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View Full Version : OT: Roger Clemens, Bonds, Pettite on Mitchell Report


Gcver2ver3
12-13-2007, 10:52 AM
This should surprise no one...


The guy is two times bigger than when younger...

The guy has pitched at a high level well into his 40's...


I've been saying this for years...it's about time it goes public..


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7556534?MSNHPHMA

Smelvin
12-13-2007, 11:01 AM
The big winner in the Mitchell Report......Barry Bonds.

All you idiots who crucified him as if he was doing something unique....shame on you. To say the crucifiction of Bonds wasn't a witch hunt is laughable.

I'm not saying Bonds is innocent....but he's no different than any other modern day player.

May they ALL burn in hell!

Hotrod
12-13-2007, 11:03 AM
The big winner in the Mitchell Report......Barry Bonds.

All you idiots who crucified him as if he was doing something unique....shame on you. To say the crucifiction of Bonds wasn't a witch hunt is laughable.

I'm not saying Bonds is innocent....but he's no different than any other modern day player.

May they ALL burn in hell!

Bonds is a cheating/lying turd of a human being.

PatsWin2002
12-13-2007, 11:07 AM
This is gonna get ugly. They are saying "several prominent Yankees" are on that list.

Gcver2ver3
12-13-2007, 11:17 AM
The big winner in the Mitchell Report......Barry Bonds.

All you idiots who crucified him as if he was doing something unique....shame on you. To say the crucifiction of Bonds wasn't a witch hunt is laughable.

I'm not saying Bonds is innocent....but he's no different than any other modern day player.



Rep....I agree whole heartedly

Gcver2ver3
12-13-2007, 11:18 AM
Bonds is a cheating/lying turd of a human being.


I agree with you as well

Billy Clyde Puckett
12-13-2007, 11:30 AM
This is gonna get ugly. They are saying "several prominent Yankees" are on that list.

Yep - I heard that was published in the Boston Herald. ;D

Gcver2ver3
12-13-2007, 11:36 AM
This is gonna get ugly. They are saying "several prominent Yankees" are on that list.

really?

you know any yet?...

i'll take some guesses...

Giambi....Posada....Rivera


anybody else have any guesses?

NaptownChief
12-13-2007, 11:37 AM
The big winner in the Mitchell Report......Barry Bonds.

All you idiots who crucified him as if he was doing something unique....shame on you. To say the crucifiction of Bonds wasn't a witch hunt is laughable.

I'm not saying Bonds is innocent....but he's no different than any other modern day player.

May they ALL burn in hell!



I completely agree. Bonds is a jerk, especially to the media so the media wanted to stick it to him like no other. He is the main reason why steriods in baseball became such a media story and why steroids in football is a complete after thought.

worm
12-13-2007, 11:40 AM
They are going to need to asterisk the people that didn't use steroids. It will be a much, much shorter list.

Gcver2ver3
12-13-2007, 11:46 AM
They are going to need to asterisk the people that didn't use steroids. It will be a much, much shorter list.


The only way to even the playing field is to allow for steroids...

Even though many think I may be crazy for saying it...I've always thought steroids should be allowed...

screw it

Beantown Bronco
12-13-2007, 11:54 AM
The following names are expected to be named in the report, according to WNBC:


Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Sc hoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.

labronx
12-13-2007, 11:55 AM
The big winner in the Mitchell Report......Barry Bonds.

All you idiots who crucified him as if he was doing something unique....shame on you. To say the crucifiction of Bonds wasn't a witch hunt is laughable.

I'm not saying Bonds is innocent....but he's no different than any other modern day player.

May they ALL burn in hell!

post of the week
:strong:

Gcver2ver3
12-13-2007, 11:55 AM
The following names are expected to be named in the report, according to WNBC:


Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Sc hoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.

WOW.....

labronx
12-13-2007, 11:57 AM
I completely agree. Bonds is a jerk, especially to the media so the media wanted to stick it to him like no other. He is the main reason why steriods in baseball became such a media story and why steroids in football is a complete after thought.
post of the week 1A

Kaylore
12-13-2007, 11:57 AM
The big winner in the Mitchell Report......Barry Bonds.

All you idiots who crucified him as if he was doing something unique....shame on you. To say the crucifiction of Bonds wasn't a witch hunt is laughable.

I'm not saying Bonds is innocent....but he's no different than any other modern day player.

May they ALL burn in hell!

That Clemmens was doing it doesn't mean what Bonds did was ok. What sort of twisted logic is that?

Beantown Bronco
12-13-2007, 11:58 AM
The fact that Rich Garces was supposedly taking steroids makes me question everything I ever learned in chemistry class.

broncosteven
12-13-2007, 11:58 AM
The following names are expected to be named in the report, according to WNBC:


Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Sc hoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.


Mark Prior and Kerry Wood - the all Towel Tossing league MVP's. Explains the breakdown of their bodys...

Gcver2ver3
12-13-2007, 12:00 PM
The following names are expected to be named in the report, according to WNBC:


Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Sc hoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.


Some real jaw droppers on this list....I hope this is true..

Pujols...Petitte....Varitek...Gagne...Bagwell...Dy kstra...Damon...Matt Williams...?

Boy this is gonna be talked about for a long time...

This is huge

Gcver2ver3
12-13-2007, 12:02 PM
That Clemmens was doing it doesn't mean what Bonds did was ok. What sort of twisted logic is that?

Who said that what Bonds did was okay?

Bonds is scum...but he's not alone is all

worm
12-13-2007, 12:02 PM
Albert Pujols...

Paladin
12-13-2007, 12:04 PM
Until all those names get sorted out as to which teams they play with while taking the juice, this list is not all that helpful. Some may have taken the juice earlier rather than later or vice versa, so there is a lot of room for discussion by the named "criminals" of Baseball. There are four that I noticed that played for the Rockies. With the exception of Bichette, the juice didn't help them much.....

PS: Let me add that many of you here are much more versed in baseball than I, but I am a reasonable intelligent consumer of entertainment offerings. Therefor, I need a little help in sorting out who the scumbags swindled. One name is quite well known: Barry Bonds. The media created the big hype around his pursuit of the HR record, and I absolutely resent the scumbags' "achievements" when stacked up against Henry Aaron's or even the Babe. I hope Bonds spends about a year in the pokey for lying. What he did is at least half a bad as what the other media creation did: kill dogs.

Smelvin
12-13-2007, 12:04 PM
The Mitchell Report as seen by 90% of the posters on the Mane.......

Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds

Smelvin
12-13-2007, 12:08 PM
Noone said Bonds was right. I have NEVER denied the fact that he was a likely juicer. But it is the witch hunt that has gone on the last few years where people crucified him as if he was the ONLY ONE is where the true injustice is.

Bonds has never tested positive, but we know he's guilty. Bonds put up monster numbers at the twilight of his career. Bonds is regarded as one of the best ever.

And how exactly does this differ from Roger Clemens? And how much flack has Clemens received relative to Bonds?

Witch Hunt.

Arkansas Bronco
12-13-2007, 12:08 PM
The following names are expected to be named in the report, according to WNBC:


Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Sc hoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.

Troy Glaus and Juan Gonzalas were so bad they were on the list twice ;)
Wally Joyner was a total shock to see. Never liked the Angels but I liked him.

Gcver2ver3
12-13-2007, 12:08 PM
The Mitchell Report as seen by 90% of the posters on the Mane.......

Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds

.........................LOL

Stormontheplains
12-13-2007, 12:12 PM
Bret Boone-- Went from 160lbs to 220, are we sure he took them????

Paladin
12-13-2007, 12:16 PM
Noone said Bonds was right. I have NEVER denied the fact that he was a likely juicer. But it is the witch hunt that has gone on the last few years where people crucified him as if he was the ONLY ONE is where the true injustice is.

Bonds has never tested positive, but we know he's guilty. Bonds put up monster numbers at the twilight of his career. Bonds is regarded as one of the best ever.

And how exactly does this differ from Roger Clemens? And how much flack has Clemens received relative to Bonds?

Witch Hunt.

Hang them all, as far as I am concerned. But Bonds was a complete Arse. The others were partial arses........ I never liked Clemons, either...

Stormontheplains
12-13-2007, 12:19 PM
Before you go feeling sorry for Barry let's look at the past home run leaders and their issues. Roger Maris-- people wanted to kill him, Hank Arron-- People wanted to kill him, Sammy and Mark-- Roids and homers helped the game out, got a pass, Barry Bonds-- Press doesn't like him, people give him **** for using roids. After the trials that Maris and hank went through do you still feel sorry for Barry????? can you even compare them???

B-Love
12-13-2007, 12:40 PM
Must suck to be Ozzie Canseco. Your career sucked and your ballsack is smaller than it used to be. Was it worth it Ozzie?

Plus your brother is a douchebag and not giving you any book proceeds.

B-Love
12-13-2007, 12:45 PM
"Maurice" Vaughn.

LMAO!! Ole Mo is hoping he doesn't get noticed.

bfoflcommish
12-13-2007, 12:51 PM
I for 1 am SHOCKED to see Albert Belle on that list


lol

ward63
12-13-2007, 12:59 PM
The following names are expected to be named in the report, according to WNBC:


Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Sc hoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.

The fact that a lot of guys on this list have admitted or tested positive like Caminiti, Conseco, Jeremy Giambi, Neifi Perez, Guillen and Gibbons makes me not to really want to believe this. Some of the guys have been suspected, so they were probly just put on there. Also a couple of them are dead, I don't know bout that. I watched Sportscenter last night and the baseball analysts were talking about this is just going to be a media thing and nothing will really happen to the players.

B-Love
12-13-2007, 01:02 PM
This thing is sooooo widespread that there is no way to identify such a thing as a ground zero franchise for this stuff.

But I have always enjoyed trips to Camden Yards as it was such a refreshing change from the frenetic pace of Yankee Stadium and Fenway. When you visit Camden Yards you can't help but get this wholesome baseball feel. It's such a great environment. So I am disappointed to see so many Orioles involved, as they were the most obvious offenders, even prior to the release of the Mitchell report.

Everyone knew that Brady Anderson was using something years ago. But since then, Tejada, Jay Gibbons, Palmeiro, Jason Grimsley and David Segui, have all been rumored or outed. And now Brian Roberts and Jerry Hairston are on the leaked list. Machado had a cup of tea with the Orioles too.

And of course that douche Albert Belle finished with the O's.

The 2000-2004 Orioles look riddled with roids, which is funny cause they have sucked.

Garcia Bronco
12-13-2007, 01:04 PM
LOL@Baseball.

LonghornBronco
12-13-2007, 01:13 PM
A-Rod is my new favorite player!

ward63
12-13-2007, 01:17 PM
A-Rod is my new favorite player!

No thanks...Luckily there's no Braves, well current at least.

PatsWin2002
12-13-2007, 01:27 PM
Players that are/were in Boston I can comment on:

Nomar - most of us thought he was on it after he did that SI cover and he was "blocky" rather than the wiry spring we thought he was.

Damon - I am surprised. I'm wondering if it was just in NY since there was much more there.

Trot Nixon - Bummer, but I can see it being true.

Varitek - the big Red Sox name on there. I could understand this, but not for hitting better......totally for recovery for a catcher in his 30's that plays every day.

Rich Garces - WTF? I think they confused steroids with donuts during the investigation.

Does anyone know if this list is specifically for steroids? Or is it HGH and steroids?

WABronco
12-13-2007, 01:27 PM
Yeaaaa no Adrian Beltre! Bret Boone was a no-brainer...his forearmrs were as big as my legs.

PatsWin2002
12-13-2007, 01:28 PM
A-Rod is my new favorite player!

Rather than Bonds.....A-Rod is probably the real winner in all of this.

Also glad Manny and Ortiz are not on there....they get to be on the good list with A-Rod.

TheDave
12-13-2007, 01:29 PM
The following names are expected to be named in the report, according to WNBC:


Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Sc hoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.

What???

Professional Athletes use steroids.... Say it aint so ;D

Stormontheplains
12-13-2007, 01:32 PM
reported from si.com

Former American League MVP Miguel Tejada (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5888) is mentioned in the Mitchell Report, due to be released by 2 p.m. on Thursday afternoon, SI.com has learned.
Seven-time Cy Young winner Roger Clemens, plus Andy Pettitte (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5331), who just re-signed with the Yankees, are in the steroids reports, SI.com has confirmed, as are ex-Yankees Mike Stanton (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/4391), Chuck Knoblauch and Jason Grimsley.
Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6741) also is in the report, as is Yankees and Braves postseason hero David Justice.
Tejada spent the past four seasons with the Orioles and was acquired in trade by the Astros this week for five players.
ESPN.com first reported Clemens and Pettitte as being in the Mitchell Report.

Houshyamama
12-13-2007, 02:11 PM
some names I found:

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose Canseco, Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams, Kerry Wood

TDmvp
12-13-2007, 02:12 PM
Off Topic Move It

Popps
12-13-2007, 02:13 PM
Brady Anderson!?

