KC QB of Future - Maybe not

[elsid13]

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) -- A bruised right hand may stop Brodie Croyle from playing against the New York Jets on Sunday, and concern is growing that Kansas City's strong-armed young quarterback might be too frail for the NFL.Croyle was listed as questionable after taking limited snaps in practice Wednesday. Veteran Damon Huard could start as the Chiefs (4-11) try to halt an eight-game losing streak in their season finale at Giants Stadium.

"He's a lot better than he was," coach Herm Edwards said. "He threw the ball a little bit. But he was limited. We'll see where he's at tomorrow."

Finding out if Croyle was the quarterback the team could start building around was one of Kansas City's goals this season. But he didn't play well enough in the preseason to beat out Huard. When he did become the starter after Huard was knocked woozy, he missed time with a deep bruise in his back.
It was a reputation for being injury prone that caused Croyle to drop to the third round of the 2006 draft. Now, although he has a strong arm and a quick release, his tendency to get hurt is causing the Chiefs to have second thoughts.

Will Kansas City use its first-round pick next April on a quarterback?

"That's something that's going to be decided in the offseason, when the draft's coming up," Edwards said. "Right now ... we feel like he could be a good quarterback for us. We drafted him. We want to develop him. He's still in that mode of being developed.

"His whole thing will be: Is he available? Your quarterback has to be available."

In eight games, including five starts during the Chiefs' ongoing skid, Croyle has hit 107 of 181 passes for 1,032 yards with five touchdowns and six interceptions, a rating of 70.5. Croyle has started five games and was 9-for-12 for 69 yards in Detroit last week, when he bruised his hand trying to stop a defender from running an interception in for a touchdown.

"He's gotten better," Edwards said. "He's done some things better, but he still has a long ways to go. You anticipate when you put a young quarterback in there that they're going to throw interceptions. They all do that."

At Alabama, Croyle was frequently injured, but still threw for 6,382 yards with 41 touchdowns and 22 interceptions for a 128.4 rating.

Evaluating his performance is also difficult because the offense overall has been so woeful. Larry Johnson, Kansas City's star running back, missed the entire second half of the season with a foot injury.

"We've got to build people around him, too," Edwards said. "We lost our running back. It's not an excuse. But when you get behind and have to throw the ball, it puts a lot of pressure on the quarterback, and that puts the quarterback in a bad light, too. There's a lot of things we've got to do to improve this football team."

Croyle was not the only starter hampered by injuries as the Chiefs prepared to put an end to their worst season in 20 years. Also limited in practice were left tackle Damion McIntosh, linebackers Donnie Edwards and Napoleon Harris, and wide receiver Eddie Kennison.

Kansas City added quarterback Jeff Otis to its practice squad on Wednesday and may promote quarterback David Green from the practice squad if Croyle is not able to play. Green was excused from practice to attend his grandmother's funeral.

Otis entered the NFL as a rookie free agent in 2006 with Arizona and was released before the start of that season. He led the Frankfurt Galaxy of NFL Europa to a World Bowl title in 2006 and attended training camp with Oakland in 2007. His father, Jim Otis, was a running back for Kansas City in 1971 and '72.

The Chiefs also said they had placed Johnson and cornerback Tyron Brackenridge on injured reserve and agreed to a three-year contract with tackle Travis Leffew and a one-year contract with linebacker Mickey Pimentel.

Pimentel, who originally joined Kansas City as a member of the practice squad on Dec. 12, was added to the 53-man roster.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3169162

[Orange_Beard]

Rub some dirt on it.

Really this was never a secret.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Hope they use that first round choice on Chad Henne.

[dsmoot]

I don't care who Herm's QB is. If the QB continues to take the abuse that Huard and Croyle has this year, the trainer will be the most important person in the organization. I don't know what people see in Herm Edwards as a Head Coach.

[Paladin]

Gosh. Hurt again? *sigh* We tried to tell them......

[Los Broncos]

Frail huh? What will his wife do if he cant play football.

[Paladin]

Frail huh? What will his wife do if he cant play football.

Lose him.

