Mistake costs dishwasher $59,000 [Archive] - The Orange Mane

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El Minion

12-04-2007, 08:58 PM

Mistake costs dishwasher $59,000 (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/27/immigrant.money/index.html)
Story Highlights
Guatemala native Pedro Zapeta a dishwasher in the U.S. for 11 years
The illegal immigrant tried to bring $59,000 in savings back to Guatemala
U.S. customs seized cash when Zapeta failed to fill out form declaring money
Zapeta, who tried to get the money back for two years, now faces deportation
From John Zarrella and Patrick Oppmann
CNN
MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- For 11 years, Pedro Zapeta, an illegal immigrant from Guatemala, lived his version of the American dream in Stuart, Florida: washing dishes and living frugally to bring money back to his home country.

Two years ago, Zapeta was ready to return to Guatemala, so he carried a duffel bag filled with $59,000 -- all the cash he had scrimped and saved over the years -- to the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport.

But when Zapeta tried to go through airport security, an officer spotted the money in the bag and called U.S. customs officials.

"They asked me how much money I had," Zapeta recalled, speaking to CNN in Spanish.

He told the customs officials $59,000. At that point, U.S. customs seized his money, setting off a two-year struggle for Zapeta to get it back. Zapeta describes how he lost his money »

Zapeta, who speaks no English, said he didn't know he was running afoul of U.S. law by failing to declare he was carrying more than $10,000 with him. Anyone entering or leaving the country with more than $10,000 has to fill out a one-page form declaring the money to U.S. customs.

Officials initially accused Zapeta of being a courier for the drug trade, but they dropped the allegation once he produced pay stubs from restaurants where he had worked. Zapeta earned $5.50 an hour at most of the places where he washed dishes. When he learned to do more, he got a 25-cent raise.

After customs officials seized the money, they turned Zapeta over to the Immigration and Naturalization Service. The INS released him but began deportation proceedings. For two years, Zapeta has had two attorneys working pro bono: one on his immigration case, the other trying to get his money back.

"They are treating me like a criminal when all I am is a working man," he said.

Zapeta's story became public last year on CNN and in The Palm Beach Post newspaper, prompting well-wishers to give him nearly $10,000 -- money that now sits in a trust.

Robert Gershman,one of Zapeta's attorneys, said federal prosecutors later offered his client a deal: He could take $10,000 of the original cash seized, plus $9,000 in donations as long as he didn't talk publicly and left the country immediately.

Zapeta said, "No." He wanted all his money. He'd earned it, he said.

Now, according to Gershman, the Internal Revenue Service wants access to the donated cash to cover taxes on the donations and on the money Zapeta made as a dishwasher. Zapeta admits he never paid taxes.

CNN contacted the U.S. Attorneys office in Miami, U.S. Customs and the IRS about Zapeta's case. They all declined to comment.

Marisol Zequeira, an immigration lawyer, said illegal immigrants such as Zapeta have few options when dealing with the U.S. government.

"When you are poor, uneducated and illegal, your avenues are cut," he said.

On Wednesday, Zapeta went to immigration court and got more bad news. The judge gave the dishwasher until the end of January to leave the country on his own. He's unlikely to see a penny of his money.

"I am desperate," Zapeta said. "I no longer feel good about this country."

Zapeta said his goal in coming to the United States was to make enough money to buy land in his mountain village and build a home for his mother and sisters. He sent no money back to Guatemala over the years, he said, and planned to bring it all home at once.

At Wednesday's hearing, Zapeta was given official status in the United States -- voluntary departure -- and a signed order from a judge. For the first time, he can work legally in the U.S.

By the end of January, Zapeta may be able to earn enough money to pay for a one-way ticket home so the U.S. government, which seized his $59,000, doesn't have to do so.

orinjkrush

12-04-2007, 09:29 PM

illegal?

sorry charlie

Rohirrim

12-04-2007, 10:51 PM

"I am desperate," Zapeta said. "I no longer feel good about this country."