I refuse to believe that. :)

He's on CNBC right now if anyone wants to be bored to death.

Popps
12-13-2007, 02:14 PM
Man, if baseball wasn't lame enough. A bunch of fat guys in a non-contact sport juicing up because they can't hit a home-run the old fashioned way.

Nice job, guys.

I picked a pretty good time to quit watching baseball in the late 90s.

TheDave
12-13-2007, 02:14 PM
Mods may want to leave this story on the front page for a bit... It is a fairly big, and will get discussed to death.... just say'n

TDmvp
12-13-2007, 02:16 PM
NAHHHHhhh id move it ..... i tried to asked a mitchell report question and wasnt allowed.... Least mine was about football SINCE this is oooooon season mode ..... sarcasm

theAPAOps5
12-13-2007, 02:17 PM
Jason Varitek, say it ain't so!

Popcorn Sutton
12-13-2007, 02:18 PM
Darryl Kile? Wow.

SoDak Bronco
12-13-2007, 02:19 PM
Mitchell is also in the Front Office of the Sox…interesting..no Manny, D-Ortiz...
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/team/front_office.jsp?c_id=bos (http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/team/front_office.jsp?c_id=bos) <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Elway777
12-13-2007, 02:20 PM
Juicing up really help Neifi Perez

TheDave
12-13-2007, 02:21 PM
Mods may want to leave this story on the front page for a bit... It is a fairly big, and will get discussed to death.... just say'n

Well so much for that...

Popps
12-13-2007, 02:23 PM
Did you see the press conference on MLB steroids?

It's very interesting.

Discuss.

TheChamp24
12-13-2007, 02:24 PM
Clemens, Sosa, Bonds, McGwire and a slew of others:
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye Cooperstown!

Elway777
12-13-2007, 02:26 PM
Juicing up really help Neifi Perez

Billy Clyde Puckett
12-13-2007, 02:33 PM
This thread has gone through more moves and mergers than AT&T

B-Love
12-13-2007, 02:34 PM
http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf

Here is the Mitchell report. Skip to the back of the report and scroll up and you'll see check copies and handwritten notes from some of the players to their source

The Mets clubhouse attendant lives 1/2 mile from me here on Long Island. His kids go to school with mine. Our neighborhoods connect.

I am friendly with the Mets attendants best friend. The guy who I am friendly with, is a big Broncos fan and Gradishar nut like me.

Los Broncos
12-13-2007, 02:37 PM
I wish Barry would go away forever, hes the most unlikeable buy ive ever seen on tv.

Clemens is a surprise to me, i know hes pitching into his forties, but i thought he was a stand up clean guy.

And i like what Sheffield says "steroids is something you shoot in your butt"

Elway777
12-13-2007, 02:44 PM
A-Rod is my new favorite player! Just because he is not on the list does not mean he is not on something.

BMF Bronco
12-13-2007, 02:44 PM
wow, Matt Herges had a check in there too.

Smiling Assassin27
12-13-2007, 02:45 PM
The big winner in the Mitchell Report......Barry Bonds.

All you idiots who crucified him as if he was doing something unique....shame on you. To say the crucifiction of Bonds wasn't a witch hunt is laughable.

I'm not saying Bonds is innocent....but he's no different than any other modern day player.

May they ALL burn in hell!


Use your head. Of course the all time home run leader will take on greater scrutiny than some utility infielder. The sin is not just in using but in deliberately lying about it every chance he got and claiming that record was not tainted. So Bonds actually IS different than any other player in that respect.

We can agree, however, with that last statement.

Gcver2ver3
12-13-2007, 02:46 PM
Just because he is not on the list does not mean he is not on something.

Exactly....you beat me to it...

there are countless players on the juice....i bet many if not most players have at least tried it even if they stopped using it shortly after....

DomCasual
12-13-2007, 02:47 PM
I'm disappointed that Herges is on there. Also, is Bichette on there or not? I saw some reports that claimed he was, then he seems to have been taken out of every report I've seen lately.

The guy I'm relieved about - my favorite Rockies player - is Larry Walker. I doubted he would be, to be honest - the guy wasn't exactly Adonis - but nothing would have shocked me. But he was such a natural, instinctive player, he didn't seem to fit the model. And, like I said, he was sort of a mess, physically, while he was here. I have always wondered what kinds of years he could have had if he would have kept himself in better shape.

Garcia Bronco
12-13-2007, 02:49 PM
Mitchell is also in the Front Office of the Sox…interesting..no Manny, D-Ortiz...
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/team/front_office.jsp?c_id=bos (http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/team/front_office.jsp?c_id=bos) <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

If that is the case it's a completely biased report and should be discarded. Bottom line the cred of the report is suspect because it a complete conflict of interest.

Garcia Bronco
12-13-2007, 02:52 PM
Use your head. Of course the all time home run leader will take on greater scrutiny than some utility infielder. The sin is not just in using but in deliberately lying about it every chance he got and claiming that record was not tainted. So Bonds actually IS different than any other player in that respect.

We can agree, however, with that last statement.

then you must indict all of baseball from the 50's on...because baseball admits it has been on performance enhancers at least since then.

Requiem
12-13-2007, 02:54 PM
**** all them mother****ers. GRIFFEY KEPT IT PURE!

BMF Bronco
12-13-2007, 02:56 PM
Mitchell is also in the Front Office of the Sox…interesting..no Manny, D-Ortiz...
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/team/front_office.jsp?c_id=bos (http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/team/front_office.jsp?c_id=bos) <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

wow, just wow, is this for real?!

Natedog24
12-13-2007, 02:57 PM
**** all them mother****ers. GRIFFEY KEPT IT PURE!

Maybe, he isn't on the Mitchell report, but just because someone isn't on the report doesn't mean they are clean. However, I think Griffey and hope that Griffey is clean, he is one of my favorite players.

DomCasual
12-13-2007, 02:59 PM
If that is the case it's a completely biased report and should be discarded. Bottom line the cred of the report is suspect because it a complete conflict of interest.

Um, why? The Red Sox didn't come out of the report unscathed.

Don't get me wrong - I hate the Red Sox. But I don't see anything with Ramirez or Ortiz that would lead me to believe they've cheated. Heck, look at Manny's HR number. He hit 31 his first full year in the majors, and has hit between 26 and 45 every year since (except for last year, when he hit 20). That's a solid, consistent career.

Ortiz career follows a curve that a lot of sluggers follow. He hits more HRs in his late 20's than at other stages in his career. But he still capped out at 54. A lot of pre-steroid hitters had numbers like that.

Let's not turn this into the Salem Witch Trials.

