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alkemical
12-05-2007, 03:34 PM
His language is a bit grandiose - but i don't he's far off in the direction this can be applied to (the home grow terrorism bill). - C.S.

DISSENT IN AMERICA TO BE RELABELED 'HOMEGROWN TERRORISM' (http://www.newswithviews.com/Yates/steven32.htm)

By Steven Yates
December 2, 2007
NewsWithViews.com

On October 23, 2007, the House of Representatives passed what may be the most dangerous bill ever to come down the pike. This bill, like many of its predecessors on our steady march toward totalitarianism, sailed under the radar. There was virtually no publicity or fanfare. Now, the bill has gone to the Senate, and is in committee.

The bill is called the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 (H.R. 1955/S. 1959). The language in this bill is so maddeningly vague it could mean anything. It could therefore be tailored to attack any group opposing national and international policies that have the backing of the corporatist-governmental power system.

Consider the definition offered of ‘violent radicalization’ (from Sec. 899A of the bill being referred to the Senate): “the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.”

This definition alone ought to raise your hackles! What counts as an ‘extremist belief system’? What constitutes ‘violence’? Either one is anyone’s guess, because nowhere in the bill is the word ‘extremist’ defined, nor is ‘violence’ defined. In practice, they will mean whatever federal bureaucrats or others calling the shots want them to mean. What about ‘facilitating’? This is a favorite word in today’s mushy political-correctese. Does it mean ‘causing’? Or merely ‘encouraging’? How much ‘encouragement’?

Consider the definition offered for ‘homegrown terrorism’: “the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”

No examples of ‘homegrown terrorism’ are offered.

One could understand a federal proscription against ‘the use … of force or violence…’ assuming we know what these amount to. But ‘planned’ use? What does this mean? ‘Planning’ involves thought, not action. In such ways this bill kicks open the door to the officially sanctioned creation of thought crimes that can be smuggled in under ‘homegrown terrorism’ and treated accordingly. Some critics have therefore dubbed H.R. 1955/S. 1959 as the Thought Crimes Act of 2007. They have spoken of the potential criminalization of dissent in America.

There is plenty more in this insidious bill that ought to scare the living daylights out of anyone defending basic freedoms recognized by our Constitution. Sec. 899B of the bill is entitled ‘Findings’ and consists of nine numbered paragraphs—all of them legislative land mines. There is no need to look at them all. Consider (3): “The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens.”

Again, the bill offers no definition or examples of ‘terrorist-related propaganda’ available over the Internet. The phrase could therefore again mean anything those in power want it to mean.

Or consider (6): “The potential rise of self radicalized, unaffiliated terrorists domestically cannot be easily prevented through traditional Federal intelligence or law enforcement efforts, and requires the incorporation of State and local solutions.”

Read between the lines. H.R. 1955/S. 1959 would accelerate the federalization and militarization of state and local police departments. If this bill becomes law, expect more Taser attacks on ordinary people who haven’t been charged with any crime, but refuse absolute obedience to cops acting like common bullies. Those paying attention know that there has been an epidemic of such attacks this year, the most recent being on a driver in Utah who declined to sign a traffic ticket and wanted proof that he had been speeding (innocent until proven guilty, correct?). If this bill becomes law, police militancy will increase, but with incidents sufficiently widely dispersed that few residents will detect the pattern, organize, and demand a stop to it.

Sec. 899C of the H.R. 1955/S. 1959 would establish a National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Ideologically Based Violence within the legislative branch. The Commission will consist of ten members appointed by federal officials including the president and the Secretary of Homeland Security. The bill commands the Commission in mind-numbingly repetitious language: “Examine and report upon the facts and causes of violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence in the United States, including United States connections to non-United States persons and networks, violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence in prison, individual or ‘lone wolf’ violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence, and other faces of the phenomena of violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence that the Commission considers important.”

The Commission would convene and conduct “studies” for 18 months. Very possibly it will rely on such biased sources as the Marxist Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Project, which bills itself as the gold standard for monitoring “hate groups” and “extremist” activity on U.S. soil. During this period, grassroots political groups could find themselves compelled for their own protection to do the equivalent of background checks on new members and recruits. Some would doubtless be spies sent by the SPLC or the federal government itself. They would also have to watch what they send out via email, or place on their websites. Big Brother would be watching—especially anything sent to or received from persons based overseas.