:oyvey: What arrogance. Obviously, Sr. Zapeta feels that laws don't apply to him.

cutthemdown

12-05-2007, 01:20 AM

good we should be able to take anything illegals make IMO. Maybe then they would just go live in their own countries.

Rigs11

12-05-2007, 01:41 AM

alkemical

12-05-2007, 01:44 AM

cutthemdown

12-05-2007, 02:15 AM

TailgateNut

12-05-2007, 09:49 AM

defenseman

12-05-2007, 10:09 AM

You guys are pathetic.Here we always hear about how illegals are criminals and they run people over when drunk, and they rape women..blah blah blah. Here this guy busts his ass washing dishes and loses his money, and you guys jump all over his case. Turn off the lou dobbs already.

Are you saying that never happens? Are you saying that there aren't multitudes of illegal alien "criminals" presently locked up in american jails? Are you saying there aren't "gangs" of illegal aliens in major cities, border towns etc..etc...trafficing drugs and violently enforcing their own brand of illegal justice through intimidation, maiming and murder? Are you saying this freaking idiot WASN'T ILLEGAL? If, you are stating the queries I listed, you are a complete fool, utter and absolute fool. And you and your ilk will be the downfall of this country, IF we allow you too. The man was illegal, HE HAS NO RIGHTS. ZIP, NADA, ZERO RIGHTS. Take him to the border, and flush his dum a$$. And, if he attempts to enter the country again, warn him, then drop him where he stands when he attempts to cross...simple solution, quickly solves the problem...he's a grown man, I'm sure he will understand his mortality is just a whisker away if he doesn't abide by our immigration laws....And don't say, he needs an interpreter, f**k him, he's had 11 years to attempt assimilation through learning the english language, he didn't even get that right. A real stupid MF'er wouldn't you say?........dman

Hotrod

12-05-2007, 10:37 AM

Wait a freaking second. After taxes he would have been bringing home around 9,000 a year. Now 11 years thats 99,000. If he ate and rented a place to live in that part of FL he would have a net total of negative 15,000.

I say give "his" $ to Travis Henrys kids.

Rohirrim

12-05-2007, 10:43 AM

Rigs11

12-05-2007, 01:44 PM

Tax evasion is a serious crime. I applaud him however for not killing or raping anyone he is a credit to his race.

Where does it say in his article anything about tax evasion?

Bronco Bob

12-05-2007, 01:58 PM

How do we determine that this money wasn't "earned" through drug dealings.
@$5.50 an hour it would be nearly impossible to save $59000.00!

I thought the burden of proof was on the accuser. How do we determine
that he didn't rub a magic lamp and a genie gave him the money?
How do we determine the tooth fairy wasn't feeling especially generous
one night and slipped it under his pillow after he lost a tooth?
Or that Santa Claus slipped the money in his Christmas stocking?

As for the time it would take to earn the money, at $5.50 an hour
it would take 10,727 hours. Working 8 hours a day it would take him
1341 days. 5 days a week works out to 268 weeks. 56 weeks a year
works out to 4.8 years. And if he worked more than 8 hours a day
and more than 5 days a week he could have made the money even
faster. He was in the country 11 years, more than enough time to
make the money.

Rigs11

12-05-2007, 02:01 PM

Are you saying that never happens? Are you saying that there aren't multitudes of illegal alien "criminals" presently locked up in american jails? Are you saying there aren't "gangs" of illegal aliens in major cities, border towns etc..etc...trafficing drugs and violently enforcing their own brand of illegal justice through intimidation, maiming and murder? Are you saying this freaking idiot WASN'T ILLEGAL? If, you are stating the queries I listed, you are a complete fool, utter and absolute fool. And you and your ilk will be the downfall of this country, IF we allow you too. The man was illegal, HE HAS NO RIGHTS. ZIP, NADA, ZERO RIGHTS. Take him to the border, and flush his dum a$$. And, if he attempts to enter the country again, warn him, then drop him where he stands when he attempts to cross...simple solution, quickly solves the problem...he's a grown man, I'm sure he will understand his mortality is just a whisker away if he doesn't abide by our immigration laws....And don't say, he needs an interpreter, **** him, he's had 11 years to attempt assimilation through learning the english language, he didn't even get that right. A real stupid MF'er wouldn't you say?........dman

