam, commander of the military and paramilitary troops in northwest Pakistan. Olson also visited the headquarters of the Frontier Corps, a separate paramilitary force recruited from Pakistan's border tribes.

Now, a new agreement, reported when it was still being negotiated last month, has been finalized. And the first U.S. personnel could be on the ground in Pakistan by early in the new year, according to Pentagon sources.

U.S. Central Command Commander Adm. William Fallon alluded to the agreement and spoke approvingly of Pakistan's recent counterterrorism efforts in an interview with Voice of America last week.

"What we've seen in the last several months is more of a willingness to use their regular army units," along the Afghan border, Fallon said. "And this is where, I think, we can help a lot from the U.S. in providing the kind of training and assistance and mentoring based on our experience with insurgencies recently and with the terrorist problem in Iraq and Afghanistan, I think we share a lot with them, and we'll look forward to doing that."

If Pakistan actually follows through, perhaps 2008 will be a better year.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2007/12/musharrafs_woes_have_opened_a.html

[W*GS]

WHAT?!?

LABF doesn't blame Bush for Bhutto's assassination?!?

Wow.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What?

No comment from W*GS re: the assassination because his first priority is gauging my reaction?

"Bidness" as usual.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

WHAT?!?
LABF doesn't blame Bush for Bhutto's assassination?!?
Wow.Let's see, what would work better for Bush, a puppet government (see Musharraf) that caters to him or one that might actually stand up to him?

[Spider]

No they would not. Gold traders in Mexico are smart also and know what it is worth. Also there are different ways to buy gold. Bullion is one way and you have to have the most money to do it this way. They come in bars from 10oz to 400oz and up. The do have 1 ounce bars but that's not really as common in Bullion from what I have seen.

My gold is not in Bullion because when I buy gold I usually don't have tons to spend at once. I have a bunch of gold one ounce coins. Canadian Maple leafs, American Buff gold coins. That way I go to this place in Inglewood and buy say 5 coins. Each coin may be slightly different in price even though they all are 1 ounce of gold. You pay a fee so the Gold has to go up just to break even. For instance gold closed at around 828 bucks an ounce today. My gold dealer however if I wanted to buy a 1 ounce american Buff would cost 863 dollars. He would buy that same coin for 848 dollars. So what the price of gold is at in only an indicator of what you can buy or sell it for.

Also coins have a better chance to be worth more the gold so that's why I like them better then bullion.ok ,well reason i was asking is yo ugo to Mexico with American Money , you can damn near buy the country or 50.00 ..

[cutthemdown]

ok ,well reason i was asking is yo ugo to Mexico with American Money , you can damn near buy the country or 50.00 ..

Gold prices are the same all over the world give or take fee's, availability etc.

Problem with precious metal is you have to pay to have it stored instead of earning interest like you do at a bank with your dollars. Remember the story of that stripper that killed that rich casino owner in vegas, Binion I think his name was? He had tons of silver buried in the desert. People found that odd but really it isn't as uncommon as you think. Back then silver dropped so low you lost money storing it at a secure precious metal holding facility. He buried it to save money.

[Spider]

Gold prices are the same all over the world give or take fee's, availability etc.

Problem with precious metal is you have to pay to have it stored instead of earning interest like you do at a bank with your dollars. Remember the story of that stripper that killed that rich casino owner in vegas, Binion I think his name was? He had tons of silver buried in the desert. People found that odd but really it isn't as uncommon as you think. Back then silver dropped so low you lost money storing it at a secure precious metal holding facility. He buried it to save money.

I dont find it odd , my Great Aunt stuffed her mattress with fully matured T bonds , and only ate out of her garden , my Moms dad had money sealed up in concrete in his basement of his house , a cousin hid money in a old black and white tv set ;D

[AboveAverage]

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This guy has a lot of passion surrounding the issue!

[orinjkrush]

Explain..dman

total sarcasm. musta been hindu terrorists :afro:

[baja]

U.S. Troops to Head to Pakistan

Beginning early next year, U.S. Special Forces are expected to vastly expand their presence in Pakistan, as part of an effort to train and support indigenous counter-insurgency forces and clandestine counter-terrorism units, according to defense officials involved with the planning.

