Now that Chavez lost , pick the new Boogie man

[Spider]

...... The republicans are now looking for a new boogie man . I wonder who it will be .....

[Bronco Bob]

They still have Amadinneroll over in Iran.

[The Lone Bolt]

I'll believe that Chavez has lost when he actually steps down, which I don't think will happen.

[Spider]

I'll believe that Chavez has lost when he actually steps down, which I don't think will happen.

Still clinging to the old boogie man hey lone ...... maybe Chavez can make a come back .... loyalty Lone , you are loyal

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Still clinging to the old boogie man hey lone ...... maybe Chavez can make a come back .... loyalty Lone , you are loyal

:yep: :laugh:

LB sounds like he has his fingers crossed.

Either Chavez needs to stick around or Iraq's WMD need to turn up in Caracas.

[ant1999e]

A little premature isn't it Spider? I hear that's typical of you.

[Spider]

A little premature isn't it Spider? I hear that's typical of you.

your sister has a big mouth ......

[defenseman]

your sister has a big mouth ......

freaking spider...:notworthy hilarious...dman

[cutthemdown]

A little premature isn't it Spider? I hear that's typical of you.

Dude has more kids then an illegal Mexican with no money for rubbers so he must be doing something right.

[Spider]

Dude has more kids then an illegal Mexican with no money for rubbers so he must be doing something right.

Rubbers ? goofy it wasnt raining in the bedroom , didnt need rubbers ;D

[cutthemdown]

Chavez stillhas what 3-4 years left on his term? He has plenty of time to remian the boogyman. Problem is that Bush will soon be gone as soon as it turns into the new year he will be a lame duck and almost through. Sure Bush will probably right off some land to the national parks and make a bunch of last minute pardons and decrees but really I don't see him being able to mount an offensive agianst Iran in 12 months time. More then likely Bush will just try and wrap up the surge in Iraq and pull troops back some before the election.

[Dudeskey]

Count on our equivelent to Emmanuel Goldstein: Bin Laden. Just ask Giulliani

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

your sister has a big mouth ......

LOL ^5 :yayaya:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

...... The republicans are now looking for a new boogie man . I wonder who it will be .....

They will probably wait until Chavez is nearing the end of his last term and then do their utmost to get their oil industry/globalist-friendly guy installed in his place.

[spdirty]

the camel f@cker in Iran, the commie bastard in Russia, Mexico, China, North Korea, the ACLU, and, of course, Hillary. However, France is cool now. At least Sarkozy is.

So tell me Spider, LABF, slug, bronco bob, nut, etc., in January of '09, who are yooooou gonna pick to be your new boogeyman?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

...... The republicans are now looking for a new boogie man . I wonder who it will be .....Chavez didn't really concede he lost even though he said he did. It's obvious he is going to try something else to be dictator down there.

Chavez quickly accepted defeat and called for calm. The fiery leftist, who remains popular and powerful, said the people had spoken and he heard them, but he also pledged to find another way to pass his reform plans.

"I will not withdraw even one comma of this proposal (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071203/ts_nm/venezuela_referendum_dc_32;_ylt=AqMkUo5A6bG_wkgaBS q3UoME1vAI), this proposal is still alive," he said. "For me, this is not a defeat."

[Bronco Bob]

the camel f@cker in Iran, the commie bastard in Russia, Mexico, China, North Korea, the ACLU, and, of course, Hillary. However, France is cool now. At least Sarkozy is.

So tell me Spider, LABF, slug, bronco bob, nut, etc., in January of '09, who are yooooou gonna pick to be your new boogeyman?

Does it have to be a person? How about Global Warming? That's going to
do more damage to mankind if something isn't done about it than 1000
Chavez's, Putin's, Amadinnerolls, and Little Kims combined.

[Rohirrim]

When Chavez steps down, then I'll believe it.

[Spider]

So tell me Spider, LABF, slug, bronco bob, nut, etc., in January of '09, who are yooooou gonna pick to be your new boogeyman?

why do we need a boogie man ?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So tell me Spider, LABF, slug, bronco bob, nut, etc., in January of '09, who are yooooou gonna pick to be your new boogeyman?

The damage your hero GeeDubya has done to America will extend well beyond January 2009.

History will remember your hero as the guy who brought America down.

[cutthemdown]

The damage your hero GeeDubya has done to America will extend well beyond January 2009.

History will remember your hero as the guy who brought America down.