Popcorn Sutton
12-13-2007, 03:02 PM
Denny Neagle..... Doh!

DomCasual
12-13-2007, 03:03 PM
Denny Neagle..... Doh!

There is no name to Rockies fans that can more easily induce gut-clenching nausea than Denny Neagle.

What a disaster!

TheChamp24
12-13-2007, 03:09 PM
There is no name to Rockies fans that can more easily induce gut-clenching nausea than Denny Neagle.

What a disaster!

Mike Hampton? He was even worse. He just threw in the towel after his first year here and showed up just to get his paycheck.

Jason in LA
12-13-2007, 03:13 PM
The big winner in the Mitchell Report......Barry Bonds.

All you idiots who crucified him as if he was doing something unique....shame on you. To say the crucifiction of Bonds wasn't a witch hunt is laughable.

I'm not saying Bonds is innocent....but he's no different than any other modern day player.

May they ALL burn in hell!

I totally agree. I have never made the point that Bonds was innocent, or that he should be let off the hook. My points was always that it was unfair that he was the only one on the hook. Bonds got everything that he deserved, but all those other steroid users deserved it too. Most of them were let off the hook while Bonds took the bulk of the heat. The reasons for Bonds taking most of the heat were shakey at best. I'm not about to say it was because of race, but I'll just say that it certainly didn't help being black.

Garcia Bronco
12-13-2007, 03:14 PM
Um, why? The Red Sox didn't come out of the report unscathed.


Doesn't matter...he's employed by a specific team and his findings cannot be treated as objective under any light.

Jason in LA
12-13-2007, 03:19 PM
The Mitchell Report as seen by 90% of the posters on the Mane.......

Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds

This one is funny because it is true.

Gcver2ver3
12-13-2007, 03:21 PM
I pulled up the PDF of the Mitchell Report and ran a search for some players names...

i found most of the ones i searched for but I didn't find Nomar Garciapara...

I searched "Nomar" and came up empty....

Does anyone know if he's on there?

TheDave
12-13-2007, 03:21 PM
Doesn't matter...he's employed by a specific team and his findings cannot be treated as objective under any light.


True, but when a guy yells "water is wet" i usually believe him regardless of his employer...;D

Jason in LA
12-13-2007, 03:23 PM
Must suck to be Ozzie Canseco. Your career sucked and your ballsack is smaller than it used to be. Was it worth it Ozzie?

Plus your brother is a douchebag and not giving you any book proceeds.

Jose and Ozzie are the perfect examples of the right and wrong way to use steriods. ;D

PLOWHORSE
12-13-2007, 03:24 PM
These reports are not date specific, so Johnny Damon, and Nomaaah could very well have been juicing while on the Red Sox.

Natedog24
12-13-2007, 03:27 PM
I pulled up the PDF of the Mitchell Report and ran a search for some players names...

i found most of the ones i searched for but I didn't find Nomar Garciapara...

I searched "Nomar" and came up empty....

Does anyone know if he's on there?

I don't think so

PLOWHORSE
12-13-2007, 03:29 PM
Someone posted a list earlier and Nomaah was on there. It may not be an official list though.

DomCasual
12-13-2007, 03:30 PM
Mike Hampton? He was even worse. He just threw in the towel after his first year here and showed up just to get his paycheck.

Well, it's like arguing what's worse - stepping in dog poo in your yard, or sitting in fresh vomit at the amusement park? But in this case, I'd have to stick with Neagle. Granted, his contract was about half that of Hampton's. But when you factor in the infamous $40 payment for, ahem, services, and that he was apparently pushing steroids on everyone he could find - well, he's the vomit on the seat of my pants, and I would much prefer to be scraping dog poo off the bottom of my shoe.

DomCasual
12-13-2007, 03:31 PM
Someone posted a list earlier and Nomaah was on there. It may not be an official list though.

Yeah, I saw that list. It's the same list Bichette is on. It's BS.

PatsWin2002
12-13-2007, 03:31 PM
This doesn't mention Varitek ....I hope it's true!

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/12/cursory_search.html


No current Sox fingered (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/12/cursory_search.html)

Email (http://javascript<b></b>:openWindow('http://tools.boston.com/pass-it-on?story_url=http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/12/cursory_search.html','mailit','scrollbars,resizabl e,width=770,height=450');)|Link (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/12/cursory_search.html) By David Lefort, Boston.com Staff December 13, 2007 02:55 PM
A search of the Mitchell report on performance-enhancing drugs in baseball (read it here (http://graphics.boston.com/multimedia/2007/12/13mitchellreport/report.pdf)) found no mentions of current members of the Red Sox.
Former members of the Red Sox linked to performance-enhancing drugs in the report include Roger Clemens, Mo Vaughn, Eric Gagne, Brendan Donnelly, Steve Woodard, Jose Canseco, Manny Alexander, Paxton Crawford, Jeremy Giambi, Josias Manzanillo, Chris Donnels, Mike Lansing, Kent Mercker, and Mike Stanton.

Stormontheplains
12-13-2007, 03:37 PM
The official list

Chad Allen
Manny Alexander
Rick Ankiel
Mike Bell
David Bell
Gary Bennett Jr.
Marvin Bernard
Larry Bigbie
Barry Bonds
Kevin Brown
Paul Byrd
Ken Caminiti
Jose Canseco
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Lenny Dykstra
Bobby Estalella
Matt Franco
Ryan Franklin
Eric Gagne
Jason Giambi
Jeremi Giambi
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jason Grimsley
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Darren Holmes
Todd Hundley
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Nook Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Gary Matthews Jr.
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
David Naulty
Denny Neagle
Jim Parque
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Stephen Randolph
Adam Riggs
Brian Roberts
John Rocker
F.P. Santangelo
Benito Santiago
Gary Scheffield
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Mike Stanton
Miguel Tejada
Ismael Valdez
Mo Vaugn
Randy Velarde
Ron Villone
Fernando Vina
Rondell White
Todd Williams
Jeff Williams
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun

Jason in LA
12-13-2007, 03:44 PM
Use your head. Of course the all time home run leader will take on greater scrutiny than some utility infielder. The sin is not just in using but in deliberately lying about it every chance he got and claiming that record was not tainted. So Bonds actually IS different than any other player in that respect.

We can agree, however, with that last statement.

I wouldn't have a problem with Bonds taking more heat than most other players. But the problem is that he took the bulk of the heat, by himself for the most part, while many pretty much got a free pass. Bonds should be in the group of guys who is talked about more, but there should not be one poster child of the steriods era. Bonds was given way more than his fair share of the heat.

