View Full Version : Money Says Harris will start before the End
rugbythug
12-16-2007, 12:10 PM
We need to see what we have. Harris will start before this season is over.
RhymesayersDU
12-16-2007, 12:29 PM
Who?
Ray Finkle
12-16-2007, 12:48 PM
ewww....
TheChamp24
12-16-2007, 01:00 PM
To be honest, I agree. Start him at RT and show Pears to start actually blocking people and not just stand out there for ****ts and giggles.
ozomulsion
12-16-2007, 01:00 PM
spuuu?
Kaylore
12-16-2007, 01:36 PM
It's possible. No one outside the team really knows how he's doing. If he's showing promise than he might get some time. If he's still struggling then the last thing they're going to do is risk further injury on Cutler.
We should get a tackle in the 1st regardless. Then we should also get Cousins and Zuttah. Even if Harris does OK, 2 games is not enough to really be sold on this guy. For one, Im wary he is going to consistently have injury problems. This is from a Cubs fan who saw the Cubs waste two seasons banking on Wood and Prior to be healthy. It would be a mistake to make any big assumptions on Harris' play over 2 games.
We better see what we have with him because if we don't, the coaching staff is already letting us know.
You all know how I feel. I've stated over and over.
Gross, 1st round OT. I don't care if thats a lot of resources, Cutler deserves a chance to have a good line and throw the ball.
Then you hope to god that Javon gets healthy and we can sign Corey Williams.
Polster60
12-16-2007, 03:25 PM
I want Oher!!!! The guy is a man child. If he is in our range you have to consider him in the first.
Ray Finkle
12-16-2007, 04:02 PM
We better see what we have with him because if we don't, the coaching staff is already letting us know.
You all know how I feel. I've stated over and over.
Gross, 1st round OT. I don't care if thats a lot of resources, Cutler deserves a chance to have a good line and throw the ball.
Then you hope to god that Javon gets healthy and we can sign Corey Williams.
Gross is overrated and you're going to have to either trade picks or offer him LT money for a RT....Let the Skins cut Samuels and get him.
Gross is overrated and you're going to have to either trade picks or offer him LT money for a RT....Let the Skins cut Samuels and get him.
1. How do you figure he is overated? He seems pretty highly regarded from most media outlets. Do you know something they don't?
2. Why would we have to trade picks? You assume that Carolina will transition tag him?
3. We would have to pay him some money. Starters, especially good young one's don't work for free. Besides, would it kill us to offer Daniel Graham type money for a John Tait type player who fits our system?
You are talking about overated and then you point out Samuels as the guy we should target? Is there a more overated player at a position?
Ray Finkle
12-16-2007, 04:28 PM
1. How do you figure he is overated? He seems pretty highly regarded from most media outlets. Do you know something they don't?
2. Why would we have to trade picks? You assume that Carolina will transition tag him?
3. We would have to pay him some money. Starters, especially good young one's don't work for free. Besides, would it kill us to offer Daniel Graham type money for a John Tait type player who fits our system?
You are talking about overated and then you point out Samuels as the guy we should target? Is there a more overated player at a position?
1. I watch the Carolina games when they are on. Ask a Panthers fan about what they think of Gross.....
2. Why wouldn't you slap tags on players to get picks....
3. With holes at DT, LB, and S. OL can be addressed in the draft, instead of overpaying for Gross.....
4. Samuels would cost less the Gross and do pretty well at RT.
Requiem
12-16-2007, 04:51 PM
Isn't Gross playing G this year>
eddie mac
12-16-2007, 04:59 PM
I doubt the Panthers will be tagging anyone this offseason with them having only $6m in cap space and only 35 players under contract.
Ray Finkle
12-16-2007, 05:00 PM
Isn't Gross playing G this year>
I think he played it for a short period but he is a RT.
dsmoot
12-16-2007, 06:15 PM
It's possible. No one outside the team really knows how he's doing. If he's showing promise than he might get some time. If he's still struggling then the last thing they're going to do is risk further injury on Cutler.
It would be nice to see Harris but I agree that Cutler's well being is most important. I find it interesting that we don't hear much feedback on how some of these players are progressing.
Ray Finkle
12-16-2007, 06:59 PM
It would be nice to see Harris but I agree that Cutler's well being is most important. I find it interesting that we don't hear much feedback on how some of these players are progressing.
never do with Oline in Denver.....
Case in point listed, Carolina has a few people coming out as UDFA and Gross i just one of them with 6 million dollars to play with. They want Gross, probably won't get Gross. I doubt they transition him though. Teams just don't use that very much.
