View Full Version : The real reason we played so well...
Kaylore
12-10-2007, 06:07 PM
The offensive line. I'm surprised no one has said anything about this. The Chiefs defensive line is very good. Jared Allen, while a contemptible drunken hick, is a pretty good football player. The O-line did a great job in the run and pass game. I particularly like watching Myers and Kuper bang all those big plays up the left side while Sapp and Graham helped Lepsis completely shut Allen down.
The blocking was fantastic. Good blocking = big plays.
Thanks, offensive line. You guys are coming together (and so young too!).
rovolution
12-10-2007, 06:13 PM
Pears did pretty good against Hali as well, and Hali is by no means a pushover.
Old Dude
12-10-2007, 06:13 PM
Somehow, Graham was not only getting the job done in helping with Allen, but also getting downfield for a couple of key receptions.
The line did look pretty good. I'm still concerned, though, about how Lepsis was tossed around like a rag doll last week.
Someone else who should get some credit are the kick coverage guys. Unless I'm mistaken, there were a couple of new bodies in there, and that was the best performance I've seen out of that crew for a long, long time.
rovolution
12-10-2007, 06:15 PM
Somehow, Graham was not only getting the job done in helping with Allen, but also getting downfield for a couple of key receptions.
The line did look pretty good. I'm still concerned, though, about how Lepsis was tossed around like a rag doll last week.
Someone else who should get some credit are the kick coverage guys. Unless I'm mistaken, there were a couple of new bodies in there, and that was the best performance I've seen out of that crew for a long, long time.
i think Paul Smith is finally healthy for the first time this season and it really showed. We brought this dude in for ST, and hes performing.
Victor
12-10-2007, 06:18 PM
[QUOTE=Kaylore;1813216] The Chiefs defensive line is very good. Jared Allen, while a contemptible drunken hick, is a pretty good football player. QUOTE]
Supposedly he has been sober since his second DUI. I commend him for taking a difficult step that many cannot make. I hope that he can stay clean, for his own sake. And I agree, he is a good football player.
broncofan2438
12-10-2007, 06:22 PM
Yup, toally agree. They left Cutler with great time in the pocket. They also filled holes and gave Selvin some great running room. They just need to keep it up
Didn't get to see the game, but Cutler made comments about how well the o-line played as well...glad to see this crew is coming together.
theAPAOps5
12-10-2007, 06:32 PM
I mentioned the line in my post game thoughts. The thread got burried. There was a play where Allen lined up wide. At the snap Lepsis took a quick step out and then a burst right at allen that sent him back two or three steps. Just completely eliminated him. It was the old lepsis.
NYBronco
12-10-2007, 06:35 PM
Cutler was getting great pass protection and when it broke down he would step out and make a positive play. I like the mix of plays that also helped keep the KC D guessing. The quick lead also helped the offense take control. The oline is looking good.
Kaylore
12-10-2007, 06:40 PM
Pears did pretty good against Hali as well, and Hali is by no means a pushover.
Hali hasn't been too impressive this year. Usually when one side is dominating the other gets more chances. Right now he has six sacks and two forced fumbles. I know the "sack" against us was on the Marshall end around because he tried to throw so it was technically a sack. I believe one of his other sacks was running a QB out of bounds so really he has four sacks. Not the kind of thing you want to see from a first round defensive end.
Somehow, Graham was not only getting the job done in helping with Allen, but also getting downfield for a couple of key receptions.
The line did look pretty good. I'm still concerned, though, about how Lepsis was tossed around like a rag doll last week.
Someone else who should get some credit are the kick coverage guys. Unless I'm mistaken, there were a couple of new bodies in there, and that was the best performance I've seen out of that crew for a long, long time.
I agree. I think Lepsis just had a bad game and pride took over this time. I still think he should take a pay cut this offseason, though.
And Scott O'Brien has turned this special teams unit around. There will be more tweaking in the offseason, but I'm convinced that we can have a top ten ST unit next year especially once we settle on a bona-fide return man.