Jason in LA
12-13-2007, 03:46 PM
**** all them mother****ers. GRIFFEY KEPT IT PURE!

If Griff had used roids he would have been healthy like McGwire, and he would have smashed 70. I give him credit for not using...if he didn't actually use it.

BMF Bronco
12-13-2007, 03:48 PM
hmm, looks that Mr. Innocent asterik is on the list afterall!

Bronco LB 59
12-13-2007, 03:54 PM
There's not one shocking name on that list. What Mitchell said today was nothing we already didn't know. All this hoopla is much ado about nothing.

DomCasual
12-13-2007, 03:54 PM
hmm, looks that Mr. Innocent asterik is on the list afterall!

???

What in the sam hell are you talking about, son?

Northman
12-13-2007, 03:56 PM
I totally agree. I have never made the point that Bonds was innocent, or that he should be let off the hook. My points was always that it was unfair that he was the only one on the hook. Bonds got everything that he deserved, but all those other steroid users deserved it too. Most of them were let off the hook while Bonds took the bulk of the heat. The reasons for Bonds taking most of the heat were shakey at best. I'm not about to say it was because of race, but I'll just say that it certainly didn't help being black.


Oh please. Please dont become the new Footstool24. At least you used to keep it more objective than that ridiculous assclown. Bonds wasnt singled out because of his color. He was in the spotlight because of the record he was breaking, nothing more.

Northman
12-13-2007, 04:03 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with Bonds taking more heat than most other players. But the problem is that he took the bulk of the heat, by himself for the most part, while many pretty much got a free pass. Bonds should be in the group of guys who is talked about more, but there should not be one poster child of the steriods era. Bonds was given way more than his fair share of the heat.


This is not true. The Mitchell Report has been going on for the last 2 years because of the investigation. The FACT that Bonds admitted to "unknowingly" taking steriods and the FACT that he was about to break one of baseball's prominant records automatically put the pressure on himself. The only other names that had accusations of steroid use at the time when Bonds got discovered were those of players who were no longer in the league and at that point were irrelevant. Now, that the report is out you will see players on this list catch the heat. The list was never released until now so there was no one else to talk about but Bonds.

PatsWin2002
12-13-2007, 04:11 PM
I hope Gagne gets his money back for any steroids he bought for the '07 season. :)

BMF Bronco
12-13-2007, 04:11 PM
???

What in the sam hell are you talking about, son?

Someone here said earlier that barry lamar bonds wasn't on the list, so I was just contradicting that statement.

The official list


Barry Bonds

Gcver2ver3
12-13-2007, 04:20 PM
Bonds wasnt singled out because of his color. He was in the spotlight because of the record he was breaking, nothing more.

Well I wouldn't go that far....but i do believe that Barry Bond's personality teamed with his gawdy record breaking numbers does obviously bring attention to him....deservingly so...i agree with you there

But if you're implying that color has no impact on this that would be a bit niave....

DomCasual
12-13-2007, 04:22 PM
I hope Gagne gets his money back for any steroids he bought for the '07 season. :)

Yeah, I think they were placebos.

Victor
12-13-2007, 04:23 PM
Doesn't matter...he's employed by a specific team and his findings cannot be treated as objective under any light.

I'm sure that you've passed judgement only after reading the 400+ page report. Or maybe in your extensive legal career you've developed an expertise around objectivity, and are in fact qualified to provide definitive statements without actual investigation.

Right?

BMF Bronco
12-13-2007, 04:24 PM
Well I wouldn't go that far....but i do believe that Barry Bond's personality teamed with his gawdy record breaking numbers does obviously bring attention to him....deservingly so...i agree with you there

But if you're implying that color has no impact on this that would be a bit niave....

Oh come on now, give me a ***king break, don't turn this into a race thing now. Is Giambi black? No and he was grilled, he just admitted it and dealt with it, hence why you don't hear the lingering stories of it anymore. All of these mother ****ers are of different race, creed, religion, etc and should all get the same treatment.

Northman
12-13-2007, 04:29 PM
Well I wouldn't go that far....but i do believe that Barry Bond's personality teamed with his gawdy record breaking numbers does obviously bring attention to him....deservingly so...i agree with you there

But if you're implying that color has no impact on this that would be a bit niave....


It doesnt. Maybe Bonds attitude towards the whole ordeal and how he conducted himself as a person may have brought more scrutiny to himself. I would agree with that sentiment. But color was not a factor in this. Again, the fact that Bonds was going for a prominent record was his biggest achilles heal. And seeing how there were no other names released aside from players who were retired or irrelevant to the league added the fuel to the Bonds spotlight. It doesnt matter who on this website or in society "thought" were on steroids, what matters is who was on the report. But there was never a name leaked out aside from a rumor here or rumor there. But you can bet your ass that with the report being out now no one will get a so-called "free pass". If McGwire was still in the league playing he would be right on that mantle next to Bonds right now. But, he is out of the league so therefore irrelevant to what was going on the baseball field.

Atwater His Ass
12-13-2007, 04:31 PM
I'm sure that you've passed judgement only after reading the 400+ page report. Or maybe in your extensive legal career you've developed an expertise around objectivity, and are in fact qualified to provide definitive statements without actual investigation.

Right?

ROFL!

Garcia Bronco
12-13-2007, 04:44 PM
I'm sure that you've passed judgement only after reading the 400+ page report. Or maybe in your extensive legal career you've developed an expertise around objectivity, and are in fact qualified to provide definitive statements without actual investigation.

Right?

Bottom line is...it's a conflict of interest...and any of the conclusions can be questioned because of it. I do have extensive study in research methods...to create an objective study one must eliminate confounding variables. So in this case....a confounding variable is the fact that Mr Mitchell is an employee of a particular baseball team. This could have been eliminated...either by Mitchell resigning his post with the Soxs, or MLB could have selected someone else. There really isn't any way around this. Sorry.

DomCasual
12-13-2007, 04:45 PM
The Bonds thing is just ridiculous.

1) He holds every significant home run record in MLB history. It's the most important record in baseball.

2) He has been an active player throughout the most scrutinized years of the scandal (in other words, he's in the spotlight 162 nights a year).

3) He is standoffish to the guys who write about him. He pisses them off, and all but challenges to write the next inflammatory column.

Honestly, with all of that, there are people saying he's scrutinized...because he's black? That's unbelievably ridiculous.

There are A LOT of black guys in the Mitchell report.

I'm not going to point at anyone directly, because I don't know who has said that, in the past. But whomever said it needs to take a deep breath and think a little. If Mark McGwire was still playing, and he held the record for most HRs in a season, and most HRs all-time, he would be getting crucified, too.