Talk like this makes me understand the left so much better. Now that they see they will soon be in power, they will say it will take years to undo this damage. That way when things don't get better under their watch they wont have to take any responsibility.

[spdirty]

Does it have to be a person? How about Global Warming? That's going to
do more damage to mankind if something isn't done about it than 1000
Chavez's, Putin's, Amadinnerolls, and Little Kims combined.

there you go! Better go buy you some carbon credits to fill Algo...errrr, so the green crusaders can arm themselves for battle against the global warming.

Ill go burn some tires and keep all my lights on and do whatever I can to help my evil ally to fight these damn icy roads. Damn near slid into someones driveway yesterday, and wouldve had i been driving a Hybrid.

[spdirty]

why do we need a boogie man ?

Dude you don't need one but your people have one. Your people are running against him even though he isnt on the ballot next year. What are your people gonna do once he goes on the speech tour?

[spdirty]

The damage your hero GeeDubya has done to America will extend well beyond January 2009.

History will remember your hero as the guy who brought America down.

yeah he is your boogeyman...so will your life have any purpose once he is gone?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Talk like this makes me understand the left so much better. Now that they see they will soon be in power, they will say it will take years to undo this damage.

It was certainly true the last time around.

Look how long it took Bill Clinton to clean up the gigantic mess he inherited from the Red Ink Ron/Poppy-era crooks.


That way when things don't get better under their watch they wont have to take any responsibility.

You talk as though this is some sort of track record on their part when just the reverse is true. Things got better on almost every front during Clinton's watch in spite of the sea of red ink created by republicans.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

yeah he is your boogeyman...so will your life have any purpose once he is gone?

Your "I am rubber/you are glue" tactic isn't working on this thread, dawg.

To call someone a "boogeyman" is to imply that he doesn't really deserve the critical treatment he receives.

You certainly can't say this about Bush.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/osama-oil.jpg

[Spider]

Dude you don't need one but your people have one. Your people are running against him even though he isnt on the ballot next year. What are your people gonna do once he goes on the speech tour?

back up and get a grip , Bush is a psychopath with genocide and world domination on his mind , he is certifiable , dont believe me ? think I am just making that up ? See the Iran stopped Nukes in 2003 thread ....... Talking of WWIII when Bush knew damn well Iran wasnt going nuclear ......... huge difference in a Boogey man and a psychopath

[Breaker]

Talk like this makes me understand the left so much better. Now that they see they will soon be in power, they will say it will take years to undo this damage. That way when things don't get better under their watch they wont have to take any responsibility.

:thumbs: Quoted for truth

[defenseman]

Talk like this makes me understand the left so much better. Now that they see they will soon be in power, they will say it will take years to undo this damage. That way when things don't get better under their watch they wont have to take any responsibility.

Bingo, give the man a prize. Exactly correct, it's the "other" guys fault, the ideology of "blame america first" resonates like a churchbell...dman

[TailgateNut]

Talk like this makes me understand the left so much better. Now that they see they will soon be in power, they will say it will take years to undo this damage. That way when things don't get better under their watch they wont have to take any responsibility.


You don't understand ****. At least the Dems will try to correct the course, rather than continue a loosing venture.

****ing Bush piled up a bill which equals a debt of $30000 for every living US citizen. (and the ****er isn't done yet).

How do you fix that "quickly"? What do you think, brainchild?

[Garcia Bronco]

Either way....congress is the one that spends the money. They need to stop spending money while taking in less.

[Spider]

Bingo, give the man a prize. Exactly correct, it's the "other" guys fault, the ideology of "blame america first" resonates like a churchbell...dman

huh , so when we blame Bush , we are blaming America ...... I guess Bush is America and America is Bush ...... you dont see the fallacy in that line of thinking ?

[Bronco Bob]

huh , so when we blame Bush , we are blaming America ...... I guess Bush is America and America is Bush ...... you dont see the fallacy in that line of thinking ?