I think Hali has had injury problems this year but he's still out there.
I also thought that the OL had a great game. I also think that KC was packing this game in. They didn't do anything elaborate, just pretty much a straight forward attack and we handled it.
I like what we have on the interior line. I think that Lepsis is in line for renegotiation this offseason along with Nalen and Hamilton if they are to be on this football team. As good as we did yesterday, imagine if we didn't have to protect one player the whole game which was the case with Lepsis.
I'm still saying that we need to add parts to this OLine and it starts on the counters with Pears and Lepsis. Their play for the season has been disappointing.
The interior line has a chance to be very good though with Holland, Kuper and Myers.
s0phr0syne
12-10-2007, 07:21 PM
Just pray that Harris works out too. Obviously, that would be VERY good.
How did they do last week? I like to see them do well like everyone else but Im not going to jump up and down after one game.
TheDave
12-10-2007, 07:34 PM
There is also the chance that we played so well because.... KC Sucks (no I mean dolphins bad)
I'm up in the air about Harris still. Pears has had some pretty crappy games this season yet the only time Harris has gone in was when Pears got knocked out with an injury.
go_broncos
12-10-2007, 08:02 PM
If you remember earlier, Shanny praised Young abt his ability to pickup blitz and they way he blocks during passing plays.
I feel that is the difference...
Arkansas Bronco
12-10-2007, 08:31 PM
I stated several times in chat on how long Jay had. Obviously the run blocking was also well.
azbroncfan
12-10-2007, 08:32 PM
I already mentioned the real reason the Broncos one but some merge happy mod merged it. KC Sucks and is one of the worst teams in the league. KC's DL outside of Hali and Allen suck and the DT's are just as garbage as Denvers. KC's OL is so bad that they allowed 5 sacks to a DL that is one of the worst in the league. Dumerville is a good DE but he feasts on OT's like KC's instead of the better ones in the league. I believe Med has kept stats on that.
Cito Pelon
12-10-2007, 08:57 PM
I think Hali has had injury problems this year but he's still out there.
I also thought that the OL had a great game. I also think that KC was packing this game in. They didn't do anything elaborate, just pretty much a straight forward attack and we handled it.
I like what we have on the interior line. I think that Lepsis is in line for renegotiation this offseason along with Nalen and Hamilton if they are to be on this football team. As good as we did yesterday, imagine if we didn't have to protect one player the whole game which was the case with Lepsis.
I'm still saying that we need to add parts to this OLine and it starts on the counters with Pears and Lepsis. Their play for the season has been disappointing.
The interior line has a chance to be very good though with Holland, Kuper and Myers.
Lepsis has been catching a lot of crap all year, but he's a warrior. ACL recovery during the offseason, a groin injury in preseason. If the team had anybody to play in his place, he might have gone onto the PUP list. But Harris was drafted with a bad back, had to have surgery on his back. Kuper filled in at LT when Lepsis had the groin in preseason, but Hamilton was out also. So the team was thin at OT from TC on.
So Lepsis maybe has been playing hurt since game one. LT is a crucial position, and I think Lepsis showed some guts. Just my two cents.
As for the OL as a whole, yeah, not bad, not bad at all.
I was happy to see that old running play in the red zone inside the five where the TE would drag across the formation and plunge in over an OG. Henry had two TD's against the Raiders using that play, and I think it was used again yesterday. Remember, that was a staple running play inside the five years ago with Carswell, Griffith, TDavis. The O also ran some play-action off the same thing. The O staff tried that play after Carswell, Howard, TD retired but couldn't pull it off I guess and abandoned it for a few years. I hadn't seen that running play used much since 2003 I guess.
Nice victory, I want more.
