Philip Rivers or Eli Manning?

[-Slap-]

Interesting comparison since they were traded for each other and they're both turning out to be big disappointments. Obviously San Diego got the better end of the trade*, at least before Merriman had to stop juicing, but who's the better quarterback now and moving forward?

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.

.

.

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* Who the Chargers picked with those picks:
2004, 1st round (#4 overall): QB Phillip Rivers
2004, 3rd round: PK Nate Kaeding
2005, 1st round (#12 overall): LB Shawne Merriman
2005, 5th round: traded to Tampa Bay for OLT Roman Oben

[toad]

Rivers is still the better QB, IMO.

At this point, though, you have to say Roethlisberger (who was in that same draft) is the best of them all. Schaub and Losman were in that draft as well...

[RhymesayersDU]

They've both shown flashes.

I'd have to take the San Diego side of the deal, Rivers has played well at times, and they got a slew of players with him.

[Northman]

Rivers still is better so far.

[Orange_Beard]

Eli needs a better coach. I think that with the right coach he could come around.

Rivers has a better supporting cast. I just don't think that he is stable enough to be a championship QB.

I would take Eli.

[Broncoman13]

It's pretty much a wash on were they are this far. I think Eli has more talent so his future is 'brighter' though not by much. Any way you slice it both are barely top 10 QB's in terms of upside. I see Eli as a career Matt Hassleback. Good but not quite elite. He can probably get to a Superbowl in his career but it will be b/c of surrounding talent. Philip Rivers is a career Testaverde. He'll always be around and he'll always be 'good' just never great and never capable of leading his team to the promised land. Dilfer would be a good comparrison except for *he* won a SB.

[Orange_Beard]

This was on CNN this morning. From the daily news:
Esiason: Eli should leave New York (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/28631)


Everybody is a critic when it comes to Eli Manning. He's taken hits from fans, media, opponents and Tiki Barber. Even GM Jerry Reese piled on Tuesday when he was quoted as saying Manning looked "skittish" on Sunday. it's excessive. But really, what did he expect? "I wonder if Archie (Manning) was thinking 'My son, with his personality, can handle New York,'" said former Jets quarterback Boomer Esiason, an analyst for CBS and a talk-show host on WFAN. "I don't know what he was thinking about. Maybe he should be in Jacksonville. Maybe he should be in Atlanta or New Orleans. New York is going to chew him up right now - and it has chewed him up for the last four years."
New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2007/11/28/2007-11-28_giants_gm_jerry_reese_calls_eli_manning_.html)

[RaiderH8r]

Is taking a pass on either and opting for Cutler an option here?

Seriously though, Rivers has a running game to support him. Not just any running game, it's LT. He's got mediocre, at best, receivers. Gates just doesn't seem to be getting the ball as much this year, but to be fair I haven't really truly tuned into the Chuggers so I could be wrong there. ShEli has a rotating backfield that is solid but not LT. His receiving corps is mediocre at best. And Shockey, well whatever. I'm calling it a wash between those two and I still take Cutler.

[Paladin]

I liken Rivers to that stalwart Cleveland QB, Bernie Kosar. Just good enough to be on the team, but not quite there to do too much on his own. I have not seen enough of Eli to really have much of a care about him. I remember a lot of fellows around here had the real woody for him when he came out. Neither of these boys will be anything as good as even Jim Kelly. I picked Eli because I don't know him, and I wated to pi$$ off the sparkies' fans......

[Broncoman13]

I liken Rivers to that stalwart Cleveland QB, Bernie Kosar. Just good enough to be on the team, but not quite there to do too much on his own. I have not seen enough of Eli to really have much of a care about him. I remember a lot of fellows around here had the real woody for him when he came out. Neither of these boys will be anything as good as even Jim Kelly. I picked Eli because I don't know him, and I wated to pi$$ off the sparkies' fans......

Jim Kelly?