These Pakistan-centric operations will mark a shift for the U.S. military and for U.S. Pakistan relations. In the aftermath of Sept. 11, the U.S. used Pakistani bases to stage movements into Afghanistan. Yet once the U.S. deposed the Tailbone government and established its main operating base at Bagram, north of Kabul, U.S. forces left Pakistan almost entirely. Since then, Pakistan has restricted U.S. involvement in cross-border military operations as well as paramilitary operations on its soil.

But the Pentagon has been frustrated by the inability of Pakistani national forces to control the borders or the frontier area. And Pakistan's political instability has heightened U.S. concern about Islamic extremists there.

According to Pentagon sources, reaching a different agreement with Pakistan became a priority for the new head of the U.S. Special Operations Command, Adm. Eric T. Orson. Orson visited Pakistan in August, November and again this month, meeting with Pakistani President Perverse Musharraf, Pakistani Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Chairman Gen. Tariff Maid and Lt. Gen. Muhammad Massed Aslam, commander of the military and paramilitary troops in northwest Pakistan. Orson also visited the headquarters of the Frontier Corps, a separate paramilitary force recruited from Pakistan's border tribes.

Now, a new agreement, reported when it was still being negotiated last month, has been finalized. And the first U.S. personnel could be on the ground in Pakistan by early in the new year, according to Pentagon sources.

U.S. Central Command Commander Adm. William Fallon alluded to the agreement and spoke approvingly of Pakistan's recent counterterrorism efforts in an interview with Voice of America last week.

"What we've seen in the last several months is more of a willingness to use their regular army units," along the Afghan border, Fallon said. "And this is where, I think, we can help a lot from the U.S. in providing the kind of training and assistance and mentoring based on our experience with insurgencies recently and with the terrorist problem in Iraq and Afghanistan, I think we share a lot with them, and we'll look forward to doing that."

If Pakistan actually follows through, perhaps 2008 will be a better year.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2007/12/musharrafs_woes_have_opened_a.html

Ya maybe we can show them how to capture or kill a murderer of 3000 people like Ben Laden, oh wait a minute we don't know how or want to bring that murderer to justice

[baja]

Nope just like gold you are 3 years off on the price of rigatoni. Nice try though fraud. If anyone wants to read about Baja being proved a huge fraud just read the gold surges to 28 yr high thread. In it Baja says hey everyone I told you to buy gold a few months ago when it was 400 dollars an ounce. Problem is it hasn't been 400 an ounce since 2004. Strange mr gold investor was so far off on that. He's just upset with me now because I have exposed him as a huge fraud.

What you have proved is you have poor reading comprehension and I'll bet most people here easily see than. You are a silly little boy. I'll play your game prove you bought Apple braggart.

[cutthemdown]

What you have proved is you have poor reading comprehension and I'll bet most people here easily see than. You are a silly little boy. I'll play your game prove you bought Apple braggart.

nice try but my comments all hold water. Your comments show that you don't know anything about the price of gold, but you say you own gold. Those things are at odds with each other and you still have not explained it. If I am lying about buying Apple Stock at least I got the prices and the dates right. Even if I had not purchased it my prediction is still on record. I predicted in NOV that apple would soon hit 200. It was about 170 at the time.

[Bronco Bob]

This has Musharaf written all over it! Don't you think?

Bhutto left a taped message to be read upon her death that basically
implicates Musharraf.

[cutthemdown]

Bhutto left a taped message to be read upon her death that basically
implicates Musharraf.

He sure didn't try to protect her very well. It wouldn't be out the realm to feel he could be involved in some capacity.

[Bronco Bob]

He sure didn't try to protect her very well. It wouldn't be out the realm to feel he could be involved in some capacity.

Sometime benign neglect can be as dangerous as willful hostility.

[loborugger]

The last attempt on Bhutto's life that barely missed her was one of the more vulgar things I have heard of in the modern world.

She was in a crowd and a man was trying to hand her a baby. He made quite an effort to pass the child to her. For whatever reason, she passed over the baby to pay attention to others. Shortly after that, the child detonated, killing a handful of people around it. Bhutto's security people believed it was done by a group of extremists who kidnapped a child and then used it as a pawn. That means somewhere, somebody is waiting in vain for a child that will never come home.