[Los Broncos]

Lose him.

So shes a whore, just in it for the money?

[KCStud]

KC will not draft a QB. Herm has already stated that.
And what do you expect from KC's OL? The OL is obviously the biggest problem. Trent got hurt because of poor blocking, Huard has been hurt most of this year because of poor blocking and so has Croyle.
Croyle has looked good when he has had time to make plays. We'll see what he can do when he actually has 3 seconds to make a play.
The same thing is happening to Cutler. His horrible performance of no TD's, 2 INT's and a 32.7 rating in SD was mainly because of poor blocking.

[Los Broncos]

KC will not draft a QB. Herm has already stated that.
And what do you expect from KC's OL? The OL is obviously the biggest problem. Trent got hurt because of poor blocking, Huard has been hurt most of this year because of poor blocking and so has Croyle.
Croyle has looked good when he has had time to make plays. We'll see what he can do when he actually has 3 seconds to make a play.
The same thing is happening to Cutler. His horrible performance of no TD's, 2 INT's and a 32.7 rating in SD was mainly because of poor blocking.

KC will use those picks for o-line im assuming?

[ward63]

I hope you're not comparing Cutler to Broil KC

[KCStud]

KC will use those picks for o-line im assuming?

Yes. Herm has already stated his plans for the team. He wants to build around Croyle. Hopefully KC gets the perfect OL for their type of offense in the draft, Jake Long

[KCStud]

I hope you're not comparing Cutler to Broil KC

Not comparing them at all. It's very clear that both QB's would look much better if they had a good line to protect them. Both have good weapons. Croyle has Bowe, Gonzo and a good running duo of LJ and Smith while Cutler has a good RB system, Marshall, Walker, Stokely and Scheffler

[yavoon]

Yes. Herm has already stated his plans for the team. He wants to build around Croyle. Hopefully KC gets the perfect OL for their type of offense in the draft, Jake Long

what herm really needs is an option qb, maybe that kid from navy? then the qb could split some of the 550 carries that herm wants to run the ball w/ the rb instead of just riding LJ like a rented mule again.

[DHallblows]

what herm really needs is an option qb, maybe that kid from navy? then the qb could split some of the 550 carries that herm wants to run the ball w/ the rb instead of just riding LJ like a rented mule again.

Seems a little redundant to me hahaha

But yeah that'd probably work. Not to bad of an idea...

[Inkana7]

Hell, I could have told you that before he was drafted.

[MechanicalBull]

KC fans meet your new starting QB. Champ won't be able to pick off his passes because they are always 2 yd screen plays.

http://www.newyorkjets.com/image_assets/978/pennington_chad.jpg

[bfoflcommish]

KC will not draft a QB. Herm has already stated that.
And what do you expect from KC's OL? The OL is obviously the biggest problem. Trent got hurt because of poor blocking, Huard has been hurt most of this year because of poor blocking and so has Croyle.
Croyle has looked good when he has had time to make plays. We'll see what he can do when he actually has 3 seconds to make a play.
The same thing is happening to Cutler. His horrible performance of no TD's, 2 INT's and a 32.7 rating in SD was mainly because of poor blocking.

Cutler got hurt?????

might want to read what the thread was about in the first place.

[Kaylore]

Brodie Frayle.

[KCStud]

Brodie Frayle.

ha at least Croyle didn't have a 32 QB rating..LMAO

[Florida_Bronco]

ha at least Croyle didn't have a 32 QB rating..LMAO

Thats the best you got?

[Kaylore]

ha at least Croyle didn't have a 32 QB rating..LMAO

Are you this stupid? Seriously?

Croyle has posted a QB rating all the way down into the teens. Even with the SD game brining his stats down, Cutler still has a much higher rating than Croyle. and at least Cutler had the balls to play through his injuries unlike your Porceline Dynamite QB.

"I have a bruise on my back, Whadya think?!?"