The saddist thing is the Bushies put Bush ahead of America. They don't
really care about America. If they did they would be for repairing our
bridges and highways and levees. They would be for protecting our
boarders. They would be for providing for health care for the children.
They would be for curbing global warming. They would be for protecting
the Constitution. They would be against wars that do nothing to protect
America. Everything Bush is for, they are for. Everything Bush is against,
they are against, whether it is good for America or not. (usually not)

[spdirty]

back up and get a grip , Bush is a psychopath with genocide and world domination on his mind , he is certifiable , dont believe me ? think I am just making that up ? See the Iran stopped Nukes in 2003 thread ....... Talking of WWIII when Bush knew damn well Iran wasnt going nuclear ......... huge difference in a Boogey man and a psychopath

genocide and world domination?? Dude, you are the one who needs to back the ****ing truck up and get a grip. If Bush is president in February of '09, or at least tries to be, then talk to me. But he is done soon. Soon he will be on the speech tour, and then hangin out in Crawford. So your world domination claim is nothing but a bunch of bullshlt.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

See the Iran stopped Nukes in 2003 thread ....... Talking of WWIII when Bush knew damn well Iran wasnt going nuclear ......... huge difference in a Boogey man and a psychopath

Yep.

Not to mention the fact that in 2003 Iran offered to do pretty much everything Team Smirk & Sneer wanted but the junta blew Iran off. (Sound familiar? Hans Blix and/or Saddam exile offer, anyone?)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

:thumbs: Quoted for truth

Only in the weird parallel universe you and your fellow Bush backers inhabit where facts don't matter and the truth is whatever you want it to be.

[W*GS]

Only in the weird parallel universe you and your fellow Bush backers inhabit where facts don't matter and the truth is whatever you want it to be.

Thanks for the after-dinner humor.

Facts have never mattered to you and you make up "truth" whenever your dogma demands it.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You can always count on W*GS for the "I am rubber/you are glue" non-rebuttal.

[W*GS]

See any of your spin on the 22nd Amendment deflections in any of the Chavez threads for examples of your "truth".

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

See W*GS' deflect away from the actual point, viz., the similarities between the behavior he condemns in Chavez and Bush's numerous power grabs/attempts to establish a unitary executive.

[Spider]

genocide and world domination?? Dude, you are the one who needs to back the ****ing truck up and get a grip. If Bush is president in February of '09, or at least tries to be, then talk to me. But he is done soon. Soon he will be on the speech tour, and then hangin out in Crawford. So your world domination claim is nothing but a bunch of bullshlt.

Ok you tell me why Bush wants to attack Iran despite Iran not having a bomb ?
then you can also explain how we can bomb Iran and not kill anyone ( that one I would love to hear ) ........ He who controls the oil controls the world ......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Either way....congress is the one that spends the money. They need to stop spending money while taking in less.

Why doesn't Chimpy McFlightsuit just veto all those Iraq appropriation bills, then? (Like he does with those other "wasteful" spending items, e.g., that children's health care bill.)

Oh, that's right - he's the one who keeps asking for more money for his Iraq quagmire. :welcome:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

FEAR OF CHAVEZ IS FEAR OF DEMOCRACY

Bush: If it’s our oil, why do Venezuelans get to vote on it?

GOP panicked that counting votes in Venezuela will spread to Florida

by Greg Palast
Monday December 3, 2007

The Family Bush can fix Florida. They can fix Ohio. But it’s just driving them crazy that they can’t fix the vote in Venezuela.

[Note: Watch the reports taken from the Palast BBC investigations in Venezuela in the newly released DVD, “The Assassination of Hugo Chavez." ("http://www.palastinvestigativefund.org/)]

The Bush Administration and its press puppies - the same ones who couldn’t get enough of the purple thumbs of voters of Iraq - are absolutely livid that this weekend the electorate of Venezuela had the opportunity to vote.

Typical was the mouth-breathing editorial by the San Francisco Chronicle, that the referendum could make Hugo Chavez, Venezuela’s President, “a constitutional dictator for life.” And no less a freedom fighter than Donald Rumsfeld, from the height of the Washington Post, said that by voting, Venezuela was “receding into dictatorship.” Oh, my!

Given that Chavez’ referendum was defeated at the ballot box, we now know that, as a dictator, Chavez is a flop. Of course, without meaning to gainsay Secretary Rumsfeld, maybe Chavez is not a dictator.

Let’s get clear exactly what this vote was about. Firstly, it was a referendum to change the nation’s constitution to end term limits for President.

Oh, horror! Imagine if we eliminated term limits in the US! We could end up stuck with a president - like Franklin Roosevelt. Worse, if Bill Clinton could have run again, we’d have missed out on the statesmanship of Junior Bush. While US media called Chavez a “tyrant” for suggesting an end to term limits, they somehow forgot to smear the tyrant tag on Mr. Clinton for suggesting the same for the America.