no genius, I'm not saying that that never happens, but what would you like to bet that for the most part it doesn't. Would you like some figures? Cuz i can give you some. you're the idiot that instead of finding real solutions to the problem, you go off on this ridicoulous tough guy crap to deport everyone, or build a freaking fence. I'm still waiting for an answer from your ilk on who is gonna build your freaking fence.Your moronic view on illegals in no way attempts to even come close to a solution of replacing these people in crappy jobs that americans simply wont do.Are you willing to pay $10 for a pound of tomatoes?Are you willing to pay more for a new home?Do you have any buddies that will tar the roads? or hey how about wax the mall floors?All this for minimum wage?Now put yourself in his situation where you are born into poverty in a poor country.You need to supply money to better yourself or your family. What would you do?At least this guy worked, unlike the thousands of americans thas sit on their asses and collect welfare. where is your outrage at that?

TheDave

12-05-2007, 02:04 PM

I thought the burden of proof was on the accuser. How do we determine
that he didn't rub a magic lamp and a genie gave him the money?
How do we determine the tooth fairy wasn't feeling especially generous
one night and slipped it under his pillow after he lost a tooth?
Or that Santa Claus slipped the money in his Christmas stocking?

As for the time it would take to earn the money, at $5.50 an hour
it would take 10,727 hours. Working 8 hours a day it would take him
1341 days. 5 days a week works out to 268 weeks. 56 weeks a year
works out to 4.8 years. And if he worked more than 8 hours a day
and more than 5 days a week he could have made the money even
faster. He was in the country 11 years, more than enough time to
make the money.

What kind of ****ed up calender is that...:)

Rigs11

12-05-2007, 02:05 PM

How do we determine that this money wasn't "earned" through drug dealings.
@$5.50 an hour it would be nearly impossible to save $59000.00!

there are 2080 work hours in a year.That's not counting possible overtime.in a year he would make roughly $11440 before taxes. he was here 11 years.

TailgateNut

12-05-2007, 02:10 PM

there are 2080 work hours in a year.That's not counting possible overtime.in a year he would make roughly $11440 before taxes. he was here 11 years.

So I guess he didn't eat, drink nor have a roof over his head. He didn't drive, have insurance, or filled his tank with gas. He also didn't pay taxes.

HMMMMM?

Bronco Bob

12-05-2007, 02:16 PM

What kind of ****ed up calender is that...:)

Okay, 52 weeks in a year. That works out to 5.1 years. Still plenty of time.

defenseman

12-05-2007, 02:40 PM

no genius, I'm not saying that that never happens, but what would you like to bet that for the most part it doesn't. Would you like some figures? Cuz i can give you some. you're the idiot that instead of finding real solutions to the problem, you go off on this ridicoulous tough guy crap to deport everyone, or build a freaking fence. I'm still waiting for an answer from your ilk on who is gonna build your freaking fence.Your moronic view on illegals in no way attempts to even come close to a solution of replacing these people in crappy jobs that americans simply wont do.Are you willing to pay $10 for a pound of tomatoes?Are you willing to pay more for a new home?Do you have any buddies that will tar the roads? or hey how about wax the mall floors?All this for minimum wage?Now put yourself in his situation where you are born into poverty in a poor country.[/B[B]]You need to supply money to better yourself or your family. What would you do?At least this guy worked, unlike the thousands of americans thas sit on their asses and collect welfare. where is your outrage at that?

-Enforcing the law isn't a solution? You are embarrassing yourself here.

-there is already legislation and money for 700 + miles of fense, approved. Again, the money is there. Unfortunately, it hasn't happened yet. I hang that squarely on Pres. Bush. He has let us all down on this.

-While the cost of some goods would go up, the real cost increase is not as much as you believe. A nickel or dime more per item whose cost actually rose, is a much more realistic number. Definitely not near the earth shattering $10/pd for tomatoes.