[KCStud]

[QUOTE=Florida_Bronco;1830612]Thats the best you got?[/QUOTE

If by facts, then yes. It's funny that you laugh at Croyle for getting injured because of his size, but yet QB's like Trent Green and Damon Huard are bigger than Croyle and got hurt with the same OL

[Florida_Bronco]

[QUOTE=Florida_Bronco;1830612]Thats the best you got?[/QUOTE

If by facts, then yes. It's funny that you laugh at Croyle for getting injured because of his size, but yet QB's like Trent Green and Damon Huard are bigger than Croyle and got hurt with the same OL

Too easy...way too easy.

[KCStud]

Are you this stupid? Seriously?

Croyle has posted a QB rating all the way down into the teens. Even with the SD game brining his stats down, Cutler still has a much higher rating than Croyle. and at least Cutler had the balls to play through his injuries unlike your Porceline Dynamite QB.

"I have a bruise on my back, Whadya think?!?"

Croyle is playing this week you dumbass..there goes that argument

[Kaylore]

If by facts, then yes. It's funny that you laugh at Croyle for getting injured because of his size, but yet QB's like Trent Green and Damon Huard are bigger than Croyle and got hurt with the same OL

Trent Green is ancient. He already had a concussion before and had one down in Miami too. Damon Huard sucks.

Frayle was a question mark in terms of his durability coming out of college. You think telling us all that it's all your crappy o-line's fault is some kind of comeback? Either way your QB is going to die. Whether it's because of the line or his own fragility is irrelevant.

Brodie Frayle indeed.

[KCStud]

[QUOTE=KCStud;1830620]

Too easy...way too easy.

what are you two butt buddies? I you guys support ole mile high err I mean brokeback mountain...

[Kaylore]

Croyle is playing this week you dumbass..there goes that argument

Yeah his playing this week negates my argument that he spent the last several games nursing his wife's boobies while Cutler took a helmet to the knee and was back the following game without missing a practice. Yup you showed me. ::)

what are you two butt buddies? I guess this is brokeback mountain we're talking about...

Oh yay! Gay jokes! I'll accept that as your admission that you are completely outclassed in this discussion and therefore surrender.

[KCStud]

Trent Green is ancient. He already had a concussion before and had one down in Miami too. Damon Huard sucks.

Frayle was a question mark in terms of his durability coming out of college. You think telling us all that it's all your crappy o-line's fault is some kind of comeback? Either way your QB is going to die. Whether it's because of the line or his own fragility is irrelevant.

Brodie Frayle indeed.

Trent was just fine going into the 06 opener. Hadn't been injured for quite awhile, mainly because of his OL. Nice job avoiding the Huard by just saying he sucks. Wow I guess you know the future...please tell us more miss cleo...how bout those lottery numbers

[KCStud]

Yeah his playing this week negates my argument that he spent the last several games nursing his wife's boobies while Cutler took a helmet to the knee and was back the following game without missing a practice. Yup you showed me. ::)



Oh yay! Gay jokes! I'll accept that as your admission that you are completely outclassed in this discussion and therefore surrender.

Croyle has been playing while Cutler was being dissed like a school boy bitch by Rivers

[Florida_Bronco]

Trent was just fine going into the 06 opener. Hadn't been injured for quite awhile

And Croyle was constantly injured in college...whats your point? ???

[Florida_Bronco]

Jay Cutler - 15 starts 271/430 3,251 yards 18 tds 14 ints 86.5 rating in Mike Shanahan's complicated west coast offense.

Brodie Croyle - 5 starts 107/181 1,032 yards 5 tds 6 ints 70.5 rating in Herm Edwards dumbed down offense.

One of these players started every game this season, threw for over 3000 yards and 18 touchdowns...

...the other threw more interceptions than touchdowns.

Shall we continue?

[crazyhorse]

Jay Cutler - 15 starts 271/430 3,251 yards 18 tds 14 ints 86.5 rating in Mike Shanahan's complicated west coast offense.

Brodie Croyle - 5 starts 107/181 1,032 yards 5 tds 6 ints 70.5 rating in Herm Edwards dumbed down offense.

One of these players started every game this season, threw for over 3000 yards and 18 touchdowns...

...the other threw more interceptions than touchdowns.

Shall we continue?