We were not told this weekend’s referendum was a vote on term limits, rather, we were told by virtually every US news outlet that the referendum was to make Chavez, “President for Life.” The “President for Life” canard was mis-reported by no less than The New York Times.

But ending term limits does not mean winning the term. As Chavez himself told me, “It’s up to the people” whether he gets reelected. And that infuriates the US Powers That Be.

Secondly, beyond ending term limits, the referendum would have loaded the nation’s constitution with changes in property law, work hours and so many other complex economic adjustments that the entire referendum sank of its own weight.

It’s the Oil.

Term limits and work hours in Venezuela? Why was this a crisis for Washington?

Why is the Bush crew so bonkers about Hugo? Is it because Venezuela sits on the world’s largest reserve of coconuts?

Like Operation Iraqi Liberation (”OIL”) - it’s all about the crude, dude. And lots of it. The US Department of Energy documents I obtained indicate that the guys holding Bush’s dipstick figure that Venezuela is sitting on 1.36 trillion barrels of crude, five times the reserves of Saudi Arabia.

Chavez’ continuing tenure means that Venezuelans’ huge supply of oil will now be in the hands of … Venezuelans!

As Arturo Quiran, resident of a poor folks’ housing complex, told me, “Ten, fifteen years ago … there was a lot of oil money here in Venezuela but we didn’t see it.” Notably, Quiran doesn’t particularly agree with Chavez’ politics. But, he thought Americans should understand that under Chavez’ Administration, there’s a doctor’s office in his building with “free operations, x-rays, medicines. Education also. People who never knew how to read and write now know how to sign their own papers.”

Not everyone is pleased. As one TV news anchor, violently anti-Chavez, told me in derisive tones, “Chavez gives them (the poor) bricks and bread!” - how dare he! - so, they vote for him.

Big Oil has better ideas for Venezuela, best expressed in several Wall Street Journal articles attacking Chavez for spending his nation’s oil wealth on “social programs” rather than on more drilling platforms to better fill the SUVs of Texas.

Chavez has committed other crimes in Washington’s eyes. Not only has this uppity brown man spent Venezuela’s oil wealth in Venezuela, he withdrew $20 billion from the US Federal Reserve. Weirdly, Venezuela’s previous leaders, though the nation was dirt poor, lent billions to the US Treasury on crap terms. Chavez has said, Basta! to this game, and has called for keeping South America’s capital in … South America! Oh, no!

Oh, and did I mention that Chavez told Exxon it had to pay more than a 1% royalty to his nation on the heavy crude the company extracted?

And that’s why they have to kill him. In 2002, The New York Times sickeningly applauded the coup d’etat against Chavez. But that failed. Therefore, as the electorate of Venezuela is obstinately refusing to vote as Condi Rice tells them, there’s only one solution left for democracy-loving Bush-niks, the view express out loud by our President’s spiritual advisor, Pat Robertson:

“We have this enemy to our south controlling a huge pool of oil. Hugo Chavez thinks we’re trying to assassinate him. I think we ought to go ahead and do it. … … We don’t need another $200 billion war … It’s a whole lot easier to have some covert operatives do the job.”

But Hugo’s not my enemy. Indeed, he’s made a damn good offer to the American people: oil for $50 a barrel - nearly half of what it sells today. By locking in a long-term price, Venezuela loses its crazy Iraq war oil-price windfall. In return, we agree not to let oil prices fall through the floor (it dropped to $9 a barrel in 1998) and bankrupt his nation. But Saudi Arabia doesn’t like that deal. And Abdullah’s wish is George Bush’s command. (Interestingly, Chavez’ fellow no-term-limits dictator Bill Clinton endorsed the concept.)

I don’t agree with everything Chavez does. And I’ve found some of his opponents’ point well taken. But unlike Bush, I don’t think I should have a veto over the Venezuelan vote.

And the locals’ sentiments are quite clear. I drove with one opposition candidate, Julio Borges, on a campaign stop to a small town three hours from Caracas. We met his supporters - or, more accurately, his lone supporter. The “rally” was in her kitchen. She served us delicious arepas.

The next day, I returned to that very same town when Chavez arrived. Nearly a thousand screaming fans showed up - and an equal number were turned away. (The British Telegraph laughably reports that Chavez’ boosters appear “under duress.”) You’d think they were showing for a taping of “South American Idol.” (Well, the Venezuelan President did break into song a few times.)