-New home cost would go up agreed. Since I own my home, I'm not real worried about that right now. However, yes you would see a slight increase in cost, and time to build I might add, until the lost labor was filled with new employees. Plenty of folks will do construction work.

-the malls and roads will survive the short duration until the open jobs are filled with legal employees.

-If i couldn't find solid and reliable work for my family and myself, I would apply for a working visa, and go to work in the states LEGALLY.

-WELFARE has nothing to do with it stay on subject. We are talking about illegal aliens, not lazy a$$ed no load welfare sucking , the "entitlement parties" wet dreams, downtrodden fools. there's my outrage, now get back on subject....dman

Garcia Bronco

12-05-2007, 03:11 PM

I am all for kicking illegals out of the country, but if the guy earned the money they need to give it back with interest.

Bronco Bob

12-05-2007, 03:13 PM

I am all for kicking illegals out of the country, but if the guy earned the money they need to give it back with interest.

Give him his money back. Send him home. And everybody is happy.

cutthemdown

12-05-2007, 03:27 PM

I am all for kicking illegals out of the country, but if the guy earned the money they need to give it back with interest.

As long as he paid all the tax and the tax penalties I wouldn't have a problem. I'm pretty sure though that taking all your untaxed money and trying to flee the country would result in prison time and a huge fine. He's better off just being let go IMO.

defenseman

12-05-2007, 03:33 PM

As long as he paid all the tax and the tax penalties I wouldn't have a problem. I'm pretty sure though that taking all your untaxed money and trying to flee the country would result in prison time and a huge fine. He's better off just being let go IMO.

He needs to be fingerprinted, logged, photo's and told never to return. However, yep, once the tax man says he's square, boot his butt AFTER he rolls over on some of his cohorts in the area.......dman

*Who employed him? Hammer the living dogs**t out of the bastard. make an example of him.

TailgateNut

12-05-2007, 03:36 PM

@ 59000.00 over 11 years = 5663.63 per year diveded by 12 mo = 446.96 per month divided by 4 weeks = 111.74 per week.

If he were paid (untaxed) $5.50 p. hr., that equals 220 per week (- the saved 111.74 =108.26 per week (untaxed spending money).

someone tell me how do you live on this amount?
Consider rent, food, clothing,transportation and incidentals.
If he did live in the "low rent district", where did he keep the $59000.00?

This sounds like a plate of BS!

Crushaholic

12-05-2007, 03:49 PM

Where does it say in his article anything about tax evasion?

This sentence in the article mentions tax evasion:

Zapeta admits he never paid taxes

He may be a hard worker (since he allegedly saved $59,000). However, he doesn't love this country enough to follow our laws...

defenseman

12-05-2007, 03:50 PM

alkemical

12-05-2007, 03:52 PM

This sentence in the article mentions tax evasion:

Zapeta admits he never paid taxes

He may be a hard worker (since he allegedly saved $59,000). However, he doesn't love this country enough to follow our laws...

Do you speed? Do you always wear your seatbelt? Do you ever pee outside?

Hotrod

12-05-2007, 04:11 PM

Do you speed? Do you always wear your seatbelt? Do you ever pee outside?

Yes, No and quite often and if caught would face a penalty

defenseman

12-05-2007, 04:27 PM

Do you speed? Do you always wear your seatbelt? Do you ever pee outside?

No, Yes and No...in that order. Gee, did I pass the quiz?...dman

Garcia Bronco

12-05-2007, 04:31 PM

He needs to pay taxes ont he income as well, but after that...send him on his way.

TailgateNut

12-05-2007, 04:37 PM

Yes, No and quite rarely (I don't hike/ camp etc too often anymore).

How about farting in public? Does it compare to Tax evasion???

kappys

12-05-2007, 04:39 PM

defenseman

12-05-2007, 04:41 PM

Tax evasion is a federal statuate, punishable in federal court. He needs to pay his freaking taxes, NOW, then process in all respects followed by immediate deportation, never to return...dman

*However, some POS liberal stinking lawyer will come to this ILLEGAL ALIEN's defense and rack up all kinds of legal bills on behalf of the US federal taxpayer based on some misguided ideology. On second thought, charge the lawyer with paying the legal costs to the american taxpayer, freaking POS..dman

defenseman

12-05-2007, 04:42 PM

Somehow I'm betting the guy worked a lot more than 40 hours a week.