The callous disregard for human life in pursuit of ones goals is often disturbing but in this case just down right detestable - and I only use detestable because words fail me in my disgust for someone like that.

[Meck77]

The last attempt on Bhutto's life that barely missed her was one of the more vulgar things I have heard of in the modern world.

She was in a crowd and a man was trying to hand her a baby. He made quite an effort to pass the child to her. For whatever reason, she passed over the baby to pay attention to others. Shortly after that, the child detonated, killing a handful of people around it. Bhutto's security people believed it was done by a group of extremists who kidnapped a child and then used it as a pawn. That means somewhere, somebody is waiting in vain for a child that will never come home.

The callous disregard for human life in pursuit of ones goals is often disturbing but in this case just down right detestable - and I only use detestable because words fail me in my disgust for someone like that.

Unreal. I saw the footage of the bomb but had no idea it was a baby. Some sad details on this link.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20071214/FOREIGN/112140060/1003

[Bronco Bob]

come on .. we all know damn well Hillary set this up to make Ron Paul look bad ........

No doubt this does help Hillary in the Dem nomination. As it does McCain
and Giuliani for the GOP. In times of international crisis people are going
to look for candidates with experience as opposed to untried rookies
like Obama, Romney, and Huckabee. I think Ron Paul and his isolationist
policies would be the last person the majority of voters would want.

[Bronco Bob]

More idiocy from Team Obama:

Team Obama Tussles With Team Hillary Over Bhutto
Evidence that Team Obama is losing their cool, Exhibit B (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7574.html):

Obama adviser David Axelrod, however, later seemed to draw a
connection between Clinton's initial support for the invasion of Iraq and
Bhutto's death. "Barack Obama had the judgment to oppose the war in Iraq,
and he warned at the time it would divert us from Afghanistan and Al Qaeda,
and now we see the effect of that,," Axelrod told reporters. "Al Qaeda's
resurgent, they're a powerful force now in Pakistan, they may have been
involved — we've been here, so I don't know whether the news has been
updated, but there's a suspicion they may have been involved in this. I think
his judgment was good. Sen. Clinton made a different judgment, so let's have
that discussion."

That drew a retort from Clinton spokesman Phil Singer.
"This is a time to be focused on the tragedy of the situation, its implications
for the U.S. and the world,
and to be concerned for the people of Pakistan and the country’s
stability. No one should be politicizing this situation with baseless allegations,"

If the U.S. had not invaded Iraq, Benazir Bhutto would be alive today? Please.
The threat of militant Islamist extremism in Pakistan predates the Iraq war by
more than a decade; Axelrod ought to take in a screening of "Charlie Wilson's
War." The threat grew, and developed, and incubated, independent of U.S.
policy for decades. It is naive folly to believe that if the U.S. had just had
the right foreign policy, we could prevent some extremist from conducting
an assassination.

To the best of our knowledge, the U.S. has not taken military action in
Pakistan, beyond the rare hellfire missile launched from an unmanned drone.
It's not like our forces in Iraq would be fighting al-Qaeda in Pakistan if the
U.S. had not invaded Iraq. (Right? Or would President Obama have announced
the invasion of Pakistan in 2003?) We don't know the exact who and how
and where on this asssassination plot, but the trail has yet to lead outside
of Pakistan. I have yet to see any compelling evidence that there is anything
the U.S. could have done to prevent this.

I find it odd to be out defending Hillary Clinton like this, but the Obama camp
has deployed a desperate flailing argument that suggests they have
absolutely no familiarity with threats from within Pakistan.

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YWE0OWZkZGMzMjJmOWY3MTU1YWE4YTA1M2QxZDkzMzg=

Can't believe some people are ready to trade the empty suit pretty boy we've
had for the past 8 years for another empty suit pretty boy.

[snowspot66]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/018049.html



December 27, 2007
More from Bhutto
Posted by James Ostrowski at December 27, 2007 09:58 PM

From Gene Trosper--

Parade Magazine will be publishing an interview with Benazir Buhtto on January 6th and this is the most interesting part:

What would you like to tell President Bush? I ask this riddle of a woman.