Sec. 899D creates a Center of Excellence for the Study of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism in the United States. This Center would be “university-based,” suggesting intent to pull academia into subservience. The lure, of course, will be Homeland Security dollars. The result will be more infiltration and more academic thought control, this time in the guise of the “war on terror.”

The Findings section ends: “Certain governments, including the United Kingdom, Canada, and Australia have significant experience with homegrown terrorism and the United States can benefit from lessons learned by those nations.”

Articles—on the Internet, of course—have been appearing regularly on how the U.K is becoming a total surveillance state, with cameras watching the movements of civilians everywhere. Is our government to emulate the U.K.? All three societies are slightly further down the road to police-state conditions than we are. Is that why they are suggested as good models for those who would carry out the mandates of H.R. 1955/S. 1959?

Sec. 899E elaborates: “International Effort—The Secretary shall, in cooperation with the Department of State, the Attorney General, and other Federal Government entities, as appropriate, conduct a survey of methodologies implemented by foreign nations to prevent violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism in their respective nations.” In other words, our federal government is to study foreign police states in order to build a better police state on U.S. soil. Only, however, “[t]o the extent that methodologies are permissible under the Constitution …”

If anyone at the federal level except perhaps Ron Paul had read the bill, they would realize that by its very nature it is unconstitutional. Nothing in the Constitution authorizes our federal government to model policies on those of governments elsewhere in the world—or to conduct the kind of domestic infiltrations and surveillance this bill would require.

Sec. 899F, in light of all the above, is almost comical. Are you ready? Here it comes: “The Department of Homeland Security’s efforts to prevent ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism as described herein shall not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of United States citizens or lawful permanent residents.”

George Orwell couldn’t have said it better!

Here is the million dollar question: what prompted this bill? The only event in recent years that can be labeled ‘homegrown terrorism’—given the federal government’s pronouncements as our only criterion—was the destruction of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. The federal government executed Timothy McVeigh for that on July 14, 2001. Even in that case there are unanswered questions. But while Internet-based claims persist that McVeigh had accomplices other than Terry Nichols, none are officially recognized. Other attacks on U.S. soil (World Trade Center 1993 and, of course, the 9/11 attacks) are blamed on foreigners.

So again: what prompted this bill?

There is only one plausible answer. H.R. 1955/S. 1959’s unnamed target is the independent Patriot movement.

By the ‘Patriot movement’ I mean red-blooded Americans who proudly defend gun rights, and will tell you why: an armed populace is a free populace. They have turned off their televisions and tuned out corporate-controlled media. They have removed their children from government schools. Many are men and women of modest means at best—some are living from paycheck to paycheck—and are sick and tired of bromides on behalf of NAFTA/CAFTA/FTAA, “free trade” and “globalization,” when they have seen none of the supposed benefits. They are aware that today savings are nonexistent, while bankruptcies and foreclosures are at all-time highs.

They know, moreover, that the federal government and its controlled media lie brazenly with a cooked inflation figure, a “core inflation” rate that excludes food and energy costs. For part two click below.

Click here for part -----> 2 (http://www.newswithviews.com/Yates/steven33.htm),

TailgateNut
12-05-2007, 03:42 PM
...watch out for the "thought police"! That alone scares the bejeezus out of me, considering some of my "thoughts"!:wiggle:

defenseman
12-05-2007, 03:48 PM
There is nothing wrong with responsible dissent. Irresponsible dissent is another thing. Some folks just don't understand the difference.......dman

TailgateNut
12-05-2007, 04:41 PM
There is nothing wrong with responsible dissent. Irresponsible dissent is another thing. Some folks just don't understand the difference.......dman


I don't think we have to worry about what "folks" think. It's what the goverment thinks that has me worried. (especially since they are not very good at thinking).

defenseman
12-05-2007, 04:50 PM
I don't think we have to worry about what "folks" think. It's what the goverment thinks that has me worried. (especially since they are not very good at thinking).