Um Planny runs one of the most dumbed down offenses in the NFL. Complicated is an over statement.

Carry on.

[elsid13]

Um Planny runs one of the most dumbed down offenses in the NFL. Complicated is an over statement.

Carry on.

What are you talking about??? It been stated by players, other coaches and TV annoucers that Shanahan offense and game plans are some of the most complicated in NFL. I know that most chef's fan think that all there is to the Broncos offense is the nake bootleg, because your team can't stop that play, but this is the weakest troll smack I have seen you post in awhile.

[Northman]

Hope they use that first round choice on Chad Henne.

LOL Ha!

[crazyhorse]

What are you talking about??? It been stated by players, other coaches and TV annoucers that Shanahan offense and game plans are some of the most complicated in NFL. I know that most chef's fan think that all there is to the Broncos offense is the nake bootleg, because your team can't stop that play, but this is the weakest troll smack I have seen you post in awhile.

No smack.

You can say what you want. But the Donks offense is not complicated. They run the same few plays over and over. Hard to stop (in the past), but simple. There's nothing wrong with that approach. But dont fool yourself.

Understand that you are talking to a fan that has watched one of the truely more complicated offenses in the league in recent past. No I didn't hear that from an announcer. I watched it for myself.

[Mediator12]

No smack.

You can say what you want. But the Donks offense is not complicated. They run the same few plays over and over. Hard to stop (in the past), but simple. There's nothing wrong with that approach. But dont fool yourself.

Understand that you are talking to a fan that has watched one of the truely more complicated offenses in the league in recent past. No I didn't hear that from an announcer. I watched it for myself.

And still, you could not be more wrong. Shanahan's offense is one of the most complicated designs in the NFL because you have to be able to run the same type of plays from different looks and be able to adjust on the fly. As a fan, you might not think that is a big deal, but with all the exactness that the players have to execute, it is more demanding than it looks.

Saunders had an enormous amount of shifting and hefty playbook, but the presnap stuff has nothing to do with being complicated. His running scheme was much more simple than DEN's and his passing attack was predicated on involving the TE and RB's more than WR's. Complexity at that level is not always what Fans can see.

[crazyhorse]

And still, you could not be more wrong. Shanahan's offense is one of the most complicated designs in the NFL because you have to be able to run the same type of plays from different looks and be able to adjust on the fly. As a fan, you might not think that is a big deal, but with all the exactness that the players have to execute, it is more demanding than it looks.

Saunders had an enormous amount of shifting and hefty playbook, but the presnap stuff has nothing to do with being complicated. His running scheme was much more simple than DEN's and his passing attack was predicated on involving the TE and RB's more than WR's. Complexity at that level is not always what Fans can see.

Ridiculous.

The same plays, from different positions is still the same plays over and over. The fact you run them from different formations doesn't make it tougher than running different plays from different formations. When you run the same stuff over and over it makes it simpler, not tougher.

While I can apprectiate the complexities of any NFL playbook, that doesn't make Shannys playbook more complicated in comparison to some of the other NFL teams. In fact, the Chiefs have condensed thier playbook because it was near impossible to get young recievers involved in the game because it takes a couple years for them to get comfortable with the offense. Discarding it as simply pre snap stuff is incorrect.

I will conceed the run offense of the Broncos is more complex. But run offense isn't rocket science in the 1st place.

[400HZ]

KC will not draft a QB. Herm has already stated that. And what do you expect from KC's OL? The OL is obviously the biggest problem. Trent got hurt because of poor blocking, Huard has been hurt most of this year because of poor blocking and so has Croyle.
Croyle has looked good when he has had time to make plays. We'll see what he can do when he actually has 3 seconds to make a play.
The same thing is happening to Cutler. His horrible performance of no TD's, 2 INT's and a 32.7 rating in SD was mainly because of poor blocking.

!Booya! :yayaya: :egbgb: ^5 :thumbsup:

[elsid13]

Ridiculous.

The same plays, from different positions is still the same plays over and over. The fact you run them from different formations doesn't make it tougher than running different plays from different formations. When you run the same stuff over and over it makes it simpler, not tougher.