She would tell him, she replies, that propping up Musharraf's government, which is infested with radical Islamists, is only hastening disaster. "I would say, 'Your policy of supporting dictatorship is breaking up my country.' I now think al-Qaeda can be marching on Islamabad in two to four years."

The interview is here:

http://www.parade.com/benazir_bhutto_interview.html



Sounds a little like something a certain candidate for president has been harping on don't you think?

Ron Paul 2008

[snowspot66]

No doubt this does help Hillary in the Dem nomination. As it does McCain
and Giuliani for the GOP. In times of international crisis people are going
to look for candidates with experience as opposed to untried rookies
like Obama, Romney, and Huckabee. I think Ron Paul and his isolationist
policies would be the last person the majority of voters would want.

You are giving the American people too much credit I'm affraid. They don't care about terrorism over there. Only over here. Immigration and the failing economy will continue to trump foreign terrorism in a country most can't find on a map.

[Taco John]

I don't think anybody is going to be surprised that I think this only helps Ron Paul's argument that we need to keep our nose out of other nation's internal affairs. We spent 5 billion American Taxpayer dollars on the Musharraf government, and so far we've gotten martial law and an assassination to show for it.

I seriously doubt that anybody wants to send their kids into Pakistan to police this conflict. Where are we going to get the troops to do it? A draft?

Or are we expecting McCain or Hillary to come in and magically wave a wand that makes everybody get along?

We should just mind our own business rather than getting involved in the internal affairs of a nation that is larger than the Soviet Union was during the cold war.

[SoCalBronco]

I don't think anybody is going to be surprised that I think this only helps Ron Paul's argument that we need to keep our nose out of other nation's internal affairs. We spent 5 billion American Taxpayer dollars on the Musharraf government, and so far we've gotten martial law and an assassination to show for it.

I seriously doubt that anybody wants to send their kids into Pakistan to police this conflict. Where are we going to get the troops to do it? A draft?

Or are we expecting McCain or Hillary to come in and magically wave a wand that makes everybody get along?

We should just mind our own business rather than getting involved in the internal affairs of a nation that is larger than the Soviet Union was during the cold war.

It's not about magic wands, Boss.

The US has a vital national security interest in Pakistan. We have an interest in ensuring that the ISI types do not come to power. That there have been many mistakes and problems in our foreign aid to that country does not mean that we need to completely withdraw. Our aid should be directed at educational programs in that country to show that the West is not evil, programs to improve health and quality of living, to show that the US is a real friend, we need to engender some good will. It's important to make a positive connection with a large portion of the Islamic world that might be prone to extremist rhetoric, not because they believe that, but because they don't know any better, and are an easy target to get fed the nonsense from the extremists. We have a positive role to play. This is not to say Musharraf should be propped up no matter what...the US is in a bind, we need his cooperation on the WOT front, but it would be best for his country and also for the US as well, in terms of their view of us, to help foster moderate democratically elected leaders...I think he is close to "taking off his military uniform" as it were, which will be helpful. We can't simply withdraw from the world, but for trade. To be internationalist doesn't necessarily mean military intervensionist, but it also doesn't mean we can't take an important role in acting in our best interest when it requires it.

[cutthemdown]

I agree with socal. We can't just bury our heads in the sand and expect things to work out for the best. Our country felt the same way after WWI and that was one of the main reasons Nazi Germany and Japan were attacking their neighbors, commiting genocide for years before we finally decided to help out. I hear many Americans brag about how we bailed out England and France in WW2 when if fact we were very wrong for not helping them earlier. For Britain to have held out and not succumbed to Hitler is a testement to the heart the British display when it comes to defending freedom and their country.

If we leave these Islamic extremsist to just have a free run we will be making an extreme mistake. Now is the time for war not the time to run and hide. You run and hide and in 10 yrs the Russians and the Islamic extremist will have a huge strategic advantage over the USA all over the world.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Sometime benign neglect can be as dangerous as willful hostility.

http://www.infowars.net/pictures/Oct06/231006spet11.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Our aid should be directed at educational programs in that country to show that the West is not evil, programs to improve health and quality of living, to show that the US is a real friend, we need to engender some good will.