That's like saying neither Vince Young or Jay Cutler will be as good as Steve Young... not very many would be and it's a little too early to tell anyhow.

[Beej]

This is almost a wash, but I'll take Eli.

[Bronco LB 59]

I liken Rivers to that stalwart Cleveland QB, Bernie Kosar. Just good enough to be on the team, but not quite there to do too much on his own.

That Kosar comp tells me Rivers is going to have a similar downslope of his career where his old man skills will catch up with him fast. The Chargers have a 7-8 year window to get the most out of Rivers because he'll be clipboard material around year ten. Drew Bledsoe is another good example. Big arm but his lack of mobility became a determent late in his career.

[Los Broncos]

Rivers is slightly better, he does have better weapons around him.

[Merlin]

Neither of these boys will be anything as good as even Jim Kelly.
Neither of them could be a hall of fame QB that took his team to 4 consecutive SBs? That was helpful ;)

I have been very critical of Rivers since the last quarter of last yr, and I have seen nothing to make me change my mind this yr (since the problems started last yr after the teams figured him out, I can't blame Norv, he just destroyed the rest of the team :D). Eli may not be able to LEAD a team like his brother, but he has a lot of skills, and with the proper coach could succeed (I like the comparison to the Seattle QB). Place him in a better environment, with good skill players and a good offensive coordinator and he will get to the big game one day (he won't be great, but he is decent/good).

[NaptownChief]

My answer based on where they were drafted and cost would be "Neither"....But if I had to choose straight up I would take Eli. But that is more of a condemnation of Rivers than it is anything too positive about Eli.

[Merlin]

My answer based on where they were drafted and cost would be "Neither"....But if I had to choose straight up I would take Eli. But that is more of a condemnation of Rivers than it is anything too positive about Eli.
QFT

[watermock]

I'll go with Cutler.

[boltaneer]

It's interesting how a few of you say Eli needs a new coach/offense/OC but Rivers doesn't get that same consideration with Norv even though most people here think he's an idiot.

I watch all of Rivers' games (obviously) but I also see nearly every game of Eli's as well, as my friend is a huge Giants fan. Eli had an elite running game with Tiki in years past but still struggled quite a bit. But he also has the weapons(Burress/Shockey/Toomer). Burress has bailed out Eli many times by doing his Moss impersonation and Eli just throwing it up to him even in double coverage. Shockey has great talent and he often shows up but he also drops a ton of makable catches. Toomer is the dependable possession receiver and does his job well.

I will agree that he would benefit from a new HC and/or system. For some reason the Giants just fall apart in the second half of every season Eli has been QB. I think a lot of that falls on Eli's shoulders but their defense also falls apart so a lot of finger pointing needs to go to Coughlin.

You guys like to lay the blame on Rivers this year and that's fine but I completely disagree. But obviously, both sides of the ball aren't playing as well as they did last year. The o-line isn't playing at the level they were last year. The receiving corps were really struggling (Vincent Jackson is a sad number two WR at best and Buster Davis just isn't ready yet) until Chambers got here. The offense under Norv has completely gone away from the short passing game and power running game and keeps trying to stretch the field, completely the opposite of what the offense was last year.

But it finally looks like the offense is getting back on track in the past two games (though the run game is still poor) as the short passing game looked like it returned last week, Norv finally started mixing it up by throwing on first down and by no surprise Rivers is playing much better. As I said in the other thread, if this is the case and/or Norv is gone next year and they go back to the old offense, I would expect Rivers to return to his old form.

[Houshyamama]

Rivers has never had a good receiver other than Gates. His persona annoys the hell out of me and causes him problems on the field, but I see him as a more stable and consistent QB than Eli (who is more talented but is horribly inconsistent). That being said, they both are mediocre.

[Paladin]

His "old form" wasn't much, though, sparkie. The trick is whether LT gets going. Rivers doesn't have anything to do with that.......