Samuels sucks. Might as well not sign anybody at all over Lepsis if that is your solution. Samuels has underachieved since coming into the league. Decisions like the cheaper option is the exact problem that I with our front office. We are afraid to spend money on the OLine through FA or the draft. Time pony up and put some players out there. Cutler deserves it.
Ray Finkle
12-16-2007, 09:50 PM
Case in point listed, Carolina has a few people coming out as UDFA and Gross i just one of them with 6 million dollars to play with. They want Gross, probably won't get Gross. I doubt they transition him though. Teams just don't use that very much.
Samuels sucks. Might as well not sign anybody at all over Lepsis if that is your solution. Samuels has underachieved since coming into the league. Decisions like the cheaper option is the exact problem that I with our front office. We are afraid to spend money on the OLine through FA or the draft. Time pony up and put some players out there. Cutler deserves it.
Having to watch the Skins a lot (wife is a Skins fan)....I think in Denver's Zone Blocking Scheme, Samuels could be productive....
SureShot
12-16-2007, 09:59 PM
Gross held Kerney, who's on fire as of late to 6 tackles 0 sacks today. I would pay him to play RT.
Ray Finkle
12-16-2007, 10:01 PM
Case in point listed, Carolina has a few people coming out as UDFA and Gross i just one of them with 6 million dollars to play with. They want Gross, probably won't get Gross. I doubt they transition him though. Teams just don't use that very much.
Samuels sucks. Might as well not sign anybody at all over Lepsis if that is your solution. Samuels has underachieved since coming into the league. Decisions like the cheaper option is the exact problem that I with our front office. We are afraid to spend money on the OLine through FA or the draft. Time pony up and put some players out there. Cutler deserves it.
with the Cap #, every year the Skins are 20 Million over the cap....they always find ways....
rugbythug
12-16-2007, 10:17 PM
Case in point listed, Carolina has a few people coming out as UDFA and Gross i just one of them with 6 million dollars to play with. They want Gross, probably won't get Gross. I doubt they transition him though. Teams just don't use that very much.
Samuels sucks. Might as well not sign anybody at all over Lepsis if that is your solution. Samuels has underachieved since coming into the league. Decisions like the cheaper option is the exact problem that I with our front office. We are afraid to spend money on the OLine through FA or the draft. Time pony up and put some players out there. Cutler deserves it.
BPC Has Denver ever done anything right? Lepsis has been great up until this season. Why would they go out and sign a big money LT when they did not need one. Plus you know the broncos never spending any money on players
kappys
12-17-2007, 12:24 AM
Our O-line isn't really the big problem on this team. Pears sucks, I'll give you that. So lets see what we have in the kid and if nothing go out and get a decent tackle. I don't like Chris Samuels that much, but even a modest upgrade over Pears will pay big dividends. When you offense doesn't have the ball it can't score. We need to keep working on the Defense first. Get Jay Cutler 2-3 more drives again even with the same Oline and watch the difference in points scored.
wabbit
12-17-2007, 12:39 AM
Harris will get more than a few reps because the coaches want to get a look at him under game conditions.
If they still had a shot at the play-offs, he would probably sit for the most part...barring injury.
Now, they'll get a chance to take a good look.
I know Dennison really likes his technique...we'll see.
Our O-line isn't really the big problem on this team. Pears sucks, I'll give you that. So lets see what we have in the kid and if nothing go out and get a decent tackle. I don't like Chris Samuels that much, but even a modest upgrade over Pears will pay big dividends. When you offense doesn't have the ball it can't score. We need to keep working on the Defense first. Get Jay Cutler 2-3 more drives again even with the same Oline and watch the difference in points scored.
OT is a real problem between Pears and Lepsis. BIG problem.
Our O-line isn't really the big problem on this team. Pears sucks, I'll give you that. So lets see what we have in the kid and if nothing go out and get a decent tackle. I don't like Chris Samuels that much, but even a modest upgrade over Pears will pay big dividends. When you offense doesn't have the ball it can't score. We need to keep working on the Defense first. Get Jay Cutler 2-3 more drives again even with the same Oline and watch the difference in points scored.
No, our offensive tackle problem is probably the biggest problem. Both suck. And Ryan Harris has Mark Prior written all over him except for the fact that we dont even know if Harris is good. Whatever he can give us should be a bonus but not something we're banking on.
BroncoInferno
12-17-2007, 10:40 AM
OT is a real problem between Pears and Lepsis. BIG problem.
Lepsis was one of the best RTs in the league. He did very well at LT for a couple of seasons, but it looks like to knee injury has hurt his ability against speed rushers. I say move him back to RT and get a new LT. It's going to be be very difficult to replace both starters, and there is little chance a rookie OT would ever start on this team given the complexity of the scheme. That isn't to say we shouldn't draft one in the 1st, but don't expect him him to step in right away if we do.