Which is to say "do the opposite of what Bush has done for the past seven years."

It's going to take generations to undo the ill will Bush's disastrous policies have engendered throughout the Islamic world. The unelected idiot's policies have created more terrorists, made more enemies, and elicited more hatred toward and mistrust of the U.S. than ever.

[defenseman]

The issue now? How long can Musharaff maintain his present status? In addition to, how long before someone is successful at knocking him off the same way Bhutto bought it. It's just a matter of time unfortunately given the political conditions in pakistan. All that said, the nukes presently under pakistan's congnizance is an issue. To deny this would be sticking one's head in the sand. Musharaff benefits from Bhutto's death, don't think he doesn't. The major issue I have with Musharaff, why aren't the terrorists hot beds in pakistan erradicated? He's had plenty of time, I think the last number I heard on his army compliment was between 550-600K total army troops. In addition, 2 of the 4 provinces in pakistan overtly discount Musharaff and praise bin laden and the terrorists. Again, why hasn't he taken these bozos out? We send him aide, then renigs on the deal. With Bhutto out of the way, unfortunately his "status quo" is maintained. Bhutto, was a hardliner against the terrorists and radicals, ergo, they finally knocked her off. If anything, Musharaff has an opportunity now to go in unchecked and wipe the SOB's out. Question is, will he? We are, as they say, in quite a pickle with very few options at this point. I'm afraid being proactive on our part may be one of the few viable options..........dman

[orinjkrush]

IMHO our foreign policy to Pakistan, Israel and the whole middle east, orchestrated by the State Department through many administrations, baffles the mind.

We need to stop giving away taxpayer money as foreign aid and start only giving American products/services. Watch how foreign embezzlement dries up. Then increase the watch on domestic embezzlement.

[Dead Head]

Bhutto left a taped message to be read upon her death that basically
implicates Musharraf.


According to the BBC's TV station she stabbed him in the back upon returning from exile. He got the charges against her dropped in exchange for support in building their government. All in all it's a sad tale.

[Old Dude]

Okay. I'm a little confused now.

Is there really any evidence that Musharraf had anything to do with this? Granted, he and Bhutto were political rivals / enemies ... but don't both of them have plenty of other enemies as well?

[elsid13]

Okay. I'm a little confused now.

Is there really any evidence that Musharraf had anything to do with this? Granted, he and Bhutto were political rivals / enemies ... but don't both of them have plenty of other enemies as well?

not really. Most likely it was element of the Taliban and his own intelligence services. There new article today that AlQuida was claiming it had a hand in it. The situation is fluid as they say.

[Spider]

AL Qadea my ass . it was Bill and Hillary Clinton ......

[elsid13]

AL Qadea my ass . it was Bill and Hillary Clinton ......

Nice you to see, you're still practicing for the Fox News Anchor spot. It's good have dreams Spider

[Spider]

Nice you to see, you're still practicing for the Fox News Anchor spot. It's good have dreams Spider

well we should reelect Bill Clinton and impeach his ass again

[Dead Head]

Okay. I'm a little confused now.

Is there really any evidence that Musharraf had anything to do with this? Granted, he and Bhutto were political rivals / enemies ... but don't both of them have plenty of other enemies as well?

there is none that we know of.

[baja]

Okay. I'm a little confused now.

Is there really any evidence that Musharraf had anything to do with this? Granted, he and Bhutto were political rivals / enemies ... but don't both of them have plenty of other enemies as well?


To me it would make more sense that the killers would be some group that wanted to cause Musharraf political trouble. For example if I were a neo con and was disappointed about the CIA pulling the rug out on a long nurtured reason to attack Iran this would be my next move. Now they are back on track for the next war that they seem to want so badly. They just need a reason to sell it to the people and this would be the first spet in a chain of events that could pull us into a war.

[baja]

well we should reelect Bill Clinton and impeach his ass again

Ha ha Good one Spider that made me laugh

[cutthemdown]

To me it would make more sense that the killers would be some group that wanted to cause Musharraf political trouble. For example if I were a neo con and was disappointed about the CIA pulling the rug out on a long nurtured reason to attack Iran this would be my next move. Now they are back on track for the next war that they seem to want so badly. They just need a reason to sell it to the people and this would be the first spet in a chain of events that could pull us into a war.