[bronco militia]

"The question is moot"

[go_broncos]

Rivers is a better QB and he plays well against Denver.

[BMF Bronco]

being a total homer, I voted for eli

[BMF Bronco]

"The question is moot"

hehe, reminds me of the friends episode with, "the point is moo"

[Paladin]

Jim Kelly?

That's like saying neither Vince Young or Jay Cutler will be as good as Steve Young... not very many would be and it's a little too early to tell anyhow.

I guess I said Kelly becasue he did not get the Trophy. He didn't quite get over the hump. Just couldn't quite get the brass ring. Just fell short. Looked good, but lost the fashion show. Weighed in, but was a few pounds short. He missed the bullseye by a smidgeon.

From that standpoint, Just not quiite the true champion. Always the bridesmaid. Never got the big bite of the pie. Just fell a brick short of a full house. An inch short of a full foot.

Alas! There will be no Lombardi in Sandy Eggo with Rivers, although he may tease like Gypsy Rose Lee. He will likely be just good enough to be close, but he wiill smoke no cigar.....

Brees II......

Is that a bit better?

[400HZ]

The play of both QBs aside, I think the Giants suffer a lot from a lack of leadership and confidence in the QB position. Not every great quarterback has had a cannon arm or terrific athletic ability, but every one of the greats has been a confident leader on the field. The comparison of intangible factors like that between Rivers and ShEli isn't even close and that's the main reason that Rivers will be a better QB than Manning. Rivers also doesn't throw 3 TD's to the Minnesota Vikings.

[boltaneer]

Eli definitely does not have the fire and intensity to be a leader.

And speaking of leadership, he wouldn't even take the blame after the Giants loss this past week.

[Spider]

Eli .... I just think he is more stable

[yavoon]

Im gna guess eli. but both look like middle of the pack starters from here to eternity.

[yavoon]

It's pretty much a wash on were they are this far. I think Eli has more talent so his future is 'brighter' though not by much. Any way you slice it both are barely top 10 QB's in terms of upside. I see Eli as a career Matt Hassleback. Good but not quite elite. He can probably get to a Superbowl in his career but it will be b/c of surrounding talent. Philip Rivers is a career Testaverde. He'll always be around and he'll always be 'good' just never great and never capable of leading his team to the promised land. Dilfer would be a good comparrison except for *he* won a SB.

thats an enormous insult to matt hasselbeck.

[boltaneer]

http://www.sportspickle.com/features/volume6/2006-1122-manning.html

Eli Manning Not Sure How To Tell The Giants He Was Adopted

After his second consecutive atrocious performance Monday night – just the latest of many awful games in his three-year career – New York Giants quarterback Eli Manning is starting to feel the pressure to perform from both outside and inside the Giants organization. And that pressure has caused him to consider revealing a little-know fact about his past.

“Everyone knows that the Giants drafted me almost exclusively because of my family name,” said Manning. “Most scouts rated both Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger higher than me. And, obviously, for good reason. But three years ago the idea was that I would be great simply because of some sort of quarterback gene or something in my DNA. But, uh, here’s the thing: I don’t have the same DNA as my brother Peyton. Or my adopted father Archie.”

The Giants quarterback says he was adopted at one month of age by the Manning family after Archie Manning saw a story on local New Orleans news about the abandoned ******* son of a one-legged French Quarter prostitute with a lazy eye and a mentally-retarded long haul trucker with a severe case of gout.

“The story really touched me and I wanted to give this sad, pathetic child a home,” said Archie Manning. “Plus, my wife and I thought it would be great if Peyton and Cooper had a younger sister.”

The Mannings soon discovered that little Elisha – “We assumed that was a girl’s name,” says Archie – wasn’t female at all, but instead an oddly-named newborn boy with two little testicles that had yet to descend.

But while it was an open adoption, almost no one outside the Manning family knew that Eli wasn’t born a Manning and the family was happy to keep it that way so their new son wouldn’t be thought of as different.