Jason in LA
12-13-2007, 05:17 PM
Oh please. Please dont become the new Footstool24. At least you used to keep it more objective than that ridiculous assclown. Bonds wasnt singled out because of his color. He was in the spotlight because of the record he was breaking, nothing more.

This is an exact quote from my post.

"I'm not about to say it was because of race"

Jason in LA
12-13-2007, 05:23 PM
This is not true. The Mitchell Report has been going on for the last 2 years because of the investigation. The FACT that Bonds admitted to "unknowingly" taking steriods and the FACT that he was about to break one of baseball's prominant records automatically put the pressure on himself. The only other names that had accusations of steroid use at the time when Bonds got discovered were those of players who were no longer in the league and at that point were irrelevant. Now, that the report is out you will see players on this list catch the heat. The list was never released until now so there was no one else to talk about but Bonds.


This report isn't saying anything we didn't already know. We all knew that a lot of these players were on roids. Bonds was taking heat over it before he went before the grand jury. It was a witch hunt against Bonds. Others took a little heat, but nobody took it like Bonds took it. Not even close. They are all guilty of the same thing.

Now, I am not saying that Bonds should be let off the hook. He should take the heat. My point is that other players should have taken just as much heat. Bash them all or don't bash any of them. I'm all for bashing them all, including Bonds.

Jason in LA
12-13-2007, 05:25 PM
Well I wouldn't go that far....but i do believe that Barry Bond's personality teamed with his gawdy record breaking numbers does obviously bring attention to him....deservingly so...i agree with you there

But if you're implying that color has no impact on this that would be a bit niave....

I totally agree, especially with the last sentence. Like I said before, I'm not about to say it was because of race, but being black certainly doesn't help him.

Stormontheplains
12-13-2007, 05:34 PM
This report isn't saying anything we didn't already know. We all knew that a lot of these players were on roids. Bonds was taking heat over it before he went before the grand jury. It was a witch hunt against Bonds. Others took a little heat, but nobody took it like Bonds took it. Not even close. They are all guilty of the same thing.

Now, I am not saying that Bonds should be let off the hook. He should take the heat. My point is that other players should have taken just as much heat. Bash them all or don't bash any of them. I'm all for bashing them all, including Bonds.

Bonds and Jones are the only Balco athletes that did not admit use, she has paid the price, and now it is his turn. I believe being black and an asshole gets you as far as being a white asshole, nowhere!!!

SonOfLe-loLang
12-13-2007, 05:42 PM
Now that Mo Vaughn has been implicated, can we give Albert Belle the 95 MVP award he deserved anyway:) ?

And who cares about all this...i can't believe anyone is shocked at any of this or really cares all that much. They are still superior athletes...i dunno. I'm sure in the minority, i just dont give a crap. It doesnt change the game for me and they are only hurting themselves, so i don't care

elsid13
12-13-2007, 05:45 PM
Bottom line is...it's a conflict of interest...and any of the conclusions can be questioned because of it. I do have extensive study in research methods...to create an objective study one must eliminate confounding variables. So in this case....a confounding variable is the fact that Mr Mitchell is an employee of a particular baseball team. This could have been eliminated...either by Mitchell resigning his post with the Soxs, or MLB could have selected someone else. There really isn't any way around this. Sorry.

He not a employee of the Red Sox, he is in the ownership group that has stake in the team. He has hold less then 5% of ownership fund I think and has no oversight or control of baseball operation. Effectively a firebreak has been put in place to ensure that there was no conflict of interest. The only yahoos that will make that statement are Yankee fans.

As side note- I did think that whoever put the unoffical list up, should remove it or clearly mark it as not true. There are serveral players like - Woods, Nomar and Tek that are not indicated in the report.

Atwater His Ass
12-13-2007, 05:47 PM
He not a employee of the Red Sox, he is in the ownership group that has stake in the team. He has hold less then 5% of ownership fund I think and has no oversight or control of baseball operation. Effectively a firebreak has been put in place to ensure that there was no conflict of interest. The only yahoos that will make that statement are Yankee fans.

As side note- I did think that whoever put the unoffical list up, should remove it or clearly mark it as not true. There are serveral players like - Woods, Nomar and Tek that are not indicated in the report.

Careful, you'll start to confuse Garcia with facts.

Cito Pelon
12-13-2007, 05:51 PM
Until all those names get sorted out as to which teams they play with while taking the juice, this list is not all that helpful. Some may have taken the juice earlier rather than later or vice versa, so there is a lot of room for discussion by the named "criminals" of Baseball. There are four that I noticed that played for the Rockies. With the exception of Bichette, the juice didn't help them much.....

PS: Let me add that many of you here are much more versed in baseball than I, but I am a reasonable intelligent consumer of entertainment offerings. Therefor, I need a little help in sorting out who the scumbags swindled. One name is quite well known: Barry Bonds. The media created the big hype around his pursuit of the HR record, and I absolutely resent the scumbags' "achievements" when stacked up against Henry Aaron's or even the Babe. I hope Bonds spends about a year in the pokey for lying. What he did is at least half a bad as what the other media creation did: kill dogs.

I guess they swindled the non-juicers out of things like the Cy Young, League MVP, batting champ, RBI champ, SB champ, and assorted team records.

There's some big names listed, and I saw some quotes where people are saying they can't take records or awards away from these players. I disagree, I think that is most certainly the next step.

Cito Pelon
12-13-2007, 06:12 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with Bonds taking more heat than most other players. But the problem is that he took the bulk of the heat, by himself for the most part, while many pretty much got a free pass. Bonds should be in the group of guys who is talked about more, but there should not be one poster child of the steriods era. Bonds was given way more than his fair share of the heat.

He certainly took all the heat in the stadiums. But McGwire, etc., certainly were shown a great deal of contempt in the press and on boards like this.

Orange_Beard
12-13-2007, 06:16 PM
Neifi Perez, he must have gotten a bad batch.

Maximus
12-13-2007, 06:55 PM
Noone said Bonds was right. I have NEVER denied the fact that he was a likely juicer. But it is the witch hunt that has gone on the last few years where people crucified him as if he was the ONLY ONE is where the true injustice is.

Bonds has never tested positive, but we know he's guilty. Bonds put up monster numbers at the twilight of his career. Bonds is regarded as one of the best ever.

And how exactly does this differ from Roger Clemens? And how much flack has Clemens received relative to Bonds?

Witch Hunt.

Forget it smelvin your dealing with a crowd that doesn't listen or read. Bonds said he never knowingly used steroids just like other people yet he's dragged into a federal investigation and crucified... He's a cheater just like clemons and the rest on the list but everything else is over the top.