So you are saying the CIA killed Bhutto? Bhutto was Americas best ally in Pakistan it doesn't serve our interests to kill her.

[Spider]

So you are saying the CIA killed Bhutto? Bhutto was Americas best ally in Pakistan it doesn't serve our interests to kill her.

Tell that to the Clintons

[elsid13]

putting away the X file angle for away.

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Al-Qaeda's New Terror Tactic?

<!-- END HEADLINE --><!-- BEGIN STORY BODY -->By BRUCE CRUMLEY/PARISFri Dec 28, 12:30 PM ET


Just 24 hours after the assassination of Pakistani opposition leader Benazir Bhutto, Pakistan's interior ministry announced what many people had suspected: al-Qaeda-linked extremists were responsible for the killing. The ministry said that one of Bhutto's assailants was a known member of the extremist organization Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, a group it said was allied with al-Qaeda and the Taliban. If so, it could give further evidence for a dramatic and disturbing diversification in Al-Qaeda's terrorism playbook.

Up until now, the violent methods employed by al-Qaeda and its operatives around the globe have largely eschewed single assassinations or the targeting of political leaders. Instead the group has preferred creating chaos and panic through large terror strikes that claim large numbers of random victims - carnage that creates pressure and fear in the societies and governments that the jihadists view as enemies. This was evident in the turmoil and trauma unleashed by Al-Qaeda's strikes against civilian populations in Madrid, London, Bali and New York. The strategy, Al Qaeda has always believed, has longer effects on collective psychologies and morale than the assassination of lofty - and constantly protected - political leaders.

"One of the things that makes terrorism so difficult to prevent is it's designed to strike targets you don't really expect, or can't predict because they only look different from thousands of other potential targets in hindsight," says a French counter-terrorism official. "That's one reason why extremists haven't gone after political leaders often: those are the holders of real power everyone expects jihadists would want to kill."

But that isn't an iron-clad policy - and may be changing quickly. If the path from Bhutto's murder leads to the al-Qaeda camp, it could well indicate political assassination, once an exception to the rules, has now become a must-do in the Jihadist playbook. Islamist radicals have been accused in the past of plotting to kill Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf because of his alliance with the U.S. and its war on terror. Those purported attempts produced near-misses at best. Similarly, Taliban extremists have tried and failed to assassinate western-backed President Hamid Karzai in neighboring Afghanistan. In 2004, three extremists were arrested in Germany on accusations they were planning to assassinate Iraq's visiting Prime Minister, Ayad Allawi. And just last September, a member of Algeria's al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb killed 22 people in a suicide bombing that had as its primary target Algerian president, Abdulaziz Bouteflika. The Algerian president survived.

"Going after a well-protected leader or politician is harder, so the situation has to be just right," says a French intelligence official. "That usually means ambient chaos, possible help from within security forces, and good chance of success."

All those elements may have been in place ahead of the attack on Bhutto. The problem is determining exactly who exploited them. Al-Qaeda and the Taliban had both previously threatened her for her pledges to modernize Pakistan, and promises to allow U.S. forces to hunt down jihadists on Pakistani soil. Military and intelligence forces in the country also considered her a threat. (Members of both Pakistani agencies have long been accused of ties with al-Qaeda and the Taliban.) Even members of the Musharraf government viewed Bhutto with hostility in the run-up to the Jan. 8 elections.

"So many people had a motive for killing her it's impossible to know who was responsible despite the theories and claims now being made," says the intelligence official. "There is so much scheming and double-dealing in Pakistan that the country is the analyst's worst nightmare. We may never really know what group was responsible, and what kind of help it got."