It’s worth noting that Chavez’ personal popularity doesn’t extend to all his plans for “Bolivarian” socialism. And that killed his referendum at the ballot box. I guess Chavez should have asked Jeb Bush how to count votes in a democracy.

So there you have it. Some guy who thinks he can take Venezuela’s oil and oil money and just give it away to Venezuelans. And these same Venezuelans have the temerity to demand the right to pick the president of their choice! What is the world coming to?

In Orwellian Bush-speak and Times-talk, Chavez’ referendum was portrayed before the vote as a trick, a kind of “Saddam goes Latin.” Maybe their real fear is that Chavez has brought a bit of economic justice through the ballot box, a trend that could spread northward. Think about it: Chavez is funding full health care for all Venezuelans. What if that happened here?

http://www.gregpalast.com/fear-of-chavez-is-fear-of-democracy/

[Bronco Bob]

Can't wait for W*gs rebuttel. Most likely some sort of homophobic put down of LABF, and that will be the extent of it.

[W*GS]

Expecting Greg Palast to have a clear view of Chavez is like, well, LABF having a clear view of Chavez.

Apparently Palast (and LABF) are choosing to ignore the pre-referendum protests, whose participants numbered in the thousands. They're also ignoring that for Chavez to complain about coup attempts overlooks that he tried one in 1992, which happened to have failed.

Chavez is certainly using Venezuela's oil wealth to buy political support. What he's also doing is restricting the political breadth of Venezuela, and concentrating power in his office. Clearly, the Venezuelan people decided he had overreached himself, but I really doubt he'll stop his consolidation and concentration of political power.

[Bronco Bob]

Chavez is certainly using Venezuela's oil wealth to buy political support. What he's also doing is restricting the political breadth of Venezuela, and concentrating power in his office. Clearly, the Venezuelan people decided he had overreached himself, but I really doubt he'll stop his consolidation and concentration of political power.

So how exactly does this make Chavez any different than any other politician?
Are you saying Musharraf isn't trying to consolidate and concentrate his political power?
Or the house of Saud? Or al-Maliki? Or Calderón? Or Cheney/Bush?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So how exactly does this make Chavez any different than any other politician?
Are you saying Musharraf isn't trying to consolidate and concentrate his political power?
Or the house of Saud? Or al-Maliki? Or Calderón? Or Cheney/Bush?

Exactly.

W*GS and his fellow neocons are about as predictable as it gets with their pattern of smearing foreign leaders who don't play ball with BushCo and Big Oil while ignoring the others you mentioned.

Their behavior perfectly mirrors that of the Bush WH.

W*GS is ultimately no more than a shill for the multinational corporations at whose pleasure Bush serves.

[W*GS]

So how exactly does this make Chavez any different than any other politician?

So Chavez is the same as Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, and the folks on your city council? Do tell.

[W*GS]

W*GS and his fellow neocons are about as predictable as it gets with their pattern of smearing foreign leaders who don't play ball with BushCo and Big Oil while ignoring the others you mentioned.

Here's what some Venezuelans, former allies of Chavez, had to say before the vote on the referendum:

"Many of the articles there flout the essence of democracy,” says Ismael García, leader of Podemos, one of four parties that have formed the governing coalition since 1998 but which has now joined the “No” campaign in the referendum.

Another weighty opponent is General Raul Baduel, who was defence minister until July and whose role in restoring Mr Chávez to the presidential palace after an abortive coup in 2002 made him a hero to chavistas. The proposed reform amounts to “constitutional fraud” and a “coup d'état”, he says. “Democracies should be very careful that there is a division of powers, with counterbalances. This [the reform] would put democratic institutionality at risk.”

What sort of spin do you put on their remarks, LABF?

W*GS is ultimately no more than a shill for the multinational corporations at whose pleasure Bush serves.

:bs:

As usual.

Any deviation from LABF's far-left Bush-hating near-psychosis earns others little more than cheap shots, smears, and slurs.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So how exactly does this make Chavez any different than any other politician?
Are you saying Musharraf isn't trying to consolidate and concentrate his political power?
Or the house of Saud? Or al-Maliki? Or Calderón? Or Cheney/Bush?

I'd still like to know why W*GS cares so much about Chavez but never takes these other guys to task?

Doesn't he realize he is a mirror image of Bush in that respect?

[W*GS]

I'd still like to know why W*GS cares so much about Chavez but never takes these other guys to task?

You're the one who cares so deeply about Chavez, merely because his rhetoric is so like yours. You overlook the unsavory aspects of his regime. Why?