And as little Eli grew, any doubts that he was a “true” Manning were washed away by his uncanny resemblance to his father and brothers.

“We were amazed – and pleasantly surprised – to see the person Eli grew into,” said Archie. “He had that certain Manning look. I don’t know exactly how to describe it, but I’ve heard people refer to it as ‘inbred.’”

Unfortunately, however, with those Manning looks came Manning expectations.

“I’ve always had trouble meeting the expectations people have for me on the football field,” says Eli. “I just don’t have the same athletic pedigree as Peyton. Heck, I hear my birth father comes from a long line of clubfoots. I’m just lucky I didn’t get that.”

But as beneficial as it was for Eli Manning to conceal the truth about his birth parents during his upbringing, that secret came back to bite him once his pro career began.

“Would we have traded a whole bunch of picks to bring in Eli Manning here as the No. 1 overall pick had we known his mother was a one-legged whore and his father was a mentally slow clubfoot with a myriad of diseases and health problems? No. Of course not,” says Giants general manager Ernie Accorsi. “I was actually very, very high on Ben Roethlisberger and, obviously, Philip Rivers would have been a great pick, too. There was pressure to bring in that Manning name, though. So we did. Now that we’re stuck with him all we can do is hope that nurture won out over nature and he’ll become a great quarterback. Although that’s probably hoping for too much since his adopted father was an atrocious pro quarterback, too.”

[Atwater His Ass]

Personally, I don't think either of them is a good leader. Eli just seems to not care, and Rivers is too childish. I couldn't take Rivers seriously if I was a Charger with his spoiled brat attitude.

Skill wise, I think they are about even. Both have had comparable weapons at one time or another, with the edge to Rivers. I still think the chargers made the right move to get rid of Brees, but only because of his injury (which has turned out to be a non-issue).

Bottom line is that I wouldn't want to build a franchise around either QB, but they are both a little above average as well.

[Xenos]

Philip Rivers
Because even on his worst days, he's still a god compared to Eli. Plus, we got Merriman, who despite the lower sack numbers, is playing the run and pass better this year and thus becoming a more complete player. Then there's Kaeding who is a godsend after we cut Karney and had that turnstile at the kicker position. Finally Oben was quite productive here for us and even though he's no longer a starter, he provides the mentoring and veteran leadership that benefit guys like Marcus McNeill.

[Atwater His Ass]

Everyone already knows SD got the better end of the trade in its entirity. But the difference between Eli and Rivers is marginal at best, which is the point of the thread.

[400HZ]

Everyone already knows SD got the better end of the trade in its entirity. But the difference between Eli and Rivers is marginal at best, which is the point of the thread.

Eli has a career 73.58 QB rating

Rivers has a career 86.72 QB rating

That's a pretty substantial difference.

[Xenos]

Everyone already knows SD got the better end of the trade in its entirity. But the difference between Eli and Rivers is marginal at best, which is the point of the thread.
I guess in a way I was addressing Slap's opening lines with regards to the trade thing. But yeah, the two have both been inconsistent. And unlike my other Chargers posters, I don't hate or even dislike Eli that much because of the deal we got. I see that both have had issues with regard to their play, some of which is not their fault. Like last year, Eli's production dropped because his left tackle and his safety valve receiver Toomer went down. And part of Philip's lower production was a result of guys like Keenan, Parker, and Floyd going down with injuries.

That being said, they have their own onfield problems as well. I can't speak for Eli since I don't really pay attention to the Giants, but Philip still has problems like staring down his primary read too much. His pocket awareness also needs to be better (though it has improved in the last two weeks).

[Xenos]

Eli has a career 73.58 QB rating

Rivers has a career 86.72 QB rating

That's a pretty substantial difference.

That's a bad argument since Eli has played longer than Rivers. What's Cutler's QB rating versus Rivers' right now? I'm assuming it's higher as well.