Beantown Bronco
12-17-2007, 10:58 AM
(Not that I am in any way hoping for this, but) If the Broncos lose the next two, they could easily trade down a few or even several slots and take either one of these elite OT prospects (both are slated to go in the second half of round one), while at the same time re-gaining some lost draft picks. Both are road graders and both could be superb long term answers at right tackle:
Jeff Otah
Gosder Cherilus
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html
I don't know much about Otah, other than what the traditional scouting sites have been reporting, but I've seen a lot of Cherilus and he has been superb at both run blocking and pass blocking in his career at BC. I wouldn't be opposed at all to bringing him in.
Traveler
12-17-2007, 11:09 AM
Protecting Cutler should be a priority. Pears and Lepsis aren't providing the protection Cutler needs for differing reasons.
I'd love to view tape on Pears at LT in 2006 compared to his work at RT this season. Was he as bad last season as he is thus far this season? He is getting beat by both speed and power. I wonder if he is better suited for LT..... as a backup?
Lepsis is on his last leg -literally- and would be one the team might cut bait with. I don't think he is sufficiently healed from his surgery and his best years are probably behind him.
Which brings us to Harris. I like to see what he brings to the table. Supposed offensive guru Charlie Weis swears Harris is a true LT. The team should take the last the remaining games to get him some live action.
That goes against my first statement of protecting Cutler should be the priority. But, how else are we going to find out about Harris?
Stormontheplains
12-17-2007, 11:26 AM
Guys the steel of the draft if he declares in Phil Loadholt out of oklahoma. @ 6-7 350, great basketball player with good feet, would be there for 10 years. You can fit 4 dends in his wingspan.
Atlas
12-17-2007, 11:28 AM
It's possible. No one outside the team really knows how he's doing. If he's showing promise than he might get some time. If he's still struggling then the last thing they're going to do is risk further injury on Cutler.
He must be doing fairly well because he has been activated for almost every game.
Atlas
12-17-2007, 11:30 AM
Protecting Cutler should be a priority. Pears and Lepsis aren't providing the protection Cutler needs for differing reasons.
I'd love to view tape on Pears at LT in 2006 compared to his work at RT this season. Was he as bad last season as he is thus far this season? He is getting beat by both speed and power. I wonder if he is better suited for LT..... as a backup?
Lepsis is on his last leg -literally- and would be one the team might cut bait with. I don't think he is sufficiently healed from his surgery and his best years are probably behind him.
Which brings us to Harris. I like to see what he brings to the table. Supposed offensive guru Charlie Weis swears Harris is a true LT. The team should take the last the remaining games to get him some live action.
That goes against my first statement of protecting Cutler should be the priority. But, how else are we going to find out about Harris?
I don't think Lepsis is going anywhere. He is only one year removed from a serious leg injury, he will be better next year, that being said he still has played better than Pears. If the Broncos are looking to replace anyone along the O line it will be him.
Traveler
12-17-2007, 11:34 AM
Guys the steel of the draft if he declares in Phil Loadholt out of oklahoma. @ 6-7 350, great basketball player with good feet, would be there for 10 years. You can fit 4 dends in his wingspan.
Sounds like a great basketball player, but, can he play football?
Stormontheplains
12-17-2007, 11:38 AM
Sounds like a great basketball player, but, can he play football?
The two years we had him his blocking % was 99%, @oklahoma he hasn't allowed a sack all season. The basketball reference was to his footwork, whick is key in being a left tackle.
Lepsis was one of the best RTs in the league. He did very well at LT for a couple of seasons, but it looks like to knee injury has hurt his ability against speed rushers. I say move him back to RT and get a new LT. It's going to be be very difficult to replace both starters, and there is little chance a rookie OT would ever start on this team given the complexity of the scheme. That isn't to say we shouldn't draft one in the 1st, but don't expect him him to step in right away if we do.
I don't really have a problem with Lepsis's run blocking but more his pass blocking. He has lost a lot of strength in his legs, he doesn't punch DE's anymore and he is getting beat by both speed and physical pass rushers. Physical DE's are really getting bad, just walking him back to the QB because it looks like he lacks strength in his legs to hunker down and lock out now.
Kaylore brought up a point about switching him to the RT. I'm okay with that to a point. As mentioned above, he is having significant problem with physical power rushers. That is all he would face at RT most of the time.
First of all, we need to take care of his cap # which will be the 2nd highest on our roster next year. He isn't worth that.