Perhaps, but no matter who was behind Bhutto's assassination, one thing seems clear early in its aftermath: it has helped create the uproar and turmoil al-Qaeda has always seen as its best method of destabilizing enemy regimes it wants to replace. "To al-Qaeda, any means of bringing that about is fair game," the French counter-terrorism official notes, saying the group's active involvement or connivance in Bhutto's murder may be a mere detail compared to the result. "If its leaders thought political assassination of Musharraf's main rival would create real trouble for Musharraf himself, why would they hesitate? They're willing to do anything, and with anyone's help."
View this article on Time.com

Related articles on Time.com: Who Is Behind the Attack on Bhutto? Where Bhutto's Death Leaves the U.S. Pakistan on the Verge How To Welcome Back Bhutto Cheney In The War Zone




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[cutthemdown]

Al Queda scored a major victory with this assination. They are a determined enemy. The good news is they don't seem to have the capabilty to hit us here in America very well. I'm not sure if Homeland Security should get any credit? or if it's just a matter of Arabs not really fitting in as easy in America and therefore harder to go unnoticed? I can't help feeling that there is something big planned for the USA very soon. God willing it won't work out for them but I feel uneasy about it.

[Spider]

I was watching the Cartoon network , they never mentioned any of this ...

[alkemical]

http://cadeveo.wordpress.com/2007/12/28/the-number-23-and-the-bhutto-assassination/

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

This has Musharaf written all over it! Don't you think?

No it has Islamic extremist written all over it.

Bhutto sent Blitzer security e-mail

By DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer Fri Dec 28, 2:03 PM ET

NEW YORK - It was a story CNN's Wolf Blitzer hoped he'd never have to report — an e-mail sent to him through an intermediary by Pakistani opposition leader Benazir Bhutto complaining about her security. Conditions of use: only if she were killed.

Bhutto, who was assassinated on Thursday, wrote to Blitzer that if anything happened to her, "I would hold (Pakistani President Pervez) Musharraf responsible."

Blitzer received the e-mail on Oct. 26 from Mark Siegel, a friend and longtime Washington spokesman for Bhutto. That was eight days after she narrowly escaped another attempt at her life.

Bhutto wrote to Blitzer that "I have been made to feel insecure by his (Musharraf's) minions," that specific improvements had not been made to her security arrangements, and that the Pakistani leader was responsible.

Blitzer agreed to the conditions before receiving the e-mail. He said Friday that he called Siegel shortly after seeing it to see if there was any way he could use it on CNN, but was told firmly it could only be used if she were killed. Siegel couldn't say why she had insisted on those conditions.

Blitzer reported on the e-mail late Thursday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071228/ap_en_ot/bhutto_blitzer;_ylt=A9G_R3r15HVHT2YAMxq2GL8C

TGN 1 'Warren Buffet' 0

[elsid13]

Holding Musharraf responsible doesn't mean he did it. She also provide a list of names that she thought would be behind that plot. Most likely it was element of Musharraf intelligence agency, extremist and Al Qaeda working together.

[cutthemdown]

Yeah I believe it. I don't trust Mushareff. His main thing is keeping power not doing what is best to fight the war on terror. He does fight but IMO it's only token moves meant to appease Washington. Washington would like to see him do more but is scared to death of some Islamic radical taking over.

I think Mushareff figured all I have to do is nothing and she will get killed. So many extremist had already called for her death it was a no brainer they would try. I doubt even our secret service could protect someone in that environment.

IMO we should start going across the border ourselves to attack taliban and al queda. I think this would force Mushareff to do more himself.

What a total cluster**** this whole mess is but I just can't see the do nothing approach working.

[alkemical]

yeah i mean - with bhutto - her trust in US backed leaders (of pakistan) has done well for her family - what happened to her dad - happened to her.

[Spider]

I am telling you guys , it is the Clintons fault ....... W*GS get in here and help me out on this

[Bronco Bob]

I am telling you guys , it is the Clintons fault ....... W*GS get in here and help me out on this

Spider, why are you being so silly about this? Very strange.

[Bronco Bob]

Yeah I believe it. I don't trust Mushareff. His main thing is keeping power not doing what is best to fight the war on terror. He does fight but IMO it's only token moves meant to appease Washington. Washington would like to see him do more but is scared to death of some Islamic radical taking over.

I think Mushareff figured all I have to do is nothing and she will get killed. So many extremist had already called for her death it was a no brainer they would try. I doubt even our secret service could protect someone in that environment.

IMO we should start going across the border ourselves to attack taliban and al queda. I think this would force Mushareff to do more himself.

What a total cluster**** this whole mess is but I just can't see the do nothing approach working.