While I can apprectiate the complexities of any NFL playbook, that doesn't make Shannys playbook more complicated in comparison to some of the other NFL teams. In fact, the Chiefs have condensed thier playbook because it was near impossible to get young recievers involved in the game because it takes a couple years for them to get comfortable with the offense. Discarding it as simply pre snap stuff is incorrect.

I will conceed the run offense of the Broncos is more complex. But run offense isn't rocket science in the 1st place.

Denver is running the WCO offense with Shanahan power zone blocking running scheme. The WCO is by far the most complex offense out there. At it heart the WCO requires precious timing, multi-receiver outlets and quick analysis of the what the defense is going to do based upon the offense formation and down and distance. If you want be bullish that fine, but when HOFs (Young, Elway) state that it take 3 plus year to learn it you have idea that it isn't simple.

[crazyhorse]

Denver is running the WCO offense with Shanahan power zone blocking running scheme. The WCO is by far the most complex offense out there. At it heart the WCO requires precious timing, multi-receiver outlets and quick analysis of the what the defense is going to do based upon the offense formation and down and distance. If you want be bullish that fine, but when HOFs (Young, Elway) state that it take 3 plus year to learn it you have idea that it isn't simple.

Okee Dokee.

The WCO is a dink and dunk high percentage passing offense. What does high percentage mean to you? Come on now.

[Inkana7]

Croyle has been playing while Cutler was being dissed like a school boy b**** by Rivers

Croyle doesn't warrant any trash-talking. They say you have to win to be able to talk. Well, you also have to be mediocre to be talked to. Otherwise it's just like kicking a retard when they're down.

[-Slap-]

He can't even spell "Brody" correctly.

[elsid13]

Okee Dokee.

The WCO is a dink and dunk high percentage passing offense. What does high percentage mean to you? Come on now.

High percentage means a successful QB. Evidently completing less then 50% of your passes is what make a good KC QB the days.

And just so you know the offense that KC is based upon the same principles as the WCO.

[crazyhorse]

High percentage means a successful QB. Evidently completing less then 50% of your passes is what make a good KC QB the days.

And just so you know the offense that KC is based upon the same principles as the WCO.

This post hurt your arguement, IMO

[Inkana7]

This post hurt your arguement, IMO

This reply says you have no argument, IMO

[crazyhorse]

This reply says you have no argument, IMO

There was no accuracy to his post. I could have flamed him. But instead took the high road.

The high percentage passing game that is the West coast offense is not "high percentage because of the QB". It's high percentage because you use plays that have a high percentage of success. Like short quick passes. Cutting down on the low pecentage plays.

Further, KCs offense has not been "based" in the WCO. It is a variation of the Don Coryell offense.

I simply said the post hurt his arguement, because it was based in ignorance, and had no value to the football discussion.

Do you have any value you would like to add? Or are you in the same boat?

[elsid13]

I didn't say that KC offense was based upon WCO, I stated that they have the same principle in place. Both seek use a control timed passing game to move the ball. It also dependent on all parties being in right place at right time!

BTW the founder of your offense is Sid Gillman, Coryell and his assistants like Gibbs/Zampese added to it, but you really should give credit to the gandfather.

This is quot from Martz (and decent article about your offense)

"It's such a timing-oriented system. You want to get the ball downfield, yes, but you want to get it out quickly, and the timing portion is critical. There are no shades of gray. You've got to run in and out of your breaks -- boom, like that -- and you've got to be exactly where you're supposed to be." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/dr_z/news/1999/10/28/inside_football/

[elsid13]

Just to add to the discussion:

Potbelly article on the subject http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html
http://espn.go.com/classic/obit/s/2003/0103/1486725.html

The basic principle are to use the pass (both vertical (KC) and horizontally (WCO/Denver) to up the running lanes. Don't confuse tactics with underlying guiding theories

[crazyhorse]

I didn't say that KC offense was based upon WCO, I stated that they have the same principle in place. Both seek use a control timed passing game to move the ball. It also dependent on all parties being in right place at right time!