Perhaps. I can see where the "thought police" take could be a worry. I've got some issues with the government, however there is a limit to the method and quantities by which one should log formal and informal complaints. I stay well within those limits as a general rule.......dman

TailgateNut
12-05-2007, 04:53 PM
I see the military has trained you well. I, on the other hand don't abide by "all" the rules. I'm used to speaking up, when **** bothers me. I just don't let it fester!

defenseman
12-05-2007, 06:02 PM
I see the military has trained you well. I, on the other hand don't abide by "all" the rules. I'm used to speaking up, when **** bothers me. I just don't let it fester!

Ah, however, even in the military you can protest actions by the government. you just can't advertise your profession and be courteous in the manner of delivery. It does work...dman

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
12-05-2007, 09:19 PM
On October 23, 2007, the House of Representatives passed what may be the most dangerous bill ever to come down the pike. This bill, like many of its predecessors on our steady march toward totalitarianism, sailed under the radar. There was virtually no publicity or fanfare. Now, the bill has gone to the Senate, and is in committee.



Meanwhile, W*GS and his ilk were too focused on Chavez to notice. :oyvey:

loborugger
12-05-2007, 09:33 PM
This was a pretty predictable result of an open-ended, undefined "war on terror." Sooner or later, you just knew the focus would be (at least partially) turned internally. Watch as your grandmothers that attend church 3 or 4 times a week become labeled exetrimists.

baja
12-05-2007, 10:01 PM
"Either you are with us or you are against us" - George W. Bush, SOTU address.

The burning hot question has been since 2001 who does "Us" include.

Not you and not me that is for sure.

alkemical
12-05-2007, 11:36 PM
"Either you are with us or you are against us" - George W. Bush, SOTU address.

The burning hot question has been since 2001 who does "Us" include.

Not you and not me that is for sure.

The "decider" will "decide", Who's the decider whom decides what's best?

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Well I don't agree with that G.W. Bush.


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Oh so is that all you have to say?

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L.A. BRONCOS FAN
12-06-2007, 02:50 AM
"Either you are with us or you are against us" - George W. Bush, SOTU address.

The burning hot question has been since 2001 who does "Us" include.

Not you and not me that is for sure.

Same thing happened when Saint Ron talked about getting government off "our" backs.

Hard to believe so many Americans bought the same snake oil twice.

alkemical
02-07-2008, 02:00 PM
http://www.alternet.org/story/75244/

Pioneering Blackwater Protesters Given Secret Trial and Criminal Conviction

Last week in Currituck County, N.C., Superior Court Judge Russell Duke presided over the final step in securing the first criminal conviction stemming from the deadly actions of Blackwater Worldwide, the Bush administration's favorite mercenary company. Lest you think you missed some earth-shifting, breaking news, hold on a moment. The "criminals" in question were not the armed thugs who gunned down 17 Iraqi civilians and wounded more than 20 others in Baghdad's Nisour Square last September. They were seven nonviolent activists who had the audacity to stage a demonstration at the gates of Blackwater's 7,000-acre private military base in North Carolina to protest the actions of mercenaries acting with impunity -- and apparent immunity -- in their names and those of every American.

The arrest of the activists and the subsequent five days they spent locked up in jail is more punishment than any Blackwater mercenaries have received for their deadly actions against Iraqi civilians. "The courts pretend that adherence to the law is what makes for an orderly and peaceable world," said Steve Baggarly, one of the protest organizers. "In fact, U.S. law and courts stand idly by while the U.S. military and private armies like Blackwater have killed, maimed, brutalized and destroyed the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis."

Rigs11
02-07-2008, 02:33 PM
There is nothing wrong with responsible dissent. Irresponsible dissent is another thing. Some folks just don't understand the difference.......dman

who makes the distinction between the two? You gonna trust the govt on this?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
02-07-2008, 06:31 PM
Dissent In America To Be Relabeled 'homegrown Terrorism'

This should be welcome news to those right-wing pinheads who are constantly trying to suppress criticism of the president - unless the next president is a Democrat, that is. ;)

Dudeskey
02-07-2008, 07:40 PM
This is scary ****...