No matter, pay your taxes and get the hell out of the country..dman

kappys

12-05-2007, 05:29 PM

No matter, pay your taxes and get the hell out of the country..dman

Agreed. Just stating that saving 59000 dollars a year for 11 years is not unreasonable even on minimum wage.

cutthemdown

12-05-2007, 05:32 PM

He needs to pay taxes ont he income as well, but after that...send him on his way.

I'd have no problem with that.

cutthemdown

12-05-2007, 05:34 PM

Somehow I'm betting the guy worked a lot more than 40 hours a week.

If he is legit then I would agree with that. More then likely if the dude was earning the money legally he'd be looking at more like 60 hrs a week.

Hotrod

12-05-2007, 05:35 PM

IMO The cost of living in S Florida makes it unlikely he could have saved up that much $ on minimum wage. I guess maybe if he was living for free with someone else.

cutthemdown

12-05-2007, 07:34 PM

IMO The cost of living in S Florida makes it unlikely he could have saved up that much $ on minimum wage. I guess maybe if he was living for free with someone else.

I guess a week in cuba might get it out of him. I say we waterboard him until he confesses he earned the money stealing from whitey.

Bronco Bob

12-05-2007, 10:13 PM

Do you speed? Do you always wear your seatbelt? Do you ever pee outside?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

alkemical

12-05-2007, 11:53 PM

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes, No and quite often and if caught would face a penalty

No, Yes and No...in that order. Gee, did I pass the quiz?...dman

____

Well since you don't follow the laws, you aren't a good citizen.

(Just illustrating a point, nothing personal)

Hotrod

12-06-2007, 10:48 AM

I guess a week in cuba might get it out of him. I say we waterboard him until he confesses he earned the money stealing from whitey.

Um say what Ha!

Rohirrim

12-06-2007, 10:59 AM

The United States is the only country on Earth that gets castigated for having immigration laws.

defenseman

12-06-2007, 11:21 AM

The United States is the only country on Earth that gets castigated for having immigration laws.

yep, and we lead the world with humanitarian help all over the globe. The "world" is a very hypocritical place sometimes. Too bad we don't have the guts to call them on it. All the more reason to get off the oil teet as soon as possible..dman

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

12-06-2007, 11:36 AM

I am all for kicking illegals out of the country, but if the guy earned the money they need to give it back with interest.

Bullsh*t.

He was working here illegally.

Can you name any other instance in which you are allowed to keep money you have made through illegal activity?

Why should this a$$hole get special treatment?

alkemical

12-06-2007, 12:46 PM

Bullsh*t.

He was working here illegally.

Can you name any other instance in which you are allowed to keep money you have made through illegal activity?

Why should this a$$hole get special treatment?

If noone finds out you can.

Breaker

12-06-2007, 05:21 PM

Do you speed? Do you always wear your seatbelt? Do you ever pee outside?

Yea and if you get caught you pay a fine for those transgressions, you know money. Gee this guy worked here illegally and tried to take money out of our economy to go home, seems like an immigration fine to me. Guess that makes it in line with how we treat all of our other "minor" criminal cases.

alkemical

12-06-2007, 11:50 PM

Yea and if you get caught you pay a fine for those transgressions, you know money. Gee this guy worked here illegally and tried to take money out of our economy to go home, seems like an immigration fine to me. Guess that makes it in line with how we treat all of our other "minor" criminal cases.

I just get tired of hearing how people always obey the laws when it's a farce.

baja

12-06-2007, 11:54 PM

Yea and if you get caught you pay a fine for those transgressions, you know money. Gee this guy worked here illegally and tried to take money out of our economy to go home, seems like an immigration fine to me. Guess that makes it in line with how we treat all of our other "minor" criminal cases.

There are a lot of heartless bastards here but you may be the queen of all the heartless bastards, congratulations.

defenseman

12-07-2007, 10:12 AM

There are a lot of heartless bastards here but you may be the queen of all the heartless bastards, congratulations.