Besides, I've never read anything of yours criticizing Pol Pot. Ergo, you supported him.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

W*GS the dodge ball champ.

[W*GS]

W*GS the dodge ball champ.

Address the comments made by (formerly) pro-Chavez Venezuelans in

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1808360&postcount=50

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Ha ha ha! :laugh:

W*GS still hasn't fielded the original question, i.e., why is he so concerned about Chavez and not all those other world leaders?

And why do his claims about Chavez mirror those of the Bush administration and its oil industry friends?

[W*GS]

W*GS still hasn't fielded the original question, i.e., why is he so concerned about Chavez and not all those other world leaders?

If you hadn't been so adoring of Chavez, spinning for him and presenting blatant propaganda as evidence about what a Great Guy Chavez is, I doubt I'd say anything about him. Correcting you about ol' Hugo isn't the same as "concern", and, lack of comment about random other individuals doesn't mean support of same, nor does it excuse Chavez (or anyone else, for that matter).

And why do his claims about Chavez mirror those of the Bush administration and its oil industry friends?

They do not. I suggest you re-read the posts of mine in response to your "VHeadline" propaganda.

Now, what about those comments by (formerly) pro-Chavez Venezuelans? Are you claiming that they are oil industry (and/or Bush) mouthpieces? What's your evidence?

Beerslug and Ro are anti-Chavez; are they just stooges too?

[Bronco Bob]

Now, what about those comments by (formerly) pro-Chavez Venezuelans? Are you claiming that they are oil industry (and/or Bush) mouthpieces? What's your evidence?

Beerslug and Ro are anti-Chavez; are they just stooges too?

I also think that Chavez is a loud mouthed buffoon who hurts his cause
more than helps it.
That said, just because you can find people from his own country that
disagree with his policies doesn't really prove anything.
Everybody doesn't like someone.
I'm sure you can find people in this country who have negative things
to say about George W. Bush.
I'm sure you can also find people in this country who have negative things
to say about Ted Kennedy.
There are even people who don't like Ron Paul.
But you have to admit SA countries have been screwed over by the
multi-nationals for decades so it is understandable that the people
of these countries would rally around someone who is standing up
to the US, no matter how ham-fisted he goes about it. And you
also should understand that as the multi-nationals see their profits
slipping away they, in cahouts with the MSM, are going to demonize
the man most responsible and print as many negative stories about
him as they can find while ignoring or downplaying anything he
does to benefit his people.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

But you have to admit SA countries have been screwed over by the
multi-nationals for decades so it is understandable that the people
of these countries would rally around someone who is standing up
to the US, no matter how ham-fisted he goes about it. And you
also should understand that as the multi-nationals see their profits
slipping away they, in cahouts with the MSM, are going to demonize
the man most responsible and print as many negative stories about
him as they can find while ignoring or downplaying anything he
does to benefit his people.

:yep:

My point exactly.

W*GS' and his fellow neocons' arguments about Chavez sound like they were written by those multi-nationals and Bush's oil buddies, word for word.

[W*GS]

I also think that Chavez is a loud mouthed buffoon who hurts his cause more than helps it.

As LABF would say, that's just the Bush WH (mouthpiece for Big Oil) talking.

That said, just because you can find people from his own country that disagree with his policies doesn't really prove anything.

The two men I quoted aren't just "people".

But you have to admit SA countries have been screwed over by the multi-nationals for decades so it is understandable that the people of these countries would rally around someone who is standing up to the US, no matter how ham-fisted he goes about it.

Chavez isn't "standing up" to the US any more than Castro ever has. Venezuelan oil is still flowing to us.

Chavez is merely taking Castro's tactic of making the US the scapegoat for all Venezuela's ills (and just about every problem on the planet as well) and as a deflector from his own authoritarian and anti-democratic actions. In short, Chavez is using the US as Bush uses "terrorists" - a convenient mask and hot-button issue to cover for their stupid policies.

[W*GS]

My point exactly.

W*GS' and his fellow neocons' arguments about Chavez sound like they were written by those multi-nationals and Bush's oil buddies, word for word.

So, Ismael García, leader of Podemos, and General Raul Baduel are mere stooges?

Do tell.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That said, just because you can find people from his own country that
disagree with his policies doesn't really prove anything.


I guess W*GS neglected to read this part of your post. ;)

[W*GS]

I guess W*GS neglected to read this part of your post.