BTW the founder of your offense is Sid Gillman, Coryell and his assistants like Gibbs/Zampese added to it, but you really should give credit to the gandfather.

This is quot from Martz (and decent article about your offense)

"It's such a timing-oriented system. You want to get the ball downfield, yes, but you want to get it out quickly, and the timing portion is critical. There are no shades of gray. You've got to run in and out of your breaks -- boom, like that -- and you've got to be exactly where you're supposed to be." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/dr_z/news/1999/10/28/inside_football/

I agree. All offenses use timing paterns.

I dont see how that translates into the Broncos playbook being one of the most complicated in the NFL.

The Broncos, for several seasons have used a dumbed down version of thier own playbook. They did it for Plummer, and it looks like the same plays and the same offense today with Cutler running it.

Even if the Broncos did have one of the most complicated playbooks in the NFL, they certainly dont have currently.

Listen friend, I have been watching the Broncos and the Chiefs play football for many years. Let's say for arguements sake that the WCO is the most complicated offense ever developed in te history of the NFL. That does not mean the Broncos are using the full version of it. The Broncos run the same plays over and over. They have one of the least complicated playbooks in the NFL.

I cant tell you how many times I have read on this very board how fans think Shanny should open up the playbook.

With due respect, I should tell you now, you wont convince me how much more complicated the Denver offense is than other teams. I have watched it for years. It's simply not that complicated or diverse.

[elsid13]

I agree. All offenses use timing paterns.

I dont see how that translates into the Broncos playbook being one of the most complicated in the NFL.

The Broncos, for several seasons have used a dumbed down version of thier own playbook. They did it for Plummer, and it looks like the same plays and the same offense today with Cutler running it.

Even if the Broncos did have one of the most complicated playbooks in the NFL, they certainly dont have currently.

Listen friend, I have been watching the Broncos and the Chiefs play football for many years. Let's say for arguements sake that the WCO is the most complicated offense ever developed in te history of the NFL. That does not mean the Broncos are using the full version of it. The Broncos run the same plays over and over. They have one of the least complicated playbooks in the NFL.

I cant tell you how many times I have read on this very board how fans think Shanny should open up the playbook.

With due respect, I should tell you now, you wont convince me how much more complicated the Denver offense is than other teams. I have watched it for years. It's simply not that complicated or diverse.

I understand you've made up your mind, all I can do is present addtional information. Just play the first minute or so and listen to Jaws BTW, most fans on the internet message board have no clue what open up the offense means....

<embed src="http://xml.truveo.com/eb/i/444783217/a/4c86ff7dda1f7b769d520f50a4658f1d/p/1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width=" 425" height=" 350"></embed><div style="background-color:#315270; width:425px; height:14px;text-align:center;"><a href="http://www.truveo.com/" target="_blank" style="font-family:Arial; font-size:9px; font-weight:100; color:#C7D8E7;line-height:14px; text-decoration:none; letter-spacing:0.1em;">Find more videos like this on www.truveo.com.</a></div>

[crazyhorse]

I understand you've made up your mind, all I can do is present addtional information. Just play the first minute or so and listen to Jaws BTW, most fans on the internet message board have no clue what open up the offense means....

<embed src="http://xml.truveo.com/eb/i/444783217/a/4c86ff7dda1f7b769d520f50a4658f1d/p/1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width=" 425" height=" 350"></embed><div style="background-color:#315270; width:425px; height:14px;text-align:center;"><a href="http://www.truveo.com/" target="_blank" style="font-family:Arial; font-size:9px; font-weight:100; color:#C7D8E7;line-height:14px; text-decoration:none; letter-spacing:0.1em;">Find more videos like this on www.truveo.com.</a></div>

I am of the opinion that all offenses are complex. They can all be condensed as well. When you compare the offense run by the Broncos and the 31 other NFL teams, I'm saying that the Broncos is not the MOST complicated.

For the record Dick Vermiel said your offense was simple. Not very many plays. Same stuff over and over. After he said that, I watched to see if it was true. It was. He said that 5 years ago. For the last 5 years, your offense has been the same.