And that would make you what? "king" of the bleeding hearts?...dman

baja

12-07-2007, 10:29 AM

Bronco Bob

12-07-2007, 10:34 AM

And that would make you what? "king" of the bleeding hearts?...dman

Interestingly the term "bleeding heart" comes from the depiction of Jesus's
bleeding heart as depicted in several religious paintings. So it's sort of
ironic that the right would use the term "bleeding heart" as a way to
ridicule the left when the right seem to think they own Jesus.
What you are really doing is criticizing Baja Fan for being to much
like Jesus, ie caring about the poor and unfortunate.

The original bleeding heart liberal:

TailgateNut

12-07-2007, 10:37 AM

Interestingly the term "bleeding heart" comes from the depiction of Jesus's
bleeding heart as depicted in several religious paintings. So it's sort of
ironic that the right would use the term "bleeding heart" as a way to
ridicule the left when the right seem to think they own Jesus.
What you are really doing is criticizing Baja Fan for being to much
like Jesus, ie caring about the poor and unfortunate.

The original bleeding heart liberal:

Thanks for the Laugh!

True, but funny! We may not be the "religious right", but we are right in our compassion!

defenseman

12-07-2007, 11:10 AM

You really want to take the guys dish washing money away from him?

You always have simple solutions for very complex problems Dman. I have never seen one of your ideas that was workable. You are a brain washed guy full of hate and fear. Retirement will suck for you sir, sorry to say.

Simple solution, enforce the law of the land. I have no problem with that. Brainwashed? Far from it, I pick my battles and win quite often in life, and professionally. I would suggest you should be the one to worry about being brainwashed. Hate? nope, it's called enforcement of the law. Taking some drug runners life as he attempted to inject our society with his foul drugs wouldn't be hate, it would be a reason to have a tall cold beer and relax. One less scumbag to worry about. Fear? I fear for the other citizens of this country, on the border having to put up with illlegal SCUM coming across our borders, of note: you saw ILLEGAL did you not. I personally have no fear, I can well protect myself and family however is required. And, I'd have no problem helping with the securing of the border, as long as I could arm myself, and am allowed to engage the drug runner types with deadly force, I'm confident with my odds. As far as retirement, who are you svengali? You have no idea who I am, what i do for entertainment, or any of my interests. Fortunately, I discount statements such as yours with respect to my retirement as mire dribble, much to your discontent, I will absolutely enjoy the hell out of my retirement, wherever I travel and whatever I do. Why? You have to enjoy life in general day to day, it takes practice sometimes but if you give it chance, it is a lot of fun to be alive, in the good ole US of A of course...dman

*And yes, take his freaking money then drop kick him across the border. He is in fact ILLEGAL, I could care less.

Hotrod

12-07-2007, 11:18 AM

And that would make you what? "king" of the bleeding hearts?...dman

Sorry Baja but that was ****ing funny Ha!

baja

12-07-2007, 11:22 AM

Unless you are a Native American you or someone in your linage had to be an illegal immigrant.

As much as you post here seems you are already retired, are you an example of my tax dollars at work?

Rohirrim

12-07-2007, 11:27 AM

defenseman

12-07-2007, 11:34 AM

Unless you are a Native American you or someone in your linage had to be an illegal immigrant.

As much as you post here seems you are already retired, are you an example of my tax dollars at work?

What shift do I work Baja? Any idea? Any idea what exactly I do? Exactly? Get over it. I complete my mission each and everytime, each day, each week, that's all you or anybody else for that matter needs to know...dman

You worry about you, I know what I do and what I've done, and i've earned every red cent that I earned, and my family and I have paid dearly over the years in ways you can never imagine, to do what I do. That said, look in the mirror, I know I've done my job over the years, critique yourself, my career accomplishments are well documented where they need to be.

defenseman

12-07-2007, 11:36 AM

It's kind of funny to me. If I snuck into another country illegally, worked a job illegally, illegally got around paying taxes, and then tried to sneak out of the country with my money, illegally, and then got caught, I would say, "Oh well, I got caught." This guy says, "I don't like this country anymore." Ha!