I think you have pretty well nailed the situation.

[cutthemdown]

yeah i mean - with bhutto - her trust in US backed leaders (of pakistan) has done well for her family - what happened to her dad - happened to her.

Her family believed in democracy in a part of the world it doesn't go over well. Same thing also happened to her brother. Very sad but in a way she becomes a powerful martyr now but her party needs someone to step. Really though who has the balls, or the charisma to do it?

[cutthemdown]

I never really gave Bhutto much thought. So many world leaders it's hard to really follow them all and have an opinion. Now that she is gone and I am hearing more about her life I feel like she was a remarkable lady. To do what she did being a women in a part of the world where men don't want to follow women is amazing.

[Spider]

Spider, why are you being so silly about this? Very strange.
you think Hillary is innocent ?

[TBD]

Check minutes 6:10–6:15 where Bhutto describes a man named Omar Sheik
as the man who killed Osama Bin Ladin. That alone would get you killed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIO8B6fpFSQ&eurl=http://cadeveo.wordpress.com/2007/12/28/the-number-23-and-the-bhutto-assassination/

[W*GS]

Bhutto was also corrupt and venal. She was hardly pure and saintly.

[Bronco Bob]

you think Hillary is innocent ?

Of course. What a stupid question. Are you supposed to be playing Barack Obama or what?

[Spider]

Of course. What a stupid question. Are you supposed to be playing Barack Obama or what?

Barak is innocent , chances are Bill Gave Bhutto the high hard one and Hillary found out about it .......

[Bronco Bob]

Barak is innocent , chances are Bill Gave Bhutto the high hard one and Hillary found out about it .......

Let it go, Barack, let it go. In your heart you know you aren't ready
to be president yet, and that Hillary would make a much more
competent president.

[Spider]

Let it go, Barack, let it go. In your heart you know you aren't ready
to be president yet, and that Hillary would make a much more
competent president.

untill she PMS 's then what ?

[Bronco Bob]

untill she PMS 's then what ?

Barack, once again you are showing your youth and inexperience.
60 years old women are long past their little monthly friend.

[Spider]

Barack, once again you are showing your youth and inexperience.
60 years old women are long past their little monthly friend.

So she is a bitch all of the time with out that excuse .. no wonder Bill called her Attilia

[cutthemdown]

No way a woman can make it in politics without being a huge B I T C H!!!!!!!

[cutthemdown]

this is Ms Clintons new Campaigne button.

[Bronco Bob]

No way a woman can make it in politics without being a huge B I T C H!!!!!!!

If it was a man they'd be saying he was a tough, no nonsense leader.

[cutthemdown]

If it was a man they'd be saying he was a tough, no nonsense leader.

I agree and if it was a mule they would call it stubborn.

[Smiling Assassin27]

I never really gave Bhutto much thought. So many world leaders it's hard to really follow them all and have an opinion. Now that she is gone and I am hearing more about her life I feel like she was a remarkable lady. To do what she did being a women in a part of the world where men don't want to follow women is amazing.

Politically and as a statewoman, she was completely and totally overrated by the media. She was corrupt, accomplished nothing of worth while in office, an used her office as an avenue to enrich herself.

To put her 'accomplishments' in perspective, consider this: when Bhutto's first term began, Pakistani law punished women for getting raped. Bhutto did nothing to change this, nor did she do anything to improve education for women, increase female literacy, provide job opportunities for women, overturn repressive anti-female social customs or in general improve the status of Pakistani women in any way. Yet somehow she gets praised for being a 'feminist'.

On the other hand, Pervez Musharraf reversed the law punishing women for getting raped years ago, and he has relentlessly pushed for female education and literacy. Women in Pakistan are much better off under Musharraf than they ever were under Bhutto.

Yes, her murder was heinous and tragic, but let's not make her into some 'hero', 'martyr' or 'great statesman' just because she was assassinated. Truth is her administration was both corrupt and incompetent. That is why the Musharraf coup happened in the first place.

On the positive side, she was staunchly pro-life.

[cutthemdown]

Yeah I heard she had corruption problems. I was speaking more just how she got men to follow her someone in a part of the world that is tough to do.