[-Slap-]

"The question is moot"

I like when people say, "it's a mute point".

I can see where you're going with that, because it makes sense in a way, but don't say it or write it, because it's a clear indication you're unedumacated.

Also, "conversate" is slang at best. Try converse instead. Makes you appear like you have some semblance of upbringing.

[400HZ]

That's a bad argument since Eli has played longer than Rivers. What's Cutler's QB rating versus Rivers' right now? I'm assuming it's higher as well.

89.2

[Beantown Bronco]

Eli has a career 73.58 QB rating

Rivers has a career 86.72 QB rating

That's a pretty substantial difference.

Yeah, cause the QB rating is the be-all, end-all of grading QB performance. Both those numbers are far and away better than Joe Namath's career QB rating. Would you take either of them over him when he was their age?

[Kaylore]

I'd take Rivers. At least he can go on a hot streak. Manning goes on streaks to elevate his game from crappy to mediocre. Weeeeeee.

[Atwater His Ass]

I guess in a way I was addressing Slap's opening lines with regards to the trade thing. But yeah, the two have both been inconsistent. And unlike my other Chargers posters, I don't hate or even dislike Eli that much because of the deal we got. I see that both have had issues with regard to their play, some of which is not their fault. Like last year, Eli's production dropped because his left tackle and his safety valve receiver Toomer went down. And part of Philip's lower production was a result of guys like Keenan, Parker, and Floyd going down with injuries.

That being said, they have their own onfield problems as well. I can't speak for Eli since I don't really pay attention to the Giants, but Philip still has problems like staring down his primary read too much. His pocket awareness also needs to be better (though it has improved in the last two weeks).

I'd agree with that.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I will take Eli.

Rivers would melt under the scrutiny of the NY media even worse than Eli.

[-Slap-]

Yeah, cause the QB rating is the be-all, end-all of grading QB performance. Both those numbers are far and away better than Joe Namath's career QB rating. Would you take either of them over him when he was their age?

According to Sal Pal, Namath was a stiff.

I apologize in advance for linking what is quite probably the worst article ever posted here.

"The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches & Moments in NFL History" (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=3055421)

I swear, I might buy this piece of crap book just to laugh myself silly. No doubt Namath became overrated after the knee surgeries and late nights caught up with him, but to call him the most overrated QB in the history of the League is just laughable. Ever heard of Troy Aikman or Terry Bradshaw?

[-Slap-]

I will take Eli.

Rivers would melt under the scrutiny of the NY media even worse than Eli.

Without question. The New York media would delight in torturing that kid. Eli pisses them off because it's so hard to get a rise out of him.

[rbackfactory80]

I will give it to Eli, he can take a beating on and off the field. Rivers is just a weak armed front runner. Funny thing if you look at both their best games they are probably against Denver.

[broncogary]

http://www.sportspickle.com/features/volume6/2006-1122-manning.html

Eli Manning Not Sure How To Tell The Giants He Was Adopted

...The Giants quarterback says he was adopted at one month of age by the Manning family after Archie Manning saw a story on local New Orleans news about the abandoned ******* son of a one-legged French Quarter prostitute with a lazy eye and a mentally-retarded long haul trucker with a severe case of gout.
....”

Hey, doesn't Spider suffer from gout? :rofl:

[Broncoman13]

I guess I said Kelly becasue he did not get the Trophy. He didn't quite get over the hump. Just couldn't quite get the brass ring. Just fell short. Looked good, but lost the fashion show. Weighed in, but was a few pounds short. He missed the bullseye by a smidgeon.

From that standpoint, Just not quiite the true champion. Always the bridesmaid. Never got the big bite of the pie. Just fell a brick short of a full house. An inch short of a full foot.

Alas! There will be no Lombardi in Sandy Eggo with Rivers, although he may tease like Gypsy Rose Lee. He will likely be just good enough to be close, but he wiill smoke no cigar.....