You are correct, my goodness they are really going to enforce their laws?,,on me? You bad people you, I don't like you anymore...ROFL! .LOL ..hilarious...dman

Hotrod

12-07-2007, 11:38 AM

What shift do I work Baja? Any idea? Any idea what exactly I do? Exactly? Get over it. I complete my mission each and everytime, each day, each week, that's all you or anybody else for that matter needs to know...dman

You worry about you, I know what I do and what I've done, and i've earned every red cent that I earned, and my family and I have paid dearly over the years in ways you can never imagine, to do what I do. That said, look in the mirror, I know I've done my job over the years, critique yourself, my career accomplishments are well documented where they need to be.

I for one respect and am thankful for what you and people like you have done.

defenseman

12-07-2007, 11:40 AM

[QUOTE=baja fan;1809624]Unless you are a Native American you or someone in your linage had to be an illegal immigrant.

QUOTE]

i will however, be taking a three or four month vacation shortly, paid I might add. All kinds of bennies you get when you retire after 30 yrs of military service, save up some significant leave days and get additional allotted time off for career transition. Looking forward to my paid vacation.......dman

*Ever heard of ELLIS ISLAND?....they were in fact, legal were they not?

defenseman

12-07-2007, 11:49 AM

I for one respect and am thankful for what you and people like you have done.

Appreciate it. If folks new the sacrifice alone my family has had to make over the last 30 years, they'd be shocked. And if you served, you will always have my respect, nothing can replace serving ones country.........dman

baja

12-07-2007, 11:49 AM

defenseman

12-07-2007, 12:17 PM

i hope you have a great time on your leave.

I was in the Army for almost three years and did see many a career soldier on the gravy train big time, you know it happens and I know it happens, if you are not one of those than good for you. You are right I do not know your circumstances only you do.

And for your service, I thank you. And I'll agree with you, there are some gravy trainers out there. However, I, like you I'm sure given the way you stick to your guns, have never been on board that particular train. I'm a mission guy, always have been, give me a mission, it gets done, whatever the cost or sacrifice necessary. It can be no other way...dman

*And as we muck it up, know always, spirited banter is a good thing. Nothing like open discussion to raise one's awareness.

TailgateNut

12-07-2007, 12:20 PM

[QUOTE=baja fan;1809624]Unless you are a Native American you or someone in your linage had to be an illegal immigrant.

QUOTE]

That is not always true. Many "Americans" are decendants of legal immigrants!

baja

12-07-2007, 01:00 PM

[QUOTE=baja fan;1809624]Unless you are a Native American you or someone in your linage had to be an illegal immigrant.

QUOTE]

That is not always true. Many "Americans" are descendants of legal immigrants!

I was responding to Dman about his distaste toward illegals.

My point was, for the most part, we stole this country from it's legal owners, the native American and the Spanish. Not only were most of our ancestors illegal aliens but invaders as well, just the facts.

TailgateNut

12-07-2007, 01:11 PM

[QUOTE=TailgateNut;1809697]

I was responding to Dman about his distaste toward illegals.

My point was, for the most part, we stole this country from it's legal owners, the native American and the Spanish. Not only were most of our ancestors illegal aliens but invaders as well, just the facts.

Okee dokee!

We should all go back to our ancestral homes. RIGHT!

Let's keep it real!

baja

12-07-2007, 01:15 PM

[QUOTE=baja fan;1809737]

Okee dokee!

We should all go back to our ancestral homes. RIGHT!

Let's keep it real!

Never said that just pointing at one time or another most of us or our forefathers got here by less than honorable circumstances.

TailgateNut

12-07-2007, 01:17 PM

[QUOTE=TailgateNut;1809745]

Never said that just pointing at one time or another most of us or our forefathers got here by less than honorable circumstances.

So are you saying that the MAJORITY of our ancestors didn't come here legally? I know mine did!

baja

12-07-2007, 01:26 PM

[QUOTE=baja fan;1809750]

So are you saying that the MAJORITY of our ancestors didn't come here legally? I know mine did!