Bronco Jamus
02-07-2008, 08:03 PM
There is nothing wrong with responsible dissent. Irresponsible dissent is another thing. Some folks just don't understand the difference.......dman

Either way, the law is already on the books.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Rohirrim
02-07-2008, 08:06 PM
We need to shoot some of those save the trees, save the whales, stop the WTO, stop global warming hippie bastards. Or at least send them to Guantanamo. Actually, Raygun had a good idea. He wanted to reopen the Japanese internment camps and stick dissenters in there.

Dudeskey
02-07-2008, 08:13 PM
Either way, the law is already on the books.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That all is being declared null & void... 9/11's become such a convenient excuse to take away civil liberties

Breaker
02-07-2008, 08:15 PM
Meanwhile, W*GS and his ilk were too focused on Chavez to notice. :oyvey:

Well since you are so "focused" on the problem then why don't you email or write Rep. Jane Harman [D-CA] the sponsor of the bill to say that as an ardent left winger you think this is a terrible idea. Then you can email the other 200 odd Dems that voted for it with the same thought :thumbs:

Dudeskey
02-07-2008, 08:18 PM
Well since you are so "focused" on the problem then why don't you email or write Rep. Jane Harman [D-CA] the sponsor of the bill to say that as an ardent left winger you think this is a terrible idea. Then you can email the other 200 odd Dems that voted for it with the same thought :thumbs:

sorry to sound apathetic, but do you honestly think they give a **** what we think? Especially when those votes are bought & paid for by "campaign contributions"

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
02-07-2008, 08:43 PM
Well since you are so "focused" on the problem then why don't you email or write Rep. Jane Harman [D-CA] the sponsor of the bill to say that as an ardent left winger you think this is a terrible idea. Then you can email the other 200 odd Dems that voted for it with the same thought :thumbs:

We can always count on you for this sort of non-sequitur. :oyvey:

In any event, doing all of the above would place me several steps ahead of you, wouldn't it?

Breaker
02-08-2008, 02:55 PM
We can always count on you for this sort of non-sequitur. :oyvey:

In any event, doing all of the above would place me several steps ahead of you, wouldn't it?

You are the one that stated "This should be welcome news to those right-wing pinheads who are constantly trying to suppress criticism of the president - unless the next president is a Democrat, that is" and " this is the sort of thing that W*gs ......", thus implying that this is a bill that Republicans were either responsible for or would support when it is a Democrat who sponsored the bill in the first place. But don't let that get in the way of your vitriolic diatribe against conservatives.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
02-08-2008, 04:57 PM
You are the one that stated "This should be welcome news to those right-wing pinheads who are constantly trying to suppress criticism of the president - unless the next president is a Democrat, that is" and " this is the sort of thing that W*gs ......", thus implying that this is a bill that Republicans were either responsible for or would support when it is a Democrat who sponsored the bill in the first place. But don't let that get in the way of your vitriolic diatribe against conservatives.

:stupid:

Either your reading comprehension game is more f@*ked up than I thought, or you are simply an aspiring straw man artist in the mold of W*GS.

1) I didn't say W*GS supported the bill - I said he was too busy focusing on Chavez to notice it.

2) The repug rank and file do indeed have a track record of trying to squelch criticism of Dubya - (this board is a perfect example - oh, wait: you haven't been here long enough to know that history, have you?) irrespective of who sponsored the bill.

24champ
02-08-2008, 05:15 PM
You are the one that stated "This should be welcome news to those right-wing pinheads who are constantly trying to suppress criticism of the president - unless the next president is a Democrat, that is" and " this is the sort of thing that W*gs ......", thus implying that this is a bill that Republicans were either responsible for or would support when it is a Democrat who sponsored the bill in the first place. But don't let that get in the way of your vitriolic diatribe against conservatives.

(LABF Impression) Bingo. :yep:

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
02-08-2008, 05:22 PM
(LABF Impression) Bingo. :yep:

:oyvey:

Oh well - I guess I have to consider the source here...

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/a/a8/Republican-koolaid.jpg