Bronx33
12-10-2007, 09:00 PM
Credit cutler for avoiding the rush as well, there was one play that was broken and recognized the fact he needed to run and just a few games ago he would have tried to force a pass somewhere. (the kid is learning)
DenverFanMan6
12-10-2007, 09:07 PM
It seems that we do better when they actually boot cutler out and have them throw it like the plummer days
Bronx33
12-10-2007, 09:09 PM
It seems that we do better when they actually boot cutler out and have them throw it like the plummer days
We will probably see more and more of that when he gets better at throwing on the run and reading the D to avoid a pick.
orinjkrush
12-10-2007, 09:17 PM
whatever they were drinking should be bottled and given before every game. maybe it was some of Romo's famous "soup". i liked the attitude they showed.
Merlin
12-10-2007, 09:25 PM
We will probably see more and more of that when he gets better at throwing on the run and reading the D to avoid a pick.
Actually, he has one of the highest ratings in the league when he rolls out and throws on the run
Kaylore
12-10-2007, 09:32 PM
It seems that we do better when they actually boot cutler out and have them throw it like the plummer days
The bootleg owns KC. It always has. They've made jokes over on Chief's Planet about it.
TheDave
12-10-2007, 09:33 PM
The bootleg owns KC. It always has. They've made jokes over on Chief's Planet about it.
Goonther's defense has always had trouble with the Boot...probably always will :)
"The real reason we player so well"?
Cause we need to in order to win the Super Bowl.
Cito Pelon
12-10-2007, 09:36 PM
It seems that we do better when they actually boot cutler out and have them throw it like the plummer days
In the red zone, Cutler booting then passing has worked well. And they haven't even tried a naked boot. Why they haven't tried some more of that, you'll have to tell me. The O in the red zone and particularly inside the 8 or so lined up in about two formations all year until recently, and ran about only four different plays inside the 8 all year until recently. You tell me why that was. Maybe Req, SoCal, lex and those guys had it right. Shanahan wanted a higher draft choice?
Popcorn Sutton
12-10-2007, 09:38 PM
I agree it was a major factor but holding the opposition to 16 yards rushing plays a big part as well.
Bronx33
12-10-2007, 09:41 PM
Actually, he has one of the highest ratings in the league when he rolls out and throws on the run
That's fine he also has a few picks rolling out.
Inkana7
12-10-2007, 09:58 PM
That's fine he also has a few picks rolling out.
2 in his career, I think.
Bronx33
12-10-2007, 10:05 PM
2 in his career, I think.
Do they have a stat on those passes? that iam just going by memory iam just saying any ball thrown on the run being a play or the pocket collapses or he flushed out.
dsmoot
12-10-2007, 10:14 PM
I have been critical of OL this year and critical of others who think that all we need is one tackle. The OL did play well against a 4-9 team. All in all a great effort. One game doesn't a season make. I hope that I am wrong about this current unit but I will believe when I see them play this way consistently the rest of the way out.
Spider
12-10-2007, 10:21 PM
I watched this game close , and this Bronco team that showed p , cold beat the snot out of anyone , consistency is or problem .....
we played well in all 3 phases of the game . This may have already been talked about , I havent read this thread , but Chiefs D linemen wernt raising their hands at the LOS on pass plays , was this because they feared a draw play ? or Cutler taking off ? or was they just flat out stupid ?
Inkana7
12-10-2007, 10:32 PM
Do they have a stat on those passes? that iam just going by memory iam just saying any ball thrown on the run being a play or the pocket collapses or he flushed out.
I was just watching a rerun of the Tennessee game, and they gave that stat. After the Stokley TD, it was 11 TDs, I think, 2 INTs from outside the pocket.
I'm not sure if that's gone up or not, I didn't see the Oakland game so I don't know if any of his picks were from outside the pocket.
Bronx33
12-10-2007, 10:35 PM
I was just watching a rerun of the Tennessee game, and they gave that stat. After the Stokley TD, it was 11 TDs, I think, 2 INTs from outside the pocket.
I'm not sure if that's gone up or not, I didn't see the Oakland game so I don't know if any of his picks were from outside the pocket.