Like I told Bronco Bob, the two men I quoted aren't just run-of-the-mill Venezuelans.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The Palast article I posted earlier did a great job of exposing the real motivation for the right-wing propaganda about Chavez that W*GS constantly parrots:

It’s the Oil.

Term limits and work hours in Venezuela? Why was this a crisis for Washington?

Why is the Bush crew so bonkers about Hugo? Is it because Venezuela sits on the world’s largest reserve of coconuts?

Like Operation Iraqi Liberation (”OIL”) - it’s all about the crude, dude. And lots of it. The US Department of Energy documents I obtained indicate that the guys holding Bush’s dipstick figure that Venezuela is sitting on 1.36 trillion barrels of crude, five times the reserves of Saudi Arabia.

Chavez’ continuing tenure means that Venezuelans’ huge supply of oil will now be in the hands of … Venezuelans!

As Arturo Quiran, resident of a poor folks’ housing complex, told me, “Ten, fifteen years ago … there was a lot of oil money here in Venezuela but we didn’t see it.” Notably, Quiran doesn’t particularly agree with Chavez’ politics. But, he thought Americans should understand that under Chavez’ Administration, there’s a doctor’s office in his building with “free operations, x-rays, medicines. Education also. People who never knew how to read and write now know how to sign their own papers.”

Not everyone is pleased. As one TV news anchor, violently anti-Chavez, told me in derisive tones, “Chavez gives them (the poor) bricks and bread!” - how dare he! - so, they vote for him.

Big Oil has better ideas for Venezuela, best expressed in several Wall Street Journal articles attacking Chavez for spending his nation’s oil wealth on “social programs” rather than on more drilling platforms to better fill the SUVs of Texas.

Chavez has committed other crimes in Washington’s eyes. Not only has this uppity brown man spent Venezuela’s oil wealth in Venezuela, he withdrew $20 billion from the US Federal Reserve. Weirdly, Venezuela’s previous leaders, though the nation was dirt poor, lent billions to the US Treasury on crap terms. Chavez has said, Basta! to this game, and has called for keeping South America’s capital in … South America! Oh, no!

Oh, and did I mention that Chavez told Exxon it had to pay more than a 1% royalty to his nation on the heavy crude the company extracted?

And that’s why they have to kill him. In 2002, The New York Times sickeningly applauded the coup d’etat against Chavez. But that failed. Therefore, as the electorate of Venezuela is obstinately refusing to vote as Condi Rice tells them, there’s only one solution left for democracy-loving Bush-niks, the view express out loud by our President’s spiritual advisor, Pat Robertson:

“We have this enemy to our south controlling a huge pool of oil. Hugo Chavez thinks we’re trying to assassinate him. I think we ought to go ahead and do it. … … We don’t need another $200 billion war … It’s a whole lot easier to have some covert operatives do the job.”

But Hugo’s not my enemy. Indeed, he’s made a damn good offer to the American people: oil for $50 a barrel - nearly half of what it sells today. By locking in a long-term price, Venezuela loses its crazy Iraq war oil-price windfall. In return, we agree not to let oil prices fall through the floor (it dropped to $9 a barrel in 1998) and bankrupt his nation. But Saudi Arabia doesn’t like that deal. And Abdullah’s wish is George Bush’s command. (Interestingly, Chavez’ fellow no-term-limits dictator Bill Clinton endorsed the concept.)

I don’t agree with everything Chavez does. And I’ve found some of his opponents’ point well taken. But unlike Bush, I don’t think I should have a veto over the Venezuelan vote.

[W*GS]

The Palast article I posted earlier did a great job of exposing the real motivation for the right-wing propaganda about Chavez that W*GS constantly parrots:

Ismael García, leader of Podemos, and General Raul Baduel are right-wing propagandists?

Let's hear how your posting of "VHeadline" nonsense isn't left-wing pro-Chavez propaganda. Especially the part about Venezuela having the world's free-est press...

[Rohirrim]

Venezuelan Crackdown on Press Freedom Continues

Press group suspects government interference in 2008 meeting arrangements




Venezuelans protest against proposed constitutional changes that would eliminate term limits for President Hugo Chávez. (© AP Images)
By Eric Green
USINFO Staff Writer

Washington -- The crackdown on press freedom in Venezuela continues unabated, human rights and press freedom groups say.