Brees II......

Is that a bit better?

:D much, but even Brees II is putting him in better company than he belongs. Seriously, think Trent Dilfer w/out a SB Defense around him.

[Broncoman13]

The play of both QBs aside, I think the Giants suffer a lot from a lack of leadership and confidence in the QB position. Not every great quarterback has had a cannon arm or terrific athletic ability, but every one of the greats has been a confident leader on the field. The comparison of intangible factors like that between Rivers and ShEli isn't even close and that's the main reason that Rivers will be a better QB than Manning. Rivers also doesn't throw 3 TD's to the Minnesota Vikings.

Kind of hard for Rivers to throw three INT's at all when AD is racking up 300 yards rushing!!!

[Broncoman13]

Eli has a career 73.58 QB rating

Rivers has a career 86.72 QB rating

That's a pretty substantial difference.


Rivers has 37 career TD passes

Eli has 70

Rivers has just under 6000 yards passing for his career

Eli has over 10,000

Rivers has 20 career wins

Eli has 28 career wins

You can manipulate stats both ways homer.

[Bronco LB 59]

According to Sal Pal, Namath was a stiff.

I apologize in advance for linking what is quite probably the worst article ever posted here.

"The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches & Moments in NFL History" (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=3055421)

I swear, I might buy this piece of crap book just to laugh myself silly. No doubt Namath became overrated after the knee surgeries and late nights caught up with him, but to call him the most overrated QB in the history of the League is just laughable. Ever heard of Troy Aikman or Terry Bradshaw?


I flipped through it at the bookstore the other day. It's a piece of crap. He lists Mike Vrabel among his five most underrated tight ends of all-time. Adam Vinatieri beating the Raiders with the overtime FG is his most underrated moment in NFL history. He did give publicity to Lionel Taylor who is listed among his top five underrated WRs ever.

[-Slap-]

I flipped through it at the bookstore the other day. It's a piece of crap. He lists Mike Vrabel among his five most underrated tight ends of all-time. Adam Vinatieri beating the Raiders with the overtime FG is his most underrated moment in NFL history. He did give publicity to Lionel Taylor who is listed among his top five underrated WRs ever.

Are you kidding me about Vrabel?

What a colossal douchebag. Obviously, he's just trying to push buttons.

[Broncoman13]

I like when people say, "it's a mute point".

I can see where you're going with that, because it makes sense in a way, but don't say it or write it, because it's a clear indication you're unedumacated.

Also, "conversate" is slang at best. Try converse instead. Makes you appear like you have some semblance of upbringing.

Actually a lot of people will say "mute point" as a play on words. A co-worker of mine and I often will catch people using "mute" in place of "moot"... we're then left wondering if those people are brilliant or just uneducated. Funny topic. I'll see if I can find the stuff we dug up on Moot vs Mute and PM it to you. You're probably not interested but it does leave one wondering whenever they hear somebody the feel is smart use the term "mute point". One of my team members for Aerospace Corp. is literally a Rocket Scientist and I've heard him use "mute point" in coversations. I guarantee he is no dummy!

[richpjr]

Rivers has 37 career TD passes

Eli has 70

Rivers has just under 6000 yards passing for his career

Eli has over 10,000

Rivers has 20 career wins

Eli has 28 career wins

You can manipulate stats both ways homer.

Okay, throwing totals up makes no sense because Eli has started 52 games in has career and Rivers has started 27.

How about this stat: In his career, Philip Rivers has 20 touchdown passes versus no interceptions in the red zone.

[-Slap-]

That's a nice stat. How many of those went to Gates?

[Kaylore]

Actually a lot of people will say "mute point" as a play on words. A co-worker of mine and I often will catch people using "mute" in place of "moot"... we're then left wondering if those people are brilliant or just uneducated. Funny topic. I'll see if I can find the stuff we dug up on Moot vs Mute and PM it to you. You're probably not interested but it does leave one wondering whenever they hear somebody the feel is smart use the term "mute point". One of my team members for Aerospace Corp. is literally a Rocket Scientist and I've heard him use "mute point" in coversations. I guarantee he is no dummy!