All i know is cutler had zero picks yesterday :thumbsup:
There is also the chance that we played so well because.... KC Sucks (no I mean dolphins bad)
Have to agree. Lets see if we can put up W's through the rest of the season before we get Homer about one win against hapless KC.
Bronx33
12-10-2007, 11:05 PM
Have to agree. Lets see if we can put up W's through the rest of the season before we get Homer about one win against hapless KC.
We still played a solid game.
DivineLegion
12-10-2007, 11:12 PM
Actually, he has one of the highest ratings in the league when he rolls out and throws on the run
His passer rating is something like 127.5 when he rolls out :strong:
Lepsis has been catching a lot of crap all year, but he's a warrior. ACL recovery during the offseason, a groin injury in preseason. If the team had anybody to play in his place, he might have gone onto the PUP list. But Harris was drafted with a bad back, had to have surgery on his back. Kuper filled in at LT when Lepsis had the groin in preseason, but Hamilton was out also. So the team was thin at OT from TC on.
So Lepsis maybe has been playing hurt since game one. LT is a crucial position, and I think Lepsis showed some guts. Just my two cents.
As for the OL as a whole, yeah, not bad, not bad at all.
I was happy to see that old running play in the red zone inside the five where the TE would drag across the formation and plunge in over an OG. Henry had two TD's against the Raiders using that play, and I think it was used again yesterday. Remember, that was a staple running play inside the five years ago with Carswell, Griffith, TDavis. The O also ran some play-action off the same thing. The O staff tried that play after Carswell, Howard, TD retired but couldn't pull it off I guess and abandoned it for a few years. I hadn't seen that running play used much since 2003 I guess.
Nice victory, I want more.
I'm an OLine guy so i'm always trying to defend those guys. I just think Lepsis has had a subpar year in general. I understand he's coming off the knee, had some injuries but he's getting older. When does that stop being an excuse and more of where his career is going?
I still think he can play in the league but time is running short for him I fear. He has a huge contract next year, 2nd biggest on the team. He will have to renegotiate from where he is at right now. He just doesn't warrant that type of money in which we would have to give him.
We have to look at some tackle options in the offseason. Between concerns about him and Erik Pears who shouldn't even be a starter for us, we need to draft or recruit some tackle help. I say kill the weakness once and for all. We should recruit Jordan Gross through free agency (he played at Utah, maybe he feels comfortable here) and take a stab at Jeff Otah through the draft. As I said before, I don't really believe in Ryan Harris... i'm luke warm on what he'll do for us long term.
chrisp
12-11-2007, 08:17 AM
We should recruit Jordan Gross through free agency (he played at Utah, maybe he feels comfortable here) and take a stab at Jeff Otah through the draft. As I said before, I don't really believe in Ryan Harris... i'm luke warm on what he'll do for us long term.
We'd all love to get a stud LT via free agency as it would shore up the line and remind us all of Zimmerman, but these days the decent guys just don't ever seem to hit the market. I'd love to see it (and I'm sure the FO will look at it) but realistically we have to look at the draft.
With Zimmerman Minnesota basically weren't switched on to the changes that free agency involved and thought they could continue to low-ball him. We were quite innovative in capitalising on free agency in those days but I think that advantage has steadily diminished over the years as other teams have caught on and worked out how to protect their best guys. That's probably why our policy has degenerated into dragging in retreads and has-beens in an attempt to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
You just look at free agency and it isn't the all-pro shopfest it used to be. If we were one of those teams with oodles of cap space we could possibly structure a deal for someone that would be hard to match, but I don't think we will ever be one of those teams.
defenseman
12-11-2007, 10:27 AM
The offensive line. I'm surprised no one has said anything about this. The Chiefs defensive line is very good. Jared Allen, while a contemptible drunken hick, is a pretty good football player. The O-line did a great job in the run and pass game. I particularly like watching Myers and Kuper bang all those big plays up the left side while Sapp and Graham helped Lepsis completely shut Allen down.