This is not worth going on about, my point is that yes there has been millions of legal immigrants but they immigrated to a place that was illegally gotten.

It's a "He that has not sinned cast the first stone " sort of a thing. ;D

defenseman

12-07-2007, 01:39 PM

[QUOTE=TailgateNut;1809752]

This is not worth going on about, my point is that yes there has been millions of legal immigrants but they immigrated to a place that was illegally gotten.

It's a "He that has not sinned cast the first stone " sort of a thing. ;D

I'm afraid that train has left the station and won't be going back. What is done, is in fact, done. There is no earthly way to turn back time to correct issues of the past, i know I'm not willing to shoulder the blame for the sins of the past whatever they may be. A society, like each person in it, should be afforded the opportunity to learn from it's past mistakes for the most part. So, like you said, I agree, it's not worth going on about...dman

baja

12-07-2007, 02:01 PM

[QUOTE=baja fan;1809756]

I'm afraid that train has left the station and won't be going back. What is done, is in fact, done. There is no earthly way to turn back time to correct issues of the past, i know I'm not willing to shoulder the blame for the sins of the past whatever they may be. A society, like each person in it, should be afforded the opportunity to learn from it's past mistakes for the most part. So, like you said, I agree, it's not worth going on about...dman

My final post on this matter.

I agree we need we have a huge immigration problem and it needs to be fixed all I'm saying is lets fix it with compassion for those caught up in the broken system we now suffer under

TailgateNut

12-07-2007, 02:07 PM

[QUOTE=defenseman;1809764]

My final post on this matter.

I agree we need we have a huge immigration problem and it needs to be fixed all I'm saying is lets fix it with compassion for those caught up in the broken system we now suffer under

How about compassion for those who have waited for years using legal avenues to gain entry into the US.
**** compassion for those who spat on our laws and jumped in line.

Sorry, my compassion has it's limits.

Send them to the back of the line. PERIOD!!!!!!!

defenseman

12-07-2007, 02:10 PM

[QUOTE=baja fan;1809778]

How about compassion for those who have waited for years using legal avenues to gain entry into the US.
**** compassion for those who spat on our laws and jumped in line.

Sorry, my compassion has it's limits.

Send them to the back of the line. PERIOD!!!!!!!

the website is inadvertently assigning incorrect posters to a post.....dman

baja

12-07-2007, 02:11 PM

Ya the quote thing seems to be screwed up

defenseman

12-07-2007, 02:12 PM

Ya the quote thing seems to be screwed up

It is indeed...dman

Rigs11

12-07-2007, 03:01 PM

You are correct, my goodness they are really going to enforce their laws?,,on me? You bad people you, I don't like you anymore...ROFL! .LOL ..hilarious...dman

Yeah and yet when the schmuck in office breaks laws repeadetely and shet's all over the constitution you look the other way.bravo.

TailgateNut

12-07-2007, 03:10 PM

Yeah and yet when the schmuck in office breaks laws repeadetely and shet's all over the constitution you look the other way.bravo.

What laws is the "smuck" in the office breaking, that would have the same effect on our country as the immigration dilemna has.

baja

12-07-2007, 03:16 PM

What laws is the "smuck" in the office breaking, that would have the same effect on our country as the immigration dilemna has.

How about lying to force an attack on Iraq for starters

Garcia Bronco

12-07-2007, 03:34 PM

Unless you are a Native American you or someone in your linage had to be an illegal immigrant.

I am 1/4 Cherokee Indian, but the welsh side of my family legally immigrated here. So I don't really understand what you're talking about.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

12-07-2007, 08:24 PM

It's kind of funny to me. If I snuck into another country illegally, worked a job illegally, illegally got around paying taxes, and then tried to sneak out of the country with my money, illegally, and then got caught, I would say, "Oh well, I got caught." This guy says, "I don't like this country anymore." Ha!

Yep.

I'm not sure which angers me more: the fact that this pissant was able to enter this country illegally and secure employment here or his unabashed contempt for our laws.