We'll see... i know one thing, we need some guys that can play at tackle. I don't know if that is Matt Lepsis anymore, I don't know if that is Ryan Harris yet and I definitely know that isn't Erik Pears.
We have a lot of questions and no answers for our franchise QB. We need to make some tough decisions and get some solutions in here.
Sounds like a great basketball player, but, can he play football?
Seriously, the guy looks as big as Jonathan Ogden on the field. He's huge. I haven't watched enough of him to say how he will play as a pro but you have such an advantage when you are that big and that strong.
Traveler
12-17-2007, 01:23 PM
Seriously, the guy looks as big as Jonathan Ogden on the field. He's huge. I haven't watched enough of him to say how he will play as a pro but you have such an advantage when you are that big and that strong.
But does he fit our zone run blocking scheme? I'm all for adding power and beef to the line. And the team has made no mention of going to another scheme.
My concern then becomes, should we be able to get this guy, will he fit in with what we do along the OLine? Or will he be the second coming of George Foster. Remember, he was supposed to have great feet too.
I never questioned Foster's feet. I questioned his heart. Did he have the gumption to shut his guy down and be a dominator for the whole game? The difference between Foster being great and being what he is now is his attitude.
I don't have enough info Loadholt to say that yet but we can't be shy about drafting somebody high because of that aspect. We need to learn more about their personality and take that guy who can set the tempo.
Inkana7
12-17-2007, 04:26 PM
We have a very good chance of picking up a premier LT of the Future in this draft. It's just oozing with tackle talent. It's really amazing how many great ones there are. We can get a good one in the 2nd round, but I'd be all for using our 1st rounder on one like Otah.
SO its my day off and I just happen to have the OU/Miami game from earlier this year laying around my house so I pop it on... i want to see more of this Loadholt kid. Its a great gametape because he's almost exclusively lined up on Calais Campbell, another junior who is thinking about declaring early.
First off the guy is a monster on the field. 6'8", 350 lbs but he is cut right from our cloth of lineman. Slender, can move around, and he uses his hands really well.
Its amazing to watch his footwork. As with any big man, he doesn't have to be great in this area because one of his steps would equal 2.5 of Lepsis's steps. The guy steps back and he is in position. As that it, he has great technique. I would say better technique than that of Jeff Otah (I like the guy, I think hes going to be great but there is no doubt about it... he's still raw and its going to take longer for him to become a great pro.)
Loadholt brings a wallop when he comes through the line. He's good at downblocking and with his size, he can get movement at the LOS. His hands are good, he needs to be more of a knee bender because he is so angular.
The guy is still young... born in 1986 and he was actually raised in Colorado.
My only fear is if this guy comes out, he'll be getting serious consideration above us in the top ten. I think if a team is looking at Jake Long at LT... they will be more than tempted to take this guy in front of him. He has better long term potential for a team as a longdown LT.
dsmoot
12-17-2007, 07:54 PM
He must be doing fairly well because he has been activated for almost every game.
How many game reps has he had. That is all that counts.
dsmoot
12-17-2007, 08:00 PM
I never questioned Foster's feet. I questioned his heart. Did he have the gumption to shut his guy down and be a dominator for the whole game? The difference between Foster being great and being what he is now is his attitude.
I don't have enough info Loadholt to say that yet but we can't be shy about drafting somebody high because of that aspect. We need to learn more about their personality and take that guy who can set the tempo.
Couldn't you just look at how George carried himself and tell. There wasn't any fire there. Almost a blankness about him. You saw some effort at the first point of contact but no followup, no sustaining or aggressiveness. It was perplexing when you see a guy that big. I kept thinking, man if I was that size I could kick somebody around. No aggression from George.
rugbythug
12-17-2007, 08:23 PM
Couldn't you just look at how George carried himself and tell. There wasn't any fire there. Almost a blankness about him. You saw some effort at the first point of contact but no followup, no sustaining or aggressiveness. It was perplexing when you see a guy that big. I kept thinking, man if I was that size I could kick somebody around. No aggression from George.
he changed after he broke spicers leg
rovolution
12-17-2007, 08:31 PM
Couldn't you just look at how George carried himself and tell. There wasn't any fire there. Almost a blankness about him. You saw some effort at the first point of contact but no followup, no sustaining or aggressiveness. It was perplexing when you see a guy that big. I kept thinking, man if I was that size I could kick somebody around. No aggression from George.
Just imagine what Gibbs would have done with him.
Even after he broke the Begal DT's leg and became passive, Gibbs would have never allowed him to regress.
Shanny please patch up things with A. Gibbs and bring him back!!!!!