The blocking was fantastic. Good blocking = big plays.
Thanks, offensive line. You guys are coming together (and so young too!).
Compare the houston offensive line to the chiefs, which is better?...dman
Kaylore
12-11-2007, 11:54 AM
Compare the houston offensive line to the chiefs, which is better?...dman
Houston's, though both aren't very good. That said, we should be able to make some plays on Ephraim Salaam. Remember him? We cut him. Yes he's that Ephraim Salaam.
Eldorado
12-11-2007, 12:42 PM
The offensive line. I'm surprised no one has said anything about this. The Chiefs defensive line is very good. Jared Allen, while a contemptible drunken hick, is a pretty good football player. The O-line did a great job in the run and pass game. I particularly like watching Myers and Kuper bang all those big plays up the left side while Sapp and Graham helped Lepsis completely shut Allen down.
The blocking was fantastic. Good blocking = big plays.
Thanks, offensive line. You guys are coming together (and so young too!).
rep.
Absolutely the most impressive thing was the team blocking that went on. Their o-line sux. If we can't get pressure against that crew, then we have issues. However, KC's D is good and we made them look bad. :strong:
I watched some of the game on TV again... I am absolutely positive that we have one of the best future guard combinations in the league with Kuper and Holland. I think Kuper is going to make a pro bowl or two in his day. The guy just brings the attitude we need on the line.
As I suspected and most know, we had our TE and FB's chipping the DE's almost every play running a lot of max protection. It worked though as Cutler had time to throw.
Jordan Gross is going to hit the market this year. We should take a shot at him. He is exactly the type of player we look for at OT. He would be a great pickup for us.
I haven't watched his game enough to give a clear definition of him but he's got to be as good or better than the guys we have.
Put some key players on the outside of this line and I think it could easily be the best unit we've had since the super bowl years!
The MVPlaya
12-11-2007, 03:10 PM
Why no credit to the dline either? :strong:
ayjackson
12-11-2007, 03:29 PM
Jordon Gross is not expected (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2366)to hit the open market.
Marc Columbo is another awesome RT that is slated to go UFA. Maybe between Columbo and Gross, one of them decides to test the open market. Columbo came in for a visit last year.
I think drafting a guy like Williams out of Vandy and sticking him at RT for a year, while we guage Lepsis' possible decline is another option.
Kaylore
12-11-2007, 07:05 PM
Why no credit to the dline either? :strong:
Well the Chief's offensive line is probably the worst in the league. You can start a D-line thread if you wish. the defensive tackles played better and there's a Dumervil thread around here somewhere.
Jordon Gross is not expected (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2366)to hit the open market.
Marc Columbo is another awesome RT that is slated to go UFA. Maybe between Columbo and Gross, one of them decides to test the open market. Columbo came in for a visit last year.
I think drafting a guy like Williams out of Vandy and sticking him at RT for a year, while we guage Lepsis' possible decline is another option.
They have a bunch of prominent players that are going to hit the market and only 6 million to spend right now. While there is a chance he could get resigned, its about 50/50 in my book.
We just need to make the move.
As I said before, I don't really believe in Ryan Harris... i'm luke warm on what he'll do for us long term.
Unfortunately, we haven't been able to really evaluate him this year. Anyone hear of his prognosis? ...his status? Thanks!
chrisp
12-14-2007, 12:35 PM
Houston's, though both aren't very good. That said, we should be able to make some plays on Ephraim Salaam. Remember him? We cut him. Yes he's that Ephraim Salaam.
Worth pointing out that this year Houston are joint 8 in sacks allowed with only 21.
Its also worth mentioning that when we got rid of Salaam it was becuase of his limitations in the run game, not becuase he couldn't pass-protect.