OBF1
12-13-2007, 07:11 PM
That Clemmens was doing it doesn't mean what Bonds did was ok. What sort of twisted logic is that?

Kaylore, you are way off with your comment. He did not say that, He said that this was a Bonds witchhunt and that people were saying it was a unique situation that was all Bonds.

Northman
12-13-2007, 07:18 PM
This report isn't saying anything we didn't already know.

We as in who? The fans? Media? We all SUSPECTED but we didnt have any proof.

Bonds was taking heat over it before he went before the grand jury.

I disagree. People SUSPECTED he was doing it before the grand jury testimony. But like the names in the report, we only suspected but we didnt know. But once Bonds grand jury testimony got out it solidified everything that people suspected. Its a lot different between suspecting someone of being on steriods than having evidence. Now that the report is out more people will feel the wrath from the report.

They are all guilty of the same thing.

Yes they are, but until you have the proof (which is out now in the report) they couldnt just start claiming those guys to have been on steriods like they did Bonds. Had Barry simply denied the allegations without the word "unknowingly" it would have been a hell of a lot easier on him. And if he wasnt in the process of breaking a significant record it would have been even easier at that point. At the time that Bonds was being addressed as a steriod user there was other players who were "allegedly" using steriods. Nothing on paper or on record for the to share the blame during that time. Now, Bonds has some company. Again, just because you and I feel that some of those other players were on steroids doesnt mean you can just go out there and accuse them without some solidification.

Northman
12-13-2007, 07:20 PM
He certainly took all the heat in the stadiums. But McGwire, etc., certainly were shown a great deal of contempt in the press and on boards like this.


True.

Spider
12-13-2007, 07:21 PM
Well if that many were on Roids , I dont see where anyone had an advantage ...... Hell put them all on roids , during a boring game , we could have a brawl .....

Don Flamenco
12-13-2007, 07:29 PM
Maybe the report that they should come out with is who DIDN'T use steroids

Don Flamenco
12-13-2007, 07:30 PM
True.


And he was just as much a dick as Barry

defenseman
12-13-2007, 07:31 PM
First order of business: Selig knew what was going on, he gets canned first, then one by one take them down. Permanent ban, no hall, no anything.....can the lot of them if this holds up to be the honest to god truth. Notice, no red sox active players listed...dman

Popps
12-13-2007, 07:37 PM
Woooooooooooow!!!!!


The mods decided to let us babies talk about what we want, huh?

Or, are they just on break?

This story got sent to the **** can (or whatever) about 5 different times this morning.

Northman
12-13-2007, 07:41 PM
Woooooooooooow!!!!!


The mods decided to let us babies talk about what we want, huh?

Or, are they just on break?

This story got sent to the **** can (or whatever) about 5 different times this morning.


:rofl:

Cito Pelon
12-13-2007, 07:45 PM
There's not one shocking name on that list. What Mitchell said today was nothing we already didn't know. All this hoopla is much ado about nothing.

No, it's significant.

-Slap-
12-13-2007, 07:51 PM
The big winner in the Mitchell Report......Barry Bonds.

All you idiots who crucified him as if he was doing something unique....shame on you. To say the crucifiction of Bonds wasn't a witch hunt is laughable.

I'm not saying Bonds is innocent....but he's no different than any other modern day player.

May they ALL burn in hell!

What a stupid cawksucker.

-Slap-
12-13-2007, 07:57 PM
Obviously every retard with B*nds dick in their mouth was going to play the everybody was doing it card.

80 names on this list.

750 major leaguers at any given time.

That would come out to less than 11% of the players.

But, you can see the names of several retired players on that list, which means the player pool expands dramatically. If we're talking twice as many players, now you're down to about 5%, which is slightly more than one player per team.

Cito Pelon
12-13-2007, 07:58 PM
It's about gotdang time MLB came out with the TRUTH! I've been furious about the denials and smirks and flat-out lying since 1986. This is a START at the real truth. There will be more truth to come. Now it's time to start on the path to justice, i.e., removing some records and awards from the books.

Cheaters should never prosper.

-Slap-
12-13-2007, 08:01 PM
Noone said Bonds was right. I have NEVER denied the fact that he was a likely juicer. But it is the witch hunt that has gone on the last few years where people crucified him as if he was the ONLY ONE is where the true injustice is.

Bonds has never tested positive, but we know he's guilty. Bonds put up monster numbers at the twilight of his career. Bonds is regarded as one of the best ever.

And how exactly does this differ from Roger Clemens? And how much flack has Clemens received relative to Bonds?

Witch Hunt.

Hey dumb****. McGwire got 23% of the Hall vote and Palmeiro is a pariah/laughing stock.

Obviously, they were only out to get your hero.

Stupid mother****er.

-Slap-
12-13-2007, 08:02 PM
It's about gotdang time MLB came out with the TRUTH! I've been furious about the denials and smirks and flat-out lying since 1986. This is a START at the real truth. There will be more truth to come. Now it's time to start on the path to justice, i.e., removing some records and awards from the books.

Cheaters should never prosper.

At least MLB is trying to do something. In the NFL, you can get all juiced up and still garner lots of support for Defensive Player of the Year. Talk about a fraudulent sport.

Cito Pelon
12-13-2007, 08:06 PM
Obviously every retard with B*nds dick in their mouth was going to play the everybody was doing it card.

80 names on this list.

750 major leaguers at any given time.

That would come out to less than 11% of the players.

But, you can see the names of several retired players on that list, which means the player pool expands dramatically. If we're talking twice as many players, now you're down to about 5%, which is slightly more than one player per team.

I guess what you're saying is the huge majority of MLB players are clean and have been clean. I think this is true. This why I certainly want to see the cheaters erased from the record books, so the legitimate award-winners get the recognition they deserve.

Look at the number of players on that list that have won awards by cheating, that have team records by cheating. F them, remove them from the record books.

azbroncfan
12-13-2007, 11:41 PM
Who cares about these fools as baseball has been dead in my opinion since the strike year.

Pendejo
12-14-2007, 01:41 AM
I didn't see Tony Gwynn's name on this list. What a bunch of bull-**** that is. No one...including Bonds put on more weight at the end of his career than T-Gwynn.

BMF Bronco
12-14-2007, 01:42 AM
Um apparently a lot of us still care considering this is a 6 page long, 132 post thread.

BMF Bronco
12-14-2007, 01:42 AM
I didn't see Tony Gwynn's name on this list. What a bunch of bull-**** that is. No one...including Bonds put on more weight at the end of his career than T-Gwynn.

pssst, wrong kind of weight! :spit:

To Tony Gwynn, HGH meant Honey Glazed Ham!