Over the last six months, the Venezuelan government of President Hugo Chávez has committed more "transgressions" against the press than has any other country in the Western Hemisphere, the Miami-based Inter-American Press Association (IAPA) said in an October 18 statement.

The IAPA's finding follows the May shutdown of Radio Caracas Televisión (RCTV) by the Chávez government, which then used the station's equipment to create a new state-run television channel.

The press freedom advocacy group says Chávez also is committed to providing financial aid to the governments of Bolivia and Ecuador to establish state-run radio stations in those countries.

The United States and a number of other governments and international bodies all condemned Chávez's action against RCTV. Meanwhile, the Inter-American Court of Human Rights was asked to rule on a complaint against the Venezuelan government "for violating human rights related to the freedom of speech, personal safety, and legal and judicial protection for the workers and journalists" of RCTV. (See related article.)

The protests against the forced closing of RCTV continue as the Venezuelan government proposes new constitutional "reforms" that would limit freedom of the press and allow Chávez to run for re-election indefinitely. Tens of thousands of people have been demonstrating in Venezuela against those measures. Venezuelan citizens will vote on the proposed changes to their country's constitution in a December 2 referendum.

INTERFERENCE IN IAPA MEETING

IAPA President Earl Maucker told USINFO that his group suspects the Venezuelan government wants to stop the IAPA from holding its March 2008 meeting in Venezuela. The meeting has been scheduled for two years. The IAPA, founded in 1942, has more than 1300 members representing newspapers and magazines in the Western Hemisphere.

Maucker said hotels in three different Venezuelan cities first accepted, then cancelled, the group's reservations for the 400-500 delegates to what the IAPA terms its "mid-year" meeting. The hotels all claimed in cancelling that they had no vacancies, said Maucker. The third hotel said it would provide lodging for the IAPA, but that the group was prohibited from using the hotel's conference room facilities, said Maucker, who is also editor of the Fort Lauderdale (Florida) Sun-Sentinel.

"The presumption is that the [Venezuelan] government or someone connected with the government is putting pressure" on the hotels "to not allow us to come" to Venezuela, said Maucker. He said reservations were made and confirmed and "then we were informed later" that the hotels "did not have facilities for us," said Maucker.




Jose Vivanco, director of Human Rights Watch for the Americas, warns about proposed changes to Venezuela's constitution. (© AP Images)
Maucker said his group remains determined to hold its meeting in Venezuela, because of what it symbolizes to the independent press in that country.

The IAPA "wants to do everything in our power to show our support to [independent] newspapers and media companies in Venezuela that we're not going to abandon them in their time of need," said Maucker.

The IAPA said in its October 18 statement that it intends to hold its meeting in Venezuela, "if it is at all possible," as a "demonstration of unrestricted support for press freedom and democracy" in the Andean nation. The group also passed a declaration at its October General Assembly in Miami condemning Chávez's "totalitarian, dictatorial character."

Maucker said he will be part of a 14-person IAPA delegation to Venezuela in late November to appeal to Venezuela authorities to let the meeting go forward in that country.

IAPA Executive Director Julio Muñoz told USINFO that Chávez's closing of RCTV was an "overreaction against the media" in Venezuela. He said the closing of the station represented "censorship against the media. That was very clear."

Muñoz said that "the message here is we fight for freedom of the press" and that never in the IAPA's 65-year history has it been barred from holding its meetings in a Western Hemisphere country, whether that nation was run by a left-wing or right-wing government. Muñoz said Cuba is the only country in the Western Hemisphere where the IAPA has not been invited by fellow press groups to hold its meetings.

"That's because all the [independent Cuban] media are in exile," Muñoz said wryly.

José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director of the New York-based Human Rights Watch, an independent nongovernmental organization, said in an October 16 statement that the changes to the Venezuelan Constitution would allow Chávez "to invoke a state of emergency to justify suspending certain rights that are untouchable under international law."

Vivanco said that "recent Latin American history shows that it is precisely during states of emergency that countries need strong judicial protections to prevent abuse. Otherwise, what has historically prevailed is the brutal exercise of power."

I will be highly surprised if Hugo doesn't declare a "state of emergency" within the next few weeks. My guess is that, since he lost the election, he is now consolidating his forces to ensure that the military is behind him. Then, he'll make his move.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Saddam's WMD should turn up in Caracas any day now...

;)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Too bad Chavez refuses to do business with Smirk & Dick's oil buddies - then he could just boil those pesky members of the press alive and get invited to lunch at the WH the same day.