So I would say that their o-line has been upgraded, at least in terms of pass-protection this year, which is why they are still in playoff contention (just) and why a couple of no-name QBs have managed to put up decent numbers (yeah OK Shaub was a highly-rated backup but he still hadn't done anything).
azbroncfan
12-14-2007, 03:39 PM
The offensive line. I'm surprised no one has said anything about this. The Chiefs defensive line is very good. Jared Allen, while a contemptible drunken hick, is a pretty good football player.
That is BS. Outside of Jared Allen KC has garbage at DT just like Denver and Hali who will probably be pretty good but right now doesn't need double teams like Jared Allen.
Bottomline is Denver's OL get's killed when going up against a quality DL like Houston.
Only reason Denver looked so good against KC is KC plays a bend and don't break cover 2 and not an attacking one and their offense is a remake of the 2006 Oakland Raiders.
azbroncfan
12-27-2007, 02:01 AM
Yep the OL looked great because they were playing one of the worst teams in the league. Look how good the OL is against decent defensive teams 9 sacks and nothing out of the run game.
~Crash~
12-27-2007, 02:12 AM
That is BS. Outside of Jared Allen KC has garbage at DT just like Denver and Hali who will probably be pretty good but right now doesn't need double teams like Jared Allen.
Bottomline is Denver's OL get's killed when going up against a quality DL like Houston.
Only reason Denver looked so good against KC is KC plays a bend and don't break cover 2 and not an attacking one and their offense is a remake of the 2006 Oakland Raiders.
Detroit line killed us big DTs wiped us out
azbroncfan
12-27-2007, 11:08 AM
Detroit line killed us big DTs wiped us out
Yep that goes back to what I was saying. Denver's OL isn't that great and Det has a pretty good DL. OL is a huge weakspot and it shows in the run game and the pass protection. They get some decent stats against garbage teams but can't handle a good front 7 of a defense.
Good thing is they are young and can improve but OT needs to be redone on both sides of the line.
Gcver2ver3
12-27-2007, 11:19 AM
Yeah i didn't post on this thread before because i didn't want to be the party pooper of the forum....
but KC is terrible....outside of Allen their line is awful esp their DTs....
our line needs A LOT of improvement....
the KC game didn't convince me of anything....
Paladin
12-27-2007, 11:54 AM
One more year of experience.......
azbroncfan
12-27-2007, 12:28 PM
the KC game didn't convince me of anything....
It didn't convince you that KC is a top 5 worst team in the league? :P
Gcver2ver3
12-27-2007, 01:06 PM
It didn't convince you that KC is a top 5 worst team in the league? :P
well when u put it that way i guess they did convince me of something...:rofl:
Kaylore
12-28-2007, 04:00 AM
Yeah pretty much. If your offensive line is doing well, then your team dominates. If not, well you all know what happens then.
BroncoBuff
12-28-2007, 04:21 AM
The O-line did a great job in the run and pass game. I particularly like watching Myers and Kuper bang all those big plays up the left side while Sapp and Graham helped Lepsis completely shut Allen down.
YES! I especially loved how Daniel Graham irritated the hell outta that drunken hick :~ohyah!: There was two or three times I saw Allen angrily go facemask to facemask with Daniel, obviously torqued off. When I got home I watched the Tivo, and one of those plays - a long run around the left side (like you mentioned) by Selvin - Allen was taking a decent angle toward the ball when Graham blasted him sidelong, launching him into midair as Selvin ran by. It was a perfectly legal (and destructive) block, but Allen was really pissed, and for a second or two they went mask to mask, Graham just smiled as he walked away (I strongly encourage you all to find that play. The action I speak of is in the background, but it's well worth a look ;D).
I think Allen was pissed because as the play developed, he had all the O-Linemen accounted for in his head, and he's just not used to us having a TE or FB capable of broadsiding him into another Zip Code ... so he was a bit surprised. It was truly priceless.
And that's a value of Graham - he plays kinda mean. We missed that this year with Ekuban out I think, and the O-Line has needed a new Dirty Dan Neil since the day he retired.