Garcia Bronco
12-14-2007, 10:50 AM
He not a employee of the Red Sox, he is in the ownership group that has stake in the team. He has hold less then 5% of ownership.

It's still a conflict of interest. He owns stake in the Boston Red Soxs. There really isn't anyway around that.

Smelvin
12-14-2007, 04:52 PM
Obviously every retard with B*nds dick in their mouth was going to play the everybody was doing it card.

80 names on this list.

750 major leaguers at any given time.

That would come out to less than 11% of the players.

But, you can see the names of several retired players on that list, which means the player pool expands dramatically. If we're talking twice as many players, now you're down to about 5%, which is slightly more than one player per team.

If you *really* think that this report captures every juicer in the game then you are dumber than I thought.

This report represents a fraction of the abusers. A fraction! The only sources Mitchell had were BALCO, the Mets batboy (Radomski) and the other trainer (McNamee).

Without Radomski this report is 12 pages long. I know you have a hard-on for Bonds, and probably rightfully so since he's such an a-hole, but to single him out for steroid use is laughable. Get real. How many guys got their juice from a source that Mitchell didn't talk to? TONS and TONS and TONS! These were just the guys that got caught. There's a BALCO in every city, a Radomski on every team.

It just so happened that BALCO didn't pay their taxes and got busted for tax evasion and money laundering. All the juice then leaked out.

This report is an absolute joke. It's great that some players were outed...but it's selective prosecution. There are umpteen juicers that were not mentioned...and to be brutally honest, MLB, the owners and players association have no real objective of cleaning up the game.

Bonds is guilty as sin for being unique in that he's the biggest a-hole known to mankind. But as a juicer.....he's just one of the guys. Guys that were outed, and guys that were not outed. Unfortunately for him...he's much better than any of them.

elsid13
12-14-2007, 05:20 PM
It's still a conflict of interest. He owns stake in the Boston Red Soxs. There really isn't anyway around that.

Mitchell was the owners representative for the owner's report. He had a retired judge as co lead who had no fiscal ties to MLB also to ensure the integrity of the process. Beside the fact that only reason Mitchell was picked by the owners for their report was because his repetition of being fair and honest.

A conflict of interest would only occur if Mitchell had direct interaction and oversight of the team. Trust me I send a lot of team lawyers and other folks that need to ensure they don't get into COI issues.

Garcia Bronco
12-19-2007, 05:28 PM
People can still point a finger and call it a COI

elsid13
12-19-2007, 06:50 PM
People can still point a finger and call it a COI

People can also believe the Brodie Croyle is better then Cutler, doesn't mean that they are right.

Garcia Bronco
12-20-2007, 11:57 AM
People can also believe the Brodie Croyle is better then Cutler, doesn't mean that they are right.

Apparently...what's perceived is real.

broncsyanks
12-23-2007, 10:29 PM
Mitchell was the owners representative for the owner's report. He had a retired judge as co lead who had no fiscal ties to MLB also to ensure the integrity of the process. Beside the fact that only reason Mitchell was picked by the owners for their report was because his repetition of being fair and honest.

A conflict of interest would only occur if Mitchell had direct interaction and oversight of the team. Trust me I send a lot of team lawyers and other folks that need to ensure they don't get into COI issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco
It's still a conflict of interest. He owns stake in the Boston Red Soxs. There really isn't anyway around that.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

i have read this report from cover to cover. this report has as much validity as the warren commisions report on the kennedy assasination. there was only 1 gunmen.
1st-- mitchell. unbiased? dont think so. he is on the board of directors of a rival team that seemed to be the brunt of the whole investigation. whether he had people who werent affiliated with baseball it really doesnt matter because ultimately he over saw everything and determined what goes in the report.
2- mitchell is affiliated with baseball. so his credibilty is compromised.
3- no subpena power nulifies and makes the report not that credible.
4- there whole investigation stemmed around people who were going to jail and needed to save there arses. again i seriously question there truthfullness because of it. why should anyone believe them over people who were in the game and have had no ill contact with the law
5- sammy sosa and mcguires names were not in the report
6- i can easily speculat more that i have no proof otherwise. see brady andersons 50 homerun season LOL
7- shoeless joe jackson- with the black sox scandel judge landis told the owners that he needed absolut power or else no one would believe it. that there was a credibility issue.
8- he was right who really believes that major league baseball has addressed the issue with this report.
9- never anywhere in the report does it mention that they questioned owners and gms respectably. you mean to tell me none of them knew? did major league baseball owners tell each other and there respective reps. to not discuss it with the mitchell investigation>? cause that doesnt happen. yeah right! and why was the players the ones with all the names being mentioned and not them. there is a lot of evidence that points to the gm towers in san diego who knows.
10- no where in the report does it give any onus to baseball for taking responsibilty.
11- jose canseco-- you know the guy who blew the lid and everyone insisted was lying only to be proven that it wasnt him who was lieing. lol
he has gone on the record and say what about arod? if that is the case has the mitchell investigation lied to supress a possible successor to the home run record and put the steroid era behind baseball. he wasnt mentioned
12- a while back a duely noted boston red sox player was caught with roids in his car and was never mentioned in the report.
13- the amount of players on his own team not here makes me question it more. why wasnt there more?
14- there whole basis of a report was only because of 2 new york trainers or bat boy respectably. and balco was located in california. yeah right!


overall these are some points i wanted to just throw out there.

IMHO i believe that roids/HGH is rampant in baseball. i see this report as a coverup so that MLB can get congress off of there backs. and they used a congressman to help. notice the $60 mil price tag. the only thing selig could do is use the best interest of baseball clause to enforce any punishment, somehting he has been reluctant to do. i also have to laugh at everyone who is like OH MY GOD HE DID ROIDS. LMAO@ them. becasue i cannot see anyone not saying they didnt enjoy the roid era. i did. i cant look back now and feel like a hypocrit. who didnt enjoy the sosa mcguire thing?> now after the fact we learn they did somthings they shouldnt have, is it going to taint our joy of that time we all watched it? No. look for the press to keep this going because they are the ones with a lot of egg on there faces.

broncocalijohn
01-08-2008, 05:00 AM
does anyone out there thinks that CLemens sounds more guilty by taping that phone call with his former trainer? Not once did he tell him that the trainer lied or that CLemens didnt use steroids/HGH. I think it sounded like Clemens wanted him to lie or why he didnt cover up for him. Not one time did Brian say he lied. Bonds and Clemens. Together forever.