I call shenanigans! They're covering up their ignorance by playing the "I'm really just super duper clever!" card. It sounds stupid to say "mute point" same goes for "mood point" whatever that's supposed to mean.

[400HZ]

Rivers has 37 career TD passes

Eli has 70

Rivers has just under 6000 yards passing for his career

Eli has over 10,000

Rivers has 20 career wins

Eli has 28 career wins



Rivers has 27 carrer starts

Eli has 52 career starts

What sort of logic are you trying to use here? Rivers sucks because he can't match Manning's yardage and TD's in half the playing time?

[PatsWin2002]

I said Rivers. From personal memory it seems to me that Eli's lows are lower than Rivers'. Plus, sometimes it seems like Eli is going through the motions as some kind of birthright rather than really wanting to be there.

Interesting poll nonetheless.....split about 53/47 right now in favor of Eli.

[wabbit]

Doesn't Rivers have a side-armed delivery...or a tendency?? I remember a side-armed fellow who played for the Broncos...briefly...who held nearly every college record imaginable; Steve Ramsey.

Terrific back-up for Charley Johnson, but when he finally started, teams had a book on the low delivery and started swatting down everything he would put up.

Never could correct that. I think the same might happen with Rivers...although the coaching is probably much more technical and improved.

Still, Eli Manning seems to be someone with a higher ceiling.

[Broncoman13]

Rivers has 27 carrer starts

Eli has 52 career starts

What sort of logic are you trying to use here? Rivers sucks because he can't match Manning's yardage and TD's in half the playing time?

And you don't think that Philip sitting for 2 seasons to learn under Brees has something to do with him having a higher career passer rating.

You don't think that Eli's passer rating could be effected by starting early on and learning in the fire, sort of speak.

[400HZ]

You don't think that Eli's passer rating could be effected by starting early on and learning in the fire, sort of speak.

If his rating had started out low and then increased you might have a point. Of course, you didn't list passer rating, you listed yardage, touchdowns, and victories like they should be a comparable stat between QB's with 27 and 52 starts.

[Xenos]

Doesn't Rivers have a side-armed delivery...or a tendency?? I remember a side-armed fellow who played for the Broncos...briefly...who held nearly every college record imaginable; Steve Ramsey.

Terrific back-up for Charley Johnson, but when he finally started, teams had a book on the low delivery and started swatting down everything he would put up.
Never could correct that. I think the same might happen with Rivers...although the coaching is probably much more technical and improved.

Still, Eli Manning seems to be someone with a higher ceiling.
Yes he does deliver it side arm. And his batted down passes actually haven't occurred that often even after one and half seasons. Probably because he's taller and because he usually throws when passing lanes are open like how Brees would do it.
The perfect delivery is Mannings right now because from what I hear he's able to throw it overhead without wasting a lot of motion.

[watermock]

Umedjecatyed mooroons. Slap has a point.

[summerdenver]

I think both Rivers and Eli are good young quarterbacks and have proven that they can win big games by bringing their teams back.

Statistics apart, IMO Eli will always have lower completion percentage than Rivers and hence lower passer rating because he throws more deeper passes. To me, picking between them will come down to their respective faults. I think biggest problem for Rivers is his bad mechanics + mediocre/good arm. When he doesn't have time to set his feet (i.e. Playing teams other broncos) his throws become floating ducks. He also seems to be pressing this year and suffering from Norvell effect. Whereas Eli's problem is that he is not very accurate. Rivers's problems are easily fixable (probably by simply changing the title og Norv to OC from HC) and hence i would take him over Eli.


seems to be pressing this year

I would take Rivers becuase his faults are fixable